Main Forums >> Recording Techniques
        Print Thread

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)
Paul Farrer
member


Joined: 16/03/00
Posts: 155
has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth?
      #684509 - 03/12/08 03:40 PM
Mac Pro running logic 8 on leopard. PLAY makes logic crash every 2 minutes.
Anyone got any ideas?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Cork, Ireland
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684512 - 03/12/08 03:52 PM
Rubbish bin?

You can't sell it so unless you want to wait for them to get it right I see no other option.

I don't usually like going around knocking other people's work and when I don't have anything good to say I'd usually rather say nothing, but EW play is complete rubbish, and their forum sucks. I can not think of a single good thing about it. I got voices of passion as a free product in one of their proportions and I it was nothing but problems. High CPU usage, drop outs all the time,problems exported Cubase mixdown, the interface is terrible, they managed to take as much screen real estate as possible while still keeping everything very hard to read.

I can not think of a single good thing about it, which is a shame since their libraries are very good. I have a lot of their Kontakt stuff and not even if they pay me I'll downgrade them to play!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
magenta
member


Joined: 02/09/01
Posts: 97
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684567 - 03/12/08 05:52 PM
I sooooooo agree.....
I bought th EW ultimate Pianos and have tried for 4 months to get it working in LOgic 7 on my G5....... its rubbish and the support is rubbish
Drops out all the time,,,, have got all the latest versions.
....a wast of £250........will never buy from them again....
ROB


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684570 - 03/12/08 05:59 PM
Quote Paul Farrer:

Mac Pro running logic 8 on leopard. PLAY makes logic crash every 2 minutes.
Anyone got any ideas?





PLAY IMO is the buggiest, most unstable sample playback engine I have ever had the misfortune to buy and try to use. Which PLAY libraries are you trying run Paul - SD2 perchance or worse still, Pianos?

Myself and a few colleagues have been having an extended public argument on a forum with the CEO of EWQL for the last 9 months about SD2, MOR and VOP. They all exhibit the same instability issues caused by a fundamental flaw with the PLAY engine.

The reality is that EWQL refuses to accept that PLAY has any flaws, bugs or is in any way unreliable, and asserts instead that we who are having problems are either, 1. imagining them, 2. don't know how to use a modern computer (I kid you not) or 3. that the specs of our computers are not up to snuff since SD2 uses eleventy gazillion samples per note. Their usual response to any criticism is to cite how many awards they have won for their samples, or which film composer has used their samples in the latest Hollywood blockbuster (again, I kid you not).

There's abosolutely no use whatever going through their customer support channels (that should be Victim Support BTW) and any mention of bugs on their own forums will get you banned.

I'll spare you any more gory details, but I'd bet you're having the same issues as we are (which of course don't exist or are as rare as rocking horse pooh).

Cheers


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Rousseau]
      #684574 - 03/12/08 06:02 PM
'ello Paul, good to see you pop your head up above the parapet again.

As above, Play is really rather buggy to say the least. Plenty of things you can try though. Do you still have my number? I'll be up on the hills later in the week so can swing by and help you swear at it if you like?

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Paul Farrer
member


Joined: 16/03/00
Posts: 155
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #684575 - 03/12/08 06:08 PM
The only libraries I am running in Play are VOP and Storm Drum 2. Both of which crash ALL THE TIME, so much so I always bounce down anything I do in PLAY and remove it asap.
I updated to the latest version of Play yesterday and it has made it worse, which I didn't think was even possible. I would love to upgrade my Symphonic Orchestra libraries but they only sell them for Play now. What a ridiculous state of affairs. I love the libraries but why should the front end be SO bad? Can't we get Apple to make EXS24 a bit more open to other libraries? *crosses fingers* *prays to Steve Jobs shrine*


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684588 - 03/12/08 06:41 PM
Love the sounds, hate the bloated buggy interface. Don't even attempt to run SD2 anymore and only occasionally give VOP a whirl.

On a related note, I got two of the funniest / most infuriating emails a couple of weeks ago from an online retailer in the US that I've dealt with in the past. This is his general mail out (2 parts) - read and weep......


Dear Friends,

I'm writing to speak directly to posts I'm seeing in various forums telling customers to think twice before they buy any EastWest PLAY library. This is not true.

All the EastWest PLAY libraries have been designed for 64bit PC and Mac systems with at least 8GB RAM.

On the PC, this means running under Vista or XP64. You need a motherboard that can handle a minimum 8GB RAM, or one that can hadle 16GB RAM but with 8GB installed. On the Mac, you need 8-16GB RAM. On the PC, the sequencing programs operating at 64bit are the newest version of Sonar and Nuendo. Cubase 4BETA is operating at 64bit. If you mix 32bit applications with 64bit applications the system will drop down to a 32bit level of operation. Because each company uses a different scheme for streaming samples off the hard drive, you need to assign one drive per companny. For example, if you have a lot of libraries with K2 players, then apply one drive to Kontakt only.

On the Mac, both Logic and DP6 are 32 bit, while the Mac itself is 64bit. With Digital Performer, PLAY will operate in multitimbral mode, with Logic, one instance per articulation (like the EXS24). On the new Mac Pros, you can get upto 32 instances using Logic.

Some users are experiencing issues because they're not installing their free PLAY updates. Once these updates are installed, PLAY is working fine on many systems.

As a reminder, the Buy 1 Get 1 Free sale ends November 30th.
http://www.truespec.com/play-1get-free-c-134.html

Blessings from,

Peter & Caroline Alexander
Alexander University, Inc.
www.truespec.com




and then, in case it wasn't clear enough,


Dear Friends,

One additional point. You can still use PLAY very effectively on Pentium 4 Systems, G5 systems, etc. You just get fewer instances.

Peter Alexander



Do you get the feeling EW are a little bit sensitive about their white elephant?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Paul Farrer
member


Joined: 16/03/00
Posts: 155
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #684593 - 03/12/08 07:00 PM
Well mine's an 8 core mac pro with 16GB of ram and I can't get two of the bastards running without the spinning beach-ball of death popping up every 2 minutes.

Edited by Paul Farrer (03/12/08 07:03 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684617 - 03/12/08 07:59 PM
Don't get me started on that email... so many factual inaccuracies it's untrue...

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
BenLD



Joined: 08/06/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Newbury
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684624 - 03/12/08 08:14 PM
Quote Paul Farrer:

I would love to upgrade my Symphonic Orchestra libraries but they only sell them for Play now.




Man, oh man, I'm in exactly the same boat and am constantly looking out for anyone who might be selling the NI Kompakt version of Platinum, which I foolishly failed to upgrade to before they took it off the market forever

I have been using MOR, Gypsy and Fab Four - I also got VOP free in one of their promotions but haven't installed it. Like everyone else, I love the sounds but they are so glitchy - I can usually manage one or two instruments at a time on my G5. I just use the violin in Gypsy, rock chugs and a lead guitar in MOR, that's about it. Try to use a bass or a drumkit at the same time and it's all over. With that kind of performance how are we supposed to trust it to run full orchestras?!

I hate the interface as well - why have that massive knob in the middle which is basically a distended metering section, massive knobs for totally secondary functions like ADT, and yet have not enough space to list all the articulations without scrolling? And within the articualtion list the individual volume controls are ridiculous

Basically I'm not surprised they giving them away in two-for-one deals even though the sounds are great. They say cryptic things like "works better on Intel Macs" and "we have a duty to produce products that utilize the power of the latest computers" - sure they can do that but they're leaving a sizeable chunk of the market out in the cold.

And if I had a Mac Pro with 16GB of RAM and it still didn't work, I'd be even more annoyed about, so you have my total sympathy

Ben


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: BenLD]
      #684634 - 03/12/08 08:30 PM
Funny.... I was slapped down by their support, and some other users for not running on a Mac.... as apparently it runs perfectly on Macs...... ROFL.

Apart from a couple of forum users elsewhere who claim to have had no issue whatsoever, I don't know of a single pro, let alone hobbyist who has anything but issues with Play.

A great shame - yet again EWQL have come out with some nice samples, yet in their haste to get away from Native Instruments have successfully and comprehensively shot themselves in the foot.

Begs the question how the collosal VSL library suddenly popped up with their own player way ahead of schedule then their host and now plugin suite, and it all just works, yet Play after 18 months on the market is still un-Play-able.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684648 - 03/12/08 09:02 PM
What I do find a bit puzzling is why the SOS reviews of PLAY - I think they're done by Dave Stewart though don't quote me on that - fail to mention any of these infuriating issues which seemingly afflict all PLAY libraries for both PC and Mac users.

It's all the more curious since I remember thinking that the same reviewer slated the VSL player for being buggy when virtually no one on the planet had had any problems with it at all.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Rousseau]
      #684678 - 03/12/08 09:54 PM
WITCH HUNT!!!!!


burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,bur n,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,bur n,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,burn,

But then have you ever read a review in SOS that was anything other than polite, middle of the road and full of bland platitudes? Usually knowledegably written, but anything approaching unequivocal criticism is unheard of.




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #684681 - 03/12/08 10:10 PM
errr, I can cite several examples of a real slating in the pages of SOS.

assorted monitors , a roland digital mixer, one or two mics, and various softwares, and some oddball processors, have had their sales careers abruptly slashed by a poor SOS review....


i recall one beuaty by Hugh...

" I cannot think of a single reason to recommend these monitors."

or words very close to that....


my advice, keep an old PPC machine to hand, and use the old NI based versions.....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
...................
member


Joined: 23/02/04
Posts: 781
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684699 - 03/12/08 10:44 PM
Play is horrible. I run it on a PC Q9450, xp with 4gb Ram, initially I had Goliath, it's a total pain. From day one it has always hung on the last moment of install, the point where it's all actually installed but the routine won't close. Irritating. Tech support said uninstall, clean register etc, this trick has worked once, but it still always wants to update although I have the latest version. It loses the reverbs for no reason, says I need to update, although I **have** the latest version . I added SD2, what a pain to get my PC to work around the glitchy install.
Love the sounds, but it's glitchy as a clicky thing in a box marked "clicks". Experimenting with different settings helps slightly, to the point where it clicks/pops when first loaded, then settles down, no idea why. I'm no novice, I am happy to tweak and everything else I seem get running like a dream, but this one just doesn't add up, whatever PC tweaks I make. The other day I had 6 instances running at once (a new record, that) including 4 droney sounds (usually very click prone) succesfully, showing CPU 10%, but the whole time I felt like it could all collapse at any moment...
Not to be trusted, which is a shame 'cos the sounds are great.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Cork, Ireland
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: ...................]
      #684708 - 03/12/08 10:59 PM
Quote Herewego:

Play is horrible. I run it on a PC Q9450, xp with 4gb Ram, initially I had Goliath, it's a total pain. From day one it has always hung on the last moment of install, the point where it's all actually installed but the routine won't close.




That's the problem I had, and it was solved by disabling all network connections. One of the moderators in the forum actually suggested this and it worked. He did it privately though, and of course they deleted my thread were I posted this, so I could never post a solution there for other people to see.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: _Nuno_]
      #684711 - 03/12/08 11:04 PM
Quote Nuno_:

Quote Herewego:

Play is horrible. I run it on a PC Q9450, xp with 4gb Ram, initially I had Goliath, it's a total pain. From day one it has always hung on the last moment of install, the point where it's all actually installed but the routine won't close.




That's the problem I had, and it was solved by disabling all network connections. One of the moderators in the forum actually suggested this and it worked. He did it privately though, and of course they deleted my thread were I posted this, so I could never post a solution there for other people to see.




Ah so there's a fix that will break things? So when their much vaunted and still not appeared "network" functionality appears it won't work because everyone will have disconnected their networks? What about those of us who use VSL's Vienna Ensemble for very nice, shiny and happy audio and MIDI over LAN? Or people like me who then use a second network connection for Euphonix EuCon?

Dear oh dear...

Shall I mention the "support" chap on the forum who told me I should only try and run Play on a 32-bit system with "minimum least 4Gb free RAM".... he didn't like it one bit when I pointed out this was a physical impossibility!?

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
...................
member


Joined: 23/02/04
Posts: 781
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: _Nuno_]
      #684725 - 03/12/08 11:38 PM
Hey Nuno thanks for the tip, duly noted


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
...................
member


Joined: 23/02/04
Posts: 781
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: _Nuno_]
      #684727 - 03/12/08 11:44 PM
Quote Nuno_:

of course they deleted my thread were I posted this, so I could never post a solution there for other people to see.




Here's one for the search engines...

Goliath Play install hang problem installation fail

Play won't install



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #684776 - 04/12/08 07:14 AM
Quote idris y draig:

errr, I can cite several examples of a real slating in the pages of SOS.

assorted monitors , a roland digital mixer, one or two mics, and various softwares, and some oddball processors, have had their sales careers abruptly slashed by a poor SOS review....


i recall one beuaty by Hugh...

" I cannot think of a single reason to recommend these monitors."

or words very close to that....





Can you calm my doubting heart and post some links to any reviews that become real slatings - I really want to believe it's true, but a little voice in the back of my head keeps saying it can't possibly be


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: ...................]
      #684778 - 04/12/08 07:19 AM
Quote Herewego:

Here's one for the search engines...

Goliath Play install hang problem installation fail

Play won't install







Sorry, didn't quite catch that Herewego - did you say

East West PLAY won't install?

.....or was it maybe.....

East West PLAY Quantum Leap won't install.

No, I think what you actually said afterall was

East West PLAY won't install.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
_Nuno_



Joined: 20/05/06
Posts: 804
Loc: Cork, Ireland
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #684794 - 04/12/08 08:50 AM
Quote redleicester:



Ah so there's a fix that will break things? So when their much vaunted and still not appeared "network" functionality appears it won't work because everyone will have disconnected their networks?




Actually, it's only during installation that this needs to be done, if you do have this problem, which I don't think everyone has.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 3032
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684837 - 04/12/08 10:58 AM
The whole company is in denial because that is the premise on which it is founded. They'd rather call you a liar than admit they made a mistake. I had an unpleasant experience with them a couple of years ago, so I'm not surprised at what's happening with Play. It comes from the top...

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt

Edited by Tomás Mulcahy (04/12/08 11:14 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684922 - 04/12/08 02:28 PM
Usually, I'm the first to bash a company for selling shoddy products, but I haven't had a single problem with Play/SD2, on both my MBP and Mac Pro-8. Why's that? Am I just lucky? Somehow, I find that hard to believe. I think it more likely that PLAY is particularly sensitive to the presence of incompatible 3rd party apps - at least on the Mac, dunno about PCs. Personally, I use tons of commercial apps, shareware an freeware. No probs whatsoever (touch wood).

(PS: Hi reid, here we go again! )


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Boomerang



Joined: 05/08/08
Posts: 2
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684931 - 04/12/08 02:53 PM
To say that Play is unstable would be the understatement of the century! It completely destroyed my G5. Even uninstalling SD2 did nothing. A complete clean install was required to get things up and running. What we, my Technician and I (thanks Dan), couldn't understand was, it essentially is only playing back MIDI loops and yet caused absolute havoc. It also shut down access to any other software on my computer!
My advice to anyone contemplating buying a Play driven plug in is don't do it and to East West I would say, go away and start again...
As someone has already pointed out I have bought SD2 and therefore the license, so cannot sell it. It will sit on my shelf until one day maybe someone will finally fix it


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
The Right To Arm
...

member


Joined: 11/08/04
Posts: 851
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #684932 - 04/12/08 02:58 PM
+1

Yep - same problems

Glitchy Playback
Crappy Interface – what really annoys me is the volume sliders - rubbish.
More than 2 instances – forget it.

I got the platinum orchestra for play and barely use it. I just stick with the Gold version in Kontakt (absolutely solid) and use the other samples as and when is necessary in Play - but essentially I try and avoid it.

Their support is awful: I had problems registering MOR and they responded after a week via email requesting I resubmit my query! Good job I managed to sort it myself because it was like talking to the cat.

The sounds are blooming fantastic – especially those basses in MOR!! Just a shame about PLAY

--------------------
Support your right to arm bears!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Len
member


Joined: 22/02/01
Posts: 276
Loc: London, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #684945 - 04/12/08 03:37 PM
I posted once on their forums a few years back asking if a licence transfer was possible (since I thought I would not want my copy of Silver after all since I wanted Gold). Got deleted immediately. The place is run by the bleedin' Gestapo. I really hate that muzzling of criticism and free speech by Doug Rogers and the moderators (and my post was not even critical, it was just a question!).

These guys are "head in sand" all day, and the mystery for me is why SOS continues to feature their products (and in this/last month's issue, them) without mentioning that many people have huge problems with their products. I bought Gold on Kontakt and that is great - bought the Play upgrade and am glad I have never installed it.

All in all, their arrogance is breathtaking.

So, SOS, what's the answer?

--------------------
www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Paul Farrer
member


Joined: 16/03/00
Posts: 155
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Len]
      #684996 - 04/12/08 04:59 PM
Well this week I have screaming deadlines with Gladiators, Dancing on Ice a Playstation 3 game and The Krypton Factor, so its the perfect time for it all to be acting like a Atari 520ST with a faulty diskdrive
:-(
I feel a 'Notes From The Deadline' rant coming....

Edited by Paul Farrer (04/12/08 05:06 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685028 - 04/12/08 05:54 PM
Quote Paul Farrer:

Well this week I have screaming deadlines with Gladiators, Dancing on Ice a Playstation 3 game and The Krypton Factor, so its the perfect time for it all to be acting like a Atari 520ST with a faulty diskdrive
:-(
I feel a 'Notes From The Deadline' rant coming....




ooooh the irony. Last month your short article coincided with a major interview with Doug Rogers in SOS... If only...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
shirkethic



Joined: 07/03/06
Posts: 269
Loc: Los Angeles
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685127 - 04/12/08 11:51 PM
Paul,

While I'm not sure what the prob is, for the sake of getting you up and running with Sd2, try deselecting "stream from disk" for every sound you have loaded. It's in the file menu I think under "current instrument".

You are then bypassing the disk streaming and hopefully that will help in the short term!

Cheers

Paul

--------------------
------------------
paul-thomson.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #685144 - 05/12/08 01:04 AM
Quote reid:



Can you calm my doubting heart and post some links to any reviews that become real slatings - I really want to believe it's true, but a little voice in the back of my head keeps saying it can't possibly be





http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/articles/maudiobx5.htm#2

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb02/articles/maudiosp5b.asp


neither of these gave a glowing report, and both products were basically sales flops as a result... and "updated" or withdrawn sooner than otherwise planned....

there are others , but i actually have work to do rather than spend the time i'd normally be sleeping in, digging out negative reviews for the unbeleiver..



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #685166 - 05/12/08 05:38 AM
Well, that's me told - I didn't realise Paul and Hugh could be so uncomprimising, so merciless, so, so......insulting!

Seriously though, thanks for pulling those reviews out of the past - neither's quite what you could call a 'slating' , but they're certainly to the point. Back on topic, it does seem bizarre that the Dave Stewart reviews made no reference whatsoever to the widespread difficulties that folks have been having around the world with the PLAY interface.

Dave Stewart is Nick Phoenix. (That can't be his real name, surely? He should be directing S.H.I.E.L.D, not poncing around with sample libraries)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #685179 - 05/12/08 08:41 AM
Quote reid:


Dave Stewart is Nick Phoenix. (That can't be his real name, surely? He should be directing S.H.I.E.L.D, not poncing around with sample libraries)






Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Stephen Parker



Joined: 28/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685214 - 05/12/08 10:38 AM
interesting thread..

as a distributor I am always interested in making sure the products I represent get as good a review as possible and there have been a number of occasions where SoS haven't been the kindest - but it's always in everyone's interests to see honest reviews where possible and you can always read between the lines.

and regarding EW PLAY - I was going to write a few things but after thinking about it, the comments above are plenty..

Steve Parker
Music Technology Manager
Arbiter Group


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685219 - 05/12/08 11:01 AM
My QLSO Platinum Complete Upgrade is still gathering dust, waiting to installed. Sounds like I won't be doing this for some time... if ever.

I had no idea Play wasn't recommended (or indeed, not designed) for use with 32bit Win XP systems. Niiice!

I am, sort of, tempted to install it anyway... if simply out of curiousity!

P

--------------------
Composer, Songwriter, Producer, Sound Designer
www.peterconnelly.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Len
member


Joined: 22/02/01
Posts: 276
Loc: London, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685266 - 05/12/08 01:00 PM
There's a 20 page (and counting) thread on this very issue on the Northern Sounds forum. I cannot see how EW can recover after this fiasco. If their entire business model has now shifted to PLAY, and the majority of people find that PLAY does not work, it's game over for them.

Two things are unforgiveable:

1. Advertising PLAY without warning that it will only work on a full 64 bit system (I can see false advertising lawsuits looming); and

2. Deleting all posts (and banning posters) on their forums which appear to criticise PLAY in general.

Goodbye EW - I'll continue to use (and love) my EWQL Gold on Kontakt, but that's the last time I'm spending money with you.

--------------------
www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
onesecondglance



Joined: 02/01/08
Posts: 2140
Loc: Reading, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Stephen Parker]
      #685269 - 05/12/08 01:06 PM
Quote Stephen Parker:

and regarding EW PLAY - I was going to write a few things but after thinking about it, the comments above are plenty...




ouch!

--------------------
hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 3032
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Len]
      #685271 - 05/12/08 01:14 PM
Quote Len:


1. Advertising PLAY without warning that it will only work on a full 64 bit system (I can see false advertising lawsuits looming)



They seem to make a habit of that. The issue I had was with a sale item that was not as advertised, and I was accused of all sorts of things when I pointed this out.

They're also listing past clients of Cello Studio as if they were clients of the current studio.

Seems like a case of megalomania to me...

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
...................
member


Joined: 23/02/04
Posts: 781
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Len]
      #685277 - 05/12/08 01:22 PM
Quote Len:

1. Advertising PLAY without warning that it will only work on a full 64 bit system (I can see false advertising lawsuits looming)




Mine works (albeit after much hassle - see above) on XP 32 bit. They do say it will on their site.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: ...................]
      #685278 - 05/12/08 01:32 PM
I think one of my overriding frustrations was that it was buggy on day one, which in this day and age is understandable - after all, rare indeed is the product that just works out of the box on every possible software/hardware combo, so for that they can be forgiven. However, many raised issues with support, or on the EW forum, or on other forums, to which the standard answer was "it's your system" or "it's your hardware", or "it's your problem"...

Yet with successive updates over the last 18 months it has slowly become more stable and potentially even usable for more than 4 minutes without crashing, and will actually play back sounds.... without any changes to hardware or software configurations....

Now I'm not a software designer, but six or more updates over that period (I've long since lost count), and many of the issues which I was assured were entirely my problem and down to me having an "inadequate" system (after all, a Q6700, 4Gb, multiple HDs and so on is just poo), have been resolved, which surely would imply it might just have a teensy-weensy bit to do with the Play plugin, and be nothing to do with my puny DAW?

Extremely frustrating.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #685290 - 05/12/08 02:01 PM
Quote redleicester:

... after all, rare indeed is the product that just works out of the box on every possible software / hardware combo,




Which begs me to wonder why the heck an efficient form of standardisation isn't put into effect to minimise this. Compatibility issues are becoming the norm and spiralling out of control... or at least they will be if nothing is actioned NOW.

Everything should be built to protocol that will work universally, in a way that MIDI was devised back in the early 80's. If component manufactures worked together and stuck to standards, life would be a LOT simpler for s/w developers.

Slightly OT, I know... but needed to be said.

Cheers,
Peter

--------------------
Composer, Songwriter, Producer, Sound Designer
www.peterconnelly.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17811
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #685298 - 05/12/08 02:13 PM
Quote idris y draig:

errr, I can cite several examples of a real slating in the pages of SOS.




Here's one from me:

www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/articles/staudio.htm

"Within a couple of minutes of initial WAV playback auditioning, my ears were telling me that something was wrong at the bass end... ...low frequencies were seriously lacking, being 0.5dB down at 120Hz, and -3dB at 45Hz. ...ST Audio soon confirmed my findings, and reported that the problem was again simply due to unsuitable capacitor values being used, and was easily corrected.

From serial number HOON0315 onwards more suitable values will be used, and all remaining units in the field will be recalled."

What really tickled me at the time was the manufacturer initially claiming that I must be wrong, since this unit had already been favourably reviewed in two other magazines


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Paul Farrer
member


Joined: 16/03/00
Posts: 155
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #685310 - 05/12/08 02:58 PM
Glad to see I'm not the only one.
It can be a pretty lonely business locked in a room with all this technology particularly when it doesn't work as you expect. However...
I will restate how much I love the sounds themselves and its 'ALMOST' worth buying a PLAY soundware product and spending a few weeks sampling them into the EXS 24 so they work as you expect. When will manufacturers realize they don't need to re-invent the wheel with their front ends? For example the first EWSO library originally sat in the stand alone Kompakt player. Which doesn't work on intel macs, so when I upgraded my mac I had to invest in Kontakt in order to play the sounds. Fair enough, but 12 moths later we are all being forced to move to PLAY- a front end that simply is not good enough in my opinion. When I load an empty new track and insert a single instance of PLAY I get a huge white block where the plug in should be. Clicking on it resolves this but I have simply never got more than two or three PLAY's working at once without a complete crash. I have cash waiting to invest in loads more EWQL soundware but I simply can't as long as they insist on forcing PLAY on us.
SORT IT OUT.
void(0)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: ...................]
      #685313 - 05/12/08 03:04 PM
Quote Herewego:

Quote Len:

1. Advertising PLAY without warning that it will only work on a full 64 bit system (I can see false advertising lawsuits looming)




Mine works (albeit after much hassle - see above) on XP 32 bit. They do say it will on their site.




Matters little, I have thus far tried it on XP32 with 4Gb with and without the /3GB switch, XPP x64 with 8Gb RAM, Vista64 with 8Gb of RAM and all have shared a common theme, which wasn't a terribly tuneful one.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685319 - 05/12/08 03:24 PM
Quote Paul Farrer:

When will manufacturers realize they don't need to re-invent the wheel with their front ends?




They obviously did it for a reason, and we don't know what the deals with NI were - it could be that renegotiating a deal to bundle a Kontakt player became cost-prohibitive. I know NI annoyed a lot of people around the UB transition time by not offering UB versions of Kompakt, and forcing third-party soundware developers onto a new deal with a later engine version, and I've a feeling the costs went up a lot - there were a lot of transitions away from Kompakt players at that time, iirc.

However, my view on Play (and I haven't used it, or had any personal experience with it) was that it was almost *guaranteed* to cause issues for some time.

A sample playback engine in itself is not a particularly hard thing to develop, but a really good one, with a lot of internal playback features, large-memory and streaming support, across multiple plugin-formats from, and this is the key, *a company that has no experience developing audio software* - well, it's going to have kinks.

Kontakt is a fairly mature piece of software from a company with a lot of experience developing audio plugins and engines, and is reasonably solid. EW have either had to contract out to external developers, or buy in development talent to build the platform. I don't know which, but in either case, building these engines, and basing the future of the company on them, is a pretty big task.

Any company making the transition from soundware to software is going to have kinks, and customers should bear this in mind when getting tempted by shiny new gui's from soundware companies, until the products are tried, tested and proven solid.

The biggest annoyance with all this is not the fact that the product itself may have issues, hey, nobody's perfect, software has bugs and these things are complex - it's the attitude of the company that really matters. If customers are reassured that these issues are being worked on and will be resolved, it inspires confidence.

Alas, the feedback from the support side of EW, as evidenced by many posts here and elsewhere over the years, paints a rather dreary picture of how much their customers are valued, and does not inspire confidence that these issues will ever be resolved.

It sounds to me like EW need to step it up a bit, at least in how some of these issues are being treated on the user side...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685323 - 05/12/08 03:35 PM
It has to be said, after reading this thread there is no way I will buy any EW product (and my studio is probably in the market for some decent orchestral samples right now).

Their zealous purging of all criticism from their own forums is not going to change the facts.

Surely samples - which are only a bunch of little audio files - can be, and should be, offered for multiple formats (such as Logic's EXS24, Kontakt and the rest).

What's currently happening is a bit like Coldplay putting out a new album which only runs on Sony CD players. In other words, barking mad.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #685334 - 05/12/08 04:01 PM
Quote Steve Hill:


What's currently happening is a bit like Coldplay putting out a new album which only runs on Sony CD players. In other words, barking mad.





Barking mad? Nah - small favour to the world, more like.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
adrian_k



Joined: 30/01/03
Posts: 1743
Loc: Gloucestershire
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: desmond]
      #685337 - 05/12/08 04:08 PM
@ desmond - thanks for saying all that, it's exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't be bothered to type ;0 .

When I read the SOS article I thought it unusual to say the least that a music company - not even an engineering company - decided to write something as tricky as a sample player (simple in concept, but it HAS to work in real time within a range of unpredictable system conditions, on multiple platforms). I had a quick shudder and thought "glad I don't work there - they'll be learning how to make it stable until release 3".

Then this thread popped up and it seems EW have compounded the issue through poor customer relations.

It doesn't have to be this way. In the early days of the liquid mix I couldn't get it to work with Sonar. Both Focusrite and Cakewalk handled things very well (Focusrite especially), recognised the issues, avoided finger pointing, and engaged with the people having the problems to diagnose the issue. I think it took them about 6 weeks to put out fixes - pretty good. And they didn't delete posts about the problem from forums either.

Sigh

--------------------
getting better all the time..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: adrian_k]
      #685341 - 05/12/08 04:18 PM
Quote adrian_k:



When I read the SOS article I thought it unusual to say the least that a music company - not even an engineering company - decided to write something as tricky as a sample player (simple in concept, but it HAS to work in real time within a range of unpredictable system conditions, on multiple platforms). I had a quick shudder and thought "glad I don't work there - they'll be learning how to make it stable until release 3".





Therein lies the rub - VSL did precisely this exercise a year earlier than EW. And it works. Mac and 32 and 64bit PC, and it's been so successful they have subsequently released their own plug-in specific host which features built-in audio and MIDI over LAN, a suite of 64-bit plugins and now have annouced that the next version of the host will support 3rd-party plugins too....

All from a sample developer....

As you say, EW's challenge was immense, the learning curve collosal, but others have done it and succeeded.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #685346 - 05/12/08 04:30 PM
Quote redleicester:

Therein lies the rub - VSL did precisely this exercise a year earlier than EW. And it works.

All from a sample developer....




I'm not saying it's impossible. Spectrasonics have also transitioned from being a soundware developer to a software company as well. And Eric will tell you I'm sure that that path hasn't exactly been trivially easy...

There's a right way to do it and a wrong way. And potentially alienating your customers when your products aren't right isn't the right way...

Especially when I keep seeing press releases about how EW have bought expensive studio facilities, and have every amp ever made, and all this other stuff, indicating that they are making quite a bit of money - some of which doesn't seem to be being channelled back into software engineering resource (of course, that's conjecture only, and may be completely innaccurate, but...)



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: desmond]
      #685352 - 05/12/08 04:47 PM
Quote desmond:

Quote redleicester:

Therein lies the rub - VSL did precisely this exercise a year earlier than EW. And it works.

All from a sample developer....




I'm not saying it's impossible. Spectrasonics have also transitioned from being a soundware developer to a software company as well. And Eric will tell you I'm sure that that path hasn't exactly been trivially easy...

There's a right way to do it and a wrong way. And potentially alienating your customers when your products aren't right isn't the right way...






Aye that's what I meant - it is difficult, it is fraught with difficulty, but others have made it, and others have supported their users through it, which as you rightly say seems to be fundamentally where EWQL have come unstuck irrespective of whether their player is a bit shoddy or downright disfunctional.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
BenLD



Joined: 08/06/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Newbury
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #685356 - 05/12/08 05:11 PM
Quote redleicester:



Therein lies the rub - VSL did precisely this exercise a year earlier than EW. And it works. Mac and 32 and 64bit PC, and it's been so successful they have subsequently released their own plug-in specific host which features built-in audio and MIDI over LAN, a suite of 64-bit plugins and now have annouced that the next version of the host will support 3rd-party plugins too....

All from a sample developer....

As you say, EW's challenge was immense, the learning curve collosal, but others have done it and succeeded.




Yeah, VSL is beginning to look like an increasingly attractive option, especially when I get my Mac Pro and move to a two computer setup - could be time to make the switch...

B


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: BenLD]
      #685371 - 05/12/08 05:47 PM
Quote BenLD:

Quote redleicester:



Therein lies the rub - VSL did precisely this exercise a year earlier than EW. And it works. Mac and 32 and 64bit PC, and it's been so successful they have subsequently released their own plug-in specific host which features built-in audio and MIDI over LAN, a suite of 64-bit plugins and now have annouced that the next version of the host will support 3rd-party plugins too....

All from a sample developer....

As you say, EW's challenge was immense, the learning curve collosal, but others have done it and succeeded.




Yeah, VSL is beginning to look like an increasingly attractive option, especially when I get my Mac Pro and move to a two computer setup - could be time to make the switch...

B




Indeed. And of course it sounds way way better anyway.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685532 - 06/12/08 06:12 AM
Perhaps it would be a good idea to start searching for common factors, as to why PLAY doesn't work for some people. Personally, I have used PLAY/SD2 with all of my recent projects (such as radio jingles) without as much as a single glitch. On my Mac Pro-8, I use Logic 8 and simultaneously Drumcore/Rewire and Rax in Rosetta mode. Plug-ins by Waves, Flux, URS, PSP, NI, MusicLab, Synthogy, Expert Sleepers, plus shareware/freeware. OS 10.5. I also have Macaroni, SMARTReporter, MenuMeters and smcFanControl running in the background. The same goes for my MBP, with the exception of smcFanControl.

I wonder if there is a preference setting in either PLAY or OS X that causes trouble for some people. Alternatively, there might be a background process that interferes with PLAY, such as internet or network connectivity, or the (firewire) audio interface (I use an RME PCIe/Digiface). Also, I wouldn't rule out USB devices, such as mice, printers, or midi interfaces.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Paul Farrer
member


Joined: 16/03/00
Posts: 155
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685536 - 06/12/08 07:28 AM
I think its a great idea.
But given the number of possible things that might potentially conflict with it (audio units, preferences, usb devices etc etc) how much of a detective job could that be?
Interestingly you are the second person to have mentioned running a stable PLAY system using a non-firewire audio interface. It CAN'T be that can it?
And if it is why aren't we told to avoid firewire systems with PLAY - or even better why after all this time haven't they fixed it?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685537 - 06/12/08 07:52 AM
Yes, there might be some detective work involved, but I'd say it's worth it - SD2 sounds fantastic.

Could the firewire interface be the culprit? I don't know, but it's easy enough to find out. Disconnect your audio interface, and use your Mac's internal audio (which is how I currently use my MBP).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685538 - 06/12/08 08:05 AM
Quote Paul Farrer:


And if it is why aren't we told to avoid firewire systems with PLAY - or even better why after all this time haven't they fixed it?





Becuase it's not our PLAY system that's wrong, it's YYYYYOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU - ALL OF YOU!!!!! All of you with your stinking PCs and Macs, incorrectly set up and full of foul fripperies like mice, monitors and QWERTY keyboards!!!!! It's not US - we're PERFECT and our software is BEAUTIFUL!**^&!!! You're all against us, you stinking little fuckers using your 'oh-I'm-so-perfect-because-I-was-designed-in-Austria' bits of software. AAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!<><>%!!!! What's Austria ever done for the world? Stollen and Mozart, that's IT!!!! BUt we've given you StrümDrum, Voices of Poisson and Gypsy! All [ ****** ] amazing!!! Well, not Gypsy, that's true - but it's GOT A NICE COVER!&^!!! Do you think we bought Cello Studios just so we could sit around and soak up the atmosphere? AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Don't mention Atmosphere!!!!! That smug little [ ****** ] Eric Persing and his [ ****** ] frog designed front end!!!! I HATE HIM!!!! Why did he get it to work first time and we can't??!!???? HE's sold a billion units of his mincing bits of code and IT WORKS!!!!! GGGRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! You never see his software on 24/7/12/365 sale, two for one offers, 40% off til the end of time do you! DO YOU!!????!!!??? NO!!!! Of course not - because he doesn't have to! It works!! People buy it because it WORKS!!! People like him BECAUSE IT WORKS!!!! He doesn't have to dump on his clients when they complain BECAUSE IT WORKS!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




















i want my mummy


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #685539 - 06/12/08 08:43 AM
Quote reid:

Quote Paul Farrer:


And if it is why aren't we told to avoid firewire systems with PLAY - or even better why after all this time haven't they fixed it?





Becuase it's not our PLAY system that's wrong, it's YYYYYOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU - ALL OF YOU!!!!! All of you with your stinking PCs and Macs, incorrectly set up and full of foul fripperies like mice, monitors and QWERTY keyboards!!!!! It's not US - we're PERFECT and our software is BEAUTIFUL!**^&!!! You're all against us, you stinking little fuckers using your 'oh-I'm-so-perfect-because-I-was-designed-in-Austria' bits of software. AAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!<><>%!!!! What's Austria ever done for the world? Stollen and Mozart, that's IT!!!! BUt we've given you StrümDrum, Voices of Poisson and Gypsy! All [ ****** ] amazing!!! Well, not Gypsy, that's true - but it's GOT A NICE COVER!&^!!! Do you think we bought Cello Studios just so we could sit around and soak up the atmosphere? AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Don't mention Atmosphere!!!!! That smug little [ ****** ] Eric Persing and his [ ****** ] frog designed front end!!!! I HATE HIM!!!! Why did he get it to work first time and we can't??!!???? HE's sold a billion units of his mincing bits of code and IT WORKS!!!!! GGGRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! You never see his software on 24/7/12/365 sale, two for one offers, 40% off til the end of time do you! DO YOU!!????!!!??? NO!!!! Of course not - because he doesn't have to! It works!! People buy it because it WORKS!!! People like him BECAUSE IT WORKS!!!! He doesn't have to dump on his clients when they complain BECAUSE IT WORKS!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




















i want my mummy







Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685553 - 06/12/08 09:47 AM
Quote Tui:

Yes, there might be some detective work involved, but I'd say it's worth it - SD2 sounds fantastic.

Could the firewire interface be the culprit? I don't know, but it's easy enough to find out. Disconnect your audio interface, and use your Mac's internal audio (which is how I currently use my MBP).





With respect Tui, it's got nothing to do with firewire, USB, global warming, aliens, Sarah Palin, or even Gordon Clown selling off our gold reserves, just good old fashioned programing ineptitude. PLAY was released without proper quality control and testing. Rigourous beta testing would have revealed these issues; it is as simple as that. EWQL dropped the ball...

I've had two of my game coders look at it and their diagnosis is memory leakage at a very low level (which in normal speak means crap coding). They also said that disk access streaming in PLAY is byzantine.

We're still waiting for it to be fixed 9 months after release.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685600 - 06/12/08 12:37 PM
With respect Rousseau, if you and your game coders are so sure what it is, why don't you get cracking and fix it then? The fact of the matter is, some people use PLAY day in, day out, without any problems. I happen to be one of them. Clearly, PLAY isn't broken for all users, but only for a certain percentage. How high that figure might be, I have no idea, but that's immaterial. PLAY works for me, on two machines, multiple instances, different sample rates, 100% of the time.

I tried to help Paul Farrer by listing what equipment I use. I hope that this helps him with figuring out what precisely it is that conflicts with PLAY in his set-up.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 3032
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685606 - 06/12/08 12:47 PM
Tui, that would require Mr. Rogers and co to release the code to them... nuf said.

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685610 - 06/12/08 12:52 PM
Quote Tui:

Clearly, PLAY isn't broken for all users, but only for a certain percentage. How high that figure might be, I have no idea, but that's immaterial.




It's not immaterial. Even if it's only 2% (and I suspect it's a lot more), how long do you think say a car manufacturer would last if 2% of its products failed? Or how about an aircraft manufacturer?

They get a bad reputation, people stop buying their products, they go bust, and then the people who have already bought their products have no support. Fear of that happening meanwhile stops people buying their products.

There's only one answer in the MBA textbooks: acknowledge the problem, fix it, offer refunds/compensation/freebies, and do it all FAST.

Denial is corporate suicide.

These people have a crap CEO. You should be worried.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #685616 - 06/12/08 01:14 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

Quote Tui:

Clearly, PLAY isn't broken for all users, but only for a certain percentage. How high that figure might be, I have no idea, but that's immaterial.




It's not immaterial.




No it is. I was trying to make the point that, as long as there is a single user out there who runs PLAY without problems, a blanket condemnation is simply inappropriate.

I am also puzzled by the general tone on this thread. Are we here to help each other resolve tech issues, or do we come here to rubbish certain developers/manufacturers/distributors?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Agamemnon
member


Joined: 24/03/04
Posts: 76
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #685617 - 06/12/08 01:15 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

Quote Tui:

Clearly, PLAY isn't broken for all users, but only for a certain percentage. How high that figure might be, I have no idea, but that's immaterial.




It's not immaterial. Even if it's only 2% (and I suspect it's a lot more), how long do you think say a car manufacturer would last if 2% of its products failed? Or how about an aircraft manufacturer?

They get a bad reputation, people stop buying their products, they go bust, and then the people who have already bought their products have no support. Fear of that happening meanwhile stops people buying their products.

There's only one answer in the MBA textbooks: acknowledge the problem, fix it, offer refunds/compensation/freebies, and do it all FAST.

Denial is corporate suicide.

These people have a crap CEO. You should be worried.




Agreed, and if that CEO is paying attention to what's being said on the net (if not someone please tell him/her), if he wants the likes of myself to consider buying his company's products in the future then he should be drafting a suitable statement v soon. Or are the lawyers advising him that he cannot infer that there are problems (there are no 'problems' - only 'features'....)?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 3032
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685640 - 06/12/08 02:19 PM
Tui, you can't be serious. Are you?

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685644 - 06/12/08 02:30 PM
Sure I'm serious.

Somehow, this thread seems to live in a parallel universe, where EW is the worst company ever, none of their software works, and I should be worried (?) because of their CEO. Huh?

In the real world, lots of people use PLAY quite successfully, and post on forums about it. One random example I came across today:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/209743-quantum-leap-pianos. html


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685651 - 06/12/08 02:44 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote Steve Hill:

Quote Tui:

Clearly, PLAY isn't broken for all users, but only for a certain percentage. How high that figure might be, I have no idea, but that's immaterial.




It's not immaterial.




No it is. I was trying to make the point that, as long as there is a single user out there who runs PLAY without problems, a blanket condemnation is simply inappropriate.

I am also puzzled by the general tone on this thread. Are we here to help each other resolve tech issues, or do we come here to rubbish certain developers/manufacturers/distributors?




Tui, the general tone on this thread reflects people's experiences dealing with that company's products and representatives - nothing more, nothing less.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Agamemnon]
      #685654 - 06/12/08 02:54 PM
Quote Agamemnon:

Quote Steve Hill:

Quote Tui:

Clearly, PLAY isn't broken for all users, but only for a certain percentage. How high that figure might be, I have no idea, but that's immaterial.




It's not immaterial. Even if it's only 2% (and I suspect it's a lot more), how long do you think say a car manufacturer would last if 2% of its products failed? Or how about an aircraft manufacturer?

They get a bad reputation, people stop buying their products, they go bust, and then the people who have already bought their products have no support. Fear of that happening meanwhile stops people buying their products.

There's only one answer in the MBA textbooks: acknowledge the problem, fix it, offer refunds/compensation/freebies, and do it all FAST.

Denial is corporate suicide.

These people have a crap CEO. You should be worried.




Agreed, and if that CEO is paying attention to what's being said on the net (if not someone please tell him/her), if he wants the likes of myself to consider buying his company's products in the future then he should be drafting a suitable statement v soon. Or are the lawyers advising him that he cannot infer that there are problems (there are no 'problems' - only 'features'....)?




Agamemnon, what we're saying has been said directly and indeed repeatedly to the CEO in public on a forum for the past 9 months, so he is well aware of this.

Cheers


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #685669 - 06/12/08 03:54 PM
Quote reid:


Becuase it's not our PLAY system that's wrong, it's YYYYYOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU - ALL OF YOU!!!!! All of you with your stinking PCs and Macs, incorrectly set up and full of foul fripperies like mice, monitors and QWERTY keyboards!!!!! It's not US - we're PERFECT and our software is BEAUTIFUL!**^&!!! You're all against us, you stinking little fuckers using your 'oh-I'm-so-perfect-because-I-was-designed-in-Austria' bits of software. AAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!<><>%!!!! What's Austria ever done for the world? Stollen and Mozart, that's IT!!!! BUt we've given you StrümDrum, Voices of Poisson and Gypsy! All [ ****** ] amazing!!! Well, not Gypsy, that's true - but it's GOT A NICE COVER!&^!!! Do you think we bought Cello Studios just so we could sit around and soak up the atmosphere? AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Don't mention Atmosphere!!!!! That smug little [ ****** ] Eric Persing and his [ ****** ] frog designed front end!!!! I HATE HIM!!!! Why did he get it to work first time and we can't??!!???? HE's sold a billion units of his mincing bits of code and IT WORKS!!!!! GGGRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! You never see his software on 24/7/12/365 sale, two for one offers, 40% off til the end of time do you! DO YOU!!????!!!??? NO!!!! Of course not - because he doesn't have to! It works!! People buy it because it WORKS!!! People like him BECAUSE IT WORKS!!!! He doesn't have to dump on his clients when they complain BECAUSE IT WORKS!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i want my mummy




Now look here young man. I hold you personally responsible for my new hernia.



--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Wonks
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6367
Loc: Reading, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685674 - 06/12/08 04:10 PM
As PLAY seems to work for some people and not others, have we come across the software equivalent of Behringer? All we need now is for EW to reduce their prices to Behringer levels and people will buy PLAY in vast quantities.

The flaw in my argument is that if a bit of Behringer kit goes wrong in the warranty period, you'll get another one to replace it that works (for a while anyway), but if PLAY doesn't work on your system, a replacement copy of the software isn't going to make it any better.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Wonks]
      #685684 - 06/12/08 04:28 PM
Quote Wonkey Wabbit:

As PLAY seems to work for some people and not others, have we come across the software equivalent of Behringer? All we need now is for EW to reduce their prices to Behringer levels and people will buy PLAY in vast quantities.

The flaw in my argument is that if a bit of Behringer kit goes wrong in the warranty period, you'll get another one to replace it that works (for a while anyway), but if PLAY doesn't work on your system, a replacement copy of the software isn't going to make it any better.




Well the EWQL buy one get one free deal has been extended, they've got a 40% pre christmas sale on, so perhaps there's something in your comparison


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Paul Farrer
member


Joined: 16/03/00
Posts: 155
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685692 - 06/12/08 04:48 PM
Wow I seem to have started World War III.
I agree with some of you, software that doesn't work sucks golf balls through a garden hose, and it is of course completely unacceptable that we should even be trying to do the detective work of what makes PLAY work and what makes it crash. However lets stop trashing the company or its employees personally and keep the thread focused on digging ourselves out of the hole. Hopefully it will shame the PLAY people into getting their act together. The nastier and more personal and spurious we are the greater the chances they will get stroppy and force SOS to remove the thread. Which benefits none of us.
Does this make me a huge cotton candy assed pussy cat? probably, but just trying to be pragmatic and get my system happy.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685695 - 06/12/08 04:54 PM
Quote Tui:

Perhaps it would be a good idea to start searching for common factors, as to why PLAY doesn't work for some people. Personally, I have used PLAY/SD2 with all of my recent projects (such as radio jingles) without as much as a single glitch. On my Mac Pro-8, I use Logic 8 and simultaneously Drumcore/Rewire and Rax in Rosetta mode. Plug-ins by Waves, Flux, URS, PSP, NI, MusicLab, Synthogy, Expert Sleepers, plus shareware/freeware. OS 10.5. I also have Macaroni, SMARTReporter, MenuMeters and smcFanControl running in the background. The same goes for my MBP, with the exception of smcFanControl.

I wonder if there is a preference setting in either PLAY or OS X that causes trouble for some people. Alternatively, there might be a background process that interferes with PLAY, such as internet or network connectivity, or the (firewire) audio interface (I use an RME PCIe/Digiface). Also, I wouldn't rule out USB devices, such as mice, printers, or midi interfaces.





Okay, lets run with this then:

I have had Play glitch, fall over, appear to operate but produce no sound, open a blank plugin window, and crash the DAW (all/and/or combination of the above) on the following systems:

System 1 (DAW):
Asus P5B Deluxe
Intel Q6700
8Gb RAM Crucial PC6400
1x 75gb WD Raptor SATA System HD
2x 500Gb Samsung F1 SATA HD
2x 750Gb Samsung F1 SATA HD
RME HDSP MADI PCI / ADI-648
EuCon
TC Electronic Powercore Firewire
UAD2
PS/2 Keyboard
Kensington Orbit Pro Trackball
2x Nvidia 7600GS GPUs driving 2x 20" and 2x 24" TFT displays

OS - Hardware multiboot - XPP 32 / XPP 32 with 3Gb Switch/ XPP x64 / Vista64 Ultimate


System 2 (DAW2):
Asus P5Q Deluxe
Intel Q9550
8Gb RAM Corsair XMS2 6400
1x 75gb WD Raptor SATA System HD
2x 500Gb Samsung F1 SATA HD
2x 750Gb Samsung F1 SATA HD
RME HDSP MADI PCI / ADI-648
EuCon
TC Electronic Powercore Firewire
UAD2
PS/2 Keyboard
Kensington Orbit Pro Trackball
2x Nvidia 7600GS GPUs driving 2x 20" and 2x 24" TFT displays

OS - Hardware multiboot - XPP 32 / XPP 32 with 3Gb Switch/ XPP x64 / Vista64 Ultimate


System 3 (x2 Slave):
Asus P4C800 Deluxe
P4 3.2GHz
4Gb RAM
1x 74Gb WD Raptor SATA System Drive
2x 500Gb Samsung F1 SATA Drive in RAID0
2x 500Gb Samsung F1 SATA Drives
RME HDSP 9652 PCI
EuCon
PS/2 Keyboard
Kensington Orbit Pro Trackball
Nvidia 5200LE GPU driving 20" TFT

OS - Hardware multiboot - XPP 32 / XPP 32 with 3Gb Switch

Cubase 4.5 and Standalone Play
Vienna Ensemble running Brass / Woodwind / Percussion / Keyboards


System 4 (x2 Slave):

Asus P5DW2 Deluxe
Intel Core 2.66
8Gb RAM
1x 74Gb WD Raptor SATA System Drive
2x 500Gb Samsung F1 SATA Drives
RME HDSP 9632 PCI
EuCon
PS/2 Keyboard
Kensington Orbit Pro Trackball
Nvidia 7200GS GPU driving 20" TFT

OS - Hardware multiboot - XPP 32 / XPP 32 with 3Gb Switch/ XPP x64

VSL Vienna Ensemble 2 Running Strings sections (solo and ensemble)



System 5 (x2 DAW):
Mactintosh MacPro Quad 3GHz, 16Gb RAM, 4x 1Tb HD, MacOS Leopard / Tiger / Tabbycat
UAD1
RME HDSP MADI PCIe + ADI-648 / MOTU Traveller / Internal Audio via ADI-192
2x ATI GPU of some flavour driving 3x 30" TFT displays
Apple metal flat keyboard thing (TM)
Apple Puny mouse (TM)


For the sake of brevity, I have not bothered listing any and all plugins, merely an off-the-top-of-my-head list of those I commonly use.

The two DAW machines are to be found running the following:

Nuendo 4.2.2 + NEK
Sonnox Suite
Vienna Suite
Altiverb & Speakerphone
Komplete 2, 3, 4, 5
EWQL Play versions of SD2, Orchestra Platinum Plus, Goliath
NI Komplete 2, 3, 4, 5
Spectrasonics Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, Atmosphere, Trilogy
Project SAM TrueStrike
Synthogy Ivory, Italian Grand and Upright

Notable Konktat 2/3 Libraries:
SD1
Colossus
SO Platinum
Symphonic Choirs
RA
Kirk Hunter
Symphobia
Chris Hein Guitars
BelaDMedia - Anthology 1 & 2, Lyrical Distortion 1 & 2, Tenor, Retro Flute, Diva and Diva Extended
Art Vista VGP 1 and 2
Acoustic Legends
Cinesamples Harp, CineToms and Drums of War
Heavyocity Evolve
Soniccouture Hang Drum, Mbira, GuZheng, Bowed Piano
Countless converted Akai / Roland / Kurzweil libraries


Network Spec:
It is notable each machine is running with 2x Gigabit network ports, with each motherboard having been chosen expressly for this purpose being as they're equipped with pairs as standard.

Inside the studio cloud, we have two physical subnets:

DMZ1 - EuCon specific
Sonicwall Router
Netgear GS724TP 24-port switch, no jumbo frame, full managed QoS, no packet inspection.

DMZ2 - MOL / File transfer stacks
Cisco 1721 Router
Netgear GS724TP 24-port switch, jumbo frame (7418 frame size), managed QoS for MoL.
2x Infrant/Netgear ReadyNAS 2Tb
2x Buffalo Terastation Pro 1Tb
1x Canon Pixma 970MP Network Scanner/Printer

The GS724TP here then takes a gigabit fibre uplink to the main subnet outside of the DMZ, via a third GS724 and to a Netgear DG834PN Router and ADSL Modem.

As a result of this simple architecture, all of the subnets are entirel isolated from one another with no packet or frame collision, time critical packets are managed via QoS, and the DMZs can be opened up individually to the main WAN and allowed free reign for updates / downloads as and when needed, but are otherwise entirely cut off from the rest of the WAN and the world, thus simply and easily negating the need for any further firewalls / anti-virus etc.

Now for the sake of clarity, I should point out all of those systems bar the Macintoshes were handbuilt, and the older 8Gb machines are currently in comfortable service as VSL Vienna Ensemble Slaves and regularly run up to 7.2Gb of samples loaded into Ensemble without so much as breaking a sweat. ALL of the systems use MIDI-over-LAN, and ALL of the systems use EuCon. It should also be noted for those who haven't already worked it out, DAW2 was the replacement upgrade for DAW1, and what was DAW1 is now another VSL/Cubase slave, still exhibiting the same issues...

So that's 8 systems I have personal experience of which cannot run Play in anything that resembles a reliable and stable manner, much less be relied upon under time-critical and screaming-paying-client-OMFG-I'm-going-to-die pressure. The rig is used for music for film, tv, theatre, computer games and for me to fart into microphones for peurile pleasure. Oh, and for my three year old to wander in and bash notes at random.





PS - For my detractors amongst those who know me, I should also be at pains to point out the Macs are not mine.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685743 - 06/12/08 09:42 PM
Quote Paul Farrer:

Wow I seem to have started World War III.
I agree with some of you, software that doesn't work sucks golf balls through a garden hose, and it is of course completely unacceptable that we should even be trying to do the detective work of what makes PLAY work and what makes it crash. However lets stop trashing the company or its employees personally and keep the thread focused on digging ourselves out of the hole. Hopefully it will shame the PLAY people into getting their act together. The nastier and more personal and spurious we are the greater the chances they will get stroppy and force SOS to remove the thread. Which benefits none of us.
Does this make me a huge cotton candy assed pussy cat? probably, but just trying to be pragmatic and get my system happy.




Paul, have you tried dealing with EW's forum or support? If so you'll know the notion that they might be shamed into action by a(nother) thread on a forum in a distant land is crazy talk. Going on personal experience, it's pretty clear they couldn't give a monkey's nuts about any unhappy customer who questions the quality of their products.

Which is bonkers - just a couple of years ago they were held in high regard the world over for having ground breaking products that sounded unbelievably good. Stuff like Stormdrum was almost visionary when it first came out; the respect in which they were held in 'our' little community was almost limitless. Yet in 18 short months they pissed everything against the wall due to their almost psychotic attachment to a piece of software that doesn't sit up and beg the way it should. With that kind of blind devotion to duty, they deserve everything they get.

If being pragmatic is the name of the game, it's time for your assistant to boot up Redmatica's 'Auto Sampler' and get busy.....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
...................
member


Joined: 23/02/04
Posts: 781
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685748 - 06/12/08 10:53 PM
Hmmm, I'm just working on a demo using the Low Irish Whistle (Goliath) in Play, sounds Ok except whenever the pitch bend crosses the centre point there's a click. No matter what I tweak. I'm not sure if it's Play or the sample set, but fortunately this is a demo, and I'll be recording a whislte player for the actual part, but that's not the point...

Despite this, and despite the fact the standalone version is still silent for me (all the lights are glowing, but nobody's home, it only works within my DAW using VST), I do like the sounds.

Red, I know this is probably a grandmother/egg scenario and not relevant to all your setups, but have you tried making the Play engine LAA (Large Address Aware), I used Laatido to do this. Opinion seems divided on the need, but it cured a whole bunch of streaming pop/click problems for my setup (PC, xp 4gb ram, 32 bit, cubase SX3).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685770 - 07/12/08 05:00 AM
OK, that's about one million variables to sift through... Quite a task. Not to mention that Macs are better.

Naturally, it's not satisfactory that EW's customers should be expected to put their systems under a microscope, in order to find some obscure bugs in PLAY. No argument there. Now that this is out of the way, I would suggest the following:

Use a spare HD, freshly install the OS and your favourite DAW, then PLAY, to see if it still doesn't work. Pull out all cables (except for the power cord ) and use your 'puter's internal audio. Then, one by one, connect audio interface, USB and ethernet devices. Somewhere along the line, I'd expect the gremlins to surface.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #685772 - 07/12/08 06:17 AM
Quote redleicester:


...

As a result of this simple architecture,

...




Simple? Blimey. Are you sure you didn't attach a USB toaster and firewire brain scanner as well somewhere?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: ...................]
      #685842 - 07/12/08 12:52 PM
Quote Herewego:

Red, I know this is probably a grandmother/egg scenario and not relevant to all your setups, but have you tried making the Play engine LAA (Large Address Aware), I used Laatido to do this. Opinion seems divided on the need, but it cured a whole bunch of streaming pop/click problems for my setup (PC, xp 4gb ram, 32 bit, cubase SX3).




Sadly my Grandmother must have some Scottish heritage along the line somewhere as she'd never buy eggs.... too expensive.

Laatido is a great program isn't it? Have used it on countless things and yes, I've tried it on Play. However, even if it had worked, it would have served only to show again that there's something amiss in the Play coding - afterall, if it's not working properly in standalone 64-bit mode on those slave (as it indeed fails to do), then there really is something awry.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685843 - 07/12/08 12:54 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote redleicester:


...

As a result of this simple architecture,

...




Simple? Blimey. Are you sure you didn't attach a USB toaster and firewire brain scanner as well somewhere?




Nope. Just the Firewire Trouserpress.

Really is a fairly simple rig, but given the above, I am rather bored of being told I don't know what I'm doing, and that clearly it's all my fault as I don't know how to set up a kompooter properly...

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Kevin Nolan
member


Joined: 12/01/03
Posts: 807
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685871 - 07/12/08 02:36 PM
Likewise - my numerous EW packages purchased over the past year are awaiting a new computer; and this news is nothing short of disastrous - I have invested heavily in EW.

To sum up what this thread has so far revealed:

- Eastwest products do not work under 'Play'

- Eastwest have no intentions of resolving this issue so their products are effectively useless

- The reputations of Eastwests talent - including Doug Rogers, Nick Phoenix and Professor Keith O. Johnson - all party to this fiasco - are now in tatters and they should never be trusted again in any music or music-technology venture.

- Sound on Sound reviews, in not identifying and flagging this significant issue should not be trusted; and at a bare minimum the reviewer(s) of EW products should be disregarded from here on in.


This is all very interesting and informative. I for one will now look at VSL from here on in (although cautiously); and although I've being buying SOS since issue one; this strengthens my argument on another thread that SOS is going downhill with regard to their review and journalistic quality. I’ll be delighted for all of the above points above to be wrong as all we want are working products and a strong and relevant SOS; but this episode is incredibly telling and worrying all round.

Kevin.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685877 - 07/12/08 03:02 PM
Strangely, all I had to do was install PLAY and, er, play with it.

Then again, I have always known that I'm special.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #685886 - 07/12/08 03:22 PM
Quote redleicester:


Really is a fairly simple rig, but given the above, I am rather bored of being told I don't know what I'm doing, and that clearly it's all my fault as I don't know how to set up a kompooter properly...




Sure, but you do realise that with every bit of gear you attach to your rig, your chances of encountering an incompatibility increase accordingly?

Go on, try the bare bones approach I suggested earlier. I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get PLAY to work that way.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685889 - 07/12/08 03:28 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote redleicester:


Really is a fairly simple rig, but given the above, I am rather bored of being told I don't know what I'm doing, and that clearly it's all my fault as I don't know how to set up a kompooter properly...




Sure, but you do realise that with every bit of gear you attach to your rig, your chances of encountering an incompatibility increase accordingly?

Go on, try the bare bones approach I suggested earlier. I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get PLAY to work that way.




Already done chap, on one 32-bit and one 64-bit slave built from the ground up...

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685893 - 07/12/08 03:43 PM
... And..? Enquiring minds want to know.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685908 - 07/12/08 04:49 PM
Quote Tui:

... And..? Enquiring minds want to know.




Sorry, thought the answer was implicit in the explanation - no joy, zip, nada, nix, naff all. Made little discernable difference, still didn't work to any reasonable standard of operation.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #685912 - 07/12/08 05:01 PM
Bummer. That's really bad.

Now, can you do the same with one of the Macs? That simply has got to work. When I said I never had a problem with my two Intel Macs, I honestly meant it. Up until this thread, I was unaware of the massive problems some (many?) people seem to encounter.

If I remember correctly, I think I noticed a couple of samples in SD2 that didn't play well or perhaps glitched, but considering the size of SD2, I didn't take much notice and pretty much forgot about it. Most of my libraries contain the odd duff sample (Kirk Hunter, for example), and I kind of take that for granted. Importantly, however, PLAY never gave me any real problems, but happily works alongside all the stuff I listed earlier.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
hugol



Joined: 28/03/06
Posts: 845
Loc: London, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #685937 - 07/12/08 06:48 PM
Quote Pete (Conz) Connelly:


Everything should be built to protocol that will work universally, in a way that MIDI was devised back in the early 80's. If component manufactures worked together and stuck to standards, life would be a LOT simpler for s/w developers.





That's exactly how it's supposed to work - it's called an API. Nothing is going to talk directly to anything - it's always going to be through several layers of abstraction. That's not to say that many APIs aren't over complex, badly documented or just plain buggy of course. There are also of course platform specific.

To other comments earlier, what hardware you have plugged into your DAW really shouldn't make any difference - but admittedly you are opening yourself up to any bugs in the associated drivers.

All of these really does sound like incredibly poor testing on EW's part. It really shouldn't be this hard - highly likely their code is just poor, also inexperience could mean they are invoking stuff in pretty non-standard ways and exposing platform bugs or they themselves are using some pretty buggy 3rd party libraries. Either way it does sound totally unacceptable.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #685985 - 07/12/08 08:58 PM
Quote Tui:



If I remember correctly, I think I noticed a couple of samples in SD2 that didn't play well or perhaps glitched, but considering the size of SD2, I didn't take much notice and pretty much forgot about it.




Aha!

Tui, do me a favour chap if you would, load up the following midi performance please:

Glitch Ma XXXitch 4/4 130. What do you get?

If you get the drop outs, mute the following sample: 130bpm Glitched drone. What do you get now?

Cheers


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Kevin Nolan]
      #685992 - 07/12/08 09:19 PM
Quote Kevin Nolan:


- Sound on Sound reviews, in not identifying and flagging this significant issue should not be trusted; and at a bare minimum the reviewer(s) of EW products should be disregarded from here on in.





Not entirely sure I'm with you on this Kevin - reviewing software in particular is a tricky business, and can easily swing both ways: You could (as clearly Dave Stewart did), have totally plain sailing and see no issues, even if that was a million to one shot, it could still happen.

Conversely you could have crashes/bugs/issues on a machine that no one else experiences, and support staff cannot reproduce... Basically just the same as a user themselves may have a utopian experiance or a dystopian one.

I think it's a little unfair to point fingers at specific reviewers, it's not an easy exercise as anyone involved in the field will agree I'm sure, and others would be just as quick to leap on the over-cautious reviewer for being paranoid or picking holes if they covered every single itty-bitty fault found.

That said I am astonished that there have been nothing but positive reviews, given the number of issues raised on these forums and on countless others over the past 18 months, and that scant attention has been paid to looking back and wondering why.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dmills



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 2463
Loc: High Wycombe, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: hugol]
      #686012 - 07/12/08 10:56 PM
Quote HugoL:


That's exactly how it's supposed to work - it's called an API. Nothing is going to talk directly to anything - it's always going to be through several layers of abstraction.




The other issue for things like sample playback engines is that not all APIs are realtime safe, the audio handling code typically must not (for example) call anything that might allocate memory (Thereby causing page faults), and typically the audio code cannot even draw anything on the screen (memory management and locking issues), this sort of bug can be **HARD** to track down and its appearance can be highly system dependant. Realtime programming is a totally different mindset to writing GUI code.
Quote:


That's not to say that many APIs aren't over complex, badly documented or just plain buggy of course. There are also of course platform specific.




All too true, and often all three at the same time. There are also the cases where poorly documented API behaviour changes between different versions of the 'same' operating system.

You can test till you are blue in the face, but sometimes code that worked perfectly in all your test cases, crashes and burns when released to retail customers (Had it happen, it is painful). Of course the modern practise of pushing stuff to market without an adequate set of beta and release candidate testing (It adds a year to your release cycle if you do it right) does tend to make problems with early releases more likely.

Avoid any version number ending in .0 for anything, and especially avoid 1.0 else you WILL be a beta tester.

The real test is in how the company responds to a decent bug report.

Regards, Dan.

--------------------
Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
hugol



Joined: 28/03/06
Posts: 845
Loc: London, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #686017 - 07/12/08 11:13 PM
I absolutely agree Dan. It does sound EW are being less than pro-active though - you'd think even if they couldn't reproduce (and I've also experienced things going wrong you'd never expect) they'd supply select people with debug code to assist.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Kevin Nolan
member


Joined: 12/01/03
Posts: 807
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #686023 - 07/12/08 11:36 PM
Quote redleicester:

Quote Kevin Nolan:


- Sound on Sound reviews, in not identifying and flagging this significant issue should not be trusted; and at a bare minimum the reviewer(s) of EW products should be disregarded from here on in.





Not entirely sure I'm with you on this Kevin - reviewing software in particular is a tricky business, and can easily swing both ways: You could (as clearly Dave Stewart did), have totally plain sailing and see no issues, even if that was a million to one shot, it could still happen.

Conversely you could have crashes/bugs/issues on a machine that no one else experiences, and support staff cannot reproduce... Basically just the same as a user themselves may have a utopian experiance or a dystopian one.

I think it's a little unfair to point fingers at specific reviewers, it's not an easy exercise as anyone involved in the field will agree I'm sure, and others would be just as quick to leap on the over-cautious reviewer for being paranoid or picking holes if they covered every single itty-bitty fault found.

That said I am astonished that there have been nothing but positive reviews, given the number of issues raised on these forums and on countless others over the past 18 months, and that scant attention has been paid to looking back and wondering why.





Listen - people are paying hard earned money on these products. SOS are reviewing many of them and they have mentioned nothing of this issue, let alone its severity.

If this was a Car magazine or Audiophile magazine (as ridiculous as some Audiophile issues can be) they'd hunt down the issues until they were revealed. I'm not on an SOS bashing session for the sake of it; but I was about to purchase EW Pianos partly on the basis of SOS's recent review.

SOS reviews are increasingly toothless. They should stress test these products on multiple platforms. It should not cost a lot of money to install each of the major DAWs and test plugins in them. Virtually always, SOS reviewers clearly indicate that they review software on only a single platform / DAW. That's no use to most users.

SOS claim they are a major music recording publication, but look at the disaster that is EW Play, and not a peep out of SOS. What's the actual point of them reviewing if they are not going to highlight vital issues?

EW are one of only two major orchestral sample release companies, so many people like me have invested heavily in them. This makes it all the more vital that the likes of SOS do thorough and robust reviews. But they are not. Too often their reviews are like a summary of the brochure, with nothing of substance or real world insight. This issue verifies this to be the case.

I'm honestly shocked at the severity of this issue, the apparent disinterest of EW as a company and that only a month or two ago SOS gave a great review to EW Pianos on Play. How on God's name did that reviewer not encounter this issue? It must have been the most superficial of tests.

Kevin.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #686028 - 07/12/08 11:43 PM
Kevin, you can't pin ALL the blame on SOS. A lot of car magazines gave rave reviews to the Ford Pinto until, much later, Ralph Nader exposed a disturbing tendency for the fuel tanks to explode.

What do you think SOS is, when you demand stress testing on multiple platforms? It's a little cottage industry with a handful of full time employees. 99.9% of readers want to know about new products quickly and in as much depth as is reasonable - not 18 months after they've been launched to suit your desired "scientific peer-review" standard.

If something works OK for a reviewer on his own platform, is he really supposed to say "something wrong, surely"?

I'll concede however that in the light of widespread experiences such as this thread reveals, it might well be worth another article, underpinned by some searching questions to EW's management.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #686081 - 08/12/08 04:03 AM
I have to agree though, I doesn't seem like asking too much from SOS, when we expect a major piece of software - and an expensive one at that - to get tested thoroughly on the only two universally prevalent platforms: PCs and Macs. I thought that's what we are paying our subscriptions for? If I wanted to read sales blurb, I could go to the company web sites. No, honestly, that's not good enough for "The World's Best Recording Magazine". If I had bought PLAY and couldn't get it to work on my system, I'd be fuming too.

Rousseau, is there really a file labelled "Glitch Ma XXXitch 4/4 130"? I never knew. Strange name, though, doesn't bode well for PLAY's stability, does it. I'll give it a go later when I'm back home.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Setter
member


Joined: 06/11/02
Posts: 580
Loc: Tesside UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #686140 - 08/12/08 10:10 AM
Quote Steve Hill:

A lot of car magazines gave rave reviews to the Ford Pinto until, much later, Ralph Nader exposed a disturbing tendency for the fuel tanks to explode.






The difference is that (presumably) the exploding fuel tanks were not a common feature of chat on the web.

It would seem reasonable for the recent reviewer to have done some background research on the forums and to have been aware of the stability issues.

I'm finding SOS reviews to be less and less helpful. Reading a typical review (not the obvious slatings) will suggest that there may be a few issues but as far as general quality is concerned the purchase will be a good investment.

As an example consider the microphone reviews. A typical review of a 'budget' microphone will read much the same as a review of a high end system except that it will say things along the line of 'much better than the cost would suggest' or "not quite as good as the really high end but you'd have to pay a lot more to get a small increase in performance".

They never say, this microphone is ok for starting out but after you've been recording for a few years you'll wish you'd bought quality right from the start.

Increasingly the reviews have to be read 'between the lines' and opinions sought out on these forums (fora??)

J


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
thenaturallevel



Joined: 28/02/07
Posts: 1211
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Setter]
      #686171 - 08/12/08 11:08 AM
Quote Setter:

Quote Steve Hill:

A lot of car magazines gave rave reviews to the Ford Pinto until, much later, Ralph Nader exposed a disturbing tendency for the fuel tanks to explode.




The difference is that (presumably) the exploding fuel tanks were not a common feature of chat on the web.





No internet in those days. However, it cause a major controversy not least to due to the now infamouse "Ford Pinto Memo" which basically stated that it was cheaper to pay off any resultant law suits, arising from a fatality, than implement the fuel tank redesign. Perhaps EW have decided it is cheaper to take the heat and the criticism rather than fix the issue?

Edited by thenaturallevel (08/12/08 11:08 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Setter
member


Joined: 06/11/02
Posts: 580
Loc: Tesside UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: thenaturallevel]
      #686190 - 08/12/08 12:01 PM
Quote thenaturallevel:



No internet in those days.




Just testing

I should have done some background research first.

J


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #686203 - 08/12/08 12:32 PM
Quote Tui:


Rousseau, is there really a file labelled "Glitch Ma XXXitch 4/4 130"? I never knew. Strange name, though, doesn't bode well for PLAY's stability, does it. I'll give it a go later when I'm back home.




There is Tui and thanks that'd be great.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Setter]
      #686205 - 08/12/08 12:33 PM
Quote Setter:

Quote Steve Hill:



They never say, this microphone is ok for starting out but after you've been recording for a few years you'll wish you'd bought quality right from the start.







err... isn't that what's implicit when the words "good for the money" , or "better than cost implies" and paraphrases thereof , appear ANYWHERE in a review?


reality = you get what you pay for.

it always has, and it always will
.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #686227 - 08/12/08 01:19 PM
re: toothless SOS reviews - all credit to the management for letting a thread like this develop in its less than complimentary direction. If this was the EastWest forum, it would have been spiked by the second sentence of the first post.

As for 'reading between the lines' which seems to be the default excuse for the limp nature of most SOS reviews - that's all very well if you've some kind of insight into the MT world, but if you're a sixteen year old kid about to splash all your cash on your first mic / interface / bit of software, you don't want to be subject to the sophistries (oooh I love that word) of some been-round-the-block reviewer. Have some balls, risk offending a manufacturer and earn the respect of your paying readers - if a mic is just another Chinese bag of bolts with a new name on it, say so. If a piece of software doesn't function as advertised, say so.

Or is ad revenue always going to be king?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Dishpan



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 814
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #686272 - 08/12/08 02:26 PM
So many times I've read reviews of software only to think "dang, I wish I had the review version rather than the one I bought".

A case in point is Cubase SX. Early versions were PLAGUED with bugs that even a two minute use of the program would highlight, yet none of them ever seemed to affect the review machines. And these bugs were apparent on ALL systems as they were major bugs in the software, not in the system configuration.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #686309 - 08/12/08 03:36 PM
ad revenue as king....

yeah right....

not at SOS it isn't , it never has been, and as long as Ian Gilby owns it, it never will be either..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #686329 - 08/12/08 04:12 PM
Rousseau, I had a closer look at PLAY on my system. Some more info:

Mac Pro-8 3GHz, 8GB Apple RAM, OS 10.5.4, clocked via BNC from an Apogee AD into the Digiface.
Logic 8.0.2, I/O Buffer Size 512.
SD2 version 1.0.044. Play component version 1.0.056. PLAY preferences: Engine Memory 240 MBytes, Max Voices 256, Prime Buffer 320 kBytes, Play Buffer 384 kBytes, Engine Level 2.
Samples streamed from two software-raided Lacie FW800 d2.

For the test, I brought up a jingle I did recently. Stereo, 44.1/24. Plug-ins by Apple, Flux, PSP, URS, Schwa, Voxengo. The file has, open and loaded, 11 instances of PLAY, even though the actual tune features only the "Nepalese Two-Headed Drum" preset. Voice Limit is 16, the same as on the other, unused presets. Result: No problems, except for the GUI that turns almost entirely white when I enable Logic's window-linking feature and select a different channel. Annoying, but no big deal. This might have been fixed in a recent update.

To see if PLAY falls over or does anything strange, I added some voices - 8th and 16th notes - to all previously unused instances of PLAY. The instruments used:
Nepalese Two-Headed Drum
11 Bowl Gongs
Brake Drums
Chinese Cymbal
Finger Cymbal 1
Finger Cymbal 2
Finger Cymbal 3
Finger Cymbal 4
Giant Buddha Bell
Gongs 24inch to 35inch
Gongs 7inch to 22inch
Again, no problems, except for the GUI strangeness I mentioned earlier. To be sure, I soloed and grouped all 11 instances of PLAY, to listen for any glitches. There were none.

Now the file you mentioned, "Glitch Ma XXXitch 4/4 130", which appears on my screen as "Glitch Ma XXXitch 44 130.ewi". I loaded it, in addition to the other 11 instances of PLAY. Everything seemed well, and I got different instruments on different midi channels, as expected. For the test, I was just about to record a simple drum pattern on channel 4, when... Logic crashed. Whoooooooooooooops!

So, I re-launched Logic by loading up the same tune again (I also had to re-launch Drumcore, since it is a Rewire client). I loaded "Glitch Ma XXXitch 44 130.ewi", and recorded a few burping-type noises on channel 1. No problems, they played back in sync with the rest of the tune. I then tried to record some drums on channel 4, this time without problems. They played back in sync, no glitches. Logic held up as well, 100%.

I then loaded "130 bpm glitched drone.ewi", replacing the previous multi. No problems. It played in sync with the tune, no glitches.

There you have it. On my system, with a version of PLAY that is probably outdated (I haven't checked for a while), I only encountered serious issues once with the multi you mentioned (I didn't try other multies, since I generally don't use them). However, individual presets seem to always load and play OK.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #686337 - 08/12/08 04:23 PM
Quote Tui:

Bummer. That's really bad.

Now, can you do the same with one of the Macs? That simply has got to work. When I said I never had a problem with my two Intel Macs, I honestly meant it. Up until this thread, I was unaware of the massive problems some (many?) people seem to encounter.




To which effect I earlier said:


Quote Redleicester:

PS - For my detractors amongst those who know me, I should also be at pains to point out the Macs are not mine.





'Fraid not chap - I'd probably wreck some warranty, scare myself or trigger the wrath of the Job's Deity if I dared open a Mac, and the MacPros I have seen die are not mine, they're at colleagues studios...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #686340 - 08/12/08 04:28 PM
Quote Tui:

Rousseau, I had a closer look at PLAY on my system. Some more info:

Mac Pro-8 3GHz, 8GB Apple RAM, OS 10.5.4, clocked via BNC from an Apogee AD into the Digiface.
Logic 8.0.2, I/O Buffer Size 512.
SD2 version 1.0.044. Play component version 1.0.056. PLAY preferences: Engine Memory 240 MBytes, Max Voices 256, Prime Buffer 320 kBytes, Play Buffer 384 kBytes, Engine Level 2.
Samples streamed from two software-raided Lacie FW800 d2.

For the test, I brought up a jingle I did recently. Stereo, 44.1/24. Plug-ins by Apple, Flux, PSP, URS, Schwa, Voxengo. The file has, open and loaded, 11 instances of PLAY, even though the actual tune features only the "Nepalese Two-Headed Drum" preset. Voice Limit is 16, the same as on the other, unused presets. Result: No problems, except for the GUI that turns almost entirely white when I enable Logic's window-linking feature and select a different channel. Annoying, but no big deal. This might have been fixed in a recent update.

To see if PLAY falls over or does anything strange, I added some voices - 8th and 16th notes - to all previously unused instances of PLAY. The instruments used:
Nepalese Two-Headed Drum
11 Bowl Gongs
Brake Drums
Chinese Cymbal
Finger Cymbal 1
Finger Cymbal 2
Finger Cymbal 3
Finger Cymbal 4
Giant Buddha Bell
Gongs 24inch to 35inch
Gongs 7inch to 22inch
Again, no problems, except for the GUI strangeness I mentioned earlier. To be sure, I soloed and grouped all 11 instances of PLAY, to listen for any glitches. There were none.

Now the file you mentioned, "Glitch Ma XXXitch 4/4 130", which appears on my screen as "Glitch Ma XXXitch 44 130.ewi". I loaded it, in addition to the other 11 instances of PLAY. Everything seemed well, and I got different instruments on different midi channels, as expected. For the test, I was just about to record a simple drum pattern on channel 4, when... Logic crashed. Whoooooooooooooops!

So, I re-launched Logic by loading up the same tune again (I also had to re-launch Drumcore, since it is a Rewire client). I loaded "Glitch Ma XXXitch 44 130.ewi", and recorded a few burping-type noises on channel 1. No problems, they played back in sync with the rest of the tune. I then tried to record some drums on channel 4, this time without problems. They played back in sync, no glitches. Logic held up as well, 100%.

I then loaded "130 bpm glitched drone.ewi", replacing the previous multi. No problems. It played in sync with the tune, no glitches.

There you have it. On my system, with a version of PLAY that is probably outdated (I haven't checked for a while), I only encountered serious issues once with the multi you mentioned (I didn't try other multies, since I generally don't use them). However, individual presets seem to always load and play OK.





Interesting. Why 11 instances of Play? Why not use one multitimbrally as it's designed to do?

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #686341 - 08/12/08 04:28 PM
What I meant was, can't you get hold of a spare HD, install OS X and your DAW, then PLAY, to see if it still doesn't work? No need to open any boxes - us Macoids never do such scary things anyway.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #686352 - 08/12/08 04:42 PM
Quote redleicester:


Interesting. Why 11 instances of Play? Why not use one multitimbrally as it's designed to do?




11 instances, because I thought I was going to use the sounds from those presets for several ethnic-type jingles. Basically, I worked from a self-made template. In the event, I only used that Nepalese drum sample in PLAY, and all other percussion sounds came from Drumcore and Kontakt. So, 11 is a rather arbitrary number.

You say that PLAY is designed to be used multitimbrally. I'm not sure about that. I remember reading on their forums that EW actually advises against using multies, but encourages their customers to use individual sample banks whenever possible. I forgot the exact reason, something to do with memory allocation, or something.

Also, I don't like it when software tries to make composing and sound-design decisions for me - I'd rather pick and choose the sounds myself, thank you!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #686353 - 08/12/08 04:47 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote redleicester:


Interesting. Why 11 instances of Play? Why not use one multitimbrally as it's designed to do?




11 instances, because I thought I was going to use the sounds from those presets for several ethnic-type jingles. Basically, I worked from a self-made template. In the event, I only used that Nepalese drum sample in PLAY, and all other percussion sounds came from Drumcore and Kontakt. So, 11 is a rather arbitrary number.

You say that PLAY is designed to be used multitimbrally. I'm not sure about that. I remember reading on their forums that EW actually advises against using multies, but encourages their customers to use individual sample banks whenever possible. I forgot the exact reason, something to do with memory allocation, or something.

Also, I don't like it when software tries to make composing and sound-design decisions for me - I'd rather pick and choose the sounds myself, thank you!





Doug and Nick have indeed on several occasions espoused using multiple instances, which rather defeats the object of their marketing it as a multi-timbral instrument!

So you load a single instance of Kontakt per sound you're going to use too?

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #686355 - 08/12/08 04:57 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote redleicester:


Interesting. Why 11 instances of Play? Why not use one multitimbrally as it's designed to do?




11 instances, because I thought I was going to use the sounds from those presets for several ethnic-type jingles. Basically, I worked from a self-made template. In the event, I only used that Nepalese drum sample in PLAY, and all other percussion sounds came from Drumcore and Kontakt. So, 11 is a rather arbitrary number.

You say that PLAY is designed to be used multitimbrally. I'm not sure about that. I remember reading on their forums that EW actually advises against using multies, but encourages their customers to use individual sample banks whenever possible. I forgot the exact reason, something to do with memory allocation, or something.

Also, I don't like it when software tries to make composing and sound-design decisions for me - I'd rather pick and choose the sounds myself, thank you!




Thanks for the experiment Tui, and sorry for crashing your computer.

I think the irony of a revolutionary multitimbral sampler that the designers encourage you to use monotimbrally - cos they know it doesn't work properly - is totally lost on EWQL.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #686358 - 08/12/08 04:59 PM
Quote redleicester:

Quote Tui:

Quote redleicester:


Interesting. Why 11 instances of Play? Why not use one multitimbrally as it's designed to do?




11 instances, because I thought I was going to use the sounds from those presets for several ethnic-type jingles. Basically, I worked from a self-made template. In the event, I only used that Nepalese drum sample in PLAY, and all other percussion sounds came from Drumcore and Kontakt. So, 11 is a rather arbitrary number.

You say that PLAY is designed to be used multitimbrally. I'm not sure about that. I remember reading on their forums that EW actually advises against using multies, but encourages their customers to use individual sample banks whenever possible. I forgot the exact reason, something to do with memory allocation, or something.

Also, I don't like it when software tries to make composing and sound-design decisions for me - I'd rather pick and choose the sounds myself, thank you!





Doug and Nick have indeed on several occasions espoused using multiple instances, which rather defeats the object of their marketing it as a multi-timbral instrument!

So you load a single instance of Kontakt per sound you're going to use too?




Actually Red, I load up a single instance of VE2 for each articulation honest


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #686363 - 08/12/08 05:15 PM
Quote redleicester:


So you load a single instance of Kontakt per sound you're going to use too?




Yup. I find it easier to keep track of the sounds I've got available or currently playing. Also, I can't be bothered with clicking through a myriad of microscopic sub-menus in Kontakt or PLAY, until I've found what I'm looking for. At any rate, there don't seem to be any disadvantages in working this way.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #686368 - 08/12/08 05:19 PM
I also prefer the single instance, single channel approach.

Multitimbrality was great in the days where you had to maximise a single multi-timbral synth to get everything running in realtime, but it was always a compromise.

In this day and age, unless we are running *really* massive arrangements, I don't personally see much sense in getting one instance to do 16 parts, and then routing them all out in the plugin to aux channels and so on.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: desmond]
      #686529 - 09/12/08 04:09 AM
Quote desmond:

I don't personally see much sense in getting one instance to do 16 parts, and then routing them all out in the plugin to aux channels and so on.




Agreed. Just for the labyrinthian routing alone, I'd imagine working multitimbrally to be a right pain in the posterior. Unless you don't want to add any further processing anyway, that is.

A final thought: Could it be that PLAY reveals minor faults in RAM? Perhaps it would be worth doing a thorough RAM check (on the Mac one can run Rember, for example).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #686645 - 09/12/08 01:36 PM
Quick heads up in case it helps some of the Mac bretheren...

EWQL leap today released a long awaited update - some 138mb - to PLAY. No version 1.1.6

Still no fix for the aforementioned issues at least on our systems.

Oh well, roll on the next update.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #686685 - 09/12/08 03:07 PM
Quote Tui:

A final thought: Could it be that PLAY reveals minor faults in RAM? Perhaps it would be worth doing a thorough RAM check (on the Mac one can run Rember, for example).




Do all Macs have memory faults? None of my listed systems here have shown any with MemTest and the Vista Tester....

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #686794 - 09/12/08 07:31 PM
Quote redleicester:


Do all Macs have memory faults?




Well no, obviously. Mine don't.

Apple doesn't manufacture RAM, so the RAM chips are essentially the same as in any other PC. Macs really ARE PCs. There are more and more people who buy Macs with the intention to primarily run Windows on them. Strange, but true.

What I meant was, my (outdated) version of PLAY clearly has some bugs, but it's not unusable in the way some people describe it. I was wondering whether PLAY is also highly sensitive to minor faults in RAM. That was only a wild guess, nothing more. I'm still trying to figure out why PLAY won't work on your systems.








Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Setter
member


Joined: 06/11/02
Posts: 580
Loc: Tesside UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #687014 - 10/12/08 12:27 PM
Quote idris y draig:


reality = you get what you pay for.

it always has, and it always will
.




If that were the only issue then we wouldn't bother with a review at all, we'd all buy things on price and know precisely what quality we were getting.

Clearly that ain't the case and we use reviews to get an idea of where on the 'quality / price' graph a given microphone (or any other piece of kit lies). My problem is that recent SOS reviews of the cheaper kit tends to give the impression that they lie sufficiently close to the high quality stuff in performance that most people will never notice the difference.

My laptop is really cheap. It is perfectly adequate for what I want (on location recording of three or four tracks'. paying more for a faster computer would get be different features (lots more plugins) but as I never need them it wouldn't improve the quality of what comes out. My point is that with new technology, it isn't always clear that the old price / quality still holds in the same way and we beginners need some help in the reviews - not just on the forums.

I'm treading a difficult line here between appearing overly critical of a magazine I think is great and pointing out a problem I have. I also recognise that this is way off the original topic- so I'll but out now. Maybe this discussion of review trends could be continued in a separate thread?

J


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
onesecondglance



Joined: 02/01/08
Posts: 2140
Loc: Reading, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Setter]
      #687029 - 10/12/08 01:08 PM
Quote Setter:

Maybe this discussion of review trends could be continued in a separate thread?




maybe in the Magazine Feedback section? since it's specifically about SoS? you'll be more likely to get a direct response from the mag then, too.

--------------------
hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Jez (mahoobley)
monkey


Joined: 21/03/03
Posts: 2222
Loc: East Midlands
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Setter]
      #687066 - 10/12/08 02:51 PM
Quote Setter:

Quote idris y draig:


reality = you get what you pay for.

it always has, and it always will
.




I've got some really nice speaker cables you might be interested in

--------------------
http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Jez (mahoobley)]
      #687076 - 10/12/08 03:05 PM
Lol hoobs..... i'd need a significant portion of the gnp to replace all mine with that stuff.....


Setter.... in my view, frankly it's only as you advance along the path of the audio geek that you begin to appreciate the finer nuances of high end , expensive, equipment.... and often no amount of well intentioned , experienced, advice , will persuade you to buy much more than the entry level budget kit....

there have been no end of times that i've told someone what piece of kit I'd choose for a specific job, and they've refused to believe that they really had to spend another grand or two to do it properly.... and several years later had the "you know what, you were right, I should have just started with the right tool for the job in the first place" conversation with them...


any time the phrase , or intent of "it's a good budget effort at an XYZ device... and performs well for the money" appears ina review... you can bet that there's a better , and initially more expensive, tool for that same job out there......

PLAY SUCKS BTW.....


(in case anyone thought I might feel otherwise)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Setter
member


Joined: 06/11/02
Posts: 580
Loc: Tesside UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: onesecondglance]
      #687102 - 10/12/08 04:37 PM
Quote onesecondglance:



maybe in the Magazine Feedback section? since it's specifically about SoS? you'll be more likely to get a direct response from the mag then, too.




DONE HERE!

J


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #688141 - 13/12/08 08:00 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote redleicester:


Do all Macs have memory faults?




Well no, obviously. Mine don't.

Apple doesn't manufacture RAM, so the RAM chips are essentially the same as in any other PC. Macs really ARE PCs. There are more and more people who buy Macs with the intention to primarily run Windows on them. Strange, but true.

What I meant was, my (outdated) version of PLAY clearly has some bugs, but it's not unusable in the way some people describe it. I was wondering whether PLAY is also highly sensitive to minor faults in RAM. That was only a wild guess, nothing more. I'm still trying to figure out why PLAY won't work on your systems.





When you figure it out, do let me and countless others know, then I suggest you tell EWQL, as they either refuse to respond to their "fill in a support question" forms, or just ban users off their forums for requesting help...

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #688231 - 14/12/08 05:37 AM
To be clear, I'm not defending in any shape or form EW's apparent disinterest in sorting out bugs.

Also, I'd imagine that writing the code for a really stable and complex sample playback engine isn't exactly a trivial task. When I think about it, every single one of the one's I use, from Ivory to EXS24, have some kind of a bug.

redleicester, if you come across one that doesn't, will you let me know?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
dmills



Joined: 25/08/06
Posts: 2463
Loc: High Wycombe, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #688256 - 14/12/08 09:46 AM
You know what the really annoying thing is?

Often as not the bugs are not actually in the realtime sample playback code (which really actually is not that complicated), but in the GUI!

A large part of the cause (in general I dont know about in PLAY) is that the designers of audio plugins seem unable to use the standard widgets supplied by the OS and seem to feel an irresistible urge to invent their own, non standard interfaces.
Not only does it breed bugs, but it means that the normal assumptions about user interface design go out the window, everything from input focus behaviour to keyboard shortcuts gets seriously unpredictable.

Please, user interface designers CUT IT OUT, it is annoying.

Also, please stop rendering variable controls as knobs (it does not work on a computer screen and there are at least three ways of doing it, and they all suck), In fact stop trying to mimic physical control panel layouts on screen, it does not work! There is nothing wrong with using sliders, radio buttons and spinbuttons to control a plugin, and for dead certain, I dont need a plugin emulation of some random compressor taking up half my 1600 * 1200 monitor!

This rant bought to you by a 'Creative' sandblaster <spit> driver that I spent nearly 20 minutes trying to work out how to control.
Never did get it to work in a sane way.

Regards, Dan.

--------------------
Audiophiles use phono leads because they are unbalanced people!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #688262 - 14/12/08 10:16 AM
Quote Tui:

some kind of a bug.

redleicester, if you come across one that doesn't, will you let me know?





Wish I hah! As I have said, I totally agree with you - plugin coding must be a complete minefield and something I would freely admit that I would struggle to comprehend in principle, let alone manage to do myself. However, simple matters of customer support not abust, considered marketing not self-aggrandising, and perhaps a drop of realism goes a long way: despite their claims, Play is NOT the world's first 64-bit sample player, nor is it the world's first networked sample player (in both cases VSL got there a long time earlier, and in the latter case, the network control still doesn't exist even two years after they announced it).

The simple fact is that there are some people such as yourself who have no trouble whatsoever, and for whom Play performs as advertised (barring the fact you use multiple instances for single instruments instead of a single instance multi-timbrally.) However, there are also many for whom Play does not perform at all well, and it would appear from this thread and others that for the majority of those the "bug" or "issues" or "problems" are deal breakers - not something that can be worked around in a simple manner. For those people to be left out in the cold, or fobbed off with either inane excuses, ill-aimed and ill-informed rhetoric or worse, ignored completely is frankly shocking behaviour.

I have total sympathy for EW - to tackle their own player and bring the design in-house is a brave step, if not unique to them, yet the way they have gone about supporting the venture is both morally and practically reprehensible.

Plenty of other developers have had teething problems with their plugins and have rushed to update, change, modify and mend their software whilst keeping users well and truly in the loop as to what is going on: in the case of Play, the only cogent support that has been forthcoming for many of us was to be told our systems were faulty, inadequate, incorrectly installed or otherwise useless and that it had nothing whatsoever to do with Play - then half a dozen months and updates later it suddenly works rather better if not anywhere approaching what one might deem normal. Now surely that leaves a bit of a bad taste in one's mouth, given the installation, hardware and other software hasn't changed a jot, therefore if one was to believe support, Play should still be as inoperable as it was on day one... Madness.

To add a lighter note towards the end, and put things in some sort of context, I strongly believe that much of the ire and rancour is from those who used to have multiple Gigastudio rigs: when it worked, it was golden, but more often than not it was a complete pig, with successive updates serving only to introduce new problems as quickly as they fixed old ones. They were completely caught out by the arrival of Hyperthreading processors, leaving the platform single-threaded, and one ended up jumping through all sorts of hoops recommended by internet colleagues rather than "support" in order to set up systems specifically to run GS alone.

Thankfully those days are past, and GS3.2 and 4 were excellent, and their demise is a terrible shame, but for the interregnum variants it was a horrendous headache. Since then, we have been blessed with many excellent and stable plugins, whether due to simpler coding or better beta testing is moot, but it does serve to make Play stand out all the more like a sore thumb.

I do reiterate that I sincerely hope it is fixed - not only have EWQL had thousands off me over the years, and a great deal of usage and exposure, but furthermore I WANT to be able to use SD2, Goliath and others as regularly as I have used RA, SD1 and Colossus in the past. However, if they are not up to the job of being run on a large multi-machine rig in a mission critical environment, then they belong on the shelf.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
HOTC



Joined: 03/12/08
Posts: 41
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #688278 - 14/12/08 11:21 AM
play is very unstable
it actually wouldnt run the lience from my ilok so i contacted ewql and they were very helpful but the program is just very unstable..its like I hope it works this time kinda thing


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: dmills]
      #688309 - 14/12/08 01:26 PM
Quote dmills:


Often as not the bugs are not actually in the realtime sample playback code (which really actually is not that complicated), but in the GUI!

A large part of the cause (in general I dont know about in PLAY) is that the designers of audio plugins seem unable to use the standard widgets supplied by the OS and seem to feel an irresistible urge to invent their own, non standard interfaces.
Not only does it breed bugs, but it means that the normal assumptions about user interface design go out the window, everything from input focus behaviour to keyboard shortcuts gets seriously unpredictable.




Interesting point, and it coincides with my observation that whenever audio software has a bug, 99% of the time it appears to be graphics related. This is even true for Logic itself (i.e. screen redraws, font behaviour). Audio hardly ever seems to get affected.

One ramification of non-standard GUIs would be the constant need to update the plug-in, every time the OS gets upgraded, since it is highly like that Apple or MS change the OS in ways that clash with non-standard apps. If that is what's occurring, it would explain a lot... For a start, it would explain why many plug-ins get updated frequently, with every OS cycle, without any obvious changes in functionality. Hmmmmmmmm...........


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Wurlitzer
Active member


Joined: 11/12/02
Posts: 3341
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #688423 - 14/12/08 09:31 PM
Quote Tui:

Quote Steve Hill:

Quote Tui:

Clearly, PLAY isn't broken for all users, but only for a certain percentage. How high that figure might be, I have no idea, but that's immaterial.




It's not immaterial.




No it is. I was trying to make the point that, as long as there is a single user out there who runs PLAY without problems, a blanket condemnation is simply inappropriate.




Tui that doesn't make any sense at all if you think about it. If a company sells 1 million units of a product, 999,000 of them don't work and 1 does, then that deserves every inch of a blanket condemnation and more. You're suggesting that something has to never work, under any circumstances, to be written off as badly designed, unfit for purpose and a rip-off. Realistically, the pass mark must surely be a lot higher than that.

I certainly understand where you're coming from. I've had products in the past that work just fine for me, while garnering huge amounts of approbrium on forums. Sometimes one is just lucky.

This is certainly not the first thread like this I've seen though, and people like red are not the kind for whom the problem is likely to be carelessness or user error. Taking this along with the fact that EW products are not cheap, and come with the kind of price tag that carries an implication of reasonable roadworthiness and customer support, I'd say this situation sucks.

I sure as hell won't be buying.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Wurlitzer
Active member


Joined: 11/12/02
Posts: 3341
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #688426 - 14/12/08 09:43 PM
Incidentally, am I the only one to notice the irony of this happenning a mere few months after the world's most powerful, stable, low-latency sample engine - Gigastudio - went to the wall due to lack of sales and lack of support from sample developers. Doug Rogers and Nick Phoenix were two of the most vocal and determined in their refusal to keep developing for the platform because of its open architecture (and presumably because they wanted to hold onto to the software-portion of the profits in a total system rather than paying license fees).

All fair enough, that was their commercial decision and they were entitled to make it. And sample users were entitled to blindly follow them into a world of "romplers", based on the somewhat dubious logic that installing and using fifteen different all-in-one engines made by different (non-specialist) companies, using fifteen different copy protection systems would be "easier" than loading fifteen companies' samples into a single engine.

But they've now spent several years and God knows how much money developing a sample player, only to find that it was actually a little more difficult than they realised, their product is a lemon and there may actually have been good reason to keep entrusting that part of the process to Tascam or NI. God knows Giga was a buggy POS when it first appeared a decade ago, it was only the relentless and painstaking process of refinement and upgrades that turned it into the product it became. Maybe PLAY will be the same in another ten years. If it lasts that long.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Wurlitzer
Active member


Joined: 11/12/02
Posts: 3341
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #688430 - 14/12/08 09:53 PM
Quote idris y draig:

errr, I can cite several examples of a real slating in the pages of SOS.

assorted monitors , a roland digital mixer, one or two mics, and various softwares, and some oddball processors, have had their sales careers abruptly slashed by a poor SOS review....


i recall one beuaty by Hugh...

" I cannot think of a single reason to recommend these monitors."

or words very close to that....




Heh, my favourite was the review of the CME VX MIDI controller keyboards a year or so ago. Total slatage of the most devastating order, including the immortal quote from the manual about how you musn't touch the flying faders while they're moving or you risk setting the keyboard on fire!

In general though, I do agree with the sentiments voiced here that SOS reviews tend to err on the polite side. They make too many excuses for things that just don't work: "Exhibited some problems, but I'm sure these will be ironed out soon", "the developers assure me that an upgrade is on the way" etc. I'd rather see a much more straightforward application of the principle that if a product is advertised as being able to do something, it needs to bloody well do it or it's not fit for purpose.

And yes, it would seem to make sense that major software releases at least should be tested on two or three different systems before reviewing. Not sure how much that would add to the cost of the process though.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Wurlitzer]
      #688493 - 15/12/08 06:29 AM
Quote Wurlitzer:

I was trying to make the point that, as long as there is a single user out there who runs PLAY without problems, a blanket condemnation is simply inappropriate.




Tui that doesn't make any sense at all if you think about it. If a company sells 1 million units of a product, 999,000 of them don't work and 1 does, then that deserves every inch of a blanket condemnation and more.




I'm not sure how I could make it any clearer. There are several people here, who claim that "PLAY doesn't work". Frankly, that's bollocks. It's the same kind of bollocks as claiming that Waves installers and plug-ins "don't work" - I say that as someone who absolutely loathes Waves' business approach (not to mention their installers).

There is no business in selling something that "doesn't work". If you stop to think about it, it'll become obvious.

Not only does PLAY work on my systems, it evidently works on many, quite possibly most, systems. How do I know that? Well, just have a look around on the net, there are certainly some complaints about instability (I have expressed my own here), but only few users appear to complain that PLAY doesn't work at all.

Posters on other forums compare QL Pianos with Ivory and Garritan, for example. They can only do that if PLAY *works*. Do I need to go on..?

I can see that, for some people, PLAY doesn't deliver. My advice is, if you care enough for the sounds, do some trouble shooting. If you can't be bothered, you can a) throw PLAY in the bin, b) not buy it in the first place, or c) drive up to EW's headquarters and give THEM a bollocking.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Domenico



Joined: 04/08/06
Posts: 238
Loc: Bristol, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #690552 - 21/12/08 09:19 AM
Wow...I'm really thrilled by the number of people that are having problems with PLAY.

Luckily, I didn't upgarade to PLAY or buy a new product from EW because I was concerned about the iLok C/P system. I was going to carry a laptop with me and having two keys (Syncrosoft AND iLok) was something that I really wanted to avoid.
Pheeww! I was thinking of going for Voices Of Passion , Ministry Of Rock and Gipsy.

Yes, from my experience from what I've seen in their forums their support is unacceptable! That was similar to an EMU unofficial forum I had found in the past. They seem not to give a damn about their customers, all they want is a "clean" forum with no negative threads.

Maybe they should learn something from VSL.
I'll explain myself:

I own several VSL collections and I found a bug on their plugin UI. I posted on their forum with a link to a video reproducing the problem. I guess that if I was on an EW forum I would be banned forever and my post would be deleted. Instead of that, they replied immediately, they were keen to help and finally, they admitted the problem and promised to fix it in the next update.

Now, that's what I call support. EW, should take a hint.

--------------------
Cubase 5.5 RME UFX, Asus P6T, 12Gb Corsair Ram, Intel i7930, Powercore Firewire, Asus 9400GT Silent


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #694967 - 07/01/09 01:33 PM
Sorry to resurrect this, but anyone had any joy with the latest batch of updates?

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5902
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #694968 - 07/01/09 01:36 PM
Hey welcome back Red happy new year merry crimbo chortle chortle


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: table for two]
      #694971 - 07/01/09 01:43 PM
Quote table for two:

Hey welcome back Red happy new year merry crimbo chortle chortle




Ta me ole mucker. To you and yours too.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5902
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #694976 - 07/01/09 01:49 PM
Cheers chum


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: table for two]
      #699900 - 20/01/09 08:30 PM
Ooooh!

Look what you can buy when you sell 100,000 copies of your boat anchor!!

EastWest may not be able to design a piece of software to save their lives, but they sure have great taste.


Tokyo Brothel As Studio


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #700052 - 21/01/09 10:04 AM
Quote reid:

Ooooh!

Look what you can buy when you sell 100,000 copies of your boat anchor!!

EastWest may not be able to design a piece of software to save their lives, but they sure have great taste.


Tokyo Brothel As Studio




Have to say it's amusing that there's only one picture of the actual studio....

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Len
member


Joined: 22/02/01
Posts: 276
Loc: London, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #700070 - 21/01/09 10:29 AM
Quote redleicester:

Sorry to resurrect this, but anyone had any joy with the latest batch of updates?




Ah forget about Play - just use PLAY 2!!!

--------------------
www.youtube.com/leonardngmusic


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Len]
      #700074 - 21/01/09 10:40 AM
Quote Len:

Quote redleicester:

Sorry to resurrect this, but anyone had any joy with the latest batch of updates?




Ah forget about Play - just use PLAY 2!!!




You'll get just as much sense out of one of these - more, possibly....




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Mash



Joined: 31/08/04
Posts: 804
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #700161 - 21/01/09 02:22 PM
Quote reid:

Ooooh!

Look what you can buy when you sell 100,000 copies of your boat anchor!!

EastWest may not be able to design a piece of software to save their lives, but they sure have great taste.


Tokyo Brothel As Studio




Dear God that's one offensive looking place...and that's coming from someone posting this from HERE

Mash

--------------------
www.matthewcracknell.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
The Korff
Loose Cannon (Reviews Editor)


Joined: 20/10/06
Posts: 2445
Loc: The Wrong Precinct
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Mash]
      #700169 - 21/01/09 02:39 PM
Yeah, Envy does look a bit 'Gap advert' doesn't it... the suites look alright though.

I'm in two minds about the EW studios though — I can't decide if the 'horrific radioactive mishap in Ikea' thing works or not.

I think it might not...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
thejazzassassin



Joined: 11/04/06
Posts: 429
Loc: Billingbear
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #700177 - 21/01/09 03:05 PM
It's pushing my buttons.

Their software must have made them a lot of coin.

--------------------
www.mikeandersonmusic.co.uk


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tomás Mulcahy
active member


Joined: 25/04/01
Posts: 3032
Loc: Cork, Ireland.
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: thejazzassassin]
      #700244 - 21/01/09 06:12 PM
Quote thejazzassassin:

It's pushing my buttons.

Their software must have made them a lot of coin.



Or maybe they're just spending a lot...

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tomás Mulcahy]
      #730071 - 29/04/09 07:54 AM
OK, I admit this isn't directly connected to the music technology aspects of East West's PLAY software. And I probably could be accused of flogging a dead horse for the sake of my own satisfaction. But it's too good to resist....

For readers not fully aware of the brains trust behind PLAY, one of the culprits is Doug Rogers. Given PLAY's rocky start and EW's policy of denydenydeny about any issues with it, you can't help but smile as we join Doug Rogers in 2004, as he fails to get his new Lamborghini to drive up a hill, gets a bit tetchy when the fine folk who sold it to him don't want to hear about his problems, and then wonders how on Earth anyone could treat their customers in that manner.

Sound familiar?

The knockout line comes at the end of Doug's post on 7th May 2004 - the irony contained within this link is breathtaking......


Dontcha just hate it when companies sell things that don't work?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Len
member


Joined: 22/02/01
Posts: 276
Loc: London, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #730312 - 29/04/09 01:17 PM
"Honda van, BMW, Lexus 430 and Lotus Espirit.." and of course a Lambo.

What a tosser.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Peter Conz Connelly
active member


Joined: 17/09/02
Posts: 2194
Loc: Tyne & Wear, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Len]
      #730382 - 29/04/09 04:28 PM
Is Play still a load of Bollox? I've not yet installed my QLSO Play Edition, but have seen a few updates since. Was wondering what the current verdict is.

P

--------------------
Composer, Songwriter, Producer, Sound Designer
www.peterconnelly.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #730518 - 30/04/09 04:53 AM
Quote Pete (Conz) Connelly:

Is Play still a load of Bollox?




It still works brilliantly on my two Intel Macs (I've also installed the updates). So, not much of a change.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
thejazzassassin



Joined: 11/04/06
Posts: 429
Loc: Billingbear
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Len]
      #730566 - 30/04/09 09:01 AM
Quote Len:

"Honda van, BMW, Lexus 430 and Lotus Espirit.." and of course a Lambo.

What a tosser.




Yea, what a tosser! The number of cars you have is intrinsically linked to how much of a knob you are, right? Right? Oh dear.

--------------------
www.mikeandersonmusic.co.uk


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: thejazzassassin]
      #730846 - 01/05/09 02:06 AM
Quote thejazzassassin:

Quote Len:

"Honda van, BMW, Lexus 430 and Lotus Espirit.." and of course a Lambo.

What a tosser.




Yea, what a tosser! The number of cars you have is intrinsically linked to how much of a knob you are, right? Right? Oh dear.




And to top it off, he made his money to pay for all those cars by selling software that DOES NOT WORK. What an evil genius.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #730848 - 01/05/09 05:13 AM
He should be running Microsoft, by the sounds of it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3209
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #730849 - 01/05/09 05:14 AM
Aren't I glad I bought Kontakt! Yes I am!

Tui, you're fighting an impossible corner. It works (with some bugs, you've admitted) on your Macs... it seems you are lucky!

It's clearly disingenuous to blame under-specced systems and RAM faults when the machines in question aren't far off being cutting edge, and other software runs just fine.

There is *obviously* something very wrong with the software.

Like King Canute, you hold your hand up and try to stop the billious tide of embittered PLAY users, but telling these people not to condemn PLAY or EastWest when their expensive software doesn't work, when EastWest refuses to take them seriously and fobs them off with excuses, while the boss of EW swanks around in a fleet of luxury cars - is futile.

These people are angry for a reason.

I do find it puzzling that SoS hasn't met any serious problems with EastWest's products. They are lucky too, I guess. It would be good if SoS could do an article about how to solve problems with PLAY (in the same way they do articles about how to solve problems with acoustics), although since these problems are with one particular advertiser's product, it probably isn't viable for them.

I am a software developer btw, and I drive a Skoda Octavia.

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3209
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: thejazzassassin]
      #730850 - 01/05/09 05:15 AM
Quote thejazzassassin:

Quote Len:

"Honda van, BMW, Lexus 430 and Lotus Espirit.." and of course a Lambo.

What a tosser.




Yea, what a tosser! The number of cars you have is intrinsically linked to how much of a knob you are, right? Right? Oh dear.




Jay Kay, anyone?

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3209
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #730854 - 01/05/09 05:36 AM
Quote reid:

He should be running Microsoft, by the sounds of it.




A cheap shot, Reid! You and I have crossed swords before, on the subject of Macs... (I'm a PC, you see)...

Windows XP is a good operating system, I've always been very happy with it, and Windows 98 wasn't bad either.

(the less said about ME the better... and I've never been tempted by Vista... I mean, why?)

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #730915 - 01/05/09 10:19 AM
Quote Richard Graham:

Quote reid:

He should be running Microsoft, by the sounds of it.


A cheap shot, Reid!




Well, most of the time that's all I'm good for on the SOS forums Richard. I can't deny it.

Quote Richard Graham:

You and I have crossed swords before, on the subject of Macs... (I'm a PC, you see)...




Have we? Blimey, I normally steer well clear of Mac vs. PC bickering - was this ages ago ? You'll be relieved to hear I'm now at the point where I believe that if a computer works as intended, it's good, if it doesn't then it's bad. Everything else is just noise.


Quote Richard Graham:

...and I drive a Skoda Octavia




Two Wheels Good here - no car at all. Though I like to think out chum Doug would approve - they were pointlessly expensive.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3209
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #730984 - 01/05/09 01:13 PM
Hi Reid, I totally agree with the "two wheels good" philosophy, and used to cycle 10 miles to and from work in all seasons, however I have a family which says different and since I'm the only driver I have the joy of ferrying everybody around in my polluting metal box, while getting stressed out, piling the pounds on through lack of excerise, and paying through the nose to burn up irreplaceable hydrocarbons.

But who am I to complain, at least I don't own any EastWest sample instruments. Or a computer with only one mouse button.

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #731003 - 01/05/09 01:59 PM
With you on the mouse..... recently got a new MacPro and the 'Mighty' (who are they trying to kid?) went straight to eBay. Have been getting total mousing satisfaction from a......wait for it....... Microsoft two button job, for the last 4 years. Oh the irony.

Do you think this thread is veering a bit too far off topic for the mods pain threshold to endure? Somebody say something bad about EastWest - quick!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #731117 - 01/05/09 10:15 PM
Quote Richard Graham:


Tui, you're fighting an impossible corner. It works (with some bugs, you've admitted) on your Macs... it seems you are lucky!




I'm not fighting any corners. Frankly, I find this thread (and its siblings over at gearslutz) rather amusing.

So I'm "lucky", for managing - apparently against all odds - to produce some 30 radio jingles, all of which featured PLAY instruments, without great difficulty? And the SOS reviewers were inexplicably lucky to not experience any major problems with PLAY? Furthermore, some on this forum seem to have strong opinions about PLAY, entirely based on hearsay, but without ever using it.

You'd have to admit, this has some comedy value.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #731266 - 02/05/09 06:30 PM
That's some fairly wild hearsay there Tui, given the number of working professionals on this and other boards who have expressed serious difficulties in running Play. The age old rules apply - just because it doesn't work on our systems, doesn't mean it isn't working for everyone, and conversely, just because it works on yours, doesn't mean it works on everyones...

Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 Pro's on this forum alone who have had massive difficulties with Play, and in my own circle of colleagues, not ONE of them has had a smooth ride, Mac OR PC.

So kindly give a thought to those who are having the problems you so enjoy deriding, even if you clearly cannot muster any sympathy.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3309
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #731284 - 02/05/09 08:02 PM
All I've seen on this thread so far is people carrying on about how bad PLAY is supposed to be. Not a single one of those who have problems with it have indicated that they've carried out basic troubleshooting, in order to determine what the cause might be. Do I feel sympathy for this sort of an approach? No.

When, on top of that, some other posters, who've never even used PLAY, chime in and declare that it doesn't work, I really begin to think we're in Monty Python territory.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Gelled_Fringe



Joined: 08/11/04
Posts: 442
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #731586 - 04/05/09 12:54 PM
Quote Tui:

I really begin to think we're in Monty Python territory.




I would agree insofar as you are the most surreal poster I have witnessed on these boards


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3209
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Tui]
      #731839 - 05/05/09 12:11 PM
Quote Tui:

All I've seen on this thread so far is people carrying on about how bad PLAY is supposed to be. Not a single one of those who have problems with it have indicated that they've carried out basic troubleshooting, in order to determine what the cause might be. Do I feel sympathy for this sort of an approach? No.

When, on top of that, some other posters, who've never even used PLAY, chime in and declare that it doesn't work, I really begin to think we're in Monty Python territory.




You mean the sketch where the bloke walks into a room, looking for an argument? I can see the similarities!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Wonks
active member


Joined: 29/05/03
Posts: 6367
Loc: Reading, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #731854 - 05/05/09 12:46 PM
Quote Richard Graham:

Quote Tui:

All I've seen on this thread so far is people carrying on about how bad PLAY is supposed to be. Not a single one of those who have problems with it have indicated that they've carried out basic troubleshooting, in order to determine what the cause might be. Do I feel sympathy for this sort of an approach? No.

When, on top of that, some other posters, who've never even used PLAY, chime in and declare that it doesn't work, I really begin to think we're in Monty Python territory.




You mean the sketch where the bloke walks into a room, looking for an argument? I can see the similarities!




No you can't.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
R. Spisketts



Joined: 29/01/05
Posts: 1319
Loc: Southsea
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #732140 - 06/05/09 12:01 PM
Oh yes he can.

--------------------
Funk this, arm half due wink a trump


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3209
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: R. Spisketts]
      #732157 - 06/05/09 12:41 PM
Quote malick:

Oh yes he can.




This isn't an argument: all you're doing is contradicting each other... automatic gainsaying.

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
redleicester
active member


Joined: 24/10/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: England's green and pleasant l...
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Richard Graham]
      #732159 - 06/05/09 12:44 PM
>DING<

I'm sorry your five minutes is up.

--------------------
Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Richard Graham



Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 3209
Loc: Gateshead, UK
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #732190 - 06/05/09 01:28 PM
That was never 5 minutes!

--------------------
"if you don't have much soul left and you know it, you still got soul" - Bukowski


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: redleicester]
      #732238 - 06/05/09 02:45 PM
Quote redleicester:

>DING<

I'm sorry your five minutes is up.




I'm appalled at the poor state of your grammar. Where was you educated?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Rousseau
active member


Joined: 17/05/04
Posts: 1133
Loc: down sarf
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #732316 - 06/05/09 06:06 PM
Quote reid:

Quote redleicester:

>DING<

I'm sorry your five minutes is up.




I'm appalled at the poor state of your grammar. Where was you educated?




In them thar frozen wastes of the north.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 31/08/05
Posts: 1693
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #742846 - 11/06/09 09:02 AM
Everything seems to have gone quiet on the PLAY front. So does it work then?

I am about to get some EW software and am worried after reading this!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion *]
      #742858 - 11/06/09 09:27 AM
I've heard that the latest software update has done a lot to straighten out the kinks in PLAY - a couple of 'real world' users who are on 2008/09 Mac Pros have said that they can now get acceptable use out of the Platinum orchestral lib, which was previously not the case on the old software.

Have to admit I'm now contemplating the unthinkable, and might jump on the latest 2-1 offer from EW...... Which ones have you gone for Sir F.F.?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 31/08/05
Posts: 1693
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #742866 - 11/06/09 09:57 AM
Quote reid:

I've heard that the latest software update has done a lot to straighten out the kinks in PLAY - a couple of 'real world' users who are on 2008/09 Mac Pros have said that they can now get acceptable use out of the Platinum orchestral lib, which was previously not the case on the old software.

Have to admit I'm now contemplating the unthinkable, and might jump on the latest 2-1 offer from EW...... Which ones have you gone for Sir F.F.?




Hi Reid. Well for my sins I have had a major upgrade so I got the composers collection - 7 progs for a grand. Also EW pianos. I already had EWSO platinum, but the guys building my pc said that doesn't work very well on this 64 system which meant that I had to fork out 142 on an upgrade to the play version of that too.

So if play is a nightmare, I ain't gonna be a happy bunny.

I haven't got the gear yet but that's a whole different story. I will report back on performance when/if my stuff arrives.

How's it working for you? You got much PLAY stuff?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 15/02/05
Posts: 2235
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion *]
      #743198 - 12/06/09 07:59 AM
I gave up on PLAY because it wouldn't run in any meaningful way on my Mac. I'm hoping against hope that my new MacPro combined with the new software update will be a different story...

For my sins, I've got SD2 (amazing sounds, but to my ears the MIDI performances aimed squarely at the trailers market, and the multis were just too glitchy to run) and Voices of Passion. Easier to get this one to run, but it's a bit of a niche product and no matter what the hype machine says, it's in no way Lisa-Gerrard-In-A-Box, more like Someone-Who-Heard-A-Lisa-Gerrard-CD-(Once)-In-A-Box.

I reckon you're either going to have lots of fun, or some kind of seizure once you've installed everything Sir F.F


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 31/08/05
Posts: 1693
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: * User requested deletion 2 *]
      #743233 - 12/06/09 09:54 AM
Quote reid:



I reckon you're either going to have lots of fun, or some kind of seizure once you've installed everything Sir F.F




If only you knew the torture I had gone through already...

(And I haven't even got it yet)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
* User requested
...




Joined: 31/08/05
Posts: 1693
Re: has anyone else found PLAY to be the most unstable plugin in the history of Earth? new [Re: Paul Farrer]
      #746487 - 23/06/09 09:19 AM
Thought I'd just give an update seeing as the PLAY engine has had such a slating on here.

Got my new setup sorted and I have to say that my PLAY products work beautifully!

Which is a bit of a surprise.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator     Back to top
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)

Rate this thread

Jump to

Extra Information
0 registered and 50 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  David Etheridge, James Perrett, zenguitar, Martin Walker, Forum Admin, Hugh Robjohns, Zukan, Frank Eleveld, SOS News Editor,  
Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled
Rating:
Thread views: 42412

January 2015
On sale now at main newsagents and bookstores (or buy direct from the
SOS Web Shop)
SOS current Print Magazine: click here for FULL Contents list
Click image for January 2015
DAW Tips from SOS

 

Home | Search | News | Current Issue | Tablet Mag | Articles | Forum | Blog | Subscribe | Shop | Readers Ads

Advertise | Information | Privacy Policy | Support | Login Help

 

Email: Contact SOS

Telephone: +44 (0)1954 789888

Fax: +44 (0)1954 789895

Registered Office: Media House, Trafalgar Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge, CB23 8SQ, United Kingdom.

Sound On Sound Ltd is registered in England and Wales.

Company number: 3015516 VAT number: GB 638 5307 26

         

All contents copyright © SOS Publications Group and/or its licensors, 1985-2014. All rights reserved.
The contents of this article are subject to worldwide copyright protection and reproduction in whole or part, whether mechanical or electronic, is expressly forbidden without the prior written consent of the Publishers. Great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the preparation of this article but neither Sound On Sound Limited nor the publishers can be held responsible for its contents. The views expressed are those of the contributors and not necessarily those of the publishers.

Web site designed & maintained by PB Associates | SOS | Relative Media