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Jeraldo



Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 2338
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Fotografics]
      #457855 - 09/05/07 02:05 AM
Quote Fotografics:

Damn!

For heaven's sake Jeraldo, she's doing what writers call "research". She turns up where (supposedly) experts congregate and asks for opinions.




So then, since she's turned up here, why isn't she reading what has been already written?

She is doing no research at all. She wants to be spoon fed information that's right here if she'd the motivation (or maybe awareness) to read it.

So, I guess she wants all of us to look over our own posts of several years, think about them carefully, pick out the best ones (based on what?) and then give her the distilled nuggets of wisdom?

She can read, right? She must be able to write, but I hope that's not only achieved by someone else's dictation.


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Gelled_Fringe



Joined: 08/11/04
Posts: 442
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #457858 - 09/05/07 03:15 AM
wow what a strange post...I recommend a long walk in the fresh air.

It's all very well to say the recording industry is full of bogus information, hyped products, scam merchants etc, but then you could say that about any industry really - in business you learn by your mistakes and from the actions of others, that are often shady as hell, but that's life!

I don't see why recording should be held as this sacred garden of truth where everyone is all peace and love?


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* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #457861 - 09/05/07 05:07 AM
Quote Barish:

Why don't you write a book about things that you yourself have knowledge and experience?

Like about cooking or removing lipstick stains or something?





Wow. Bet that deep sensitive side of your nature makes you a real hit with the ladies.

This post and several others from slightly less vocal forum members truly give the impression that some people have a knee jerk reaction to the idea of (god forbid) a woman getting stuck into music tech. It'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing.



Edited by reid (09/05/07 05:18 AM)


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IvanSC



Joined: 08/03/05
Posts: 7791
Loc: UK France & USA depending on t...
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: __]
      #457862 - 09/05/07 05:41 AM
Quote ow:

Victoria Wood has just done a very informative set of TV documentaries on the Bristish Empire. She isn't an expert on the Empire, it has taken the form of a journey of enlightenment.




Yeah but like Tony Robinson, who I knew reasonably well when he first got the time team gig, she is there to be a talking head, not to write and produce the show.

I find myself having really mixed feelings about this one.
More power to the lady for gettiong Virgin to front her on this one (assuming she has actually had any sort of advance) but, as others have pointed out, I would like to see what her expertise or her particular take on the subject is that will bring something to it that hasn`t already been done before and better.

--------------------
Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


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__
Who's never been here


Joined: 28/11/02
Posts: 6263
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: IvanSC]
      #457867 - 09/05/07 07:02 AM
Quote IvanSC:

Quote ow:

Victoria Wood has just done a very informative set of TV documentaries on the Bristish Empire. She isn't an expert on the Empire, it has taken the form of a journey of enlightenment.




...she is there to be a talking head...




Ok fair point, that was a bad example.


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4339
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #457881 - 09/05/07 07:42 AM
Poor Nicola! Maybe she'll write a book on miserable people on a 'well-known audio Forum'

Anyway, Nicola, PM me if you want some help ...

--------------------
Facebok Page for acoustic music PA-ing in smaller venues


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #457896 - 09/05/07 08:05 AM
Quote Barish:

If you are looking for tips that worked for the person who gave them to you, I think you need to be a bit more generous than offering a "hey, but you'll be featured! Cool, huh?"




Speaking as someone who has done just that (been quoted in books and not paid) I find that pretty offensive.

Just because one is willing to contribute for the goodwill doesn't make one a "desperate loser bedroom guitarist advisor with a crack Cubase" or whatever the equivalent would be in my case.

In fact the whole of your post is fairly repellent.

Quote RegressiveRock:

I am genuinely ashamed that I have recommended this forum to people.


It's stopping from today.




I'm with you there Reg. Here I am adding to my Ignore List thinking "what's the point"?

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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Tim.



Joined: 14/11/02
Posts: 2458
Loc: Not here
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #457900 - 09/05/07 08:10 AM
If any individual can’t express their opinion without being highly offensive then their membership of the forum will be in jeopardy. All those who have acted irresponsibly can consider this message a warning.

--------------------
Studio: www.kymatasound.com


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #457903 - 09/05/07 08:12 AM
Quote Barish:

Why don't you write a book about things that you yourself have knowledge and experience?

Like about cooking or removing lipstick stains or something?


If you are looking for tips that worked for the person who gave them to you, I think you need to be a bit more generous than offering a "hey, but you'll be featured! Cool, huh?"




Barish, I am writing as a moderator, and as someone who is frankly personally ashamed to have anything to do with this forum right now. Your comments are gratuitously sexist and are calculated to cause offence to Nicola. That is well out of order and contrary to the forum rules to which you have signed up.

FWIW Nicola is a respected music journalist and published author. She is guilty of nothing worse than asking for some help. If you don't want to help, you don't have to.

She has not come here to insult you and does not deserve to be insulted by you.

In any event, consider this a formal warning: any repetition and you get banned.

And that goes for anyone else who thinks such conduct is an appropriate way to welcome a new forum contributor. She's a respected music journalist and published author and, I would once have imagined, might have been welcomed to this forum with open arms.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


Edited by Steve Hill (09/05/07 08:14 AM)


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__
Who's never been here


Joined: 28/11/02
Posts: 6263
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #457911 - 09/05/07 08:30 AM
I would like to bring everones attention to the Subject Line of this thread.

"...Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part..."

It doesnt say...

"...Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for tossers to take part..."


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Pangloss
new member


Joined: 11/07/01
Posts: 736
Loc: London
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #457912 - 09/05/07 08:33 AM
Hi Nicola,

I would just like to let you know that in the 5 or so years I have been hanging around this forum I have never been refused any help. Both those those making positive and negative comments on this particular thread have been a mine of good information in the past. Not least Barish.

What I would suggest is that you could field a few specific questions here and I think you will see some answers coming in fairly promptly.

In return, can I suggest you come back here some time and chip in on other subjects. The "music business" forum would definitely benefit from the opinions of someone with your industry experience.

Good luck and all that.

Alec


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majr



Joined: 28/09/06
Posts: 183
Loc: Halley Research Station, Brunt...
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #457916 - 09/05/07 08:41 AM
Quote Barish:

Why don't you write a book about things that you yourself have knowledge and experience?

Like about cooking or removing lipstick stains or something?


B.




That could well be the most incredible post I have ever read on any forum. It bring a whole new meaning to the term out of order, you should trully be ashamed.
Mat.


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10711
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #457945 - 09/05/07 09:39 AM
Nicola has made the typical internet newbie mistake of jumping in and posting on a forum that she hasn't been lurking on for a while and has therefore come up against this particular forums reluctance to spoon feed people answers - especially if they are new members with no history. If she had lurked for a while before posting she would probably have phrased her initial posting in a different way which would have kept people a little happier.

I'm a little surprised that Nicola made this basic mistake given her supposed extensive knowledge of all things digital but that doesn't excuse the reception that she received. All posters should remember that there is a human being on the other side of the keyboard with feelings and emotions. Think how you would feel if some of the messages on this thread had been directed towards you. I'd like to think that we're not usually this unfriendly.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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Barish
Kebab Mafia


Joined: 04/03/03
Posts: 698
Loc: Istanbul, TR
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: James Perrett]
      #457957 - 09/05/07 09:56 AM
Dear Nicola,

I sincerely apologise for my harsh words towards you.

When you said that:

Quote Nicola Slade:

Hello again,
I'm not prepared to disclose the nature of the deal I have with Virgin, since it's my business. However, I am already a published author and journalist, so I'm above board, if that's what you're asking. This book is aimed newcomers to home recording. It will cover the basics to get someone off the ground. It's not meant to be the last word, or a 'bible' so to speak.
Sure, there might not be 'anything in it for you', but I like to give people the opportunity to make suggestions and potentially, be featured.
Thanks
Nicola




...I had the impression that you were getting "hey, I'm a published writer, and not you, you know, and I have the deal and I'm giving you guys a 15-minutes-of-fame opportunity here, let's see what you can provide first, and then may be you'll get mentioned too, that's not bad for someone "below" the board, huh?" on us, taking for granted what kind of valuable information you might be supplied in the process, and how much it might have cost to the information supplier to be able to provide that piece of information to you, as you may appreciate that it takes quite an investment to be able to accummulate the information you require to write your book and do your "business". So, naturally I took this as an insult.

But I was wrong.

Your intentions were sincere, and I have misread. And either way, I shouldn't have replied to an insult with a counter-insult anyway.

That's why I realize I owe you an apology, and here I am returning it. Please accept my apologies.

And I would like to despise the members of the forum whom were not dazzled... uh, sorry, impressed, by this generous "15-minutes-of-fame opportunity offered", and built me up for such a burst with their initial reactionist posts.

Thank you.

B.


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jellyjim
active member


Joined: 15/05/02
Posts: 2990
Loc: uk
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #457959 - 09/05/07 10:09 AM
unsubscribe

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com


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* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #457965 - 09/05/07 10:22 AM
Quote Barish:

And I would like to despise the members of the forum whom were not dazzled... uh, sorry, impressed, by this generous "15-minutes-of-fame opportunity offered", and built me up for such a burst with their initial reactionist posts.




I don't quite get this bit - so correct me if I'm wrong - but are you trying to dump some of the blame for your misogynistic attitude on to other forum members?

I think you need to look a little closer to home fella.


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: James Perrett]
      #457981 - 09/05/07 11:20 AM
Quote James Perrett:

Nicola has made the typical internet newbie mistake...




I wouldn't take the negative response to mean it was a mistake on her part.

She has a commission, she will complete her book, some people from here will be featured I don't doubt... and many won't.

So who loses out? The forum. Any mistake is ours.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #457990 - 09/05/07 11:39 AM
Quote Rob C.:

some people from here will be featured I don't doubt...




Possibly not in the way they might have hoped for!

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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Doublehelix



Joined: 04/12/02
Posts: 4162
Loc: USA
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #457995 - 09/05/07 11:47 AM
I am also ashamed of this place and some of its members right about now. I thought we were above all that. That is one of the reasons I consider this place to be "home" for me rather than some of those other places filled with immature twits.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~


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Fotografics



Joined: 17/12/06
Posts: 446
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #457998 - 09/05/07 11:48 AM
Nicola,

I sometimes wonder why people come to this forum. In my case it's to learn from people who know what they're talking about and, without hesitation I'll mention Steve Hill and John Willett as examples of people who take the time to explain things to newbies like me. Those aren't the only ones, there are a lot of friendly helpful people here and I don't want to list them because I'll leave someone out and they'll get upset and...

Then there are those who just like to massage their egos, usually looking down their noses at people like me, telling us that our equipment's too low-end and that we should either devote our entire lives to sound recording or go away.

I suspect that Nicola has looked through the forum archives but there's an awful lot of dross there as well as the occasional nugget of gold. If I want to know something, usually I'll start a new thread, why not? If you are so busy recording that you can't answer my question, then just ignore me. Unfortunately many people don't and will gladly take some of their precious time to tell me that I'm an amateur, and to stop wasting their time. The true experts take time to slowly and clearly answer my questions.

This thread has been quite revealing and has opened my eyes to various truths. The main one being that those who can do it, and are secure in their knowledge and position, pass the information on, comfortable knowing that they are top league and have nothing to worry about from newbies. Those who are only surviving with minimal knowledge and skill are worried that they'll be usurped and thus treat newcomers with suspicion and aggression.

Nicola, As one of the CRAP (Contentedly Recording Amateur Performances) newbies I've had sound advice from the two gods mentioned above as well as many, many others.
PM those who were nice to you and you'll get information worth listening to, the rude ones aren't worth bothering with anyway.


PS: The only tip I can give about home recording is: Never, ever, let your other half know how much the gear REALLY cost!


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Barish
Kebab Mafia


Joined: 04/03/03
Posts: 698
Loc: Istanbul, TR
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #458003 - 09/05/07 11:56 AM
Quote Rob C.:

Quote James Perrett:

Nicola has made the typical internet newbie mistake...




I wouldn't take the negative response to mean it was a mistake on her part.

She has a commission, she will complete her book, some people from here will be featured I don't doubt... and many won't.

So who loses out? The forum. Any mistake is ours.




I don't think that the forum loses anything because of this, for it was not offered anything in the first place.


...unless you consider getting featured in a Virgin publication for free is a damn good achievement for your home studio investment, securing a "pro" author her contract in the process.

I don't believe that any home recordist has any dues to pay to anyone, and what adds insult to injury there is that the initiation is done through an image created as if people are really getting involved in something so beneficial for public.

No such thing. It is strictly business, which she is not even prepared to discuss.

She means, the home recordists do the public service and she gets paid for documenting it. And Virgin Publishing owns the rights to pass our home recordists' experiences to third parties for a price. And our poor home recordists go down to Borders and pay Virgin to buy their own experiences back in printed format so that they can show it to friends and relatives and brag about it.



And those who were not featured will pay to read how an underachievement is successfully packed and presented back as an achievement worth reading. A "useful" home recording advice about how to keep your recordings at home recordist level successfully.


Thank you very much Andy Warhol.


Come on Rob, you've been trying to teach independent musicians how they should look into making money. I would expect you to spin this.

I apologise for my offensive earlier words, but on the other notes, I maintain my stance.


I think Nicola's approach was very cheeky.

B.


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Huge Longjohns
long-serving member


Joined: 10/04/03
Posts: 1946
Loc: Where the black rocks stand gu...
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458058 - 09/05/07 12:43 PM
There is no excuse WHATSOEVER for Barish's sexist remarks. It doesn't matter what any of us think of Nicola's intentions, her CV, her way of phrasing her questions or anything else. If his remarks had been of a similar vein and directed towards a black or jewish visitor to the forum he, and potentially the forum as publisher, could be in serious trouble with mr plod. But because Nicola is a woman he is allowed to be as offensive as he wishes and remain a member of the forum. I am gobsmacked.

--------------------
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain


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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1028
Loc: Dublin
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #458094 - 09/05/07 01:50 PM
Quote Barish:


I think Nicola's approach was very cheeky.





I agree. But if we share info on this forum, why shouldn't we share it with Nicola?

We're all musicians/producers trying to make the best music we can. Many of us put in very long hours for very little financial reward. We share info on this forum because we love making music and as part of a we're-all-in-this-together vibe...

For an outsider (Nicola Slade/Virgin Publishing) to seek to profit from our knowledge is a different matter altogether.

I respect that she was upfront about her intentions. But that upfront honesty only goes to show how people (esp MEDIA TYPES) blatantly expect musicians to do stuff for NOTHING - because they assume we're all desperate for a break, "who knows where this might lead?" etc.

The big break in this case is a mention (at best) in her book. What kind of a sap would take the considerable time required to provide details of their experience, equipment, working methods etc etc just to see their name in print (possibly)?

Anyone providing such information is perpetuating the idea that musicians are simple, smiley folk who are scared of business, have a lot of time on their hands, and are happy with the occasional pat on the head.


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Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 2954
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458107 - 09/05/07 02:10 PM
For the record I have no problem whatsoever with Nicola's request, clearly the moderators don't either, and she was not in breach of any forum rules. Out of courtesy she could've notified the mods before posting, but that is a very, very minor point.

I am shocked and offended by the negative responses, all of which are unfounded and many of which have crossed over into insulting and bigotted, particularly Barish. That was not an apology that he posted. This is how he behaves on many forums, always on the edge of being banned and incapable of admitting to mistakes, of which he makes many.

All of these negative responses are a far more serious transgression of forum etiquette, and basic decency, than Nicola's ever was.

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10711
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #458108 - 09/05/07 02:13 PM
Quote Rob C.:

Quote James Perrett:

Nicola has made the typical internet newbie mistake...




I wouldn't take the negative response to mean it was a mistake on her part.

She has a commission, she will complete her book, some people from here will be featured I don't doubt... and many won't.

So who loses out? The forum. Any mistake is ours.




I'm not trying to excuse the behaviour here but I have a few more thoughts on the subject.

There seems to be a feeling on this forum that we don't do people's homework questions or research for them. Anyone asking such a question is usually given short shrift. This is in contrast to other forums that I've seen where people asking this sort of question are given a much easier time. Apart from this unwritten facet of the forum, this place tends to be one of the friendlier places to be. Nicola has come along with just the sort of question that raises people's hackles because, from its phrasing, it appears to be asking us to do some of her work for her.

Now the best contrast I can draw is with Bob Katz's research for his much acclaimed Mastering Audio book. OK - so Bob knows a fair bit about the subject to start with but there are plenty of areas where he openly admits that his knowledge could do with some help. So he will ask for help on a forum much like this. However, Bob's question will be much more specific and it will be obvious that he's tried to find the answer before asking the forum. His questions are always thought provoking and won't always have cut and dried answers anyway. He will always give credit to the original author to anything that is used in the book. He is also known as an established member of the forum where he asks these questions who will give as much knowledge back to the forum as he takes from it.

It would be interesting to see the response to Nicola's request from some of the other home recording forums out there.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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Barish
Kebab Mafia


Joined: 04/03/03
Posts: 698
Loc: Istanbul, TR
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Tomás Mulcahy]
      #458115 - 09/05/07 02:21 PM
Yes I admit to have a problem with political correctness, and that causes trouble at times.

However, in this moral pallette that you are painting, Tomas, where do you put your passing of third party information as your own in internet forums in order to impose yourself as an "expert" of equipment that you have no first hand knowledge, nor experience? Could it be that you see this occasion as an opportunity to get the revenge of a past incidence in which you and I were both involved?

May be Nicola would want to know more details about some forumees whom might be in touch with her since she placed her appeal.

May be my excessive behaviour gives her a chance to judge the healthiness of the information she could get from people she met via forums.

May be the fact that I am not banned despite all the trouble I cause is not as bad as some people might think.

What do you say?

Thank you.

B.


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directresolution.com



Joined: 13/09/06
Posts: 594
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #458121 - 09/05/07 02:37 PM

The most activity of all topics on this forum has very little to do with recording music.

The 2nd most popular topic? an apology thread for the aforementioned post!

I don't think she was sneaky, that would have been to garner information posing as someone wanting personal help with their setup. I do think that the original post/question came across as condescending and put everyone straight on the back foot. Maybe she is actually writing a book on forum etiquette and this has actually provided lots of useful information. Hold that thought I think I'm going to write that book, if you see some provocative post spring up you ain't seen me, right!

--------------------
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home of the DARC audio computer


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R. Spisketts



Joined: 29/01/05
Posts: 1319
Loc: Southsea
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Evie McCreevie]
      #458133 - 09/05/07 03:25 PM
Quote Evie McCreevie:

What kind of a sap would take the considerable time required to provide details of their experience, equipment, working methods etc etc just to see their name in print (possibly)?

Anyone providing such information is perpetuating the idea that musicians are simple, smiley folk who are scared of business, have a lot of time on their hands, and are happy with the occasional pat on the head.




Hello, real world calling SOS Forum. Come in SOS Forum. Do you read? Hello?

As has already been pointed out, this kind of approach is very common. Who says it would consume a lot of your time? Probably somewhat less than taking part in this stupid bloody thread. Filling in an email or online questionnaire. Writing one or two 100 word anecdotes - ie somewhat less wordy than some of the idiotic responses here.

What's wrong with seeing your name in print? Give a little, get a little. Where's the problem?

I know plenty of people who do this kind of thing all time, in the real world that is - where it would seem people have a little more generosity of spirit and a more grounded sense of the true value of their ability/experience.

--------------------
Funk this, arm half due wink a trump


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3021
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458139 - 09/05/07 03:40 PM
People being a bit self-righteous in this thread? Barish rude and sexist for sure... but come on lads, no need to huff and puff quite so much, surely!

Would you be sticking up for Nicola if she wasn't a bird? Eh? Thought not!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #458152 - 09/05/07 04:00 PM
Quote Barish:

Quote Rob C.:

Quote James Perrett:

Nicola has made the typical internet newbie mistake...




I wouldn't take the negative response to mean it was a mistake on her part.

She has a commission, she will complete her book, some people from here will be featured I don't doubt... and many won't.

So who loses out? The forum. Any mistake is ours.




I don't think that the forum loses anything because of this, for it was not offered anything in the first place.




You don't need to be offered something to lose out.

The forum loses out because this thread is the very opposite of a welcome mat for newbies and pros alike. Even one of the mods has said, and confirmed, that before posting here you need to learn the ropes and tread on eggshells. That's a bad thing.

The forum also loses out because a veteran of the music business with significant experience has been given the finger by a few bitter, disgruntled, narrow minds.

Don't connect my site with that kind of blinkered resentment towards success. My message is a positive one. Get involved is a good slogan. This is nothing to do with "pay for play" or getting ripped off. If anyone here thinks there's money in writing about what they do the world is their lobster. You won't get anywhere simply attacking someone else who has got off their backside and found a publisher.

Quote Richard Graham:

People being a bit self-righteous in this thread? Barish rude and sexist for sure... but come on lads, no need to huff and puff quite so much, surely!




Perhaps women are unusual in your world Richard, but not in mine. And maybe it's not unusual to see a new poster attacked around here, but that doesn't mean we're self-righteous to point out the stupidity of it.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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Barish
Kebab Mafia


Joined: 04/03/03
Posts: 698
Loc: Istanbul, TR
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #458153 - 09/05/07 04:05 PM
Rob,

With all due respect, what is the difference between this, and saying

"I've got a record deal but I don't know how to compose or perform songs, but I'm a pretty good listener. I'm half way through the project now, I've listened quite a lot of other songs and I have a pretty good idea what kind of songs I want in the album. Would you guys get involved? Uh, by the way, I keep the masters, royalties and the advance cheque, and you may get credited on the album cover. Pretty cool deal, huh? Well you know, I'm already published and you are not, so... you know..."

B.


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458162 - 09/05/07 04:21 PM
Nicola's opening post said "if you would like... to get involved" send her an email, and referred to a series of questions.

Out of interest I did email her and answered her 15 questions, in about 10 minutes.

The people who are moaning here about giving up their valuable time to help her in exchange for a possible mention in her book (a book which is clearly damned in advance of anybody actually reading it) -

(a) obviously would not "like" to get involved, so all they have to do is ignore the request and move on to another thread; and

(b) are spending far more time bitching and moaning about Nicola and her motives (as they speculate them to be) than it would have taken to have requested her questionnaire, completed it, and returned it.

If you think any of that is a "valuable" use of your time I suggest you're spending far too much time in internet forums and not enough time making music or something.

Nobody's shoving anything down your throat here. There is nothing remotely cheeky about Nicola asking for help in this way.

And if the original post had been from Bob Katz or Steve Albini, how many of you would have been fawning all over him to get your personal nuggets of wisdom into the book? Jeez!

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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Matcher



Joined: 11/05/05
Posts: 445
Loc: Finland
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #458164 - 09/05/07 04:23 PM
Reading this thread got me thinking I might write a book about home recording too, in my native language. I know a lot about it and I've written a couple of well received articles in magazines. The industry is moving forward so fast that it's ok to publish a new book about the subject each year, and I believe there hasn't been one in a while in Finnish.

Thanks for the food for though


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #458168 - 09/05/07 04:31 PM
Quote Barish:

With all due respect, what is the difference between this, and saying

"I've got a record deal but I don't know how to compose or perform songs, but I'm a pretty good listener. I'm half way through the project now, I've listened quite a lot of other songs and I have a pretty good idea what kind of songs I want in the album. Would you guys get involved? Uh, by the way, I keep the masters, royalties and the advance cheque, and you may get credited on the album cover. Pretty cool deal, huh? Well you know, I'm already published and you are not, so... you know..."




All the difference in the world. A book is not a record. A 'how-to' book about Home Recording would obviously include examples of people who do home recording. I have no idea how she's going to write the book but I understand the technique very well. And if you read books you'll probably know it too.

If you were writing a book about old churches you'd probably draft a few chapters, get commissioned by a publisher and then go round and interview a bunch of interesting doddery rectors. The quotes and pictures aren't the whole book. None of the individuals would be worth anything to the publisher without the idea, structure, narrative, legwork and glue. That's how it works.

It's how the frigging SOS magazine works. Do you imagine that everyone interviewed or quoted in a sidebar in SOS gets a cut of the cover price? You're living in a dream world. Wasn't there a "reader's home studio" column? I strongly suggest that Paul and Hugh take a baseball bat to deal with the Studio SOS subject who now thinks that their problems are worth a few bob.

A record by an artist or a group is expected to be their original artistic work. A real world guide book to any subject isn't expected to come out of the head of the author. How could it? Denizens Of The Transport Cafés of Scotland... all made up by me without talking to anybody? Dream on.

Quote Barish:

...you may get credited on the album cover.




I think she made it clear that contributors would get credited. That's also normal in books.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1028
Loc: Dublin
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: R. Spisketts]
      #458195 - 09/05/07 05:31 PM
Quote ECC83:

Quote Evie McCreevie:

What kind of a sap would take the considerable time required to provide details of their experience, equipment, working methods etc etc just to see their name in print (possibly)?

Anyone providing such information is perpetuating the idea that musicians are simple, smiley folk who are scared of business, have a lot of time on their hands, and are happy with the occasional pat on the head.




Hello, real world calling SOS Forum. Come in SOS Forum. Do you read? Hello?

As has already been pointed out, this kind of approach is very common. Who says it would consume a lot of your time? Probably somewhat less than taking part in this stupid bloody thread. Filling in an email or online questionnaire. Writing one or two 100 word anecdotes - ie somewhat less wordy than some of the idiotic responses here.

What's wrong with seeing your name in print? Give a little, get a little. Where's the problem?

I know plenty of people who do this kind of thing all time, in the real world that is - where it would seem people have a little more generosity of spirit and a more grounded sense of the true value of their ability/experience.




You mean you personally know "plenty of people" who willingly contribute to other people's books - for nothing - "all the time"? Well, they do say there's one born every minute!

This forum wouldn't exist but for its members' "generosity of spirit". Saying NO and objecting to Nicola's appeal for info does not necessarily betray an "ungrounded sense of the true value of one's ability/experience" - it's just an honest reaction to a slightly dodgy request.

"Get involved!" - yeah sure. Let's all have loads of fun making a book for Virgin! It's just corporate recruitment-speak along the lines of "Join our team!" and "Opportunity!" typically used to disguise the fact that you're being asked to do unpaid/low paid work.

Finally ECC83, when next I try to profit by asking someone I don't know to do something for me for nothing - and they refuse - I'll remember to remark upon their lack of "generosity of spirit".


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R. Spisketts



Joined: 29/01/05
Posts: 1319
Loc: Southsea
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458212 - 09/05/07 06:06 PM
Evie,

Jeez, I think the point has been hammered home that no-one is asking you for anything of great value, just to participate in, for example, an online questionnaire, or to write a small anecdote about your experiences or techniques.

You are not being asked to write the book for free, or to even write a chapter for free, or to contribute anything of significant value for no return.

Unless you are fortunate enough to be able to command great sums for such work - are you famous perchance? Do you regularly bank large cheques for, say, writing 300 word forewords to books such as the one discussed in this thread?

You are not compiling the book. The author and publisher do that. The value of the book lies in the research, how its presented, etc, etc - again, I think this has been explained pretty clearly by Rob C.

Just because you know, as an example, how to bung up a couple of duvets to make an adhoc vocal recording environment, and can just about string together a description thereof, does not mean you are entitled to a big payday.

Yes, people give freely in the forum. However, to a newcomer, as a source of information on a single subject such as home recording, it has approximately zero value - the signal to noise ratio is too low, much of the information is contradictory and is thinly spread and hard to find.

Yes, I know plenty of people who have contributed to journals and books in my field, for free. These are smart guys at the top of their game, happy to share much more than is being asked here.

Clearly you feel differently, or understand the book project differently, or both. Perhaps you could give an example of something you might contribute to such a book, and why, if you did so, you would be a mug?

--------------------
Funk this, arm half due wink a trump


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4339
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458227 - 09/05/07 06:33 PM
Sod this for a game of soldiers. What a load of miserable sods some of you are. I'm off, in embarrassment and anger.


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Barish
Kebab Mafia


Joined: 04/03/03
Posts: 698
Loc: Istanbul, TR
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #458258 - 09/05/07 07:32 PM
Quote Rob C.:

Quote Barish:

With all due respect, what is the difference between this, and saying

"I've got a record deal but I don't know how to compose or perform songs, but I'm a pretty good listener. I'm half way through the project now, I've listened quite a lot of other songs and I have a pretty good idea what kind of songs I want in the album. Would you guys get involved? Uh, by the way, I keep the masters, royalties and the advance cheque, and you may get credited on the album cover. Pretty cool deal, huh? Well you know, I'm already published and you are not, so... you know..."




All the difference in the world. A book is not a record. A 'how-to' book about Home Recording would obviously include examples of people who do home recording. I have no idea how she's going to write the book but I understand the technique very well. And if you read books you'll probably know it too.

If you were writing a book about old churches you'd probably draft a few chapters, get commissioned by a publisher and then go round and interview a bunch of interesting doddery rectors. The quotes and pictures aren't the whole book. None of the individuals would be worth anything to the publisher without the idea, structure, narrative, legwork and glue. That's how it works.

It's how the frigging SOS magazine works. Do you imagine that everyone interviewed or quoted in a sidebar in SOS gets a cut of the cover price? You're living in a dream world. Wasn't there a "reader's home studio" column? I strongly suggest that Paul and Hugh take a baseball bat to deal with the Studio SOS subject who now thinks that their problems are worth a few bob.

A record by an artist or a group is expected to be their original artistic work. A real world guide book to any subject isn't expected to come out of the head of the author. How could it? Denizens Of The Transport Cafés of Scotland... all made up by me without talking to anybody? Dream on.

Quote Barish:

...you may get credited on the album cover.




I think she made it clear that contributors would get credited. That's also normal in books.




Fair point. Thanks for the explanation Rob.

I accept my judgment to be wrong in this issue, and apologise for the distress caused.

B.


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Evie McCreevie]
      #458265 - 09/05/07 07:42 PM
Evie. In another life I have been/am cited in lots of peoples publications without ever having been paid and do you know what - I don't give a toss? I am actually proud to have been made one of only 8 ever honorary life members of a particular worldwide professional association as a thank-you for some stuff I did.

Money did not enter into it. Doing something worthwhile did.

If you are only prepared to get out of bed in the morning if someone pays to do so that's your choice. But don't expect me to sympathise with your f***ed up value system - it stinks.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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Aural Reject



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4208
Loc: Lancashire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #458273 - 09/05/07 07:50 PM
I don't get paid (extra) when my name appears on a scientific publication or patent.....to which I'll have had significant input, nor do I get citation fees (more's the pity ) which is the equivalent to the book contribution.


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