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marsnic
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #417857 - 07/02/07 05:26 PM
I loaded Reaper last night and was quite impressed. It worked well but I struggled to get the midi side of things working.

I would not use Reaper out of preference to Cubase but now have have a DAW on my laptop that I can use when I've forgotten the damned steiny dongle. It isn't therefore beyond reason that Reaper becomes my main DAW through my predictable absentmindedness.


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marsnic
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Re: Reaper new [Re: MarkEdmonds]
      #417861 - 07/02/07 05:38 PM
Quote MarkEdmonds:

I don't know if that Jesusonic name for the plugins is a joke or serious but either way, it should be dropped PDQ. An extremely unwise name to select IMO!

Mark




Because he wasn't a known audiophile??


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tom101
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #417873 - 07/02/07 06:01 PM
So is it possible to
1) Autoquantize?
2) Make it so that the selected track is automatically record armed?


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Scottdru
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Paul Woodlock]
      #417908 - 07/02/07 07:03 PM
Quote Paul Woodlock:



Scottdru ...

You are not *seriously* comparing Cubase to Reaper by using Cubase VST as an example are you?

This is 2007, not 1999




I guess I was too busy partying as though it were . . .

I do fully understand and agree that it's not quite a fair comparison.

Quote:


Cubase SX3.1 is an absolutely fantastic piece of software and is at the other end of the universe to the sh1tty old Cubase VST. Cubase VST even sounds crap

There's only one routing limitation in Cubase, and that's routing/sending groups to earlier created groups. This will be fixed in Cubase4.1




I've been lusting after Nuendo for a long time, but I am not, nor do I expect to be for some time, in a position to afford it or to justify the extra cost. But when I saw most of the features I was wishing for in SX3, I was hoping to upgrade as soon as I could scrape together the dough.


Quote:


I'm sure Reaper is great, but please give Cubase SX3.1 a proper evalution. Jeez Cubase VST is so archaic and horrible that even a modern version of windows media player is better



I would happily give SX3 a proper evaluation if it were something that was going to be supported for a little while yet, but I have no interest in Cubase 4, so it isn't a logical upgrade path for me.

But the main thing I am really comparing, here, is the difference in the development and business model between what Cockos, Inc. is doing with REAPER, and what Steinblech are doing, which is really a stepping up of the crap they've been pulling for years. I look at Steinberg anymore and, among the many, many sarcastic comments come to mind, I can't keep myself from thinking (or saying) "Houston, we have a problem . . ."


I guess part of what I am trying to say here, too, is that REAPER is an option that can be easily overlooked, and, from everything I am seeing, looking at not only the actual development of the software and the rapid pace, but also the background of the developers and the stated mission of the company, there is something very different going on here. This is not quite the same as some of the other new upstart software companies.

From the Cockos company website:

Quote:


About Cockos

Cockos Incorporated was founded in 2004 as a software development company with philanthropic goals.

The engineers who founded Cockos were tired by the frustration and oppression of working within large companies. Large public companies often find themselves slaves to their shareholders and while focusing on money, lose sight of what's really important.

The software development background of Cockos is extensive--our employees have developed end-user software, software distribution tools, peer-to-peer network and media streaming architectures that are used by many millions of people (examples include Winamp, NSIS, Gnutella, and SHOUTcast).

Some rules we try to follow:

* Give new features to customers quickly: the paradigm of batching updates and then selling them is both a terrible experience for the customer, and detrimental to the quality of the software.

* Avoid copy-protection and DRM schemes: these schemes are almost always ineffective, and usually result in a poorer experience for paying customers than for pirates.

* Price software reasonably, trust your customers
Resources should be spent on product development whenever possible. To the consumer, this translates to more bang for the buck.





Justin Frankel, the founder of Cockos, Inc. and the developer of REAPER, knows from whence he speaks when he talks about the oppression of large companies, after having dealt with all kinds of crap with AOL, after they bought out his company, Nullsoft.

But, if I've got my information correct, Justin left the whole situation with around $100 million.

This is why I say that it is highly unlikely that this project is actually being run completely on a shoestring, and I suspect that it is also unlikely that the company will be sold off to some other big corporate conglomerate like Steinberg and Emagic.

From my understanding, the general consensus seems to be that Justin is a master software coder (he certainly did a fine job with Winamp), and is also a musician of at least reasonable proficiency (I haven't heard any of his stuff myself, so I don't know).

It seems pretty clear to me that he is doing this because it's something he WANTS to do, and I suspect this isn't a situation where he NEEDS a job, or is trying to make his name in the industry so someone will hire him . . . unlike so many of people who develop freeware, shareware, or low cost software alternatives (and, just to be clear, I am not meaning to in any way diminish, disrespect or belittle the efforts of such people, the quality of their work, or the value of their contributions).

Perhaps some of this goes at least a little way in addressing Blueberry's stated concerns?

For myself, having watched so many of the big corporate shennanigans both in the software and music tech industries (e.g., Steinblech, Micro$haft and many others), as well as watching it from the inside while working at some of the largest multinational/Wall Street legal and financial firms for a number of years, I am seeing an increasing reliance on unsustainable business practices with these big corporations, and I have come to the decision that it is *critically* important for those of us who comprise "the market" and/or "the industry" to stand up against such practices.

And when a company like Cockos/project like REAPER comes along, I think it is in my and perhaps ALL of our best interests to support it . . . or at least to help ensure that things like market ignorance or snobbery don't push projects like this (which could be of real benefit to the entire industry, even if we don't ourselves choose REAPER or other similar projects as our primary use tool) into an undeserved cubby hole, to cause the developers to lose interest in continuing development or support, or to cause failure of the project, etc.

From everything I've seen, this project is something that could really fly, and it could see ubiquitous acceptance as a valuable tool -- either primary or auxilliary -- for both musicians in their home studios and for professional studios. (Anything that makes it easier for musicians to work together is a positive contribution, IMHO.) But it is also an easy one to sleep on, because it isn't as flashy as some, they aren't spending big bux on advertising campaigns (which the end-user ends up paying for anyway) and because its user interface is so deceptively simple.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Edited by Scottdru (07/02/07 11:29 PM)


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Scottdru
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Re: Reaper new [Re: MarkEdmonds]
      #417916 - 07/02/07 07:25 PM
Quote MarkEdmonds:

I don't know if that Jesusonic name for the plugins is a joke or serious but either way, it should be dropped PDQ. An extremely unwise name to select IMO!

Mark



I have to say . . . I agree with you 1000% on that one. I think they really need to change the name if these plugins are to remain part of the REAPER distribution, and if REAPER is to gain wide acceptance.

There are potentially negative connotations no matter what one's view may be on religion. Certainly it's hard to take something seriously that is given such a controversial moniker. And, with the huge number of recording studios here in the U.S. that specialise in Christian music, etc., I can imagine that having a recording application that uses plugins named "Jesusonic" would be pretty much a no go for those studios, because no matter that even a majority might be able to have a sense of humour about it and/or look past it, there will invariably be at least someone who will view it as blasphemous, and would absolutely boycott a studio for even considering using even one piece of software with a name like that.

Those studios aren't going to want to risk losing income over something like this.

AS to the origin of the name, it is, of course, entirely tongue in cheek. I think there are a couple of things it could have come from, and perhaps it's a combination of the two. First, the names of the two developers are Justin and Christophe (Jesu Christos? ). Second, I believe these effects were initially developed for a hardware implementation, and, if you look at the picture first prototype of the Jesusonic hardware unit (aptly named the "Jesusonic CrusFX 1000"), you might get an idea why they ended up calling it "Jesusonic". (See Jesusonic website.) The second prototype was a more "secular" design -- the Jesusonic SKULR 500.

They actually have a thread on the REAPER forum discussing potential marketing slogans. I've actually been meaning to make this point about the Jesusonic name there. Perhaps others may want to make their own statements there as well.

I can't see keeping the name as is being a good plan for the company . . . from any perspective, really.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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Koed



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Re: Reaper new [Re: Scottdru]
      #417921 - 07/02/07 07:29 PM
Hear hear

Well said Scott.


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B_Malpani



Joined: 07/02/07
Posts: 3
Re: Reaper new [Re: tex]
      #417923 - 07/02/07 07:39 PM
Quote tex:

I think you'll find Cubase is much more "amateur" than you think in programming terms. I've known programmers in the past who've looked at the code and they reckon it has always been untidy with bits of disused code littered among the workings which are probably the cause of many "bugs" over the years.




You know people who have looked at Steinberg's SOURCE CODE? I am sure that you will forgive for considering you a LIAR until such time as you can prove it.

Out of curiosity, how many of these dissatisfied Cubase users are actually selling their licenses? Because until they do so, it is not possible to take their criticism seriously.

Edited by B_Malpani (07/02/07 07:58 PM)


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tex
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Re: Reaper new [Re: MarkEdmonds]
      #417924 - 07/02/07 07:46 PM
Quote:

I don't know if that Jesusonic name for the plugins is a joke or serious but either way, it should be dropped PDQ. An extremely unwise name to select IMO!





Oh! Gawd. Jesus (and for that matter Muhammed) were names before the religions had them and I'm sure they are big enough not to mind them being used yet again. I'm pretty sure you must think that half of Mexico should change their names then. A friend of mine named his product after his son and the same could apply here.
If Jesusonics offends a religion then that religion is seriously weak. Jesusonics could also be a name with great religious respect behind it.
Go to your church and pray for something meaningful.
And stop hijacking the thread with mindless drivel.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.

Edited by tex (07/02/07 07:49 PM)


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tex
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Re: Reaper new [Re: B_Malpani]
      #417926 - 07/02/07 07:56 PM
Quote B_Malpani:

Quote tex:

I think you'll find Cubase is much more "amateur" than you think in programming terms. I've known programmers in the past who've looked at the code and they reckon it has always been untidy with bits of disused code littered among the workings which are probably the cause of many "bugs" over the years.




You know people who have looked at Steinberg's SOURCE CODE? I am sure that you will forgive for considering you a LIAR until such time as you can prove it.

Out of curiosity, how many of these dissatisfied Cubase users are actually selling their licenses? Because until they do so, it is not possible to take their criticism fairly.




You can call me anything you like darling but other people do work in programming and some have worked on commercial code. Actually the code does work quite well despite imperfections. At present it's only partly the Cubase program to blame for grievances. Most of the dissatisfaction is from the company attitude. As I explained to someone earlier programmers are not brain surgeons but people seem to treat them with god like reverence and they take themselves seriously then a little program like this comes along and shows up the imperfections. Which department do you work in?

ps. I did put the word amateur in quotes so as not to get it taken that seriously. It's obviously not that simplistic.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.

Edited by tex (07/02/07 07:59 PM)


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B_Malpani



Joined: 07/02/07
Posts: 3
Re: Reaper new [Re: tex]
      #417929 - 07/02/07 08:01 PM
Quote tex:

Quote B_Malpani:

Quote tex:

I think you'll find Cubase is much more "amateur" than you think in programming terms. I've known programmers in the past who've looked at the code and they reckon it has always been untidy with bits of disused code littered among the workings which are probably the cause of many "bugs" over the years.




You know people who have looked at Steinberg's SOURCE CODE? I am sure that you will forgive for considering you a LIAR until such time as you can prove it.

Out of curiosity, how many of these dissatisfied Cubase users are actually selling their licenses? Because until they do so, it is not possible to take their criticism fairly.




You can call me anything you like darling but other people do work in programming and some have worked on commercial code. Actually the code does work quite well despite imperfections. At present it's only partly the Cubase program to blame for grievances. Most of the dissatisfaction is from the company attitude. As I explained to someone earlier programmers are not brain surgeons but people seem to treat them with god like reverence and they take themselves seriously then a little program like this comes along and shows up the imperfections. Which department do you work in?




In other words, you really do not know anyone who has seen the source code. So I was correct - you are a liar.


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Dave B



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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #417948 - 07/02/07 08:31 PM
Oooh look. Someone who joined today and whose only posts are to flame someone else with a different point of view. We have a word for people like that. Do you remember what it is, children?

That's right. He's a 'Troll'.

Let's not feed him and see if the nasty man goes away.



--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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B_Malpani



Joined: 07/02/07
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #417954 - 07/02/07 08:36 PM
Quote Dave B:

Oooh look. Someone who joined today and whose only posts are to flame someone else with a different point of view. We have a word for people like that. Do you remember what it is, children?

That's right. He's a 'Troll'.

Let's not feed him and see if the nasty man goes away.






The "different point of view" is in regard to telling barefaced lies. Tex is in favour of lies; I am against it. I will assume you are on Tex's side.


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Scottdru
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Re: Reaper new [Re: B_Malpani]
      #417970 - 07/02/07 08:57 PM
B_Malpani:

Please read the SOS Forum Rules, and make sure you are in compliance with said rules, before you make any further posts.

First: Whilst we welcome dissenting opinions, your approach here is unnecessarily aggressive, and your attacks are personal. This approach is not welcome here in the SOS Forums. If you want to debate, stick to productive debate of the facts and the issues at hand, rather than resorting to name calling (which is not even remotely productive).

If you have some information to offer that is based in substance, by all means you are welcome to discuss it, though you are really taking the thread quite far off topic. But we won't tolerate unnecessary provocation and escalation.

Second: Do you work for Steinberg or have a direct interest? It sound to me like you must, unless you are simply trolling. If you have any such interest, please state your interest.

Pleased be advised that if you continue in the aggressive manner you have taken up to this point, you will be banned and your posts will be deleted, to eliminate the wasted space in this thread.

If you feel the need to debate the position I am taking on this matter, you may PM me, and I will discuss anything reasonable, but I am unwilling to allow this thread to be taken further off course with this childishness.

Consider this your first and last warning.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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Hairy Ears
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #417972 - 07/02/07 09:00 PM
Speaking as a software developer myself, I can tell you that Cubase will have bugs, and there will almost certainly be bits of unused code hanging around here and there, probably not much.

Have I seen the source code? No, but any large size program will have bugs to a greater or lesser extent, it's inevitable.

My area is in flight controls and other aviation system, so complex and involved (and have somewhat more serious consequences than a missed beat should they fail!) and the testing is indepth and involved, and yet the odd bug still gets through from time to time. Steinberg will not be testing to the level that we have to. I'm sure their developers strive to do the best they can, but bugs will get through.

--------------------
* Soundcloud *
* Bandcamp *


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Scottdru
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Re: Reaper new [Re: tex]
      #418008 - 07/02/07 10:16 PM
Quote tex:


Oh! Gawd. Jesus (and for that matter Muhammed) were names before the religions had them and I'm sure they are big enough not to mind them being used yet again. I'm pretty sure you must think that half of Mexico should change their names then.
A friend of mine named his product after his son and the same could apply here.




Yes . . . but . . . was your friend's name GOD (or, for that matter, YHWH)?

Quote tex:


If Jesusonics offends a religion then that religion is seriously weak. Jesusonics could also be a name with great religious respect behind it.
Go to your church and pray for something meaningful.




It isn't necessarily "a religion" that might be offended by such a thing as it would be an individual or a group of individuals. One cannot dictate another's religious views, and certainly someone who is running a business would be extremely unwise to try.

I personally think God has a sense of humour . . . others may not believe there is a God or other supreme being/spirit, etc. But certainly there are people amongst the Christian religion who might reasonably believe that naming a software tool something like "Jesusonic" falls afoul of the "thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain" commandment. And it is their right to hold their beliefs.

The last thing the owner of a professional studio is going to want to do is to enter into a debate with a potential client as to why the client should not find such things offensive.

No matter what your beliefs, this is just reality. Unless you happen to have so many people knocking down your door to throw money at you that you feel you have plenty of room to discriminate against people who don't believe exactly as you do, without hurting your business in any way.

And, as a studio owner, you need to be mindful of the client's comfort. Even if you have the debate, the artist doesn't want to have something like that niggling at the back of his mind and distracting him/her while he's trying to make music.

Quote:


And stop hijacking the thread with mindless drivel.



So . . . while I'm at it . . . I'll remind you as well, tex, that, while open, constructive debate is encouraged here, this kind of dismissiveness (as well as making personal accusations based on broadly sweeping assumptions) is not productive and not acceptable here. It is only mindless drivel to you, from the standpoint of your own personal views, but I think those who are discussing that particular issue have a broader perspective in mind, and it is a legitimate and very realistic concern with regard to whether or not REAPER could gain the kind of ubiquitous acceptance in the industry to sustain it as a viable alternative.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #418027 - 07/02/07 10:46 PM
Well Steinberg did leave the Yamaha DSPF code from SX in C4, all unconnected and ready to go wrong and here's the thread that proves it:

http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=56996

On the other hand, that Reaper thingy is really rather tasty.

Aloha.


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #418029 - 07/02/07 10:51 PM
Quick update. I scanned my vst plugins directory and everything that wasn't linked to SX/VST was accepted. So I plugged a LiquidMix instance onto the drum folder and that was fine. Set up a track for FX and used the Powercore reverb and that worked ok. I was especially impressed by the send / recieve options in the routing - allowing you to see not only where you are routing to, but what is being routed to the track. Nice touch..

Sadly, I'm about the only non-UAD user left on the planet ( ) so I can't comment on how that works. But the LM and Poco just drop in which is damned good!

The other interesting point is that I downloaded a version last week to evaluate on this, my general purpose machine and by the time it had got to this evening, there was a brand new build available with more features/fixes. Cor!

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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Henry-S
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #418033 - 07/02/07 11:02 PM
Personally think the whole Jesusonic is not a big issue. Its just been used as a joke and I hate to say it but the developer can call the plugins whatever he likes, regardless if one religion thinks its good or bad.

I seriously doubt they sat down and thought

"hey guys shall we try and offend a religion with this name?"

Of course they didn't, they are just taking a light hearted view about a subject everyone takes soooo seriously.

But seriously this has no actual part in whether the software does its job or not. Personally the developer can call things what he wants, I don't see anyone who uses the Asio4All driver with

Simple settings - George Bush
Expert settings - Einstein

but yet loads of people use those drivers and you don't see people saying "but this is unpatriotic!!" or "this is offending our president".

Think some things are just becoming over analysed and really this has no bearing on the software at all. Your free to think what you want and if some people think its out to offend thats "your" opinion. I see boxsets of Monty Python selling all over the world and "Life Of Brian" around in the shops and still being shown on tv.

Basically

Its your personal view and you would be better bringing it up with the software developer and on the Reaper Forum than on this post.

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky

Edited by Henry-S (07/02/07 11:06 PM)


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Scottdru
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Henry-S]
      #418053 - 07/02/07 11:55 PM
Quote Henry-S:

I don't see anyone who uses the Asio4All driver with

Simple settings - George Bush
Expert settings - Einstein

but yet loads of people use those drivers and you don't see people saying "but this is unpatriotic!!" or "this is offending our president".




Yes, but I think most musicians and people in the music industry (other than perhaps the record company execs) at large are highly unlikely to be Bush supporters (though that balance may change quite a bit in the Christian music industry), and don't have the mindset that disagreeing with the pResident is unpatriotic.

Anyway . . . if you are referring to my comments, Henry, I'll clarify that personally I'm not particularly bothered by it (and, while I personally do believe in a higher power and I was raised in a Christian environment, I actually I'm not too big a fan of organised religion myself, but am tolerant of other religions as well as atheism), I know for a fact that there are people in the world who WOULD be bothered by it, and, particularly here in the U.S. market, it could prevent REAPER from being adopted by studios that specialise in Christian music. That's not a personal issue, it's just a reality with regard to a given segment of the industry here in the U.S.

My concerns are not regarding my own personal feelings about the name Jesusonic, but rather for the success of REAPER and or other small companies that might initiate projects like this.

[BTW . . . I'll just state here that I do not work for Cockos, Inc or have any connection whatsoever with the developers of REAPER, in case anybody had any doubts or suspicions!

My interest and support for the REAPER project is based more on social motivations, given the trends I see with regard to big corporations and my desire to see a return to quality-based, customer-focused business models, and also because I really like what I'm seeing so far and I really DO believe that people may find it worth a closer look, etc.

For some of these same reasons I tend to want to support smaller companies making very high quality, reasonably priced products such as Voxengo, PSP Audioworks and other similar companies, rather than buying products from companies such as Waves, etc.

I don't like to be forced into buying things and needlessly upgrading. That kind of thing all too often becomes a type of indentured servitude, and I've got too many better things I want to accomplish in this short life time than to waste it being someone's indentured servant. ]

Speaking of which . . . it's getting long past time for me to get cracking on seeing how my KAT midiKITI, Dauz pads and Emu Emulator X interact with REAPER! Started to put the kit together last night, but was too tired to finish.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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Henry-S
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #418059 - 08/02/07 12:10 AM
It wasn't just aimed at you Scott, Can't remeber the other person who posted.

I was just saying that in America (where you are, so you know more than me). I had the feeling that this guy George Bush was voted in by the "majority" meaning people obviously respect the guy and think he makes a good leader (I suppose each to their own). Making fun of him in ASIO4ALL seems more widely accepted than having a little fun at religion, I was just suggesting that the name isn't that bad and plenty of Americans who voted for George Bush probably use ASIO4ALL

I however think there are more pressing issues with Reaper that need to be addressed and literally the plugins could just be renamed "Reaper Plug". It would make no difference to their functionality and would stop this whole backlash your refering to.

But this so called "backlash" your preparing for (or suspecting would happen) isn't really close, because I cannot see any major studios adopting a program which can have random crashes with some plugins, midi editing which is below the level of Cubase, Sonar and Logic, and of course the support from plugin developers (this will increase soon though i suspect!).

So in summary, I understand exactly what you are saying. I just feel its a little like putting the cart before the horse in the aspect of Reaper becoming the most used DAW software in USA and being rejected by christian studios. The name of the plugins could be changed in about 5 minutes and probably will be, but I would prefer they sorted out the Midi piano roll than spent the 5 minutes changing the plugin names

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky

Edited by Henry-S (08/02/07 12:13 AM)


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tex
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #418074 - 08/02/07 01:28 AM
Well my intolerance of intolerance is getting me into warm water again. I was going to suggest that the plugin names be changed to SantaSonics but I realised that dyslexic Satanists may be offended. Sorry, all.
Please can any other comments on my previous replies in here be carried on in the other, Cubase relevant, thread.
I think we've caused enough ruckus to this subject.
I'm looking forward to using Reaper and will call here for assistance if I need it. Thanks all.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


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Alphajuno



Joined: 02/11/05
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #418155 - 08/02/07 08:53 AM
Agreed the name may cause some offence in certain circles.

If people dont like it though they can use something else.


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #418193 - 08/02/07 10:15 AM
Please meet the Jesusonic CrusFX 1000, a hardware implementation of the Jesusonic engine.


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S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Reaper new [Re: tex]
      #418195 - 08/02/07 10:20 AM
Quote tex:

I realised that dyslexic Satanists may be offended.




They worship the drivel.

Just bought a Reaper license. You sods. Just when you think it's safe to take your eyes off your wallet.


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marsnic
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Koed]
      #418214 - 08/02/07 11:10 AM
Quote Koed:

Please meet the Jesusonic CrusFX 1000, a hardware implementation of the Jesusonic engine.





I have no idea what this is but I want one


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pipelineaudio



Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 60
Re: Reaper new [Re: marsnic]
      #419430 - 11/02/07 02:46 AM
Quote marsnic:

It isn't therefore beyond reason that Reaper becomes my main DAW through my predictable absentmindedness.




Awesome! The ultimate ad slogan for sure

And scottdru and others, thanks for the kind words about REAPER!

Don't let the religious shennanigans/accusations throw you off, we have both a hardcore atheist and a Jehova's Witness in the development chat at nearly all times and we all get along, we concentrate on making the REAPER experience better for all concerned

religion is someone else's job...non overlapping majesteria and all that


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Doublehelix



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Re: Reaper new [Re: pipelineaudio]
      #419583 - 11/02/07 03:46 PM
Quote pipelineaudio:

religion is someone else's job...non overlapping majesteria and all that





If that is the case, then why did Justin name the plugs as he did?

What you should say is that "you are going to name the plugins whatever you want no matter what the religious folks feel".

The choice of names brings you into the religious argument, period. I'm sorry, but your response is a cop out.

It is like naming a plugin "Pollack-asonic", and then claiming that race bias is someone's else's job. (no offense to my Polish friends here, just making an analogy.)

Its a crap name, and a cop-out explanation. Get your head out of the sand and see it for what it is. It is a religious statement, or in this case, an "anti-religious" statement. "...religion is someone else's job..." sheesh! If that was true, then you would change the name.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Scottdru
Cool Dude


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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #419603 - 11/02/07 05:11 PM
FWIW, there is some interesting (and intelligent, IMHO) debate on the subject of the Jesusonic name in an older thread on the REAPER forum here.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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pipelineaudio



Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 60
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #419629 - 11/02/07 05:58 PM
Quote Doublehelix:


Its a crap name, and a cop-out explanation. Get your head out of the sand and see it for what it is. It is a religious statement, or in this case, an "anti-religious" statement. "...religion is someone else's job..." sheesh! If that was true, then you would change the name.




Have you ANY evidence, whatsoever it is an anti-religious statement?

Anything to indicate this is the case?

Even the slimmest of straws?

Maybe you could look for the developers view on the subject instead of making things up.


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
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Re: Reaper new [Re: pipelineaudio]
      #419778 - 12/02/07 02:03 AM
Quote pipelineaudio:

Quote Doublehelix:


Its a crap name, and a cop-out explanation. Get your head out of the sand and see it for what it is. It is a religious statement, or in this case, an "anti-religious" statement. "...religion is someone else's job..." sheesh! If that was true, then you would change the name.




Have you ANY evidence, whatsoever it is an anti-religious statement?

Anything to indicate this is the case?

Even the slimmest of straws?

Maybe you could look for the developers view on the subject instead of making things up.





I find it quite funny that you chose to zero in on that comment and ignore the whole point of my post.

Your comments were that you chose to stay out of the religious aspects of the issue, and my point was that by choosing that name, you have done nothing of the kind. And whether you or Justin realize it, it is an anti-religious statement, no matter what the original intent.

Just like the Swedish comic who made a cartoon of Muhammad that offended half of the Muslim world. He thought it was funny, and did not intend it as an anti-religious statement. He was just making a joke as he put it, similar to Justin's use of the word Jesus.

Now of course you can on and on about how many folks in the world, especially in Latin America that have the name "Jesus". Again, a cop out, and both you and I know it.

My point is that there are a lot of folks that will never take you seriously with a name like that. It is reality. Like it or not. Call them wimps if you like, it doesn't really matter to me. It is just a fact.

I am not even really trying to take a side on this, just pointing out a fact, and calling you out on your comments that you are "staying away from the religious aspect".

I was making comments in response to your statement, which I found faulty. I was really making no personal judgment calls on the name itself, just your attempt to run away from the responsibility.

I find it funny how you are programmed to respond in the way that you did, assuming my intent.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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deadbeef



Joined: 12/02/07
Posts: 5
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #419784 - 12/02/07 02:39 AM
I thought it was a Danish comic strip..

Anyway, as the author of REAPER/Jesusonic/etc I can speak to this:

Jesusonic is in no way trying to be offensive to Christians. I am an atheist, but I do find the Christian concept and underlying message of Jesus to be a great one-- one that many Christians seem to forget about. So Jesusonic is there to remind us all to love our neighbors/forgive/etc etc..

What's offensive about that?

-Justin

Edited by deadbeef (12/02/07 02:47 AM)


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pipelineaudio



Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 60
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #419786 - 12/02/07 02:41 AM
Quote Doublehelix:


Your comments were that you chose to stay out of the religious aspects of the issue, and my point was that by choosing that name, you have done nothing of the kind. And whether you or Justin realize it, it is an anti-religious statement, no matter what the original intent.




Again you claim, and again with no evidence that this is an anti-religious statement.

It isnt, as Justin says

But it matters not, regardless of which religion is right, and even regardless of which religion is in power in any particular location, 2+2=4

One tool mouse operation is cool

A responsive developer really makes DAW's happy

none of these things change or ARE changed by any religious concepts, therefore, non-overlapping majesteria

Now anyone can hold up a pin during sewing class and start screaming about how many angels could dance on the head of it, but it wont make one bit of difference to the next stitch


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S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
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Re: Reaper new [Re: pipelineaudio]
      #419817 - 12/02/07 08:23 AM
Quote pipelineaudio:

Now anyone can hold up a pin during sewing class and start screaming about how many angels could dance on the head of it




All of them.

I don't care one whit what you call your plugs, but if somebody tells you they feel offended by your actions, you telling that they don't really, is a rather foolish thing.

Edited by S G H Houbart (12/02/07 08:26 AM)


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IvanSC



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Re: Reaper new [Re: S G H Houbart]
      #419819 - 12/02/07 08:45 AM
Quote S G H Houbart:

Quote pipelineaudio:

Now anyone can hold up a pin during sewing class and start screaming about how many angels could dance on the head of it




All of them.

I don't care one whit what you call your plugs, but if somebody tells you they feel offended by your actions, you telling that they don't really, is a rather foolish thing.





Ophir Fuchseque! Take it to .alt.religion, you lot!

Could somebody PLEASE post something informative and interesting about Reaper on this thread?

--------------------
Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #419830 - 12/02/07 09:08 AM
Something informative about reaper?

It runs great with my UAD, no problem whatsoever.
There's even a VST function that's great for UAD and that's the reveal UI thingy.
It basicaly just gives you a simplified version of the parameters available for any particular VST.
Those of you who've worked with the UAD plugs know that the dials are allmost impossible to read, for authenticity.
But a quick click on the UI button and those shiny graphics make way for a bunch of sliders with readable numbers.
Real handy to remember that perfect LA-2A setting with or make that final one tenth adjustment


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Dave B



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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #419844 - 12/02/07 09:20 AM
So that's now confirmed that it runs with UAD cards, Powercore (PCI anyway) and Liquid Mix units. Very impressive. That covers most of the effects plugins and I am assuming that the instruments are also well catered. I will be interested to see just how much of a strain my Wavestation places on my system under Reaper - under SX it is a huge resource hog and it will be interesting to see if there is a difference.

Does anyone know if there is a 'freeze' function for midi yet?

From my point of view, if there were a drum editor (I see that it is well represented in the 'wish list' already) then I would be quite happy. I also would like to see Reaper go down the 'combined midi and audio / instrument' concept for external synths plugged into the soundcard. I think that tonight I will try and see if I can set up ins/outs for my outboard fx and see how that goes.

And I am over the moon about the whole OSX thing. Big thumbs up there - that will make Reaper one of the few cross-platform DAWs out there. Could well be another nail in Steinberg's coffin...

(Guys, can we _please_ just not go on about names anymore ... pretty please ..? )

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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_Nuno_



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Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #419851 - 12/02/07 09:46 AM
Quote Dave B:

So that's now confirmed that it runs with UAD cards, Powercore (PCI anyway) and Liquid Mix units. Very impressive. That covers most of the effects plugins and I am assuming that the instruments are also well catered. I will be interested to see just how much of a strain my Wavestation places on my system under Reaper - under SX it is a huge resource hog and it will be interesting to see if there is a difference.






My wavestation VSTi crashes reaper every single time. I'd be interested to know if the same thing happens to you.


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James PerrettModerator



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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #419921 - 12/02/07 11:30 AM
I had a go with Reaper over the weekend doing 16 tracks of simultaneous 44.1kHz 24 bit recording. It kind of worked at the lowest latency setting on my RME interface (64 samples) but there were occasional glitches. Increasing the latency seemed to cure this.

The great thing about Reaper is that it seems totally logically laid out - if you are familiar with Windows conventions you'll find your way around very quickly. The list of included plug-ins seems very comprehensive including things like an exciter that actually seems to work!

One downside is that it doesn't include a built in audio editor for really fine scale work but, for me at least, this doesn't matter as the program I usually use, has a great editor which can be integrated into Reaper so that just double clicking on the audio brings up Auditions editor. I would also like to see a more comprehensive mixer which includes plug-in information and send levels for each track.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #419939 - 12/02/07 12:03 PM
Quote Dave B:

.
Does anyone know if there is a 'freeze' function for midi yet?





Try the 'Apply FX to new Take' option on your miditrack.
If you run into trouble with your VSTi, there's an option in the preferences to do all renders/applyfx in realtime.

Quote James Perrett:

I would also like to see a more comprehensive mixer which includes plug-in information and send levels for each track.




According to the wiki and what I've read on the forums, that's exactly what's being worked on for one of the next releases.


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
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Re: Reaper new [Re: pipelineaudio]
      #419982 - 12/02/07 01:11 PM
Quote pipelineaudio:



Again you claim, and again with no evidence that this is an anti-religious statement.

It isnt, as Justin says





I also thought I made the point that it matters NOT the original intent. Something can be viewed to be anti-religious regardless of the original intent of the author. I did make that point, which you chose to ignore I guess. Justin can tell us all he wants about his original intent, but all that matters not if it offends a religion.

I was honestly not trying to make a moral comment, but rather a logical and business comment, and I stand by what I have written.

Back to Reaper...


It is obvious that we are all interested in what Reaper has to offer, including Justin's responsiveness and development cycle. That is why I started this thread to begin with, to give it some visibility, not to argue about a stupid name.

For me, and many others, we are fed up with Steinberg, and I know that I for one will never give them another penny of my money.

At this point for me, it is between Reaper and Samplitude. Reaper is exciting, but still has a ways to go to convince me that it is ready. Things like getting the UAD-1 issues worked out and support for multiple Mackie Control units seem like they are *almost* there.

I am convinced beyond doubt that Reaper is going to take this market by storm, but it needs a little time to get out to the masses where some SERIOUS system testing can go on with many hundreds of systems. As this thing grows, it is going to gain stability and compatibility with more and more systems and plugins, and that is what is going to push it over the edge.

I still say the marketing model needs updating, but I am obviously not going to convince anyone here of that. I feel it is a mistake, and Justin et. al. are going to defend it to the death out of principle, rather than take the safe and tested road. Good for you. I wish you luck. Seriously.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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