Quote can7ona:

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Am I right in thinking that I could layer included samples with my own samples? That would definitely make it more appealing then. Also, that basically it is more "powerful" than anything else out there like a Fantom or Motif etc?

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That would be too general a statement. It really depends what you're trying to do.

When it comes to looping sampled drum beats and riffs, the Fusion is way, way *behind* workstations like the Fantom, Motif, Triton and M3. For one, very important, thing there's no time-stretching facility on the Fusion, which means you can't increase or decrease the tempo of a sampled loop. But that's basic stuff on its Roland, Yamaha and Korg rivals.

If that sort of sampling is important to your music, then the Fusion is a no-no unless you plan to use it with an external sampler (hardware or software). Pair it up with a Roland SP-606, SP-555 or similar, though, and you'll have a very good combination for a lot less money than you'd pay out for the other synth workstations on the market.

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Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke

I thnk I saw an advert in Andertons for the 6HD at £399 in this months SOS...

I think it's well worth it, I waited ages for mine to turn up but it's great. Especially at that price!

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"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it"

Sorry for being vague - it was late at night!

Mainly I want something that will have sounds, or the potential to create sounds, that I don't already have. If there are some overlaps I'm ok with that as my other requirement is to have something that I can just play sounds on without having to wait for the PC and Cubase to load up.

In terms of drum loops I doubt I'd use the Fusion or anything else for that as I'm happy with BFD and my samples I use in Battery. I'm not sure how the lack of time-stretching would affect me - sorry for being dumb - could you explain how that's something that would be a negative for me given that I'd record everything into Cubase and use that as my sequencer.

I already have a 61 key MIDI keyboard that I'm quite happy with so I think I'd go for the 88 key Fusion so that I have something different and maybe that will help improve my (limited) playing ability.

I guess the problem I have is that I think I want it, but I'm not sure if it's what I need - I had the same problem with the Open Labs NeKo in that I really loved the idea of it but it just wasn't what I needed.

Thanks for all the advice.

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Sham
www.soulchefs.co.uk

Quote can7ona:

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Mainly I want something that will have sounds, or the potential to create sounds, that I don't already have. If there are some overlaps I'm ok with that...

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Fusion is a pretty respectable analogue synth, an FM synth, a good 'old-skool' sampler and a 'ROMpler' (for playing back preset factory samples) and a all in one box. Individually, these 'engines, are none too shabby but collectively, it can be a potent combination and separates Fusion apart from most other synth/workstations out there which, unless they have some optional board installed, are strictly sample-based only (Korg Oasys being the only exception).

So to do 'analogue' synthesis on Fusion, you're dealing with samples of raw analogue waveforms rather than samples of them as on yer typical 'workstation. This has distinct advantages in that Fusion can do real-time pulse width modulation, oscillator sync, ring modulation, cross modulation, etc., that are not possible on a sample-based products where all you have are static samples of these.

Similarly, on a sample-based synth, to do FM, all you have to play with are static samples of FM sounds whereas on Fusion you can sculpt your own FM AND control them in real-time.

The sampler is a pretty standard 'old skool' thing not a million miles away from, say, an Akai S3000XL. This can playback factory samples held in ROM or your own samples.

Each 'engine' has a multi-mode resonant filter offering low, band, high pass (with variable roll-off slopes), a 'modelled' filter (based on ARP2600) and various notch and formant filters plus oodles of LFOs and envelopes, 32 true sample+hold processors, slew limiters and more all patched together in a very comprehensive mod matrix.

And all that doesn't include the Physical Modelling synth which can make some pretty whacked out sounds (even if the perfect modelled flute is elusive on it!), a drum sampler (uses the sampling engine but more suited to drums), arpeggiators, a (scratchpad) sequencer, effects, insert effects and, rather significantly, an 80GB internal hard drive to store everything (including hundreds of MB of free sound library that's available for free download!).

I don't know if she could make any sounds you don't already have but she can make some pretty unique sounds, even more so when you come to layering these in Fusion's MIX mode.

Quote can7ona:

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my other requirement is to have something that I can just play sounds on without having to wait for the PC and Cubase to load up.

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Fusion certainly fits the bill with regard to switching on and getting jiggy

Quote can7ona:

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In terms of drum loops I doubt I'd use the Fusion or anything else for that as I'm happy with BFD and my samples I use in Battery. I'm not sure how the lack of time-stretching would affect me - sorry for being dumb - could you explain how that's something that would be a negative for me given that I'd record everything into Cubase and use that as my sequencer.

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Well... quite. If you want to chop up beats and stuff, you can use ReCycle, export in Akai S5000 format and port that to Fusion via Alesis' own convertor software.

Quote can7ona:

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I already have a 61 key MIDI keyboard that I'm quite happy with so I think I'd go for the 88 key Fusion so that I have something different and maybe that will help improve my (limited) playing ability.

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That sounds like a very sensible idea ... and the 8HD's keyboard is particularly nice I have to say.

The thing is, if you are going to decide on Fusion, you're going to have to move quickly! Since prices fell to the absurd point they're at now, she's hot property and a lot of people are snapping up a real bargain!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

WOW! Thanks for that reply - I think I'm definitely sold on it - all I need is to find the cheapest price (I think Turnkey have the 88 at £549 now) and time my credit card payment date!

Before reading your post I was very tempted by the Nord Lead 2X which is now £469.99 at Andertons but I guess the Fusion would allow me to do so much more with the sounds than the Nord would.

Thanks to everyone for the replies - much appreciated!

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Sham
www.soulchefs.co.uk

Quote hollowsun:

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So to do 'analogue' synthesis on Fusion, you're dealing with samples of raw analogue waveforms rather than samples of them as on yer typical 'workstation. This has distinct advantages in that Fusion can do real-time pulse width modulation, oscillator sync, ring modulation, cross modulation, etc., that are not possible on a sample-based products where all you have are static samples of these.

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Ooooops ..... and I am beyond my 'edit time'.... so .... correction:

So to do 'analogue' synthesis on Fusion, you're dealing with RAW, ELECTRONICALLY GENERATED ANALOGUE WAVEFORMS rather than samples of them as on yer typical 'workstation'. This has distinct advantages in that Fusion can do real-time pulse width modulation, oscillator sync, ring modulation, cross modulation, etc., that are not possible on a sample-based products where all you have are static samples of these.

Sorry about that slip

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote can7ona:

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WOW! Thanks for that reply - I think I'm definitely sold on it - all I need is to find the cheapest price (I think Turnkey have the 88 at £549 now) and time my credit card payment date!

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CHECK THAT THEY HAVE STOCK!!!!!!

Sorry to shout but I gather some have been caught out on this.

I have just spoken to Andertons (with whom I have absolutely no affiliation BTW) and they have several 8HDs in stock at £599. The extra £50 is worth it IMO as they appear to offer good service (from what I have heard from other new Fusion users who have recently bought from them).

Quote can7ona:

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Before reading your post I was very tempted by the Nord Lead 2X which is now £469.99 at Andertons but I guess the Fusion would allow me to do so much more with the sounds than the Nord would.

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Definitely but with the caveat that with that extra power and programming depth comes added levels of operational complexity ... naturally! Not that Fusion's hard to use (far from it IMO) but there is a UI to navigate which can be a little, shall we say, 'quirky' in places but you certainly get a very big bang for your buck with Fusion.

I mention this just in case the knobby immediacy of the Nord appeals to you.

That said, the Nord (whilst excellent) is a one-trick pony compared with Fusion in the long term - in two or three years time, you can (and will) still be adding more and more varied sounds (analogue, FM, samples) and mangling them in Fusion whereas with the Nord, you'll still be making the same analogue sounds you did when you bought it.

Your call though!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote hollowsun:

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I have just spoken to Andertons (with whom I have absolutely no affiliation BTW) and they have several 8HDs in stock at £599. The extra £50 is worth it IMO as they appear to offer good service (from what I have heard from other new Fusion users who have recently bought from them).

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Wow thanks for checking that! They offer a price match as well I believe so might just go with them. Being an ex-employee of Turnkey I thought I'd give the sale to an old friend of mine but if he's not there now I'll go through Andertons tomorrow morning!

Quote hollowsun:

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I mention this just in case the knobby immediacy of the Nord appeals to you.

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No the knobby immediacy over the Fusion wouldn't have made the difference - I'm coming fresh from the box and plugins so I think the Fusion will be plenty immediate for me (if that makes sense! lol!)

Quote hollowsun:

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That said, the Nord (whilst excellent) is a one-trick pony compared with Fusion in the long term - in two or three years time, you can (and will) still be adding more and more varied sounds (analogue, FM, samples) and mangling them in Fusion whereas with the Nord, you'll still be making the same analogue sounds you did when you bought it.

Your call though!

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That and the fact that the Nord has been around, and used, for a long time now so worries about a replacement coming out soon and the fact that most of the sounds will already have been used over and over made me think that the Fusion will be relatively fresher and more flexible.

I'm getting a bit excited now - my first proper synth! All I need now are some piano/keyboard lessons! lol!

Thanks again

PS - I really look forward to trying out the Speak-and-Spell additions you've made having never heard them before so thanks for that as well!

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Sham
www.soulchefs.co.uk

Quote can7ona:

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Wow thanks for checking that!

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No problem. I did so because this thread has had others contacting me about availability so I thought I'd check.

Speak to Giles there

Quote can7ona:

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They offer a price match as well I believe

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They do but bear in mind that you'll be negotiating with a weak hand - price matching only works when the dealer's competition has stock. If they don't, the dealer has the upper hand! But try 'em - they might be flexible. Even if they don't, £599 is still a steal for the 8HD.

Quote can7ona:

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I'm getting a bit excited now - my first proper synth! All I need now are some piano/keyboard lessons! lol!

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Quote can7ona:

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PS - I really look forward to trying out the Speak-and-Spell additions you've made having never heard them before so thanks for that as well!

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I don't think you'll find another workstation offering those particular samples!!!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Well DV had one left and did it for £530 for me so went with them!

Should arrive Thursday now (fingers crossed!)


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Sham
www.soulchefs.co.uk

Quote can7ona:

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Well DV had one left and did it for £530 for me so went with them!

Should arrive Thursday now (fingers crossed!)

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Cool!

You might find it arrives earlier - others have.

Have fun when it arrives and heed the following advice.....

Take it out of the box(es) and hook it up and play with it for a while to make sure it's all working ok (not that Fusion is statistically any worse than other gear). Spend a day or two getting a feel for her

I suggest this because there is a curious phenomenon whereby new Fusion users take it out of the carton(s), hook it up to their PC/Mac and instantly go buggering about with the contents of the drive, moving stuff around, deleting stuff they don't think they want and stuffing it full of dodgy soundfonts downloaded from equally dodgy sites.....

And then get onto their dealer (or internet forums!) to complain that the thing is broken and has error messages when trying to load sounds! I kid you not.

In other words, get to know her first and establish all's well before embarking on hard disk buggery. And before you do embark, back-up the contents of the drive in case anything goes wrong.

Not that you have anything to worry about (and not that you'd be so foolhardy!!) but I have had over two years watching people screwing their Fusions this way!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

I asked for it to come on Thurs so I can take a day off work to play with it! lol!

Yeah I've read a lot of posts in this thread and others where people have tried a little too much too soon. Also, as it is my first hardware synth I think I just want to spend some time with it as it is and enjoy it for a while... though I'm so tempted by that speak-and-spell! (I'm far too curious for my own good sometimes!)

One thing I did want to ask though, if the unit comes with an older o/s should I update that first or play with it as it is and then upgrade the o/s?

Also, something that has just come to me, given that Alesis have given up on this unit, would it not be possible for them to open up the o/s or platform (can't remember the right term) to users so that those who feel inclined to can take it further and implement the things that were promised but, as far as I know, didn't arrive? (like the SATA port for example). It would be a bold move and one that I don't think has been done before, it's just that this unit seems to have so much unrealised potential (from what I've been reading on it) that it would be a shame to let it "rot" if you know what I mean.

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Sham
www.soulchefs.co.uk

Quote can7ona:

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I asked for it to come on Thurs so I can take a day off work to play with it! lol!

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Ah! Right. Fair enough.

Quote can7ona:

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Yeah I've read a lot of posts in this thread and others where people have tried a little too much too soon. Also, as it is my first hardware synth I think I just want to spend some time with it as it is and enjoy it for a while... though I'm so tempted by that speak-and-spell! (I'm far too curious for my own good sometimes!)

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They can wait.

Good move to just 'enjoy' her first!

Quote can7ona:

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One thing I did want to ask though, if the unit comes with an older o/s should I update that first or play with it as it is and then upgrade the o/s?

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I'd like to think it comes with the latest OS (1.24 .... but 1.23 would be ok too).

But OS updating is easy and pretty bombproof. Instructions are available (can't quite remember the process and it's been ages since I updated).

Quote can7ona:

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Also, something that has just come to me, given that Alesis have given up on this unit, would it not be possible for them to open up the o/s or platform (can't remember the right term) to users so that those who feel inclined to can take it further and implement the things that were promised

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Little or no likelihood of that for any number of reasons....

IP (would you publish your trade secrets for your competitors to get hold of? ), customer support issues, documentation, developer support, etc..

Quote can7ona:

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It would be a bold move and one that I don't think has been done before

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Probably for the reasons stated above

Quote can7ona:

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it's just that this unit seems to have so much unrealised potential (from what I've been reading on it) that it would be a shame to let it "rot" if you know what I mean.

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I know exactly what you mean but whilst it's not for me to say, it ain't ever gonna happen!!!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote hollowsun:

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IP (would you publish your trade secrets for your competitors to get hold of? ), customer support issues, documentation, developer support, etc...

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I'm a bit of a strange one, probably why I've been thinking about this.

Under normal circumstances I don't think any company would reveal their secrets but the only reason I asked is that it seems like they've just plain given up. If they were planning on replacing it then fair enough - but that's not the impression I'm getting (but then what do I know!). Besides I'm sure there's a lot of reverse engineering going on between all the major companies - happens in pretty much all the industries.

I just thought it might help improve the reputation and cement it as a classic if the o/s itself were made open to a community in the way Linux is, so that at the very least those promised features could be added.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not starting to complain about it as I've not even got it yet, just putting out an idea/asking a question - definitely not trying to start a big debate here either as I completely understand the reasons against my idea.

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Sham
www.soulchefs.co.uk