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IvanSC



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #662625 - 01/10/08 12:08 PM
Quote Richie Royale:

Can somebody define "groove" in relation to this thread please.



If you have to ask, you don`t get it.
Period.
(even bigger grin)

Listen to the couple of things posted on here and then listen to that half-assed loop thing posted by another well-intentioned R`nB Reborn fan.
Now the difference between that & the Bill Withers/Eddie Raven stuff is what groove is about.

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IvanSC



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: snipsnip]
      #662626 - 01/10/08 12:11 PM
Quote snipsnip:

Quote dubbmann:

i lay the blame on the decline of motown and the rise of rap.




I disagree with you in so many ways.



Come on then - put your money where your mouth is.
A lot of posts on here either curious about "groove" or agreeing with my original post.
I would love to hear from someone who disagrees and can back it up.

Not that I would attribute the loss of groove in the UK to the deline of Motown.
Always thought Memphis & Philly did it better.

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Tui
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662636 - 01/10/08 12:20 PM
I guess what's happening to pop/rock today is what happened to jazz/big band in the 1970s: The initial excitement and anarchic energy has been used up. From now on, we'll probably see several generations of imitators, imitating imitators.

Let's face it, the subversive rock/pop music scene of the 60s-80s has been replaced by corporate-controlled karaoke shows and bands that tend to produce inconsequential, acoustic wallpaper. The shelf life of today's top artists is short, very few are capable of writing timeless, classic tunes.

Needless to say, there are still great players and song writers around, but trying to identify them is like looking for needles in haystacks. By and large, though, the zeitgeist has moved on, and widespread machine-worship is reflected in an endless stream of soulless, coarse, and repetitive music.


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Dr Whom



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662661 - 01/10/08 01:19 PM
Quote IvanSC:

this is prolly OT but what the heck.
I am in the middle of considering putting a band together to play fun stuff at little no-count gigs for hardly any money, since this seems to be the only way to play what you want to play.

In the course of organising things, it occurred to me that he number of young players who can actually recognise a good groove, let alone create one is dwindling fast.

Has the reduction in sperm count and testosterone levels in young males led to a similar shrinking of their bootie-shaking ability?

Nobody seems to want to get down and dirty any more.




well ivan mate, if you're in london, and aren't going to play too often and you want serious badd-ass oldskool slap funk bass with kwality basslines... pm me

but your drummer had better be damned good cos half the problem with funk/groove stuff is often caused by drummers who cant keep their kickdrum pattern. They change their kick pattern to match the bass down-notes as soon as they hear your offbeat bassline and the pattern & groove all goes to [ ****** ].

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Richie Royale



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662662 - 01/10/08 01:20 PM
Quote IvanSC:

Quote Richie Royale:

Can somebody define "groove" in relation to this thread please.



If you have to ask, you don`t get it.
Period.
(even bigger grin)

Listen to the couple of things posted on here and then listen to that half-assed loop thing posted by another well-intentioned R`nB Reborn fan.
Now the difference between that & the Bill Withers/Eddie Raven stuff is what groove is about.




No, I know what my interpretation of what a groove is, but as the term is open to interpretation, I was hoping you would be able to define it more clearly.

Are we talking about the vigour in which people play their instruments or the ability to make a track that makes people dance (and I don't mean the foxtrot)? Are we discussing the subtle timing changes by the drummer that holds the track together or the additional notes a bassist puts in to liven up the bottom end?

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ken long



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #662664 - 01/10/08 01:24 PM
Quote Richie Royale:

and I don't mean the foxtrot






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ken long



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Tui]
      #662670 - 01/10/08 01:29 PM
Quote Tui:

From now on, we'll probably see several generations of imitators, imitating imitators.





The UK music scene since the dance music of the 1930s through to the Beatles and Stones and through to Punk and Hip Hop has been founded on imitation.

Carbon copies, albeit with slight twists, of what's been going on in the US.

There are very few exceptions IMO.

ken

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Michael Dow



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662680 - 01/10/08 01:42 PM
I dont see why people are slating the dubstep genre on here.

It's not "groovy" no. But it isn't meant to be. It's meant to be dark, heavy and atmospheric. Which it is.

Just because you dont understand how to dance to it or appreciate its subtlties doesnt mean it's a style that can't be danced to!

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Ian Stewart



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662693 - 01/10/08 02:04 PM
Quote IvanSC:


I am in the middle of considering putting a band together to play fun stuff at little no-count gigs for hardly any money, since this seems to be the only way to play what you want to play.


Has the reduction in sperm count and testosterone levels in young males led to a similar shrinking of their bootie-shaking ability?

Nobody seems to want to get down and dirty any more.




Great idea, do you want me to do the loops on a laptop or MPC.

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Ian Stewart



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662695 - 01/10/08 02:05 PM
Why all this obsession with music to dance to when Caucasians can't dance anyway? (It's not racist, I'm Caucasian.)

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hollowsun



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662707 - 01/10/08 02:45 PM
Quote IvanSC:

let`s not forget that it is possible to alter tempo within a sequence, plus a bit of light & shade in velocity can make all the difference.

But it still comes down to people knowing how to make it all breathe & live.



Agreed. You can also make a good groove with a solidly (machine) sequenced rhythm by having good musos who can play 'around' the backing. Jam and Lewis were very good at this - basic kick and snare on machine but everything else played 'around' that

I always thought Go West were very good too. Here they are from recent gigs...

Call Me

And king of swing with machines is our Trevor of course and this is just sublimely groovalicious in my opinion:

Slave To The Rhythm

Quote IvanSC:

So - any of you listened to the file I posted last night care to make a comment?



It's excellent.

The thing is, Ivan, you have such a deep well to draw from when you start bringing Nashville musos and C&W into the equation because they are almost all of them excellent musos who know how to 'play' and play together.

And I share your sentiments about the loop-based example that was posted. If it has a groove, it's simply because it's an existing groove by an 'old master' that was copied and pasted and looped

Quote IvanSC:

Friend of mine who worked in Nashville at the same time as me and came back to the UK a bit before me said she was not interested in getting a band together to gig her material as she couldn`t find anyone that could play ensemble well enough.
*sigh*



They are around - just hard to find.

Maybe the trouble is that you and your friend were spoilt in Nashville where the emphasis is on good old-fashioned musicianship first and foremost - you don't last two minutes there solely on 'attitude' ... if you can't cut it there, you wait tables!!!

We have some great musos here who could do what you want ... it's just that they are wider spread and harder to find ... or busy and booked up already!

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ConcertinaChap



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Ian Stewart]
      #662716 - 01/10/08 03:14 PM
Quote Ian Stewart:

Why all this obsession with music to dance to when Caucasians can't dance anyway? (It's not racist, I'm Caucasian.)



Er, been to a good ceilidh recently?

Sorry, I'll get back in my hole.

Chris

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Ronnie Wibbley
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: hollowsun]
      #662719 - 01/10/08 03:19 PM
Quote hollowsun:


And king of swing with machines is our Trevor of course and this is just sublimely groovalicious in my opinion:

Slave To The Rhythm




Ah yes... so in your opinion is the groove down to WASH THEM GO GO: William Ju Ju House (drums), Reginald Little Beats Daughtry (percussion) and Timothy Shorty Tim Glover (percussion), appearing courtesy of T.E.D.D. Records Inc....

or the sampler that he recorded them onto?


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Temp



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662724 - 01/10/08 03:28 PM
When I personally talk of a groove I'm referring to a certain cool economy with jazz-tinted music. Impro ( or at least the impression of impro) often plays a heavy role too. It's a certain lilt/genre that's very hard to describe. Soul man, slow disco, you know, funky. Haiku for the discotheque if you will. Definitely dance-orientated.

For me, with regards to groove-based orchestration and arrangements, it's often pared down to a few interwoven hooks featuring rhodes, hammond, vibes, guitar, simple but catchy basslines, a touch of brass, close black harmonies and tight drums.

In a more up-to-date context, I'm feeling Daft Punk's groove.

For a primer, here's JB with a chunky 10 minutes:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tDMfaFyW_EU

Note the ever-changing slight variations - it's essentially a jam session.

And as for this track by Dizzy, well, it infected my music ever after with a certain porn tweeness:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MIlPM0cxqnk

Check out the synth at 1:25, comedy man.

Some more for you, Aaron Neville with Hercules:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ySmdF1hTLS0

Classic JBs with Gimme Some More:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V8-4osSHkJc

Being a nostalgic 70s kid, I admit to this being a wholly subjective and somewhat genre-tied interpretation of what constitutes a groove. As Ivan's track displays, we all have quite different but nonetheless valid ideas of what it actually means in practice.

Look around the dancefloor when a funk/rare groove track comes on. Most folks' bodies/heads bob down on the beat, groovers go up. Perhaps it's genetic...

Cheers.

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Ian Stewart



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: John Willett]
      #662731 - 01/10/08 03:40 PM
Quote John Willett:

I thought the groove went out with the vinyl record.

Its just pits in plastic nowadays.






So will the old phrase "in the groove" now be replaced by "in the pits"?

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Spangler



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662781 - 01/10/08 05:19 PM
As a bass player, groove to me is when it feels like I'm plucking the kick drum.

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IvanSC



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Ian Stewart]
      #662817 - 01/10/08 07:09 PM
Quote Ian Stewart:

Quote IvanSC:


I am in the middle of considering putting a band together to play fun stuff at little no-count gigs for hardly any money, since this seems to be the only way to play what you want to play.


Has the reduction in sperm count and testosterone levels in young males led to a similar shrinking of their bootie-shaking ability?

Nobody seems to want to get down and dirty any more.




Great idea, do you want me to do the loops on a laptop or MPC.







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IvanSC



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #662822 - 01/10/08 07:29 PM
Quote Richie Royale:

Quote IvanSC:

Quote Richie Royale:

Can somebody define "groove" in relation to this thread please.



If you have to ask, you don`t get it.
Period.
(even bigger grin)

Listen to the couple of things posted on here and then listen to that half-assed loop thing posted by another well-intentioned R`nB Reborn fan.
Now the difference between that & the Bill Withers/Eddie Raven stuff is what groove is about.




No, I know what my interpretation of what a groove is, but as the term is open to interpretation, I was hoping you would be able to define it more clearly.

Are we talking about the vigour in which people play their instruments or the ability to make a track that makes people dance (and I don't mean the foxtrot)? Are we discussing the subtle timing changes by the drummer that holds the track together or the additional notes a bassist puts in to liven up the bottom end?




Quite simply put, I can only reiterate what I said before.
When you`re getting it, you`ll know.

There will be not even the slightest shadow of doubt in your mind when you really hit a groove.

Best feeling in the world but the worst feeling in the world when it is close but you don`t quite get there.

It`s a distillation of all the little nuances of playing with others that suddenly create magic.

Good musicians respond to it by creating something that is more than the sum of the parts of those involved, punters with the ears and soul to appreciate it, get down on it.

The really is no way to quantify it, but it has nothing much to do with age or experience.
It just happens or it doesn`t.

When I was young I worked with only two drummers who made it feel like there was only one of us.
Later I learned to recreate that feeling to an extent through using my ears and my own sensitivity to other`s musical direction, but even then it doesn`t always work out.

A lot of African (particularly west african) music seems to reach that collective high a lot easier than europeans do.
Not sure why.
Maybe because they see music as a shared experience more than we do.
Not many ways to be a bedroom drummer....

Sorry if this still doesn`1t get over what I feel is missing so much nowadays, but after having nearly convinced myelf that valve amps DIDNT sound as great as I remembered them in my youth and then building a copy of an old one that did, I`m sticking to my guns on this one.

Less and less young players know how to hold down a groove.

Check ou tosme of the old rockabilly and western swing acts - they still groove like crazy for the most part.

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IvanSC



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Michael Dow]
      #662835 - 01/10/08 08:14 PM
Quote Michael Dow:

I dont see why people are slating the dubstep genre on here.

It's not "groovy" no. But it isn't meant to be. It's meant to be dark, heavy and atmospheric. Which it is.

Just because you dont understand how to dance to it or appreciate its subtlties doesnt mean it's a style that can't be danced to!




I for one haven`t a clue what dubstep is.

Similar to a Twostep or a Quickstep?
(grin)
But for what it is worth if people struggle to dance to it, there`s something wrong with the music, not the people.

Not all music is innately suitable for dancing but if it`s for dancing and it don`t groove, it`s just that much harder to dance to.
God I hope nobody mentions Dance Music.

*sigh*


Hang on a mo - I just went all over this thread looking for where someone slagged off your dubstep.

Not a sign of the word "dubstep" till you accused someone of slagging it off.

Are you in the wrong thread, Michael?

Or did I nod off at a crucial moment again?

Nearly my bedtime.

Edited by IvanSC (01/10/08 08:20 PM)


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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662846 - 01/10/08 09:02 PM
Ha Ivan!

Great reading as always.

I won't go into dance music seeing as you believe disco decimated some corner of the 70s music market.

I think you are spot on in some respects but a little disparaging when it comes to contemporary music and what makes the kids groove nowadays. And that's OK. You're always reminding people that you're an older gentleman so its OK for you to feel that way. I am not as old as you are but I grew up on a diet of Disco, Philly Soul (Gamble and Huff) followed it through to Boogie (Change, Chic) to House Music (although not as much ) and to the current state its in. I too don't like the newer model and prefer the old one. But I appreciate the newer stuff because I know kids like it and kids buy the records (OK maybe less here than in the US).

The groove is subjective. What makes an old timer like you move, doesn't make a kid from Clapton move in the same way.

I don't mean any disprespect of course.

ken

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Ben



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662852 - 01/10/08 09:22 PM
Quote IvanSC:

if people struggle to dance to it, there`s something wrong with the music




You haven't been to the weddings I have.


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tomafd



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662865 - 01/10/08 09:57 PM
Quote IvanSC:


A lot of African (particularly west african) music seems to reach that collective high a lot easier than europeans do.
Not sure why.





... because they're not taught that the only beats that really 'matter' are 1.2.3.4... when music is being played anywhere in Africa you'll see little kids banging away on anything close at hand, and very often across the beat, playing 3 over 4, or sometimes in patterns that don't seem, initially, to have anything to do with the main rhythm. Nobody tells them they're 'wrong' or that the only place to hit the damn thing is on the downbeat. Very often the most natural place they choose to pick up on is the offbeat, not any kind of downbeat. This means you get generations of musicians who are perfectly happy stretching and pushing the 'strict' definition of whatever the rhythm is 'supposed' to be all over the place. When I first played African music I was always told 'no-play just before [or just after] where you're playing now'- the available 'places' between beats where it was perfectly appropriate to play were far, far wider than in any other music I'd played before. It was a real education.

It's that that makes so much African music 'up', and so much 'white' music 'down'. If you concentrate all the energy into the downbeat (ie, 4 to the floor music) without a corresponding energy into the offbeat, it's like piledrivers into the brain (and speaking purely personally, [ ****** ] boring) Slap a 3,5,6, or even 7 rhythm across a 4 and immediately you'll get all kinds of interesting polyrhythms going on that just make the body wiggle. It's just a whole lot more fun.

.... and it's [ ****** ] groovy.

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tomafd



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Ben]
      #662867 - 01/10/08 10:02 PM
Quote Ben:

Quote IvanSC:

if people struggle to dance to it, there`s something wrong with the music




You haven't been to the weddings I have.




You may like to review the previous comments about Caucasians... or maybe it's just the English. Or maybe just English males. Especially if they're wearing suits. And definitely when they're wearing tails...

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IvanSC



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662876 - 01/10/08 10:22 PM
tomafd - love it!

I think your point about 1-2-3-4 has featured in more of my posts on here than just about any other complaint I have about UK musicians.

It isnt so much as I "dance to the beat of a different drummer" as it were. more that I think sampled rhythm sections and sequencing have led to a huge turn down in the amount of naturally expressed music there is out there.
It`s not easy to create a groove when James Brown`s drummer laid down the feel for you 40 years ago.
I hate to just throw out a blanket "non-british music" categorisation of where most of the real "feel" tracks are nowadays adn equally was at pains to not post a typical "funky" track as my example.
Find me some hip hop that honestly has a good original feel and I`ll begetting down with all the rest even at my advanced age.
FWIW the same thing has happened on the UK Country scene.
All that is out there is soulless rubbish.
Maybe we should all stick to indigenous ethnic British music.
(cue bagpipes and lutes)
Wish I could invite you all round to my place to try and SHOW you what I am on about.
Very frustrating at present.

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IvanSC



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662879 - 01/10/08 10:26 PM
Used to be I only needed someone to tell me what diddy-wah-diddy meant.
Now I need someone to tell me about dubstep too.

Have all you lazy young gits gone to bed already?
I`ve had my horlicks and I`m ready to (t)roll.

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tomafd



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662886 - 01/10/08 10:38 PM
Quote IvanSC:

Used to be I only needed someone to tell me what diddy-wah-diddy meant.
Now I need someone to tell me about dubstep too.

Have all you lazy young gits gone to bed already?
I`ve had my horlicks and I`m ready to (t)roll.




Evening Ivan... FWIW, if you have a look back to the earlier part of this thread you will find a somewhat sarky comment from myself about dubstep, so it's all my fault... though it was also a little tongue in cheek, 'cos actually I quite like the stuff- or like it more than a lot of newer genres. It's just that it's not really much good to dance to... but then I am in my dotage, compared to those who make it.

Basically- it's drum n bass, of a sort, though the tempo is usually a tad slower, and the beats more broken up. Often features a 'wobbly' synth bass with what sounds like a quick LFO sinewave modulation slapped into the filter now and then. Lots of vaguely atonal slabs of sound flying around, and generally 'edgy', 'moody', and appropriate for serious young men being ... serious. Slap 'dubstep' into the youtube search box and you'll find plenty.

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ken long



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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662894 - 01/10/08 11:11 PM
Quote IvanSC:


Find me some hip hop that honestly has a good original feel and I`ll begetting down with all the rest even at my advanced age.





I like DJ Premier . Well into his forties!!

Not your typical rock or country arrangement for sure! But then its Black American music in the tradition of Jazz and Blues... and its very successful both in sales figures and cultural influence.

And Premier has groove. Fo sho.

ken



ken

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jellyjim
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662917 - 02/10/08 01:27 AM
it's the downside of the democratisation of the means of production init?

whilst more people have access to the tools to create music many of which automate hitherto manual skills, the number of people putting the hours in to become even half decent musicians let alone good ones is still the same .. not many in other words

i mean come on, computer based music, it's all got a bit out of hand hasn't it?! i saw some soft synth the other day, it's got like 12,000 presets!!!!!!

i'm not suggesting we go backwards, you've just got to educate people as to what music actually is

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jellyjim
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Joined: 15/05/02
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662919 - 02/10/08 01:34 AM
i played my friend's little daughter some random bleepy electronica (which i quite like) and asked her what it sounded like

she's quite a bright and quirky child, she replied

"it sounds like the internet"

i found that quite an unsettling comment somehow!

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IvanSC



Joined: 08/03/05
Posts: 7799
Loc: UK France & USA depending on t...
Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: tomafd]
      #662930 - 02/10/08 05:46 AM
Quote tomafd:

Quote IvanSC:

Used to be I only needed someone to tell me what diddy-wah-diddy meant.
Now I need someone to tell me about dubstep too.

Have all you lazy young gits gone to bed already?
I`ve had my horlicks and I`m ready to (t)roll.




Evening Ivan... FWIW, if you have a look back to the earlier part of this thread you will find a somewhat sarky comment from myself about dubstep, so it's all my fault... though it was also a little tongue in cheek, 'cos actually I quite like the stuff- or like it more than a lot of newer genres. It's just that it's not really much good to dance to... but then I am in my dotage, compared to those who make it.

Basically- it's drum n bass, of a sort, though the tempo is usually a tad slower, and the beats more broken up. Often features a 'wobbly' synth bass with what sounds like a quick LFO sinewave modulation slapped into the filter now and then. Lots of vaguely atonal slabs of sound flying around, and generally 'edgy', 'moody', and appropriate for serious young men being ... serious. Slap 'dubstep' into the youtube search box and you'll find plenty.




I`ll go have a look/listen then - also to the example of "modern stuff that boogies" posted after you.
DJ somebody and er Premier.
Maybe we should retitle the thread "in search of the lost groove"?
I sort of agree about the effect of technology and the sea of poo-poo (god I hate having to call a spade a gardening implement) we seem to be floating in right now.
Perhaps it really is just down to the level of musicianship, but harking back a little, I doubt if all those African Tribesmen are accomplished "professional" percussionists.
Still comes down to feel and sensibility I suppose.

New retirement project perhaps.
Uncle Ivan`s House of Groove - (c)Jan Pulsford - residential course in bootie shaking and getting down held in the tranquil breton countryside.
Bring yer own bag.

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onesecondglance



Joined: 02/01/08
Posts: 2140
Loc: Reading, UK
Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662945 - 02/10/08 07:24 AM
with no regard to anything except the dubstep comment - i wouldn't say it's actually much to do with drum and bass. it may have come from the same community and uses breakbeats, but it's much more like a collision of dub and garage than ye olde techstep.

Ivan - you are fully within your rights to go "whaaaaaaa" to this post.

btw... what are your thoughts on groove metal? does it "groove" or not? (example...)

EDIT: i feel i should point out that the video i've linked to is ruddy hilarious... i'm sure they looked very tough back in the nineties

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Edited by onesecondglance (02/10/08 07:26 AM)


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IvanSC



Joined: 08/03/05
Posts: 7799
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662964 - 02/10/08 08:24 AM
Oh dear - the gulf widens....

DJ Premiere - the guy can`t even get his samples timed close enough to where they should be, let alone get a groove going.
Do you guys have no sense of time at all?
Time is not an opinion, its a fact.
This is so lame I dont even know where to start.
You could at least have chosen something from the genre that was somewhere close to rockin`.

The hair bear bunch might well be laying down a great groove but 2 things stop it being evident.
The soundtrack to the video has been sliced and diced so many places even if there WAS a groove it has disappeared under all that creative editing.
And DB`s guitar just washes over everything till you can`t hear what the bass player is doing at all.
Just a big blurry subterranean rumble to the point where you don`t know if he is hitting the groove or not.
Even on my main studio monitors.

Put some ACDC stuff up there.
They know how to hit a groove, grab it by the neck and shake it.

I`ve heard Neil Diamond get closer to rockin` it with a pit band than this lot.

I could cry with frustration at just how much so many of you are NOT getting it.

Go listen to Larry Blackmon/Cameo for some recent, manufactured MOBO that still grooves like crazy.

Beginning to think the Prodigy would be a better modern-ish example of something that comes close.

Losing the will to live here, guys.

P.S. I didnt like Gnora Bjones much either but as you say the guys she was working with had fun.

(pause for tea)

Oh well - just went and youtubed up a bunch of dubstep & far from being subtle, sohpisticated, not easy to dance to, etc it just sounds like a dumbed down version of real dub.

Remember?

That stuff with all the echoes that came out of reggae a few years back?

Spent a short while in Jamaica in the eighties and they have it.

Groove.

Maybe its just down to age and experience but everything I hear being heralded as new and exciting & "the old can`t understand it" turns out to be a watered down version of something done earlier but then given its own whole sub-genre of music.
"It`s Acid trash house garbage Goan Indie trip hop ennit?"

For gods sake someone SHOW me something!

If I ever figure out translating vinyl onto mp3 I am going to up load some 1950`s west african stuff that will have you all crying because it sounds so effortless and you lot CAN`T DO IT.
DON`T GET IT

Even Elvis`s early stuff had a decent groove to it.



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Edited by IvanSC (02/10/08 08:39 AM)


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Handlestash



Joined: 30/01/08
Posts: 1327
Loc: Ireland
Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662967 - 02/10/08 08:32 AM
You're a big cuddly bear Ivan. Yes you are, Yes you are...

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onesecondglance



Joined: 02/01/08
Posts: 2140
Loc: Reading, UK
Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662968 - 02/10/08 08:33 AM
Quote IvanSC:

The hair bear bunch might well be laying down a great groove but 2 things stop it being evidfent.
The soundtrack to the video has been sliced and diced so many places even if there WAS a groove it has disappeared under all that creative editing.
And DB`s guitar just washes over everything till you can`t hear what the bass player is doing at all.
Even on my main studio monitors.




well, it is taken from youtube!

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective


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IvanSC



Joined: 08/03/05
Posts: 7799
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662976 - 02/10/08 08:43 AM
1 2nd glance.
youtube didnt put all those pauses in there.
Mind you the pauses were in the right pace and of course tight because the band didnt actually play it like that, irt was cut like that.
Amazed the band pout up with it.
The bits where they are playing unedited sounds like it was pretty good, apart from the bass slurry & that ain`t the players fault..

Damn this thread is taking over my life.
I need to do some work.

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IvanSC



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Posts: 7799
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: Handlestash]
      #662979 - 02/10/08 08:44 AM
Quote Handlestash:

You're a big cuddly bear Ivan. Yes you are, Yes you are...





You calling me FAT?


As a small aside, I sincerely hope that all of you reading and participating in this thread are aware of my somewhat warped sense of humor and know I am not really getting ticked off about this.
But there is much more than a grain of truth in what I`m saying.

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onesecondglance



Joined: 02/01/08
Posts: 2140
Loc: Reading, UK
Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #662997 - 02/10/08 09:10 AM
Quote IvanSC:

1 2nd glance.
youtube didnt put all those pauses in there.
Mind you the pauses were in the right pace and of course tight because the band didnt actually play it like that, irt was cut like that.
Amazed the band pout up with it.
The bits where they are playing unedited sounds like it was pretty good, apart from the bass slurry & that ain`t the players fault..

Damn this thread is taking over my life.
I need to do some work.




i was talking about the general sound quality... but anyway, that would be a "no", you don't think "groove metal" grooves much...

i do sympathise with you; there's not a lot of stuff out there with a *real* groove to it. but it's like shouting at the tide for coming in too fast... ("dammit sea, you're supposed to be behind the beat!")

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IvanSC



Joined: 08/03/05
Posts: 7799
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Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: onesecondglance]
      #663001 - 02/10/08 09:14 AM
Quote onesecondglance:

Quote IvanSC:

1 2nd glance.
youtube didnt put all those pauses in there.
Mind you the pauses were in the right pace and of course tight because the band didnt actually play it like that, irt was cut like that.
Amazed the band pout up with it.
The bits where they are playing unedited sounds like it was pretty good, apart from the bass slurry & that ain`t the players fault..

Damn this thread is taking over my life.
I need to do some work.




i was talking about the general sound quality... but anyway, that would be a "no", you don't think "groove metal" grooves much...

i do sympathise with you; there's not a lot of stuff out there with a *real* groove to it. but it's like shouting at the tide for coming in too fast... ("dammit sea, you're supposed to be behind the beat!")




NBot at all. I just couldn`t hear enough of what the band were actually playing rather than what some [ ****** ] producer had decided to do to the track to tell.
It`s a conspiracy led by skinny blokes with iMacs and a good line in bullsh1t

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thenaturallevel



Joined: 28/02/07
Posts: 1211
Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #663003 - 02/10/08 09:19 AM
Quote IvanSC:

Quote onesecondglance:

Quote IvanSC:


It`s a conspiracy led by skinny blokes with iMacs and a good line in bullsh1t




lol


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onesecondglance



Joined: 02/01/08
Posts: 2140
Loc: Reading, UK
Re: Can`t anybody groove any more? new [Re: IvanSC]
      #663004 - 02/10/08 09:23 AM
Quote IvanSC:

Damn this thread is taking over my life.
I need to do some work.




yes, but then you are positively contributing to the lives of others by keeping such an entertaining thread going (keep telling yourself that, it's as good an excuse as any other)...

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective


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