I was not going to post this yet until certain issues were finalised but it makes sense to have a tag to it here at MRT in the meantime.

Ok, thanks to DH (Doublehelix) for his input/idea and here are his amended 'rules'.

Before I go on I would like to state that Ian and the lads at Sos have kindly agreed to offer a prize/s for the winner/s etc. I will keep you informed about this when it is finalised.

I will be one of the judges, along with Paul White, possibly a cursory glance by Hugh and we are waiting for others to jump in.

I will probably extend the timeline on this as we will need to think this through simply because we need time to be able to judge constructively, collate all entries etc.
Ian might even tie this into the mag/e-sub.

Thanks to Ian and the Sos staff for their support.


Here are the rules:


1) These rules are subject to discussion and possible changes up until December 31, 2007. After that date, no further modifications will be made to the rules. Doublehelix will be the final moderator of the rules up until the contest begins, and from that point forward, the appointed judges will act as moderators for any "issues" that crop up.

2) The contest will begin on January 1, 2008, and will be completed on January 31, 2008. A "winner" will be decided by February 15, 2008. Final judges TBD (Zuk, are you in buddy?). Participants can be either individuals or teams.

3) Judging will be based on most creative use of the limited resources available (see list below), and the quality of the recording. No "points" will be given for original interpretation, although this is encouraged. This is not a musical composition competition, but rather a recording techniques competition, and it will be judged as such. A point scale will be determined for several categories, and final points will be tallied by the judges, and a winner determined.

4) There will only be one winner (although a first-place tie will be allowed). EVERYONE ELSE WILL FINISH IN A TIE FOR SECOND!!! A score card with everyone's scores WILL NOT BE MADE AVAILABLE! (This is for fun, remember???) First place, and lots of second places!

5) The Beatles song "Come Together" is the song that is to be recorded. Each contestant has complete free reign on how their final entry will be arranged and compiled. There will not be any points for original arrangement or interpretation however. Technical merit only.

6) 8-track limit, with as much bouncing as necessary. (This is kind-of "cheating", since the Beatles would lose quality in the analog domain for each generation of bounce, but since we are in the digital domain for the most part nowadays, there is no reason to limit these advantages.)

7) All instruments are to be of a similar type and style as were used in the original recording. This is to encourage miking techniques rather than 100% direct inject recordings of synthesizers and keyboards. Direct keyboards may be used, but they may not be more than TWO TRACKS TOTAL (including bounced tracks). Remember, this is a recording/miking contest!!! Some instruments lend themselves to direct injection, such as a bass guitar and keyboards. This is fine, but GUITARS MUST BE MIKED!!! No Pods or virtual guitar emulations. Only miked amps. Here is a list of allowable DI'ed instruments:

-Bass guitar
-Synthesizer (no more than 2 tracks)
-V-Drums (20% point deduction in the rhythm category, see below)

All other instruments MUST BE MIKED!!! This means no DI acoustic guitars or electric guitars. Amplifiers must be miked, and acoustic guitars must be miked not DI'ed.

8) No more than 3 different mics may be used throughout the *entire* process, and no more than 3 at one time. Imagine that you have a mic collection that consists of only 3 mics, and you cannot borrow or rent anything!

9) Programmed drums MAY be used, but there will be a small point deduction for doing so. I am suggesting a 20% point penalty for the drum category (meaning that if you use programmed drums, you are only eligible for a total of 8 points out of a possible 10 for the drum and rhythm category). This evens out the playing field a bit since one of the most difficult parts of this competition is going to be getting a good drum sound out of 3 mics with an 8-track limit. Programmed drums will get an advantage here since the quality will automatically be that of the highest quality that the sample-source can provide. This puts the drum miking guys at a distinct disadvantage, but this is what I had in mind when I came up with the idea... instead of sticking 12-14 mics around a kit like I normally do, limiting myself to 3. This concession however allows folks like Streety, KaYos, markhodges, and Madman_Greg to participate, but does not overly-punish folks that will be miking real percussion. Remember, you *can* use bongos or something else and qualify for the full possible point potential! V-drums count as "programmed" drums since no miking is involved.

REMEMBER, we are not looking for musical talent, but *recording* talent. I just feel that by eliminating programmed or V-Drums, we are keeping some of the good folks around here out of the competition, and that is not cool!

10) No more than one reverb patch, one delay patch, and one chorus patch may be used. These can be set up as "sends" and used on more than one track, but only one patch at a time can be used. EQ and compression may be freely used throughout the process.

11) At least one vocal track *must* be present. Background vocals are optional.

12) A rubric will be created by December 31st with all of the scoring categories, and some guidelines on how each category will be scored. The judges input on the categories and judging criteria will be required.

13) Each contestant will be required to keep an accurate log of each track that was recorded, with the complete signal path (mic/pre/compressor or EQ, etc.). Tracks that are bounced must also be accounted for. Each track log must include the instrument type (and brand?), amp type, and complete signal chain. Inaccurate or incomplete logs will be cause for point loss.

14) Files will be uploaded at 16-bit/44.1 WAV or AIFF files, no MP3s. Mastered tracks are encouraged, but not required.

15) THIS IS FOR FUN!!!

The rules could get amended, or fine tuned, at some point so keep an eye on this thread.

Make sure to email DH all your confirmations of entry please.

Zukan

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

This is really cool Zukan DHelix and !!

Can't wait to get started, (I'm pretty sure that I will score the lowest second place - but that not the point )

I think we might need a little clarification on guitar FX.

I normaly record my electric guitar with the FX chain in place.
Guitar>Chorus>Distortion>Delay>Amp sim>dodgy tranny amp>mic.

Will this be allowed / penalised ?
Thanks

The 8 track limit -I take it that it's 8 mono tracks??

--------------------
[url] http://colinjmorris.bandcamp.com/releases [/url]

Quote Jumpeyspyder:

---

I normaly record my electric guitar with the FX chain in place.
Guitar>Chorus>Distortion>Delay>Amp sim>dodgy tranny amp>mic.

Will this be allowed / penalised ?
Thanks

---

I use a similar setup. I'd also like clarification on this.
Stuart.

--------------------
Birthday Song 4 U. Personalised Birthday Songs

Quote Jumpeyspyder:

---

I think we might need a little clarification on guitar FX.

I normaly record my electric guitar with the FX chain in place.
Guitar>Chorus>Distortion>Delay>Amp sim>dodgy tranny amp>mic.

---

As long as a mic is stuck in front of a speaker to record the guitar, you are good to go!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Quote Tootsweet:

---

The 8 track limit -I take it that it's 8 mono tracks??

---

Yes, as if you had an 8-track tape machine.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Cheers for the comp guys.

Is there a point deduction for not being able to sing?
I might have to get the girlfriend to sing

--------------------
Disclaimer: Advice is taken at your own risk.

do we have to enter ourselves into the competition or just submit the files by the closing date.
Great idea BTW!

--------------------
Dave

Quote:

---

Direct keyboards may be used, but they may not be more than TWO TRACKS TOTAL (including bounced tracks).

---

Very well. But how about miked synths? As in sticking my Ms10 through a twin reverb and sticking a microphone in front of the lot?

Just to be sure.

Quote Andreas Bygdell:

---

Quote:

---

Direct keyboards may be used, but they may not be more than TWO TRACKS TOTAL (including bounced tracks).

---

Very well. But how about miked synths? As in sticking my Ms10 through a twin reverb and sticking a microphone in front of the lot?

Just to be sure.

---

Not a problem, that would not be considered a "direct keyboard".

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Any ideas on the prize?

--------------------
www.stablehousestudios.co.uk

and are we trying to make it sound like the original ?

--------------------
www.stablehousestudios.co.uk

Quote fakiekid:

---

and are we trying to make it sound like the original ?

---

It's a sound recording/engineering contest rather than a cover/sound-a-like contest. You won't be judged on that.

are D.I boxes a part of your 3 mic piece?

and there has only got to be 8 tracks!

this will be fun!

--------------------
www.stablehousestudios.co.uk

Quote fakiekid:

---

are D.I boxes a part of your 3 mic piece?

---

I am not exactly sure what you are asking here...

You can use 3 mics, and if you need to also use a DI box, you can do that too, but be sure to see the limit requirement on the number of channels that can be DI'ed.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

OK,

how are you making sure people are only going to use 8 tracks?

--------------------
www.stablehousestudios.co.uk

Quote fakiekid:

---

OK,

how are you making sure people are only going to use 8 tracks?

---

Tough one! Everyone is to submit a log along with their mix (see more details in the first post), and we just have to trust that people are being honest. I think the judges will have to listen closely for obvious signs of cheating, especially when they are comparing the log with what they hear in the mix.

It is the best we can do I think! The only other thing would be to send in the 8 original tracks along with the mixdown, but that is going to take up too much bandwidth and take too much effort, and is just not worth it!

This is supposed to be for fun, so we just have to trust everyone!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Quote Doublehelix:

---

This is supposed to be for fun, so we just have to trust everyone!

---

Agreed. If you cheat you'll only be cheating yourself.

--------------------
Birthday Song 4 U. Personalised Birthday Songs

Wicked!

I can't wait!

Got drums set up as I type !

--------------------
www.stablehousestudios.co.uk

Great idea (and great song) but how are you going to allow for the fact that people will have a great variety of quality of gear and mics, plus the fact that some of us with home studios dont have the space (or neigbours) to allow using real kits and miced guitar amps?

Quote SunShineState:

---

Great idea (and great song) but how are you going to allow for the fact that people will have a great variety of quality of gear and mics, plus the fact that some of us with home studios dont have the space (or neigbours) to allow using real kits and miced guitar amps?

---

I have an even more basic problem, I do not own a guitar amp at the moment. I use a Mesa Boogie v-twin pre amp. But I can mic my acoustic..

--------------------
Madman_Greg

I actually still have my 8 track analog operational so that might be fun to get back to for this recording.

I have a question on the drums - currently I cannot get a drummer and I can't play well enough, so if I were to sample a kit I miked and were to use that sample from say NI Battery will that fall under the point penalty?

Would percussion instead of full drum track work for this?

--------------------
www.descentintomadness.com

Quote 4TrackMadman:

---

I have a question on the drums - currently I cannot get a drummer and I can't play well enough, so if I were to sample a kit I miked and were to use that sample from say NI Battery will that fall under the point penalty?

---

Yes, samples are samples. We are going for miking techniques and the use of minimal resources. Even though you sampled them, they are still "samples".

Quote 4TrackMadman:

---

Would percussion instead of full drum track work for this?

---

Absolutely! Get creative!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Ooooohh, this sounds like fun - I am but noob, can I play?

Is there any limit on the number of performers? i.e., would it be okay to have a DI'd guitar played by someone else that I later remove and replace with a mic-d one so I can have all three mics on the drum kit while laying down a rhythm track?

Or am I just needlessly overcomplicating things?

Quote smokingbeagle:

---

Or am I just needlessly overcomplicating things?

---

Yep! This is for fun... Don't worry about it too much, you will be fine!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

50% done!

i really cannot wait to hear what everyone has done with the song!

--------------------
www.stablehousestudios.co.uk

what?! you've started?

--------------------
I'm a student. Don't listen...

Edited by Streety (22/12/07 05:49 PM)

mate im nearly done! one more instrument to add, track number 8! woop!!

how are we 'submitting' the work?

--------------------
www.stablehousestudios.co.uk

Edited by fakiekid (22/12/07 11:40 PM)

So are we gonna have a consolidated rule list by tomorrow? It'd be nice not to have to pick and choose rules from a list of posts!



--------------------
[url] http://colinjmorris.bandcamp.com/releases [/url]

Quote Tootsweet:

---

So are we gonna have a consolidated rule list by tomorrow? It'd be nice not to have to pick and choose rules from a list of posts!

---

Actually, I don't think anything has changed from the original rules list posting, just a few clarifications. I can go back through this thread and make sure, and will make sure to post an upgrade if necessary.

I am worried now that I will have a place to record anything before the deadline! I am *still* trying to finish the construction on my place, and the clock is a-ticking! Ouch!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

OK, here is an updated version of the rules. The changes I have made since the last posting are in bold.

We still need to finalize the list of participants, and work on the upload site. I will see what I can get organized here in the next day or so.

ZUKAN: Any update from your end on the judges/prizes/time frame???


RULES:



1) These rules are subject to discussion and possible changes up until December 31, 2007. After that date, no further modifications will
be made to the rules. Doublehelix will be the final moderator of the rules up until the contest begins, and from that point forward, the
appointed judges will act as moderators for any "issues" that crop up.

2) The contest will begin on January 1, 2008, and will be completed on January 31, 2008. A "winner" will be decided by February 15,
2008. Final judges TBD (Zuk, are you in buddy?). Participants can be either individuals or teams.

3) Judging will be based on most creative use of the limited resources available (see list below), and the quality of the recording. No
"points" will be given for original interpretation, although this is encouraged. This is not a musical composition competition, but
rather a recording techniques competition, and it will be judged as such. A point scale will be determined for several categories, and
final points will be tallied by the judges, and a winner determined.

4) There will only be one winner (although a first-place tie will be allowed). EVERYONE ELSE WILL FINISH IN A TIE FOR SECOND!!! A score
card with everyone's scores WILL NOT BE MADE AVAILABLE! (This is for fun, remember???) First place, and lots of second places!

5) The Beatles song "Come Together" is the song that is to be recorded. Each contestant has complete free reign on how their final entry
will be arranged and compiled. There will not be any points for original arrangement or interpretation however. Technical merit only.

6) 8-track limit (8 mono tracks), with as much bouncing as necessary. (This is kind-of "cheating", since the Beatles would lose
quality in the analog domain for each generation of bounce, but since we are in the digital domain for the most part nowadays, there is
no reason to limit these advantages.)

7) All instruments are to be of a similar type and style as were used in the original recording. This is to encourage miking techniques
rather than 100% direct inject recordings of synthesizers and keyboards. Direct keyboards may be used, but they may not be more than TWO
TRACKS TOTAL (including bounced tracks). Remember, this is a recording/miking contest!!! Some instruments lend themselves to direct
injection, such as a bass guitar and keyboards. This is fine, but GUITARS MUST BE MIKED!!! No Pods or virtual guitar emulations. Only
miked amps. Here is a list of allowable DI'ed instruments:

-Bass guitar
-Synthesizer (no more than 2 tracks)
-V-Drums (20% point deduction in the rhythm category, see below)

All other instruments MUST BE MIKED!!! This means no DI acoustic guitars or electric guitars. Amplifiers must be miked, and acoustic
guitars must be miked not DI'ed.

Guitars can be run through any type of amp sim, etc., as long as the signal is then run through an amp/speaker combination, and then
miked.

8) No more than 3 different mics may be used throughout the *entire* process, and no more than 3 at one time. Imagine that you have a
mic collection that consists of only 3 mics, and you cannot borrow or rent anything! Recording a direct "scratch" or "guide" track
along with other "real" tracks is ok as long as that track is later replaced by a real miked track.

9) Programmed drums MAY be used, but there will be a small point deduction for doing so. I am suggesting a 20% point penalty for the
drum category (meaning that if you use programmed drums, you are only eligible for a total of 8 points out of a possible 10 for the drum
and rhythm category). This evens out the playing field a bit since one of the most difficult parts of this competition is going to be
getting a good drum sound out of 3 mics with an 8-track limit. Programmed drums will get an advantage here since the quality will
automatically be that of the highest quality that the sample-source can provide. This puts the drum miking guys at a distinct
disadvantage, but this is what I had in mind when I came up with the idea... instead of sticking 12-14 mics around a kit like I normally
do, limiting myself to 3. This concession however allows folks like Streety, KaYos, markhodges, and Madman_Greg to participate, but does
not overly-punish folks that will be miking real percussion. Remember, you *can* use bongos or something else and qualify for the full
possible point potential! V-drums count as "programmed" drums since no miking is involved.

If you use sampled drums, even if you originally recorded the samples, you are subject to the point deduction. "Samples are samples".
This includes SAMPLE REPLACEMENT techniques such as Drumagog or other similar programs.I am personally a big fan of sample replacement,
but I cannot use it for this project.

REMEMBER, we are not looking for musical talent, but *recording* talent. I just feel that by eliminating programmed or V-Drums, we are
keeping some of the good folks around here out of the competition, and that is not cool! Therefore, rather than prohibitting their
use, we are just penalizing their use to even the playing field a little bit.

If drums are not available, any form of percussion is allowed without penalty as long as the percussion is miked and no more than 3
mics are used.

10) No more than one reverb patch, one delay patch, and one chorus patch may be used. These can be set up as "sends" and used on more
than one track, but only one patch at a time can be used. EQ and compression may be freely used throughout the process.

11) At least one vocal track *must* be present. Background vocals are optional.

12) A rubric will be created by December 31st with all of the scoring categories, and some guidelines on how each category will be
scored. The judges input on the categories and judging criteria will be required.

13) Each contestant will be required to keep an accurate log of each track that was recorded, with the complete signal path
(mic/pre/compressor or EQ, etc.). Tracks that are bounced must also be accounted for. Each track log must include the instrument type
(and brand?), amp type, and complete signal chain. Inaccurate or incomplete logs will be cause for point loss.

14) Files will be uploaded at 16-bit/44.1 WAV or AIFF files, no MP3s. Mastered tracks are encouraged, but not required.

15) THIS IS FOR FUN!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Cool. Thanks.

--------------------
[url] http://colinjmorris.bandcamp.com/releases [/url]

Well I'm 75% of the way. Make sure my names down!

--------------------
www.stablehousestudios.co.uk

Quote fakiekid:

---

Well I'm 75% of the way. Make sure my names down!

---

No problem, please send me your email address through a PM or an email.

Thanks1

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

can I please ask for some clarification

my normal setup is electric guitar into a mesa boogie pre amp direct into the sound card

provided I take the output of this out of studio monitors then mic the speakers and record, I think I am compliant with the rules and regs

Is that correct

Thanks

--------------------
Madman_Greg

Quote Madman_Greg:

---

can I please ask for some clarification

my normal setup is electric guitar into a mesa boogie pre amp direct into the sound card

provided I take the output of this out of studio monitors then mic the speakers and record, I think I am compliant with the rules and regs

Is that correct

Thanks

---

Go for it!!! Sounds great to me!!!

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Quote Doublehelix:

---

13) Each contestant will be required to keep an accurate log of each track that was recorded, with the complete signal path
(mic/pre/compressor or EQ, etc.).

---

How much info is required here? Are we talking EQ settings, Comp ratio, attack & release times, reverb & delay settings, etc? Or do you just want the signal path?

--------------------
Birthday Song 4 U. Personalised Birthday Songs

Quote stuart churchill:

---

Quote Doublehelix:

---

13) Each contestant will be required to keep an accurate log of each track that was recorded, with the complete signal path
(mic/pre/compressor or EQ, etc.).

---

How much info is required here? Are we talking EQ settings, Comp ratio, attack & release times, reverb & delay settings, etc? Or do you just want the signal path?

---

Signal path is *more* than enough! It is a way to keep track of who is doing what. The winner might want to provide more details of specific settings, but certainly nothing more than the signal patch is required.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Q. Where are we to upload the finished entry? I guess the finished WAV files will be 30-40Mb each. Also can we upload a Word doc with the recording log etc?

Many thx SSS

Quote SunShineState:

---

Q. Where are we to upload the finished entry? I guess the finished WAV files will be 30-40Mb each. Also can we upload a Word doc with the recording log etc?

Many thx SSS

---

Good idea about setting a format for the log file. Let me work on this a bit more, and I will post a specific set of instructions.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~