Quote doublehelix:

---

One thing that seems to be missing is cooperation from Universal Audio with their UAD-1 card. There seem to be some issues there, which is a bummer since I use those plugs extensively (I have 3 cards in a Magma chassis).

---

Well, there was a new relaease today to v1.77 in fact:

* big clock: fix for completely offscreen on startup
* navigator: shows custom track colors, bettervertically shrunk views
* dx/vst: denormal reduction improvements
* vst: optional UAD-1 no-flush mode (prefs/VST) to help avoid munch
* midi editor: CCs show 0/centered events
* midi editor: display for PC shows 1-128
* midi editor: doubleclicking scrollbars zoom out
* midi editor: numpad keys move events when not in step sequencer mode
* midi editor: midi CC moving with events only moves CCs on same channel as events

It would seem that this Justin is on the case! Perhaps that UAD1 fix above will help?

@ScottDru:: You can look at my colur prefs here . Think you have to tick all the little boxes at the top (the one about the buttons isn't marked by default).

Just been checking it out some more..incredibly fast boot-up time (10 secs), and just loads of little features that make me think - why is this possible and I haven't seen it before even though I've shelled out a few hundred quid for steinberg stuff?

I'm going to download the manual and run a project through this baby and if it checks out, this Justin guy can have my money, even though I probably won't get what it costs from selling my copy of C4 studio

I like Double Helix have used Cubase for ages, learnt on VST 5 at age 16 and have never really looked back.

I ain't going to touch Cubase 4 with this stunt though and having been checking the Reaper site each week it really is looking very good.

I also love the way it just says "if you move over to commercial use just give us your details and pay the difference between the non commercial and the commercial". It just seems like the proper way to do it. No penalising a customer for not being commercial and then suddenly being able to make money.

For £21 and having updates till 1.99 and that 2.00 wont be coming out till Autumn, think its going to be my next stop for sequencing!.

Scott thanks for all the info you have posted as well, should email the guy who created Reaper and show him how your converting users

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky

Quote Henry-S:

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I ain't going to touch Cubase 4 with this stunt though

---

It would seem that it's more like a cunning array of stunts innit.


--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Hmmm . . . already reports coming in that the UAD-1 cards are now working with no problems ( REAPER Forum UAD-1 thread). Time will tell if the fix works for all mobo chipsets. From the sounds of it, a large part of the problem is UAD's own issues, with the DAW programmers having to find workarounds.

Somebody apparently sent Justin their UAD-1 card to work with.

As I said . . . this guy isn't sleeping on stuff. If for no other reason than to see how things COULD be . . . fascinating to watch.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Having used this for a little this evening, I am really starting to like it.

I am a little scared because all of my projects are in Cubase but I suppose wouldn't be a huge hassle having to move them.

EZDrummer isn't liking reaper so far, but I think an autodetect might sort it out, as it loads up the interface but its blank (and looking on the reaper forum seems as though a redetect or reinstall will sort it).

One bug I am having is the whole "direct x" vst's. If I have Direct X plugins enabled (none) then when I click on the button it comes up asking to add Direct X plugins and there is no way out of the menu. I have to ctrl-alt-del and kill the app. For the moment I have disabled the checking of Direct-X vst-e's and hopefully get it sorted at a later date.

The UI is good but I do agree it could look a little more attractive, but if your going on the non commercial license for £21 this is pretty dang good!

Will be playing with it more later on

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky

Edited by Henry-S (05/02/07 07:09 PM)

Quote:

---

Likewise, when the big record companies force loads of bullsh*t cookie cutter, throwaway music down the throats of the market, and at the same time push truly talented and interesting artists out of the market, it devalues music as a saleable product. If people find music that they know they will want to keep and listen to over and over for years, they will go out and buy the CD. But if they just want to be able to listen to the current ear candy that they will only tire of when the next new bit of ear candy comes out, they'll download it -- and if there is an option download it for free, then unfortunately many people will go for the free option.

---

Nothing really to do with the topic at hand, but I thought this needed repeating. Sadly true of much modern goods - built in obselescence, so no real value attached to it by the buyer...

Quote:

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Someday, SOS will probably even publish a monthly technical article called "Reaper Notes"!

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That would surely sound SOS's death knell

/coat

Quote Blueberry:

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I have tried Sonar, and ..... All these small box icons on top that you really can't see well. They are too small to figure out what they are. You have to put your mouse over each icon to know what it does. And there is like 20 of them across the screen. Yes Cubase and Samplitude has icons put they are much bigger and you can figure out what they are jut by looking at the picture.

---

Ha ha! When I first tried Cubase back in the Atari days it took me ages to even figure out how to SEE the little floating box full of tools and the arcane icons gave very little clue to a novice as to what their actual function was.
Unfortunately all my subsequent dealings with Cubase were colored by that experience , to the extent that I have always thought of it as a bit amateurish!
I think they just proved this by the way in which the remains of the company are dealing with their customer base since the Yamaha takeover.

Amazingly, the authors of MY sequencer of choice (Bars `n Pipes Pro on the Amiga) have just resurfaced after many years working for Bloody Bill Gates and started making noises like they are considering a PC or Mac version of an updated BP Pro.
Now IF it happens, you guys better get ready to re-think your software choice and I will be right royally ticked off, having finally just sprung for Sonar and started learning it...

--------------------
Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!

So, if you're a mac user......
Is it just cubase and logic?
Like others here, I've been a cubase since pro-24 on an atari.
When I evetually moved from VST last year to SL3 I did look at Logic and DP.
But at that time because I didn't fancy learning another program from scratch, and also no one else seems to have a proper drum edit page, I stuck with Cubase.
I'm not inpressed with Stingyberg's dropping of SL3 (& SX3) and their dropping of Midex support with a "not sure what we're going to do" annpouncement.
I'll probably still use it because it's only a hobby for me, not a profession.
It's interersting to see what you guys are looking at as alternatives, but if any mac users find other stuff, let us know too!

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.

Quote IvanSC:

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Ha ha! When I first tried Cubase back in the Atari days it took me ages to even figure out how to SEE the little floating box full of tools and the arcane icons gave very little clue to a novice as to what their actual function was.

---

I've been using Cubase since SX 2 and I can assure you all those tiny icons are stil there. I never got used to them. Somebody already suggested there's something wrong with my setup, perhaps there's also something wrong with my brain but sorry, Steinberg UI always felt unmanageable to me.

When I tried Sonar 6 demo I had no issues with any of the icons. Somehow everything was clear right from the start. Ok, the visuals could've been made a little slicker and hi-tech... but I felt I could jump in and work it right away.

I am sorry to say that the screen shot of @reaper@ looks horrendous, If you think that looks good or is easy on the eye
you need an eye test real soon.

Man of style, you obviously haven't even looked at the skins then?

If you bother to go onto the forum and look into the color themes and icon sets you can actually see how custom the application can become.

This just isn't possible in things like Cubase or Logic or Sonar.

So i respect your comments that maybe in its "basic" form that its not amazing eye candy, but give it a couple more months and looking at some of the skins people have done on the website, looks pretty good to me

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky

Hey Guys, maybe someone should start an I heart Reaper thread.
I did some midi recording with it today and I found some realy neat features that realy surprised me.
But it's so waaaay of tooopic it's starting to hurt

Quote Koed:

---

Hey Guys, maybe someone should start an I heart Reaper thread.
I did some midi recording with it today and I found some realy neat features that realy surprised me.
But it's so waaaay of tooopic it's starting to hurt

---

Since Reaper is an alternative to Cubase, I think it's right on the ball. But I'd love to hear more about alternatives to Cubase other than Reaper too.

Quote Loudbox:

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Sorry, I've posted a similar comment elsewhere. I'm a long time Cubase user (back on Atari with Pro24). I've used it virtually every day for the past 12 years. So a move to any other platform is going to be tricky. I've tried the demos of both Samplitude and Sonar and just can't seem to get into them at all. Is this because Cubase is better or more likely that I'm so used to Cubase that I just can't see beyond the different interface and gui.

I know that in principle I should look for an alternative to Steinberg due to the shocking way they have treated loyal customers over the years. However, Cubase 4 offers me an application that I'm familiar with and new features that will be very handy. Whether they work or not remains to be seen!

---

I also tried out Sonar and Samplitude. Samplitude works more straight forward to me over Sonar. Both howver are great programs. It took several hours on the demo to get comfortable with Samplitude and I read parts of the manual that is on their web site under the demo page. Now it feels very comfortable and I really enjoy using it. Even DAW though is not the best for everyone. You have to choose a program that you feel comfortable with and meets your needs.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com

In talking to some about Cubase, one of the things that was annyoing is when you save a song onto a CD or DVD. When you put the song back into Cubase, it has all your takes of each voice and instrument on a different tracks due to the Batch export in Cubase. I was told this was not fixed in Cubase 4.

I called Samplitude and they told me we have the option of having it in batch or to have it put your takes of (whatever) all on one track. Well that did it for me, I told them to send me Sampltiude for the $399. That's the full version mind you. I was also told that they have version 9.02 out already and many improvements have been included in midi and additional things that people wanted. Very cool. Can't wait to dive in.

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revelationsoundstudio.com

Blueberry:

I think you have some of your terminology mixed up...

Batch export is something that Cubase 4 does NOT have, but something that folks have been requesting for a long time.

Batch export exports a bunch of tracks all at the same time, or in a batch.

What happens when batch export works correctly is that you end up with a single WAV (or AIFF) for EACH track in a mix. Each of these WAVs are of the same length, which is the length of the entire song (or section of the song between the markers). This allows for easy archiving of an entire project in a format that is (almost) future-proof, and can be easily imported into most DAWs.

An advanced feature would be the ability to choose exporting with or without effects.


CONGRATULATIONS on getting Samplitude! I hope it works out for you dude!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Thanks, as you are the one that told me about this issue in the first place. I don't like that in Cubase the takes are on separate tracks. So if batch means that they put them in one track (all the punch in's, etc) then that's what I want and that's what Samplitude gives you.

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revelationsoundstudio.com

Quote Doublehelix:

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Blueberry:

An advanced feature would be the ability to choose exporting with or without effects.

---

Hehe . . . Reaper's got that.

Quote Blueberry:

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Thanks, as you are the one that told me about this issue in the first place. I don't like that in Cubase the takes are on separate tracks. So if batch means that they put them in one track (all the punch in's, etc) then that's what I want and that's what Samplitude gives you.

---

And that too!

(sorry . . . just couldn't resist! )

In all seriousness, though, I do like the looks of Samplitude as well. That's probably the one I'd be looking at if I were in a position to do so -- and may still at some point. I've always thought Samplitude looked like a good option.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

I'm surprised noone has mentioned tracktion (soon to be t3) Anyone use this and love it. How about Ableton Live. Both of these are cross platform.

www.mackie.com/products/tracktion3/compose.html

As pretty much an ex-Cubase user I have started to use Live, and I love it. I will keep Cubase as they are slightly different products, but as someone who mainly records on his own, Live has been great. Ableton appear to be great people, and they do so much to help you get started, with really good tutorials available. You can use the full version (with Save disabled) free of charge.

I don't think Live is right for everyone, but if you want a creative boost, it's worth a try. Even if you stick with a conventional seqencer, I think getting to grips with Live would be worthwhile, as it gives you a different prespective on how to do things, which could be applied to your workflows.

Dealing with Ableton really made me realise just how broken things are with Steinberg's attitude.

--------------------
I like people, it's my friends I can't stand - Larry David.
http://www.myspace.com/lodious

yes same here, im using cubase less and less lateley. The surround panners are the only thing i use it for really.

--------------------
Producer etc

Quote E-Keys:

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I'm surprised noone has mentioned tracktion (soon to be t3)

---

I was always confused about Tracktion. It used to be sold as an "easy to use / clean interface" type of solution which made an impression it was for the beginners. The upcoming T3 is advertized as "the fastest way to create professional music". I still don't know how pro and complete the Tracktion is.

Received Samplitude yesterday. Got the dongle to work ok, had a little problem getting sound to work. (I had to click the monitor box on the setup) The basics in recording is pretty much the same as with Cubase. However there are things that are different. The mixer has a spacial enhancer on the output bus. This is nice to have right at your finger tips. Seeing all my effects, EQ, and Aux all on one page at the same time is nice. The compressors, chorus and delay sound better to me compared to the one's in Cubase. The compressors are pretty much up there with the UAD 1176 and LA2 A. They sound similar (though a little different) but are just as good. Reverb on this program reigns. Outstanding sound I am getting. The wave on the arrange page is a little behind the cursor when recording. I was told by some more expericence Samplitude users that it gets a little more accurate wave form over some other programs. It's not a big deal as when you have play back, it's in the right timing. Found more options with metering than Cubase and with a click of a button, I can make a stereo track mono, or visa versa.

On the customer service side, I emailed them several questions on a Saturday, and I got a response in about an hour. One of the lads in Germany from their main office also commented on their forums when some real improvements were requested. So far I like this program...a lot.

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com

Edited by Blueberry (11/02/07 01:31 AM)

I just tried out Giga Studio with Samplitude and was blown away. In Cubase, you have to turn on the rewire. Then minimize Cubase. Then click on the icon for Giga, after it loads and I selected a instrument, I would click back to Cubase and have to wait about 5-8 seconds before I could work back in Cubase. I could never use the convolution reverb in Giga because it was too stressful for my Pent IV 2.8 computer with 2 gigs of ram. In Samplitude, I just click rewire, a Giga option is right there and it opens Giga right from Samplitude. I can switch back and forth between each program with not even a second delay. Its smooth, there's no glitches and I can use the convolution reverb in Giga and my CPU is still only at about 28%. This is amazing. Samplitude uses a lot less CPU than Cubase thats for sure.

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revelationsoundstudio.com

Hi All,

I have been working very hard learning Samplitude. I have found the same thing as Blueberry. The programs uses less CPU compared to Cubase. The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster. Though Cubase is a great program , I like Samplitude even better. Real Conv.reverb, great synthetic reverb, amazing compressors, the midi mapping is easier than Cubase and all my plug in's work great with it. I have to admit though I would not of picked Samplitude until version 8 came out. It is now pretty rockin on midi and audio. No regrets here

Quote Keef:

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The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster.

---

Not C/C++???

Quote dima:

---

Quote Keef:

---

The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster.

---

Not C/C++???

---

Maybe he means the efficiency of the coding???

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Quote Doublehelix:

---

Quote dima:

---

Quote Keef:

---

The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster.

---

Not C/C++???

---

Maybe he means the efficiency of the coding???

---

The audio engine is wriiten directly in machine code I think.

Quote ezza:

---

Quote Doublehelix:

---

Quote dima:

---

Quote Keef:

---

The language that Samplitude is written is less complex than Cubase which is one reason why it works faster.

---

Not C/C++???

---

Maybe he means the efficiency of the coding???

---

The audio engine is wriiten directly in machine code I think.

---

Assembly is more complex but is more efficient indeed. Not very safe though.

Had the Cubase been written in BASIC it'd still have amusing bugs. I remember the Workspace stuff in Cubase would crash on me when making new Workspaces. And so I learned to suffer through the crashes while making my workspace and never touch it again. How difficult it is to make sure your basic windowing code works? I think it's all about the skill.

I just went out and bought Samplitude using the special upgrade price of US$399. What a great deal, and I really couldn't pass it up.

Should be here in a few days. I am excited to give it a whirl.

Wish me luck!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Well DH, if you get on well with Samplitude, please let us know in time before the cheap crossgrade expires at the end Feb. I'm in the same situation that you (and many others) have been in for the past few weeks; I have years of experience vested in Cubase, plus a studio setup based around it (Midex 8, Yamaha 01v96 that doubles very well as a Cubase controller) and this is the first time I've been even considering looking for a new DAW...

Of the current crop, Samplitude would be my pick, but I do like the look & feel of SX3, and C4 would be the only way to go to keep that going in the future

If only they'd get that bug fix out before the end of Feb!

--------------------
"It's not pretty, also you can't dance to it." - Frank Zappa
www.bluelizardstudio.com

Just so you know Blue Lizard, I am probably the *last* person you would have ever guessed that would have jumped ship to Samplitude. I still can't believe I did it!!! I have defended Steinberg for so long now, it is just amazing. I have been using Cubase for many years as well, and it just feels like family.

With all of the latest developments in the Steinberg camp, I guess I just kind of snapped!

I'll definitely let you know how I get on with Samplitude. I have been playing with the demo, but it is pretty limited in it's ability to record multiple tracks, so the real test will come when I get the full version.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Cheers DH, I know how much you've been a Cubase supporter in the past (here and on several other forums) and I reckon that if Samplitude can work for you, it can work for any current Cubase user...

Best of luck with it, and I do hope it does the trick

--------------------
"It's not pretty, also you can't dance to it." - Frank Zappa
www.bluelizardstudio.com

Quote Lime ZRX:

---

So, if you're a mac user......
Is it just cubase and logic?
Like others here, I've been a cubase since pro-24 on an atari.
When I evetually moved from VST last year to SL3 I did look at Logic and DP.
But at that time because I didn't fancy learning another program from scratch, and also no one else seems to have a proper drum edit page, I stuck with Cubase.
I'm not inpressed with Stingyberg's dropping of SL3 (& SX3) and their dropping of Midex support with a "not sure what we're going to do" annpouncement.
I'll probably still use it because it's only a hobby for me, not a profession.
It's interersting to see what you guys are looking at as alternatives, but if any mac users find other stuff, let us know too!

---

You will pleasently surprised elsewhere. I stopped my Steinberg revenue stream back at SX2, because of performance issues when compared to the other Mac DAWs.

I was able get 40%-60% more instances of effects and instruments using Logic, DP4, and Live.

I was under the impression that all DAWS had bad releases Like Steinberg.

The other companies are way more responsive, with updates usually released in 60 days, instead of six months.

Haven't looked back, haven't missed it after being a longtime user since VST3.



--------------------
G-Dub
Studio G-fx 15inch quad-core i7 Macbook Pro Logic913

Looks like quite a few people are switching to Samplitude.

I downloaded the demo as well but got put off by the UI. Big, plain, and unsightly buttons. When changing between pages in the Project Options dialog, the forms get repainted in a strange way. The menus are overcrowded and seem to contain an item for every single thing the application does in a plain-list fashion. I know some people here said they didn't like Sonar's UI because it's too plain. I think that Samplitude UI is even more plain plus it's not layed out very well.

I haven't made a decision on what I'll be switching to. So far I've explored only Sonar, Samplitude and Reaper. Reaper looks too immature at the moment (although may become a strong contender later). The only one I didn't explore is Tracktion. As I already said, Mac has Logic, but the PC platform doesn't have a de-facto sequencer that would completely satisfy the basic set of requirements (features, usability, quality, support). This situation is the only thing that Steinberg has going for them. At the core of the problem is not Steinberg, but the lack of viable alternatives. This is where they corner their users and this situation is very unfortunate.

Edited by dima (15/02/07 01:06 AM)

Samplitude has different skins for the program which will give you different looks. I thought the one on the demo was ok, but not great. The faders are too short for one. There is a much nicer one that comes with the program that you can choose. Plug ins are far superior, and basic midi is just as easy as Cubase with version 9.02. Plus I like that all the info is on the left on the arrange page all at once (and mixer as well). Cubase just shows you one item at a time.

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revelationsoundstudio.com

Yeah, as I said earlier, Samplitude is definitely different than Cubase, and the interface takes some getting used to, but after playing with it for a while, you start to get the hang of it, and it has some really cool workflow improvements over Cubase.

Also, as Blueberry mentions, there are tons of skins available for Samplitude. Check this one out:

Vintage Samplitide Skin

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

The vintage skin looks pretty good. Some of the icons remind me of something...

I didn't have a problem with Samplitude's tracks or mixer views. Only with the menus and dialogs. Can the menu items be reshuffled as well?

Can somebody who's got a full version of Samplitude do the following for me: load a project, go to Options->Project Options... The dialog will pop up. Jump between "General" and "Mixer Setup" in the tree on the left. Does it flicker and repaint like crazy?

Quote dima:

---

At the core of the problem is not Steinberg, but the lack of viable alternatives. This is where they corner their users and this situation is very unfortunate.

---

They've cornered the education market so everyone learns Cubase at school but they've also cleverly made their interface totally non-standard so that switching to anything else is really difficult.

If you can break out of the Cubase mindset you'll find plenty of other usable software around but, if you can't manage to break out then you are doomed to always be stuck with Steinberg.

cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote dima:

---

I didn't have a problem with Samplitude's tracks or mixer views. Only with the menus and dialogs. Can the menu items be reshuffled as well?

---

Yes, they can to an extent. You can add and remove things from the menus, I am not sure if you can move things *between* menus. I was just reading in the manual last night about how you can customize the menu trees, but I haven't tried it yet. I know there are "hide" and "show" switches for each item in the menu tree however.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~