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Martin WalkerModerator
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Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #535464 - 18/10/07 01:53 PM
Quote Mahoobley:

So are 'Banpiracy' (what kind of name is that anyway? Like piracy isn't already 'banned') going to go after people who crack any brand of audio software, or just Waves stuff?




They imply in that interview that they only pursue on behalf of specific clients, Waves being the first one on their books.


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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sharpeye



Joined: 21/12/04
Posts: 154
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #535468 - 18/10/07 01:59 PM
I get the feeling that maybe waves are aware their products are overpriced in todays market, and this is a bit of a last stand to rake in as much cash as possible from non legit users - which is fair enough - before their sales dry up completely.

I also think that their statements re 80% of european studios using cracked software are fairly spurious and should be backed up, before Waves - and any other companies that join in with this witch hunt - lose their good reputations.

The only other thing i would say is that companies - both in the world of music and software - need to wise up to the digital age we live in, and sort out things like rights management and copy protection, as at present it is a bit of a shambles. If the product is so freely available, inevitably people will use it, whether right or wrong.

--------------------
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djangodeadman
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: thenaturallevel]
      #535469 - 18/10/07 02:01 PM
Quote thenaturallevel:

I have followed this thread with interest as I have been tempted by Waves plugins in the past. I acted on my right as a consumer not to buy their product. Software piracy is theft simple as, however, as has been mentioned before Waves are not the only kid in town.



Software piracy is not theft; if it was, you could go to prison for it. It is breach of copyright, which leaves you open to a claim for (theoretically unlimited) damages.


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: djangodeadman]
      #535486 - 18/10/07 02:39 PM
Yeah, I take this view.

The phrase "software piracy is theft" is a marketing term used by the copyright owners to help try and stop people using pirate software out of fear/guilt/morals/whatever.

Software piracy is copyright infringement, unauthorised and unlicensed use, and a whole bunch of other stuff depending on the intellectual property, terms of use, license restrictions and whatever else is valid.

However, it is not theft under any definition of the term, nor seen as such under most legal frameworks, as far as I understand...


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thenaturallevel



Joined: 28/02/07
Posts: 1211
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: desmond]
      #535496 - 18/10/07 02:55 PM
Quote desmond:

Yeah, I take this view.

The phrase "software piracy is theft" is a marketing term used by the copyright owners to help try and stop people using pirate software out of fear/guilt/morals/whatever.

Software piracy is copyright infringement, unauthorised and unlicensed use, and a whole bunch of other stuff depending on the intellectual property, terms of use, license restrictions and whatever else is valid.

However, it is not theft under any definition of the term, nor seen as such under most legal frameworks, as far as I understand...




It can be labelled however you want legally, as far as I'm concerned obtaining software without paying for it (software which is not freeware that is) is theft. This is my own opinion and not marketing speak. This does not mean I agree with how Waves are trying to enforce their "copyright" if the story mentioned before is true of course.


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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #535509 - 18/10/07 03:33 PM
Quote Martin Walker:

Quote Mahoobley:

So are 'Banpiracy' (what kind of name is that anyway? Like piracy isn't already 'banned') going to go after people who crack any brand of audio software, or just Waves stuff?




They imply in that interview that they only pursue on behalf of specific clients, Waves being the first one on their books.

Martin




I wonder if this guy, who was previously a Director at Waves, stepped down (or across) to set up this company. My opinion is that it was set up purposely & primarily to protect Waves (and is a Waves initiative), but have left it open to all companies to avoid a direct grilling towards themselves should it backfire and alienate its user base.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is how I perceive it.

Cheers,
Peter

--------------------
Composer, Songwriter, Producer, Sound Designer
www.peterconnelly.com


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thedogboy
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: -=@(*_*)@=-]
      #535547 - 18/10/07 04:33 PM
Quote lg:

That's what I think:

If you are making any money out of your music, you SHOULD not be forgiven if you are caught using software.




Mwhahahahahaha!

-n.


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Dennis Spank
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #535589 - 18/10/07 06:02 PM
The guy on the left is clearly a pretty f*cked up and angry little man. They've set themselves up as some kind of gestapo kickback merchants. And this "company" is a wretched operation - leeching off others. Nasty nasty nasty....

The best thing people can do is to totally avoid Waves' products whether legal or illegal.

Clearly, there's more bad karma involved in having anything to do with Waves than there is in using cracked sofwtare.

There are far superior products out there.

These wretched little toads are nasty little (little being the operative word) leeches.

Remember - BOYCOTT WAVES!

--------------------
Ouch!

Edited by Dennis Spank (18/10/07 06:07 PM)


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Checkonetwo



Joined: 29/07/07
Posts: 53
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #535606 - 18/10/07 07:11 PM
Check these mens shady vibe, to me that instantly
says don't give them money. The dude on the left looks
like he is ready to punch someone, filled with anger, this
video is damning and shows the real deal.

There are maybe 2 plugins that waves make that are ok and both can be surpassed in quality, functionality and value(by a large margin) by some of the smaller developers.

I know who's plug ins I will be buying and they will not be
from this company.

On the other hand it's a double edged sword and I appreciate
that for those using legit plugs it is grossly unfair that someone profits from cracks. It's a weird one and hard to be
totally polarized.


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Steve Hill
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: djangodeadman]
      #536065 - 19/10/07 10:27 PM
Quote djangodeadman:

Software piracy is not theft; if it was, you could go to prison for it. It is breach of copyright, which leaves you open to a claim for (theoretically unlimited) damages.




I gave up lawyering a few months ago, but yes, it is indeed theft.

That is not to say that there are not commercial reasons for pursuing civil remedies instead. That's up to the injured party (and the competence/resources of the police, but I digress...).

If I were to start selling Waves bundles on eBay for £30 in large quantities, I would not be at all surprised to end up facing criminal charges. It's a question of degree, and how much you are personally profiting from your theft, which appears to determine what remedies get pursued.

The technical definition of the offence is unchanged from teh Theft Act 1968 (in the UK) and is basically about appropriating another person's property. You don't own Waves copyright if you choose to steal it rather than buy a licence. QED.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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leafy productions
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #536148 - 20/10/07 09:58 AM

totally agree !waves is old.........

Quote Steve Hill:

I very much look forward to the mystery shopper visiting my studio, when I will happily expound at interminable length why I would not have the product in my studio, why several cheaper products will do an equal or better job, why "that Waves sound" is so last year it has become a commercial cliche which nobody who is really innovative is using any longer, and why if they are sure they know better than me they had better go elsewhere!




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Johnny Wrong



Joined: 21/04/07
Posts: 59
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #536313 - 20/10/07 09:01 PM
This just seems like Waves wanting to take the heat off themselves by starting up a company under a different name to carry on their draconian tactics without damaging their public image.......

Guy on the left looks and acts like he is barely controlling his rage!
He looks like a psycho ex-mossad operative who is going to assassinate anyone using pirated Waves stuff!


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InactiveX



Joined: 22/07/05
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #536622 - 21/10/07 11:01 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

I very much look forward to the mystery shopper visiting my studio, when I will happily expound at interminable length why I would not have the product in my studio, why several cheaper products will do an equal or better job, why "that Waves sound" is so last year it has become a commercial cliche which nobody who is really innovative is using any longer, and why if they are sure they know better than me they had better go elsewhere!




You could always grass yourself up.

report@banpiracy.com

If you were to do such a thing, be sure to have a CCTV so we can all have a giggle.


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Tommy Tucker



Joined: 27/06/06
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Johnny Wrong]
      #536680 - 22/10/07 08:45 AM
Quote Johnny Wrong:

This just seems like Waves wanting to take the heat off themselves by starting up a company under a different name to carry on their draconian tactics without damaging their public image.......




You think they haven't done this already? Between this and WUP, they are seriously putting off customers. Their image is so bad right now, they should spend a bit of shareholders' money and get Max Clifford in to sort things out


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Joe_caithness



Joined: 30/07/06
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #536714 - 22/10/07 10:40 AM
so this is how they are gonna spend the leftover money form their ridiculously expensive computer programs...


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Humphreysbogort



Joined: 10/11/04
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Joe_caithness]
      #536913 - 22/10/07 08:13 PM
Piracy will always happen if it is possible.

As Chris Rock says "a man is as faithful as his options"

If you remove the option of piracy then people will have to buy. this is what companys like Waves should put their money into rather than resorting to bully boy tactics.

The only option I can see is not actually providing the source code to the consumer. If the internet was fast enough then programs could run on a remote secure server which is tied to a particular hardware configuration. Very hard to crack, as the code never actauly reaches the public domain. I'm convinced this is the way things will go as soon as internet speeds catch up. We are already seeing the beginnings of it with google's online office applications.


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Dennis Spank
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Humphreysbogort]
      #536966 - 22/10/07 10:46 PM
Quote narpin99:

Piracy will always happen if it is possible.

As Chris Rock says "a man is as faithful as his options"

If you remove the option of piracy then people will have to buy. this is what companys like Waves should put their money into rather than resorting to bully boy tactics.

The only option I can see is not actually providing the source code to the consumer. If the internet was fast enough then programs could run on a remote secure server which is tied to a particular hardware configuration. Very hard to crack, as the code never actauly reaches the public domain. I'm convinced this is the way things will go as soon as internet speeds catch up. We are already seeing the beginnings of it with google's online office applications.




Er, no, no and no.

By "source code" you mean binaries. What you mean is a thin client / application server model. Not practical in a time-critical application. One glitch and bye bye customer...



--------------------
Ouch!


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Mark Knutson
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #536985 - 23/10/07 01:08 AM
So, who's down for the Mercury bundle? The TDM is only $12,500. $7,500 native. By the time you convert that to Pounds, they're practically giving it away!

:evil:


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Humphreysbogort



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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Dennis Spank]
      #537087 - 23/10/07 11:53 AM
Quote:


Piracy will always happen if it is possible.

As Chris Rock says "a man is as faithful as his options"

If you remove the option of piracy then people will have to buy. this is what companys like Waves should put their money into rather than resorting to bully boy tactics.

The only option I can see is not actually providing the source code to the consumer. If the internet was fast enough then programs could run on a remote secure server which is tied to a particular hardware configuration. Very hard to crack, as the code never actauly reaches the public domain. I'm convinced this is the way things will go as soon as internet speeds catch up. We are already seeing the beginnings of it with google's online office applications.

Er, no, no and no.

By "source code" you mean binaries. What you mean is a thin client / application server model. Not practical in a time-critical application. One glitch and bye bye customer...






I'm not sure how you can claim to know what technology will develop in the future?

I'm not saying it is possible now, or even in the next five years, but if the internet became as fast as a conventional hard drive (how do you know it won't? think how far it has come in 15 years!) then i can't see why it is not an option


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Mark Knutson
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #537141 - 23/10/07 01:46 PM
I agree that such real-time access can't be ruled out for the future.

I think the short term will bring us a commoditization of plug-ins. Waves got in early with some strong products, but now there are many strong competitors, and a number of viable free products.

The algorithms for this kind of processing are not that hard to develop, and some people are making freeware plugs as a hobby. Also, the built-in plugs are getting better. So, my forecast is continued pressure on prices.

On another forum, I have seen some very established professionals report that the eq and compressor that comes with pro tools are very nice now. Its reverb is kind of mediocre, but that may be addressed in future releases as well. A few versions ago, their plugs were not very good and a third party offering was more compelling than it is today.


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Steve Hill
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Mark Knutson]
      #537167 - 23/10/07 03:19 PM
Quote Mark Knutson:

On another forum, I have seen some very established professionals report that the eq and compressor that comes with pro tools are very nice now. Its reverb is kind of mediocre, but that may be addressed in future releases as well. A few versions ago, their plugs were not very good and a third party offering was more compelling than it is today.




Logic 8's new compressor is a killer, the Channel EQ is good-to-very-good, and the Space Designer is about as good as software reverbs get... and the whole package is £319!

I live in a rural village at the extreme range of the local telephone exchange. Broadband access is at best passable, and sometimes pretty intermittent. My guess is we are decades away from me being able to use remotely hosted software. It's not about a couple of boffins coming up with something clever in a garage - it's about ripping out the entire UK telecoms network and replacing it with something better.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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leafy productions
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #537209 - 23/10/07 05:43 PM
My guess is hat the software market for eq and fx will become saturated - totally , the only way forward will become better abd better sounding stuff and for the price take Uad card ?and plugs ? why would anyone pay $$$$$$ for waves when uad stuff is simply way better soundwise.Waves i am afraid are on the way down.

I personally now use Uad card and the Oxford native plugins and the rest are freeware weird stuff.There is simply no fx i any longer need.The uad cards blow away an hardware i owned so what is left for waves or others to sell me?

Running software on a daw via web / servers? my god ........i can see it happening but i persoanlly dont know one professional studio daw on the web !!!!!!! and i know abouyt 30 studio owners who all wine about dongle authentication which they have to do via office pcs and transfer over.......sensible people dony have their studio system online , a daw is for making music and so the oidea of running software ona system which each time needs server authetication is going to be like asking the user to phone the company everytime they wish to use th plugins ! its all so tedious......all about ££$£$ and whats going to happen is that these software developers will eventually saturate the market.......i know so many software users who noe Dont update....no longer buy new software etc.......they all say the same thing.......i have enough and all i need........


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nukegroup
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #537774 - 24/10/07 06:22 PM
I downloaded Waves plugins with absolutely no intention of buying the full versions, as I simply can't afford them!

I wanted to see just how much better the 'best' plugins were than my bargain basement and (mainly) free ones. My conclusion was that they're not that much better: even if I had thousands to invest in processing, I'd spend it on hardware, which I'd feel much more excited about forking out thousands for.

It's the same reason that I use Cubase (legitimately!) and not Nuendo: there really doesn't seem to be a justification for splashing so much on something that's only a little better. I'd get Sonar or a cheaper one if I wasn't a Cubase user from Atari days who can't handle other programs interfaces!

It also seems to be the reason so many people are moving to Reaper et al. I was interested to see that Logic is now a lot cheaper: obviously Apple have hardware-based reasons for that change, but it seems to me that if firms priced their software cheaper, they'd have more legitimate users and wouldn't lose the cash.

Most crack-users (software crack-users ) must feel the guilt and instability-fear of using them and would gladly 'go straight' if the products were in their financial reach. I doubt there are many studio owners who forgo paying for Waves bundles to buy Faberge eggs!

Think of how different the views of Waves expressed in this thread would be if it was about them slashing their prices, not initiating a scary secret-police-style fear campaign.


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an englishman in
...




Joined: 14/11/07
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #545352 - 14/11/07 10:41 AM
i m one of those caught in the banpiracy initiative; we use all legal steinberg software, uad plugs and wanted to see how waves worked; tried to get a demo from our supplier; no chance; a friend offered us the plugs to try which we did on several personal, test projects; thought they were good but too expensive for us; and forget to erase them; now we were either denounced, which seems unlikely, since we hardly publicised the fact; or it appears that whoever is behind the initiative claimed that we advertised wavelab on our website, which is true, and that wavelab was a waves product, which is not, to get a court order to examine our computer; we are now facing lengthy costly proceedings, and a heavy fine, for a company that made less than 2500 profit last year; i make no excuses; just another side to the story


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #545356 - 14/11/07 11:02 AM
If that's true, then wasn't the court order obtained illegally? I'm sure that that was a dodgy thing to do and sounds like a case of knowlingly providing false information to the court. That sould get them a good fine / legal kick up the backside, no?

The moral of the story here is to get hold of legit demos - your post is just another reason why cracks should be avoided like the plague.

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: nukegroup]
      #545475 - 14/11/07 04:10 PM
Quote nukegroup:




Most crack-users (software crack-users ) must feel the guilt and instability-fear of using them and would gladly 'go straight' if the products were in their financial reach.




That is crap.

There are plenty of software apps cracked out there that cost 20 and 30 USD and even less. Most crack users won't pay for software because they can get it free, it's that simple. They don't value the work put into it by the programmers at all and they don't see it as anything wrong.


I'm honestly getting fed up with people blaming companies and pricing policies for piracy.


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Neil C
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #545487 - 14/11/07 04:49 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

Quote djangodeadman:

Software piracy is not theft; if it was, you could go to prison for it. It is breach of copyright, which leaves you open to a claim for (theoretically unlimited) damages.




I gave up lawyering a few months ago, but yes, it is indeed theft.





'A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it'
This is quoted on several sites explaining the law.

Surely in the case of pirated software - the owner of the copyright is not being deprived of the software - they still have their copy (and rights over the software)?
I'm not a lawyer - I think it's the bit I put in bold that causes the confusion on this technically theft/not theft thing- can anyone explain?

This is a bit of a point of pendantry in relation to the main issues here, but I'd like to know.


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_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Neil C]
      #545493 - 14/11/07 04:57 PM
Quote Neil C:

Quote Steve Hill:

Quote djangodeadman:

Software piracy is not theft; if it was, you could go to prison for it. It is breach of copyright, which leaves you open to a claim for (theoretically unlimited) damages.




I gave up lawyering a few months ago, but yes, it is indeed theft.





'A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it'
This is quoted on several sites explaining the law.

Surely in the case of copied software - the owner of the copyright is not being deprived of the software - they still have their copy?
I'm not a lawyer - I think it's the bit in bold that causes the confusion on this technically theft/not theft thing- can anyone explain?

This is a bit of a point of pendantry in relation to the main issues here, but I'd like to know.




They are being deprived of the license agreement at least, and of all rights they have over the intellectual property.


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Neil C
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #545495 - 14/11/07 05:06 PM
But they do still have their rights over the software. Hence they can sue.
And how can you steal an agreement? You can contravene one, but steal it?


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an englishman in
...




Joined: 14/11/07
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #545497 - 14/11/07 05:14 PM
thanks dave b; you are right on every count; piracy is wrong; but in my neck of the woods a demo was not available; we feel we have been wrongly targeted, so do we spend lots of money we haven't got on legal fees to fight it; i'm reading here and on other forums that studios are taking up the option of buying the software, paying reduced legal fees as a "penalty", and thus end of story; not sure i agree with the ethics


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_Nuno_



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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Neil C]
      #545498 - 14/11/07 05:23 PM
Quote Neil C:

But they do still have their rights over the software. Hence they can sue.
And how can you steal an agreement? You can contravene one, but steal it?




Well, it's a matter of opinion I guess.

I definitely see it as stealing, simply because you are taking something that does not belong to you without paying the price requested by the owner of that property. Of course you have to be able to recognize and value the concept of intellectual property in order to view it that way.

I suppose by your definition since no one is stealing an actual physical copy from someone or somewhere, like the shelves of a store or a warehouse then it's not stealing. I don't agree, and I see little point in discussing it, since any of these discussions hardly ever leads anywhere.


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
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Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #545520 - 14/11/07 06:14 PM
Englishman, I suppose that it would be worth the cost of a single consultation to see if what you think is true is in fact the case. If it is, then it might be worth giving it a punt. After all, if you don't have £1000 for legal fees then you don't have £100,000 either!

Are you here or in the 'States? If it's this side of the pond then there are people who might be able to give a more expert opinion on this.

Also, if it's not too forward, I'd be fascinated to know how much they are chasing you for.

On a general note to all and sundry, if anyone can't get hold of demo versions, then a post round these parts may be a way forward. Although it doesn't look it sometimes, we generally do support each other on these forums and a quick download, cd burn and jiffy bag might not be too much of a drag for some bored muso!

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: _Nuno_]
      #545548 - 14/11/07 07:23 PM
They have at least been deprived of the price of one sale. I call that theft, like I call nicking a Mars bar from a sweet shop theft. Sure, Mars can make lots more, for a fraction of the retail price....

If it's not a crime (but only liable to a civil recovery action) then the law is an ass (which it may be) as it is then "legal" for us all to pirate everything, and probably give or sell copies to others, calculating that the worst case scenario is we might get caught and have to pay for it.

The UK (unlike the US) will not entertain the concept of punitive damages - and a good thing too - so the worst you would be faced with in a UK court is having to pay for the software you "accidentally borrowed", plus maybe some adverse legal fees.

It would not be in the interests of Waves to bring such an action... which may be why they have launched 40 suits in California against studios who refused to settle but (to date) none outside the USA... where penal damages are (bizarrely) the norm.

To be clear: that's the civil law position. I also robustly and firmly believe that in the UK at least copyright theft is - er - theft, and a criminal offence.

The fact that the Crown Prosectuion Service seems reluctant or incapable of doing anything about it is a different debate. But the risk of a criminal conviction at least keeps this particular studio honest.

I also remain firmly of the view that this unashamed witch hunt by Waves will earn them no friends and is in every conceivable sense the worst possible strategic move they could have made for their business. It all has an aura of tragic desperation about it. There are no good guys in the whole sorry saga, just an assorted bunch of greedy bad guys on all sides - including lawyers - trying to empty each others' pockets. It's pretty sickening really, on a par with some of the more ludicrous excesses of Monster cables' litigation mania (trying to sue Disney for Monsters Inc , closing down a Monster seafood restaurant in Louisiana) etc etc.

I'm afraid I can only view companies like this with utter contempt, larded with a bit of pity, and a 110% personal commitment never to put myself in the slightest danger of having to contribute to their earnings.

But the market, not I, will decide whether this strategy leads to bankruptcy.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


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babeleGrande
new member


Joined: 06/02/03
Posts: 18
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #545585 - 14/11/07 09:04 PM
Waves could learn a lot from Universal Audio. UA's model of continuously giving away discounts supported by a healthy stream of plugin releases is managing to maintain some excitement in the platform -- meaning good sales. And as someone above said, i'm sure if UA can deliver awesome plugins for 300€, so can Waves.

Waves are arrogant. If you remove the bundle's price tag you're left with what i'd call a good bundle of plugins, but not fifteen times better than the competition.


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_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Cork, Ireland
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: babeleGrande]
      #545594 - 14/11/07 09:35 PM
Quote babeleGrande:

Waves could learn a lot from Universal Audio. UA's model of continuously giving away discounts supported by a healthy stream of plugin releases is managing to maintain some excitement in the platform -- meaning good sales. And as someone above said, i'm sure if UA can deliver awesome plugins for 300€, so can Waves.






Then again UAD doesn't have to worry about piracy, do they? All the people using their plugins do give money to the company, don't they?


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GLENN



Joined: 24/10/04
Posts: 326
Loc: Manchester
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Zukan]
      #545768 - 15/11/07 10:23 AM
While reading this thread I thought I would do a google experiment.
Im not going to reveal exactly what I typed into google but Waves need to clearly wake up.
I can obtain pretty much any of their software freely just by asking google a few questions!
I dare say so could anyone else.

I also know of someone who has been making a living from selling pirate software for the last 4 years and is a major link in the chain.
I have spoken to various software companies and none of them offered any incentive for my information.
I basically offered them security and they didnt want to spend on it and continue to loose or not perhaps!

At the end of the day we live in a digital world and security seems to always be low on the agenda and is often an after thought after the problem has arisen.

Its funny that the adult websites I instal security scripts for and audit are seeming to be spending more on security than music software companies!


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an englishman in
...




Joined: 14/11/07
Posts: 12
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: Dave B]
      #545806 - 15/11/07 11:50 AM
hello dave b; we are in europe, but not england; i'm being a little cagey because having been caught out once by the big bad wolf, i'm sharing our experience without publicising too much who we are in case we decide to fight it down the line; basically we are being asked, or rather the courts are being asked to force us, to pay 100,000 euros in damages to Waves, plus legal costs, estimated by the plaintiff as being 10000 euros; obviously this is meant to impress us, (which at first did!) plus a visit from a bailiff with a policeman and computer whizz in tow is never a pleasant experience; all this for software that costs less than 2000 euros;


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an englishman in
...




Joined: 14/11/07
Posts: 12
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: _Nuno_]
      #545811 - 15/11/07 12:02 PM
i presume your comments are ironic; the difference between UAD and waves plugs is that you need to have the UAD card fitted in your machine; their plugs are not stand alone;


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9141
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: an englishman in paris]
      #545832 - 15/11/07 12:55 PM
They are asking for £70,000!?!

So much for their video where they say "we're not trying to punish studios, we are just trying to get them to go legit". The implication being that they are basically going after the retail sale of those plugins, plus costs, so if you are found to have illegal stuff, they expect to chrge you the full price of their plugins (which will probably be the big £7K bundle, even if you only "demoed" one plugin) plus some overhead.

Or is it the case where they've basically said to you, for £8k (or whatever) you get a legit licensed bundle and we'll go away, but if you refuse, *then* we'll go after full damages in court?


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an englishman in
...




Joined: 14/11/07
Posts: 12
Re: Banpiracy................Further to the Waves story new [Re: desmond]
      #545915 - 15/11/07 03:29 PM
well in fact its the other way round; unlike what i understood happened in the states, we had no initial contact with an offer to go "legit"; the first we knew was the bailiff, then the court order, with the 100000 euros plus costs demanded; it was only afterwards via my software retailer that we found out about this whole banpiracy business, and this forum; so i have no idea as yet what will happen if we try to "negotiate"; and just an aside; i have been told by a very reliable source, i have no idea whether it is true, that "moles" who denounced people were being given software as a "reward"; great world we live in


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