Main Forums >> Recording Techniques
        Print Thread

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)
Keef



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Steinberg getting Cubase users angry
      #410446 - 23/01/07 02:04 PM
Many on the Cubase forms are complaining about the lack of support for Cubase 3, and there does not appear to be any more updates or fixes.
Many have also complained about the multiple issues with version 4 as well. At this point many state that they are jumping ship to Samplitude who has given them great customer service already. Samplitude has always impressed me as I tried out the demo version. It’s work flow can be similar to Cubase which makes switching over easier than going to Logic…that is if you work on a Mac.
Usually when people start with a DAW program, they like to stick with it because it’s what your used to. However I am thinking about going to Samplitude myself. The latest version and review here at SOS looks very promising. As a PC user, it seems to be one of the best options. One thing that is really nice is the ablility to master music with Samplitude as you can burn CD’s within the program, and it’s POW-R plug in.
I did a SOS search on the topic and found a great response regarding the differences between the two.

Quote:

the most important difference between the two is that Cubase SX works on a traditional 'virtual studio' model, whereby audio lives on tracks, and effects are applied on mixer channels. Samplitude can work this way too, but its Arrange page is designed so that each chunk of recorded audio is treated as an independent Object, with automation and effects settings applicable to individual Objects rather than mixer channels or tracks. Some people find this way of working more to their taste, especially for mastering applications.




What are your thoughts on Steinberg support and Samplitude?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410462 - 23/01/07 02:35 PM
Quote Keef:

Many on the Cubase forms are complaining about the lack of support for Cubase 3, and there does not appear to be any more updates or fixes.
Many have also complained about the multiple issues with version 4 as well. At this point many state that they are jumping ship to Samplitude who has given them great customer service already. Samplitude has always impressed me as I tried out the demo version. It’s work flow can be similar to Cubase which makes switching over easier than going to Logic…that is if you work on a Mac.
Usually when people start with a DAW program, they like to stick with it because it’s what your used to. However I am thinking about going to Samplitude myself. The latest version and review here at SOS looks very promising. As a PC user, it seems to be one of the best options. One thing that is really nice is the ablility to master music with Samplitude as you can burn CD’s within the program, and it’s POW-R plug in.
I did a SOS search on the topic and found a great response regarding the differences between the two.

Quote:

the most important difference between the two is that Cubase SX works on a traditional 'virtual studio' model, whereby audio lives on tracks, and effects are applied on mixer channels. Samplitude can work this way too, but its Arrange page is designed so that each chunk of recorded audio is treated as an independent Object, with automation and effects settings applicable to individual Objects rather than mixer channels or tracks. Some people find this way of working more to their taste, especially for mastering applications.




What are your thoughts on Steinberg support and Samplitude?




I think Steinberg's customer relations were bad (going back years) and are getting worse.

Most recent:

1) They don't disclose that they will no longer support DX from C4 onwards. The main probelem here is, a lot of users dind't know about this until the bought it and tried to load their plugins. It was one of the Cubase.net forum members that brought this to light.
2) Not fulfilling their promises to fix bugs and more importantly, mend BROKEN features in SX3. Features that SX claimed to do on the box.
3) They stopped support of their Midex 8 MIDI hardware, so no 64 bit drivers, leaving a perfectly decent device redundant.

I think it's shocking behaviour, especially when they have the financial and business backing of giants such as Yamaha. I'd love to hear Yamaha's side of the story! They've not said a word... Unless this all comes from Yamaha via Steinberg.

P


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12442
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410467 - 23/01/07 02:44 PM
Samplitude9 is great (upgrade to v9.02 came out yesterday).

I got my copy a couple of weeks ago.

Bonus Until the end of Feb. you can crossgrade to Samplitude9 Pro for only £300

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: John Willett]
      #410472 - 23/01/07 02:53 PM
Quote John Willett:

Samplitude9 is great (upgrade to v9.02 came out yesterday).

I got my copy a couple of weeks ago.

Bonus Until the end of Feb. you can crossgrade to Samplitude9 Pro for only £300




It's a possibility, but I aint got £300 to spend just yet

I'm considering getting a new soundcard in the near future and might go for the Digi 002 as this has PT LE included. Might not be as feature intensive, but the rest of the world seems to get good results with PT.

Cheers,
Peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Matt P
member


Joined: 19/06/04
Posts: 348
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: John Willett]
      #410489 - 23/01/07 03:25 PM
Quote John Willett:

Samplitude9 is great (upgrade to v9.02 came out yesterday).

I got my copy a couple of weeks ago.

Bonus Until the end of Feb. you can crossgrade to Samplitude9 Pro for only £300




John, how do you go about registering for this crossgrade. The likelihood is that I'm just being thick, but I can't find any mention of it on the main Magix site.

Also, I understand from some of your recent posts that you've joined the RME SmugFace brigade - I run one of the 800 cards and was wondering how you'd found the software/hardware combination.

Here's to voting with one's feet


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12442
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Matt P]
      #410492 - 23/01/07 03:37 PM
Quote Matt P:

Quote John Willett:

Samplitude9 is great (upgrade to v9.02 came out yesterday).

I got my copy a couple of weeks ago.

Bonus Until the end of Feb. you can crossgrade to Samplitude9 Pro for only £300




John, how do you go about registering for this crossgrade. The likelihood is that I'm just being thick, but I can't find any mention of it on the main Magix site.



Give DACS a ring - 0191-438-2500 - and they will tell you how to do it.

I think you have to send in the front page of your Owners Manual (or something like that).



Quote Matt P:

Also, I understand from some of your recent posts that you've joined the RME SmugFace brigade - I run one of the 800 cards and was wondering how you'd found the software/hardware combination.




My Fireface 400 has not arrived yet - due this week. But Synthax (excellent company that they are) loaned me one for the weekend as I had loads of editing to do (25-hours over two days).

The 400 worked very well and did what I needed to. But I could not get any digits out of it properly.

Probably settings, but I did not have the time to check and only used the analogue outs.

I had wanted to use the digits into my Grace m902 - it appeared to sync, but I could get no sound. I'll check it through properly when my own one arrives.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Keef



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: John Willett]
      #410494 - 23/01/07 03:40 PM
Some advantages of Samplitude 9 over Cubase

1. More analog sounding compressors and Eq compared to SX 3.
2. Supports 64 bit as SX 3 does not
3. Has a convolution reverb
4. Controlling wave forms appears to be easier and more flexible
5. Can burn CD’s
6. POW-R dithering
7. Supports direct x
8. Appears to be more stable and has less issues than SX 3 and especially Cubase 4.
9. You can see inserts and effects at the same time in mixer screen.
10. Lay out on mixer screen shows more info.
11. Can swap effect order with mouse.
12. Better support
13. They appear not to release updates with as many bugs and issues

Anything I am missing.

Edited by Keef (23/01/07 03:41 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12442
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410500 - 23/01/07 03:47 PM
Quote Keef:

Anything I am missing.




  • Can burn DVDs
  • rock solid and very stable
  • can write CD text, including ISRC codes
  • Can check CD/DVD against the original for burning errors and reports the results




--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
SecretSam
active member


Joined: 29/10/02
Posts: 1567
Loc: Officially, I do not exist.
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410506 - 23/01/07 03:58 PM
'Rock solid and very stable' sounds good to me. Cubase isn't as bad as it was in this respect, but it isn't fantastic either.

--------------------
Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pink Fluid
new member


Joined: 19/09/02
Posts: 519
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410560 - 23/01/07 05:24 PM
I've been looking at Samplitude off and on for the last couple of years and decided to shell out £30 for the Sam V8 SE product. It's great for audio, less so for VSTis mainly as you can't monitor aux send fx whilst playing (inserts ar OK). I also found zipper noise when using my Mackie Control. V9 (as in demo version) is a big step forward if you use soft synths and there are promises of future improvements in VSTi handling in an imminent update. I still do not think it's as good at handling loops though and the object editing can take some getting used to. Also, it doesn't import REX files in case that's your thing. I also wish you could just record the output of VSTis as audio in real time without having to go to internal mix down. Interestingly, the SOS review concentrated on its audio capabilities which is fine but high-end programs need to do a bit more more these days. Having said that, the DACS offer for Cubase users is pretty good and the Classic version (one down from 'Pro') is a steal in terms of what it offers. BTW I run my progs on an Intel Mac Mini (Windows bootcamp) without any problems.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Michael B
active member


Joined: 28/08/03
Posts: 2076
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410564 - 23/01/07 05:34 PM
I decided to stop using crackd software years ago, and bought VST full version and have upgraded as far as SX3. Now I'm fed up, would like to go to SX4 but now the upgrades have jumped in price as well, and I just missed the cutoff for the 50.00 upgrade, but there's no way I'm paying 150.00 after the experience of going to SX3 and shortly after hearing that has become defunct.

I would like to go to Samplitude but £300? cross grade, I could buy half a second hand V-Synth for that almost


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410572 - 23/01/07 05:43 PM
I had a look at Samplitude last week (for obvious reasons) and whilst it is very feature rich, it just doesn't float my boat for some reason. I find the user interface unappealing (picky and personal I know) and generally doesn't seem to flow as nicely as I'd hoped.

Personally, if I were to move from Steinberg to something else, it would probably be (do I hear groans?) Pro Tools - simply as it is an industry standard. I'd keep a version of Cubase for midi arranging and then do all serious work in PT.

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
PrinceXizor
member


Joined: 30/01/04
Posts: 825
Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #410577 - 23/01/07 05:47 PM
Did you get it set up in the mixer mode that appeals more to Cubase users?

Jim

--------------------
My Home Studio Build Thread


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #410580 - 23/01/07 05:53 PM
Quote Dave B:

I had a look at Samplitude last week (for obvious reasons) and whilst it is very feature rich, it just doesn't float my boat for some reason. I find the user interface unappealing (picky and personal I know) and generally doesn't seem to flow as nicely as I'd hoped.

Personally, if I were to move from Steinberg to something else, it would probably be (do I hear groans?) Pro Tools - simply as it is an industry standard. I'd keep a version of Cubase for midi arranging and then do all serious work in PT.




I'm with you 100% on this, although the demo was easy to get into, there was just something that didn't float my boat too and I'm seriously considering PT


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Keef



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410595 - 23/01/07 06:20 PM
Quote Conz:

Quote Dave B:

I had a look at Samplitude last week (for obvious reasons) and whilst it is very feature rich, it just doesn't float my boat for some reason. I find the user interface unappealing (picky and personal I know) and generally doesn't seem to flow as nicely as I'd hoped.

Personally, if I were to move from Steinberg to something else, it would probably be (do I hear groans?) Pro Tools - simply as it is an industry standard. I'd keep a version of Cubase for midi arranging and then do all serious work in PT.




I'm with you 100% on this, although the demo was easy to get into, there was just something that didn't float my boat too and I'm seriously considering PT




What are you looking for is the question. Are you looking for some graphic screen and built in plug ins that knock you out? Or are you more interested in a program that is rock solid, offers lot's of flexiblity, and where you get great support?

Before I jump ship on Cubase, I will give Steinberg a little while to come out with some fixes for Cubase 4. When I get a dual processing computer, I would like my DAW to support 64 bit. If Cubase 4 still has many issues, including being too dark and difficult to read, I will switch to Samplitude. Pro Tools LE is too limiting for me, and the full version is not needed and way too expensive. Not to mention all the plugs ins cost more for it compared to the native versions. We have enough power with dual and quad processors that we don’t need DSP cards anymore.

Edited by Keef (23/01/07 06:26 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
AllyB
active member


Joined: 07/03/04
Posts: 1030
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410605 - 23/01/07 06:35 PM
can i rewire ableton live into samplitude?

What about samplitudes video editing?

--------------------
Producer etc


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410639 - 23/01/07 08:07 PM
Quote Keef:

What are you looking for is the question. Are you looking for some graphic screen and built in plug ins that knock you out? Or are you more interested in a program that is rock solid, offers lot's of flexiblity, and where you get great support?




Not necessarily 'knock me out', but I do have a thing about the aesthetics of software - usually if it is clearly laid out and readable then it easier to use especially for long periods. This is one of Steinberg's strengths imho although I will probably bite the bullet and get a copy of C4 and am dreading the darkness...

However, it's not about a zillion plug-ins - just a handful of useful ones are preferable and there Samplitude did score well - as I have a Liquid Mix and Powercore so I'm sorted for a lot of the basic stuff. Solidity _is_ important, as is flexibility. Support .... I can do without as long as it's there if I really do need it. And sadly that's where Steiny are really lacking - they just seem to be completely indifferent to their customers from where I'm standing.

Pro Tools is a known quantity and it's strengths and failings are well documented. Plus I'd be able to exchange projects with other studios which would be nice for a change. It's not something that I'd leap into blind and I'll probably consider a Mac+Logic as well. Still, plenty of time before that happens...

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #410691 - 23/01/07 10:02 PM
Steinberg are being pretty shocking to their customers. While I think that C4 is pretty stable there are some issues but the real grief over there is the dropping of SX3 DX & Midex support which may be understandable but there was no notice given to customers & the mods are stomping all over posts that dare to complain (Other than mine, to anybody clued in. Yes, I know. I didn't know "mini" was that bad an insult and was not given a chance to aopologise). The paranoia seems to be very large and sulky. I'd wait a bit for C4 as they are developing a 64bit version urgently it seems from their explanation for dropping SX3 but beware the mangement (sic)and the PR representation from one or two of the mod's is shockingly bad at the moment. They've painted themselves into a corner so it's best to let the paint dry a bit first.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.

Edited by tex (23/01/07 10:11 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Keef



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #410777 - 24/01/07 05:00 AM
Well just in case things at Steinberg continue to be messy, I tried out Samplitude 9 demo today. I found it to be very nice and better than Cubase in some ways, and in other ways not. (Guess your not surprised.)

I do like that you have 16 channels on your mixer showing all your inserts, aux, and EQ's on every channel. Cubase still can't do that. I also like on the arrange page on the left, you can see your notes, eq, plug ins and other info all at the same time. Again with Cubase it's only one view item at a time. I was able to get my Waves plug ins to work nicely with it as well. Found you can change a track from mono to stereo with a click of a button. If you make your arrange page a little larger you can see the volume on each channel all at once with Samplitude.

I like the compressor, EQ, chorus, and delay effects better than what is in Cubase SX 3. Though I know they improved them on Cubase 4.

However the mixer looks a little 2 diminsional compared to Cubase. With Cubase you can have 2 mixers on one screen and the arrange page on other screen. Mixer 1 for instance can show audio tracks only (if you choose), while mixer two can show vst, midi, and group channels. You get about 24 channels total compared to the 16 channels plus output channel limit in Samplitude. Didn't see a snap option yet which I like in Cubase or the ability to choose different colors on the fly for your tracks like Cubase.

After going through some growing pains with Samplitude, I will make a decision. However at this point, I am on the fence.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410806 - 24/01/07 09:14 AM
Quote Keef:

What are you looking for is the question. Are you looking for some graphic screen and built in plug ins that knock you out? Or are you more interested in a program that is rock solid, offers lot's of flexiblity, and where you get great support?




I want something that is rock solid, intuative and know is going to be with me for a very long time, with the minimum of fuss.

I've been MIDI programming for 20+ years now and to be honest, most of the feautures that've been added to Cubase over time I rarely or never use. I program simple edits, using note on / off, volume, AT, the usual stuff. What I do with Cubase, from a MIDI point of view, can be done with my old program Music X, so I'm almost certain I will be fine with Pro Tools LE.

I still need to do a lot more homework before I make the switch though. Hopefully in this time too, we will see some progression (either way) with Steinberg.

Cheers,
Peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
marsnic
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 839
Loc: Southborough, Kent UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410825 - 24/01/07 09:53 AM
Quote Conz:



I've been MIDI programming for 20+ years now and to be honest, most of the feautures that've been added to Cubase over time I rarely or never use. I program simple edits, using note on / off, volume, AT, the usual stuff. What I do with Cubase, from a MIDI point of view, can be done with my old program Music X, so I'm almost certain I will be fine with Pro Tools LE.

I still need to do a lot more homework before I make the switch though. Hopefully in this time too, we will see some progression (either way) with Steinberg.

Cheers,
Peter




I wouldn't hold your breath. You might as well make your decision now because in the 20 odd years I've been a Pro24/Cubase user, nothing's changed. From my poor experiences over the years (with Steinberg and most other companies), I no longer expect decent support (hardware or software). If you get it (and it's not in Mumbai), it is a bonus but it seems a rarity now. I know that is not right, but that is the reality of the world today from my experience. What I do look for however is a good user community and to that end, I now never contact Steinberg support but go straight to the forums. I've personally never had a problem solving a problem this way. Even companies with good technical support (Soundscape being the best I've come across), I still find myself more often than not using the user forums.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410833 - 24/01/07 10:04 AM
Give the free 30 day trial of Sonar 6 a whirl while you're at it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: marsnic]
      #410842 - 24/01/07 10:17 AM
Quote marsnic:

Quote Conz:



I've been MIDI programming for 20+ years now and to be honest, most of the feautures that've been added to Cubase over time I rarely or never use. I program simple edits, using note on / off, volume, AT, the usual stuff. What I do with Cubase, from a MIDI point of view, can be done with my old program Music X, so I'm almost certain I will be fine with Pro Tools LE.

I still need to do a lot more homework before I make the switch though. Hopefully in this time too, we will see some progression (either way) with Steinberg.

Cheers,
Peter




I wouldn't hold your breath. You might as well make your decision now because in the 20 odd years I've been a Pro24/Cubase user, nothing's changed. From my poor experiences over the years (with Steinberg and most other companies), I no longer expect decent support (hardware or software). If you get it (and it's not in Mumbai), it is a bonus but it seems a rarity now. I know that is not right, but that is the reality of the world today from my experience. What I do look for however is a good user community and to that end, I now never contact Steinberg support but go straight to the forums. I've personally never had a problem solving a problem this way. Even companies with good technical support (Soundscape being the best I've come across), I still find myself more often than not using the user forums.




Ah, Pro 24. That brings back memories. I actually started off using Pro 12, but soon moved to 24 (amongst a few other packages). I never really had any problems with Steiny back then, probably because everything was a lot simpler and didn't have the internet explosion we have today to bring the user community together, hearing other user horror stories.

P

--------------------
Composer, Songwriter, Producer, Sound Designer
www.peterconnelly.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410868 - 24/01/07 10:51 AM
Hmmm, the Pro Tools family and options are starting to make more sense to me. I have a Delta 1010 and there is a Pro tools M Powered package which might be perfect for me:

Pro Tools M Powered INFO

Very cheap!

P


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410869 - 24/01/07 10:52 AM
Quote Conz:

Hmmm, the Pro Tools family and options are starting to make more sense to me. I have a Delta 1010 and there is a Pro tools M Powered package which might be perfect for me:

Pro Tools M Powered INFO

Very cheap!

P




I'd love to try before I buy though. I really need to see if PT works for me! I suppose it could if it had to, but nice to try first.

P


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tomafd



Joined: 03/10/05
Posts: 3468
Loc: uk
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410885 - 24/01/07 11:16 AM
Just to say that having started on Pro 12, then 24, on the Atari, I went Logic about 5 years ago (having finally replaced the Atari with a Mac) simply because most of the folk I was working with were using Logic, and easy transfer to other systems was important.

One of the best music tech decisions I ever made... for flexibility and open architecture (which often cause the initial confusion people have with Logic) you can't beat it, so if you need plenty of room for all kinds of routing and experimentation, go Logic. You won't regret it !

--------------------
http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410891 - 24/01/07 11:29 AM
Quote Conz:

Quote Conz:

Hmmm, the Pro Tools family and options are starting to make more sense to me. I have a Delta 1010 and there is a Pro tools M Powered package which might be perfect for me:

Pro Tools M Powered INFO

Very cheap!

P




I'd love to try before I buy though. I really need to see if PT works for me! I suppose it could if it had to, but nice to try first.

P




Got a 7 day trial download from the M-Audio site. Nice!

P


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tomafd]
      #410892 - 24/01/07 11:30 AM
Quote tomafd:

Just to say that having started on Pro 12, then 24, on the Atari, I went Logic about 5 years ago (having finally replaced the Atari with a Mac) simply because most of the folk I was working with were using Logic, and easy transfer to other systems was important.

One of the best music tech decisions I ever made... for flexibility and open architecture (which often cause the initial confusion people have with Logic) you can't beat it, so if you need plenty of room for all kinds of routing and experimentation, go Logic. You won't regret it !




Yeah, I know a few people that swear by Logic. If I were a Mac user, this would be a good candidate, but as I'm PC it just isn't viable at the moment.

Cheers,
Peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #410893 - 24/01/07 11:30 AM
As a former 'ship jumper' from long term Cubase (up to SX) use to Pro-Tools LE, I would advise caution before jumping;

I too found that Cubase SX had many bugs and issues (mainly around MIDI for me) in the software that was starting to drive me mad, and like others I was disatisfied with Steinberg support.

The move to Pro-Tools LE (via the MBox 2 bundle) initially proved to be twice as painful for one main reason; whereas PT is generally more stable and bug-free than Cubase from a Software/operating perspective, PT is MUCH more sensitive to the hardware that is used. You need to consider this as Hardware based incompatibility and issues can be more frustrating and get in the way of creativity a lot more than software bugs! For starters, PT will not work with all PCs / MOBOs / etc. You need to check the compatibility section at www.digidesign.com to ensure it will work with your system. Next, you will need a seperate (2nd) drive for audio. PT is not happy sharing the primary OS drive for it's audio files. If you compromise on this, PT may still run but latency, playback and even WAV Rendering performance can be seriously affected.

Next comes the fact that PT is locked in with the Audio Interface that you buy it with (except PT M-Powered), so is not as flexible in this regard.

Also for all the MIDI heads out there, remember that PT is still heavily oriented towards audio recording, and MIDI sequencing is still not it's natural, intuitive speciality.

I do confess to a smug grin when I read these posts. Being an ex-Cubase SX, ex-Pro Tools LE user who now works blissfully on Tracktion 2, with absolutel rock solid reliabiltiy in every respect, a fantastically simple workflow, and did I mention how good the audio summing (mixing) engine sounds, thanks to the radical new math approach used? People persist in turning their nose up at Tracktion but (like Samplitude) it should be a very serious consideration for those fed up with things getting in the way of fast, powerful, intuitive music making!



--------------------
What it says on the tin...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #411391 - 25/01/07 02:31 AM
Quote Conz:

Quote Dave B:

I had a look at Samplitude last week (for obvious reasons) and whilst it is very feature rich, it just doesn't float my boat for some reason. I find the user interface unappealing (picky and personal I know) and generally doesn't seem to flow as nicely as I'd hoped.

Personally, if I were to move from Steinberg to something else, it would probably be (do I hear groans?) Pro Tools - simply as it is an industry standard. I'd keep a version of Cubase for midi arranging and then do all serious work in PT.




I'm with you 100% on this, although the demo was easy to get into, there was just something that didn't float my boat too and I'm seriously considering PT





This cracks me up you guys, because I am in the same exact boat! I tried the Samplitude demo tonight for the first time, and although I didn't spend very much time with it, I do have to say that it did not float my boat either. Cubase just looks and acts more "classy" in some way that I cannot describe fully.

If I am to go the PT route, it will be PT HD, and not the PT LE version. I need ADC and rock solid ability.

To Keef's comments about the plugins...

I looked into this extensively, and most of the VST (native) plugins also have RTAS (Pro Tools Native) versions on the same disc at no additional charge. These will run fine in PT, and run natively on the host CPU. At some point, I might consider upgrading to the TDM versions of some of the more popular plugins, but for now, I could get by just fine with the RTAS versions for those that are so equipped, and with a VST wrapper for those that are VST-only.

By using this philosophy, I can probably get by with a PT HD1 or HD2 system, no problem.

Still lots of money I know, but I am tired of playing Steinberg's game.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #411394 - 25/01/07 03:35 AM
I am another one on this boat. I am not crazy about the look and work flow of what I have seen with Cubase 4. I like my vst instrument setup in SX 3. I don't like the dark screens and difficult to read menus. Not to mention all the bugs that it currently has.

I told Doublehelix and others that we have been using Cubase for many years and we are so used to it. Samplitude has more of a Cubase 5.1 look and feel. I spent about 2 hours with it yesterday and calling up the help desk on how do you do this, and can you do this. I was not very excited about it either. Tonight I got all my VST instruments (including Hypersonic II), UAD and Waves plug ins working with Samplitude. I would think you would need to at least record a couple of songs from start to finish on any new DAW before you to start to get used to the look and feel of it.

I can tell you already that I like the arrange page in Samplitude better. I like that the plug ins, effects, and info is all on the left side of the page and all at the same time. Then depending on what stage your at on a song, there is a easy, mastering and other menu on the bottom of the screen which shows different icons and options. Some of them hide when you choose the mastering option since you won't need them at that time. So it only displays particular things on the arrange page when you choose the different options. This makes the arrange page cleaner and not as messy.

Samplitude does not need as much cpu to run compared to Cubase. It opens a lot faster and just seems to be easier on my computer. What I don't like is not having the ability to have two mixers on one screen, with one showing audio tracks and the other mixer showing midi and vst tracks. However seeing all your effects, inserts, and EQ on each track on the mixer is really nice and very informative. I was also told by Samplitude that they are going to have a special for a couple of weeks on a cross grade option of only $399 US dollars. That will be a $200 savings on the regular upgrade. It would also only cost $200 more than the upgrade to Cubase 4. I could still use Cubase SX 3 and learn Samplitude until I am ready to use it with clients. I have to admit I am starting to like Samplitude a little more each hour I am on it. This would be interesting if all of us jump to Samplitude. We would then have to ask SOS to have a Tips article with Samplitude as well.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #411413 - 25/01/07 07:25 AM
I'm a cheapskate. Using freebie plugs always carries with it the risk that you bring down your entire DAW with an ill judged choice. What sold Samplitude 7 to me when backing off of SX1 was the fact that when something does go wrong, Sam 7 traps the fail in a dialog that lets you save the project in a controlled way. SX1 just unexpectedly vanishes leaving a wrecked and unusable project behind.

It's the little unobvious things. Like running two versions of Sam at once synced on different ASIO drivers. There's a whole world you just don't expect if you're coming off of Cubase.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: S G H Houbart]
      #411447 - 25/01/07 09:24 AM
I also tried Sonar demo yesterday, but hated it. It seems a million miles from SX and Samplitude. It's very well presented and is pleasing to the eye, but the MIDI edit is plain awful (that was the killer for me). Once I realised what I was dealing with, I shut it down. BUT, in fairness, thought I'd give it another go and digged deeper. Same result. Hated it.

Maybe I didn't give it enough time, I dunno, but as with games if I can't pick up the controller and get straight into them, chances are I won't stick with it or buy them.

Cheers,
Peter


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12442
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Glenn Bucci]
      #411480 - 25/01/07 10:45 AM
Quote Blueberry:

We would then have to ask SOS to have a Tips article with Samplitude as well.




Yes please - I'm definitely for this.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
MsM



Joined: 09/02/06
Posts: 103
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #411501 - 25/01/07 11:28 AM
I'm also at a decision point, going from SX3 to what? Samplitude looks interesting, does it have the same or similar kind of integration with external effects and MIDI instruments as Cubase?

M.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
JosephR



Joined: 23/01/06
Posts: 204
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #411772 - 25/01/07 08:18 PM
I too jumped off the Cubase wagon a while back...and i'd be lying if i said i missed it as my main DAW, (although i have to confess to having reinstalled Cubase LE just for MIDI control of external gear).

I'm now relying on a combination of Tracktion 2 and PT LE but to be honest neither are great for MIDI. I like Tracktion because it's so quick, laying down a track in the box really doesn't get much easier, and PT is great for recording/audio editing but neither of them are comparable to Cubase for controlling external synths.

I'm definitely going to have a look at Samplitude now, after everyone's recommendations, and hopefully i can reconsolidate things back into one package...probably not but it's worth a try


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #411838 - 25/01/07 11:24 PM
I really don't do much (if any) midi work, so I would be OK with a limited implementation compared to Cubase, but I *do* want it to work.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #411850 - 26/01/07 12:04 AM
Quote Doublehelix:

I really don't do much (if any) midi work, so I would be OK with a limited implementation compared to Cubase, but I *do* want it to work.




I recorded some midi tracks and you have the ability to control the notes, velocity, etc just like Cubase. I also like the punch in markers on the transport, and the editor it has. There is a expander on the master bus which is cool, and a way to keep the level at 0 with a push of a button. Also found to cut and paste to be a little quicker than Cubase. Just got down reading 150 pages of the manual. Still have a couple of questions, but I think I should be able to switch and know 70% of what I will work with in about a 2 week time period. At this point I am leaning towards getting it. I think Keef is too. Keef where are you?

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com

Edited by Blueberry (26/01/07 12:04 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Sam Inglis
SOS Features Editor


Joined: 15/12/00
Posts: 1746
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #411941 - 26/01/07 09:46 AM
FYI, there are some Samplitude workshops in the pipeline for SOS later this year...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #411978 - 26/01/07 10:35 AM
Sorry, I've posted a similar comment elsewhere. I'm a long time Cubase user (back on Atari with Pro24). I've used it virtually every day for the past 12 years. So a move to any other platform is going to be tricky. I've tried the demos of both Samplitude and Sonar and just can't seem to get into them at all. Is this because Cubase is better or more likely that I'm so used to Cubase that I just can't see beyond the different interface and gui.

I know that in principle I should look for an alternative to Steinberg due to the shocking way they have treated loyal customers over the years. However, Cubase 4 offers me an application that I'm familiar with and new features that will be very handy. Whether they work or not remains to be seen!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #412015 - 26/01/07 11:22 AM
Quote Loudbox:

Sorry, I've posted a similar comment elsewhere. I'm a long time Cubase user (back on Atari with Pro24). I've used it virtually every day for the past 12 years. So a move to any other platform is going to be tricky. I've tried the demos of both Samplitude and Sonar and just can't seem to get into them at all. Is this because Cubase is better or more likely that I'm so used to Cubase that I just can't see beyond the different interface and gui.

I know that in principle I should look for an alternative to Steinberg due to the shocking way they have treated loyal customers over the years. However, Cubase 4 offers me an application that I'm familiar with and new features that will be very handy. Whether they work or not remains to be seen!




It's probably a mix of both. If you HAD to use Samplitude, you'd find that you would pick it up MUCH quicker and enjoy using it more. I think anyone moving over will have to fight through that barrier if they really want to leave Steinberg and work with another package.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #412021 - 26/01/07 11:32 AM
Quote Conz
It's probably a mix of both. If you HAD to use Samplitude, you'd find that you would pick it up MUCH quicker and enjoy using it more. I think anyone moving over will have to fight through that barrier if they really want to leave Steinberg and work with another package.




Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I guess the truth is that I dont HAVE to move away from Cubase. I'm only considering it out of principle. Cubase is offering me a tool that I'm comfortable with and will allow me to create music. Which I guess is the main requirements when choosing a DAW. I'm sure Samplitude will offer the same eventually. I'm not sure I can cope with the learning curve and time out from creating. But then at the same time I hate the fact that I have to pay out £140 for an :


pgrade" with Steinberg. An upgrade that still doesn't feature what was promised in previous versions. Grrr.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
maaszy
member


Joined: 28/01/04
Posts: 206
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #412100 - 26/01/07 01:31 PM
All this talk of alternative DAW's. Not suggesting it as an alternative - just yet....... but have you guys tried Reaper? non-crippled shareware at the moment, but it is coming along very, very quickly with user-requested features being added every week. Very flexible, customisable interface, small footprint, seems extremely stable. Perhaps just another cult DAW, except the guy behind this one is Justin Frankel who designed Winamp and then sold it for loads, and also the guy who invented the gnutella peer to peer network. I think steinberg need to watch their back.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
marsnic
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 839
Loc: Southborough, Kent UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: maaszy]
      #412115 - 26/01/07 02:07 PM
Quote maaszy:

All this talk of alternative DAW's. Not suggesting it as an alternative - just yet....... but have you guys tried Reaper? non-crippled shareware at the moment, but it is coming along very, very quickly with user-requested features being added every week. Very flexible, customisable interface, small footprint, seems extremely stable. Perhaps just another cult DAW, except the guy behind this one is Justin Frankel who designed Winamp and then sold it for loads, and also the guy who invented the gnutella peer to peer network. I think steinberg need to watch their back.




I'll give this a go later - Looks interesting. What are your overall thoughts on it? Is there anything obvious missing?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #412120 - 26/01/07 02:20 PM
Is it really viable for a commericial studio? Or someone who uses it on long sessions every day such as myself? If it is then great but I have my doubts.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: maaszy]
      #412123 - 26/01/07 02:22 PM
Yes, I have tried a couple of versions of Reaper. It's ok for recording (not tried midi stuff yet) but I find that the UI needs a fair amount of work. It also looks like a piece of Windows software - very obviously so and I prefer things to be a bit more neutral. I'm sure that it will come on in leaps and bounds and so I am keeping an eye on it as it develops. It's great, but not really _there_ yet for me...

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
jamescrist



Joined: 22/10/04
Posts: 5
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: PrinceXizor]
      #412383 - 27/01/07 10:23 AM
Quote PrinceXizor:

Did you get it set up in the mixer mode that appeals more to Cubase users?

Jim




Hey Jim!

Is the "mixer mode" option available in the demo?

Also, do you know how to get a hold of a dealer in the usa for the crossgrade deal?

Thanks,
Jamie


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #415025 - 01/02/07 03:33 PM
Quote Dave B:

Not necessarily 'knock me out', but I do have a thing about the aesthetics of software - usually if it is clearly laid out and readable then it easier to use especially for long periods. This is one of Steinberg's strengths imho although I will probably bite the bullet and get a copy of C4 and am dreading the darkness...




I know what you're saying about Cubase visuals looking a little more "polished". However, most new users find it difficult to memorize the meaning of all those tiny visual objects in Cubase. The icons are very unintuitive, don't have tooltips, and a lot of them are too small for your eyes' comfort. When I get back to Cubase after not using it for a while, I can't remember what those things are! Though slick the Cubase UI looks, I find it thoughtless and kitschy.

=============================================
Kitsch. In the arts, anything that
claims to have an aesthetic purpose but is tawdry
and tasteless. It usually applies to cheap sentimental
works produced for the mass market, such as those
found in souvenir shops and chain stores, but it is
also used for any art that is considered in bad taste.

Definition from Helicon Publishing Ltd.
=============================================


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #415267 - 02/02/07 05:12 AM
Well, I'm leaning towards a crossgrade to Sonar Producer. The support looks miles better & even the forum doesn't give the impression the mods have secret service sunglasses on and jaquebutts.
I don't see any updates to C4 before Easter and the 64 bit Vista version will take years by the look of it and if past history repeats itself they won't get it right until you've paid an extra £200+ for 2 more upgrades. Also I see that the VST standard may be overtaken which will cause them one hell of a headache.
I'll give them a bit more time but I'd rather use a product that delivers without playing peekaboo with it's customers.

Now somebody shoot me down. Explain to me why my assumptions are wrong. I'm all ears. But if anyone says I'm conspiracy theorising I answer that that's because Steinberg's somewhat less informative (and agreeable) than the KGB.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
MsM



Joined: 09/02/06
Posts: 103
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #415284 - 02/02/07 08:04 AM
What happened to the posts between 27/1 and 1/2 of this thread?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: MsM]
      #415296 - 02/02/07 08:45 AM
Quote MsM:

What happened to the posts between 27/1 and 1/2 of this thread?




Damned good question! Perhaps the Cubase.net mods have infiltrated SOS ...

Weren't those posts about the pros and cons of other packages?

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #415299 - 02/02/07 08:48 AM
Just worked it out : we have two similar threads that are crossing over each other timewise. So the posts about functionality of Samplitude, etc are in the other thread, the 'Steinberg cancel SX3' thread.

Phew! We are safe from the Cubase.net secret police still!



--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #415389 - 02/02/07 11:26 AM
Quote Dave B:

Phew! We are safe from the Cubase.net secret police still!







I don't know about that!!! They are sneaky little devils!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #415394 - 02/02/07 11:32 AM
Quote tex:

Well, I'm leaning towards a crossgrade to Sonar Producer.




I made the following (or similar) comment in the cubase.net lounge forum:

Sonar looks pretty impressive, but somehow I just can't shake their "home/amateur" reputation. I know this is unfair, and I am being a snob here, but it just can't bring myself to consider Sonar as a professional application.

I *KNOW* this is incorrect, and that they have come a long way since their earlier versions, but it is an ingrained notion nonetheless.

Samplitude looks unfinished, and amateurish is some ways, and doesn't thrill me so far, but I really do need to spend some more time with it.

So what is left on the PC platform?

-PT LE - no way! I need ADC.
-PT|HD - expensive for what you get. Not sure if I want to buy into that hardware paradigm

What else am I missing?

I record 99% audio, and do very little midi (almost none). No loops or samples to speak of (except some sample replacement for drums using Drumagog).

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #415403 - 02/02/07 11:48 AM
Quote Doublehelix:

Quote tex:

Well, I'm leaning towards a crossgrade to Sonar Producer.




I made the following (or similar) comment in the cubase.net lounge forum:

Sonar looks pretty impressive, but somehow I just can't shake their "home/amateur" reputation. I know this is unfair, and I am being a snob here, but it just can't bring myself to consider Sonar as a professional application.

I *KNOW* this is incorrect, and that they have come a long way since their earlier versions, but it is an ingrained notion nonetheless.

Samplitude looks unfinished, and amateurish is some ways, and doesn't thrill me so far, but I really do need to spend some more time with it.

So what is left on the PC platform?

-PT LE - no way! I need ADC.
-PT|HD - expensive for what you get. Not sure if I want to buy into that hardware paradigm

What else am I missing?

I record 99% audio, and do very little midi (almost none). No loops or samples to speak of (except some sample replacement for drums using Drumagog).




Fairlight MFX3?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10780
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #415428 - 02/02/07 12:26 PM
Quote Doublehelix:



Sonar looks pretty impressive, but somehow I just can't shake their "home/amateur" reputation. I know this is unfair, and I am being a snob here, but it just can't bring myself to consider Sonar as a professional application.

I *KNOW* this is incorrect, and that they have come a long way since their earlier versions, but it is an ingrained notion nonetheless.






I don't know where you ever got this impression from DH. Cakewalk (and its successor Sonar) has always been a professional program although they tend to conform more to the standard Windows interface guidelines so it doesn't have some of the fancy graphics that Steinberg software has. In fact, as someone who has never used an Atari, Steinberg software looks amateurish to me.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #415460 - 02/02/07 01:01 PM
Quote Conz:

Quote Doublehelix:

Quote tex:

Well, I'm leaning towards a crossgrade to Sonar Producer.




I made the following (or similar) comment in the cubase.net lounge forum:

Sonar looks pretty impressive, but somehow I just can't shake their "home/amateur" reputation. I know this is unfair, and I am being a snob here, but it just can't bring myself to consider Sonar as a professional application.

I *KNOW* this is incorrect, and that they have come a long way since their earlier versions, but it is an ingrained notion nonetheless.

Samplitude looks unfinished, and amateurish is some ways, and doesn't thrill me so far, but I really do need to spend some more time with it.

So what is left on the PC platform?

-PT LE - no way! I need ADC.
-PT|HD - expensive for what you get. Not sure if I want to buy into that hardware paradigm

What else am I missing?

I record 99% audio, and do very little midi (almost none). No loops or samples to speak of (except some sample replacement for drums using Drumagog).




Fairlight MFX3?




Oops, this aint PC, sorry


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #415520 - 02/02/07 02:21 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

-PT LE - no way! I need ADC.




I don't understand. Do you mean that you need more ADC than they can offer? (I'm assuming you mean analoge-digital conversion). The Digi 002 can do 16 channels and I'll be interested to see what the 003 actually ends up being. I know that the 002 isn't great in the mic pre dept, but iirc you have better outboard anyway.

Quote Doublehelix:

I record 99% audio, and do very little midi (almost none). No loops or samples to speak of (except some sample replacement for drums using Drumagog).




Which means that you actually _are_ a Pro Tools user in my book...

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #415535 - 02/02/07 02:53 PM
I was not too excited about Samplitude at first, but now after several recordins, it feels like an old friend. I know my way around it already for the basic things, and the midi and drum midi maps work just like Cubase.

I have tried Sonar, and the mixer looks similar to Cubase in that the faders are big in your face on the screen. Samplitude is a futher away shot but it allows you to see more. So far Sonar does not seem to have a similar work flow on many things like Samplitude and Cubase. It could be that Sonar is an American program and they have more of a microsoft work flow to it. All these small box icons on top that you really can't see well. They are too small to figure out what they are. You have to put your mouse over each icon to know what it does. And there is like 20 of them across the screen. Yes Cubase and Samplitude has icons put they are much bigger and you can figure out what they are jut by looking at the picture.

Doublehelix, on Samplitude there are different skins you can choose from, so if you don't like the mixer look, you can change it's appearance. This function is not on the demo, but I have seem pictures of another mixer that is more grey.

I have firmly decided not to go to Cubase 4, and I would like to make the move soon if I go to Samplitude since they will be having that cheaper crossgrade for Feb. That way I can continue to use Cubase with customers while I learn Samplitude on my own projects. Got to move forward.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #415779 - 02/02/07 11:06 PM
Quote Dave B:

Quote Doublehelix:

-PT LE - no way! I need ADC.




I don't understand. Do you mean that you need more ADC than they can offer? (I'm assuming you mean analoge-digital conversion).





Sorry Dave, I should have spelled it out! ADC = "Automatic Delay Compensation". Interestingly, it does look very much like A/D conversion. Sorry about that!!!

ADC is the ability of the host software to compensate for the delay caused by the plugins. So when you insert a compressor plugin on a channel for example, it takes a certain amount of time for the signal to pass through the compressor algorhythm, and then back into the host program again. This is compounded by DSP-based plugins like UAD-1 plugins.

So in a large project with a lot of tracks, the one track with the compressor is going to be slightly behind the others due to the delay caused by the compressor plugin.

Now compound this with the fact that most tracks have at least one plugin, and some have several, and each plugin has a different amount of delay.

This can lead to smearing of the sound and some subtle phase issues.

ADC automatically compensates for this issue.

Several years ago, nobody had ADC, and we all had to find ways to manually compensate for this kind of stuff, *especially* with the DSP effects (UAD-1, Powercore). Nowadays pretty much everybody has ADC, *except* PT LE.

Sorry for the confusion. Hope that helps!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #415835 - 03/02/07 06:16 AM
Quote Doublehelix:


Sonar looks pretty impressive, but somehow I just can't shake their "home/amateur" reputation. I know this is unfair, and I am being a snob here, but it just can't bring myself to consider Sonar as a professional application.





What you said implies that Cubase is a professional/mature application. Would this thread come in existence had that been true? The sad truth is that the PC platform doesn't have a PROFFESIONAL, STABLE, and MATURE sequencer that wouldn't be tied to specific hardware.

Therefore... the hell with the slick UI! The meat behind those buttons must do something. I mean, does it matter if your hamster looks cute when it falls of the wheel after each feeding?

This is why I'd choose Sonar over Cubase any time of the day.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #415869 - 03/02/07 09:49 AM
Quote dima:


What you said implies that Cubase is a professional/mature application. Would this thread come in existence had that been true? The sad truth is that the PC platform doesn't have a PROFFESIONAL, STABLE, and MATURE sequencer that wouldn't be tied to specific hardware.





Actually, the main reason with this thread is how Steinberg treats its customers, not anything to do with whether Cubase is a professional/mature platform.

SX 3.11 is extremely stable, professional, and mature. There were a few "features" that needed fixing, but then again, what software doesn't, including Sonar?

SX 2 was the same way.

SX 1 was the same way.

Cubase VST 5.1 was the same way.

What we have now is a new version, Cubase 4, that is riddled with bugs, and a company that is slow to respond, and could care less than their customers. They cancel promised upgrades to legacy products, and drop support for others without a moment's notice.

These are things that tick us all of, and end up generating threads like this all over the internet.

I agree with your inference that in order for a product to truly be professional, it needs to be backed by a professional-acting company, and Steinberg falls flat on its face in this area.

My comments were meant in a different vein.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #415879 - 03/02/07 10:46 AM
Quote dima:


The sad truth is that the PC platform doesn't have a PROFFESIONAL, STABLE, and MATURE sequencer that wouldn't be tied to specific hardware.




Nuendo is just for rich hobbyists then is it?

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #415894 - 03/02/07 11:24 AM
Quote Doublehelix:


Sorry Dave, I should have spelled it out! ADC = "Automatic Delay Compensation". Interestingly, it does look very much like A/D conversion. Sorry about that!!!




DH, Reaper has this at ALL points in the signal path.

I had recently been thinking of upgrading to SX3 (still on VST 5.1), because I really needed ADC too, and I have just been having too many problems of late with VST.

But now that Steinberg have pulled this I've decided I'm not going to follow their hellish forced "upgrade" path.

I have been playing around with Reaper a bit lately, and I have to say that I find it much more intuitive, more problem free, and seems to offer me a much faster work flow than Cubase.

You can also customise the look a bit, which I find very nice. I have a couple of "skins" set up that I can switch between, with different colour schemes, to ease the eye strain a bit. Actually, it's an absolute doddle to make your own skins if you wan. If you have even the tiniest bit of savvy with graphics programs like Photoshop or GIMP, you can even use the graphics from a screen grab of Cubase or whatever, to infuse a little of that look into REAPER.

And, as mentioned before, it just keeps getting updated -- sometimes every few days, or every couple of weeks, and it gets better and better.

Check some of the basic tutorial videos.

FWIW, there are seem to be a number of pro engineers switching to Reaper, because they are happy with the user interface, features, the routing (which is phenomenal), etc. Justin is also working closely with some working pro engineers in the development of this thing, as well as paying very close attention to the suggestions and wish lists of the users, to make sure that it is a program that is intuitive and easy to use, and has the features people really want.

There's also a fair bit of discussion about making things easy to import and export projects to/from other applications.

I also like being able to do so many things on the fly (including while recording) that I could never do in Cubase, like assign recording inputs and arm tracks, editing, inserting plugins and VST instruments, etc. I was in a studio a while back during an overdub session for a hip hop recording, and the producer was editing bits of the overdubs on the fly (in Pro Tools). I remember thinking how much cooler it would be to be able to do some of this stuff on the fly that I couldn't in Cubase.

It's also very fast and light on the CPU (people reporting successfully running reaper on old P2 and PIII computers with ancient sound cards, etc.) without clicks and pops, etc.

And bugs that show up as this thing develops get fixed almost as soon as they show up.

The development of this thing is absolutely the antithesis of the kind of crap we've been seeing from Steinberg and other big software companies, and the whole ethos behind Justin Frankel's software company (Cockos) is really very much user-focused, rather than big profits/big corporation feeding business model we've been seeing more and more of in recent years. To be honest, I've come to the conclusion that it's time to vote with my feet, wallet, etc., and try to support guys like this, and I think it may be in ALL of our best interests to do so, particularly as long as big business is pulling the utterly inexcusable crap it's been pulling.

Also, Justin is a multimillionaire from having had AOL buy out Winamp, Nullsoft, etc. So it seems he's doing this because it's a project he wants to do and believes in, and it's not like this is something that is being done completely on a shoestring and is likely to dry up as soon as the developer gets a "real job", etc., as often happens with projects like this. I think there is a real intent to make it a very serious application that offers serious competition to other professional applications, but also with the intent that this thing isn't going to cost the earth for people to own and maintain.

I've been watching this thing for a while now, and the more I find out about it, the more I like what I see. It's a breath of fresh air, really.

And I think it's a very worthwhile project to keep an eye on, and perhaps participate by making suggestions if you feel it doesn't (yet) have features you need. Given the fact that it's currently unrestricted shareware, and registration is very reasonable if it's something you begin to use regularly in a commercial application, it basically costs you little or nothing to watch and support a project that very potentially could end up being a rather ubiquitous application. If it isn't exactly right for you now, perhaps it will be later, and you won't have paid premium prices for beta software that never gets sorted out.

As an aside, I've also been looking at Zynewave's Podium. Looks very interesting as well. Some very cool features that could make for a very nice, speedy work flow.

Sorry to ramble on about this, but I am getting so sick of this whole planned obsolescence thing, and being forced to upgrade before I'm good and bloody well ready to upgrade. This is the kind of crap that destroyed the U.S. auto makers in the '80s as well. People got so sick of buying cars that were built to break down, and to nickle and dime you to death with repairs, that people just started to buy Japanese cars instead . . . because they weren't intentionally engineered to break down.

That kind of crap REALLY, REALLY, REALLY sticks in my craw.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #415933 - 03/02/07 01:32 PM
DH - Ahhh ... I see ... you mean PDC (plug-in delay compensation) as some of us call it. And LE doesn't have that? Silly old Digi!!

Scott - yes, I keep looking at Reaper and (as I said in before - possibly in the other thread) whilst it is functionaly rich and fantastically lightweight (woo hoo), it's the UI that let's it down for me. After the last mention, I downloaded another eval version and it's getting better - I found a skin that I quite like - but that's just the main window that's improving. The dialogs are a little basic and there's a fair few of them. In a few versions time, I suspect that I will be prepared to part with (admittedly a small amount of) cash but not _quite_ yet.

Interesting what you say about the author though...

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
UnderTow
member


Joined: 27/02/03
Posts: 317
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #415962 - 03/02/07 02:39 PM
Quote Doublehelix:


Several years ago, nobody had ADC,




For the record, Cakewalk have had full APDC since Cakewalk Pro Audio 7 or 8. (8-9 years) They never advertised it because they considered it essential in a fully functional DAW.

UnderTow


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #416012 - 03/02/07 04:46 PM
Quote Dave B:

DH - Ahhh ... I see ... you mean PDC (plug-in delay compensation) as some of us call it.




Dave:
Haha!!! I have always called it "PDC" as well, and lately, I have been corrected several times, so I thought *I* had it wrong, and have been calling it "ADC" for the last couple of months! That is pretty funny...


Scott:
I keep hearing the Reaper name pop up all over the place, and it certainly sounds like they are starting to make a name for themselves.

The problem (for me) with a new startup like this is that there is very little outside 3rd party support. For example, Lynx tests their driver updates with all the usual suspects, but I would guess not with Reaper. When CB4 came out, there were several plugins (mostly VSTis if I remember correctly) that did not work well with CB4, so they had to be updated by the manufacturers in order to function. I would guess that very few of these folks test their products with Reaper... at least *YET*.

Someday, SOS will probably even publish a monthly technical article called "Reaper Notes"!

I will go ahead and take a closer look anyway, if for no other reason that to see what all the fuss is about.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #416168 - 04/02/07 12:01 AM
Quote Doublehelix:


The problem (for me) with a new startup like this is that there is very little outside 3rd party support. For example, Lynx tests their driver updates with all the usual suspects, but I would guess not with Reaper. When CB4 came out, there were several plugins (mostly VSTis if I remember correctly) that did not work well with CB4, so they had to be updated by the manufacturers in order to function. I would guess that very few of these folks test their products with Reaper... at least *YET*.




DH, I have to tell you . . . one of the biggest things that has pissed me off recently with Cubase is that, even using the copy of Cubase VST that came with my Emu 1820M, I have had all kinds of VERY frustrating issues with getting the EMu and Cubase to talk to each other properly -- including some problems that outright ENDED TWO SESSIONS!

I also found it difficult to get the Behringer BCF2000 working properly with Cubase VST.

I have had NO such troubles with REAPER. As a matter of fact, REAPER talks better with my hardware than Cubase EVER did, and everything is much easier to set up. It's also very configurable -- you can even rename the inputs and ouputs, which can be nice if you have certain hardware wired in to certain inputs and outputs.

All third party plugins I've tried so far have also worked beautifully with REAPER. The plugins in REAPER are better than the native plugins in Cubase, and all the supplied Jesusonic plugins (highly unfortunate name, IMO, but people seem to now be referring to them as JS) are user editable, etc., so if you want to add new features or improve on them, this is an option.

ReaComp is a very interesting compressor (check the tutorial vids on that one).

ReaGate is a very configurable gate with wet/dry controls, lookahead (on hosts that support PDC), hysteresis, hold, noise generator, MIDI event sending (on hosts that support it), built-in filtering sidechain as well as supporting sidechain inputs, and more.

ReaFir is a FFT-based EQ/dynamics processor/noise removal/analysis plug-in. ReaFir can do a lot of types of processing, from standard linear FIR-based EQ, to noise signature detection and removal to per-band compression and gating.

REAPER includes a load of plugins with everything from Convolution to amp simulation.

Hehe . . . another little feature that I dicovered quite by accident (I still haven't run across it in the documentation) is that there is a little slider below the master fader, which looked like a balance adjustment or something, but is actually a speed adjustment. So you can actually slow down the entire session if someone needs to practice a phrase in time and in correct pitch, but at a slower tempo, in order to nail it down. I haven't tried to record something at a slower tempo and then speed it up, but it seems to me somebody's really on the ball here, putting in a feature like that!

As Dave mentions, the effects dialogue boxes seem a little strange and rather plain, particularly at first. My first impression of it was. "OK, that's kinda lame." However, now that I have a better sense of how it works, I like it better than the way Cubase handles it.

One cool thing about it is that you can set up a template with channels for all the different instruments you'd typically record in a session, and then any number of additional channels as send effects channels. Any channel can be run into any other channel either as a group channel or as a send channel, and you can do any kind of side chaining you want, which is something I very much missed in Cubase. Then in each of those channels you can load any and all plugins you would typically use on that instrument, etc., and order them the way you want.

Then, for each channel, you can uncheck the boxes for any and all effects you do not want to use for the time being. As long as the box is not checked, that plugin is turned off and eats no processing power. You could load 100 plugins into a channel, and as long as they are turned off you place no strain on your computer.

Found an effects chain that works particularly well or that you will use on a very regular basis? You can save the effects chain as a preset (it can also save the effects settings with the effects chain), and call up the entire effects chain at a moment's notice.

When you are mixing, if you get an effected sound you are happy with on a given channel, you can quickly and easily render the effected track as a new take and then turn off the plugins to save CPU cycles. Switching between takes is easily done by right clicking on a track and choosing take X. And it's easy enough to go back and change if you later decide you don't like it. This feature is a big help for older computers, like my aging P4 1.6 GHz machine.

I find the handling of multiple takes to be much faster and easier, with fewer mouse clicks, etc., in REAPER than in Cubase -- though the lanes in Cubase/Nuendo can be nicer for comping tracks. But, even so, you have an option to break all takes out into new subtracks, so you can use that in a similar manner to using lanes, and there is actually some talk of implementing an option to use Cubase/Nuendo style lanes in REAPER.

I find that there is a deceptive simplicity to REAPER, and it's easy to overlook or entirely miss some very deep features because of this, and because the documentation is fairly simple and not entirely complete at this point. That's why it's worth dropping in to the REAPER forums on occasion and having a look around. And, as I said earlier, those basic tutorial videos offer some nice insight as well. TBH, it was looking at those that convinced me to look a little deeper . . . at REAPER (sorry 'bout that one ).

Sorry for a bit of cut and paste, here, but:

Wide open compatibility

* Human readable and editable project file format
* Support for on-the-fly reading and writing of many common file formats, including WAV/W64/BWF, MID, AIFF, WavPack, FLAC, MP3 and OGG
* Support for consolidating track edits, to enable easy export of edited audio
* Support for rendering track stems, to enable easy export (with FX and automation)
* EDL import/export for both Samplitude and Vegas (there is also discussion of implementing OMF import/export for applications that support OMF)
* Includes ReaRoute, which enables sending/receiving of audio to/from most other ASIO enabled applications
* Supports ReWire enabled applications
* ReaMote offers realtime network FX processing (use spare machines on your local network for processing) -- though there is a disclaimer that this one is still very much in the Beta stages. But, for example, that also potentially increases the number of UAD or PoCo cards you could use, if you have a couple of spare computers lying around. Cheaper than buying a Magma PCI expander, too!

REAPER is also apparently set up for complete forward and backward compatibility -- unlike Cubase et al.

REAPER is also set up so you can install and run it from a portable drive -- so you can even throw it on a small USB drive and run it in a different studio, etc. (The whole installation package is less than 2MB, FFS.)

User arrangeable user interface. The following windows can be hidden, docked, or floated to meet your needs:

* Track mixer view
* Transport controls
* Undo history
* Media explorer
* Routing matrix
* Navigator
* FX browser
* Track FX chains
* Performance meter

You can easily switch between the docked windows by clicking the tabs at the bottom of the screen. I love this! I am not endlessly opening and closing windows in REAPER.

I don't mean to sound like a fanboy here, and REAPER may not have everything for everybody (yet), but, while I haven't had a chance to use it on a full project yet, I really like what I'm seeing here -- both in what it offers now, and in what it is likely to offer in the very near future.

One of the things I like about this is that there seems to be a very serious mission to offer as broad compatibility as possible, and to get away from the kind of overly proprietary design that makes it more difficult for musicians and engineers/studios to work with each other.

At the very least, I can forsee REAPER being a very handy tool for people to have in their arsenal, even if they also use another more proprietary package.

Again, I haven't had a chance to really use REAPER in anger yet, but I plan to start any upcoming projects in REAPER, so I can push it a bit more to see what happens. But I do know that there are a number of serious, working commercial studios that seem to have switched over from Pro Tools, etc. to REAPER and are extremely happy with it even as it is now.

And a look at the current history list shows version updates every couple of days since at least the beginning of January. Quite in contrast to the Steinberg pace!



--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #416208 - 04/02/07 03:18 AM
Quote Doublehelix:


Actually, the main reason with this thread is how Steinberg treats its customers, not anything to do with whether Cubase is a professional/mature platform.





Had the application been really mature and professional it wouldn't have so many problems. Had it not have so many problems, people wouldn't be so upset about the update cancellation. I could care less about how Steinberg treats its customers or how arrogant they are for as long as their software is working.

Quote Doublehelix:


SX 3.11 is extremely stable, professional, and mature. There were a few "features" that needed fixing, but then again, what software doesn't, including Sonar?





Cubase SX 3.x is the crapiest and buggiest application I ever paid for! If it works for you to the point where you're able to say "it's extremely stable, professional, and mature" then may be you shouldn't hang out with angry people and spare yourself from the unnecessary agitation.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rahnooo
new member


Joined: 29/01/04
Posts: 198
Loc: York, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Scottdru]
      #416235 - 04/02/07 09:38 AM
Quote Scottdru:

I don't mean to sound like a fanboy here, and REAPER may not have everything for everybody (yet)




Well I'm sold. I've been looking for an alternative solution to the unenviable (but necessary) upgrade from Cubase LE to Cubase 4, and if Reaper is half as good as you say it is then it'll be good enough for me. And at that price it has to be worth experimenting with

Thanks for the tip Scott.

*Rahnooo*


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416246 - 04/02/07 10:13 AM
Configurable GUI -- some screen grabs:

As I mentioned before, the colour schemes and buttons in REAPER can be extensively customised (and quite easily as well).

The default theme is not that great looking, but a lot of people are doing their own schemes and posting them up in the REAPER forums.

REAPER can look much nicer than the various different themes you see in the screenshots on the website.

I've posted up a screen grab of REAPER, playing one of the demo songs, with the theme I'm currently using, which, if memory serves, uses the colour scheme from one preset and the buttons from another. You can have a look HERE. Personally, I find this theme to be very clear, uncluttered and easy on the eyes. I also feel the metering here looks nice and is very clear.

Note the tabs at the bottom of the screen, where you can dock many of the function windows and toggle between them with minimal mouse clicking and movement. Also, you'll notice that, if you select a track, it will be clearly highlighted in a different colour (which can also be changed to your preference) both in the channel settings panel at the left of the screen and also in the corresponding mixer channel.

If you don't like the look of the fader handles, buttons and other icons, you can always copy from a screen shot of your favourite application, edit as necessary in Photoshop or GIMP, and replace the corresponding icons with your own graphics. Screen grab of one of the icon folders from one of the theme presets HERE.

There's another screen grab of what it looks like reassigning track inputs on the fly in REAPER while playing or recording HERE . This is a very easy right click function, rather than having to stop playing or recording, and then go through all kinds of rigamarole pushing multiple buttons and multiple menus, etc. to reassign a track input and arm it for recording in Cubase.

If I've got an artist recording a part, I can add a new track, label it, assign the inputs, arm the track, and have the track ready to go by the time the artist is done recording the one part, and is ready to move on to recording the next part. And I'm not mousing back and forth all over the screen or having to make an excessive amount of mouse clicks to do it.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Scottdru]
      #416294 - 04/02/07 11:39 AM
OT: Scott, which theme is that?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Jez (mahoobley)
monkey


Joined: 21/03/03
Posts: 2216
Loc: East Midlands
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416348 - 04/02/07 02:05 PM
Is it just me or does Reaper bear somewhat more than a passing resemblance to Acid?

--------------------
http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416351 - 04/02/07 02:19 PM
OK Scott:

Maybe I am an idiot, but I cannot view the images. It looks like I need to join esnips to see them? Bummer. Can you email or PM them to me instead?

I spent some time with the demo videos, and you are right they are very cool! If the development continues on the path it is on now, this is going to become a serious competitor.

I also spent a short time on their Forum, which is also encouraging.

One thing that seems to be missing is cooperation from Universal Audio with their UAD-1 card. There seem to be some issues there, which is a bummer since I use those plugs extensively (I have 3 cards in a Magma chassis).

Dima:

Not sure what you problem is, but *you* seem to be the angry one. I never attacked you, but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about something.

You obviously do not have all the information you need to make your explosive comments, as SX 3.11 is one of the most stable releases from any DAW company. Maybe you had the initial release of SX 3 and are basing your reactions on that? Even SX 3.02 is rock-solid. Pretty much *everyone* that I know says that, including the angry masses at cubase.net.

Stability is not the issue with SX 3.11. Promised features that were not delivered are the issue. The software works well, and is in daily use in *thousands* of studios. So what does that say about you? If you cannot use it, either you have an initial release, a cracked copy, an ill-configured computer, or are making sensationalized comments to add worth to your argument. The Cubase and Nuendo market share is many times bigger than the Sonar one, so if it was the buggiest, crappiest software you have ever used, maybe it was something you were doing wrong?

Most companies have buggy releases at .0 releases, including Sonar. In fact, Sonar has just *finally* released version 6.2 which *FINALLY* fixes the issues with the UAD-1 cards that has been going on for a couple of years... A couple of years!!! How about that for response time?

Chill out a bit there man... life is too short for such anger.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Wurlitzer
Active member


Joined: 11/12/02
Posts: 3341
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #416352 - 04/02/07 02:23 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Quote tex:

Well, I'm leaning towards a crossgrade to Sonar Producer.




I made the following (or similar) comment in the cubase.net lounge forum:

Sonar looks pretty impressive, but somehow I just can't shake their "home/amateur" reputation. I know this is unfair, and I am being a snob here, but it just can't bring myself to consider Sonar as a professional application.

I *KNOW* this is incorrect, and that they have come a long way since their earlier versions, but it is an ingrained notion nonetheless.

Samplitude looks unfinished, and amateurish is some ways, and doesn't thrill me so far, but I really do need to spend some more time with it.

So what is left on the PC platform?

-PT LE - no way! I need ADC.
-PT|HD - expensive for what you get. Not sure if I want to buy into that hardware paradigm

What else am I missing?

I record 99% audio, and do very little midi (almost none). No loops or samples to speak of (except some sample replacement for drums using Drumagog).




If you're willing to push that "almost none" to "none", then I'd thoroughly recommend a look at Sony Vegas. I haven't used it since back at version 3 but at the time I thought it had the clearest, most elegant and intuitive interface I'd ever seen on any DAW. Extremely stable too.

Only problem with it is no MIDI, which makes it out of the question for me. I know some use it synced to another app for MIDI, and this is apparently not a big problem.

FWIW I use Sonar and love it to bits. But then I'm not a snob.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Wurlitzer]
      #416355 - 04/02/07 02:35 PM
Quote Wurlitzer:

If you're willing to push that "almost none" to "none", then I'd thoroughly recommend a look at Sony Vegas.





It has been a while since I have used any midi, but I do use it occasionally, so I'd like to keep that option available. Thanks for the suggestion however. I have head that Vegas is GREAT for video work, and considered picking up a copy for that reason alone. I have a son that is really into editing video, and I am sure that he could work wonders with it.



Quote:

FWIW I use Sonar and love it to bits. But then I'm not a snob.





Ouch!!! Guilty as charged!

I know it is a great program, and that my bias is just prejudice from nowhere. I actually tried Sonar at version 1, and just couldn't get on with it, and have not tried it since. I really need to download the demo and make up my own mind about it, and not use old prejudices to influence my decisions. This is WAY TOO IMPORTANT to do that. Our DAWs become like our family, as we are more intimate with them than most other things in our arsenals. It is one of the most important and personal choices that we make.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
SVEA



Joined: 28/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Norway
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416464 - 04/02/07 07:52 PM
Thanks for the heads up Scottdru. I'd heard of Reaper, but hadn't checked it out. Actually it seems like quite a serious bit of kit. I got a bit of a shock when I opened up the preferences and was confronted with a huge amount of configuration possibilites, pretty much the same as Cubase studio 4 which is what I currently use (and hate). I've been tinking I'd have to move over to Mac, but I'm gonna seriously check this program out first and see if it'll do the business.

Actually, some thing came to me as I was flicking through the various *themes* it has, and that was how important a likable GUI is and at the same time how unimportant it is too.

I (obviously in the minority) actually really like the C4 GUI, the work flow is improved no end, except that my work doesn't flow, as it keeps crashing. Anyway, that style of interface (dark) appeals to me and makes me comfortable, which is conducive to a productive session I feel.

Now obviously, the GUI doesn't matter so much when it comes to assesing the recording and editing facilities present in sequencer, but I must say, I am guilty of the fact that if you had presented reaper to me in one of it's grey windows/sonar 1 looks, and told me I had to live with it, I probably wouldn't have even bothered checking it out further. You can see my configuration of Reaper HERE, I particularly liked the way I could specify the colour of the selected track.

So why is it then (although I know nothing about programming), if a program like Reaper can have such extensive GUI options and weighs in as such a small program, why do we have to live with what the big DAW sequencer manufacturers give us? Is it considered *amateurish* to be able to *skin* a program or something?

By the way, I realise that for daily commercial use, perhaps Reaper isn't perhaps uo to the mark.. yet, but I bet it's a kick ass (and much cheaper) option to the masses out there making music at home.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Wurlitzer]
      #416542 - 05/02/07 01:45 AM
Quote Wurlitzer:

Quote Doublehelix:


Sonar looks pretty impressive, but somehow I just can't shake their "home/amateur" reputation. I know this is unfair, and I am being a snob here, but it just can't bring myself to consider Sonar as a professional application.

I *KNOW* this is incorrect, and that they have come a long way since their earlier versions, but it is an ingrained notion nonetheless.

Samplitude looks unfinished, and amateurish is some ways, and doesn't thrill me so far, but I really do need to spend some more time with it.

What else am I missing?

I record 99% audio, and do very little midi (almost none). No loops or samples to speak of (except some sample replacement for drums using Drumagog).




If you're willing to push that "almost none" to "none", then I'd thoroughly recommend a look at Sony Vegas. I haven't used it since back at version 3 but at the time I thought it had the clearest, most elegant and intuitive interface I'd ever seen on any DAW. Extremely stable too.




As I understand it, REAPER was actually modelled after Vegas at the start, with the intention of taking that simple, but effective user interface, and developing something that offered more features and flexibility on the audio side for professional users. FWIW.

Quote Wurlitzer:


Only problem with it is no MIDI, which makes it out of the question for me. I know some use it synced to another app for MIDI, and this is apparently not a big problem.




I may do a bit of this myself with REAPER and Cubase (or some other MIDI sequencer) if I need some more advanced MIDI programming features that REAPER doesn't yet have. Should be fairly sensible to do, given that REAPER supports ReWire, and also has its own ReRoute features.

For now, I do mostly audio, with various bits of MIDI stuff, but I don't use a lot of the more advanced/automated MIDI programming features at this point (other than automation of faders and occasionally some plugins or external effects. If I can play stuff in and move it around as needed, that's basically what I need for 99.9999% of what I do at this point.

Doublehelix Quote:


FWIW I use Sonar and love it to bits. But then I'm not a snob.



That's another thing that I think we need to fight in this industry. There are so many people using so many different sequencer packages now, it's becoming increasingly irrelevant which software you use, or which platform you use. I very strongly feel that the creative process needs to be as platform independent as possible. As a musician, I don't give a f**k what software or hardware is being used -- I just want it to work well, offer the functions I need, be stable/reliable, and sound good. And I don't want it to slow me down in the middle of a creative burst.


Quote Koed:

OT: Scott, which theme is that?




It's called Unempty_DarkBlue. It's one I downloaded from the REAPER forum. I'm going to try some tweaking with the icons, etc., to get a look I like even better (when I get some more time). I like those detented buttons in the theme Hagalund posted up. That theme and the colours it uses looks great too!

Quote Doublehelix:

OK Scott:

Maybe I am an idiot, but I cannot view the images. It looks like I need to join esnips to see them? Bummer. Can you email or PM them to me instead?




I tried emailing them to you, DH, but it bounced back to me, saying "this user is over quota" or something.

You might try a different browser? I just checked the links using IE (only because IE won't automatically log me in as a user/member at that site), and I had no problem viewing the pics.


Doublehelix Quote:


One thing that seems to be missing is cooperation from Universal Audio with their UAD-1 card. There seem to be some issues there, which is a bummer since I use those plugs extensively (I have 3 cards in a Magma chassis).




Yikes! I guess that will be a pretty important issue for you then!

One thing about the way this software is being developed is that it's being run a bit like an open source project -- especially since it can be used as uncrippled shareware or you can register it under a "personal use only" license for only $50.

So you get a lot of users working with it and trying out different configurations and reporting back, etc. So, while there may not be direct "cooperation" with the UAD at this point, the UAD is a pretty popular and important piece of gear in this industry, and, if there are enough people saying they need to be able to use this gear (which I'm sure there are already), Justin will find a way to address it (and perhaps buy a UAD card himself to figure out how to fix the problems).

It's not like Justin is new to developing software that has to run on all kinds of different gear, etc.

There is actually an industry movement amongst a number of signatory software developers (Justin being one of those signatory developers) that holds certain core values at high priority for software development. I don't remember what the name of the group is at the moment, but some of the principles are to develop software that is stable, widely compatible, easy and intutive to use without requiring ridiculous amounts of documentation, and to make sure any necessary documentation is clear and concise. I wish I could remember the name of the group and/or find the link to the website. Very interesting. I'll post it up if I run across it again.

I know some of the other developers in this group have been keeping tabs on the REAPER project, and I remember one of them posting in the REAPER forums, saying that, while he didn't have any real connection to music, he had been watching the development of REAPER because it was an excellent implementation of the core principles of type of software development.

That's one of the reasons I feel that this is one that is really worth following and supporting, because I think we need more of this kind of thing in the industry, rather than big corporations fighting for every last scrap. We all lose out when this stuff happens -- the big software companies, the big record companies . . . all of them. It doesn't need to be like this. I have no problem with people getting fabulously wealthy when they develop products and/or offer services that are superior in quality. But when a company's business model/marketing focus moves from offering quality to spending more time, money and effort shutting other developers out of the market so they can have it all to themselves, then we have a big problem -- and we ALL lose.

I also have to wonder if some of this more healthy, quality/user-focused development might help prevent piracy as well. When big software companies charge premium prices to release beta level software that is full of bugs, or they pull a Steinberg and repeatedly reneg on promised features and fixes, it devalues the software in the minds of many people in the market, and people feel like they are being ripped off.

Likewise, when the big record companies force loads of bullsh*t cookie cutter, throwaway music down the throats of the market, and at the same time push truly talented and interesting artists out of the market, it devalues music as a saleable product. If people find music that they know they will want to keep and listen to over and over for years, they will go out and buy the CD. But if they just want to be able to listen to the current ear candy that they will only tire of when the next new bit of ear candy comes out, they'll download it -- and if there is an option download it for free, then unfortunately many people will go for the free option.

If a really quality piece of software comes along that doesn't cost the earth to purchase, perhaps a lot of people who might not have paid the premium buckage for the big name beta software will pony up a few bucks to support the software company that serves their needs, so that development can continue.

I also think it's a pretty fair idea charging non-professional users a lower price so they can enjoy using the software as a hobby, and requiring a higher fee for professionals who use it to generate income for themselves.

Quote Doublehelix:

Sonar has just *finally* released version 6.2 which *FINALLY* fixes the issues with the UAD-1 cards that has been going on for a couple of years... A couple of years!!! How about that for response time?




Ummm . . . better than Steinberg's overall response time?

Anyway . . . I'm really not meaning to try to over-sell REAPER, or to hijack this thread to make it about REAPER; but, especially having looked at some of the background of this thing, I do think that the whole REAPER project is rather an eye opener as to how things COULD be, and I think it is well worthwhile for we users to keep an eye on it, and

I think that the big software companies would do well to take heed as well. But they probably won't take heed unless those who would be their customers FORCE them to take heed!

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #416543 - 05/02/07 01:46 AM
Quote Doublehelix:

Not sure what you problem is, but *you* seem to be the angry one. I never attacked you, but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about something.





Doublehelix:

I'm angry with Steinberg and the fact that I paid money for a ticket to the dead end. Don't know why you decided I'm angry with you personally.

Cheers!

P.S. Look at the title of this thread. Make sure you're comfortable with the subject. There's a lot of angry Cubase users out there.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: SVEA]
      #416546 - 05/02/07 02:11 AM
Quote Hagalund:

You can see my configuration of Reaper HERE, I particularly liked the way I could specify the colour of the selected track.




I like the look of that one too! Which theme is that?

Quote:


So why is it then (although I know nothing about programming), if a program like Reaper can have such extensive GUI options and weighs in as such a small program, why do we have to live with what the big DAW sequencer manufacturers give us?




I'm with you on that one!

Quote:


By the way, I realise that for daily commercial use, perhaps Reaper isn't perhaps uo to the mark.. yet, but I bet it's a kick ass (and much cheaper) option to the masses out there making music at home.



But, as I understand it, there are indeed pro studios using it in daily commercial use -- many of whom have switched from Pro Tools because they like it better.

Also, one of the pro engineers who seems to be working closely with Justin on this stuff is Aaron Carey (Stevie Nicks, Megadeath and Gin Blossoms, among others) -- a/k/a Pipeline Audio (the guy who did the REAPER demo videos, and who also has a lot of impulse files up at noisevault.com).

FWIW.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
SVEA



Joined: 28/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Norway
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416730 - 05/02/07 04:18 PM
Quote doublehelix:

One thing that seems to be missing is cooperation from Universal Audio with their UAD-1 card. There seem to be some issues there, which is a bummer since I use those plugs extensively (I have 3 cards in a Magma chassis).




Well, there was a new relaease today to v1.77 in fact:

* big clock: fix for completely offscreen on startup
* navigator: shows custom track colors, bettervertically shrunk views
* dx/vst: denormal reduction improvements
* vst: optional UAD-1 no-flush mode (prefs/VST) to help avoid munch
* midi editor: CCs show 0/centered events
* midi editor: display for PC shows 1-128
* midi editor: doubleclicking scrollbars zoom out
* midi editor: numpad keys move events when not in step sequencer mode
* midi editor: midi CC moving with events only moves CCs on same channel as events

It would seem that this Justin is on the case! Perhaps that UAD1 fix above will help?

@ScottDru:: You can look at my colur prefs here . Think you have to tick all the little boxes at the top (the one about the buttons isn't marked by default).

Just been checking it out some more..incredibly fast boot-up time (10 secs), and just loads of little features that make me think - why is this possible and I haven't seen it before even though I've shelled out a few hundred quid for steinberg stuff?

I'm going to download the manual and run a project through this baby and if it checks out, this Justin guy can have my money, even though I probably won't get what it costs from selling my copy of C4 studio


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Henry-S
member


Joined: 11/07/04
Posts: 937
Loc: UK, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416770 - 05/02/07 05:25 PM
I like Double Helix have used Cubase for ages, learnt on VST 5 at age 16 and have never really looked back.

I ain't going to touch Cubase 4 with this stunt though and having been checking the Reaper site each week it really is looking very good.

I also love the way it just says "if you move over to commercial use just give us your details and pay the difference between the non commercial and the commercial". It just seems like the proper way to do it. No penalising a customer for not being commercial and then suddenly being able to make money.

For £21 and having updates till 1.99 and that 2.00 wont be coming out till Autumn, think its going to be my next stop for sequencing!.

Scott thanks for all the info you have posted as well, should email the guy who created Reaper and show him how your converting users

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Henry-S]
      #416775 - 05/02/07 05:40 PM
Quote Henry-S:


I ain't going to touch Cubase 4 with this stunt though



It would seem that it's more like a cunning array of stunts innit.


--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416798 - 05/02/07 06:45 PM
Hmmm . . . already reports coming in that the UAD-1 cards are now working with no problems ( REAPER Forum UAD-1 thread). Time will tell if the fix works for all mobo chipsets. From the sounds of it, a large part of the problem is UAD's own issues, with the DAW programmers having to find workarounds.

Somebody apparently sent Justin their UAD-1 card to work with.

As I said . . . this guy isn't sleeping on stuff. If for no other reason than to see how things COULD be . . . fascinating to watch.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Henry-S
member


Joined: 11/07/04
Posts: 937
Loc: UK, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416803 - 05/02/07 07:07 PM
Having used this for a little this evening, I am really starting to like it.

I am a little scared because all of my projects are in Cubase but I suppose wouldn't be a huge hassle having to move them.

EZDrummer isn't liking reaper so far, but I think an autodetect might sort it out, as it loads up the interface but its blank (and looking on the reaper forum seems as though a redetect or reinstall will sort it).

One bug I am having is the whole "direct x" vst's. If I have Direct X plugins enabled (none) then when I click on the button it comes up asking to add Direct X plugins and there is no way out of the menu. I have to ctrl-alt-del and kill the app. For the moment I have disabled the checking of Direct-X vst-e's and hopefully get it sorted at a later date.

The UI is good but I do agree it could look a little more attractive, but if your going on the non commercial license for £21 this is pretty dang good!

Will be playing with it more later on

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky

Edited by Henry-S (05/02/07 07:09 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
steveman



Joined: 17/03/02
Posts: 1142
Loc: London - UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Scottdru]
      #416804 - 05/02/07 07:14 PM
Quote:

Likewise, when the big record companies force loads of bullsh*t cookie cutter, throwaway music down the throats of the market, and at the same time push truly talented and interesting artists out of the market, it devalues music as a saleable product. If people find music that they know they will want to keep and listen to over and over for years, they will go out and buy the CD. But if they just want to be able to listen to the current ear candy that they will only tire of when the next new bit of ear candy comes out, they'll download it -- and if there is an option download it for free, then unfortunately many people will go for the free option.




Nothing really to do with the topic at hand, but I thought this needed repeating. Sadly true of much modern goods - built in obselescence, so no real value attached to it by the buyer...

Quote:

Someday, SOS will probably even publish a monthly technical article called "Reaper Notes"!




That would surely sound SOS's death knell

/coat


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
IvanSC



Joined: 08/03/05
Posts: 7799
Loc: UK France & USA depending on t...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Glenn Bucci]
      #416809 - 05/02/07 07:31 PM
Quote Blueberry:



I have tried Sonar, and ..... All these small box icons on top that you really can't see well. They are too small to figure out what they are. You have to put your mouse over each icon to know what it does. And there is like 20 of them across the screen. Yes Cubase and Samplitude has icons put they are much bigger and you can figure out what they are jut by looking at the picture.





Ha ha! When I first tried Cubase back in the Atari days it took me ages to even figure out how to SEE the little floating box full of tools and the arcane icons gave very little clue to a novice as to what their actual function was.
Unfortunately all my subsequent dealings with Cubase were colored by that experience , to the extent that I have always thought of it as a bit amateurish!
I think they just proved this by the way in which the remains of the company are dealing with their customer base since the Yamaha takeover.

Amazingly, the authors of MY sequencer of choice (Bars `n Pipes Pro on the Amiga) have just resurfaced after many years working for Bloody Bill Gates and started making noises like they are considering a PC or Mac version of an updated BP Pro.
Now IF it happens, you guys better get ready to re-think your software choice and I will be right royally ticked off, having finally just sprung for Sonar and started learning it...

--------------------
Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1392
Loc: Belfast
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416811 - 05/02/07 07:36 PM
So, if you're a mac user......
Is it just cubase and logic?
Like others here, I've been a cubase since pro-24 on an atari.
When I evetually moved from VST last year to SL3 I did look at Logic and DP.
But at that time because I didn't fancy learning another program from scratch, and also no one else seems to have a proper drum edit page, I stuck with Cubase.
I'm not inpressed with Stingyberg's dropping of SL3 (& SX3) and their dropping of Midex support with a "not sure what we're going to do" annpouncement.
I'll probably still use it because it's only a hobby for me, not a profession.
It's interersting to see what you guys are looking at as alternatives, but if any mac users find other stuff, let us know too!

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: IvanSC]
      #416832 - 05/02/07 08:25 PM
Quote IvanSC:


Ha ha! When I first tried Cubase back in the Atari days it took me ages to even figure out how to SEE the little floating box full of tools and the arcane icons gave very little clue to a novice as to what their actual function was.





I've been using Cubase since SX 2 and I can assure you all those tiny icons are stil there. I never got used to them. Somebody already suggested there's something wrong with my setup, perhaps there's also something wrong with my brain but sorry, Steinberg UI always felt unmanageable to me.

When I tried Sonar 6 demo I had no issues with any of the icons. Somehow everything was clear right from the start. Ok, the visuals could've been made a little slicker and hi-tech... but I felt I could jump in and work it right away.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Man of Style
member


Joined: 18/01/02
Posts: 205
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416837 - 05/02/07 08:33 PM
I am sorry to say that the screen shot of @reaper@ looks horrendous, If you think that looks good or is easy on the eye
you need an eye test real soon.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Henry-S
member


Joined: 11/07/04
Posts: 937
Loc: UK, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416866 - 05/02/07 09:12 PM
Man of style, you obviously haven't even looked at the skins then?

If you bother to go onto the forum and look into the color themes and icon sets you can actually see how custom the application can become.

This just isn't possible in things like Cubase or Logic or Sonar.

So i respect your comments that maybe in its "basic" form that its not amazing eye candy, but give it a couple more months and looking at some of the skins people have done on the website, looks pretty good to me

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #416883 - 05/02/07 09:40 PM
Hey Guys, maybe someone should start an I heart Reaper thread.
I did some midi recording with it today and I found some realy neat features that realy surprised me.
But it's so waaaay of tooopic it's starting to hurt


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Koed]
      #416966 - 06/02/07 06:17 AM
Quote Koed:

Hey Guys, maybe someone should start an I heart Reaper thread.
I did some midi recording with it today and I found some realy neat features that realy surprised me.
But it's so waaaay of tooopic it's starting to hurt




Since Reaper is an alternative to Cubase, I think it's right on the ball. But I'd love to hear more about alternatives to Cubase other than Reaper too.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #417486 - 07/02/07 02:06 AM
Quote Loudbox:

Sorry, I've posted a similar comment elsewhere. I'm a long time Cubase user (back on Atari with Pro24). I've used it virtually every day for the past 12 years. So a move to any other platform is going to be tricky. I've tried the demos of both Samplitude and Sonar and just can't seem to get into them at all. Is this because Cubase is better or more likely that I'm so used to Cubase that I just can't see beyond the different interface and gui.

I know that in principle I should look for an alternative to Steinberg due to the shocking way they have treated loyal customers over the years. However, Cubase 4 offers me an application that I'm familiar with and new features that will be very handy. Whether they work or not remains to be seen!




I also tried out Sonar and Samplitude. Samplitude works more straight forward to me over Sonar. Both howver are great programs. It took several hours on the demo to get comfortable with Samplitude and I read parts of the manual that is on their web site under the demo page. Now it feels very comfortable and I really enjoy using it. Even DAW though is not the best for everyone. You have to choose a program that you feel comfortable with and meets your needs.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: SVEA]
      #418076 - 08/02/07 01:30 AM
In talking to some about Cubase, one of the things that was annyoing is when you save a song onto a CD or DVD. When you put the song back into Cubase, it has all your takes of each voice and instrument on a different tracks due to the Batch export in Cubase. I was told this was not fixed in Cubase 4.

I called Samplitude and they told me we have the option of having it in batch or to have it put your takes of (whatever) all on one track. Well that did it for me, I told them to send me Sampltiude for the $399. That's the full version mind you. I was also told that they have version 9.02 out already and many improvements have been included in midi and additional things that people wanted. Very cool. Can't wait to dive in.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Glenn Bucci]
      #418086 - 08/02/07 02:08 AM
Blueberry:

I think you have some of your terminology mixed up...

Batch export is something that Cubase 4 does NOT have, but something that folks have been requesting for a long time.

Batch export exports a bunch of tracks all at the same time, or in a batch.

What happens when batch export works correctly is that you end up with a single WAV (or AIFF) for EACH track in a mix. Each of these WAVs are of the same length, which is the length of the entire song (or section of the song between the markers). This allows for easy archiving of an entire project in a format that is (almost) future-proof, and can be easily imported into most DAWs.

An advanced feature would be the ability to choose exporting with or without effects.


CONGRATULATIONS on getting Samplitude! I hope it works out for you dude!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #418088 - 08/02/07 02:13 AM
Thanks, as you are the one that told me about this issue in the first place. I don't like that in Cubase the takes are on separate tracks. So if batch means that they put them in one track (all the punch in's, etc) then that's what I want and that's what Samplitude gives you.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Glenn Bucci]
      #418089 - 08/02/07 02:43 AM
Quote Doublehelix:

Blueberry:

An advanced feature would be the ability to choose exporting with or without effects.





Hehe . . . Reaper's got that.

Quote Blueberry:

Thanks, as you are the one that told me about this issue in the first place. I don't like that in Cubase the takes are on separate tracks. So if batch means that they put them in one track (all the punch in's, etc) then that's what I want and that's what Samplitude gives you.




And that too!

(sorry . . . just couldn't resist! )

In all seriousness, though, I do like the looks of Samplitude as well. That's probably the one I'd be looking at if I were in a position to do so -- and may still at some point. I've always thought Samplitude looked like a good option.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
EKeys
new member


Joined: 04/01/04
Posts: 11
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #418103 - 08/02/07 05:00 AM
I'm surprised noone has mentioned tracktion (soon to be t3) Anyone use this and love it. How about Ableton Live. Both of these are cross platform.

www.mackie.com/products/tracktion3/compose.html


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Lodious
member


Joined: 15/10/02
Posts: 593
Loc: East Midlands, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #418239 - 08/02/07 11:47 AM
As pretty much an ex-Cubase user I have started to use Live, and I love it. I will keep Cubase as they are slightly different products, but as someone who mainly records on his own, Live has been great. Ableton appear to be great people, and they do so much to help you get started, with really good tutorials available. You can use the full version (with Save disabled) free of charge.

I don't think Live is right for everyone, but if you want a creative boost, it's worth a try. Even if you stick with a conventional seqencer, I think getting to grips with Live would be worthwhile, as it gives you a different prespective on how to do things, which could be applied to your workflows.

Dealing with Ableton really made me realise just how broken things are with Steinberg's attitude.

--------------------
I like people, it's my friends I can't stand - Larry David.
http://www.myspace.com/lodious


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
AllyB
active member


Joined: 07/03/04
Posts: 1030
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #418473 - 08/02/07 08:12 PM
yes same here, im using cubase less and less lateley. The surround panners are the only thing i use it for really.

--------------------
Producer etc


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: EKeys]
      #419080 - 10/02/07 10:27 AM
Quote E-Keys:

I'm surprised noone has mentioned tracktion (soon to be t3)




I was always confused about Tracktion. It used to be sold as an "easy to use / clean interface" type of solution which made an impression it was for the beginners. The upcoming T3 is advertized as "the fastest way to create professional music". I still don't know how pro and complete the Tracktion is.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #419414 - 11/02/07 01:29 AM
Received Samplitude yesterday. Got the dongle to work ok, had a little problem getting sound to work. (I had to click the monitor box on the setup) The basics in recording is pretty much the same as with Cubase. However there are things that are different. The mixer has a spacial enhancer on the output bus. This is nice to have right at your finger tips. Seeing all my effects, EQ, and Aux all on one page at the same time is nice. The compressors, chorus and delay sound better to me compared to the one's in Cubase. The compressors are pretty much up there with the UAD 1176 and LA2 A. They sound similar (though a little different) but are just as good. Reverb on this program reigns. Outstanding sound I am getting. The wave on the arrange page is a little behind the cursor when recording. I was told by some more expericence Samplitude users that it gets a little more accurate wave form over some other programs. It's not a big deal as when you have play back, it's in the right timing. Found more options with metering than Cubase and with a click of a button, I can make a stereo track mono, or visa versa.

On the customer service side, I emailed them several questions on a Saturday, and I got a response in about an hour. One of the lads in Germany from their main office also commented on their forums when some real improvements were requested. So far I like this program...a lot.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com

Edited by Blueberry (11/02/07 01:31 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Glenn Bucci]
      #419445 - 11/02/07 05:38 AM
I just tried out Giga Studio with Samplitude and was blown away. In Cubase, you have to turn on the rewire. Then minimize Cubase. Then click on the icon for Giga, after it loads and I selected a instrument, I would click back to Cubase and have to wait about 5-8 seconds before I could work back in Cubase. I could never use the convolution reverb in Giga because it was too stressful for my Pent IV 2.8 computer with 2 gigs of ram. In Samplitude, I just click rewire, a Giga option is right there and it opens Giga right from Samplitude. I can switch back and forth between each program with not even a second delay. Its smooth, there's no glitches and I can use the convolution reverb in Giga and my CPU is still only at about 28%. This is amazing. Samplitude uses a lot less CPU than Cubase thats for sure.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Keef



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #419672 - 11/02/07 07:47 PM
Hi All,

I have been working very hard learning Samplitude. I have found the same thing as Blueberry. The programs uses less CPU compared to Cubase. The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster. Though Cubase is a great program , I like Samplitude even better. Real Conv.reverb, great synthetic reverb, amazing compressors, the midi mapping is easier than Cubase and all my plug in's work great with it. I have to admit though I would not of picked Samplitude until version 8 came out. It is now pretty rockin on midi and audio. No regrets here


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #419809 - 12/02/07 07:58 AM
Quote Keef:


The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster.




Not C/C++???


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #419985 - 12/02/07 01:12 PM
Quote dima:

Quote Keef:


The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster.




Not C/C++???





Maybe he means the efficiency of the coding???

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
ezza



Joined: 19/11/04
Posts: 346
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420002 - 12/02/07 01:32 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Quote dima:

Quote Keef:


The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster.




Not C/C++???





Maybe he means the efficiency of the coding???




The audio engine is wriiten directly in machine code I think.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: ezza]
      #420358 - 13/02/07 07:58 AM
Quote ezza:

Quote Doublehelix:

Quote dima:

Quote Keef:


The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster.




Not C/C++???





Maybe he means the efficiency of the coding???




The audio engine is wriiten directly in machine code I think.




Assembly is more complex but is more efficient indeed. Not very safe though.

Had the Cubase been written in BASIC it'd still have amusing bugs. I remember the Workspace stuff in Cubase would crash on me when making new Workspaces. And so I learned to suffer through the crashes while making my workspace and never touch it again. How difficult it is to make sure your basic windowing code works? I think it's all about the skill.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #420711 - 13/02/07 06:42 PM
I just went out and bought Samplitude using the special upgrade price of US$399. What a great deal, and I really couldn't pass it up.

Should be here in a few days. I am excited to give it a whirl.

Wish me luck!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Blue Lizard
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 500
Loc: Cleethorpes, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420726 - 13/02/07 07:25 PM
Well DH, if you get on well with Samplitude, please let us know in time before the cheap crossgrade expires at the end Feb. I'm in the same situation that you (and many others) have been in for the past few weeks; I have years of experience vested in Cubase, plus a studio setup based around it (Midex 8, Yamaha 01v96 that doubles very well as a Cubase controller) and this is the first time I've been even considering looking for a new DAW...

Of the current crop, Samplitude would be my pick, but I do like the look & feel of SX3, and C4 would be the only way to go to keep that going in the future

If only they'd get that bug fix out before the end of Feb!

--------------------
"It's not pretty, also you can't dance to it." - Frank Zappa
www.bluelizardstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Blue Lizard]
      #420756 - 13/02/07 09:09 PM
Just so you know Blue Lizard, I am probably the *last* person you would have ever guessed that would have jumped ship to Samplitude. I still can't believe I did it!!! I have defended Steinberg for so long now, it is just amazing. I have been using Cubase for many years as well, and it just feels like family.

With all of the latest developments in the Steinberg camp, I guess I just kind of snapped!

I'll definitely let you know how I get on with Samplitude. I have been playing with the demo, but it is pretty limited in it's ability to record multiple tracks, so the real test will come when I get the full version.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Blue Lizard
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 500
Loc: Cleethorpes, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420764 - 13/02/07 09:23 PM
Cheers DH, I know how much you've been a Cubase supporter in the past (here and on several other forums) and I reckon that if Samplitude can work for you, it can work for any current Cubase user...

Best of luck with it, and I do hope it does the trick

--------------------
"It's not pretty, also you can't dance to it." - Frank Zappa
www.bluelizardstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
G-Doubleyou



Joined: 10/02/06
Posts: 1450
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Kwackman]
      #420813 - 14/02/07 12:13 AM
Quote Lime ZRX:

So, if you're a mac user......
Is it just cubase and logic?
Like others here, I've been a cubase since pro-24 on an atari.
When I evetually moved from VST last year to SL3 I did look at Logic and DP.
But at that time because I didn't fancy learning another program from scratch, and also no one else seems to have a proper drum edit page, I stuck with Cubase.
I'm not inpressed with Stingyberg's dropping of SL3 (& SX3) and their dropping of Midex support with a "not sure what we're going to do" annpouncement.
I'll probably still use it because it's only a hobby for me, not a profession.
It's interersting to see what you guys are looking at as alternatives, but if any mac users find other stuff, let us know too!




You will pleasently surprised elsewhere. I stopped my Steinberg revenue stream back at SX2, because of performance issues when compared to the other Mac DAWs.

I was able get 40%-60% more instances of effects and instruments using Logic, DP4, and Live.

I was under the impression that all DAWS had bad releases Like Steinberg.

The other companies are way more responsive, with updates usually released in 60 days, instead of six months.

Haven't looked back, haven't missed it after being a longtime user since VST3.



--------------------
G-Dub
Studio G-fx 15inch quad-core i7 Macbook Pro Logic9.1.8, LPX 10.0.3


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421356 - 15/02/07 01:04 AM
Looks like quite a few people are switching to Samplitude.

I downloaded the demo as well but got put off by the UI. Big, plain, and unsightly buttons. When changing between pages in the Project Options dialog, the forms get repainted in a strange way. The menus are overcrowded and seem to contain an item for every single thing the application does in a plain-list fashion. I know some people here said they didn't like Sonar's UI because it's too plain. I think that Samplitude UI is even more plain plus it's not layed out very well.

I haven't made a decision on what I'll be switching to. So far I've explored only Sonar, Samplitude and Reaper. Reaper looks too immature at the moment (although may become a strong contender later). The only one I didn't explore is Tracktion. As I already said, Mac has Logic, but the PC platform doesn't have a de-facto sequencer that would completely satisfy the basic set of requirements (features, usability, quality, support). This situation is the only thing that Steinberg has going for them. At the core of the problem is not Steinberg, but the lack of viable alternatives. This is where they corner their users and this situation is very unfortunate.

Edited by dima (15/02/07 01:06 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #421362 - 15/02/07 01:35 AM
Samplitude has different skins for the program which will give you different looks. I thought the one on the demo was ok, but not great. The faders are too short for one. There is a much nicer one that comes with the program that you can choose. Plug ins are far superior, and basic midi is just as easy as Cubase with version 9.02. Plus I like that all the info is on the left on the arrange page all at once (and mixer as well). Cubase just shows you one item at a time.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421367 - 15/02/07 01:56 AM
Yeah, as I said earlier, Samplitude is definitely different than Cubase, and the interface takes some getting used to, but after playing with it for a while, you start to get the hang of it, and it has some really cool workflow improvements over Cubase.

Also, as Blueberry mentions, there are tons of skins available for Samplitude. Check this one out:

Vintage Samplitide Skin

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421378 - 15/02/07 05:32 AM
The vintage skin looks pretty good. Some of the icons remind me of something...

I didn't have a problem with Samplitude's tracks or mixer views. Only with the menus and dialogs. Can the menu items be reshuffled as well?

Can somebody who's got a full version of Samplitude do the following for me: load a project, go to Options->Project Options... The dialog will pop up. Jump between "General" and "Mixer Setup" in the tree on the left. Does it flicker and repaint like crazy?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10780
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #421460 - 15/02/07 10:47 AM
Quote dima:

At the core of the problem is not Steinberg, but the lack of viable alternatives. This is where they corner their users and this situation is very unfortunate.




They've cornered the education market so everyone learns Cubase at school but they've also cleverly made their interface totally non-standard so that switching to anything else is really difficult.

If you can break out of the Cubase mindset you'll find plenty of other usable software around but, if you can't manage to break out then you are doomed to always be stuck with Steinberg.

cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #421566 - 15/02/07 01:55 PM
Quote dima:

I didn't have a problem with Samplitude's tracks or mixer views. Only with the menus and dialogs. Can the menu items be reshuffled as well?





Yes, they can to an extent. You can add and remove things from the menus, I am not sure if you can move things *between* menus. I was just reading in the manual last night about how you can customize the menu trees, but I haven't tried it yet. I know there are "hide" and "show" switches for each item in the menu tree however.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: James Perrett]
      #421576 - 15/02/07 02:07 PM
Quote James Perrett:

If you can break out of the Cubase mindset you'll find plenty of other usable software around but, if you can't manage to break out then you are doomed to always be stuck with Steinberg.





I am finding it not as easy as I thought I would!!! I have spent a couple of hours behind the driver's seat of the Samplitude machine, and although I am able to do everything that I need to do (so far), it is a struggle learning the new paradigm. I am an old fart however, and have been using Cubase since the dinasaur days (maybe before).

I can see that Samp is a great program, and given some time, I will be able to fly around in it just like I do now with Cubase. There are some things that seem much faster and more intuitive, and others where I preferred the Cubase way of working. That is only natural.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421580 - 15/02/07 02:13 PM
There seems to be a lot of people switching purely to spite Steinberg and not because they want a better DAW. It appears that Cubase offers everything they need and they are having problems changing because the others are not meeting their requirements. I'm not saying that we shouldnt switch but at the same time the music and work flow shouldnt purely in order to get our own back at Steinberg.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421585 - 15/02/07 02:23 PM
Quote Loudbox:

There seems to be a lot of people switching purely to spite Steinberg and not because they want a better DAW. It appears that Cubase offers everything they need and they are having problems changing because the others are not meeting their requirements. I'm not saying that we shouldnt switch but at the same time the music and work flow shouldnt purely in order to get our own back at Steinberg.




I did not switch to spite Steinberg but because,

1. I do not like the new work flow that Cubase 4 has.
2. The screens are too dark.
3. They did not keep their promise in supporting 64 bit with Cubase. This is one reason why I upgraded from Cubase SX2. Going to Cubase 3 cost me money as it was not a free upgrade.
4. Much better plug ins with Samplitude
5. You can see more information on your screens without opening up new screens which helps the work flow.
6. Samplitude customer service is soo much better.

There are other reasons, but those are the main ones.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421595 - 15/02/07 02:32 PM
Quote Loudbox:

There seems to be a lot of people switching purely to spite Steinberg and not because they want a better DAW. It appears that Cubase offers everything they need and they are having problems changing because the others are not meeting their requirements. I'm not saying that we shouldnt switch but at the same time the music and work flow shouldnt purely in order to get our own back at Steinberg.




Spite or not. Doesn't matter. Steinberg at the moment are an extremely dodgy commodity & uncommunicative company. Like any other shop or company that has no regard for it's customers you do tend to look for better places to do business. When it works Cubase is the best for a lot of users but it hasn't been working in a lot of key areas for too many and faults have not only been ignored they have dropped the program they promised to fix without notice. That is a bit like walking into your local shop and seeing dusty shelves with a couple of nondescript tins on show and the owner saying they don't make groceries any more... You just know the shop is going to shut. Soon.
It's not so much spite as security. Reaper looks very good. They listen, they polish it up, they communicate. You can plainly see work being done and done well.
Who would you rather deal with, the grumpy twt with the dark dusty shop who never responds to his customers or the guy next door who asks cheerfully "How can I please you today, sir?" It's obvious to me.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421601 - 15/02/07 02:41 PM
I absolutely agree with both previous comments and its Steinberg's behavior over the years (and especially recently) that's lead me to seriously thinking about switching. Its just unfortunate that Steinberg are currently the only company offering a DAW that I can see myself working comfortably in and suits my workflow. I'm sure this is mainly down to the fact that I've used Cubase (and Pro24 prior to that) for the past 15 years. However, this is still an important factor in my decision process.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
EKeys
new member


Joined: 04/01/04
Posts: 11
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421612 - 15/02/07 03:16 PM
Several questions and observations:

1. Do you think Steinberg is surprised at how apparently wide spread the reaction to their decisions would be?

2. Do you think there is a chance they would back paddle and say something like, "after rethinking the situation we have decided to go back and fix this or change that..."

3. Is samplitude more popular in the EU than in the usa? I called a big shop (in the usa) and when I mentioned samplitude the software guy paused and put me on hold to find out about the product. He never came back on the phone. This shop has a reputation of being very knowledgeable.

4. If you chose to go with samplitude, what made you chose that over sonar, with sonar being so well developed and tested?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421613 - 15/02/07 03:16 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

I am finding it not as easy as I thought I would!!! I have spent a couple of hours behind the driver's seat of the Samplitude machine, and although I am able to do everything that I need to do (so far), it is a struggle learning the new paradigm.




The thing that worked for me when moving from SX1 to Sam 7 was the realisation that the mixer works like a mixer. I started out on 8 track too long ago, and the mindset you use with Sam is much more like the mindset you use with an oldtime physical mixer.

The later versions may be different, but the kind of thing I’m thinking of is like in Cubase if you want to automate a say a reverb level, you dig around in the track looking for the reverb send control’s automation hook and control that. It looks like Sam can’t do that because you don’t have a hook into a send level, but what you do is what you would do with a console, you send to a submix and automate that.

Once that change in paradigm clicked, I was away with Samplitude. You have to think more in the way a physical desk works, not in the way Cubase works. There’s such depth in Samplitude, after spending so long in the shallows, you need to have the balls to swim deeper.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421617 - 15/02/07 03:22 PM
Loudbox, I understand your concerns, believe me.

Just like anything, it takes time to learn something new, especially when it is something like a DAW that is central to the way you work.

For me, it was time.

I still have SX3 installed on my system, and will continue to use it for "real" stuff until I learn and feel comfortable with Samplitude.

When I first tried Samp, I will admit that I hated it. But I persevered, and now the light bulb is starting to go on. It really is a great program, just "different".

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421619 - 15/02/07 03:27 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Loudbox, I understand your concerns, believe me.

Just like anything, it takes time to learn something new, especially when it is something like a DAW that is central to the way you work.

For me, it was time.

I still have SX3 installed on my system, and will continue to use it for "real" stuff until I learn and feel comfortable with Samplitude.

When I first tried Samp, I will admit that I hated it. But I persevered, and now the light bulb is starting to go on. It really is a great program, just "different".




Cheers for the advice. Think I will just do the same and see what happens. Samp certainly seems to be the prefered choice around here.

Doublehelix, are you still working with the web trial version?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: EKeys]
      #421622 - 15/02/07 03:35 PM
Quote E-Keys:

Several questions and observations:

1. Do you think Steinberg is surprised at how apparently wide spread the reaction to their decisions would be?





No, I honestly don't think they are concerned one bit. They are so cocky, and think that they have the world wrapped up in the little pocket. They have so many customers, they are acting like "good riddance to the whiners".

Too many folks are scared to change, or as has been mentioned, there are not a lot of choices in the PC world, so they feel that they have a lock.

This is one of the things that I hate about Steinberg. They feel that they can treat you any way they want because "you'l never leave." Once I realized that, I was OUTTA THERE!.



Quote E-Keys:

2. Do you think there is a chance they would back paddle and say something like, "after rethinking the situation we have decided to go back and fix this or change that..."





Not in a million years. Not in two-million years. That would be paramount to admitting a mistake, and Steinberg *never* makes mistakes. Never.


Quote E-Keys:

3. Is samplitude more popular in the EU than in the usa? I called a big shop (in the usa) and when I mentioned samplitude the software guy paused and put me on hold to find out about the product. He never came back on the phone. This shop has a reputation of being very knowledgeable.





I can't speak for the EU, but Samp is certainly not as well known as Cubase, Logic, PT or Sonar. There are some shops that sell it, but it is best to order from the US distributor, Synthax. Right now, the crossgrade to Samp from Cubase is only US$399 (normally it is $599 to crossgrade, and $999 for the full program).

Also, Samplitude's big brother, Sequoia is *huge* in mastering circles.

Samplitude went through a few years in a sort of limbo state when it was owned by Sek'd, but was eventually bought by Magix who have invested heavily in the product, and it is now going quite strong.



Quote E-Keys:

4. If you chose to go with samplitude, what made you chose that over sonar, with sonar being so well developed and tested?





I just don't get on with Sonar for some reason. Everybody has their reasons. I always kind of felt that it was more of a consumer bit of software. I know this is not true, and I have already admitted elsewhere that I was being biased and prejudiced. Sonar just feels like a toy to me for some reason. Samplitude takes some getting used to, but it really feels professional to me.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421624 - 15/02/07 03:37 PM
Quote Loudbox:

Doublehelix, are you still working with the web trial version?




Yeah, I am, but the REAL full version is due on my doorstep today! I just checked the UPS tracking number, and there was a delay due to bad weather, but it still looks like it is on track for delivery. If for some reason the bad weather delays it, I expect it to be here tomorrow at the latest which means I have all weekend to play!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421634 - 15/02/07 03:57 PM
Quote :

oublehelix
Yeah, I am, but the REAL full version is due on my doorstep today! I just checked the UPS tracking number, and there was a delay due to bad weather, but it still looks like it is on track for delivery. If for some reason the bad weather delays it, I expect it to be here tomorrow at the latest which means I have all weekend to play!




Cool. I will expect a full report soon! Is there much difference between the trial and full version? Did you go for the cross grade option?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421642 - 15/02/07 04:12 PM
Quote Loudbox:

Cool. I will expect a full report soon! Is there much difference between the trial and full version? Did you go for the cross grade option?




Hehe... I will do my best!

The trial version is quite limited, but it allows you get a very good feel for what the real program is like.

In the demo version:
-You can only record one track at a time
-The TOTAL recorded time is limited to one minute
-Projects are limited to 3 mins max
-You cannot save anything
-Not all of the plugins are included
-The plugs that are included are feature-limited
-The full version has had an upgrade which adds features and bug fixes
-All of the cool skins are not included

Several other things, I am sure, but it really does give you a good feel for the program.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #421649 - 15/02/07 04:18 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot. I do go for the crossgrade option.

What a great deal! Here in the States, it was only US$399 (normally crossgrades are $599 with the full version at $999).

It was hard to pass up the deal. Supposedly going on until the end of February.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421706 - 15/02/07 05:48 PM
Doublehelix and I have been on Cubase since 5.1 We both had a hard time leaving Cubase. As soon as I read the SOS review of Cubase 4 I have been thinking about leaving. And only after playing with the demo for several hours, and checking out their forums, and speaking to them did I buy it. But I still have Cubase SX3 and I will continue to use it with my clients until I get to know Samplitude a lot better. This afternoon, I am working on my first song in Samplitude and I am going to work at 88. I will let you guys know how it goes.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421746 - 15/02/07 07:20 PM
Hi Doublehelix!

If the menus could be made less verbal I think I'd warm up to Samplitude a bit more. Is there an example skin that changes the menus?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #421765 - 15/02/07 08:16 PM
Quote dima:

Hi Doublehelix!

If the menus could be made less verbal I think I'd warm up to Samplitude a bit more. Is there an example skin that changes the menus?





Hey Dima:


Ya know, I am not sure if the skins change the menus or not since I am still on the demo, and skins are not included with the demo.

As I said earlier however, it is really easy to modify the menus manually and hide/show different items in the list.

As I am starting to see with Samp, pretty much everything is customizable, which is a good thing!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: EKeys]
      #421815 - 15/02/07 11:17 PM
Quote E-Keys:

Several questions and observations:

1. Do you think Steinberg is surprised at how apparently wide spread the reaction to their decisions would be?




I don’t think the reaction to DX was expected. I think the afterburn to dumping SX3 and MIDEX was quite calculated. It seems to me to be a deliberate decision to take the pain in one big hit, such that in a few months, maybe few people remember it.

If you’re going to piss down your leg, get it all out.

Quote E-Keys:

2. Do you think there is a chance they would back paddle and say something like, "after rethinking the situation we have decided to go back and fix this or change that..."




There has to be some element of a chance to that effect, but I don’t think so realistically. The damage done so far must be baptised away by somebody senior getting to prove they were right all along. I think the situation has passed the catastrophe threshold to the extent that management’s narrative of the events is permanently behind the wave crest of real damage they are doing to themselves. It’s crack addiction in the cash flow timeline – do it to them harder, stronger and more ruthlessly. By the time they work it out it’ll be too late.

Maybe the big waited for update will have a price tag. Something like that. Something robustly macho in market to bring the euro’s through the door in the short term, but which makes the situation very much worse in the long run. Whoever it is making these choices, they won’t stop till they are made to.

Quote E-Keys:

3. Is samplitude more popular in the EU than in the usa? I called a big shop (in the usa) and when I mentioned samplitude the software guy paused and put me on hold to find out about the product. He never came back on the phone. This shop has a reputation of being very knowledgeable.

4. If you chose to go with samplitude, what made you chose that over sonar, with sonar being so well developed and tested?




Try the demos. At the end of the day only you can choose.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #421831 - 16/02/07 12:00 AM
E-Keys: I notice today that Sweetwater carries Samplitude, as does Musician's Friend, as does JRR Shop and B&H for starters.

It seems to be everywhere I looked.

Good luck!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #422057 - 16/02/07 02:01 PM
Quote Doublehelix:


Yeah, I am, but the REAL full version is due on my doorstep today! I just checked the UPS tracking number, and there was a delay due to bad weather, but it still looks like it is on track for delivery. If for some reason the bad weather delays it, I expect it to be here tomorrow at the latest which means I have all weekend to play!





Well, dang! My package didn't show up yesterday, and when I checked the UPS tracking number this morning, they are saying that it got delayed due to the bad weather and heavy snow. Whatever.

Oh well, it is now scheduled for delivery today. Hopefully, it will show up as promised.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #422147 - 16/02/07 05:24 PM
Now Nuendo users are getting the thread moving/locking treatment as well: http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=14002

What with hardly a peep out of Steinberg for a month & mods reduced to threadlocking duties and "special offers" on Cubase from Arbiter it looks more and more like a locked shop to this customer at least. They also seem to have stopped advertising...

Big changes are going on but they've pulled the curtains over so we can't see if the lights are on or not.

I'll keep an eye out see what your reaction to Samplitude is.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #422515 - 17/02/07 06:54 PM
Quote tex:


What with hardly a peep out of Steinberg for a month & mods reduced to threadlocking duties and "special offers" on Cubase from Arbiter it looks more and more like a locked shop to this customer at least. They also seem to have stopped advertising...




If Steinberg has really stopped advertizing that means that they're out of advert money. If they're out of advert money, they're in DEEP trouble!

Check out this thread on the Cakewalk forum:

Dumping CUBASE 4 + SX3 and migrating to SONAR 6! A Story...
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=958708


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Lodious
member


Joined: 15/10/02
Posts: 593
Loc: East Midlands, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #422816 - 18/02/07 08:21 PM
The Cubase 4 adverts in SOS looked like they were done by a student doing work experience. Not what you'd expect for a flagship release.

--------------------
I like people, it's my friends I can't stand - Larry David.
http://www.myspace.com/lodious


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
white warrior



Joined: 09/07/05
Posts: 234
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: dima]
      #422865 - 18/02/07 10:58 PM
Quote dima:

Quote tex:


What with hardly a peep out of Steinberg for a month & mods reduced to threadlocking duties and "special offers" on Cubase from Arbiter it looks more and more like a locked shop to this customer at least. They also seem to have stopped advertising...




If Steinberg has really stopped advertizing that means that they're out of advert money. If they're out of advert money, they're in DEEP trouble!

Check out this thread on the Cakewalk forum:

Dumping CUBASE 4 + SX3 and migrating to SONAR 6! A Story...
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=958708




oh struth! am i the only one who just stares at sonars interface-mouth agape and drooling slightly!! cannot get on with it,thats why i will only choose cubase,simple yet effective!!

what you lot are forgetting is that cubase and stienberg are now owned by yamaha,so maybe its them we should have a throttling session with! im sure you lot are going to the sounds expo in march???........and steinberg will be there!!!!!! he wont make it out olympia alive LOL!

--------------------
Don't Laugh at my Cheese Sandwhich


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Keef



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: SVEA]
      #422875 - 18/02/07 11:17 PM
Just finished another project in Samplitude. The Score is so much easier to work with compared to Cubase. It does not have all the Score features that Cubase has, but I mostly play the parts on a keyboard and print them out for the bass player, or keyboard player. For that purpose it works great.

I will never record another project with my Cubase SX3. Sampltiude just works faster, has better plug ins, and gives you more info on the screens. (This means you have a better work flow.) Version 9.1 is coming out in the next 30 days which will fix some bugs, and improve the program once again. I can't record my BFD's at 96 right now, but this will be fixed with the update. Every time I have questions, I get answers from them directly within a day. I like that too. It's something I am not used to from Steinberg.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #422899 - 19/02/07 12:26 AM
Quote:

what you lot are forgetting is that cubase and stienberg are now owned by yamaha,so maybe its them we should have a throttling session with! im sure you lot are going to the sounds expo in march???........and steinberg will be there!!!!!! he wont make it out olympia alive LOL!




If they do the Expo and if they haven't got anything new all you'll see is a dusty desk and some large bits of tumbleweed.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Stephen Parker



Joined: 28/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423023 - 19/02/07 10:50 AM
Morning all,

I've been trying to follow this thread for the last week or so, but had forgotten my log in...

A quick couple of points - as far as I know, we've still been advertising Steinberg over the last few months, at least I hope so or i'll be looking again at those invoices!

(I'll pass on the comments about the ads to the guys that supplied them)

The special offers we're running at the moment are mainly for the Wavelab Crossgrades - Studio came out a few months ago, but needed a little help to get noticed - as you know Audio editors are not the most exciting things out there.

We'll be at Sounds Expo and would be more than happy to shoot the breeze with Cubase users - I think there's been some bad press over the last couple of months (that may or may not be justified) and I'll be happy to talk at the show - just ask for me there.

Cheers

Stephen Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
hifistud2



Joined: 12/02/06
Posts: 795
Loc: Near Sunderland, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Stephen Parker]
      #423034 - 19/02/07 11:19 AM
Quote Stephen Parker:

Morning all,

I've been trying to follow this thread for the last week or so, but had forgotten my log in...

A quick couple of points - as far as I know, we've still been advertising Steinberg over the last few months, at least I hope so or i'll be looking again at those invoices!

(I'll pass on the comments about the ads to the guys that supplied them)

The special offers we're running at the moment are mainly for the Wavelab Crossgrades - Studio came out a few months ago, but needed a little help to get noticed - as you know Audio editors are not the most exciting things out there.

We'll be at Sounds Expo and would be more than happy to shoot the breeze with Cubase users - I think there's been some bad press over the last couple of months (that may or may not be justified) and I'll be happy to talk at the show - just ask for me there.

Cheers

Stephen Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd




Thing is, Steve, you're going to end up taking all the flak for what the SB boiiz have been doing - dropping DX in CB4, not fulfilling their promised final update for SX3, the madness that is the dongle and their completely uncommunicative stance.

In the UK, it's as well for SB that the head honcho for A level Music Tech is so turned on to Cubase. He evangelises it, but I think even he must be becoming a tad wissed off with the SB attitude. I certainly am - and it would appear that many others are voting with their wallets.

It's a very worrying time for Steinberg - I would not like to be moored to their barge at the moment.

--------------------
[url=http://www.facebook.com/pages/hifi-studios/117322741632389[/url]


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
marsnic
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 839
Loc: Southborough, Kent UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #423055 - 19/02/07 12:06 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Oh yeah, I forgot. I do go for the crossgrade option.

What a great deal! Here in the States, it was only US$399 (normally crossgrades are $599 with the full version at $999).

It was hard to pass up the deal. Supposedly going on until the end of February.




Where did you find this deal and do you know if there is something similar in Europe?

Thanks

Darren


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Stephen Parker



Joined: 28/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423067 - 19/02/07 12:22 PM
Hi - in short, that's what we're here for.

Whilst I agree that communication could certainly have been better on the DX issue, my opinion is that if the announcement was handled a little better, it wouldn't have been so much of an issue.

The cancelled update for SX3 is also unfortunate as it was promised and there's nothing that annoys more than an unfulfilled promise.

All the best,

Stephen Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: marsnic]
      #423107 - 19/02/07 01:24 PM
Quote marsnic:



Where did you find this deal and do you know if there is something similar in Europe?

Thanks

Darren




I emailed Magix late last night and got a reply back early this morning from the UK distributer. They are doing the same deal here.

• Samplitude Professional for GBP300.00 inc VAT
• Samplitude Classic for GBP150.00 inc VAT
• Samplitude Master for GBP150.00 inc VAT


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10780
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: hifistud2]
      #423115 - 19/02/07 01:39 PM
Quote hifistud2:


In the UK, it's as well for SB that the head honcho for A level Music Tech is so turned on to Cubase.




This is why Steinberg are still in business - while music teachers are still encouraged to use Cubase they will still keep turning out students (maybe like white warrior) who think that Cubase is great and who don't worry about the competition. It doesn't matter how many established musicians are ditching Cubase - there is still a whole new class of purchasers being brainwashed every year.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423137 - 19/02/07 02:09 PM
There was an interesting post on Cubase.net yesterday where the author was saying that Steinberg is not really worried about the "rioting masses" since we are in the minority.

He stated that Steinberg is really focusing on the weekend bedroom punters who don't really get into all the functions of the software, and couldn't tell a compressor from a flanger. These folks don't feel the same pain that the more experienced users do since they only use a very small portion of the features, and don't stress the system at all. They are perfectly happy with CB4, and even if they run into a problem, they don't know it well enough to realize that it was the software's problem and not theirs.

This is the majority of the Cubase target audience according to this guy's speculation.

In order to address this market, they needed to added the more upscale plugins, even if those folks couldn't really tell the difference, it is all about marketing and reputation. These folks probably have very few 3rd party plugins, and need to be able to use the ones that are included.

He went on to say that this was a MUCH larger market than those of us that take things a bit more seriously and frequent the music forums on a daily basis. In fact, they don't even understand what a DX plugin is, much less care that support for them is missing!

These are also the folks, according to the author, that will get bored with the product in a few months to a year, and move onto some other project.

I am not sure that I agree with all of this, but some of it certainly rings true.

Think about this:

It has been 5 months since they had an upgrade to CB4. In fact, there has not been an upgrade since it was released. This is a travesty!!!

There are some faithful Cubasers on their forum that are defending this by saying that Steinberg *must* be planning on releasing a whole bunch of new goodies to the release in addition to all the bug fixes, like 64-bit, side-chaining, group drag-and-drop, more flexible routing, etc.

My response to that is: "THEY HAD BETTER NOT!!!"

They have a program that is severely broken for a lot of folks, and rather than fix the bugs to satisfy their customer base, they are focusing on new features?

I am hoping for Steinberg's sake that this is not the case, although it is hard to understand why it takes 5 months to release a maintenance update unless they were adding something new.

True customer service (in my mind) would be to get something out as soon as possible to fix the major issues that the current user base have been screaming about since the CB4 release, while continuing to work on new features for a future release.

How in good conscience can you leave such a large and vocal customer base hanging like that???

It baffles the mind!

Unless... you buy into the theory proposed by the author of the thread that I paraphrased earlier in this thread, that us "power users" don't matter in the bigger scheme of things, and Steinberg's goal is to please the larger bedroom crowd, and they don't really care if they lose us as customers.

Bad decision if that is what they are thinking.

My response to this guy was that maybe *this* is why they have Nuendo for the "pros". The feature difference for most of us is not enough to justify the difference in price unless you are doing post production, and if the audio engine is the same, it makes sense to stick with Cubase, right? Well, maybe not. The Nuendo product line is considered more up-scale, and is targeted at a different crowd. They won't have Nuendo 4 until 3rd or 4th quarter of this year, and by then, the Cubase "beta testers" will have found most of the show-stopping bugs, and they will be addressed before the N4 release.

So now, to add insult to injury, we are doing all of Steinberg's beta testing... for FREE!!!

It just couldn't get any worse.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
marsnic
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 839
Loc: Southborough, Kent UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Loudbox]
      #423178 - 19/02/07 03:06 PM
Quote Loudbox:

Quote marsnic:



Where did you find this deal and do you know if there is something similar in Europe?

Thanks

Darren




I emailed Magix late last night and got a reply back early this morning from the UK distributer. They are doing the same deal here.

• Samplitude Professional for GBP300.00 inc VAT
• Samplitude Classic for GBP150.00 inc VAT
• Samplitude Master for GBP150.00 inc VAT




That seems quite a lot more than DH paid. US$399 is just over £200 at present rates. Even taking into account local tax, this seems quite a difference. At £300, I stand to save about £8 if I purchase before the end of the month. Am I missing something?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Loudbox
new member


Joined: 10/01/01
Posts: 297
Loc: UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423185 - 19/02/07 03:13 PM
I know. I'm assuming its due to the weak dollar and strong pound. Or it could be that those of us in the UK are being ripped off once again. I'm not sure if UK residents can buy from a US distributer but once the shipping and import duty has been paid then I can't imagine it will work out much cheaper.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423205 - 19/02/07 03:58 PM
Quote:

There was an interesting post on Cubase.net yesterday where the author was saying that Steinberg is not really worried about the "rioting masses" since we are in the minority.

He stated that Steinberg is really focusing on the weekend bedroom punters who don't really get into all the functions of the software, and couldn't tell a compressor from a flanger. These folks don't feel the same pain that the more experienced users do since they only use a very small portion of the features, and don't stress the system at all. They are perfectly happy with CB4, and even if they run into a problem, they don't know it well enough to realize that it was the software's problem and not theirs.

This is the majority of the Cubase target audience according to this guy's speculation. Etc...




Some time ago on the Cubase net I did propose a poll based on my suggestion that the Cubase complainers didn't matter because a: There were'nt enough of them or b: That Steinberg were in trouble.
There were rather a lot of them. I didn't seem to have the problems they were getting probably because I build my own computers as some Pro's reported bad problems on even very high end SOS advertised superdupercomputers. Even taking into account self inflicted system instability any self respecting company would be at least as informative as to reassure any other worried customers that their product was, in the main, stable and not to listen to the wailing.
Steinberg are great at the design and features stages but rarely seem to release a product that is universally
"finished". Afer 4 years of developement Vista ambushed them so completely they dropped everything they had. It's as though they'd never heard of it before November. I think it's this that has everyone on edge at the moment. In case Steinberg don't know it's called customer uncertainty. If you don't fix it soon with something rather handsome & bug free from the off then some will have spent their 3 yearly "Steinberg money" on a competing product.
I see they've thrown poor Steve Parker to the lions again. I think I'll give him a break. HAND

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12442
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #423244 - 19/02/07 05:17 PM
Quote tex:

I see they've thrown poor Steve Parker to the lions again. I think I'll give him a break. HAND




I said earlier that it's a shame that Steinberg have got so many people angry, as Arbiter in the UK have always been very helpful.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: John Willett]
      #423391 - 19/02/07 09:52 PM
Quote John Willett:

Quote tex:

I see they've thrown poor Steve Parker to the lions again. I think I'll give him a break. HAND




I said earlier that it's a shame that Steinberg have got so many people angry, as Arbiter in the UK have always been very helpful.




I'd have more sympathy for Arbiter if they made it amply clear on their web site that DX is no longer supported. Given the infamous reluctance of Steinberg to refund a purchase, widely discussed on Cubase.net, this strikes me as willfully misleading advertising, and says something about the company doing it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: S G H Houbart]
      #423524 - 20/02/07 05:11 AM
Quote S G H Houbart:

Quote John Willett:

Quote tex:

I see they've thrown poor Steve Parker to the lions again. I think I'll give him a break. HAND




I said earlier that it's a shame that Steinberg have got so many people angry, as Arbiter in the UK have always been very helpful.




I'd have more sympathy for Arbiter if they made it amply clear on their web site that DX is no longer supported. Given the infamous reluctance of Steinberg to refund a purchase, widely discussed on Cubase.net, this strikes me as willfully misleading advertising, and says something about the company doing it.




To be fair I do believe that at the Cubase4 launch that it could be sent back for a refund if the purchaser was not happy (even if it had been opened?!). I do not recall the time limit if there was one and again, to balance, I cannot recall when the DX announcement was made exactly and if it affected anyones choice to return C4 or not.
I may be corrected on this but you're right in essence in that things could be made a lot clearer and more transparent for the customer. There is too much muddy water.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #423534 - 20/02/07 07:19 AM
Quote tex:


To be fair I do believe that at the Cubase4 launch that it could be sent back for a refund if the purchaser was not happy (even if it had been opened?!).




Good.

Regardless of the refund policy, a purchaser should be told the product does not support DX BEFORE paying for it. That's the essence of the problem with its removal. That Arbiter continues to sell units knowing that the issue is certain to result in refund requests and that people are buying it in ignorance is acting in grossly bad faith. It makes the hole deeper.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423551 - 20/02/07 08:39 AM
Next you will be suggesting that they need to tell you if your 'old' plugins are unsupported, or that newer plugins can't be ported successfully, or that the new version will overwrite you settings from your previous version, or that you won't be able to open legacy projects, or that the software is full of bugs, or ....

(You get the idea .... )

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #423567 - 20/02/07 09:15 AM
Quote Dave B:

Next you will be suggesting that they need to tell you if your 'old' plugins are unsupported, or that newer plugins can't be ported successfully, or that the new version will overwrite you settings from your previous version, or that you won't be able to open legacy projects, or that the software is full of bugs, or ....

(You get the idea .... )




On the basis of this argument sellers of a car which comes uniquely with no wheels do not have to advertise that fact.

All other DAWs on the PC universally support DX.

All previous versions of Cubase on the PC supported DX.

Steinberg have made no effort whatsoever to inform purchasers of this change other than a sticky on a non-support forum.

The expectation that an audio host application will support DX on a PC is not unusual, minority or arbitrary. The removal of DX support by Steinberg is all of these things.

That so many people have complained of this at Cubase.net, and that at least some customers in the US complain of having been refused refunds, indicates the scale of the problem.

The point you have raised is at best facile, and runs contrary to obvious honesty and common sense.

Arbiter and all other distributors should state, even in a footnote marked "beware of the leopard" that this host uniquely in the market, and contrary to all prior versions does not support DX.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423580 - 20/02/07 09:34 AM
Dude ... you're missing the point here .... take a deep breath, count to ten and re-read my post .... I'm not necessarily being serious .....



--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423726 - 20/02/07 01:03 PM
Quote:

To be fair I do believe that at the Cubase4 launch that it could be sent back for a refund if the purchaser was not happy (even if it had been opened?!). I do not recall the time limit if there was one and again, to balance, I cannot recall when the DX announcement was made exactly and if it affected anyones choice to return C4 or not.





This is a local distributor decision I do believe. Read this thread that I started about this subject with the US distributor:



Steinberg Service


Also, I think it was about 2 weeks after the release of CB 4 that Steinberg "fessed up" officially about the dropping of DX support.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Stephen Parker



Joined: 28/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423733 - 20/02/07 01:08 PM
Hi - there are arguments both ways about what needs to be put online regarding what formats are and are not supported. I'll speak to our web guys about the DX note as this may need to be treated differently to other compatibility notes such as MAC OS X.x, etc.

My thought is that the DX format is dying, Steinberg have VST as an open source (VST 3 excepted at the moment) format and have no obligation to provide DX support - I will agree however that this needs to be made clearer.

I'm not particularly happy about the comments that anyone has been deliberately misled, but I will look at what our site states.

Anyway, as I said before, please come by at Sounds Expo and have a chat - I hope I'm not going to have to set up an arm wrestling table etc, but will get a little exercise in just in case..

Cheers

Steve Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Stephen Parker



Joined: 28/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #423833 - 20/02/07 04:07 PM
Hi - we've added a note on our site regarding DX support:

http://www.arbiter.co.uk/steinberg/online_shop_steinberg_upgrades.htm< br />
There's also a further link to a couple of wrappers that we've suggested.

Cheers

Steve Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Stephen Parker]
      #423885 - 20/02/07 06:07 PM
Quote Stephen Parker:

Hi - we've added a note on our site regarding DX support:

http://www.arbiter.co.uk/steinberg/online_shop_steinberg_upgrades.htm< br />
There's also a further link to a couple of wrappers that we've suggested.

Cheers

Steve Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd




Hero.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
hifistud2



Joined: 12/02/06
Posts: 795
Loc: Near Sunderland, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: S G H Houbart]
      #424031 - 21/02/07 12:11 AM
Hero maybe - but the blurb still doesn't say that the wrappers won't allow older projects to be loaded transparently.
This is the crux of the matter - a complete lack of compatibility with older projects. Why can't Steinberg take a leaf from Microsoft's book and maintain compatibility, either via an import/export or by simply reading in older format files and doing the conversion on the fly?
From a technical standpoint, it's not that hard, especially with the SX2 and later file format, which is based on a format that was designed to make it easy to maintain forward (and backward) compatibility.
However, rather than consider the professional user (and the serious hobbyist), Steinberg seems rather more keen on devoting resources to implementing more and more bizarre copy protection code and dongle calls than producing something that is genuinely useful and compatibility-maintaining.
For instance, the artificial incompatibility between SX and SE makes it difficult for schools to suggest that their pupils actually buy Cubase, unless the school itself wishes to standardise on SE - else any work done in SX or SL at school cannot easily be ported to SE at home (at least not without the use of SLEX, the utility that removes the artificial incompatibility). It's even worse if the pupil has LE at home.
Even Wordpad (which comes free with Windows) will open a Word document.
Bottom line, for me, is that Steinberg comes across as a money-grabbing company that cares little for its customers, if at all, and is basically dishonest in its dealings with them. That cannot be recipe for continued success.

--------------------
[url=http://www.facebook.com/pages/hifi-studios/117322741632389[/url]


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Glenn Bucci
active member


Joined: 28/10/02
Posts: 1229
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #424059 - 21/02/07 01:43 AM
I won't reply about Steinberg anyomore on this thread. I think it's all been said...more than twice. It's time to move on. By the way, I have told you how happy I am with Sampltiude?

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
neonknight



Joined: 26/10/04
Posts: 395
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Dave B]
      #424093 - 21/02/07 08:50 AM
this is where Steinberg's money is

http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2007/Steinberg-Internal-Mixing-DVD.ht ml

instead of hiring programmers to fix the application, they do this..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Stephen Parker



Joined: 28/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #424105 - 21/02/07 09:16 AM
A tutorial DVD made by an outside company?

I think we can safely say that Steinberg are well aware of the issues, and are working on solving the problems people are facing right now.

Cheers

Steve Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group Ltd


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Stephen Parker]
      #424179 - 21/02/07 11:33 AM
Quote Stephen Parker:


I think we can safely say that Steinberg are well aware of the issues, and are working on solving the problems people are facing right now.





I don’t think we can safely say anything of the sort.

http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=66831&start=50

We can safely say that the problems people are facing right now include unexpected dropping of industry standard features, unexpected abandonment of previously bought products including expensive software hardware, and the breaking of promises made the company.

We cannot safely say *anything* about Steinberg as any commitment the company may make is subject to summary refutation without warning or adequate explanation.

We cannot safely say going forward that the required bug fixes to C4 will be either delivered or delivered free of cost.

We cannot safely say going forward that the next update will not be so commingled with arbitrary new features as to require another payment to Steinberg.

We cannot safely say that the company will be trading for another year, as a consequence of all the other things we cannot safely say.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #424234 - 21/02/07 01:29 PM
Quote:

We cannot safely say that the company will be trading for another year, as a consequence of all the other things we cannot safely say.




Certain mods on another forum have proved that without a doubt. Mini is one thing you cannot safely say.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #424242 - 21/02/07 01:58 PM
Quote tex:

Quote:

We cannot safely say that the company will be trading for another year, as a consequence of all the other things we cannot safely say.




Certain mods on another forum have proved that without a doubt. Mini is one thing you cannot safely say.






This is really a shame. I am pretty ticked off at Steinberg, but this is something that I would never wish on anyone.

Think about all they have brought to the market: VST, ASIO...

Let's hope that they get their act together instead.

With the installed base that they have, I can't imagine that they would just go under. Maybe another buy-out?

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #424252 - 21/02/07 02:10 PM
DH, I think you'll find Tex was being sarcastic... The reference was that comments about them ceasing trading or being in trouble were removed / locked by moderators on other forums.

Considering Steinberg are in rude health with a massively expanding userbase, I don't think there's any danger of them popping their clogs any time soon. Cubase is but one chunk of their market.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: redleicester]
      #424262 - 21/02/07 02:17 PM
Quote redleicester:

DH, I think you'll find Tex was being sarcastic... The reference was that comments about them ceasing trading or being in trouble were removed / locked by moderators on other forums.





Ahhh... got it! Thanks for that! It's still morning here in the States, and I am in need of another cup of coffee...

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Virtuoso
member


Joined: 15/07/03
Posts: 183
Loc: Seattle
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #424294 - 21/02/07 03:38 PM
I have been a Cubase user for about 15 years and am alarmed that Steinberg seem to have taken a major tumble lately.

The quality of final releases, the blinkered attitude to the needs of their user base, failure to honour commitments to finish previous bugged releases, failure to deliver promised 64 bit versions, ceasing of support for key hardware...

The features users have been clamouring for for years are still only half-implemented, or are cripplingly bugged (sidechaining, draggable inserts etc). The apparently limited resources have instead been spent on random features that nobody particularly wanted or needed.

For things to get this bad, I can only think there must have been a haemorrhaging of key staff following the Yamaha or even the Pinnacle takeovers?

SX3 was probably my last purchase from Steinberg and I will be looking elsewhere for its successor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #424309 - 21/02/07 04:05 PM
Quote:

failure to deliver promised 64 bit versions, ceasing of support for key hardware...




Strange one this as before Christmas some posters suggested that 64 bit wasn't necessarily all that much of a good thing. I tended to go along with that on the "if it ain't broke.." supposition. But if it's not such a big deal why did Steinberg go full tilt at it so suddenly? Maybe Sonar hit their panic buttons? One gets the impression that they're still cleaning the coffee off the monitors.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Stevedog



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 3002
Loc: Mercia
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #424310 - 21/02/07 04:06 PM
If i were Yamaha... I'd be gently guiding Steinberg towards a position, where bye, it becomes locked to Yamaha hardware ala ProTools... It might stink, but hey, you can understand why they would do it...

--------------------
nibbled to death by an Okapi http://www.soundclick.com/tubilahdog


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Stevedog]
      #424316 - 21/02/07 04:27 PM
Quote Stevedog:

If i were Yamaha... I'd be gently guiding Steinberg towards a position, where bye, it becomes locked to Yamaha hardware ala ProTools... It might stink, but hey, you can understand why they would do it...




Ah! A Yamaha superdongle.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
thedomus
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 456
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #424381 - 21/02/07 06:28 PM
Quote tex:

Quote:

failure to deliver promised 64 bit versions, ceasing of support for key hardware...




Strange one this as before Christmas some posters suggested that 64 bit wasn't necessarily all that much of a good thing. I tended to go along with that on the "if it ain't broke.." supposition. But if it's not such a big deal why did Steinberg go full tilt at it so suddenly? Maybe Sonar hit their panic buttons? One gets the impression that they're still cleaning the coffee off the monitors.




On a Mac running the future OSX Leopard 64bit in Logic will mean access to 16GB of RAM, not the current limit of 2GB. So all those RAM thirsty plug-ins like Orchestral libraries and Spectrasonics banks in Stylus and Atmosphere will have plenty of room, and Logic won't crash when you load one bank too many!
Vista will have the same advantage when developers catch up.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: thedomus]
      #424391 - 21/02/07 07:09 PM
Quote thedomus:

Quote tex:

Quote:

failure to deliver promised 64 bit versions, ceasing of support for key hardware...




Strange one this as before Christmas some posters suggested that 64 bit wasn't necessarily all that much of a good thing. I tended to go along with that on the "if it ain't broke.." supposition. But if it's not such a big deal why did Steinberg go full tilt at it so suddenly? Maybe Sonar hit their panic buttons? One gets the impression that they're still cleaning the coffee off the monitors.




On a Mac running the future OSX Leopard 64bit in Logic will mean access to 16GB of RAM, not the current limit of 2GB. So all those RAM thirsty plug-ins like Orchestral libraries and Spectrasonics banks in Stylus and Atmosphere will have plenty of room, and Logic won't crash when you load one bank too many!
Vista will have the same advantage when developers catch up.




That wasn't a mystery to me. The mystery was that Steinberg seemed very cool towards the 64 bit OS then suddenly dropped half of it's current mainline product as though the 32bit platform was as dead as the Dragon (computer).
ie: No "This what we'e going to do." More like "We've done it now it's all change."
They'll invent new maga libraries to eat up all that extra memory. You watch. They've done it before and they'll do it again. And you'll buy it.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
ASG
member


Joined: 20/01/03
Posts: 302
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #424434 - 21/02/07 08:41 PM
Reading between the lines and assuming the information given by Eckhard and Christian on Cubase.Net is correct (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), some of the problems Steinberg are having may relate to they way they developed products in the past using third-party developers like Wizoo, Spectral Designs and FX Expansion to develop plugins (click on the names of the plugins to see the credits).

Eckhard mentioned in the case of the Wizoo products like Hypersonic (and presumably SX3 plugins like Embracer, Monologue and Tonic) the ownership remained with Wizoo so Steinberg can't upgrade them. If this is the case with other developers and those developers are now unavailable the plugins can't be updated (like Quadrafuzz).


Quote from Eckhard Doll on Cubase.net Hypersonic/Xphraze forum

Quote:

We would have loved to release further updates to all Wizoo plug-ins but since Avid/Digidesign bought Wizoo early last year (if I remember correctly) we had to face several changes and new contracts. Wizoo (now Digidesign) owns the name Hypersonic and we are not allowed to release other software and new versions under that name. The same soon applies to the source code. We are currently planning to release a Hypersonic universal binary update for all Mac Intel users and it looks very good that we can push it through. Please be patient for the official announcement! All I can say is that we never planned to ditch the product, it was simply taken away from us.





It's just a theory but I think rather than face another Wizoo situation, they've brought everything in-house and underestimated the workload involved. Interestingly the new Cubase 4 plugins don't show credits (or at least I can't find them), suggesting they MAY have been developed in-house.

Similarly, Midex was a third party product badged as Steinberg. Although it's not being updated because Vista 64 doesn't support DirectMusic which is required for LTB.

Obviously a big part of the problem is bad communication, but perhaps bad management of sub-contractor relationships is the crux of the problem.


Regards, Andrew


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Wurlitzer
Active member


Joined: 11/12/02
Posts: 3341
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #424458 - 21/02/07 09:43 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Quote E-Keys:

Several questions and observations:

1. Do you think Steinberg is surprised at how apparently wide spread the reaction to their decisions would be?




No, I honestly don't think they are concerned one bit. They are so cocky, and think that they have the world wrapped up in the little pocket. They have so many customers, they are acting like "good riddance to the whiners".

Too many folks are scared to change, or as has been mentioned, there are not a lot of choices in the PC world, so they feel that they have a lock.




Wow, deja vu.

I remember having this very same conversation on the Cubase forum about VST 5. I was like, "what IS this, with the buggy releases and the updates that only seem to replace the bugs with even more bugs?" And everyone was convinced that, even though they hated Cubase for the downtime it imposed on their studios, and hated Steinberg for treating them like a big joke, they couldn't possible change their choice of software because they "had too much invested" in the program. Bizarre - and these were mostly Americans, whom you'd think would understand the power of the free market.

So my wife bought me Sonar for Christmas and I've never looked back.

Yet some things never change. I can't help wondering if two guys right at the top of Steinberg have some kind of wierd bet going, where one is forever daring the other one to see how far he can push their customers before they just do what the customers in any other industry do. And then every day at 5.00 they go down the pub and have a laugh about it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dima
member


Joined: 04/06/03
Posts: 35
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: tex]
      #424597 - 22/02/07 07:55 AM
Quote tex:

To be fair I do believe that at the Cubase4 launch that it could be sent back for a refund if the purchaser was not happy (even if it had been opened?!).




At least there's a possibility for a C4 upgrade. What about the rest of us who didn't upgrade? Admit it, SX3 is a boat anchor!

I hope there's a lawyer among the "weekend warrior" Cubase users who can spell a Class Action Lawsuit. I've often been against those as I thought they only made lawyers richer. Not this time. I think Steinberg must compensate their users for the broken product, lack of customer support, and a broken promise of remediation.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5648
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: ASG]
      #424611 - 22/02/07 09:00 AM
Quote ASG:

Similarly, Midex was a third party product badged as Steinberg. Although it's not being updated because Vista 64 doesn't support DirectMusic which is required for LTB.




If that's the case, then at least provide a decent driver so that the unit can still be used. It is still a damned fine interface and works quite fast (maybe not razor sharp as with LTB) on it's own according to the tests I made a while back. It's the abandonment that I take offence at. Ditto the Houston.

If they want a get out clause, then they could point to Apple who have stopped supporting the equivalent of LTB on the AMT8 - CoreMidi doesn't work that way anymore and Logic is now CoreMidi based. That's a bugger, but at least the AMT8 is still a viable unit for the Mac. At the moment, the only OS that is supported for the Midex is XP. That's just plain ridiculous! I can't even switch to a Mac....

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
PaulD



Joined: 04/01/03
Posts: 1270
Loc: Bristol UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #424749 - 22/02/07 12:09 PM
Hi
'Old Moore's Almanack' Law - every 18 months the amount of computer kit that you have to junk as obsolete inceases exponentially.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Virtuoso
member


Joined: 15/07/03
Posts: 183
Loc: Seattle
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #425118 - 23/02/07 12:01 AM
Now they've officially closed the book on SX3 it's clear we have been waiting in vain for the things they originally promised back in 2004.

http://www.soundonsound.com/news&NewsID=7148

I'd rather gnaw my leg off than wade through the steaming pile of legalese that makes up a modern licence agreement, but I'm presuming it absolves Steinberg of any responsibility for delivering a quality product that performs as advertised and that we as consumers piss away any reasonable rights the moment we open the box?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Keef



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Virtuoso]
      #425137 - 23/02/07 01:07 AM
Quote Virtuoso:

Now they've officially closed the book on SX3 it's clear we have been waiting in vain for the things they originally promised back in 2004.

http://www.soundonsound.com/news&NewsID=7148

I'd rather gnaw my leg off than wade through the steaming pile of legalese that makes up a modern licence agreement, but I'm presuming it absolves Steinberg of any responsibility for delivering a quality product that performs as advertised and that we as consumers piss away any reasonable rights the moment we open the box?




This is one of the main reasons why I switched to Sampltiude. I really don't care about no DX. But the customer service, not keeping promises... I just had it. There is life after Cubase. Samplitude has certain querks about it (compared to Cubase which has a nicer work flow on a couple of things), but they listen to their users. 9.1 is coming out in March and is suppose to address some of the concerns many on their forums have talked about. But even in it's current version, I like it better than Cubase.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #425405 - 23/02/07 02:35 PM
Yeah, I have to agree with Keef here. Samplitude is nice in a lot of ways, but there are some very nice things in Cubase that I miss as well.

But at this point, I do not regret for one minute bailing out and moving to Samplitude.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Virtuoso]
      #425513 - 23/02/07 05:27 PM
Quote Virtuoso:

Now they've officially closed the book on SX3 it's clear we have been waiting in vain for the things they originally promised back in 2004.

http://www.soundonsound.com/news&NewsID=7148

I'd rather gnaw my leg off than wade through the steaming pile of legalese that makes up a modern licence agreement, but I'm presuming it absolves Steinberg of any responsibility for delivering a quality product that performs as advertised and that we as consumers piss away any reasonable rights the moment we open the box?




Actually, combined with existing consumer laws, all EULAs are illegal without large notice telling the customer to read it BEFORE they purchase the product. It's restrictive on the buyer. They should also be fair (not one sided) and also not overly complex or restrictive to the buyer. After all we all know the EULA of a beefburger. Software shouldn't be that different now that it's had 50 years to mature and get itself self protected without the need of a record contract sized pile of dodgy legalese written by the office boy in his lunch hour for an extra fiver which is what most of them look like if you actually try reading one.
Eula's should also protect the customer from unsupportive software houses.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Butters
member


Joined: 21/10/02
Posts: 123
Loc: Herts UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #425554 - 23/02/07 06:35 PM
With respect to jumping ship to another DAW:-
does anyone know if you can import a CUBASE 4 project into another DAW. I'm 1/2 way through a project with mainly audio (and crossfaded sections)I wouldn't like to lose all the work I've recorded. I'm not worried about he midi parts or the plug in compatibility issues.

--------------------
"A young man's tattoo, becomes an old man's graffiti" - Image Is Everything
Peter Cyriax PaQ ultra quiet PC system, with some DAW software


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
G-Doubleyou



Joined: 10/02/06
Posts: 1450
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Butters]
      #425665 - 23/02/07 11:06 PM
Quote Butters:

With respect to jumping ship to another DAW:-
does anyone know if you can import a CUBASE 4 project into another DAW. I'm 1/2 way through a project with mainly audio (and crossfaded sections)I wouldn't like to lose all the work I've recorded. I'm not worried about he midi parts or the plug in compatibility issues.




You could try an OMF export.

--------------------
G-Dub
Studio G-fx 15inch quad-core i7 Macbook Pro Logic9.1.8, LPX 10.0.3


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
numnutz



Joined: 23/02/07
Posts: 15
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #425768 - 24/02/07 12:50 PM
Num here. Some of you know me from cubase.net.

I’ve been using Cubase since VST 3.x, and been a denizen of Steinberg’s forums for several years (over 3 incarnations of the forum). I’ve posted as numnutz over there.

I usually ran a little behind other folks by one major upgrade. At first it was due to money, but when SX1 came out (with the famous poof! feature), I decided to let others work out the bugs before I jumped aboard.

So, I was getting ready to buy SX3 when Steiny let loose that DX support was dropped as of now, today, and here on Cubase 4. There was no previous warning at all. The application was out in the wild and after the fact did they acknowledge this fact. They waited nearly a week after a huge thread was posted in their support forum (HA HA! We don’t have a support forum!). The silence was deafening. Perhaps it was a holiday. Perhaps they were hammered with ale. It doesn’t matter, does it. They should have disclosed this plan at the SX3 stage. They knew they were dropping this support.

Now, they say they are dropping DX because of something to do with Windows. Though I am technically minded, I never researched their reasons because other companies continue DX support. I have to ask why can one company do this and the other not (or claim to not be able to) do so?

I really only use one DX plug, so it doesn’t really have an impact, other than the precedent this sets. Yes, today it’s DX support. With the advent of SX1 from VST5 it was the dropping of the mono button, and (for me) no more syncing of my ADATs with Cubase (had worked just fine with VST5). Mixermaps, dynamic events, blah blah blah. It started to add up in my mind. Steiny was just looking for a yearly tithe without actually carrying forth previous functionality. Yes, this is horrific to my thinking, but the dropping of DX support means the end of backward compatibility for many users. Again, not so much of an issue for me, but what gets dropped next, aftertouch? Midi? 16 bit audio?

More importantly, how do they handle this? Nothing. They just let the users drift in the wind. There was no warning, as in a statement akin to “with this release, SX3, this is the end of DX support”. There was no warning with the release of C4. Only after C4 was released, and only after users raised a hue and cry did Steiny come back from their vacations and say “Oh yeah, there is no more DX support, enacted immediately”.

Other Broken Promises:

    There was supposed to be a final release for SX3. After keeping the users in the wind for nearly a year, the promised release is canceled. canceled, because Steiny didn’t allocate their resources wisely. Their problem, but they penalize the users. Why? Because they can. They are a faceless entity in a foreign (to me) country that have purposely isolated themselves from their users.

    64 bit windows has been planned for years. Years. Everyone knew this as late as 2002. Yet, Steiny are not writing 64 bit drivers for the Midex, their own product!

    Steinberg/Spectral Designs Mastering Edition. canceled. No more.

    Steinberg Voice Machine. canceled. No more.


The lost features/functionality over the course of time, the broken promises, and the outright lies are just too much to bear. I do not trust them as far as I can throw the internet. To me, Steinberg and Yamaha are dead. I’ll probably never send another penny to either company. I’ll certainly look at them last (if at all) for any hardware or software.

Num

ps As a US user, I’ve never had to deal with Arbiter, but I will tell you that Steven Parker is the only person from any distributor that I can recall ever taking the time to interact with users on the Cnet forums. Though Steiny is faceless, Steven has been a lightening rod (rightly or wrongly), and I continue to hold respect for him due to this.

--------------------
Num


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Lodious
member


Joined: 15/10/02
Posts: 593
Loc: East Midlands, UK
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: numnutz]
      #425777 - 24/02/07 01:18 PM
Agreed, Steven is the one and only thing that's good about Arbiter. In my experience, everything else about Arbiter has been totally useless.

Quote numnutz:

ps As a US user, I’ve never had to deal with Arbiter, but I will tell you that Steven Parker is the only person from any distributor that I can recall ever taking the time to interact with users on the Cnet forums. Though Steiny is faceless, Steven has been a lightening rod (rightly or wrongly), and I continue to hold respect for him due to this.




--------------------
I like people, it's my friends I can't stand - Larry David.
http://www.myspace.com/lodious


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #425806 - 24/02/07 03:18 PM
Hey Numnutz!!! Welcome to the SOS forum!!! You'll love it here!

Like Numnutz, I have been with Cubase forever (or even *before*!!! ), and as I have posted several times in this thread, I have jumped ship to Samplitude.

Are things all rosy over here now? Not exactly. I am having a few issues with a couple of my plugins (PSP42 and PSP84), but the difference is that Magix is working to help me fix my issues! Wow! What a concept! I actually get to communicate with the developers to work through issues, and they are very receptive to suggestions for improvements to the product (I created a long wish list for their Mackie Control implementation, for example).

The biggest hurdle when switching platforms is being able to keep an open mind and realize that there is a paradigm switch that you need to come to grips with. Things are not going to work exactly as you expect them to, and some small changes are going to have to be made in your workflow and processes. Get used to it! Embrace it!

There are so many cool things about the new Samplitude that never existed in Cubase, and I am quite excited. There are also some things in Samplitude that are not as cool as they were in Cubase. It is to be expected.

As long as I can get my issues worked out with some of these plugins, I am going to be a very happy Samplitude user. If not, maybe I will take a hard and serious look at Reaper (I keep threatening to do that!!!). Either way, I am done with all the shenanigans that Steinberg pulls. I want to be treated with respect.

Goodbye Steinberg.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
numnutz



Joined: 23/02/07
Posts: 15
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #425818 - 24/02/07 03:56 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Hey Numnutz!!! Welcome to the SOS forum!!! You'll love it here!




(wakes up from dream) And I saw you, and you, and you!

Thanks for the welcome Doublehelix. I'll lurk here and there.

--------------------
Num


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
Posts: 1125
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #425823 - 24/02/07 04:11 PM
Hello Num. Have you tried Reaper yet? If you haven't, watch the space. http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

It's very interesting.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
numnutz



Joined: 23/02/07
Posts: 15
Re: Steinberg getting Cubase users angry new [Re: Keef]
      #425840 - 24/02/07 04:53 PM
Hi Tex. No, I have not yet tried it, but I do plan to do so. Absolutely.

--------------------
Num


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
1 registered and 24 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Forum Admin, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor,  
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating: ***
Thread views: 42817

October 2014
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for October 2014
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media