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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #557620 - 17/12/07 01:57 PM
Quote OneManBanned:

maybe coz i had already moved them around before checking they worked after verification



Uh-oh!

Fusion Newbie Error #1 - Manually moving samples, multi-samples and programs around on the drive.

The multi-samples and samples used in any program have a pathname that relate to and point to the program(s) that use them. Move any of those around manually and things cannot be found (because the pathname is broken) giving rise to a "XYZ can't be found" error message.

So, for example, you have a program called 'Strings' sitting in a new folder called, say, 'Fusion Strings'. That program has a multi-sample which contains the various component samples. They all have a pathname:

The program is looking for:

HD/Volume/Strings/Strings.afi

The multi-sample is looking for:

HD/Volume/Strings/StrEnsmb1.afs
HD/Volume/Strings/StrEnsmb2.afs
HD/Volume/Strings/StrEnsmb3.afs
HD/Volume/Strings/StrEnsmb4.afs
HD/Volume/Strings/StrEnsmb5.afs

All fine.

But now you move some stuff or maybe rename it to something you prefer. The pathname is broken - the program is looking for stuff in a given location but can't find it.

This is not uncommon on other samplers. Move stuff around or rename stuff on Kontakt, for example, and you can get stuffed. Similarly on your Z4 - programs and samples have to be in the same folder else you'll have problem loading stuff.

This is not uncommon in some apps either. For example, in a document that references some external image, if that image is moved (or indeed, if the document is moved), the pathname is disrupted so can't display it.

Similarly on a website - if an HTML document has an image (or anything else) to link to, if the image (whatever) is moved or renamed, the link is buggered.

As I say, it is (for some reason) one of the first problems Fusion noobs encounter - they go moving stuff around and renaming it and then wonder why they get "Can't find XYZ" error.

I suggest you become more familiar with Fusion and its file structure before messing around too much with the disk contents.

And make sure you have a back-up of a working copy before you go buggering around too much and wreck it beyond rescue.

Alternatively, don't go buggering about with stuff on the disk and just leave it where it was installed!

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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
Posts: 788
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #558485 - 18/12/07 09:25 AM
Hi steve.

Maybe i should've made myself a little clearer. I've never moved any files around on the Fusion HD manually. I've only ever used Fusion Sort, presuming this to be pretty much safe.

I'm all to aware of the pitfalls of moving referenced files in any file system. I maybe a noob to the fusion, but i'm not a noob to sampling in general. Tho i can understand your frustration with probably having to deal with many users going around messing up the HD.


Given that i haven't been misbehaving as such, i'm still left with a slight problem. I checked last night by converting a batch of new programs, the Odyssey pads and basses from folder 1 of Nostalgia. This time i loaded up the new programs straight away and, sure enough, no problems (apart from the inevitable loss of LFOs etc).

I then used Fusion Sort to move the first three programs into the bank where i'm currently storing all Nostalgia programs.

When these three programs are now loaded, the samples cannot be located and yet i've moved plenty of programs around before this way with no problems.

Is there something happening to the sample path that i'm not aware of? I just presumed the samples would be left untouched. If the Odysset samples are being moved then how come this problem has occured before?

when i get a spare 20mins i'll go and maybe take a peek at what's happening to the sample folders.


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OneManBanned



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #558521 - 18/12/07 11:04 AM
Quote OneManBanned:

If the Odysset samples are being moved then how come this problem has occured before?




Sorry, that should read:

"If the Odyssey samples are being moved then how come this problem hasn't occured before?"


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #558524 - 18/12/07 11:06 AM
Quote OneManBanned:

I've only ever used Fusion Sort, presuming this to be pretty much safe.



I don't know - never used it myself.

I think this chat should move HERE A) so as not to bore folk here and B) because there is more likelihood of answers from people with experience of Fusionsort.

Me? I just convert my S5000 stuff using Fusion Convertor and lob it as it at Fusion via USB and all's well.

--------------------
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OneManBanned



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #558704 - 18/12/07 05:43 PM
Oh dear.

This is something to watch out for. I've just had to call up Anderton's and enquire about their returns policy.

I've come to notice that all the black notes play considerably louder than the white notes on my new Fusion 8HD. Infact on standard setting i simply can't get the white notes to play maxiumum velocity whereas it's really quite easy with the black notes. I've also noticed on the fusion forums that this problem has reared it's ugly head before. Hopefully it's just a mechanical problem present in the odd synth.

If I was just using it as a synth i don't think i'd mind or notice, but the aim was for it to become my main studio piano. If, whenever i move to play any black notes, the volume suddenly jumps up it just sounds like i'm playing badly. it's also particularly noticeable when using the reed modelled patches - basically any programs that sound different in the highest velocity areas.

If i haven't already scared everyone off with sample talk, i'll let people know how it pans out....


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #558951 - 19/12/07 02:10 PM
Heya OMB

I'm a newbie too ... a 2 week newbie

Have you tried the different veoclity curves.

I don't think you've sacred off anyone due to sample conversion ...
which is a well known headscratching from decades ago ..
and is ony a part of what the Fusion can do

nor about the kb misbehaving, which is rare on the forums,
plenty of issues and problems in instruments from the big boys too

i'd be surprised if there were such wusses around who did get "scared"

BTW, Keep it away from radiators




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comradec
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #558954 - 19/12/07 02:20 PM
Quote table for two:

BTW, Keep it away from radiators




When you say that, how far away do you mean? Is there a particular issue with Fusion being near heat?

My keyboards stand is quite near a radiator because there's nowhere else for it to go in the little box room I use for a home studio. Not so near that it's caused any problem for my other gear though. Is the Fusion particularly susceptible?

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #558966 - 19/12/07 02:32 PM
The Fusion, apart from the Oasys, is the only such instrument with a hard disk inside it,
and a 7200rpm hd, which ofcourse generates its own heat.

If keeping the Fusion ON (Not off) constantly and always right near a radiator, then one may see the screen brigntess change.

I'd say keep ALL insturments away from heat sources to prolong their life,
esp as these instruments have a psu built in, which ofcourse generates its own heat.


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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #558993 - 19/12/07 03:53 PM
Quote table for two:


Have you tried the different veoclity curves.





yes, this was my first port of call upon discovering the problem. I found most velocity curves only served to exacerbate the problem except for one.

the problem is almost unnoticeable with an exponential velocity curve and scaling of around 30. Unfortunately the side affect is that this seems to compress all the velocities to a very small range. Just tapping the key causes the velocity to jump up to about half and the only way to get lower velocities is to lower the note very slowly, a technique that would result in no sound at all on a proper piano.

anyway, i'll hopefully get a replacement from andertons and, should it suffer from the same problem, i'll have to make a decision about whether or not it's something i think i could live with.

T4T could you do a simple test for me?
could you load up the main piano (can't recall it's name right now) and see how hard you have to hit the white keys and black keys to get the loudest piano sample to play? You can hear the loudest piano sample on each note as it's clearly brighter and sharper than the slightly softer one before it. I can't remember whether or not you have the 8HD or 6HD but, like i said, on mine there's a clear difference in the amount of force needed. i have to absolutely belt the white notes to get them to max velocity. And it's not just my ears that confirm the problem. I've watched the midi output with a monitor on my computer and, sure enough, the numeric velocities between the black and white notes differs significantly - and no, i don't have this problem with my battered upright piano/Roland jv1000/technics px55/Studiologic VMK-161 or Alesis Ion - AFAIK there's nothing wrong with my arms


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_Nuno_



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #559000 - 19/12/07 04:20 PM
Quote OneManBanned:

Quote table for two:


Have you tried the different veoclity curves.





yes, this was my first port of call upon discovering the problem. I found most velocity curves only served to exacerbate the problem except for one.

the problem is almost unnoticeable with an exponential velocity curve and scaling of around 30. Unfortunately the side affect is that this seems to compress all the velocities to a very small range. Just tapping the key causes the velocity to jump up to about half and the only way to get lower velocities is to lower the note very slowly, a technique that would result in no sound at all on a proper piano.

anyway, i'll hopefully get a replacement from andertons and, should it suffer from the same problem, i'll have to make a decision about whether or not it's something i think i could live with.

T4T could you do a simple test for me?
could you load up the main piano (can't recall it's name right now) and see how hard you have to hit the white keys and black keys to get the loudest piano sample to play? You can hear the loudest piano sample on each note as it's clearly brighter and sharper than the slightly softer one before it. I can't remember whether or not you have the 8HD or 6HD but, like i said, on mine there's a clear difference in the amount of force needed. i have to absolutely belt the white notes to get them to max velocity. And it's not just my ears that confirm the problem. I've watched the midi output with a monitor on my computer and, sure enough, the numeric velocities between the black and white notes differs significantly - and no, i don't have this problem with my battered upright piano/Roland jv1000/technics px55/Studiologic VMK-161 or Alesis Ion - AFAIK there's nothing wrong with my arms




As far as I remember this is a pretty common defect in the fusion and there are plenty of reports about it in the fusion forums. My H8D doesn't suffer from it, but if I remember correctly, and I might not, the fix is quite simple and just involves taking the cover off, loosening a few screws and adjusting position of the key bed.


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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: _Nuno_]
      #559004 - 19/12/07 04:31 PM
Really!?!?!

where do i find out how?????

please Nuno, you're my only hope


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_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #559013 - 19/12/07 04:50 PM
Quote OneManBanned:

Really!?!?!

where do i find out how?????

please Nuno, you're my only hope






this thread has some info but upon reading I realized that the keybed misalignment seems to produce clicks on the 8HD, and that the higher velocity in the black keys is a defect with the 6HD. I am not sure aligning the key bed would help in your case



You might want to have a look at the fusion forums and do a search there.

And I'd say it's better to contact alesis before doing anything since that might void your warranty.


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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #559015 - 19/12/07 05:04 PM
yeah, i've just been checking the forums aswell. looks like it maybe related to Alesis compensating for the 6HD keyboard but using the same OS in the 8HD therefore creating a new problem.

cheers for looking tho

Looks like it's back to the shop for mine. Maybe this has something to do with the price slash?


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #559040 - 19/12/07 06:05 PM
Quote OneManBanned:

Maybe this has something to do with the price slash?



Nothing at all.

Some users complained about this on their 6HDs but I've not seen anyone complain about it on their 8HD.

This did seem to be an issue a while back too - I've not heard anyone mention it for like a year or so now however (that I recall anyway).

I don't have the problem here and I can't say that I have ever experienced (or noticed) it on any others (inc. 6HD).

Dunno what to suggest other than getting a replacement but I can't see that happening before Christmas (or until the new year to be honest).

FWIW, my velocity settings are LOG/50.

And as I say, these findings might be better discussed HERE rather than clogging up the SOS forum with it.

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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #559144 - 20/12/07 12:33 AM
Quote OneManBanned:


T4T could you do a simple test for me?




Heya OMB

It is ok on the 8HD that is with me.

Exactly when did this manifest btw. Have you had it for a week and was it fine at the beginning, if so what happened just prior.

Do you want to reset to factory settings and see how you get on ... as the velocity response is os controlled.


Personally from spending a lot of time on the pc forum ... people post only when they have a problem
they never posted prior to having a problem
and
loads of people dodnt post because they don't have a problem
likewise with the posts on the Fusion forums, Yamaha forums, Korg, Roland forums







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OneManBanned



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: hollowsun]
      #559235 - 20/12/07 10:46 AM
Don't worry, after this post i won't continue to 'clog' this thread anymore with this problem.

Quote hollowsun:


FWIW, my velocity settings are LOG/50.





Interestingly, these settings do succeed in ironing out the problem. The side affect, as previously mentioned, is that it's difficult to obtain lower velocity ranges (upto about 55 out of 127). I did manage to get the velocity scaling down to 35 before i noticed any difference between black and white keys tho - TBH i think i could potentially live that. it then responded very similarly to my Fatar keyboard.

Quote table for two:


Exactly when did this manifest btw. Have you had it for a week and was it fine at the beginning, if so what happened just prior.

Do you want to reset to factory settings and see how you get on ... as the velocity response is os controlled.





I first noticed it when i sat down to use the piano for a prolongued period, i don't think it 'started' at any point. i could try a reset i guess, no harm in it given that i'm getting a replacement anyway.

Like you say tho, people only generally pipe up when there's a complaint so i have every confidence that the next one i get will be fine. If you're considering buying one, don't be put of by my experience as it's clearly not widespread.

sorry if i've bored anyone. However, this is a thread regarding the new price of the Alesis Fusion, those who subsequently bought it and their experiences.



ps i've come up with a clear way to test for the black/white note problem. just set Velocity curve to EXP with scaling of 45 and play a chugging black note chord, then play down a semi tone with the same force.


there, i'm all done, and i still got love for da fusion


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Roid



Joined: 23/07/07
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #559288 - 20/12/07 12:45 PM
Actually FWIW I've found this thread valuable as I am considering buying an 8HD myself.


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #559313 - 20/12/07 01:33 PM
Quote OneManBanned:

If you're considering buying one, don't be put of by my experience as it's clearly not widespread.




Yep you are right there, issues as with any other instrment from any other manufacturer, is limited.

I managed to get the 8HD two weeks ago, after I compared it to the motif XS8, fantom X8, Triton TR88 roland vsynth, korg m3 88, kurzweil pc2x, oasys.

The only one that came close to the Fusion was the Oasys £5399.
And once one looks past the "OMG its an Oasys", and looks as what it does
the Fusion wins out on quite a few counts as mentioned above and a few more that i didn't mention


Quote:

i still got love for da fusion



Given the whole heap she can do and the bang per buck she gives


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OneManBanned



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: Roid]
      #559741 - 21/12/07 04:22 PM
Quote Roid:

Actually FWIW I've found this thread valuable as I am considering buying an 8HD myself.




That's not me using another alias by the way
glad to see it's not just me who's benefiting from my rants.

Welcome to the forums, Roid.


You're reading "Alesis Fusion 6HD £399".
The thread that never dies...


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rofox
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #559789 - 21/12/07 06:50 PM
Keep posting OneManBanned, You're helping all of us interested in the Fusion. Since the start of the thread it's been....Yes I will....Oh no I won't..Oh yes I will..
(Well, it is pantomime season!) He's behind you!.
You're not clogging the thread; it's called free exchange of information.


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: rofox]
      #559793 - 21/12/07 07:04 PM
Heya ROfOx

Yes !!!!!

Pleaaaase keep this thread going

its the only thead i've ever had on with so many reponses & views
well ... apart from the "post a picture of yourself" i did in Off Topic about a year ago.


TBH ... once I compared all the other workstations, incluing the

Fantom X8 fully expanded with 4 expansion boards
Motif XS8
KorgM3 88 with Radias board
Korg Oasys

it was a no brainer

It beats the lot of them ....

And if it had just a few additons it would be on a different planet







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Roid



Joined: 23/07/07
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #559816 - 21/12/07 09:21 PM


That's not me using another alias by the way
glad to see it's not just me who's benefiting from my rants.

Welcome to the forums, Roid.


Thank you! Just getting back into music making after a few years domestic hiatus - really can't be faffed to go down the DAW route, so 8HD seems like a good way back in. Now, if only I could find a way to port all my Roland S760 sample library from the redundant scsi SyQuest 270mb cartridges gathering dust in the loft I'd be a happy bunny...


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: rofox]
      #559886 - 22/12/07 03:09 AM
Quote rofox:

Since the start of the thread it's been....Yes I will....Oh no I won't..Oh yes I will..





Quote Roid:

Thank you! Just getting back into music making after a few years domestic hiatus - really can't be faffed to go down the DAW route, so 8HD seems like a good way back in.




This might be of a little use

link




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OneManBanned



Joined: 13/12/04
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #559934 - 22/12/07 11:40 AM
Quote table for two:


This might be of a little use

link







Blimey, T4T! you have been a busy boy. Consider it officially bookmarked.
(You don't work for alesis do you? ).

I've downloaded the free Luc Henrion piano you've linked to but it's only a program file. Presumably it uses existing multis/samples from the rom banks(?). Would love to try it but my Fusion's trussed up like an xmas turkey awaiting exchange Shoulda just kept it out to have a play.

Quote rofox:

Keep posting OneManBanned, You're helping all of us interested in the Fusion.




Oh no. i've suddenly been overcome with a sensation i can only presume is 'responsibility'

Well, where am i in my festive Fusion journey? Like i said, she's all packaged up against one wall in my studio (fusion, not wife) and TBH i really wanna unpack it and have a play (fusion, not wife). I miss her....sniff (again, fusion). I'm almost willing to forgive her for the weighting issue (given that i did pretty much find a work around). The days of files apparently going missing or the occasional long loading times have almost all been forgotten.

Put it this way: If the next one arrives and still has a problem (which i'm assured will be highly unlikely - we'll see) i'll probably just keep it and be happy. Yes i have an akai z4, an Alesis Ion and a technics px55 weighted 88note digital piano. And yes, i've got a PC with sonar, a dictaphone AND a zoom MRS-8 digital 8 track for capturing any 'magic' moments, but somehow having everyone in one keyboard just makes sense. You turn it on, you play. That's when the inspiration comes. Plus, once/if i'm happy with the fusion that lot can go straight on ebay and probably end up paying for the fusion and some. I used to hanker after a complex cave of wonders filled with patch cables, faders and tape loops that reached up to a padded ceiling. I've learnt over the past couple of years that that was simply not conducive to anything. There may be a great atmosphere and opportunities to create some amazing sounds but nothing actually gets done. The fusion has the potential to cut down on all the bits of gear i have lying around and that, to me , is a good thing.

With the fusion, as T4T has said on several occasions, you get an open sound source so what it sounds like is up to you. With this freedom does come responsibility tho and, on the occasions i did find myself trying to load a patch with missing files i soon found a logical source of the problem, namely me, ahem. tho in my defence, the fusion does have a strict filing system where things must be listed and verified. All in all, it'll take you weeks to get used to if you're planning on using it to it's full potential. To me, that learning process is great and all the more satisfying once you've mastered it.

Anyway, none of you bad lads should be thinking about forking out £600 on a keyboard 3 days before xmas!!!


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table for two
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: OneManBanned]
      #559989 - 22/12/07 03:15 PM
Quote OneManBanned:


(You don't work for alesis do you? ).






I could do with a mem upgrade to 2x192MB.

Also an Alesis IO firewire audio card.


Quote:

With the fusion ... you get an open sound source so what it sounds like is up to you. With this freedom does come responsibility




Aye ....

With great power comes great responsibility.






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comradec
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #560032 - 22/12/07 05:45 PM
The thread that refused to die ...

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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Roid



Joined: 23/07/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Somerset
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #560429 - 24/12/07 01:03 PM
Quote table for two:

Quote rofox:

Since the start of the thread it's been....Yes I will....Oh no I won't..Oh yes I will..





Quote Roid:

Thank you! Just getting back into music making after a few years domestic hiatus - really can't be faffed to go down the DAW route, so 8HD seems like a good way back in.




This might be of a little use

link







Thanks for that T42 - my, what a load of resources!!

Anyway, have decided to take the plunge & pick up my 8HD on 27/12 - Merry Christmas to me. And everyone else,of course, especially those providing such helpful info.

I'll let you know how we get on!


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OneManBanned



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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #563507 - 04/01/08 07:16 PM
I hate to say it boys and girls but i've just had my Fusion 8HD replaced by Anderton's with another brand spanking new one only to find...

THE KEYBOARD ISSUE STILL EXISTS!!
(black notes play at higher velocities than white notes)


just as i suspected. The topic has appeared on numerous occasions throughout the fusions lifetime - not something you generally get with other keyboards. Anyway, i plugged it in and did exactly the same test i mentioned earlier in the thread and, lo and behold, exactly the same problem occured.

Before anyone launches into a rant about "bad batches" and the chances being second to none, a member of the fusion forums posted up an email he received from Alesis admitting to the problem but the moderators have since removed the quote.

here are some other threads on the issue (can't remember if the one i refered to is here):

Fusionzone 1

Fusionzone 2

Fusionzone 3

Fusionzone 4

there are more but you can find them yourselves.

The idea i suggested earlier about it maybe being something to do with alesis dropping the price doesn't seem quite so far removed now.

I'd be open to the idea that i did simply have a bad couple of machines if it weren't for the aforementioned reasons plus the fact that the problem is absolutely identicle on both and there is clearly nothing mechanically wrong with either.


So what now? well, i'm going to spend the weekend worknig out if it's something i feel i can live with. If you've got an 8HD and don't notice the problem then you're lucky - i suspect it's probably there tho.

However, there is some good news. As i mentioned, tweaking the velocity curves can iron out most of the problem plus it's only really noticeable with sounds that trigger different samples at different velocities e.g pianos, guitars.

I really WANT to forgive and forget. time will tell....



I apologise if this contradicts other people's experiences or interests. I'm only relaying my own discoveries and i fully admit that there is no proof that all Fusions suffer from this defect.


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oggy1310
new member


Joined: 10/03/03
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #570312 - 21/01/08 03:52 PM
So....
300 pages later - has anyone actually ever bought one of these for this price (and had it delivered) - or is this just a Turnkey scam?

I rang them earlier and they said they had none in stock but said if I ordered one they would get one in within 7-10 days.
Likely?


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paulustlocust



Joined: 07/06/05
Posts: 186
Loc: Northampton, UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: oggy1310]
      #570396 - 21/01/08 06:18 PM
Quote oggy1310:

So....
300 pages later - has anyone actually ever bought one of these for this price (and had it delivered) - or is this just a Turnkey scam?

I rang them earlier and they said they had none in stock but said if I ordered one they would get one in within 7-10 days.
Likely?




Hmmm... I've been waiting 9 weeks so far! Getting very close to cancelling

--------------------
"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it"


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grahawk



Joined: 07/09/04
Posts: 432
Loc: Berkshire
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #570406 - 21/01/08 06:36 PM
The rumour is that Alesis have discountinued the Fusion and no more are being made so getting new stocks might be tricky.


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comradec
active member


Joined: 21/09/03
Posts: 1609
Loc: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: grahawk]
      #570415 - 21/01/08 07:01 PM
Quote grahawk:

The rumour is that Alesis have discountinued the Fusion and no more are being made so getting new stocks might be tricky.




I suspect that the rumour is true. Let's face it, the Fusion hasn't exactly been a runaway success, commercially speaking.

But that doesn't mean it's not worth buying one if you get the opportunity. Buying end-of-line products is often a good way to save money. I bought my Yamaha Motif just after they'd announced the release of the Motif ES.

Where did Alesis go wrong, though? The marketing really does seem to have been crap for starters. But then, for all its merits, the Fusion doesn't quite into any category very neatly. Alesis tried to make it a bit more than a synthesizer by adding workstation features, but they missed out some of the key ones that make a contemporary workstation worth having - particularly sample time-stretching and beat synchronisation.

I'm still waiting for mine. I ordered it from Turnkey back in December shortly after this thread started. They promised it for December 20. Then for January 16. Now for January 24. We shall see ...

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #570564 - 22/01/08 04:02 AM
Quote comradec:

Quote grahawk:

Where did Alesis go wrong, though? The marketing really does seem to have been crap for starters. But then, for all its merits, the Fusion doesn't quite into any category very neatly. Alesis tried to make it a bit more than a synthesizer by adding workstation features, but they missed out some of the key ones that make a contemporary workstation worth having - particularly sample time-stretching and beat synchronisation.



All of the above is true. As I see it....

MARKETING:

They were a little over-enthusiastic in their claims at its launch (it happens and Alesis are not unique in that respect). This was compounded by the fact that the V1.00 release was pretty buggy, the sounds were 'challenged' and incomplete and it didn't live up to those claims (again, not something unique to Alesis). What followed, therefore, was not a development of new features but a damage repair operation. What also followed was an almost universal damning of the instrument across internet forums and in blogs, etc., that earned Fusion a reputation for being buggy and unreliable (which at the time, wasn't untrue). Alesis did sort out the major problems relatively quickly, even adding some new features along the way but unfortunately, the V1.00 reputation stuck.

By January 2006, however, things were looking different. The OS was in much better shape, the factory sounds had been tidied up and Fusion wasn't looking too shabby. Then I was asked to create some new library and Alesis released this free of charge to some acclaim. Further quality sound updates were released on a regular basis. Things were looking better (although there were still its detractors that weren't helping matters).

But then Alesis announced a price reduction and once again, the forums were full of aggrieved users ranting about this (not unsurprisingly perhaps) and legal action was threatened, etc., even though price reductions are common in all sorts of businesses when things aren't selling as expected (and I don't recall the same level of vitriol levelled at Korg when they dropped the price of their Radius). But whatever, more bad vibes about Fusion on the interweb!

Then, not long after, Fusions started shipping with 80GB drives instead of 40GB. This was simply because they couldn't get 40GB drives and 80GB drives were pretty much the same price as the 40GB they used to ship. More interweb rantings from aggrieved users who felt ripped off.

Most bugs seem to have been eradicated (even though some users were attributing operational quirks as bugs and many reported problems were often pilot error) but one outstanding one was where audio tracks could slip out of time with MIDI tracks. This (along with some others) was fixed in V1.24 and things did quieten down pretty much in the Fusion community. The problem, however, was that Fusion still had a bad reputation and people who were genuinely interested were still seeing the debris of the V1.00 and price reduction debacle when they Googled around for info. Some read between the lines or saw beyond what they read but many still had doubts (even to this day).

SYNTH vs WORKSTATION

Yes - in hindsight (and IMO) Alesis might have been better off marketing the thing as a synth/sampler first and foremost with a sequencer thrown in for good measure (not unlike, perhaps, EMu did with their E4K). As a synth/sampler combo, Fusion is hard to beat but it is not (arguably) a 'workstation' in the strict sense of the word. The sequencer is actually ok and quite serviceable once you get used to it but it is, admittedly, a bit fiddly (as are many on-board sequencers) and I prefer to use my MPC for sequencing duties; others use Mac/PC sequencers.

But therein lies another thorn in Fusion's side : the on-board sequencer is linear and not pattern-based and this pissed a LOT of users off for some reason and led to yet more forum ranting, some of which continues to this day with people (still) demanding a pattern-based sequencer in an update. All of which (combined with other ranting) puts potential customers off.

Also, many people bought Fusions thinking they were getting - I dunno - an 'arranger' keyboard or something. Fusion is a heavy duty synth/sampler that requires you to know what you're up to and frankly (and with respect), some people bought Fusion without knowing a filter from a poke in the eye (hence Alesis releasing their various tutorials including one on analogue synthesis and another on sampler basics). But some were reporting issues as 'bugs' when in fact, some were just down to them not understanding some basic principles and when asked if they'd read the tutorials, you'd often get the answer "Yes but I didn't understand it". I don't know what some were expecting when they slapped their money down.

CATEGORY

Yes - Fusion doesn't fit well into any particular category. Is it a synth or a sampler or a workstation or what? Then there's the somewhat unconventional styling. All a bit confusing as to what it is.

Then there's the dreaded disk drive and the lure of unlimited expandability - a stroke of genius and also a millstone. For reasons I will never understand, some people take delivery of their Fusion. Do they play with it and see what it can do? Do they try out the various sounds or play with the sequencer and get a feel for how it works? Do they get a feel for basics and take it from there? Like hell they do! Instead, the first thing they do is hook up their Fusion to their PC, go buggering about with the drive contents, move stuff around, deleting stuff, renaming stuff, adding their own soundfonts and converting library (whatever) and then wonder why they get error messages ... and broadcast their frustrations on internet forums thus exacerbating the reputation to potential takers that Fusion is a crock of unreliable shite to be avoided!

All of the above (and more) is why Fusion (IMO and as I have seen it) wasn't the success and the potential it had to be - a catalogue of various disasters .... but a godsend to those looking for a bargain now.

But I stand by my previous statements - Fusion isn't perfect but she's not as imperfect as some interweb agendists would have you believe. I have had my 8HD for almost two years now and have developed and released several hundred MB of sound library without any problems (and any that I have had were of my own making and stupidity). Since V1.22, she's never crashed or locked up or bombed out on me - in fact, she has been thoroughly reliable.

I don't know what else to say on the matter to be honest!

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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comradec
active member


Joined: 21/09/03
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Loc: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: hollowsun]
      #571044 - 23/01/08 02:55 AM
The thing that really surprised me about Alesis' marketing of, and support for, the Fusion was the sudden disappearance of the dedicated website they'd set up for it.

A couple of years ago when Alesis started showcasing the Fusion at industry shows and suchlike, they published a Fusion site containing information about their forthcoming synth. Lots of pics, Q&A-type sections, pages for downloading resources, etc. I registered with the site to receive updates when the Fusion finally shipped but none ever arrived, which seems a missed opportunity to draw it to potential customers' attention again.

Then when I went to revisit the site, which was saved in my bookmarks, earlier in 2007, I found that it had gone offline completely and the only product support information available was that on Alesis' main site. This was disappointing as the early indications were that the site could have been developed to become a user-supporting resource of the type that KeyFax were commissioned to design around Yamaha's Motif range. Yet suddenly Alesis appeared to have relegated the Fusion to the status of 'just another product' rather than the flagship model I expected it would be. I don't think that can have helped its profile at all. And it also left users with problems nowhere official to air their grievances and receive product support. People complain about the Motif all the time on Motifator.com but, critically, Yamaha has put its technical staff at the disposal of the user community and they answer queries, share tips, make suggestions, etc, right there on the site for all to see and benefit from.

Edited by comradec (23/01/08 02:55 AM)


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comradec
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Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #572251 - 25/01/08 09:21 PM
My Fusion 6HD arrived today. At last.

It's early days - I'm still working through the presets - but initial impressions are favourable.

I was surprised at how much smaller it is than my Yamaha Motif 6. I guess that's mainly because the pitchbend and modulation are located above the keys rather than to the left of them.

Not sure how I transpose the octaves up and down yet. I suppose I'll figure that out eventually (but grateful for any quick tips in the meantime).

Anyway, I'll see how it goes and let you know how I get on. Probably in a new thread, though. This one's a little long in the tooth now.

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: comradec]
      #572786 - 27/01/08 11:14 PM
Quote comradec:

My Fusion 6HD arrived today. At last.





Quote comradec:

Not sure how I transpose the octaves up and down yet. I suppose I'll figure that out eventually (but grateful for any quick tips in the meantime).



Yes - bloody silly oversight on Alesis' part. Anyway....

Press and hold the LOCATE key and press the key you want to transpose to. So for example, to transpose up an an octave, LOCATE+C4.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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can7ona



Joined: 20/05/05
Posts: 43
Loc: UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #584264 - 24/02/08 01:05 PM
First off I'm sorry if bringing this post back from the dead upsets anyone or is against some (unknown to me) rules - I just figured it made sense as my question is related to some of the replies posted here.

Basically, at the moment I'm very much "in the box" when it comes to my music making and am looking for a sound source that is different from all the VSTs I have (mainly Ivory, BFD, Komplete 5, Lounge Lizard and Reason) and I can play without having to wait for the PC and Cubase to load up.

I'm very confused still about what the Fusion is but am very attracted by the price (assuming they're still about). I think from what everyone here has said, it is mainly something to load your samples on to play them - in which case I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for - rather than a sounds source that is different from what I already have - but I'd be grateful if someone could spell it out for me in complete novice/dumbass/layman's terms.

I've been wanting to go and play with one in the local Sound Control but just haven't been able to find time lately and I guess my confusion/uncertainty isn't helping my motivation to make time - might as well admit that upfront(!)

If I am right that it's not really for me I'd appreciate advice on what would be a good starting point in the synth world - but I realise that may require another thread.

--------------------
Sham
www.soulchefs.co.uk


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MarkOne



Joined: 15/02/07
Posts: 1165
Loc: Bristol, England, Earth, Perus...
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: can7ona]
      #584303 - 24/02/08 04:05 PM
Quote can7ona:

First off I'm sorry if bringing this post back from the dead upsets anyone or is against some (unknown to me) rules - I just figured it made sense as my question is related to some of the replies posted here.

Basically, at the moment I'm very much "in the box" when it comes to my music making and am looking for a sound source that is different from all the VSTs I have (mainly Ivory, BFD, Komplete 5, Lounge Lizard and Reason) and I can play without having to wait for the PC and Cubase to load up.

I'm very confused still about what the Fusion is but am very attracted by the price (assuming they're still about). I think from what everyone here has said, it is mainly something to load your samples on to play them - in which case I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for - rather than a sounds source that is different from what I already have - but I'd be grateful if someone could spell it out for me in complete novice/dumbass/layman's terms.

I've been wanting to go and play with one in the local Sound Control but just haven't been able to find time lately and I guess my confusion/uncertainty isn't helping my motivation to make time - might as well admit that upfront(!)

If I am right that it's not really for me I'd appreciate advice on what would be a good starting point in the synth world - but I realise that may require another thread.




First and foremost, in my opinion, it's a synth.

There are in fact 4 synths.

A Sample playback synth (more about which later)
A virtual analogue synth with 3 oscillators multiple filter types and a really advanced routing matrix
An FM synth (somewhat like the DX7, but not quite)
and finally the weakest synth a physical modelling synth (limited number of reed and pipe models)

The sample playback section is in fact a full blown sampler, you can sample your own sounds, or using the conversion utility use Akai samples or soundfonts (or using the ChickenSys converter, pretty much any format you want)

The hard drive means that you are never likely to run out of space for samples. Hollow Sun who posts here has produced loads of free banks for the fusion, plus one commercial one. All his stuff is brilliant (some of it transcends brilliance!) There is also Back In Time records (google 'em) creating commercial banks for it. there is pretty good user community creating sounds too. Some of which are very good!

For me where it gets interesting is you can use mix mode to layer samples, VA, FM and PM sounds into fabulous textures. You can split them over the keyboard, you can layer them (up to 8 at a time) to create very complex mixes.

Then there is the sequencer, which is OK, but not something I've really delved into , because I do all my sequencing in Cubase, there is an 8 track audio recorder, which you can combine with the sequencer to create songs. Again it's OK but not something I've explored hugely.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions (or take them to The Fusion Club Forum where you will find lots of helpful people.

Hope this helps.

--------------------
New album 'Fantasy Bridge' available now!
Making of Fantasy Bridge Diary


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comradec
active member


Joined: 21/09/03
Posts: 1609
Loc: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: can7ona]
      #584405 - 24/02/08 09:01 PM
Quote can7ona:

I've been wanting to go and play with one in the local Sound Control but just haven't been able to find time lately and I guess my confusion/uncertainty isn't helping my motivation to make time - might as well admit that upfront(!)




It's extremely unlikely that you'll find one in stock at your local Sound Control anyway. Since SC and Turnkey (which is owned by SC) did the £399 offer on the Fusion 6HD, they've had all their allocation accounted for in pre-orders. So as soon as they come in they're already on the way out.

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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can7ona



Joined: 20/05/05
Posts: 43
Loc: UK
Re: Alesis Fusion 6HD £399 new [Re: table for two]
      #584449 - 25/02/08 12:23 AM
Thanks for the great replies...

I guess maybe I'm concentrating too much on the sampler side of the instrument then. I just figured that I could use my samples in the PC rather than converting and transferring them onto the Fusion (perhaps I'm too new to proper hardware anything to understand this concept! lol!)

Am I right in thinking that I could layer included samples with my own samples? That would definitely make it more appealing then. Also, that basically it is more "powerful" than anything else out there like a Fantom or Motif etc?

I guess at the current price point you can't really go wrong at all when compared to the price of the competition - but I just don't like making mistakes in that sense.

I say local SC but it isn't really convenient for me to go there so I'm glad I didn't waste a trip there. After a bad experience with the SC under the Virgin shop on Charing X Rd or Tottenham Court Road (can't remember exact location) I don't really like the company! While I'm on that particular topic I would like to say that people give Turnkey more of a hard time than its workers truly deserve - but that's for another topic on another day! :-)

Thanks again - will look at the Fusion Forum in the morning .

--------------------
Sham
www.soulchefs.co.uk


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