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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1029
Loc: Dublin
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: R. Spisketts]
      #458333 - 09/05/07 09:57 PM
Hi ECC83 - thanks for your considered reply. I'll try to respond:

"...no-one is asking you for anything of great value, just to ... write a small anecdote about your experiences or techniques."

Frankly, I think my experiences are of value. There's not much point in having them otherwise! If they weren't of value, why is Nicola looking for them?

"You are not being asked to contribute anything of significant value for no return."

That's exactly what we're being asked.

"You are not compiling the book. The author and publisher do that. The value of the book lies in the research, how its presented, etc, etc..."

Surely those who contribute to that research can expect some small compensation, if their info is of worth printing?

"Just because you know, as an example, how to bung up a couple of duvets to make an adhoc vocal recording environment, and can just about string together a description thereof, does not mean you are entitled to a big payday."

Because I do know, as an example, how to make something crap sound reasonable, and something good sound great, means I AM entitled to some compensation if the person with whom I am sharing this information seeks to make a profit by publishing it in book form.

"Yes, people give freely in the forum. However, to a newcomer, as a source of information on a single subject such as home recording, it has approximately zero value - the signal to noise ratio is too low, much of the information is contradictory and is thinly spread and hard to find."

I understand that is WHY she posted the request on this forum. Whether she SHOULD have done so is a different matter.

"Yes, I know plenty of people who have contributed to journals and books in my field, for free. These are smart guys at the top of their game, happy to share much more than is being asked here."

OK I accept that. If a friend or acquaintance asked me the same, I'd probably be happy to oblige. But a total stranger working for Virgin Publishing? Not so much...

"Clearly you feel differently, or understand the book project differently, or both. Perhaps you could give an example of something you might contribute to such a book, and why, if you did so, you would be a mug?"

As I understand it, this is a commercial venture through which both the author and publisher hope to make a profit. There is nothing altruistic about it. To exploit the altruistic nature of this forum and its members is abusive.

Finally, I daresay there are indeed a number of ways in which I could contribute to the book if I wished. However, I would be a mug to do so as I don't know Nicola Slade, nor do I owe Virgin Publishing any favours. No payment is being offered, and I'm not a teenager excited by the prospect of seeing my name in print.

Contributing to this business venture just reinforces the idea that musicians should be REALLY NICE GUYS desperately eager to do stuff for nothing. Virgin could easily pay a proper music tech writer to write the book. Sod them.


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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1029
Loc: Dublin
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #458335 - 09/05/07 10:05 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

Evie. In another life I have been/am cited in lots of peoples publications without ever having been paid and do you know what - I don't give a toss? I am actually proud to have been made one of only 8 ever honorary life members of a particular worldwide professional association as a thank-you for some stuff I did.

Money did not enter into it. Doing something worthwhile did.

If you are only prepared to get out of bed in the morning if someone pays to do so that's your choice. But don't expect me to sympathise with your f***ed up value system - it stinks.




Money does enter into it - that's the whole point. She's getting paid, Virgin make a profit.

What's so terribly worthwhile about another book on home recording? It's not saving the world.

Finally, I get out of bed for nothing most of the time... Objecting to this request for the reasons stated does not make me a breadhead, man.


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458371 - 09/05/07 11:13 PM
Dear me! What a kerfuffle (as Nicola put it)!

It's been said before but bears repeating - if you're offended by Nicola's post, ignore it. Otherwise drop her a line and contribute if you feel so inclined.

I am not sure that *I* will as I am not sure I have much to contribute.... but not because I am offended or insulted by Nicola's post. In fact, she was very upfront about it and could just as easily sneaked in anonymously pretending to be something she isn't to get what she wanted and then buggered off to take all the glory.

Many things are created through altruistic contribution. In my line of the business (sound library development), people do favours for each other all the time, even between rival companies. SOS have been in touch with me about some letter/email they've received from a reader about Akai gear and I give my time and knowledge freely to help both the mag and the user. The music biz (and most others) work on this basis. I also get loads of email asking something about synths or sampling, whatever - should I tell 'em to fck off or send 'em an invoice with my reply? If the enquirer is a real scrote, I just ignore them and delete and move on.

Many, many books, biographies, newspaper and magazine articles, etc., are written this way as RobC pointed out and contributors often receive nothing more than a namecheck - it's standard practice in publishing. I have written many an article for SOS and I call up people all the time for their opinion, experience, whatever - they don't get all arsey on me and ask "What's it worth to me?". They give their time generously. And likewise, people call me up and I do the same. It's how it works. Get over it!

The bottom line here though as I see it is that Nicola was totally upfront (and why should she reveal her contractual and financial arrangements with Virgin for all to see - I'll bet it won't buy her a Ferrari ... or even a second-hand Ford Focus!). If you're not happy with her approach, ignore it else choose to join in or not as you choose.

I happen to think that the shoddy treatment she has received here will do a disservice to the recording community if it inclines Nicola to take advice from other forums populated by numpty 'yoofs' with cracked software. A book written with contributions from some of the major players that hang out here here would be something worth having and may well help and inspire people to dive in and get recording ... which will, in turn, be good for the industry which in turn helps those who contribute.... and those that didn't!

I just hope Nicola's not put off by what I consider to be a rather uncharacteristic display of bad manners here by some and I hope that she does get some help and support from those who would rather spend their time contributing to her book in a meaningful way than wittering on at length and attempting to justify their outrage at the audacity of her (IMO) innocent request.

And I wish Nicola good luck in her venture - it would be good to maybe see a 'definitive' book on the the processes on the shelves of mainstream bookshops, something that the weight of Virgin publishing could achieve.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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Dan LB



Joined: 28/01/06
Posts: 1007
Loc: Wicklow, Ireland
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458384 - 10/05/07 12:09 AM
Some of this thread is absolutely disgraceful!! I feel shame has been brought upon us all.

As has been said already, If you want to help her out, email her. If you don't, I for one do not want to hear your rants! THIS THREAD IS GOING NOWHERE FAST! I think it would be a good idea to put this to bed and lock it. MODS??


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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1029
Loc: Dublin
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #458387 - 10/05/07 12:21 AM
Quote Steve Hill:

...I am actually proud to have been made one of only 8 ever honorary life members of a particular worldwide professional association as a thank-you for some stuff I did.

Money did not enter into it. Doing something worthwhile did.

If you are only prepared to get out of bed in the morning if someone pays to do so that's your choice. But don't expect me to sympathise with your f***ed up value system - it stinks.




I must say I'm surprised and disappointed that a "moderator" on this forum is allowed to say my "worldview stinks"...

Then again, you have been "made one of only 8 ever honorary life members of a particular worldwide professional association as a thank-you for some stuff you did". So obviously you're a REALLY NICE GUY.

Presumably this qualifies you to say my worldview stinks. I thought we merely held different opinions.


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Stuart Dawson



Joined: 18/06/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Surrey
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Evie McCreevie]
      #458392 - 10/05/07 12:37 AM
The ironic thing is that on the other thread (Apology to Nicolas Slade) I posted saying I couldn't understand why they locked this thread, as did others. Consequently it was unlocked. I now see that in fact locking it, was the most sensible thing to do and would have saved all this angst. Apologies Frank Eleveld, you were right and we were wrong!!

In life there are givers and there are takers. The really worrying thing is that there seem to be a lot of takers on this forum. If someone comes in and asks for a bit of help with a recording project he/she is doing, (for which they may be getting paid) do we tell them to get stuffed because there is nothing in it for us?

I would love to be able to be in the position of answering some of these posts or replying to Nicola with one of her questionaires, but I don't have the expertise, I am more likely to be the one asking the questions. It seems that unlike some people here, I actually quite like helping people do things, I even get a little kick out of it if we are totally honest.

Quote:

What's so terribly worthwhile about another book on home recording? It's not saving the world.




I don't quite think he was referring to this particular book, more his life membership of a professional association. And no, it's not saving the world, it's probably not necessary and nothing would happen if it wasn't written. That is beside the point. Between her and Virgin they have decided to write and publish it. So what if there are 200 other books on the same subject? Have you seen how many books there are on Windows XP!!!

So what if Paul White has done better, if she doesn't have the expertise, if she won't tell us how much she is being paid. To be honest none of that is our business. If she wants to write it she can. If it's crap then it's crap. Big deal! This forum is not the thought Police. Let people do what they want.

Some of the posts though...God! Metal Slug got banned for less, and seems tame in comparison.

I was trying to recall a similar thread where a newcomer to the Forum ended up creating a kerfuffle such as this. Reminds me ever so slightly of the Arby Studios thread a couple of years ago!


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Stuart Dawson



Joined: 18/06/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Surrey
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Evie McCreevie]
      #458394 - 10/05/07 12:42 AM
Quote Evie McCreevie:

Quote Steve Hill:






I must say I'm surprised and disappointed that a "moderator" on this forum is allowed to say my "worldview stinks"...






To be fair, on rereading your posts, you do come across as being a little bit mercenary. Go back and read them all, it can be quite instructive and you may well be surprised.


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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1029
Loc: Dublin
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Stuart Dawson]
      #458398 - 10/05/07 01:15 AM
Quote S2:

To be fair, on rereading your posts, you do come across as being a little bit mercenary.




I was just trying to distinguish between sharing info with fellow musos who are trying to make music, and sharing info with "outsiders' who are trying to make a buck.

I think it's really sad that once "money" and "musician" appear in the same sentence, accusations of being mercenary and of having a stinky worldview soon follow.

To share with fellow musos is to be generous. To share with Virgin Publishing is to be exploited.

Surely the above statement - which is the gist of my argument - is clear, understandable and reasonable?


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458404 - 10/05/07 01:41 AM
Oh for Chrissake...

Help Nicola out or not - your choice. Revel in the prospect of a namecheck in in a book ... or not ... your choice ... simple as that.

If you think you can do better, then sell your idea to a major publisher and get the thing published and reap the rewards yourself (you won't get much in such a niche market).

Else just knock it off and let Nicola get on with her research. She came here looking for informed opinion - instead, she was berated and insulted by some. And shame on those people,

I cannot begin to imagine what Nicola must be thinking now from the response she received from some forum members here.

Many of us have had heated run-ins in the OFF TOPIC forum but surely we're above petty squabbling elsewhere - such as here. It's pointless.

Bottom line? If you want to help Nicola and maybe get a namecheck in her book, PM her. Else just ignore it and move on and stop grinding blunt axes.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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Frank EleveldModerator



Joined: 30/08/04
Posts: 3823
Loc: NL
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Dan LB]
      #458419 - 10/05/07 05:44 AM
Quote Dan LB:

As has been said already, If you want to help her out, email her. If you don't, I for one do not want to hear your rants! THIS THREAD IS GOING NOWHERE FAST! I think it would be a good idea to put this to bed and lock it. MODS??




I'm inclined to lock it again. Originally I felt unsure about the self-promotion part in Nicola's first post, but after some talking with Steve Hill I felt it was ok to unlock it.

However, it has spun into nothing but mudslinging, includes sexist remarks, etc. It's still going downhill and there's enough justification to lock it permanently simply because it's getting out of hand.

This posting serves as a last warning, if the bickering continues, me or some other mod will be locking or removing this and the other topic regarding Nicola's book. That would be a pity for Nicola, and I think it doesn't do justice to a forum that's generally a nice place to be.

Frank Eleveld


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__
Who's never been here


Joined: 28/11/02
Posts: 6263
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458431 - 10/05/07 07:21 AM
Actually i have a story about Virgin and an advert they broadcast some time ago, i think it was for mobiles...

Well years ago when mr's ow and me came back from a long stint in scotland, we were staying in a guest house near Gatwick while we looked for a new gaff.

It was supposed to be for a couple of weeks but ended up being a couple of months...

Anyway it was a big guest house, more of a small hotel, but it was run by this little old couple - really loveley people. It was a good place, they had a small restraunt bit and a proper kitchen, great food, we were happy.

But they also had a big laundry room with four washing machine / tumble dryer combos, ironing board or two and so on.

We got on really well with the old couple, became friends being there for so long and everything. They were sweet people, untouched by life it seemed and stuck in R4 land, sunday morning church, the lot.

One day mr's ow said to me "can you do some washing"? so i took our dirty clothes down to the laundry room, stuch eme in one of the washing machines and went back to the room.

A couple of hours later mr's ow said to me "i bet that washings done by now". So agreeing i went down to the laundry room, opened the machine and took out the clothes.

On removing the clothes i noticed they seemed particularly dry, and i thought to myself "you daft bugger, you didnt switch the machine on, these clothes are still dirty".

(Funny how your life can swerve with the tiniest of events...)

...and just to check, i took a pair of mr's ow's panties out of the basket and just gave the crutch a very quick little sniff, just to see if the clothes had indeed gone through the wash cycle, but as i did this i turned my head and there in the doorway of the laundry room was little old lady of little old couple fame. And our eyes met and i had a pair of panties on my face and was frozen with embarassment.

She looked at me asif i was the devil himself and never spoke to me again, and always treated mr's ow with that 'you poor thing' style done best by little old ladies.

I told that story a few times, and near to Virgins HQ in bars around Gatwick.... Then one day, there it was reinacted with a small change in personnel on a Virgin tv ad.. and did they pay me? NO!


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #458444 - 10/05/07 07:45 AM
Quote Steve Hill:

In any event, consider this a formal warning: any repetition and you get banned.

And that goes for anyone else who thinks such conduct is an appropriate way to welcome a new forum contributor. She's a respected music journalist and published author and, I would once have imagined, might have been welcomed to this forum with open arms.




Evie. What part of my post yesterday, quoted above do you not understand? And the similar warning posted by Tim Rainey? Are you exempt from the term "anyone else"? You are just continuing to insult Nicola, who you don't know, by making wild (and essentially unfounded) assumptions about her motives etc.

How do you think she feels reading all this? I know from exchanges with her in the last day or two that she has found a lot of this stuff upsetting.

Locking ths thread, yet again, is an option the mods are currently considering. Personally I lean to leaving it open as most forum members seem happy to take Nicola's motives at face value and help out. But I'll go with the flow.

Another option, which I am currently straining hard to resist, is ban Evie or anyone else who continues to use this forum as a platform to fling insults at Nicola.

You had a "final" warning yesterday.

This. Nonsense. Stops. Now.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #458447 - 10/05/07 07:52 AM
I'd suggest - given the amount of dust thrown up in these threads and its low value to the world - both threads could safely be trashed and replaced by a locked sticky for those who want to contact Nicola. It wouldn't be forever...

Those who want to impugne Virgin for being a commercial publisher could perhaps spend their effort on some other site a long way away.

Sorted.

And thanks to ow for the light relief... I larfed like a drain.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3145
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #458464 - 10/05/07 08:29 AM
Thread degenerated! Response to Rob obliterated!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski

Edited by Richard Graham (10/05/07 08:34 AM)


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #458466 - 10/05/07 08:34 AM
Quote Richard Graham:

Why would you assume that 'women are unusual in my world', and what would this mean anyway (that there aren't any, or that the ones there are are malformed in some way)?




I said perhaps they were...

Quote Richard Graham:

And how would this affect my point of view?




...because you seem to think gender is more of an issue than simple humanity and respect between individuals.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3145
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #458468 - 10/05/07 08:37 AM
I think gender has been an issue on this thread for a while now!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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Wapskallion
member


Joined: 02/10/02
Posts: 153
Loc: Edinburgh
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Aural Reject]
      #458472 - 10/05/07 08:52 AM
Quote Aural Reject:

I don't get paid (extra) when my name appears on a scientific publication or patent.....to which I'll have had significant input, nor do I get citation fees (more's the pity ) which is the equivalent to the book contribution.




AR - Although I'm more than happy for Nicola to post on this forum and I have already offerd my services to her, I don't think you can compare getting your name on a Science paper (unpaid) to getting quoted in a book (unpaid).

As I understood Science, getting your name on papers is the building block for your career and effects your future funding - I expect you'd put a lot more work into a paper than any of us would put into this book, and although you say it is unpaid, you personally get a lot more out of it


Just a thought...

--------------------
www.myspace.com/wapskallionremixes


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Fotografics



Joined: 17/12/06
Posts: 446
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458476 - 10/05/07 08:59 AM
Speaking as a newbie and as a hobbyist I'm so glad that this thread went on as long as it did. I hope that it made some of the "regulars" consider how they reply to some of our questions, as well as how they reacted to "Nicola".

I'm sure that this topic has touched a lot of nerves, especially with us on the lower end of the musical food chain. I think the motto "If you don't want to spend time with this thread, don't post" could be adopted more often.

I must admit that, as an ignorant beginner, you do have to put up with quite a lot of put-downs and condescending comments from some (I emphasise the word "some") of the regulars who seem more intent on promoting themselves than helping others, but you get enough help from the "good guys" to enable you to tolerate the ego-boosters.

Food for thought for some people, I hope.

--------------------
"Nice microphone... Now get it out of shot!"


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R. Spisketts



Joined: 29/01/05
Posts: 1319
Loc: Southsea
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #458481 - 10/05/07 09:10 AM
Quote Richard Graham:

I think gender has been an issue on this thread for a while now!




One poster made some sexist remarks, for which he has since apologised. Aside from that particular nadir, gender is not a major theme in this thread.

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Funk this, arm half due wink a trump


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Aural Reject



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4208
Loc: Lancashire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Wapskallion]
      #458484 - 10/05/07 09:19 AM
Quote Wapskallion:

Quote Aural Reject:

I don't get paid (extra) when my name appears on a scientific publication or patent.....to which I'll have had significant input, nor do I get citation fees (more's the pity ) which is the equivalent to the book contribution.




AR - Although I'm more than happy for Nicola to post on this forum and I have already offerd my services to her, I don't think you can compare getting your name on a Science paper (unpaid) to getting quoted in a book (unpaid).

As I understood Science, getting your name on papers is the building block for your career and effects your future funding - I expect you'd put a lot more work into a paper than any of us would put into this book, and although you say it is unpaid, you personally get a lot more out of it


Just a thought...




It was more the citation thing I was trying to get at - rather badly admittedly - that work that I do (hence my analogy to providing hints / tips / ways of working to the author) can be contained within anyone else's work on the basis of a reference only...and the citation can be as important as the original paper.

Which (even though I've probably still not explained myself properly) puts me down firmly on the side of the OP.

(Incidentally, I'm not an academic scientist - I'm in industry, so the number of publications I'm on has no effect on my funding I don't even tend to write them myself - I'm just a contributing author in the fact that someone else includes stuff that I've done)


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Wapskallion
member


Joined: 02/10/02
Posts: 153
Loc: Edinburgh
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458490 - 10/05/07 09:27 AM
AR - well that's fair enough - so the moral is that we're all wonderful people (apart fro the horrible ones)... and what goes round comes around?

Amen

--------------------
www.myspace.com/wapskallionremixes


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Aural Reject



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4208
Loc: Lancashire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Wapskallion]
      #458492 - 10/05/07 09:30 AM
Quote Wapskallion:

AR - well that's fair enough - so the moral is that we're all wonderful people (apart fro the horrible ones)... and what goes round comes around?

Amen




Pretty much


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Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 9386
Loc: UK *but works all over the pl...
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Wapskallion]
      #458503 - 10/05/07 09:41 AM
I have a reputation, fairly earned, for blunt speaking.... and occasional brusqueness .

The reaction to Nicola and some of the more extreme responses actually make me ashamed to be a member here, never mind a moderator...

Grow up, get lives, and move on.


I may be occasionally rough, but generally fair with Homework queries, but this wasn't one of them..... a genuine and up front request , deserving of a lot more respect than it got.

and i DO earn my living from knowing the answers....

--------------------
Don't get the hump when i tell you it's going to be expensive, it's not my fault , you picked the site/building/room â


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Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3145
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: R. Spisketts]
      #458590 - 10/05/07 12:26 PM
Quote ECC83:

Quote Richard Graham:

I think gender has been an issue on this thread for a while now!




One poster made some sexist remarks, for which he has since apologised. Aside from that particular nadir, gender is not a major theme in this thread.




I can't help thinking Barish has been admonished so strongly (fairly or not) mostly because the remarks he made were to or about a lady. Likewise, I think that's why so many people have felt a need to leap to her defense. I could be wrong. Perhaps everyone acts so disgusted every time a new visitor comes on and gets slapped down for asking for help.

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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Henry-S
member


Joined: 11/07/04
Posts: 937
Loc: UK, Cornwall
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458597 - 10/05/07 12:32 PM
Seriously, why isn't this thread just locked its pretty much run its course of doom.

Its a shame to see people really destroying what was probably just an honest request for some information. I literally think about it like this.

SOS do reviews on products and they actually list the pros and cons of a product, they even suggest ways for a programmer or hardware creator to make it "better". Infact many company has taken on the views of SOS reviews and has implemented features highlighted in reviews. Does this suddenly mean that the reviewers are going to be on the phone to Mackie saying "erm, are you going to pay me for that suggestion then?"

This thread should be locked and Nicola be asked to post again. 3 pages of arguments for a simple question which is
"I am writing a book, I would like any suggestions of things you feel should be in it".

The amount of cash I must have saved on this forum for tech support is not even worth counting. I really hope the people who made the nasty comments look back at their past forum posts and think, when you had a problem, was someone asking for an engineering credit on your cd because they helped you sort out your drum mix?

--------------------
There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky

Edited by Henry-S (10/05/07 12:35 PM)


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #458613 - 10/05/07 12:56 PM
Quote Richard Graham:

I can't help thinking Barish has been admonished so strongly (fairly or not) mostly because the remarks he made were to or about a lady.




If you re-read the thread you will see I was asking everyone to lighten up and treat Nicola with some basic respect long before Barish entered the fray at all. The very first respones to her, as a new member, were on the lines of it's all been done before so don't bother, or what's in it for us. Whether that was at all related to her being a woman I could not possibly say.

Also, if you re-read the thread, you will be a pretty sad person and possibly need to get out more!

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5902
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #458636 - 10/05/07 01:46 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

The very first respones to her, as a new member, were on the lines of it's all been done before so don't bother, or what's in it for us.




Not all the very first responses Steve.


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 9349
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Henry-S]
      #458656 - 10/05/07 02:27 PM
Henry,

The best way to let this thread die is to not post any more.

I think this has been debated to death and some valuable lessons have been learned.

But it is time to move on. The constructive suggestions have now diminished and debating forum etiquette has run it's course.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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Evie McCreevie



Joined: 06/09/04
Posts: 1029
Loc: Dublin
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #458680 - 10/05/07 03:07 PM
Quote Steve Hill:


Evie. ...You are just continuing to insult Nicola, who you don't know, by making wild (and essentially unfounded) assumptions about her motives etc.

...Another option, which I am currently straining hard to resist, is ban Evie or anyone else who continues to use this forum as a platform to fling insults at Nicola.

You had a "final" warning yesterday.

This. Nonsense. Stops. Now.





Steve. I'm happy to let this drop, but you appear to have it in for me.

I have not made any assumptions - let alone wild assumptions - about Nicola's motives. She's writing a book for Virgin Publishing, looking for info and I disagreed with her use of this forum for that purpose. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe I was right. Maybe I was somewhere in between. It's just an opinion.

Personally speaking, if I were to write a book I would expect to have:
A. At least a very good knowledge of the subject myself
B. A range of personal professional contacts whom I could tap for further information

I would not expressly join a forum to ask people to help me write my book. I would not use the phrase "Get involved!" as I think it is patronising and disingenuous. What I MIGHT do - especially if I had a deal with a major publisher - is use the forum to find a few collaborators with various areas of expertise, and offer to pay them a small amount for their services.

Obviously spending a couple of minutes sending an email / answering a questionnaire is not a big deal. I apologise if I misunderstood that. But any worthwhile contribution would surely take a lot longer, and presumably only worthwhile contributions will make it into print.

I don't think any of the above is an insult to Nicola. The only insult traded in our posts is your remark that my "worldview stinks".

And now you're threatening to ban me. Where do you get off?


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Evie McCreevie]
      #458705 - 10/05/07 03:47 PM
Quote Evie McCreevie:

I would not expressly join a forum to ask people to help me write my book.

...

I don't think any of the above is an insult to Nicola.




"Help me write my book" is obviously intended to put her request in a poor light. She specifically didn't ask for that - what she asked is very clear in her own post. Also, regarding her credentials, I think you may have missed them. She does know technology and she's well connected.

Zukan makes a very good point by the way.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12462
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #458715 - 10/05/07 04:14 PM
I really can't believe this thread

An author doing legitimate research is asking for info that is specific - that's all.

In the radio trade it's called "vox pops" - all this is is just up-market "vox pops".

Personally I am disgusted at some of what has been said in this thread.

Evie, sorry, I think you are totally wrong.

This is what any competent author will do when writing a book like this.

There are several microphone books out there where the authors have contacted me to check thing out and ask for information and/or pictures - I'm not writing the book, just putting information into the pot where the author will put it all together and write the tome.

The original question is what I would expect of any competent technical author.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #458736 - 10/05/07 04:46 PM
Evie, I'm dropping it and saying no more on this topic (unless events force me to do so). I'll just say I have no idea where you and seemingly others get the notion that Nicola is some kind of know-nothing outsider and thus not worth bothering with.

She is for example editor of this music journal: http://www.recordoftheday.com/cgi-bin/content.cgi?page=index

She is at least as qualified to opine as many members of this forum. She has a book under her belt already. I do not, personally, rush to the assumption that her publishers hand out book deals to just anyone who walks in off the street. The must have been persuaded by her pitch that she has something original to say. By November we will all be able to judge for ourselves. We have no rational basis for making a judgement now.

And if I were pursuing a career in the music business, I'd hesitate before attacking a music journalist. It's a small world and they talk to each other.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #458786 - 10/05/07 06:49 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

I'd hesitate before attacking a music journalist. It's a small world and they talk to each other.




ROTD is the UK music biz forum - I know quite a bit about it and used to post there. She has also been a technical editor on Music Week (and may still be for all I know).

Other people of course have very little in their profile, and the luxury of posting under a pseudonym.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me


Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 5649
Loc: Buntingford, Herts
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Rob C]
      #458886 - 10/05/07 09:45 PM
There was a young lady who wrote
In need of opinions to quote
She went online
Where people opine
And instead was grabbed by the throat


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Persuazion



Joined: 29/10/05
Posts: 1629
Loc: Scotland
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Aural Reject]
      #459097 - 11/05/07 11:33 AM
She had and has all the information she needs right here on the forum already. I guess her mistake was being kind enough to actually ASK us, rather than simply read through previous posts for the info she wants.

This whole thread makes me pretty ashamed of this forum.

Good luck with the book.

--------------------
http://www.loverslanestudios.co.uk


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John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12462
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Persuazion]
      #459102 - 11/05/07 11:38 AM
Quote Persuazion:

She had and has all the information she needs right here on the forum already. I guess her mistake was being kind enough to actually ASK us, rather than simply read through previous posts for the info she wants.




But this would not have given her the information she needs, it would just have given her general information rather than specific and personal information, which is what she needs.

She did exactly the right thing in what she did and how she asked.

It was just paranoid forum members treating it like a homework question that got all out of control.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


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Dan LB



Joined: 28/01/06
Posts: 1007
Loc: Wicklow, Ireland
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Frank Eleveld]
      #459250 - 11/05/07 04:29 PM
Quote Frank Eleveld:



I'm inclined to lock it again. Originally I felt unsure about the self-promotion part in Nicola's first post, but after some talking with Steve Hill I felt it was ok to unlock it.


However, it has spun into nothing but mudslinging, includes sexist remarks, etc. It's still going downhill and there's enough justification to lock it permanently simply because it's getting out of hand.


This posting serves as a last warning, if the bickering continues, me or some other mod will be locking or removing this and the other topic regarding Nicola's book. That would be a pity for Nicola, and I think it doesn't do justice to a forum that's generally a nice place to be.





Quote Rob C:

both threads could safely be trashed and replaced by a locked sticky for those who want to contact Nicola.




Amen


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Paul Roberts



Joined: 29/01/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Nempnet Thrubwell
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Nicola Slade]
      #459365 - 11/05/07 10:39 PM
Jeez. What a load of miserable s***s are in this thread. It's changed my view of the SOS forum, which I HAD thought of as rather cool and helpful. I suppose it still is, but with these turnips above, who knows.

There is NO excuse for the idiotic behaviour in some of the above posts.

Buy rounds. Give of yourselves. Do community service. Grow up and GET A *******LIFE.





--------------------
Oh, dear, why do we bovver?


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Neo-Classical Guitar...
active member


Joined: 07/08/01
Posts: 1729
Loc: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Barish]
      #459483 - 12/05/07 10:53 AM
Quote Barish:

Yes I admit to have a problem with political correctness, and that causes trouble at times.







Yes I agree. It's a major reason why modern living is such a pain... Oh and people forget that sexism happens from both sides all of the time.


NCGM

--------------------
Footloose and fancy free...gizz a job!


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: Get involved! I am writing a book about home recording for Virgin Publishing and am looking for people to take part!!! new [Re: Neo-Classical Guitar Man]
      #459495 - 12/05/07 11:51 AM
Quote Neo-Classical Guitar Man:

Oh and people forget that sexism happens from both sides all of the time.




Not in this thread.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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