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Steve Hill
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: A Non O Miss]
      #639208 - 21/07/08 06:27 AM
Quote A Non O' Miss:

The bad thing is people who want it pushed far too much where it becomes noticeable to the average listener. If used properly you can limit it to a respectable comparable level to most commercial music and still have it sound really good.




That's true... and to be clear I at least am not objecting to limiting at the mastering stage. People have been doing that for half a century. I object to (ab)using limiting to clip the entire mix.

Quote A Non O' Miss:

Find the positive, if the trend goes the other way think of all the material that will need to be remastered and remixed.




... and I object to the "remasters" of (many, not all) old classic albums being treated in the same way! There's an entire generation of people who have probably only listed to these versions of (say) Hotel California by the Eagles, as remastered for CD, then turned into mp3 for the download market, who simply don't know they are listening to the wrong, and vastly inferior, album. That's just deceptive.

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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Sle]
      #639233 - 21/07/08 08:22 AM
Quote Sle:

Gelled_Fringe and a few others were making a case for the other side, and were basically shouldered unceremoniously out of the way.




Sorry Sle, but Gelled_Fringe didn't present his case very well at all and all I got was a complete tosh of abuse. Just thought I'd point that out again before I'm accused, again, of being an old git... of which I am NOT

Cheers,
Peter

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onesecondglance



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Aural Reject]
      #639236 - 21/07/08 08:27 AM
Quote Aural Reject:

[extreme limiting could die out]...or gain a cult following




you mean in thirty years when it's fashionable to have everything analogue and with 12dbfs headroom, some independent spirits - the Steve Albinis of their day - will be whacking everything through maxed out limiters?! they'll start comparing "vintage" limiters, to see which one has the most obvious clipping...

"it adds so much character, y'know? gotta get that '00 sound..."

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Humphreysbogort



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: onesecondglance]
      #639246 - 21/07/08 08:58 AM
I'm in my mid twenties.

I have something to confess.

I've started listening to radio 4 on my way home from work (bows head in shame)

When I listen to comercial 'pop radio stations such as radio 1, I can't seem to do it for more than 10 mins. It feels like someone is coming up to my ear and SHOUTING AT ME AS LOUD AS THEY CAN. The quality of the 'records' that they play is absolutely destroyed into a squashed mess of hi hat wash.

In contrast i find the smooth relaxed tones of radio 4...well just relaxing, shame they don't play records.

anyway...confession over...I feel so liberated!


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Tui
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639247 - 21/07/08 08:59 AM
It's all down to taste. As with food, some people, given the choice between a proper meal and getting some grub from a fast-food chain, will still pick the fast-food...

However, what's been happening with popular music is that choice has been eradicated. To my ears, most popular music - whether from the States, Europe or Asia - sounds pretty much the same: Autotuned and Protooled to death, void of subtleties or dynamics. In a word: boring. Not to mention mind numbing one-chord/one-beat/one-bass line dance tracks. My parent's generation listened and danced to music by Glen Miller and Benny Goodman, which, by comparison, seems like classical symphony and opera. Talking about "evolution", in this context, has to be a sad joke.


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snipsnip



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639277 - 21/07/08 10:15 AM
Radio 4 is don. Dont be ashamed.

If you want records theres always desert island discs. Plus kirsty youngs voice is nice.

win win.


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Handlestash



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639281 - 21/07/08 10:28 AM
It's not all doom and/or gloom though.
Has anyone heard Joan as police woman's first album: Real Life? Mmm... dynamic.
She has a new one out but I haven't heard it yet.

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audioartist



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Handlestash]
      #639298 - 21/07/08 11:28 AM
Quote Handlestash:

It's not all doom and/or gloom though.
Has anyone heard Joan as police woman's first album: Real Life? Mmm... dynamic.
She has a new one out but I haven't heard it yet.




yes! great album

go see her live, even more amazing


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onesecondglance



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: audioartist]
      #639305 - 21/07/08 11:42 AM
does anyone think it would be enlightening to make a poll to gauge the overall balance of opinion regarding "loudness" on this forum? or would it just be another battleground in the making?

i just wonder if we might be surprised at how many people say they are either not bothered by, or indeed enjoy extreme limited tracks. it wouldn't prove anything, of course, but might be interesting to see what sort of numbers come up. and voters wouldn't have to worry about starting any arguments or affecting their reps in the same way as posting in a thread like this.

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Edited by onesecondglance (21/07/08 11:45 AM)


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: onesecondglance]
      #639322 - 21/07/08 12:13 PM
Quote onesecondglance:

does anyone think it would be enlightening to make a poll to gauge the overall balance of opinion regarding "loudness" on this forum? or would it just be another battleground in the making?





Not really onesecond, simply because there still seems to be some confusion between the concepts of loudness and square wave compression.

Having a mix loud can be achieved in a number of ways by a good ME without being destructive.

But narrow banding a mix is an entirely different subject and quite confusing for those who do not understand the technical process and side effects.

There also seems to be confusion, from reading these posts, about over compression being used in a musical context.
It seems that many are confusing over compression on individual sounds against over compression on an entire mix master.

Nothing at all wrong with narrow banding certain sounds in a mix but to narrow band a mix completely undermines the whole process and actually serves no useful purpose, both aurally and aesthetically, even for genre specific mixes.

Because of these confusions a poll would not really reflect a true result as the misunderstanding and confusion between the two is clearly evident in this thread.

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onesecondglance



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639324 - 21/07/08 12:20 PM
fair enough!

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JamesSimpson



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639334 - 21/07/08 12:54 PM
narpin dont be embarrassed im 19 and i hate the sound of radio 1. I also despise the idea that the "youth of today" are telling us what to listen to by the coolest guys around, two of which are zane lowe, and my personal favourite Tim public school westwood. If i wanted to know a 50 year olds opinion on the latest hip hop record id ask my dad.

This isnt a derision of age I actually prefer a lot of older records and prefer radio 2 over radio 1 if i have to listen to the radio. I just refuse to believe that Tim Westwood can be at all genuine.

If it gives anybody else a slither of satisfaction of hope, everybody i know who performs music hates radio 1 and the practise of super compressed music. If the next generation of music creators dislike this practise surely they wont allow it in their music and so the public will still buy that music as its the big new thing. I dont think the public would notice, the radio stations still have compressors, but if the artist persists especially with the breaking down of larger record labels power, hopefully in the future records will sound better.

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Steve Hill
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: JamesSimpson]
      #639371 - 21/07/08 02:52 PM
Radio 1 has been rubbish since 1967 when they kicked off with Flowers In The Rain by the Move, introduced by DJ Tony Blackburn. (Tragically, I remember where I was when I listened to this).

With rare honourable exceptions like John Peel they've always been middle-of-the-road, chart oriented pap. Exactly what you'd expect the Beeb to come up with as a tax-funded public service broadcaster tasked with doing something for "youth", and convening many committees of grey-haired old farts to consider what the brief actually meant.

If you scour the R1 playlists of the late 1960s you'll find little or no trace of Hendrix, Zeppelin, Floyd... no hope for anyone not issuing singles, and/or a bit "underground" (for which read inaccessible), or controversial. Setting fire to guitars = incitement to riot! Actually a plausible enough fear given the student riots of 68, Mao's Little Red Book, the cold war etc. I'm sure the Beeb felt it was their patriotic duty to keep the nation's youth on the straight and narrow.

Good job we had the pirates.

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ken long



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #639375 - 21/07/08 03:12 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

...convening many committees of grey-haired old farts to consider what the brief actually meant.





I thought we dispensed with the name calling .

Agreed about Peel though. He was the only one playing obscure music which would never have been heard were it not for his show. There was a lot of cr*p on there too but when it was good, it was great.

ken

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Handlestash



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639377 - 21/07/08 03:18 PM
There is 1, I repeat, 1 radio station in the whole of Ireland that is not shackled to the charts and that's Phantom 105.2 They have never played keaneplay or anyone of that ilk, not one R&B 'drop' from after 1990 nor Celien Dion. They play more Irish bands (signed or not) than any other station in the country ever has. They play current bands but have a good mix of old school stuff. They even have Bob Dylan's show on sunday evenings. They strive to offer fresh pregramming (their programme director 'fired himself' from doing the morning show this week because he felt they needed a change)
Does anybody listen to them?
Eh...
(I don't work for them by the way)

Biggest station in Dublin City? Spin. Text in shows, mid atlantic accents, cash givaways a fleet of pink Mini's and Fiddy Cent.

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A Non O Miss



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Tui]
      #639427 - 21/07/08 06:13 PM
Quote:

To my ears, most popular music - whether from the States, Europe or Asia - sounds pretty much the same: Autotuned and Protooled to death, void of subtleties or dynamics. In a word: boring. Not to mention mind numbing one-chord/one-beat/one-bass line dance tracks. My parent's generation listened and danced to music by Glen Miller and Benny Goodman, which, by comparison, seems like classical symphony and opera. Talking about "evolution", in this context, has to be a sad joke.




I listen to old stuff and it has the same, as you call it, mind numbing boring backing tracks. Just because they are guitar or whatever doesn't make them any different. Simple is simple whether it be a heavily repeated hook from your favorite old school band or a repeated loop from your most hated new school performer.

You and I may be able to tell what is auto tuned and such, and when used over the top for effect I don't like it much either, but a subtle auto tune to help smooth everything out makes it sound a lot better to the average listener. I play stuff that has subtle auto tune and they don't sit back and start ranting and raving, it is limited and they don't sit back and start grumbling...They go "Wow this sounds really good, so professional and smooth". I play one that doesn't have it and I get.."Wow now I understand what mixing does". Everything in moderation..

Complain all you want don't forget that the customer is boss.


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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: A Non O Miss]
      #639431 - 21/07/08 06:22 PM
Quote A Non O' Miss:

Complain all you want don't forget that the customer is boss.




That is a extremely valid and excellent point.

P

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Tui
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639470 - 21/07/08 08:21 PM
Quote Pete (Conz) Connelly:

Quote A Non O' Miss:

Complain all you want don't forget that the customer is boss.




That is a extremely valid and excellent point.

P




What point? If they really could sing and play, all the autotuning and protooling wouldn't be necessary. Before those tools became available, artists either could sing and play, or they had no product. Simple. Nowadays, everybody seems to think they can skip the practising and rehearsing bit - never mind talent - fix it all in he mix, and Bob's your uncle. Result: Switch on the radio, go down to a club, watch xyz music programme on telly, and die of boredom.

Music was the same 20-30 years ago? Don't make me laugh. There were Bob Marley, Al Jarreau, Kate Bush, George Benson, Jethro Tull, Donald Fagen, Grace Jones, Tina Turner, Earth, Wind & Fire in the charts, to name but a few. All superb artists and totally original. Today you'd need a microscope to find artists of comparable calibre in the charts.


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snipsnip



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Tui]
      #639473 - 21/07/08 08:27 PM
Quote Tui:

Today you'd need a microscope to find artists of comparable calibre in the charts.




I would agree, but it depends what you're looking for. And its evident your not exactly open minded when it comes to music.


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Steve Hill
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: snipsnip]
      #639484 - 21/07/08 08:46 PM
Quote snipsnip:

Quote Tui:

Today you'd need a microscope to find artists of comparable calibre in the charts.




I would agree, but it depends what you're looking for. And its evident your not exactly open minded when it comes to music.




This really is not a generational thing however much people might wish it were. I have in the last 12 months worked with people up to 35 years younger than me (and some a bit older) and we get on fine. I know young musicians who squeeze every bit of wisdom they can out of say Beatles stuff to help them develop their songwriting craft. And that's good.

However, if we have to get "generational", I can't actually think of a period in my misspent youth where an entire body of music was ruthlessly, if entertainingly, dismissed by a serious national newspaper as "indie landfill".

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snipsnip



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639491 - 21/07/08 09:12 PM
I dont like that indie ish either mang, but its totally subjective at the end of the day.

plus I dont think referencing an article from the independent is exactly proof of anything.

That used to be a good paper but now it pumps out as much ish as the mail. Every other special feature is scare mongering about electro magnetic poisoning or some tosh.

Also, OF COURSE its generational. Everything is, its the nature of the beast that people 50 years younger than you are going to think differently. Theyve grown up in a totally different world.

You cant say kate bush is better than kano just because YOU think she's better. Theres a million people that disagree in each direction and trying to pretend that your inexorably right only makes people look stupid.


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A Non O Miss



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Tui]
      #639496 - 21/07/08 09:26 PM
Quote:

What point? If they really could sing and play, all the autotuning and protooling wouldn't be necessary. Before those tools became available, artists either could sing and play, or they had no product. Simple. Nowadays, everybody seems to think they can skip the practising and rehearsing bit - never mind talent - fix it all in he mix, and Bob's your uncle. Result: Switch on the radio, go down to a club, watch xyz music programme on telly, and die of boredom.

Music was the same 20-30 years ago? Don't make me laugh. There were Bob Marley, Al Jarreau, Kate Bush, George Benson, Jethro Tull, Donald Fagen, Grace Jones, Tina Turner, Earth, Wind & Fire in the charts, to name but a few. All superb artists and totally original. Today you'd need a microscope to find artists of comparable calibre in the charts.




You're missing the point. Don't generalize something simply because of technology. Becoming lazy and or not being able to sing and overusing auto tuning is not good and I do not agree with it. However there are plenty of older records and artists that could have been a little better if subtle tuning was used. Not everyone "back in the day" was a perfect singer. The difference with today is the advancement of technology making it a lot easier to do these things and unfortunately a lot of artists simply rely on it.

Also the whole face of music is changing with labels not wanting to invest money to develop artists. This causes all artists to start off on an indie basis. Some are more serious than others and some take more care in their careers. With the advancement of technology however it allows everyone to give it a shot and the ones that are not serious help heap crap onto the pile making it harder to find comparable music. This is just the way it is. If only big studios could turn out records like the old days then obviously we wouldn't have so much garbage, but times have changed, deal with it. Not everyone can afford a million dollar budget on an indie level, but that doesn't mean that all indie music is garbage.

The old days are exactly that, OLD.

It would be nice if every person could sing perfect but just because I should be able to maintain the same speed on the highway doesn't mean I am not going to use the cruise control.


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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Tui]
      #639497 - 21/07/08 09:27 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote Pete (Conz) Connelly:

Quote A Non O' Miss:

Complain all you want don't forget that the customer is boss.




That is a extremely valid and excellent point.

P




What point?




That more than often you have to bite your lip and deliver EXACTLY what THEY want, no matter how much you try and convince them it's not the way to go.

Cheers,
Peter

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www.peterconnelly.com


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Tui
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #639502 - 21/07/08 09:35 PM
Quote Steve Hill:


However, if we have to get "generational", I can't actually think of a period in my misspent youth where an entire body of music was ruthlessly, if entertainingly, dismissed by a serious national newspaper as "indie landfill".




"I was in Gap a few weeks ago and there was some sort of generic indie music playing," he says. "I was with a friend who's a promoter and a bit younger than me. After about three or four tracks I asked him: 'Whose LP is this?' And he said, 'No, it's a compilation.' Every track sounded identical. The guitars, the production; all these bands sound like they're made in the same studio with the same producer. It's such a ball-less, soulless, generic whitewashed indie sound. You could probably take a member from each band and throw them together in a new group and no one would be able to tell the difference. They're completely interchangeable."

Exactly. And that's just one contemporary style of music, I could say the same about pretty much all of them. God, I have such a CRAVING for somebody exciting to come along and make me feel like the first time I watched Earth, Wind & Fire on TV - I will never forget the moment when my jaw dropped to the floor. Or Kate Bush when she did her Wuthering Heights - whether of not you like her voice, nobody had done anything similar before. Or Grace Jones' Slave to the Rhythm - music from another world. What happened to that kind of raw creativity, that sense of excitement, the push of boundaries beyond all conventions?


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Steve Hill
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: snipsnip]
      #639504 - 21/07/08 09:39 PM
Quote snipsnip:

Also, OF COURSE its generational. Everything is, its the nature of the beast that people 50 years younger than you are going to think differently. Theyve grown up in a totally different world.




Strange as it may seem, I happen to occupy the same world and keep reasonably apprised of what's going on in it. Possibly to a degree that the average young person might consider scary.

But it is the birthright of youth to use music as a cudgel with which to beat up their parents' generation because, obviously, their stuff is way cooler.

We all go through it. Eventually, if you are halfway serious about music, you spend a bit of time working out why say Nelson Riddle was such a good arranger of Sinatra's songs. Or how J S Bach modulated his key changes. Because it's vital information for your craft. It's rites of passage like this that stop you being a dilettante fan and start you being a serious professional. You either reject them or embrace them, and thus is your future as a musician determined.

The best musicians I've ever worked with learn something every day and are always listening to new (or old) stuff.

They might dislike it quickly, and move on. But they give it a go, just in case it offers something.

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Celsius
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Tui]
      #639505 - 21/07/08 09:39 PM
Listening to 20 year old pop music and there are plenty of examples of popular artist in dire need of tuning.

Listing your own highly personal prefs seems slightly irrelevant btw.
In the end it just depends who you ask. The keyword is taste, and that differ as everyone know.
The artists might appear "superb" to you but keep in mind that it's s**t to others.

--------------------
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ken long



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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #639506 - 21/07/08 09:39 PM
Quote Steve Hill:


This really is not a generational thing however much people might wish it were.




Unfortunately, I think it is and here's why:

Quote Steve Hill:


I have in the last 12 months worked with people up to 35 years younger than me (and some a bit older) and we get on fine. I know young musicians who squeeze every bit of wisdom they can out of say Beatles stuff to help them develop their songwriting craft. And that's good.




And that's good? OK. Sometimes I'll admit.


Quote Steve Hill:

However, if we have to get "generational", I can't actually think of a period in my misspent youth where an entire body of music was ruthlessly, if entertainingly, dismissed by a serious national newspaper as "indie landfill".




Interesting article but it is using seriously commercial "indie bands" as its barometer of success.

ken

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Tui
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639507 - 21/07/08 09:43 PM
Quote Pete (Conz) Connelly:

Quote Tui:

Quote Pete (Conz) Connelly:

Quote A Non O' Miss:

Complain all you want don't forget that the customer is boss.




That is a extremely valid and excellent point.

P




What point?




That more than often you have to bite your lip and deliver EXACTLY what THEY want, no matter how much you try and convince them it's not the way to go.

Cheers,
Peter




I chose not to work with people who can't sing or play. I guess I'm lucky that I don't have to - it would drive me around the bend.


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Celsius
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #639508 - 21/07/08 09:44 PM
You just need to look a bit further back to find an entire genre dismissed by an entire generation.(with precious few exeptions).

--------------------
Phatcat Studios--"I love the smell of Genelecs in the morning"


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Steve Hill
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Celsius]
      #639509 - 21/07/08 09:45 PM
No truly great musician has ever dismissed anything without first giving it a fair, critical hearing, free from bias.

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Dynamite with a laser beam...


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PWGLE



Joined: 04/05/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: UK - Cardiff/Bath
Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Tui]
      #639511 - 21/07/08 09:47 PM
Although Radio1 is generally rubbish, I've got quite alot of time for Rob Bank, and Chris Coco. I've discovered some pretty decent stuff through them....

Shame you have to tune in at 2am or something silly like that!

L

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?


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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Tui]
      #639513 - 21/07/08 09:54 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote Pete (Conz) Connelly:

Quote Tui:

Quote Pete (Conz) Connelly:

Quote A Non O' Miss:

Complain all you want don't forget that the customer is boss.




That is a extremely valid and excellent point.

P




What point?




That more than often you have to bite your lip and deliver EXACTLY what THEY want, no matter how much you try and convince them it's not the way to go.

Cheers,
Peter




I chose not to work with people who can't sing or play. I guess I'm lucky that I don't have to - it would drive me around the bend.




If I was in a position to pick and chose, maybe I would turn down the more "involved" clients, so every little helps.

Cheers,
Peter

--------------------
Composer, Songwriter, Producer, Sound Designer
www.peterconnelly.com


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Celsius
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #639519 - 21/07/08 10:20 PM
Nah. Musicians aren't exactly known for being open minded. Great or not. Most of them are perfectly capable of dismissing an entire genre without bothering to listen. They simply dismiss it as "the wrong genre". Some examples of this in this very thread too. Again it comes down to taste and, IMO, anyone claiming to have "better" taste than other really comes of as a snob(not directed at you), but it does become relevant when aesthetics are involved

--------------------
Phatcat Studios--"I love the smell of Genelecs in the morning"


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A Non O Miss



Joined: 07/02/08
Posts: 941
Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #639526 - 21/07/08 10:39 PM
Quote:

No truly great musician has ever dismissed anything without first giving it a fair, critical hearing, free from bias.




I couldn't agree more with this statement. Any artist that is unable to listen to every artist in every genre and try and learn something from every one of them will never be the best they can be.

I'm no fan of Country music but I sure enjoy listening to it and have no hesitation of taking what I can from it. To me music is music no matter what genre or what generation you are talking about, if you are a music lover you will accept every genre from every generation, whether or not you will support that genre financially is another story.

This in itself doesn't make me great but hopefully it makes me as good as I can be. If I can add Country elements along with Rock and Techno in a pot with Hip-Hop hopefully I will not be generalized as mindless following by cynics like Tui


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Tui
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Joined: 02/09/02
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Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: A Non O Miss]
      #639530 - 21/07/08 10:51 PM
Quote A Non O' Miss:

cynics like Tui




I'm no cynic. I love music, but I can't stand mediocrity dressed up as "art" and rolled out to global audiences as if it was God's gift to the world.


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Squiresy91



Joined: 09/07/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639531 - 21/07/08 10:56 PM
I think its just a case of using the tools to do the job. I think if they had a autotune etc in the "old days" then they would have used just as much as the artists of today. Its just development in technology has made it easier, cheap and quicker to acheive results in the studio. I do however believe that song writing isn't as good as it is on "older" records, maybe its because you had to be a better musician before quantize etc but again thats only my view other folks may well disagree!

Also find myself agreeing with the "old gits" (as they have been refered to!)on here quiet often! hehe sorry couldn't resist!

And on the topic (how dare I?!) Im quite a fan of loud mastered tracks I like it when I heard a well produced Pop song doing its thing you might laugh but the 'Jordin Sparks No Air' is one that has been mastered really bloomin loud but its right for that song!

Anyhow peace my forum friends let there be harmony (haha see what i did there? ......................Ok so it wasn't funny ermm i'll get my coat!


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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
Posts: 4605
Loc: The Orient, East London
Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Tui]
      #639532 - 21/07/08 10:59 PM
Quote Tui:

I love music




We all do. And its this passion that fuels these futile arguments over taste.

ken

--------------------
I'm All Ears.


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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
Posts: 4605
Loc: The Orient, East London
Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Squiresy91]
      #639534 - 21/07/08 11:11 PM
Quote Squiresy91:

I think its just a case of using the tools to do the job. I think if they had a autotune etc in the "old days" then they would have used just as much as the artists of today.




Agreed. But artists in 'the past' have always been discovered on merit. More than often this means genuine talent - regardless of error correction.

Quote Squiresy91:


Its just development in technology has made it easier, cheap and quicker to acheive results in the studio. I do however believe that song writing isn't as good as it is on "older" records, maybe its because you had to be a better musician before quantize etc but again thats only my view other folks may well disagree!





I would agree with the first part of this statement but I can't agree with the second because I'm hearing a multitude of bands at the moment who are flipping the past on its head, all while retaining the integrity of good old fashioned song-writing.

ken

--------------------
I'm All Ears.


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Squiresy91



Joined: 09/07/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #639537 - 21/07/08 11:24 PM
I see your point with the song writting i just mean on a whole i don't think its as good. There are some amazing songs written these days don't get me wrong. I think your right about artists being found on merit way back when.


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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
Posts: 4605
Loc: The Orient, East London
Re: Loudness Wars - Pointing the Finger at Demacio 'Demo' Castellon new [Re: Squiresy91]
      #639542 - 21/07/08 11:41 PM
Quote Squiresy91:

I see your point with the song writting i just mean on a whole i don't think its as good.




Well sure. But considering their is no budget for song writers anymore, some of the songs being released today are quality - both musically and lyrically. Yes, they are very rare. However, I don't believe that song writing, as a profession, is dead. Look at people like Amanda Ghost for example. She's been writing for many international artists and her songs always do well... as in platinum.

But perhaps that still doesn't compare with the past?

ken

ken

--------------------
I'm All Ears.


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