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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: James Perrett]
      #421576 - 15/02/07 02:07 PM
Quote James Perrett:

If you can break out of the Cubase mindset you'll find plenty of other usable software around but, if you can't manage to break out then you are doomed to always be stuck with Steinberg.





I am finding it not as easy as I thought I would!!! I have spent a couple of hours behind the driver's seat of the Samplitude machine, and although I am able to do everything that I need to do (so far), it is a struggle learning the new paradigm. I am an old fart however, and have been using Cubase since the dinasaur days (maybe before).

I can see that Samp is a great program, and given some time, I will be able to fly around in it just like I do now with Cubase. There are some things that seem much faster and more intuitive, and others where I preferred the Cubase way of working. That is only natural.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Loudbox
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421580 - 15/02/07 02:13 PM
There seems to be a lot of people switching purely to spite Steinberg and not because they want a better DAW. It appears that Cubase offers everything they need and they are having problems changing because the others are not meeting their requirements. I'm not saying that we shouldnt switch but at the same time the music and work flow shouldnt purely in order to get our own back at Steinberg.


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Glenn Bucci
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421585 - 15/02/07 02:23 PM
Quote Loudbox:

There seems to be a lot of people switching purely to spite Steinberg and not because they want a better DAW. It appears that Cubase offers everything they need and they are having problems changing because the others are not meeting their requirements. I'm not saying that we shouldnt switch but at the same time the music and work flow shouldnt purely in order to get our own back at Steinberg.




I did not switch to spite Steinberg but because,

1. I do not like the new work flow that Cubase 4 has.
2. The screens are too dark.
3. They did not keep their promise in supporting 64 bit with Cubase. This is one reason why I upgraded from Cubase SX2. Going to Cubase 3 cost me money as it was not a free upgrade.
4. Much better plug ins with Samplitude
5. You can see more information on your screens without opening up new screens which helps the work flow.
6. Samplitude customer service is soo much better.

There are other reasons, but those are the main ones.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


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tex
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421595 - 15/02/07 02:32 PM
Quote Loudbox:

There seems to be a lot of people switching purely to spite Steinberg and not because they want a better DAW. It appears that Cubase offers everything they need and they are having problems changing because the others are not meeting their requirements. I'm not saying that we shouldnt switch but at the same time the music and work flow shouldnt purely in order to get our own back at Steinberg.




Spite or not. Doesn't matter. Steinberg at the moment are an extremely dodgy commodity & uncommunicative company. Like any other shop or company that has no regard for it's customers you do tend to look for better places to do business. When it works Cubase is the best for a lot of users but it hasn't been working in a lot of key areas for too many and faults have not only been ignored they have dropped the program they promised to fix without notice. That is a bit like walking into your local shop and seeing dusty shelves with a couple of nondescript tins on show and the owner saying they don't make groceries any more... You just know the shop is going to shut. Soon.
It's not so much spite as security. Reaper looks very good. They listen, they polish it up, they communicate. You can plainly see work being done and done well.
Who would you rather deal with, the grumpy twt with the dark dusty shop who never responds to his customers or the guy next door who asks cheerfully "How can I please you today, sir?" It's obvious to me.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


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Loudbox
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421601 - 15/02/07 02:41 PM
I absolutely agree with both previous comments and its Steinberg's behavior over the years (and especially recently) that's lead me to seriously thinking about switching. Its just unfortunate that Steinberg are currently the only company offering a DAW that I can see myself working comfortably in and suits my workflow. I'm sure this is mainly down to the fact that I've used Cubase (and Pro24 prior to that) for the past 15 years. However, this is still an important factor in my decision process.


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EKeys
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421612 - 15/02/07 03:16 PM
Several questions and observations:

1. Do you think Steinberg is surprised at how apparently wide spread the reaction to their decisions would be?

2. Do you think there is a chance they would back paddle and say something like, "after rethinking the situation we have decided to go back and fix this or change that..."

3. Is samplitude more popular in the EU than in the usa? I called a big shop (in the usa) and when I mentioned samplitude the software guy paused and put me on hold to find out about the product. He never came back on the phone. This shop has a reputation of being very knowledgeable.

4. If you chose to go with samplitude, what made you chose that over sonar, with sonar being so well developed and tested?


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S G H Houbart



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Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421613 - 15/02/07 03:16 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

I am finding it not as easy as I thought I would!!! I have spent a couple of hours behind the driver's seat of the Samplitude machine, and although I am able to do everything that I need to do (so far), it is a struggle learning the new paradigm.




The thing that worked for me when moving from SX1 to Sam 7 was the realisation that the mixer works like a mixer. I started out on 8 track too long ago, and the mindset you use with Sam is much more like the mindset you use with an oldtime physical mixer.

The later versions may be different, but the kind of thing I’m thinking of is like in Cubase if you want to automate a say a reverb level, you dig around in the track looking for the reverb send control’s automation hook and control that. It looks like Sam can’t do that because you don’t have a hook into a send level, but what you do is what you would do with a console, you send to a submix and automate that.

Once that change in paradigm clicked, I was away with Samplitude. You have to think more in the way a physical desk works, not in the way Cubase works. There’s such depth in Samplitude, after spending so long in the shallows, you need to have the balls to swim deeper.


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421617 - 15/02/07 03:22 PM
Loudbox, I understand your concerns, believe me.

Just like anything, it takes time to learn something new, especially when it is something like a DAW that is central to the way you work.

For me, it was time.

I still have SX3 installed on my system, and will continue to use it for "real" stuff until I learn and feel comfortable with Samplitude.

When I first tried Samp, I will admit that I hated it. But I persevered, and now the light bulb is starting to go on. It really is a great program, just "different".

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Loudbox
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421619 - 15/02/07 03:27 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Loudbox, I understand your concerns, believe me.

Just like anything, it takes time to learn something new, especially when it is something like a DAW that is central to the way you work.

For me, it was time.

I still have SX3 installed on my system, and will continue to use it for "real" stuff until I learn and feel comfortable with Samplitude.

When I first tried Samp, I will admit that I hated it. But I persevered, and now the light bulb is starting to go on. It really is a great program, just "different".




Cheers for the advice. Think I will just do the same and see what happens. Samp certainly seems to be the prefered choice around here.

Doublehelix, are you still working with the web trial version?


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: EKeys]
      #421622 - 15/02/07 03:35 PM
Quote E-Keys:

Several questions and observations:

1. Do you think Steinberg is surprised at how apparently wide spread the reaction to their decisions would be?





No, I honestly don't think they are concerned one bit. They are so cocky, and think that they have the world wrapped up in the little pocket. They have so many customers, they are acting like "good riddance to the whiners".

Too many folks are scared to change, or as has been mentioned, there are not a lot of choices in the PC world, so they feel that they have a lock.

This is one of the things that I hate about Steinberg. They feel that they can treat you any way they want because "you'l never leave." Once I realized that, I was OUTTA THERE!.



Quote E-Keys:

2. Do you think there is a chance they would back paddle and say something like, "after rethinking the situation we have decided to go back and fix this or change that..."





Not in a million years. Not in two-million years. That would be paramount to admitting a mistake, and Steinberg *never* makes mistakes. Never.


Quote E-Keys:

3. Is samplitude more popular in the EU than in the usa? I called a big shop (in the usa) and when I mentioned samplitude the software guy paused and put me on hold to find out about the product. He never came back on the phone. This shop has a reputation of being very knowledgeable.





I can't speak for the EU, but Samp is certainly not as well known as Cubase, Logic, PT or Sonar. There are some shops that sell it, but it is best to order from the US distributor, Synthax. Right now, the crossgrade to Samp from Cubase is only US$399 (normally it is $599 to crossgrade, and $999 for the full program).

Also, Samplitude's big brother, Sequoia is *huge* in mastering circles.

Samplitude went through a few years in a sort of limbo state when it was owned by Sek'd, but was eventually bought by Magix who have invested heavily in the product, and it is now going quite strong.



Quote E-Keys:

4. If you chose to go with samplitude, what made you chose that over sonar, with sonar being so well developed and tested?





I just don't get on with Sonar for some reason. Everybody has their reasons. I always kind of felt that it was more of a consumer bit of software. I know this is not true, and I have already admitted elsewhere that I was being biased and prejudiced. Sonar just feels like a toy to me for some reason. Samplitude takes some getting used to, but it really feels professional to me.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421624 - 15/02/07 03:37 PM
Quote Loudbox:

Doublehelix, are you still working with the web trial version?




Yeah, I am, but the REAL full version is due on my doorstep today! I just checked the UPS tracking number, and there was a delay due to bad weather, but it still looks like it is on track for delivery. If for some reason the bad weather delays it, I expect it to be here tomorrow at the latest which means I have all weekend to play!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Loudbox
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421634 - 15/02/07 03:57 PM
Quote :

oublehelix
Yeah, I am, but the REAL full version is due on my doorstep today! I just checked the UPS tracking number, and there was a delay due to bad weather, but it still looks like it is on track for delivery. If for some reason the bad weather delays it, I expect it to be here tomorrow at the latest which means I have all weekend to play!




Cool. I will expect a full report soon! Is there much difference between the trial and full version? Did you go for the cross grade option?


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421642 - 15/02/07 04:12 PM
Quote Loudbox:

Cool. I will expect a full report soon! Is there much difference between the trial and full version? Did you go for the cross grade option?




Hehe... I will do my best!

The trial version is quite limited, but it allows you get a very good feel for what the real program is like.

In the demo version:
-You can only record one track at a time
-The TOTAL recorded time is limited to one minute
-Projects are limited to 3 mins max
-You cannot save anything
-Not all of the plugins are included
-The plugs that are included are feature-limited
-The full version has had an upgrade which adds features and bug fixes
-All of the cool skins are not included

Several other things, I am sure, but it really does give you a good feel for the program.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421649 - 15/02/07 04:18 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot. I do go for the crossgrade option.

What a great deal! Here in the States, it was only US$399 (normally crossgrades are $599 with the full version at $999).

It was hard to pass up the deal. Supposedly going on until the end of February.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Glenn Bucci
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421706 - 15/02/07 05:48 PM
Doublehelix and I have been on Cubase since 5.1 We both had a hard time leaving Cubase. As soon as I read the SOS review of Cubase 4 I have been thinking about leaving. And only after playing with the demo for several hours, and checking out their forums, and speaking to them did I buy it. But I still have Cubase SX3 and I will continue to use it with my clients until I get to know Samplitude a lot better. This afternoon, I am working on my first song in Samplitude and I am going to work at 88. I will let you guys know how it goes.


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dima
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421746 - 15/02/07 07:20 PM
Hi Doublehelix!

If the menus could be made less verbal I think I'd warm up to Samplitude a bit more. Is there an example skin that changes the menus?


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #421765 - 15/02/07 08:16 PM
Quote dima:

Hi Doublehelix!

If the menus could be made less verbal I think I'd warm up to Samplitude a bit more. Is there an example skin that changes the menus?





Hey Dima:


Ya know, I am not sure if the skins change the menus or not since I am still on the demo, and skins are not included with the demo.

As I said earlier however, it is really easy to modify the menus manually and hide/show different items in the list.

As I am starting to see with Samp, pretty much everything is customizable, which is a good thing!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: EKeys]
      #421815 - 15/02/07 11:17 PM
Quote E-Keys:

Several questions and observations:

1. Do you think Steinberg is surprised at how apparently wide spread the reaction to their decisions would be?




I don’t think the reaction to DX was expected. I think the afterburn to dumping SX3 and MIDEX was quite calculated. It seems to me to be a deliberate decision to take the pain in one big hit, such that in a few months, maybe few people remember it.

If you’re going to piss down your leg, get it all out.

Quote E-Keys:

2. Do you think there is a chance they would back paddle and say something like, "after rethinking the situation we have decided to go back and fix this or change that..."




There has to be some element of a chance to that effect, but I don’t think so realistically. The damage done so far must be baptised away by somebody senior getting to prove they were right all along. I think the situation has passed the catastrophe threshold to the extent that management’s narrative of the events is permanently behind the wave crest of real damage they are doing to themselves. It’s crack addiction in the cash flow timeline – do it to them harder, stronger and more ruthlessly. By the time they work it out it’ll be too late.

Maybe the big waited for update will have a price tag. Something like that. Something robustly macho in market to bring the euro’s through the door in the short term, but which makes the situation very much worse in the long run. Whoever it is making these choices, they won’t stop till they are made to.

Quote E-Keys:

3. Is samplitude more popular in the EU than in the usa? I called a big shop (in the usa) and when I mentioned samplitude the software guy paused and put me on hold to find out about the product. He never came back on the phone. This shop has a reputation of being very knowledgeable.

4. If you chose to go with samplitude, what made you chose that over sonar, with sonar being so well developed and tested?




Try the demos. At the end of the day only you can choose.


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421831 - 16/02/07 12:00 AM
E-Keys: I notice today that Sweetwater carries Samplitude, as does Musician's Friend, as does JRR Shop and B&H for starters.

It seems to be everywhere I looked.

Good luck!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #422057 - 16/02/07 02:01 PM
Quote Doublehelix:


Yeah, I am, but the REAL full version is due on my doorstep today! I just checked the UPS tracking number, and there was a delay due to bad weather, but it still looks like it is on track for delivery. If for some reason the bad weather delays it, I expect it to be here tomorrow at the latest which means I have all weekend to play!





Well, dang! My package didn't show up yesterday, and when I checked the UPS tracking number this morning, they are saying that it got delayed due to the bad weather and heavy snow. Whatever.

Oh well, it is now scheduled for delivery today. Hopefully, it will show up as promised.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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tex
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Joined: 01/04/03
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #422147 - 16/02/07 05:24 PM
Now Nuendo users are getting the thread moving/locking treatment as well: http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=14002

What with hardly a peep out of Steinberg for a month & mods reduced to threadlocking duties and "special offers" on Cubase from Arbiter it looks more and more like a locked shop to this customer at least. They also seem to have stopped advertising...

Big changes are going on but they've pulled the curtains over so we can't see if the lights are on or not.

I'll keep an eye out see what your reaction to Samplitude is.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


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dima
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #422515 - 17/02/07 06:54 PM
Quote tex:


What with hardly a peep out of Steinberg for a month & mods reduced to threadlocking duties and "special offers" on Cubase from Arbiter it looks more and more like a locked shop to this customer at least. They also seem to have stopped advertising...




If Steinberg has really stopped advertizing that means that they're out of advert money. If they're out of advert money, they're in DEEP trouble!

Check out this thread on the Cakewalk forum:

Dumping CUBASE 4 + SX3 and migrating to SONAR 6! A Story...
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=958708


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Lodious
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #422816 - 18/02/07 08:21 PM
The Cubase 4 adverts in SOS looked like they were done by a student doing work experience. Not what you'd expect for a flagship release.

--------------------
I like people, it's my friends I can't stand - Larry David.
http://www.myspace.com/lodious


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white warrior



Joined: 09/07/05
Posts: 234
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #422865 - 18/02/07 10:58 PM
Quote dima:

Quote tex:


What with hardly a peep out of Steinberg for a month & mods reduced to threadlocking duties and "special offers" on Cubase from Arbiter it looks more and more like a locked shop to this customer at least. They also seem to have stopped advertising...




If Steinberg has really stopped advertizing that means that they're out of advert money. If they're out of advert money, they're in DEEP trouble!

Check out this thread on the Cakewalk forum:

Dumping CUBASE 4 + SX3 and migrating to SONAR 6! A Story...
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=958708




oh struth! am i the only one who just stares at sonars interface-mouth agape and drooling slightly!! cannot get on with it,thats why i will only choose cubase,simple yet effective!!

what you lot are forgetting is that cubase and stienberg are now owned by yamaha,so maybe its them we should have a throttling session with! im sure you lot are going to the sounds expo in march???........and steinberg will be there!!!!!! he wont make it out olympia alive LOL!

--------------------
Don't Laugh at my Cheese Sandwhich


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Keef



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: SVEA]
      #422875 - 18/02/07 11:17 PM
Just finished another project in Samplitude. The Score is so much easier to work with compared to Cubase. It does not have all the Score features that Cubase has, but I mostly play the parts on a keyboard and print them out for the bass player, or keyboard player. For that purpose it works great.

I will never record another project with my Cubase SX3. Sampltiude just works faster, has better plug ins, and gives you more info on the screens. (This means you have a better work flow.) Version 9.1 is coming out in the next 30 days which will fix some bugs, and improve the program once again. I can't record my BFD's at 96 right now, but this will be fixed with the update. Every time I have questions, I get answers from them directly within a day. I like that too. It's something I am not used to from Steinberg.


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tex
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Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #422899 - 19/02/07 12:26 AM
Quote:

what you lot are forgetting is that cubase and stienberg are now owned by yamaha,so maybe its them we should have a throttling session with! im sure you lot are going to the sounds expo in march???........and steinberg will be there!!!!!! he wont make it out olympia alive LOL!




If they do the Expo and if they haven't got anything new all you'll see is a dusty desk and some large bits of tumbleweed.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


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Stephen Parker



Joined: 28/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423023 - 19/02/07 10:50 AM
Morning all,

I've been trying to follow this thread for the last week or so, but had forgotten my log in...

A quick couple of points - as far as I know, we've still been advertising Steinberg over the last few months, at least I hope so or i'll be looking again at those invoices!

(I'll pass on the comments about the ads to the guys that supplied them)

The special offers we're running at the moment are mainly for the Wavelab Crossgrades - Studio came out a few months ago, but needed a little help to get noticed - as you know Audio editors are not the most exciting things out there.

We'll be at Sounds Expo and would be more than happy to shoot the breeze with Cubase users - I think there's been some bad press over the last couple of months (that may or may not be justified) and I'll be happy to talk at the show - just ask for me there.

Cheers

Stephen Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd


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hifistud2



Joined: 12/02/06
Posts: 795
Loc: Near Sunderland, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Stephen Parker]
      #423034 - 19/02/07 11:19 AM
Quote Stephen Parker:

Morning all,

I've been trying to follow this thread for the last week or so, but had forgotten my log in...

A quick couple of points - as far as I know, we've still been advertising Steinberg over the last few months, at least I hope so or i'll be looking again at those invoices!

(I'll pass on the comments about the ads to the guys that supplied them)

The special offers we're running at the moment are mainly for the Wavelab Crossgrades - Studio came out a few months ago, but needed a little help to get noticed - as you know Audio editors are not the most exciting things out there.

We'll be at Sounds Expo and would be more than happy to shoot the breeze with Cubase users - I think there's been some bad press over the last couple of months (that may or may not be justified) and I'll be happy to talk at the show - just ask for me there.

Cheers

Stephen Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd




Thing is, Steve, you're going to end up taking all the flak for what the SB boiiz have been doing - dropping DX in CB4, not fulfilling their promised final update for SX3, the madness that is the dongle and their completely uncommunicative stance.

In the UK, it's as well for SB that the head honcho for A level Music Tech is so turned on to Cubase. He evangelises it, but I think even he must be becoming a tad wissed off with the SB attitude. I certainly am - and it would appear that many others are voting with their wallets.

It's a very worrying time for Steinberg - I would not like to be moored to their barge at the moment.

--------------------
[url=http://www.facebook.com/pages/hifi-studios/117322741632389[/url]


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marsnic
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 839
Loc: Southborough, Kent UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #423055 - 19/02/07 12:06 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Oh yeah, I forgot. I do go for the crossgrade option.

What a great deal! Here in the States, it was only US$399 (normally crossgrades are $599 with the full version at $999).

It was hard to pass up the deal. Supposedly going on until the end of February.




Where did you find this deal and do you know if there is something similar in Europe?

Thanks

Darren


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Stephen Parker



Joined: 28/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423067 - 19/02/07 12:22 PM
Hi - in short, that's what we're here for.

Whilst I agree that communication could certainly have been better on the DX issue, my opinion is that if the announcement was handled a little better, it wouldn't have been so much of an issue.

The cancelled update for SX3 is also unfortunate as it was promised and there's nothing that annoys more than an unfulfilled promise.

All the best,

Stephen Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd


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Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: marsnic]
      #423107 - 19/02/07 01:24 PM
Quote marsnic:



Where did you find this deal and do you know if there is something similar in Europe?

Thanks

Darren




I emailed Magix late last night and got a reply back early this morning from the UK distributer. They are doing the same deal here.

• Samplitude Professional for GBP300.00 inc VAT
• Samplitude Classic for GBP150.00 inc VAT
• Samplitude Master for GBP150.00 inc VAT


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10652
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: hifistud2]
      #423115 - 19/02/07 01:39 PM
Quote hifistud2:


In the UK, it's as well for SB that the head honcho for A level Music Tech is so turned on to Cubase.




This is why Steinberg are still in business - while music teachers are still encouraged to use Cubase they will still keep turning out students (maybe like white warrior) who think that Cubase is great and who don't worry about the competition. It doesn't matter how many established musicians are ditching Cubase - there is still a whole new class of purchasers being brainwashed every year.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423137 - 19/02/07 02:09 PM
There was an interesting post on Cubase.net yesterday where the author was saying that Steinberg is not really worried about the "rioting masses" since we are in the minority.

He stated that Steinberg is really focusing on the weekend bedroom punters who don't really get into all the functions of the software, and couldn't tell a compressor from a flanger. These folks don't feel the same pain that the more experienced users do since they only use a very small portion of the features, and don't stress the system at all. They are perfectly happy with CB4, and even if they run into a problem, they don't know it well enough to realize that it was the software's problem and not theirs.

This is the majority of the Cubase target audience according to this guy's speculation.

In order to address this market, they needed to added the more upscale plugins, even if those folks couldn't really tell the difference, it is all about marketing and reputation. These folks probably have very few 3rd party plugins, and need to be able to use the ones that are included.

He went on to say that this was a MUCH larger market than those of us that take things a bit more seriously and frequent the music forums on a daily basis. In fact, they don't even understand what a DX plugin is, much less care that support for them is missing!

These are also the folks, according to the author, that will get bored with the product in a few months to a year, and move onto some other project.

I am not sure that I agree with all of this, but some of it certainly rings true.

Think about this:

It has been 5 months since they had an upgrade to CB4. In fact, there has not been an upgrade since it was released. This is a travesty!!!

There are some faithful Cubasers on their forum that are defending this by saying that Steinberg *must* be planning on releasing a whole bunch of new goodies to the release in addition to all the bug fixes, like 64-bit, side-chaining, group drag-and-drop, more flexible routing, etc.

My response to that is: "THEY HAD BETTER NOT!!!"

They have a program that is severely broken for a lot of folks, and rather than fix the bugs to satisfy their customer base, they are focusing on new features?

I am hoping for Steinberg's sake that this is not the case, although it is hard to understand why it takes 5 months to release a maintenance update unless they were adding something new.

True customer service (in my mind) would be to get something out as soon as possible to fix the major issues that the current user base have been screaming about since the CB4 release, while continuing to work on new features for a future release.

How in good conscience can you leave such a large and vocal customer base hanging like that???

It baffles the mind!

Unless... you buy into the theory proposed by the author of the thread that I paraphrased earlier in this thread, that us "power users" don't matter in the bigger scheme of things, and Steinberg's goal is to please the larger bedroom crowd, and they don't really care if they lose us as customers.

Bad decision if that is what they are thinking.

My response to this guy was that maybe *this* is why they have Nuendo for the "pros". The feature difference for most of us is not enough to justify the difference in price unless you are doing post production, and if the audio engine is the same, it makes sense to stick with Cubase, right? Well, maybe not. The Nuendo product line is considered more up-scale, and is targeted at a different crowd. They won't have Nuendo 4 until 3rd or 4th quarter of this year, and by then, the Cubase "beta testers" will have found most of the show-stopping bugs, and they will be addressed before the N4 release.

So now, to add insult to injury, we are doing all of Steinberg's beta testing... for FREE!!!

It just couldn't get any worse.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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marsnic
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 839
Loc: Southborough, Kent UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #423178 - 19/02/07 03:06 PM
Quote Loudbox:

Quote marsnic:



Where did you find this deal and do you know if there is something similar in Europe?

Thanks

Darren




I emailed Magix late last night and got a reply back early this morning from the UK distributer. They are doing the same deal here.

• Samplitude Professional for GBP300.00 inc VAT
• Samplitude Classic for GBP150.00 inc VAT
• Samplitude Master for GBP150.00 inc VAT




That seems quite a lot more than DH paid. US$399 is just over £200 at present rates. Even taking into account local tax, this seems quite a difference. At £300, I stand to save about £8 if I purchase before the end of the month. Am I missing something?


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Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423185 - 19/02/07 03:13 PM
I know. I'm assuming its due to the weak dollar and strong pound. Or it could be that those of us in the UK are being ripped off once again. I'm not sure if UK residents can buy from a US distributer but once the shipping and import duty has been paid then I can't imagine it will work out much cheaper.


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tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423205 - 19/02/07 03:58 PM
Quote:

There was an interesting post on Cubase.net yesterday where the author was saying that Steinberg is not really worried about the "rioting masses" since we are in the minority.

He stated that Steinberg is really focusing on the weekend bedroom punters who don't really get into all the functions of the software, and couldn't tell a compressor from a flanger. These folks don't feel the same pain that the more experienced users do since they only use a very small portion of the features, and don't stress the system at all. They are perfectly happy with CB4, and even if they run into a problem, they don't know it well enough to realize that it was the software's problem and not theirs.

This is the majority of the Cubase target audience according to this guy's speculation. Etc...




Some time ago on the Cubase net I did propose a poll based on my suggestion that the Cubase complainers didn't matter because a: There were'nt enough of them or b: That Steinberg were in trouble.
There were rather a lot of them. I didn't seem to have the problems they were getting probably because I build my own computers as some Pro's reported bad problems on even very high end SOS advertised superdupercomputers. Even taking into account self inflicted system instability any self respecting company would be at least as informative as to reassure any other worried customers that their product was, in the main, stable and not to listen to the wailing.
Steinberg are great at the design and features stages but rarely seem to release a product that is universally
"finished". Afer 4 years of developement Vista ambushed them so completely they dropped everything they had. It's as though they'd never heard of it before November. I think it's this that has everyone on edge at the moment. In case Steinberg don't know it's called customer uncertainty. If you don't fix it soon with something rather handsome & bug free from the off then some will have spent their 3 yearly "Steinberg money" on a competing product.
I see they've thrown poor Steve Parker to the lions again. I think I'll give him a break. HAND

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


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John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12359
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #423244 - 19/02/07 05:17 PM
Quote tex:

I see they've thrown poor Steve Parker to the lions again. I think I'll give him a break. HAND




I said earlier that it's a shame that Steinberg have got so many people angry, as Arbiter in the UK have always been very helpful.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


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S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: John Willett]
      #423391 - 19/02/07 09:52 PM
Quote John Willett:

Quote tex:

I see they've thrown poor Steve Parker to the lions again. I think I'll give him a break. HAND




I said earlier that it's a shame that Steinberg have got so many people angry, as Arbiter in the UK have always been very helpful.




I'd have more sympathy for Arbiter if they made it amply clear on their web site that DX is no longer supported. Given the infamous reluctance of Steinberg to refund a purchase, widely discussed on Cubase.net, this strikes me as willfully misleading advertising, and says something about the company doing it.


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tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: S G H Houbart]
      #423524 - 20/02/07 05:11 AM
Quote S G H Houbart:

Quote John Willett:

Quote tex:

I see they've thrown poor Steve Parker to the lions again. I think I'll give him a break. HAND




I said earlier that it's a shame that Steinberg have got so many people angry, as Arbiter in the UK have always been very helpful.




I'd have more sympathy for Arbiter if they made it amply clear on their web site that DX is no longer supported. Given the infamous reluctance of Steinberg to refund a purchase, widely discussed on Cubase.net, this strikes me as willfully misleading advertising, and says something about the company doing it.




To be fair I do believe that at the Cubase4 launch that it could be sent back for a refund if the purchaser was not happy (even if it had been opened?!). I do not recall the time limit if there was one and again, to balance, I cannot recall when the DX announcement was made exactly and if it affected anyones choice to return C4 or not.
I may be corrected on this but you're right in essence in that things could be made a lot clearer and more transparent for the customer. There is too much muddy water.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


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S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #423534 - 20/02/07 07:19 AM
Quote tex:


To be fair I do believe that at the Cubase4 launch that it could be sent back for a refund if the purchaser was not happy (even if it had been opened?!).




Good.

Regardless of the refund policy, a purchaser should be told the product does not support DX BEFORE paying for it. That's the essence of the problem with its removal. That Arbiter continues to sell units knowing that the issue is certain to result in refund requests and that people are buying it in ignorance is acting in grossly bad faith. It makes the hole deeper.


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