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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 788
Loc: Salisbury
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #555905 - 12/12/07 11:12 AM
Quote OneManBanned:

The keyboard action is good. Unlike real pianos or some of the more expensive weighted keyboards there isn't that initial resistance as the hammer is set in motion, instead it's a more uniform resistance which feels a tad mechanical.




Ok, after setting it up along side my other weighted piano, i've completely changed my mind. The action on the Fusion is very good - i was in doubt coz the keyboard i'd played last was a nicely battered old upright. The manufacturers have even gone as far as dulling the finish on the black notes to give a more wooden "ivory" feel. Nice touch Plus, while the notes emit the usual dull thud when hammered, there's no trace of any internal mechanical noise sometimes present in cheaper controllers.

ok, bear with me. this next bit is probably more for my own benefit than anyone elses

I'm not sure what i was expecting really, but the whole keyboard comes across a lot more "workstation" than i thought it would be. There are a lots of shiney "EP plus strings" type patches (has anyone found a use for these this side of '95 ?) along side some quirky greats (ol steve hollowsun gets his own sound bank! my favourite so far? "Ruff Organ", plus the handful of odd drum machines).

I was also suprised at how well integrated the audio recorder is with the midi recorder. I was expecting the 8 audio ins to be completely discrete but you can set up a "song" to record any internal synth track via midi or audio track automatically, depending on whatever is receiving a signal - i think the problem mentioned previously revolved around the lack of ability to route a midi synth track to an audio input internally. Not a huge problem in my case. It integrats perfectly with my Motu 828mkII which currently has 8 redundant audio outs. Now i can route any of my other studio gear, including pod and mic preamps to any input on the fusion via the motu. The fusion also has an 8 channel (2 x stereo outputs, 4 FX bus outputs) ADAT out socket which, again, will make use of my redundant ADAT interface on the Motu.

One area of particular weakness which i did notice was the midi file editting. While the midi file display seemed perfectly comprehensive, as soon as you play the track to work out which note you want to edit, the screen is blanked and a message like "song is playing" is displayed!

this was all before ever really sticking my nose in the manual. the more i played, the more logical the layout seemed and i've just read of some key shortcuts that should make workflow quicker. so far, so very good...


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comradec
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #555909 - 12/12/07 11:17 AM
Keep us informed of your progress, OneManBanned (this is the discussion thread that won't die).

I'm still awaiting the arrival of my Fusion 6HD, which Turnkey say will be dispatched on December 20. Strictly speaking, I'll have to wait until December 25, as it's an Xmas present from my partner.

--------------------
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http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #555914 - 12/12/07 11:30 AM
oh, one more small thing.

Steve, if you're reading, i noticed that when i tried to edit the programs on your bank purely to find out what was going on "under the hood", i got messages telling me the referenced audio files could not be located and yet the program worked perfectly well. is this some kind of copy protection as any default sounds referenced, like the Holy Grail piano, were displayed without problem?

i think i'm safe in saying this was the only sound bank in which it happened.


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hollowsun



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #555955 - 12/12/07 12:56 PM
Quote OneManBanned:

oh, one more small thing.

Steve, if you're reading, i noticed that when i tried to edit the program....



OMB...

I think it's relevant to share your experience of Fusion here but we should take specific tech questions elsewhere to save boring the rest of the parish. PM me or pop along HERE. Happy to help but maybe here's not the place.

Glad to hear that your experience is positive though.

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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #556054 - 12/12/07 04:53 PM
Hi OMB

Quote OneManBanned:



Ok, after setting it up along side my other weighted piano, i've completely changed my mind.
The action on the Fusion is very good - dulling the finish on the black notes to give a more wooden "ivory" feel.
Nice touch
Plus, no trace of any internal mechanical noise sometimes present in cheaper controllers.






I'd agrre with that.

I've played a few 88key MIDI KB cintroller, 88note workstations, 88 noteelectric pianos
and New Kemble pianos (Kemble are my fave New pianos for action & soound)


The Fusion 8HD has is one of the best weighted actions i have played.
None of that sponginess rubbish on some 88kbs.
Nice springiness, decent travel, nice separation in the keys, comes back to the fingers nicely.
allows fast playing as well as mellow, with afertouch.

The keys themselves are well made, by Fatar AFAIB.
For me its a pleasure to play.



Quote:

I'm not sure what i was expecting really, but the whole keyboard comes across a lot more "workstation" than i thought it would be.
There are a lots of shiney "EP plus strings" type patches (has anyone found a use for these this side of '95 ?)
along side some quirky greats (ol steve hollowsun gets his own sound bank! my favourite so far? "Ruff Organ", plus the handful of odd drum machines).





For me there's 2 ways to look at the Fusion IMO

1. To see the Fusion as an instrument which allows one to be individual
as it allows the sculpting of any soound to fit our own personality, music.

Typical worksations are closed boxes, one has a fixed set of sounds.
It may give the immediacy of having typical sounds to hand but then we end up sounding like every one else = a sheep

Also the sounds in these typial workstations, sometimes a thousand or so are heavily comppressed
sometimes to fit into jsut 64MB or 160MB.


2. The Fusion an open box to add any number (thoousands) of high quality sounds to it 80GB harddisk...
just as one would on a PC by bying software and sample banks and placing in on the pcs harddsik.

Using chickensystems Fusion Pro cnverison software one can convert and import into the Fusion

http://www.chickensys.com/products/sw_iteminfo.php?sw_name=Fusion+Converto r+Pro

GigaStudio EXS-24 Steinberg HALion
NI Kontakt SoundFont Ensoniq
Akai samples Akai MPC Emu E3/ESi
Roland S-5x Kurzweil NI Battery
Emu E4 NI Reaktor PropellerHeads Reason
SampleCell Bitheadz Unity Recycle
Steinberg LM-4 Emulator X SFZ
ShortCircuit WAVE AIFF

There is nothing in the market in terms of an all incklusive kb that does this.
Not even the Oasys and the Oasys is £5399 !


The way the Fusion sees that HD is just as it sees the ROM, and it opens up any sound on the 80GB hard disk to be used sculpted, mangled using Fusion's software engines & sound sculpting tools.

Thus one can sound as uniqe as one wants.


Quote:

I was also suprised at how well integrated the audio recorder is with the midi recorder.
... can set up a "song" to record any internal synth track via midi or audio track automatically, depending on whatever is receiving a signal -




Yeah, the way the hd is integrated is very useful !



Quote:

Now i can route any of my other studio gear, including pod and mic preamps to any input on the fusion via the motu.
The fusion also has an 8 channel (2 x stereo outputs, 4 FX bus outputs) ADAT out socket which, again,
will make use of my redundant ADAT interface on the Motu.




The roouting options are ppretty neat.

Also can for instance plug a mic, geetar in to the 2 baanced inputs that have gain control,
use the Fusions synth engines as a fx, sculpting tool and take it out of the Fusion.

This to me is even more fun and powerful that say just a vocoder !


Quote:

One area of particular weakness which i did notice was the midi file editting.



TBH nearly all workstation withoout a mouse, this includes the Oasys, suffer from MIDI noote editing foibles.

Personally give the large screens of pcs and the toools available, I'd just export to pc and edit there.


Quote:

this was all before ever really sticking my nose in the manual. the more i played, the more logical the layout seemed and i've just read of some key shortcuts that should make workflow quicker. so far, so very good...




The manual is pretty kack
More useful info to be hand froom Hollowsun's Fusioneer forum and Fusionzone.

I find the Fusion so intutive, tha I have not looked at the manual for any operational things.
I have only used the manual too check up on different input outtputs




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paulustlocust



Joined: 07/06/05
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #556085 - 12/12/07 05:58 PM
Quote comradec:

I'm still awaiting the arrival of my Fusion 6HD, which Turnkey say will be dispatched on December 20. Strictly speaking, I'll have to wait until December 25, as it's an Xmas present from my partner.




I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I phoned them yesterday and they said that they wouldn't haven any for another 4 weeks. I'm very annoyed as I ordered mine 4 weeks ago already, AND they wanted the money upfront...

I'm praying to god this is the one time they actually deliver, cos I really really really want my Fusion but have been down this road before with Turnkey...

Maybe you are lucky though, and getting the 1st batch of stock or something? I don't know, but mine was due to be delivered this week and I'm annoyed!!

--------------------
"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it"


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: paulustlocust]
      #556091 - 12/12/07 06:13 PM
Sorry to hear of your woes amigos

Page 1 of this thread


Quote table for two:

Aye if it is Trudkey, No matter how tempting the deal,
best way to buy from them is turn up in person and see the goods right in front.

If paying a deposit or full payment to Turdkey ... well you takes yer chances ... somewhere between Bob Hope and ....







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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: paulustlocust]
      #556195 - 12/12/07 11:33 PM
Quote paulustlocust:

I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I phoned them yesterday and they said that they wouldn't haven any for another 4 weeks. I'm very annoyed as I ordered mine 4 weeks ago already, AND they wanted the money upfront...



Sorry to hear that.

Call Alesis UK on 01252 341 400 and try and establish what the supply situation is with your dealer.

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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #556199 - 12/12/07 11:40 PM
Glad to see you're liking your Fusion T42 - you've obviously 'got it' (in the sense of understanding what it's all about). So many haven't.

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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: hollowsun]
      #556214 - 13/12/07 12:31 AM



Would you believe, though I've had it for nearly a week, i've ony played on it a total of 2 hours

But that was more than enough to figure out plenty.

I think its a doddle to use ... yet it can do so much.

I can think of any number of software, even workstations from now and yesteryear
that are far harder to use.

Hopefully I will have this weekend free to do something on it.

Cant wait to put a condenser through its sample input and mangle the sound






Oh & errrr

The integration of the 80GB hard disk as something to manipulate cannot be over estimated.
Not even the Oasys does this in the way the Fusion does nor as elegantly.







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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #556334 - 13/12/07 11:31 AM
Quote table for two:


The manual is pretty kack





Agreed.

It's deceptively large as there's a serious lack of ink. In it's favour it comes across as uncomplicated with a touch of humour without being patronising. Yet all it really achieves is to explain what all the onscreen labels mean, which are pretty obvious anyway.

I tried to find references to the dual sound engine and usb implementation in the manual but entries were either very brief or non-existant.

Ofcourse, that's where the forums come in.


Quote hollowsun:

you've obviously 'got it' (in the sense of understanding what it's all about). So many haven't.




What's not to get?

It's a completely open ended sound source with, as far as i'm concerned, infinite storage. i've been filling up my akai z4 with the best quality sample sets i can find for the past 2.5 years and i've only managed to reach about 11 to 12gb. I'm running out of ideas of stuff to put on it.


am getting my head round the song recorder and midi editting now and it's not as gauling as i first thought. you do need a keen ear to work out the note you want to edit mind. but hey, that's probably just good training.

and it's going to take me a while to get used to the usb connection. with the later akais, you can hook up usb and drag and drop your files and all the while play them as they arrive on the machine with 'aksys'. With the fusion, it acts like my Sony Ericcson. It stops functioning while windows treats it as an external storage device before returning to normal once the usb is disconnected. Not a huge problem but it meant that when one of the programs i loaded from my pc needed testing and altering i had to connect the fusion, load the files, disconnect the fusion to try the files, alter the offending file on the pc, reconnect the fusion, upload new file, disonnect fusion, try new file again. Still, most synths of this type don't even offer this feature so can't really complain.


Not, ofcourse, that i want to end on a negative.
I'm still very much in love with this machine (on day 3 ) and i'm certainly in no hurry to try and "conquer" it any time soon. there's no point. it'll take up all that time i should be spending making music.

And if i come across any niggles, i just think "£600"!!!


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #556348 - 13/12/07 12:05 PM
Quote OneManBanned:



It's a completely open ended sound source with, as far as i'm concerned, infinite storage. i've been filling up my akai z4 with the best quality sample sets i can find for the past 2.5 years and i've only managed to reach about 11 to 12gb. I'm running out of ideas of stuff to put on it.






OH YES .... I am almoost having palpitation thinking about this.

The integration of the 80GB harddisk, (which can be upograded to 120GB) !
withthe Fusions achitecture & synth engines is something else.

There is Nothing out there, Not even the Oasys, that does this.
Nor can the Oasys impoort such a large range of hardware & software sample formats ... only Akai S1000/ S3000, aiff, wav Korg's own libraries.
The Oasys is infact quite limited in this.



Quote:

am getting my head round the song recorder and midi editting now and it's not as gauling as i first thought.
you do need a keen ear to work out the note you want to edit mind. but hey, that's probably just good training.




Its pretyy ok. Quite usable. Though I still prefer to export to pc and edit there.


Quote:

With the fusion, it stops functioning while windows treats it as an external storage device before returning to normal once the usb is disconnected.




I think this is a useful unintentional safety feature such that things can't get mucked up in the Fusion


V.Important to ofcoure back up the Fusion first
and uninstall it proerly in windoze by clicking on the Green arrow near the clock Safely Remove Hardware.


Quote:

I'm still very much in love with this machine (on day 3 ) and i'm certainly in no hurry to try and "conquer" it any time soon. there's no point. it'll take up all that time i should be spending making music.
And if i come across any niggles, i just think "£600"!!!




I've had the 8HD for a week now, and played on if for .... all of 2 hrs DOH

I feel its possibilities allows me to go Loads of places my imaginaion takes me.

To me it really is an Out of the box instrument.


And £600 is just ridiculous.


If it had 2 dedicated mic pres, 2 hi-z gtr ins, 8 x100mm faders for mixing, 10.4" colour touch screen
modelling software for mic, gtr, eq, compression, mastering
it would eat the Oasys £5399 for brakfast.

As it is at £600 it almost makes a pancake out of the Oasys


I almost never spend such an amount in one go on myself, esp not music stuff.
But the 8HD gives me a warm glow




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comradec
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: hollowsun]
      #556598 - 14/12/07 01:53 AM
I've had the dreaded email from Turnkey. They won't be taking delivery of my Fusion 6HD until January 16 due to problems at Alesis's end.

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #556608 - 14/12/07 03:22 AM
Quote comradec:

I've had the dreaded email from Turnkey. They won't be taking delivery of my Fusion 6HD until January 16 due to problems at Alesis's end.



Hmmmmmmmm....

Are you in a position to cancel your order, demand a refund under the circumstances and take your business elsewhere ... like to a dealer that can supply in a timely fashion such as T42 and OMB have used?

This seems a bit shabby and I am suspecting some blame shifting (although I can't vouch for the exact circumstances of course).

But this particular dealer's reputation precedes them!

Sorry to hear of your woes.

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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #556633 - 14/12/07 09:37 AM
Quote comradec:

I've had the dreaded email from Turnkey. They won't be taking delivery of my Fusion 6HD until January 16 due to problems at Alesis's end.




Yeah, sorry to hear that Comradec. Maybe i'll shut up going on about how great it is.

Like Steve says, what are your options? i'd tell Turkey to stick it if you can get it elsewhere.


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #556635 - 14/12/07 10:00 AM
Sorry you're being dicked around this way Comrade.

Not nice.

I certainly woouldn't appreciate it.


But hey chin up, its better than getting your ass chewn off by a dog

And by the time you get the Fusion, you will have So Many musical ideas


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paulustlocust



Joined: 07/06/05
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: hollowsun]
      #556644 - 14/12/07 10:28 AM
Quote hollowsun:


Hmmmmmmmm....

Are you in a position to cancel your order, demand a refund under the circumstances and take your business elsewhere ... like to a dealer that can supply in a timely fashion such as T42 and OMB have used?




That's what I'd like to do! I can't find anywhere else that does a 6HD for £400 though... anyone wanna help me out?!

Paul

--------------------
"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it"


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: paulustlocust]
      #556646 - 14/12/07 10:40 AM
Hi Paul

I really think the 8HD for extra £200 is worth going for : the kb is superb
and is so useful for playing, imrpovising, composing, hooking up to PC DAW.

It makes me feel as a "proper" player and makes me want to practce more ... which for a lazy person as me is something.


Various places do the 6HD but at £549, £589 or £599, crazy when teh 8HD is £599 !

Maybe you and Comrade can get a refund. Andertons were excellent with their 24hr delivery.





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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #556669 - 14/12/07 11:35 AM
Quote comradec:

January 16




I'm not going to get much of a chance to play with mine with the build up to xmas anyway.

does that make it any easier?



seriously tho, if you can't find it anywhere cheaper, 4 weeks isn't that long in the grand scheme of things. You may well be using it for years to come. I do understand the frustration tho. I ordered another (controller) keyboard for my band a month and a half ago from Dolphin and they've only just got it in stock. again, they were the only people doing the deal.


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hollowsun



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: paulustlocust]
      #556698 - 14/12/07 01:16 PM
Quote paulustlocust:

That's what I'd like to do! I can't find anywhere else that does a 6HD for £400 though... anyone wanna help me out?!



Just got off the phone to Alesis UK.....

The delay is genuine - the shipment's been held up for reasons unknown. Unfortunately, apart from Anderton's 8HD, seems no-one has any stock and are in the same boat (almost literally!).

So unless you're willing to shell out the extra £200 for Anderton's 8HD, the waiting game is the only option.

Should you choose to go for the 8HD, be sure to check availability with Anderton's first before cancelling your order with Turnkey.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

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comradec
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: hollowsun]
      #556799 - 14/12/07 06:28 PM
I'll wait for January 16. The 8HD isn't really an option for me because I'm no pianist. I've only ever used synth action keyboards and switching to weighted keys at this time in my life would probably deter me from using the Fusion altogether.

I also don't have the space. A 61-noter will fit nicely in the corner allocated for keyboards. An 88-noter would necessitate other things being sold on eBay.

I can live with the delay. It's just that my partner is buying me it for Xmas so it won't be available by then.

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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hollowsun



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #556863 - 14/12/07 10:04 PM
Quote comradec:

The 8HD isn't really an option for me because I'm no pianist. I've only ever used synth action keyboards and switching to weighted keys at this time in my life would probably deter me from using the Fusion altogether.



Without wishing to throw further confusion into the pot....

I thought that about the 8HD having only ever really played synth keyboards but in fact, I like the 8HD's action so much it makes me WANT to play it!

Quote comradec:

I also don't have the space. A 61-noter will fit nicely in the corner allocated for keyboards. An 88-noter would necessitate other things being sold on eBay.



That, of course, is a different, more practical problem.

Quote comradec:

I can live with the delay. It's just that my partner is buying me it for Xmas so it won't be available by then.



That IS a shame

Take some consolation that there'll probably be some new sound banks released by then so some extra goodies to look forward to!

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OneManBanned



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #556894 - 14/12/07 11:34 PM
Roll on floor laughing



Was aiming to get an early night tonight, but just thought i'd upload the Vstream free samples on the fusion (for which i thoroughly recommend Fusion Sort, downloadable here: Fusion Sort thread - be careful which column you drag the files from/to, i can't even remember now). Was happily auditioning them when one struck me as being particularly inspirational. I dialled up a new song and started trying to record. unfortunately nothing happened. I then spent the next 2 hours trying to figure out why the metronome stopped after the count in and no midi was recorded - it had worked for the previous songs i'd created. Anyway, to cut a long story short, i ended up leaving it for a bit, coming back and trying again and, hey presto, the Fusion had HEALED ITSELF

anyway, the real reason i felt like posting was to try and describe the sonic noodlings that came out of the resulting 15 minute recording session. Through no choice of my own, i found i had created a track that sounded like some deliquent bastard child of Kate Bush (Hollowsun's Fairlight samples), Gary Numan and Vangelis (various Vstream's samples). Given that i'm in my mid-20s (ahem) i've never really listened to those guys before (ok, i have a bit) - it just goes to show how the choices made by the sound providers can influence the output from this thing. All the sounds i've downloaded (primarily Hollowsun's and Vstream's freepacks) have a marvelous 80s retro-ness about them without being at all cheesey.

I have to admit, the whole recording process seemed somehow far more fun than booting up Sonar on my pc and specifying midi channels/audio ins etc. it all seemed to get very spontaneous. ofcourse it could never replace the ol' PC DAW, i guess i'm just suprised at how useful the Song function is, an aspect i initially presumed i'd entirely overlook.

i may even post the track up on my experimental myspace page. be warned, it's hilarious in a slightly bad way.


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #556903 - 15/12/07 12:22 AM
Quote OneManBanned:

Roll on floor laughing


anyway, the real reason i felt like posting was to try and describe the sonic noodlings that came out of the resulting 15 minute recording session.
Through no choice of my own, i found i had created a track that sounded like some deliquent bastard child of Kate Bush (Hollowsun's Fairlight samples), Gary Numan and Vangelis (various Vstream's samples)




Happy accidents often bring welcome surprises


Quote:

- it just goes to show how the choices made by the sound providers can influence the output from this thing.
All the sounds i've downloaded (primarily Hollowsun's and Vstream's freepacks) have a marvelous 80s retro-ness about them without being at all cheesey.







Yes these two downloads are synth oriented.

Can download into the Fsuion any sound synth to aocustic
from almost any hardware and software sample format
to sound like whoever, whatever onewants

http://www.soundsonline.com/home.php

http://www.soundsonline.com/Clearance-Sale-c-51.html EASTWEST sale

http://www.inspirationsounds.co.uk/acatalog/Sample-CDs.html

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/electronicproducer1info.php

http://www.wizoosounds.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/wizoosounds?c=e


Will need

Fusion Converter Free for Mac & Windows :
http://www.alesis.com/index.php?id=58,59,0,0,1,0

The Pro version converts many more formats
http://www.chickensys.com/products/sw_iteminfo.php?sw_name=Fusion+Converto r+Pro
http://www.fusionconvertor.com/upgrades/fusionconvertorpro/index.php < br />

Quote:


I have to admit, the whole recording process seemed somehow far more fun than booting up Sonar on my pc
and specifying midi channels/audio ins etc. it all seemed to get very spontaneous.
ofcourse it could never replace the ol' PC DAW,





Oh mos def ... i too have Sonar (3 priducer) and have been on daw's since 2002
and it was doing my head in creatively and musically.
Its so Non spontaneous.
Though I wil stilll use it for serious audio & midi editing.



Quote:

i guess i'm just suprised at how useful the Song function is, an aspect i initially presumed i'd entirely overlook.
i may even post the track up on my experimental myspace page.




I like the way the harddisk is integrated with the sequencer and anything on the harddisk is opned to manipulation.

Pesonally I am startiing to think again aboout buying esoteric and exciting stomp boxes
(a forumee mentioned the Session Award JD-10 responding to playing more like a real amp and speaker)
using the Fusions aux outs and possibly back into the Fusion via its dedicated sample inputs and mangling even more using its synth engines.

All amount of mangelage to be had on any sound ... synth and acoustic






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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 788
Loc: Salisbury
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #556952 - 15/12/07 10:08 AM
Quote table for two:



Can download into the Fsuion any sound synth to aocustic
from almost any hardware and software sample format
to sound like whoever, whatever onewants

http://www.soundsonline.com/home.php

http://www.soundsonline.com/Clearance-Sale-c-51.html EASTWEST sale

http://www.inspirationsounds.co.uk/acatalog/Sample-CDs.html

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/electronicproducer1info.php

http://www.wizoosounds.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/wizoosounds?c=e


Will need

Fusion Converter Free for Mac & Windows :
http://www.alesis.com/index.php?id=58,59,0,0,1,0

The Pro version converts many more formats
http://www.chickensys.com/products/sw_iteminfo.php?sw_name=Fusion+Converto r+Pro
http://www.fusionconvertor.com/upgrades/fusionconvertorpro/index.php




Don't have to tell me twice. As previously mentioned, i've got a z4 and i've already bought from sounds online. I also own the full version of Chicken-Systems Convertor but i've yet to test it out on my akai programs. Will have a dabble over the weekend.

BTW T4T, you considered the RAM upgrade yet?


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comradec
active member


Joined: 21/09/03
Posts: 1609
Loc: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #556954 - 15/12/07 10:16 AM
Quote OneManBanned:

BTW T4T, you considered the RAM upgrade yet?




On that very topic, I read somewhere that the Fusion's RAM upgrade has to be factory-fitted. Is that correct?

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5900
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #556979 - 15/12/07 11:46 AM
Quote OneManBanned:


Don't have to tell me twice. As previously mentioned, i've got a z4 and i've already bought from sounds online. I also own the full version of Chicken-Systems Convertor but i've yet to test it out on my akai programs. Will have a dabble over the weekend.





I really should read back on pevious posts .... i blame the late frrridhhay nite



comradec Quote:

BTW T4T, you considered the RAM upgrade yet?



I think this will have to be done.
Anderton's wern't doing it ...

Quote comradec:

On that very topic, I read somewhere that the Fusion's RAM upgrade has to be factory-fitted. Is that correct?



They are available for purchase I believe ... E3 memory for approx £70, at digital village and one can buy & fit i think
... hopefully Hollowsun Steve can pop in & enlighten







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comradec
active member


Joined: 21/09/03
Posts: 1609
Loc: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #557017 - 15/12/07 01:41 PM
Quote table for two:

Quote comradec:

On that very topic, I read somewhere that the Fusion's RAM upgrade has to be factory-fitted. Is that correct?



They are available for purchase I believe ... E3 memory for approx £70, at digital village and one can buy & fit i think
... hopefully Hollowsun Steve can pop in & enlighten




Actually, I read that in the SOS review of the Fusion: "The Fusion's 64MB memory can be upgraded with a 128MB factory-fitted RAM module" (my emphasis).

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 788
Loc: Salisbury
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #557077 - 15/12/07 04:29 PM
I've read a few threads on the subject on the Fusion forums.

Here's one:

http://promusicproducts.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2573&highligh t=song+record

I think this may be the one in which somebody mentions that they've spoken to alesis who say that installing it yourself doesn't necessarily invalidate the warranty, just as long as you don't break anything. I think we'd all agree that it's probably best to speak to alesis directly.

there's also a very useful pdf with accompanying photographs on how to install both ram modules - apparently one is very easy to access, the other involves a lot more work. the cofusing part is whether or not the ram upgrades offered by DV and Turnkey provide both 128meg modules, one for each signal processor. Some people have mistakenly upgraded only one - apparently not possible according to Alesis yet evidently it is.

If i can find out any more info on warranties i may well go ahead with the upgrade myself. i've no qualifications in electronics but i've upgraded stuff just like this before plus replaced broken pots and switches in various bits of gear. I can't imagine it's too hard.


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #557079 - 15/12/07 04:38 PM
You can fit the memory expansion yourself - it's just bloody fiddly and you have a lot of screws to undo to get to the point where you can just pop the boards in.

If all goes well, you shouldn't invalidate the warranty ... and if you take care, all should go well.

As for the configuration, yes - you do need two boards. It can work with just the one (I gather) but there are 'issues'. Thing is, I don't know how they are sold. The £70 one T42 refers to, for example: I don't know if that is for one memory board or the two - you'd have to check - but you might need to buy two ... or not ... I dunno.

This doesn't help does it?!

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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comradec
active member


Joined: 21/09/03
Posts: 1609
Loc: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: hollowsun]
      #557105 - 15/12/07 06:22 PM
Quote hollowsun:

You can fit the memory expansion yourself - it's just bloody fiddly and you have a lot of screws to undo to get to the point where you can just pop the boards in.




I've successfully completed the same operation for Yamaha's Motif and the RS7000 in the past. It's a bid fiddly and nerve-wrecking if you're not confident about such things, but not really all that difficult, especially if you've undertaken the equivalent task with your computer at any time. It's not likely to be any more of an ordeal than a Motif upgrade, is it?

And how much of a difference does it actually make to performance? My Motif's maximum RAM is 64MB, which the Fusion has built in already. What are the main gains from upgrading? After all, there's already a hard drive in there, something the Motif certainly doesn't have.

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #557175 - 15/12/07 11:53 PM
Quote comradec:

I've successfully completed the same operation for Yamaha's Motif and the RS7000 in the past.



You should be ok.

I've not done it myself (I still have the standard 64MB) but I have seen someone doing it and it just looks a bit involved and fiddly.

Of course, in view of the delay on yours, you could always get Turnkey to fit it at source before they ship it to you.

Quote comradec:

And how much of a difference does it actually make to performance? My Motif's maximum RAM is 64MB, which the Fusion has built in already. What are the main gains from upgrading? After all, there's already a hard drive in there, something the Motif certainly doesn't have.



It just allows more sample-based material to be loaded at once which may or may not be an issue for you. It certainly helps if you're playing live.

It might be worth mentioning that Fusion doesn't load samples like a conventional sampler - there is no specific LOAD mode/page where you must decide in advance what sounds you want loaded, load them and wait while they all load before you can start playing. Instead, they load 'on-demand' when selected as you're flicking through the programs. Furthermore, when the memory is full, if you then select another sample-based sound, instead of giving an 'out of memory' error, it dumps samples from the first program loaded to make space. It's very clever and quite transparent. With the memory expansion installed, you can have more sample-based programs in memory before the system flushes anything.

FYI, sample-based programs typically take a few seconds to load (depending on the size of the samples). As an example, the Yamaha CP70 (which is very detailed and sampled at minor thirds) takes about 4 seconds or so to load.

I don't have the memory expansion installed and in the studio, I have not found this to be a problem.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 788
Loc: Salisbury
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #557366 - 16/12/07 06:41 PM
Ok.

I finally had a chance to try and convert some existing sampler programs i had into Fusion format using Chicken Systems translator with, quite predictably, varying degrees of success.

First off was, what i thought to be, a very simple multisampled tack piano that came in halion format on the front cover of a music mag a few years back. There are no clever modulations or envelopes, the samples are just played back with a small decay when the note is released.

Here's where the first hiccup occured - it turned out to be just over 80meg big! d'oh. looks like i may need the upgrade.

Next up was the much lauded Ultimate Piano collection from East West. This originally came in Akai cd format but after much hair loss and many emails to and from Chicken Systems, i managed to convert to .akp format (for my akai z4) soon after purchase. I chose my particular favourite Fazioli program which is split into two 62meg (or there abouts) programs which the aim of creating a mix using both signal processors (I know i jumped in the deep end here, but this was one i particularly wanted on my Fusion).

The conversion seemed to go fine again, but i couldn't load the second programme once the first had loaded using a mix whereby the second program uses the second processor (or so i've been told). Maybe i'd run out of memory or maybe the conversion hadn't worked. Maybe the fusion uses some of the sample ram to keep songs etc. either way the fusion just grunted and complained and i thought it probably best to start with something simpler.

Onto Hollowsuns Nostalgia sample set which i purchased last month in Kontakt format from Zero-G. I think i'm right in saying that these were originally made with limited RAM in mind so they'd be perfect. I started with about 8 or 9 minimoog patches from the US Classics folder and translator threw up no complaints.

I then A/B'ed the patches alongside Kontakt to see what the differences were.

First off, it was obvious that most didn't sound right. On investigation i found that simply opening up the low pass filter frequency seemed to solve the problem. Interestingly, in most cases, the filter had to have a frequency exactly 100 times that of the converted version in order to sound the same!! presumably a simple coding error. After carrying this ammendment out on my fusion patches plus adding any effects that were present in the Kontakt programs i ended up with some very accurately converted Fusion programs. The whole process taking about an hour and a half.

In my experience of converting from one sampler to another, this is generally the norm. Don't expect to buy a massive 4 gig halion library, load it up in translator and hit "translate" and expect to have all the patches on your fusion within the hour. It simply wont happen.

If you really like a patch then, by all means, port it over, but be prepared to put the time in to tweak it to sound like the original. No sample convert is 100% accurate.


I've not tried the free version of Fusion Sample Convertor as i believe it's just a cut down version of Translator made by the same people. Plus there are other alternative like CD Xtract which i currently have a demo of. I used it on some of the patches in Nostalgia that Translator didn't like and, while it did manage to convert them, the conversions retained none of their envelopes of modulation matrix connections. I'll try CDxtract when i get some more time and see what the outcome is. Past experience proves that the success rate of other convertors varies depending on the source programs. There's another program aswell i've been recommended but i can't bring to mind it's name right now...


My next post will be (if anyone's still reading this) on the subject of the "quirks" we've all heard about. Some might use stronger language. It'd be plain wrong to suggest that the fusion is perfect coz it isn't.

As i'm learning my way around, i'm also learning the pitfalls and the oddities that surround it and i've not seen many of them mentioned before. atleast not on the sos forums or reviews.

watch this space

ps don't worry, all those who're waiting for theirs, it's not "cancel your order time"


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table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5900
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #557377 - 16/12/07 07:17 PM
Heya OMB

I think a fair amount of people who have not converted sample formats may expect 100% conversion,
but those who have experience of conversion know that this is not the case
regardless of what conversion tool they are using and from what to whom they are converting.


I'd be very interested to read of your quirky exeriences

Every hardware has quirks, with the Fusion it just maker us love her more


Given the amount of stuff the Fusion can do,
and only the Oasys (with its complex interface) at 10x the price is the only other instument in the market that compares,
and the ease of use of the Fusions many functions,
one would expect quirks.



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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 788
Loc: Salisbury
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #557410 - 16/12/07 08:35 PM
you're quite right. Many "quirks" could easily be replaced with the word "comprimises", tho not all


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table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5900
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #557423 - 16/12/07 09:08 PM


Personally in terms of hardware I would liked to have seen

1. Sample streaming from hd ... might be tricky to implement. No one has done this.

2. 8x 100mm faders ... theres plenty of real estate on the 8hd.

3. Replacing the dedicated bank buttons, with more dedicated performance knobs that could also be used for pc DAW control
....
the category button, forward backward buttons, prev, next buttons and data wheel are plenty to select sounds.

4. Optical in

5. USB that allowed the Fusion to be as a MIDI Kb controller, not just for data transfer ... a firmware would resolve this i believe.

6. Firewire & ethernet port & the esata port to work.

7. 2 decent mic pres.


But then it might be £1699, still an absolute bargain, though not the steal at £599
... and it would blow the Oasys out the water.


I have been doing a comparison with the Oasys, and the Fusion comes out on top in quite a few aspects:


ability to add literally thousands of quality sounds ... might need the ram upgrade though for some of those big sounds
ability to add far more sampling formats
sample & sound mangling & sculpting
Fusions VA synth is better, Fusions of course also has FM
the mod matrix
routing options
the way the hard disk is open to the Fusions synth engines
the way the hd recorder is integrated with the squencer
immediacy
ease of use.









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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #557428 - 16/12/07 09:22 PM
Quote OneManBanned:

I finally had a chance to try and convert some existing sampler programs i had into Fusion format using Chicken Systems translator with, quite predictably, varying degrees of success.

First off.....



Coo - you jumped in at the deep end a bit there didn't you?!

Most of the convertors/translators only cover the basics such as key mapping and maybe envelopes. They can rarely do LFOs and stuff because of the many different ways they are implemented in the various samplers. As for other parameters (such as filter cutoff), most can only guess.

In other words, it doesn't surprise me you had some trouble with the conversions you tried - I have had exactly the same problems here converting from one format to another over the years.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 788
Loc: Salisbury
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #557552 - 17/12/07 10:56 AM
Quote hollowsun:


Most of the convertors/translators only cover the basics such as key mapping and maybe envelopes. They can rarely do LFOs and stuff because of the many different ways they are implemented in the various samplers. As for other parameters (such as filter cutoff), most can only guess.





I was actually quite suprised at how much info was retained (using Chicken Systems Translator). You're right about the LFOs but i was glad to see that filter type, cutoff (in a way!), keymapping plus many of the basic modulation matrix entries survived intact.

One particular niggle i did have during the whole process was locating missing samples on the Fusion HD. Whenever i loaded up any of the newly converted programs, none of the associated samples were located so i was prompted to do it manually (maybe something to do with the conversion - maybe coz i had already moved them around before checking they worked after verification).

The problem i had here was that the fusion offers you no help in finding the file - you have to cycle through every sample folder on the HD (as far as i know, there's no way to organise these folders) until you've located the file you want. If the program requires another sample from the same folder (or the same sample again!) the fusion sticks you straight back at square one instead of putting you back to the folder you were just in!

I may be wrong on this one but if anyone knows of a work around i'd be eternally indebted. Is there some kind of shortcut?

That's maybe one for the Fusion forums.


Quote table for two:


6. Firewire & ethernet port & the esata port to work.





does the Sata port not work? tut tut

i think i'll have to get my head round this thing a little more before i start banding round more complaints. On several occasions, when something inexplicable has just happened, I've been all ready to launch into some huge rant only realise i've just pressed the wrong button


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #557569 - 17/12/07 11:30 AM
Quote OneManBanned:



One particular niggle i did have during the whole process was locating missing samples on the Fusion HD. ...

- you have to cycle through every sample folder on the HD (as far as i know, there's no way to organise these folders) until you've located the file you want.


... if anyone knows of a work around i'd be eternally indebted. Is there some kind of shortcut?
That's maybe one for the Fusion forums.




FusionSort
http://fusioneer.proboards102.com/index.cgi?board=3rdparty&action=display& thread=1165457188



Quote:

does the Sata port not work? tut tut



No. But I think it showed excellent foresight by Alesis, no one else has one.

Quote:

i think i'll have to get my head round this thing a little more before i start banding round more complaints.
On several occasions, when something inexplicable has just happened, I've been all ready to launch into some huge rant
only realise i've just pressed the wrong button





Back of the class, and await summons to headmistress for your ritual caning


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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 788
Loc: Salisbury
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #557590 - 17/12/07 12:30 PM
Quote table for two:



FusionSort
http://fusioneer.proboards102.com/index.cgi?board=3rdparty&action=display& thread=1165457188





Fusion Sort is a great little program. I'm suprised Alesis didn't provided this kind of software on their website. Anyway, at the moment it doesn't offer any way to organise samples, only programs and banks.


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