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Nathan



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Lodious]
      #612906 - 07/05/08 09:30 AM
Sun?!

ugh, he's one of those there day-time people. surely the light from all those little LEDs and monitor screens is enough..?



--------------------
planet nine
lincoln, uk.


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jrbcm



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #612908 - 07/05/08 09:37 AM


...yeah, that guy'll never get a proper studio tan with that attitude. I bet his mates don't even call him Gollum or anyfing innit?


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comradec
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Boston Green]
      #612909 - 07/05/08 09:38 AM
Quote Boston Green:

Jeeeze, is this thread still rumbling on ?

Come on move along people, the suns out and theres a whole world out there ......




We live in a complex ecosphere and the weather is not sunny in every part of it.

--------------------
Steve Cooke
http://soundcloud.com/stevecooke


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Richard Graham



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #612993 - 07/05/08 12:43 PM
My 2p worth. I've bought big items from Sound Control (Newcastle branch) twice in the last couple of years, and also got a quote for a custom e-drum kit I didn't end up buying, maybe three years ago.

I got a different member of staff every time, and they were all good, and very helpful. It helped that I had a good idea what I was after, and they gave me an excellent price without me trying to get them to undercut themselves or anyone else. One time, they had the item in stock (Zoom H4, just after it was released), and the last time (Alesis iO26, a few weeks ago) it was ordered in for me from another branch, promptly, and the lads from SC even helped me carry my stuff, to the car which was parked in a multi-story nearby.

I have not had such good experiences from other music stores, SC was the best in the area, although I did wonder why the manager there bit my head off the other week, when I tried cracking on with him and his staff.

Now I know. Sad.

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


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Simon2008
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #613050 - 07/05/08 02:29 PM
I think more retailers will follow unless they drop their prices and cut costs, they charge way too much over here causing more and more people to buy form the US

Aurelex acoustic system in the US from Sweetwater $99
Same thing at KMR Audio £295

Rippoff Britain!

cheaper drugs now, cheaper drugs now


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John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Simon2008]
      #613074 - 07/05/08 03:19 PM
Quote Simon2008:

I think more retailers will follow unless they drop their prices and cut costs, they charge way too much over here causing more and more people to buy form the US

Aurelex acoustic system in the US from Sweetwater $99
Same thing at KMR Audio £295

Rippoff Britain!






This is silly.

Most of the time it's out of the hands of the retailer and UK retailers tend to work on lowish margins (hence the collapse of a certain retailer).

The Dollar is very weak which helps buying stuff from the States, especially if it is of US manufacture.

The business taxes in the UK are much more than the USA, and some equipment is made to different specs. For instance, the US has much lower requirements for radiomics, which means that US versions can be made much cheaper.

Actually, the prices are more likely to *rise* in the UK due to the extremely strong €uro.

--------------------
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President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


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thomomatic



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Simon2008]
      #613082 - 07/05/08 03:41 PM
Quote Simon2008:


Rippoff Britain!

cheaper drugs now, cheaper drugs now





actually the drugs are quiet cheap these days!
and yeah britain is rippoff, but the equipment music equipment specifically is not that expensive for what it is.

--------------------
www.coorecords.com
www.last.fm/music/cloudcub


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Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Simon2008]
      #613115 - 07/05/08 04:51 PM
Quote Simon2008:


Aurelex acoustic system in the US from Sweetwater $99
Same thing at KMR Audio £295






1) not the same pack i think.


2) Even if it is... auralex stuff is made in the states.... and has to be shipped here.... which is expensive because although it's not heavy, it takes up masses of space, so costs more to ship, per ton, than almost anything else we use in this industry.,...

then there's Import duty,
the UK distributor and their costs.... and profit margins.... and taxes,
then it finally gets to the retailer.... and they also have to make a profit, and pay tax....



i'm not saying prices in the Uk are always at their best.... I'm just pointing out the utter fantasy world people are in when thinking they'll be even remotely similar in price to the US for a US made product.,...


just be glad you're not an American wanting to buy UK /european manufactured products..... the weak dollar is killing them....

--------------------
if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.


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Booster



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Posts: 294
Loc: London
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: John Willett]
      #613116 - 07/05/08 04:52 PM
Quote John Willett:



This is silly.

Most of the time it's out of the hands of the retailer and UK retailers tend to work on lowish margins (hence the collapse of a certain retailer).






Actually the only reason S/C collapsed was because the management were a pack of clueless, greedy, inept monkeys. I know. They had so much opportunity and blew it. In fact if they weren't so stupid I would have thought they did it on purpose.


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Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Studio Support Gnome]
      #613126 - 07/05/08 05:10 PM
BTW, I'm not remotely suggesting Auralex stuff is competitively priced in the UK either........ just making the point that it could not remotely be the same price as the US

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.


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Tomadvent
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #613154 - 07/05/08 06:18 PM
Reading and writing this in a balmy sunny garden - the wonders of wifi - seems I am not alone - are you still with us Boston Green?

Wonder if former SC staff have seen that MIA is offering to act as a clearing house for new posts with member companies - which is one a number of positive responses which are emerging.

The government arts department is also looking into replacement funding were a school or community group are experiencing unfulfilled orders with the SC group.


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Boston Green



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #613221 - 07/05/08 08:44 PM
Oh what a lovely afternoon that was ....

--------------------
www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.


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--
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6085
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Studio Support Gnome]
      #613226 - 07/05/08 08:59 PM
Quote Max!:

BTW, I'm not remotely suggesting Auralex stuff is competitively priced in the UK either........




They have to put the price up to subsidise all the stuff they give away to SOS studio rescue!


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Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: --]
      #613229 - 07/05/08 09:26 PM
Auralex have just changed distributor.... so that may no longer be the case.......

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.


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Forum AdminAdministrator



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Tomadvent]
      #613464 - 08/05/08 03:19 PM
Quote Tomadvent:


I wonder whether this lack of awareness of real world specialist retail is the root problem for some of MI retail - I would say almost the reverse compared with many specialist shops. If I had got the kind of knowledge and advice that I get from my local garden centre, jewellers, and real butchers from SC and Turnkey (SC-era) then I would have been a very happy customer.




Tom, a Butchers???? Come off it. How on earth can you compare music retail stores to specialist knowledge a butcher dishes out to customers? Yes, they know their rib-eye from their tongue and can probably tell you how best to slaughter an animal, but the detail they're offering you the customer is nothing compared to info a decent retail salesperson might give in order to make a daily sale and I can't even conceive of what in-depth questions a shopper might consider asking their butcher before agreeing to part with the readies for a kilo of mincemeat.

Chalk and Cheese.

Ian G

--------------------
SOS Gear Videos now screening on Sound On Sound TV


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The Red Bladder



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #613488 - 08/05/08 04:32 PM
The one aspect of this affair that has not come under discussion here, is the idiotic role still being played by UK wholesalers, who continue to behave as if retail were dominated by the MI High Street store.

The UK customer is usually paying THREE sets of mark-up. Firstly, the manufacturer's mark-up, then comes the wholesaler and then lastly the poor old retailer, who in theory gets 40%, but that is (or rather, has become nowadays!) net-to-gross, so VAT comes off that, so it's 22.5% and even that is now squeezed by imports and cheaper eBay stuff, so he's forced to try and make it with 10% or even less.

Wholesalers are not working with 10%, but a shed-load more! The amount depends on the product, but it really is galling fore the UK retailer to see a UK built product for sale in the US or German retail outlet at LESS than his wholesale price.

I payed 98€ for a multicore from Music Store in Cologne that was listed by the UK wholesaler (who was also the manufacturer) at £125 and retail was set at £198 gross. This was a multicore made here in the UK. It came from Germany with the name of the UK manufacturer on it and even still had the wholesaler's dockets in the box.

That was just the most extreme example of late. I could go through product after product.

Yes, SC management seems to have been greedy, lazy and plainly rather foolish, well, all right, stupid, but now the whole industry has wake up to the fact that what in the past was known politely as 'differential pricing' (aka rip-off Britain) is dead.

By squeezing the retailer, they only serve to reduce the size of the retail market.


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Tomadvent
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #613496 - 08/05/08 04:59 PM
Quote Forum Admin:

Quote Tomadvent:


I wonder whether this lack of awareness of real world specialist retail is the root problem for some of MI retail - I would say almost the reverse compared with many specialist shops. If I had got the kind of knowledge and advice that I get from my local garden centre, jewellers, and real butchers from SC and Turnkey (SC-era) then I would have been a very happy customer.




Tom, a Butchers???? Come off it. How on earth can you compare music retail stores to specialist knowledge a butcher dishes out to customers? Yes, they know their rib-eye from their tongue and can probably tell you how best to slaughter an animal, but the detail they're offering you the customer is nothing compared to info a decent retail salesperson might give in order to make a daily sale and I can't even conceive of what in-depth questions a shopper might consider asking their butcher before agreeing to part with the readies for a kilo of mincemeat.

Chalk and Cheese.

Ian G




Depends what you want from your butcher or your music shop - I think I was arguing from internal coherence. Certainly compared with some of the accounts given about starting working in a SC era Turnkey (virtually no training) then a skilled butcher is in a different league and an apprentice would work for many months before being able to advise to customers. Your comment just shows how little you know about a proper butchers - my use of the phrase was deliberate. I was not talking about your local supermarket slab filler or packer. My butcher could tell me where the product come from, what cuts were best for particular situations, what stock he has available, most importantly when orders will be available. The level of care needed is also in a different league - one lot of dodgy mincemeat could poison a whole community. I sense that if latterly SC had offered me these basic requirements they would have sold me a great deal more. Is the analogy perhaps understood by suggesting that because someone is a meat-loving cook it does not make them a good butcher - similarly because someone is a gear mad musician doesn't make them a good retailer or assistant.
I was simply making the point that these kind of retailers were highly skilled and knowledgeable - and that MI is not in particularly strong position in the retail world to be shouting the odds.


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Forum AdminAdministrator



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Tomadvent]
      #613547 - 08/05/08 07:59 PM
Quote:


My butcher could tell me where the product come from, what cuts were best for particular situations, what stock he has available, most importantly when orders will be available.





Yes, but the salesman/butcher does not have his cows upgraded every six months, and a new breed of pig doesn't come onto the market quite as fast as new computer processor chips, and I'll wager when it does that the butcher is given plenty of prior knowledge through his trade journals of the results of interbreeding experiments... sorry to be slightly facetious here, but I know how hard it us for editorial staff and management here at SOS to keep our current product knowledge up to date given the onslaught of new gear and software and OS updates that offer another zillion functions that most users will rarely need or use. But the music tech/MI punter walking through the shop door or phoning up to enquire about a new product he's just read about in our mag generally does expect the salesperson to be fully conversant with all the new and old gear.

As you heard from RobinV earlier, he is not alone in staying back after closing time to try out products and familiarise himself with new gear releases, quality of sounds, functionality and features lists... it's a non-stop battle I'd imagine.

So I do feel for the SC staffers - yes, the blame probably ultimately should fall on the management, but I suspect SC got caught up in the dotcom-style expectation that expansion was always a "good thing" -- and bankers, let's face it, do want to hear that you are not prepared to sit pretty and stabilise your business; from my experience it's all too easy to fall into the trap of focusing on expanding your business when opportunities arise and bank managers are your best friends when all's hunky-dory but usually have no choice but to tow the head-office party line when banks tighten their belts and suddenly reel in previosuly extended "facilities" -- back in the 1980s/early 90s, I had a few friends whose business overdrafts were cut down by 50% with only 7 days notice! If you have become reliant on your overdraft, most businesses cannot survive such drastic measures by the bank and tend to have to shed staff and sell off assets overnight to get through it, or go bust.

The potential losses we're hearing that businesses (SOS included) in the music industry and related sectors have incurred from SC going into administration are only the tip of the sales iceberg. The figures add up to some mighty sums - but the graver concern is the loss of ongoing planned/forecast business that the companies who dealt with SC expected to be doing in the coming 12 months.

Potentially, a goodly amount of that revenue is wiped out, or deferred/delayed, though we'd all like to think that customers who would have bought from SC might -- just might -- take their money to another UK retailer, who will therefore sell more and need more stock than they would typically have purchased from the UK distributor had SC not closed some of its stores. But if a significant amount of that forecast business goes offshore, as some of it undoubtedly will, that doesn't usually help the UK distributor. UK manufacturers, yes, possibly...

Guess it'll all come out in the wash.

--------------------
SOS Gear Videos now screening on Sound On Sound TV


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Tomadvent
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #613641 - 09/05/08 12:15 AM
I don't want to press the butcher analogy - I was simply making the point that it was rather inward looking to suggest that the MI retail was unique or particularly good (as was suggested in the initiating post to which I responded).

Incidentally my butcher says that if guitars were shown on TV most nights by famous guitarists and then musicians turned up in the shop the next day demanding that particular model, then there would knowledge and stock issues similar to what butchers face with celebrity chefs!Predicting demand is it seems the major butchers headache in order to ensure availability and avoid waste - and most farmers won't lend them the stock unlike Fender or Roland.

I didn't really find that its product knowledge in the sense of this model or that model which let SC down - in fact the two Leeds shops were pretty excellent at that - with the exception of the specialist stock which they probably shouldn't have been trying to sell on a shop floor anyway - eg Carillon computers.

The problems were more fundamental - poor stock control - uncertain ordering - missed deliveries - and strange central control regulations which meant that they missed out.

My most recent SC personal purchase is indicative of my experience over the last 18 months or two years

I was after two cheap Squiers for tuition use
Check that SC had them in stock and the price
Arrived at the shop and found the price was lower than quoted on phone (good for me but poor advice)
Asked whether they had been checked in the shop (Yes - and if not then might as well buy from internet)
Asked to play them - then assistant suddenly admitted one had a fault
Asked what the fault was - told that one pick-up wasn't working
Asked could it be repaired - told "no" its company policy and might be too expensive and it had to be returned to HQ
Checked guitar - realised fault was with switch rather than pickup which was working on two settings
Haggled price down to 1/2 quoted price
Got home - lifted cover - fixed fault in 5 minutes.

Four or five years earlier with the SC staff I knew none of it would have happened - they would have been clear about price - they wouldn't have a faulty guitar on display - they wouldn't have tried to sell me a dodgy number - they would have been able to undertake a simple repair locally - they would have sold both guitars at a much higher price to a more satisfied and confident customer.

As it was in 2007 I was happy on one level with deal - but lots of questions about SC? Would I recommend them to my clients as a basis for a good long-term service - no.

Is that the local individual staff's problem - no probably not.Would my local butcher do any of this kind of thing? No

If any of the shop arise from the ashes - and lets hope they do - then it is these basic quality issues which need to be addressed. You can get all the technical information you need off the internet.

Would suggest that these are some of the retail lessons that can be learnt.


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Tomadvent
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #613642 - 09/05/08 12:21 AM
Sorry Ian meant to say that I sincerely hope that SOS survives the SC and TK problems - it really is an outstanding magazine in any market which is well ahead of the other publications which I read across a spectrum of interests - and one which I recommend to my clients with great confidence. In fact without SOS I suspect TK would not have lasted as long as it did.


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Booster



Joined: 16/09/04
Posts: 294
Loc: London
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Tomadvent]
      #613742 - 09/05/08 11:01 AM
That kind of experience happens in every shop. It isn't restricted to SC. Sometimes people get crappy service at say DV, then go to SC and get great service and then will bang on about how great SC are and how craps DV are. And vice versa. On it goes... Sales guys in MI shops have to be far more knowledgeable than most other types of shop. Just by the sheer complicated nature of the stock on sale. Go to Currys and see how much in depth advice you get. 'yes...I-pod...good...music plays out this bit...me make comission!

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I don't want a signature...


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Rabid47



Joined: 05/04/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Exiled in East Kent, UK
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Imran500]
      #613925 - 09/05/08 09:00 PM
Quote Imran500:

A bit sad but I had mixed experiences with them. One time they advertised a piece of software, took money from me and then failed to inform me it was discontinued.

I'd say overall due to their bad service they've probably lost about £500 of my business over the years - not a massively efficient operation in my experience.




I bought a Yamaha keyboard from Turnkey. When I got it home (120 miles away), I found it contained no power supply, even tho' the product was advertised as power-supply supplied. I rang Yamaha who assured me that ALL units supplied to Turnkey contained PS's. I rang Turnkey who informed me that no PS was supplied and offered to sell me one for £28.00. When I offered to contact Yamaha on their behalf and complain about the missing PS's they seemed to have a change of heart and offered to send me one free, they would even pay the postage. It's no suprise to me that they've gone into administration; if they're going to con you for a power supply, what else do they feel they can get away with?

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Rab


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Tomadvent
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Booster]
      #614037 - 10/05/08 01:05 PM
Quote Booster:

That kind of experience happens in every shop. It isn't restricted to SC. Sometimes people get crappy service at say DV, then go to SC and get great service and then will bang on about how great SC are and how craps DV are. And vice versa. On it goes... Sales guys in MI shops have to be far more knowledgeable than most other types of shop. Just by the sheer complicated nature of the stock on sale. Go to Currys and see how much in depth advice you get. 'yes...I-pod...good...music plays out this bit...me make comission!




Actually what you suggest is precisely what I have not been doing - what I have been describing is a decline in service within the SC Group over the last few years which has meant that eventually I started using other suppliers having on several ocassions discussed the problems with the management team of the respective store - and I am recording experience across 10 shops in the chain through the experience of my clients.

Given the volume of work which is involved I recognise that there will be problems on individual sales - the question is not whether there is problem or poor individual staff advice, but how the retailer/company then responds.

As I made clear in the post I did rather well from the last purchase so I was not dissatisfied in that sense - I only moved on at the stage when I judged that they could not overcome the problems and that my clients could not expect good service systemically.

As regards MI industry I don't think SC would be too happy with your Curry's comparison - the proper comparison is with specialist shops - and as I have described their knowledge is not intrinsically greater than other specialist shops - even if it was then if you do not get the basics right then that undermines the specialist knowledge. The failure to get the basics right was SC downfall as management lost control of the growing empire, but would not allow local managers the authority to sort the problems.


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Dameo



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #614083 - 10/05/08 04:07 PM
they kept buying up all the other music shops in sheffield (academy of sound) and other places like turnkey - no wonder they've messed up- run too fast and you'll fall.

R.i.p - i new something was going wrong when the main sound control branch in the center closed a bit back

--------------------
A gentleman is a man who can play "jump" on keyboards, but chooses not to


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Bunderson



Joined: 30/01/08
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #614140 - 10/05/08 09:22 PM
bad, bad news.


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Bunderson



Joined: 30/01/08
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Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Dameo]
      #614141 - 10/05/08 09:23 PM
Quote Dameo:

they kept buying up all the other music shops in sheffield (academy of sound) and other places like turnkey - no wonder they've messed up- run too fast and you'll fall.

R.i.p - i new something was going wrong when the main sound control branch in the center closed a bit back




Was this the one near the showroom? I traipsed all the way down there and it was gone. When did this happen? Nowhere else in Sheffield to buy musical goods form now.


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Watty
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Tomadvent]
      #614321 - 11/05/08 03:59 PM
Quote Tomadvent:

The failure to get the basics right was SC downfall as management lost control of the growing empire, but would not allow local managers the authority to sort the problems.




In your opinion. In reality, it was trophy-collecting of failing businesses, ill advised opening of spectacularly expensive stores and competition from e-tailers which killed SC.

Your experiences, while unfortunate, were not typical. In the 6 months I worked at head office, I took one call from a disgruntled customer (of the London store) and I heard of maybe 3 other customer issues in that time. That's pretty good going considering the thousands of transactions done in half a year.


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Ian Stewart



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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #614863 - 13/05/08 07:10 AM
I don't know if it has already been mentioned in this long thread but I walked passed Turnkey yesterday and I noticed two items saying "buy now and and don't pay anything to 2009". Does this mean they have now been bought?

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No longer a forum member.


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Jez (mahoobley)
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Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #614979 - 13/05/08 12:12 PM
No, they do credit arrangements through a third party. Turnkey may dissapear completely before then, but the bank that supplies the credit will keep going and still be wanting it's money back from you.

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http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk


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Collie



Joined: 02/02/08
Posts: 43
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ian Stewart]
      #615074 - 13/05/08 02:58 PM
They have always done a Buy now pay in 12 months credit agreements through Barclays,I bought some equipment last year on that BNPL scheme.

They aren't allowed to do it now since the Administration,I went into the local branch to get a soundcard last week and some guy was on the Phone to a customer and I heard him say they were unable to do offer the BNPL credit facilities just Cash or Credit card transactions,yet they had a buy now pay 2009 placard on the till,so it probably just an old advertisment.


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Jez (mahoobley)
monkey


Joined: 21/03/03
Posts: 2212
Loc: East Midlands
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #615081 - 13/05/08 03:20 PM
I guess they can't remove the sign because it is the property of the bank

--------------------
http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk


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John Willett
Sound-Link ProAudio


Joined: 07/03/00
Posts: 12167
Loc: Oxfordshire UK
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #615088 - 13/05/08 03:30 PM
Quote Mahoobley:

I guess they can't remove the sign because it is the property of the bank






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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons


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Tomadvent
member


Joined: 19/04/02
Posts: 164
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Watty]
      #615169 - 13/05/08 06:57 PM
Quote Watty:

Quote Tomadvent:

The failure to get the basics right was SC downfall as management lost control of the growing empire, but would not allow local managers the authority to sort the problems.




In your opinion. In reality, it was trophy-collecting of failing businesses, ill advised opening of spectacularly expensive stores and competition from e-tailers which killed SC.

Your experiences, while unfortunate, were not typical. In the 6 months I worked at head office, I took one call from a disgruntled customer (of the London store) and I heard of maybe 3 other customer issues in that time. That's pretty good going considering the thousands of transactions done in half a year.




Are you seriously suggesting that with a company the size of SC the fact there were only 4 complaints should be regarded as good - plainly it never occur to you that it simply meant that you were utterly out of touch with what was happening at shop level. Plainly the loss of control was greater than I had ever imagined!


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Hodgheg
new member


Joined: 02/01/02
Posts: 2
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #615181 - 13/05/08 07:27 PM
Someone in Manchester is either very clued up or very, very jammy: a few months ago a new music shop opened just a stone's throw away from Sound Control's now defunct Oxford Road Manchester store.


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SunShineState



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 1035
Loc: London
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Hodgheg]
      #615222 - 13/05/08 08:54 PM
The truth is "music" gear sales is pretty much low margin box shifting with price cutting being the differentiator - I met the MD of Digital Village and threats from internet companies and Thoman etc seem to be hurting the business.

We all want a cheap deal but ultimately we may be partly responsible if local shops go out of business.

Having said that I do think turnkey weren't the best company to deal with - its a difficult balance to get right I guess, but certainly I would rather pay a bit more to have a reasonably local place where you can see and touch gear rather than have it all go internet shopping based


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hogberto
new member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 430
Loc: scotland
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Ben]
      #615231 - 13/05/08 09:36 PM
looks like there might be news fairly soon about the future of the shops:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7398627.stm


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MitchT



Joined: 12/11/04
Posts: 130
Loc: Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: SunShineState]
      #615413 - 14/05/08 12:02 PM
Quote SunShineState:


We all want a cheap deal but ultimately we may be partly responsible if local shops go out of business.




It's a catch-22 situation. I have experienced the cost of food, gas, electricity, petrol, water rates and council tax going through the roof year-on-year while my employer has recently told me that it can offshore a big chunk of the work I do, so all the overtime has stopped, effectively cutting my income by a third. With less money coming in and more than ever going out on unavoidable 'living', correction, 'surviving' costs, I have to seek bigger and bigger discounts on non-essentials or simply not buy them.

Maybe if the government didn't use such a flawed measure of inflation this type of thing might have been avoided. An accurate headline inflation figure would have revealed creeping inflation many years ago and interest rates could have been edged up a bit to strengthen the pound and nip the inflation in the bud... all at a time when house prices were sufficiently low that borrowers could have withstood the odd rate rise here and there. But now, with everyone mortgage up to the eyeballs, the sort of rate rises that would be needed to bring strength back to the pound and diminish unavoidable outgoings to a sensible percentage one one's income, such that we could afford to support local businesses who maybe charge a bit more than internet suppliers, would cripple borrowers and create something of a catastrophe. Of course, an absence of such rate rises will ultimately lead to inflation in real and unavoidable living costs having the same effect.

--------------------
www.mitchthompson.co.uk


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Booster



Joined: 16/09/04
Posts: 294
Loc: London
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Tomadvent]
      #615523 - 14/05/08 03:12 PM
SC operated on an overdraft from the bank. They did this for years. They over extended themselves with the Turnkey purchase and were in talks to sell it and other things off. They had laid off Directors and cut back costs. The bank pulled in the loan before they could finalise anything and that is why they went into administration. That is the only reason. There was no measured decline in support or customer service. Yes local managers couldn't always action what they thought was best for the company. This happens in other chains too. But this is not why the chain went under. Turnkey probably has the worst reputation in terms of customer service, (check the forums) and time and time again people come back to buy there. Bad service doesn't always mean you lose business, as long as you offer good terms and low prices. Even if there was a drop off in business due to bad customer service (or product knowledge et al), it is certainly in no measurable way responsible for the collapse.

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I don't want a signature...


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Watty
new member


Joined: 23/06/02
Posts: 14
Loc: Tayside, Scotland
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Tomadvent]
      #615615 - 14/05/08 07:20 PM
Quote Tomadvent:

Are you seriously suggesting that with a company the size of SC the fact there were only 4 complaints should be regarded as good - plainly it never occur to you that it simply meant that you were utterly out of touch with what was happening at shop level. Plainly the loss of control was greater than I had ever imagined!




Four complaints escalated to head office level is actually very good going for a company which would've turned over in the region of £25 million pounds in that time. If only 4 complaints came through to us then that suggests that the managers were capable of sorting out issues at store level.

Plenty of informed posters on this thread have explained what SC's actual problems were but these explanations seem lost on you with your bitter anti-SC agenda.


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* User requested
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Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: Sound Control + Turnkey go into administration... new [Re: Watty]
      #615623 - 14/05/08 08:01 PM
Like a moth to a flame....


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