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Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420004 - 12/02/07 01:34 PM
Huh, well if you ask me, I think REAPER and Justin are very inconsiderate, and here's why:

1. As I've always been more of a 'performance' orientated DAW user (as opposed to advanced editing and sound manipulation), I decide that I don't use many of the 'advanced' features in my DAW set up (Cubase SX3 and Pro-Tools LE), so I make the change to TRACKTION 2 and think it's the best thing since sliced bread!

2. Then I read on a number of forums all the excitement about REAPER so I download it to casually check out.

3. and despite having just spent £107 on Tracktion 2 (full boxed version with extra plugs, not bundled version), I am sitting thinking "hang on, this is better than Tracktion 2 in almost all respects!!!"... oh no !!).

4. So, despite having just changed my signature to reflect my new love of Tracktion 2, I have now had to change it once again to reflect my fast directed love towards REAPER!

seriously folks, for those that haven't tried it, REAPER is just so great in every respect. As others have said, the 'right click' menus are sooo context specific that you always have the tools you need right to hand. It's just wonderful. I have no issues with any of my VSTi's and CPU load on my ageing Dell P4 is so much lighter than with Tracktion 2 (which was already decent compared to Cubase and PT).

From a DAW perspective, I am hooked. I have laid the anchor down with REAPER and will be supporting Justin by making this my permanent DAW going forward and by buying a license.

About the "Jesusonic" and other 'contraversial' names. It is sad that we now live in an age of extreme politically-correct-oversensitivity. It is utter nonsense that a developer can't give a product a name that is associated with a religion. To me, it would be blasphemous to call the plug-in "Jesus Sucks", but to just refer to Jesus' name - how can this be offensive ?

Would the same have been said if he'd called a plug-in "Krishna" ? or "Buddha".... ?

....no way. People would only start rumbling where the reference is to a Christian or Muslim reference. Such is the state of friction in the world between those religions at the moment. But that should not mean that a developer can't use a religious reference as a name.

As well as all the protection for the oversensitive religions, what happened to rights of exression and the right of free speech ?

If we were experiancing a "cold war" due to oil possession, (as opposed to religion), would a audio software developer get scorned for calling his new brickwall limiter "The Barrel" ?

I truly don't intend to offend any Americans on this post but I think this is a subject where there is a chasm of differing attitudes between the shores of 'the pond'. Having good friends (my lyricist and her family actually) who live in the middle of the bible belt in the US, I have seen a number of anecdotes where benign reference to Christianity causes great over-reaction. We are all entitled to our beliefs, and we are all entitled to respect but that extends (in this case) to the developers' free expression and choices, as well as to the followers of the world's religions.

Now, Anyone fancy a boxed version of Tracktion 2 ?



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What it says on the tin...


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S G H Houbart



Joined: 26/02/06
Posts: 73
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420075 - 12/02/07 03:35 PM
Quote Doublehelix:


I was honestly not trying to make a moral comment, but rather a logical and business comment, and I stand by what I have written.





Well quite, and however much people shout Ophir Fuchseque, get used to the smell people, 'cos it'll be coming around and around and around again. Without end.


Quote Doublehelix:

For me, and many others, we are fed up with Steinberg, and I know that I for one will never give them another penny of my money.

At this point for me, it is between Reaper and Samplitude. Reaper is exciting, but still has a ways to go to convince me that it is ready. Things like getting the UAD-1 issues worked out and support for multiple Mackie Control units seem like they are *almost* there.





Well I've used Sam 7 since SX1. I'd rather pay a few bucks to a developer who actually listens to his customers and tries to build something exciting than pay thousands to a bunch of intolerant, arrogant and bigoted losers, which is what Steinberg has become. Reaper's fun. That's worth supporting in this day and age. My way or the highway? Autobahn.


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pipelineaudio



Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 60
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420079 - 12/02/07 03:43 PM
Quote Doublehelix:

Quote pipelineaudio:



I still say the marketing model needs updating, but I am obviously not going to convince anyone here of that. I feel it is a mistake, and Justin et. al. are going to defend it to the death out of principle, rather than take the safe and tested road. Good for you. I wish you luck. Seriously.




This is a fair statement

I hope this wont disappoint you, but REAPER's whole reason for being is that the safe and "tested" road SUCKS

it doesnt suck a little bit, its a total joke

So far the paradigm has mostly been audio apps built by marketing engineers

good riddance to that crap. With REAPER we have an app built by audio engineers

It took TEN YEARS for the marketing engineers of native apps to come up with a halfway sensible monitoring system!

Instead in three months of REAPER's birth I was already using it in one of L.A.'s best rooms in lieu of a trident A/PTHD combo


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420211 - 12/02/07 09:05 PM
The last two posts by S G H Houbart and Pipelineaudio both have really great points in them, and I appreciate your comments.

I really need to find some spare time to give it a go.

Steinberg REALLY SUCKS!!! I am so done with them and their corporate crap. Not another penny will they get.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Alphajuno



Joined: 02/11/05
Posts: 307
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420224 - 12/02/07 09:31 PM
Yep the whole marketing machines attached to certain DAW is a terrible state of affairs to be in.

Its not just Steingberg either, i cant stand the whole Digidesign and its specfic hardware thing.

Its just so refreshing to have a product that comes with attitude like this.


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5716
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420239 - 12/02/07 09:44 PM
Well, the Wavestation works fine and seems to consume about the same amount of CPU as in SX1. A really big chord (about 8notes or so) peaked at about 20% which is to be expected really. The only beef that I have is that the CPU meter is on the 'channel' panel which means you have to have it open to monitor load - which means that I've probably not found the right location for it yet!



Found it!! Ooops!! And boy could Steinberg learn a thing or two from it - I've always wondered who the cpu-hungry tracks were and this let's me know. Woo Hoo.



I like the fact that you simply chain effects / instruments in the same pane as this makes the instrument feel more integrated - which is what I suppose an 'instrument' track in Cubase4 is supposed to address. I never did get why we need two tracks for VSTis ....

Found out how to make it send out to my outboard fx, so the Eventide is now used in the demo project. It would be great if you could not just specify an output routing, but also an return channel pair (and have latency compensated) so that the external fx are used like 'inserts' on the track.

I'm slowly getting more used to it now. I suppose that I'll have to bite the bullet and see if can produce a track in it.

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420245 - 12/02/07 09:58 PM
Talk about Steinberg support?

Read this:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/newpost.php?Cat=&Board=MRT&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5716
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420356 - 13/02/07 07:50 AM
DH, link doesn't work - it just starts a new post.

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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DrBob
new member


Joined: 07/01/04
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420508 - 13/02/07 01:01 PM
Are some of the Reaper users also using Powercore and UAD1 together, possibly in a magma chassis? This is a configuration that causes problems for lot of users of other DAW's, so, if it works in Reaper, it's a very good indication of the system robustness I guess.

--------------------
dB Studio - recording, mixing, transfer
www.dBStudio-Liege.net


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
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Re: Reaper new [Re: deadbeef]
      #420523 - 13/02/07 01:33 PM
Quote deadbeef:

I thought it was a Danish comic strip..

Anyway, as the author of REAPER/Jesusonic/etc I can speak to this:

Jesusonic is in no way trying to be offensive to Christians. I am an atheist, but I do find the Christian concept and underlying message of Jesus to be a great one-- one that many Christians seem to forget about. So Jesusonic is there to remind us all to love our neighbors/forgive/etc etc..

What's offensive about that?

-Justin




Nothing offensive at all, and if no-one else is going to say it I will - welcome to the SOS Forums Justin!

It's always pleasing when the developer of a product takes the trouble to register and post here, especially when the product in question (Reaper) is reaping so much (nearly all good) publicity

Actually I finally downloaded it yesterday after reading this thread, and am well impressed so far with what you've achieved in a comparatively short time.

Well done!


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420545 - 13/02/07 02:02 PM
Here here!

Why do some people get so doggedly hung up on side issues? DH, I don't mean to offend but in my opinion you are coming across as stubborn and persistant.

Justin and Pipeline Audio have taken the time to register and assure people that they are using the Jesus reference without any malice, and that the development team are even cross-faith (including atheism as a 'faith' ).

Even if (like me, I add), you are a Christian, stop being so over-sensitive just because a plug-in range includes (and is not detrimental to) the word or name 'Jesus'.

Why limit your world and outlook by being so narrow-minded on what is acceptable. Be reasonable, sure if the plugs were called "Kill God" or "Jesus was a Scouser" I could understand the offence but simply calling them "Jesusonic" is no grounds or evidence of being offensive.

For what it's worth, I found your aggressive manner and tone with the developers a lot more offensive.

Anyway, no offence intended. Right, must dash, Reaper is waiting!



--------------------
What it says on the tin...


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Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420549 - 13/02/07 02:05 PM
Anyway, isn't the name "Waves" blasphemous?

It's clealy relating to the Biblical parting of the waves.



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What it says on the tin...


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #420579 - 13/02/07 02:45 PM
David:

It is often difficult to determine the tone of a post on the internet since we are only reading the written word. I thought I was being quite calm and presenting my opinion in a logical manner. If it came off as offensive, then I apologize.

My main point was that Pipelineaudio was avoiding my point, and instead trying to convince me that the name was not offensive. I was actually trying to point out to him that the name creates religious connotations even though he insisted that they were staying out of the religious issues.

Pipelineaudio seemed pre-programmed to respond that it was not offensive to anyone that mentions the religious relationship. My comments were aimed in a different area, yet he still responded in a way that had nothing (really) to do with my comments. This is why I had to keep coming back with more comments.

Also, no offense to you David, but you also misread my comments. I don't personally like the name, but that is me. My point *however* was in response to the staying out of the religious argument. I find it funny that you responded the way you did too, assuming that I was making a *huge* moral issue out of it.

I was making a business/marketing issue out of it!!!

These forums are for open discussions, right? I was voicing my opinion, and he his. That is cool, and I was not trying to be confrontational. Go back and re-read if you like, and this time imagine my comments being made in a calm, rational manner!

Anyway...peace!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5716
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420584 - 13/02/07 02:53 PM
Anyway ..... getting back to the point .....

Browsing the documentation last night I came upon the ReaMote entry. What an unexpected bonus - like FX teleport, but free (as opposed to V-Stack)! That's _awfully_ nice of someone to provide. Has anyone tried running that at all?

If I install this on my 'old' machine (or even a new, shiny one) then it should lighten the load of my existing DAW PC. And I like the fact that the documentation actually explains how to calculate the network capacity needed for it to run. Very slick indeed. That will be tonight's little project.

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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pipelineaudio



Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 60
Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #420628 - 13/02/07 04:11 PM
Quote Dave B:


Browsing the documentation last night I came upon the ReaMote entry. What an unexpected bonus - like FX teleport, but free (as opposed to V-Stack)! That's _awfully_ nice of someone to provide. Has anyone tried running that at all?





Lots of fun stuff like that gets lost in the shuffle

We really havent had enough people testing this out. My partner has a core2duo laptop with Gig-E. I was able to drop a project from 65%cpu to 12% cpu on the main PC, without any sort of trouble from ReaMote

Starting to think that instead of the Magma system, ReaMote may be the way to go for those using UAD-1's. However, Justin just got an 8 core system the other day and was able to run 60 tracks of ambience VST on it, so maybe DSP cards arent going to be very important now.


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420643 - 13/02/07 04:33 PM
Planning on giving Reamote a try tonight.
Currently using FX teleport on an old remote machine for some of my VSTi's.
Might be fun to see how well it holds up.


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
Posts: 556
Loc: Delft,The Netherlands
Re: Reaper new [Re: pipelineaudio]
      #420646 - 13/02/07 04:41 PM
Quote pipelineaudio:

Justin just got an 8 core system the other day and was able to run 60 tracks of ambience VST on it, so maybe DSP cards arent going to be very important now.




I think it'll be a while before you see the downfall of the DSP card. Especialy UAD.
CPU's are not very efficient at handeling floating point operations, that's why everyone has to have a 240watt GPU in their system to play a game
The UAD plugins rely solely on floating point arithmetic and would probably grind any dualcore to a halt.
Try playing some of the recent games with a software mode video driver, maybe the 8 core could do it.

In time I think the algorithms for audio plugins, like graphics for games, will only evolve and a dedicated FPU or GPU will be a must for any audio application.
Now if someone would just write a plugin standard that could run on a standard ATI or NVidia GPU
Justin maybe?


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pipelineaudio



Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 60
Re: Reaper new [Re: Koed]
      #420680 - 13/02/07 05:34 PM
I personally would love to see UAD open up their plugs to native, so that any plugs that arent running o n the card could use the card as a dongle and run the plugs native.

When we compare other plugs that can run on PT's DSP to native, it takes a LOT of DSP to equal what were running onboard.

I can run as many waves SSL strips on my dual opteron 248 native as on our PTHD5. Seeing that the PT version of UAD-1 runs about the same as the waves makes me think we could do them native.


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Kariyushi



Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 8
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420683 - 13/02/07 05:50 PM
I am just SO sold on reaper. The new album, having been tracked in Sonar, will be mixed in Reaper. It just works so much smoother than Sonar with far fewer dropouts.
The only thing I'm not sure of is which license to buy...
Does the personal use license still allow you to sell the CD's you make with it?


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tex
active member


Joined: 01/04/03
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Kariyushi]
      #420710 - 13/02/07 06:39 PM
Quote Kariyushi:

I am just SO sold on reaper. The new album, having been tracked in Sonar, will be mixed in Reaper. It just works so much smoother than Sonar with far fewer dropouts.
The only thing I'm not sure of is which license to buy...
Does the personal use license still allow you to sell the CD's you make with it?




I don't think anyone could tell but then the commercial license is still so cheap. It's well worth the money even at the higher price. I think you're ok for personal as long as you haven't bought your own pressing/duplication plants and printing machines etc. I'm sure there's a bit of leeway for "local only" semi pro trade. But if you record someone else for money then definitely buy the commercial.
Also ask on the Reaper site to make sure.

--------------------
Success is round the corner. It's also round the bend.


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deadbeef



Joined: 12/02/07
Posts: 5
Re: Reaper new [Re: Koed]
      #420735 - 13/02/07 07:58 PM
Quote Koed:


I think it'll be a while before you see the downfall of the DSP card. Especialy UAD.
CPU's are not very efficient at handeling floating point operations, that's why everyone has to have a 240watt GPU in their system to play a game
The UAD plugins rely solely on floating point arithmetic and would probably grind any dualcore to a halt.
Try playing some of the recent games with a software mode video driver, maybe the 8 core could do it.





This is pretty inaccurate, actually. Yes, native CPUs aren't going to do graphics for games, but that's a very different thing from the DSP required for processing relatively low samplerate audio.

The whole "CPUs are not very efficient at handling floating point operations" is completely wrong, too..

-Justin


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Henry-S
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420741 - 13/02/07 08:31 PM
Well how can a CPU be bad at handling "plugins"?

Surely if that was the case you would have to use DSP cards? I have coped pretty well without having a DSP card and in my eyes CPU's are only getting faster.

But hey with Reaper you can actually see the tracks that take all the power (very neat feature btw!). I was looking at my amplitube plugin in Cubase and always wondered how much it was taking up (but hey the SX performance bar is pretty silly).

I will say the only thing I am struggling with in Reaper is the MIDI. I just a complete Cubase user, who keeps clicking right mouse and no sodding toolbar comes up lol. However the control over Audio is worth the trade off

Will be buying a license very soon (getting payed Friday yay)

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky


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JosephR



Joined: 23/01/06
Posts: 204
Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #420742 - 13/02/07 08:31 PM
Quote:

Oooh look. Someone who joined today and whose only posts are to flame someone else with a different point of view. We have a word for people like that. Do you remember what it is, children?

That's right. He's a 'Troll'.

Let's not feed him and see if the nasty man goes away.






Sorry i've only just come back to catch up with this thread but i just wanted to say great response Dave B!!!

I'll carry on catching up now, i'm currently 5 days behind so plenty of reading left to do yet...


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ZombieSlugs
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420750 - 13/02/07 08:56 PM
Reaper is an excellent tool, at least for me!

I tend to play my stuff in straight, no real MIDI sequencing at all, and Reaper lets me treat a VSTi->VST->VST chain like a stack of hardware modules, I just record the audio output, then delete the FX and move on. It's wonderful!

I imagine my way of working is a bit different than your average electronic musician, though!

I have no complaints, I paid my money and I'm quite satisfied. when I have friends over they catch on right away and have no problems tracking stuff in, which is wonderful!

--------------------
http://www.zombieslugs.com


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
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Re: Reaper new [Re: deadbeef]
      #420800 - 13/02/07 11:20 PM
Quote deadbeef:

The whole "CPUs are not very efficient at handling floating point operations" is completely wrong, too..





Well I know that the UAD card is in fact an old graphics card. If you look at the circuit board, you can see where the VGA connector is supposed to be and some of the other video IC's. The UAD plugins were written specificaly with the instruction set for that particular GPU.
That's why I don't think they'll be able to convert it to a native format and have it run with any kind of performance on a dualcore.

The new Tigersharks for example run at 2.4Gflops, you can easily stick 8 of them on a card and you'd run at 19.2Gflops.
That's just a tat shy of the current Gflops record held by a quad dualcore Itanium rig.
With the built in parellisme and data bandwith coupled with code that's written specificaly for the chips intstruction set you'd have a cheap card that outperforms the fastest rig experimental itanium rig.

If current Graphic GPU's could be used you're looking at 200Gflops for a standard ATI 7800.


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5716
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420807 - 13/02/07 11:47 PM
Whilst the computing power is certainly ramping up beyond belief, I don't think that we will see DSP based systems go away any time soon. It's been discussed round these parts many a time. If nothing else, the card acts as a dongle. And I for one would like to spread my load around and have no problem with the concept. I think that one of the issues here is that the UAD-1 is now quite old and is creaking under some of it's own plugins' loads.

Now is a very good time for handling large-scale projects. We have a lot of choice - PCI cards, Firewire devices, beefy processors, distributed systems (must test that out next) all have a place to play in the grand scheme of things.

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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Scottdru
Cool Dude


Joined: 17/12/02
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #420826 - 14/02/07 01:41 AM
Quote Dave B:

And I for one would like to spread my load around and have no problem with the concept.



Yes . . . absolutely! Me too! As much as possible, really.




[/coat]

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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Koed



Joined: 09/06/06
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420859 - 14/02/07 08:43 AM


lol..

Oh well.. I'll try ReaMote with an UAD in the remote host and see if it works.


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IvanSC



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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420864 - 14/02/07 08:48 AM
far bve it from me not to be a me-too-er, so I also D?L`d the Reaper demo. First saight it is pretty dern slick and seems more compact and a LOT more sprightly than Sonar which I currently am wrestling with as a relative noob.
However all the MIDI stuff seems to be either absent or very well hidden. I am off overseas for four days tomorrow and will be interested to see if I get any cvomments on the MIDI implementation to reaqd when I get back....

--------------------
Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #420975 - 14/02/07 11:54 AM
Ivan, from what I can tell, the midi stuff is not split out like in other DAWs where you have to tell the s/w that track A is a midi track. In Reaper, it seems that a track is a track with either audio or midi on it and you tell it where you want to route it from / to. It confused me a bit conceptually so I am going to have to rtfm to get my head around it better. But once you realise that, you see that they have basically built it to be incredibly flexible.

HTH (when you get back)

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #420997 - 14/02/07 12:30 PM
Quote Dave B:

Anyway ..... getting back to the point .....

Browsing the documentation last night I came upon the ReaMote entry. What an unexpected bonus - like FX teleport, but free (as opposed to V-Stack)! That's _awfully_ nice of someone to provide. Has anyone tried running that at all?

If I install this on my 'old' machine (or even a new, shiny one) then it should lighten the load of my existing DAW PC. And I like the fact that the documentation actually explains how to calculate the network capacity needed for it to run. Very slick indeed. That will be tonight's little project.




Yip - that's the thing thing with REAPER's bundled plug-ins, there are just so many that it's easy to miss some HUGELY useful tools!

I posted on the REAPER forum saying that the only plug-ins that I thought were missing from the included ones were a good analogue style compressor, and a nice transparent mastering limiter (like Waves L2)...

...and one of the other members politely pointed out (it's a really friendly, non-Troll forum in general) that the included "Major Tom" is in fact a fantastic sounding DBX emulation and "Event Horizon" is a L2 style Limiter!

I have even now only tried out around 50% of the included plug-ins. I find the included Scott Stillwell plugs even better than Julian's 'Rea' plugs (which are already top notch). The Scott Stillwell plugs are Waves standard to my ears. And all for $40 .... it's comical. The REAPER package would be amazing value and quality if you added another zero to that price!

There are still some important things missing (such as MIDI transpose, which at present needs to be done manually by selecting all and dragging), and an internal Dithering capability but these are easily worked around, or plugged by other plug-ins. And the rate of development is FAST!

From using Reaper and it's included plugs and considering it's comically low price, and from picking up the vibe from the forum, it feels like we are in a Golden moment in terms of DAW development. I would not be surprised at all if 3 years from now, Reaper is up there at the top of the DAW league.

DH - Apologies for misinterpreting your comments and thanks for taking my rant in good nature! I just get fed up with the undesirable or negative 'residue' that religion can impart on life, (as a by-product of the positive aspects that religion brings) but I appreciate that your posts were more generally opinions around the developer's marketing choices.

Ivan SC - I use Reaper entirely for MIDI sequencing of VSTi's to which I then add Audio Vocals. MIDI is approached similarly in Reaper as to how it is in Tracktion. It is all there, bar a few awaited features such as automatic Transpose of selected notes.

--------------------
What it says on the tin...


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marsnic
member


Joined: 02/07/03
Posts: 839
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Re: Reaper new [Re: IvanSC]
      #421014 - 14/02/07 01:00 PM
Quote IvanSC:

far bve it from me not to be a me-too-er, so I also D?L`d the Reaper demo. First saight it is pretty dern slick and seems more compact and a LOT more sprightly than Sonar which I currently am wrestling with as a relative noob.
However all the MIDI stuff seems to be either absent or very well hidden. I am off overseas for four days tomorrow and will be interested to see if I get any cvomments on the MIDI implementation to reaqd when I get back....




I found this initially too but when you find out how it's implemented through the FX send of an existing channel, it works really well. i like the fact that you can combine instruments and fx and save them as template. The ease of bouncing the whole thing to audio is fantastic and something that I hate in Cubase. This is one click stuff!!

The only issues I've had so far have been with Stylus RMX. I don't seem to be able to preview loops in the tool itself but have to copy the midi out to the reaper track. This could just be me though.


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Spandau-Staaken



Joined: 15/03/06
Posts: 647
Loc: N.E. U.K.
Re: Reaper new [Re: marsnic]
      #421024 - 14/02/07 01:11 PM
Quote marsnic:

The only issues I've had so far have been with Stylus RMX. I don't seem to be able to preview loops in the tool itself but have to copy the midi out to the reaper track. This could just be me though.




You just need to select "Always run FX" in the Preferences to resolve this.

If this is not set (which it's not by default) you will not be able to audition VSTi's. So selecting this option is essential for RMX, BFD, EZ Drummer, etc.

--------------------
What it says on the tin...


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marsnic
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Joined: 02/07/03
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Spandau-Staaken]
      #421109 - 14/02/07 03:55 PM
Quote David Rogers:

Quote marsnic:

The only issues I've had so far have been with Stylus RMX. I don't seem to be able to preview loops in the tool itself but have to copy the midi out to the reaper track. This could just be me though.




You just need to select "Always run FX" in the Preferences to resolve this.

If this is not set (which it's not by default) you will not be able to audition VSTi's. So selecting this option is essential for RMX, BFD, EZ Drummer, etc.




Fantastic - Thanks

The other thing I really like that I forgot to mention is being able to dock the FX windows. They become tabs which I can actually find. I hate the way I have to click around in Cubse to navigate to FXs and Instruments. This is so much cleaner


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IvanSC



Joined: 08/03/05
Posts: 7854
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #421134 - 14/02/07 04:40 PM
Quote Dave B:

Ivan, from what I can tell, the midi stuff is not split out like in other DAWs where you have to tell the s/w that track A is a midi track. In Reaper, it seems that a track is a track with either audio or midi on it and you tell it where you want to route it from / to. It confused me a bit conceptually so I am going to have to rtfm to get my head around it better. But once you realise that, you see that they have basically built it to be incredibly flexible.

HTH (when you get back)




Blimey! This is the first sequencer I have seen that would appear at first sight to have some things going for it that I could use in addition to what I already have with Bars and Pipes!
Next thing is to check out the actual editing capabilities...
It would appear that you DO need an external audio editor ( I just d/l`d wavepad and so far so good) and I am hoping that the same does not apply to MIDI.
Unfortunately I am a crap pianist ands so I tend to enter my piano parts in step time with a mouse....

--------------------
Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


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Henry-S
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Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421160 - 14/02/07 05:13 PM
After spending yet another evening with this program you really do start to appreciate how things are so customisable.

For example I am not using an external editor for audio and I kept double clicking and ending up getting that window. Simply went into the preferences and saw this little drop down box saying

"on double click, launch audio editor ... or loop selection or do nothing"

so now when I double click an audio part it sets the locators left and right of the audio or midi What a fantastic idea!

There is one problem I am having which has been picked up and thats the whole idea of "a track is a track". Now thats fine, but I am having a real pickle assigning a map. eg in EZDrummer I want to have the gm map setup starting at 20 to 61 and I cannot find any way to do this? I am going to post on the forum or investigate the Wiki they have setup. If anyone knows in here would appreciate how you do it

I love the fact you can click somewhere and then just zoom straight in on that object?

I really think the reason why Reaper works so well is because it actually address's the problems that people experience on other sequencers. If I had to describe it, its like spending say 1 week customising Cubase SX or Sonar but without having to do anything.

If Reaper was as good for Midi as it was Audio then I think I would just totally bin Cubase SX because currently Reaper whoops Cubase on handling Audio

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky


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pipelineaudio



Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 60
Re: Reaper new [Re: Dave B]
      #421383 - 15/02/07 06:33 AM
Quote Dave B:

Ivan, from what I can tell, the midi stuff is not split out like in other DAWs where you have to tell the s/w that track A is a midi track. In Reaper, it seems that a track is a track with either audio or midi on it and you tell it where you want to route it from / to. It confused me a bit conceptually so I am going to have to rtfm to get my head around it better. But once you realise that, you see that they have basically built it to be incredibly flexible.

HTH (when you get back)




you got it perfectly.

I know it is confusing to think this way, but group, folder, audio, fx send, fx return, hardware I/O, MIDI and probably some other things are ALL just "track" in reaper.

All these can be stuck togehter on the same track and often at the same time. It can be painful at first, but often hitting View\Routing Matrix can ease the suffering.

The versatility of this type of setup may be an OVER the top response to the oppression many of us felt, especially in the routing department of our older apps. Once you get used to this system, you can really pull a lot of new tricks with it.

To further the confusion, remember each track in reaper also has 64 internal track channels


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Scottdru
Cool Dude


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Posts: 4392
Loc: NYC: isle off the coast of Eur...
Re: Reaper new [Re: Doublehelix]
      #421386 - 15/02/07 07:22 AM
Ivan, one little hint you might find helpful . . .

So many of the existing features may seem "hidden" at first glance, because they don't have their own dedicated buttons, and there's not a gaggle of "tools" that you need to grab with the mouse each time you want to perform a given task.

So, when you are looking to perform a particular task, try right clicking on the object you want to do something with, and you'll generally get a list of options.

Seems like every time I do this I find some feature that I didn't know was there.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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Scottdru
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Joined: 17/12/02
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Re: Reaper new [Re: marsnic]
      #421387 - 15/02/07 07:40 AM
Quote marsnic:


The other thing I really like that I forgot to mention is being able to dock the FX windows. They become tabs which I can actually find.




In case you haven't discovered this yet, there is a nice thing about the way a docked FX window works.

This is actually something that I was going to submit as a feature request on the REAPER forums, until I realised that what I was looking for was already implemented pretty much in the way I wanted it to work (and is probably a better was to do it than what I was going to suggest, actually)!

If you call up a single FX window from one of the channels and you dock it, you needn't open additional FX windows and dock them as well.

If you have only a single FX window docked, all you have to do is click on the FX button for any given channel, and the docked FX window will switch to showing the FX window for that channel. This is just WAY cool, and it means that you don't have to have a million tabs' worth of docked FX windows!


Quote:


I hate the way I have to click around in Cubse to navigate to FXs and Instruments. This is so much cleaner




I've always hated that about Cubase (particularly VST). Way too many windows to keep track of and have to go retrieve, etc. For this reason, I wouldn't dream of trying to use Cubase seriously without a dual monitor system, and I had even been contemplating adding a third or even fourth monitor to make things easier.

With REAPER, I can actually feel comfortable and get around quickly even working with only a single monitor. And even so, there are some things about the flexible way REAPER seems to deal with working on two monitors that once again spank the bejeezus out of the experience of working with Cubase VST on two monitors!

With Cubase VST, I find that I have to have the main Cubase window spread across both monitors in order for anything I'm working on in Cubase to show up in the second monitor. But, with Reaper, I don't have to do that. I can float the mixer, FX windows, VSTis, or anything else in the secondary monitor without having to spread the main Reaper window across the two monitors. That seems to be a nicer way to work, actually.

--------------------
Scott
--Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5716
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: Reaper new [Re: pipelineaudio]
      #421393 - 15/02/07 08:06 AM
Quote pipelineaudio:

I know it is confusing to think this way, but group, folder, audio, fx send, fx return, hardware I/O, MIDI and probably some other things are ALL just "track" in reaper.




Actually, it makes a lot of sense when you break out of the 'midi is midi, audio is audio' mentality. I've been reading posts where people have vocoders and gates and the whole 'homogenised' approach makes all this routing a doddle. And I want to kiss whoever decided that you can see not only where you are routing to, but what else is routed to the track and allow it to be altered! If you can just break that panel up into tabs (for those of us with lots of ins/outs), I reckon it would be perfect.

Quote pipelineaudio:

All these can be stuck togehter on the same track and often at the same time. It can be painful at first, but often hitting View\Routing Matrix can ease the suffering.




Actually, I've hardly used the Matrix panel which is kind of odd as it's one of the primary windows. That must say something about how easy it is to route then ...

Quote pipelineaudio:

To further the confusion, remember each track in reaper also has 64 internal track channels




Ooohh .... my brain hurts ...

Anyway, I've been busy last night, so I'll be ReaMoting tonight instead. Looking forward to that.

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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