Please note that we are about to make some substantial changes to the forum structure, and as a result all of the forums will be closed on Friday 15th July and will reopen on Saturday 16th July if not before.

This should not affect your use of the rest of the site or your user account in any way.

You can read more about the changes here.

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Edited by Jennifer Jones (15/07/11 04:31 PM)

We have now completed all the necessary changes.

OVERVIEW OF THE CHANGES
You will notice that we have condensed the original structure from 33 forums to just 13.

MRT has been renamed to Recording & Production (R&P) - into which most of the forums that have been removed have been amalgamated. You'll be able to find all the posts in here in date order. Use the search facility at the bottom of the forum page to find threads you may have been interested in

One of the most substantial changes we've made is to allow promotional material - but this is quite complex. You'll notice a new forum on the index called "Product & Industry News". This replaces our "Latest News" forum, and is a place for manufacturers and distributors to post press releases and information relating to new products, updates, events, exhibitions, competitions, special offers and even job vacancies. Individuals are encouraged to post promotional material in any forum they wish - as long as they are not excessive about it. Additionally, any promotional material that is not considered relevant to the community (e.g. if someone's trying to flog gold jewellery...) then this will be removed. Please do not abuse these relaxed rules.

The forum rules have also changed, so you should take a look at these and make sure you have read and agree to the changes.

Finally, obviously we've updated the colour scheme a little bit. This is likely to change in the future, depending on the feedback we get!

SO WHAT IS ALLOWED AND WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED?
If you are an individual (i.e. you don't own a company that makes music gear or employs lots of people), you are free to post promotional material in any forum, but please make sure you are restrained about how frequently you post and how much you post.

If you are a manufacturer or distributor of music gear, or a company otherwise associated with music recording and production, you are free to post promotional material in the Product & Industry News, but PLEASE follow the guidelines included. You are NOT allowed to post promotional material in other forums. We have this restriction in place as we have a number of banner adverts on our site that are paid for - and many of our advertisers would get quite annoyed at the relaxed attitude of the forums. This is why we have a designated place for all 'free' advertising. We also have a readers' ads facility that you are welcome to use.


FINALLY...
As with all things, please be sensible about WHAT you post, WHERE you post and HOW MUCH you post, and the moderating team will be very happy.

Abuse of these rules will not be tolerated - anyone found to be in breach of these guidelines or the forum rules risks their posting rights being revoked and their posts removed.

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Ooo! How exciting! Here I am posting while the forums go through their transitional phase.. It's like, eerie! Ok, not really..

Anyway, Own up.. Who choose this rather camp shade of blue'y purple I am currently witnessing!?
If that doesn't deter those rogue spammers, nothing will

Happy Friday!

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Paul

WHY CHANGE IT ALL? It was fine as it was, and now it is dreadful.

No dedicated mics and micing.

So that's me out for good. I won't but the mag again either.

Agreed about the Microphone section... that was pretty much the only forum I used. This section surely warrants a section to itself? It's a huge area and I've had lots of help here and it's often interesting...

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Excess makes the heart grow fonder

User Reviews is missing as well as the Microphone section.

So, does this mean that all the old posts are lost?

Doesn't look very good at the moment.

Sorry.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Trying to find anything now is seriously hard work I simply can't understand the reason for jamming so many totally disparate topics together.

On a more serious note, where it the D.I.Y. warnings sticky thread? This is important stuff

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

ALL the previous posts still exist, but have been migrated in to the main forum.


not a single mic post is "missing" they're all in here somewhere...



we've tried the separate forums and specialised sections thing , in assorted forms, ever more disparate, for years , and i think it's fair to say we've have generally come to the conclusion that separating everything out, means many people , who only use 1 forum, out of many, never see things that might otherwise interest them, or respond with the benefit of their wisdom to posts that they know the answer to but never see because of their tendency to only inhabit one area... some people may feel the need to say "i told you so" from way back when we started V3 of the forums.




there's even some case to be made for only having ONE forum, and letting everything go on in there.... but that truly would be chaos.


however, a new balance is being found,.... it may yet change a little more....

so let's see how it goes

one cannot please all of the people all of the time...



and new shoes need a bit of wearing in.....

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Changing from MRT to Recording and Production seems to shift emphasis from technology (gear) to workflow.

Is that what was intended?

Also-I am very sorry to see the mic and mic technique forum go. That is, after all, both a very specialized area and a very large area.

It is too bad one will have to wade through oceans to to find needed information-and it won't be in one place, rather hundreds or thousands of tiny places.

I was both surprised and pleased when that forum was created.

As for colors: I think I've died and gone to IBM, Xerox, or MS for "permanant retirement." It seems cold and ugly to me, but that's all rather subjective. Admittedly, it might be churlish to complain about color, but since you asked..............

A question: Was there a big, obvious problem that needed fixing? If there was, I never encountered it nor did I see any mention of it. I suspect other forum participants didn't, either.

People do complain a great deal when their favorites forums are changed, so I'm sure we'll all give it a go.

This is an unmittigated disaster. A complete and total shambles.

It is an ABSOLUTELY UNBREAKABLE RULE of the International Guild of Programmers that whenever changes are made to an application or service, it MUST be accompanied by a change of colour scheme.

Apparantly.

Quote Jeraldo:

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Changing from MRT to Recording and Production seems to shift emphasis from technology (gear) to workflow.

Is that what was intended?

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I do hope so! The hobby is blighted by people with too much gear but no idea of what to do with it.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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I do hope so! The hobby is blighted by people with too much gear but no idea of what to do with it.

---

+1

OK, one more thing.

Was the logic that a reader would come to a completely unorganized überforum, and use an index or search function for every website visit?

I can only speak for myself, but I sense is that people like to *browse* forums for threads that match their interests.

Because that is really the only way the forums can now be deciphered. Recording and Production is now just one big ocean of unrelated threads.

Using an index and a search function for every visit is not fun. When one or two others above said something to the effect of "this is it for me," I thought the reaction was premature and extreme.

Well, now I see their point. I have no intention of leaving, it would be entirely my own loss. By the experience of visiting the forums has gone from enjoyment to wading through an unending disorganized mess.

Again: What was the problem that needed fixing? There is now a problem that needs fixing: How to find things of interest and relevance.

Quote Max!:

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ALL the previous posts still exist, but have been migrated in to the main forum.

---

So...
Where is that sticky SAFETY thread? The one that was right at the top of the D.I.Y section

As I said, this is serious.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Max!:

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ALL the previous posts still exist, but have been migrated in to the main forum.


not a single mic post is "missing" they're all in here somewhere...

---

Now that they're all "here somewhere", will you and your colleagues please organize them so they may be easily found?

Well, I'm willing to try the new arrangement (although I also mourn the loss of Microphones as a separate forum) but I worry that putting lots of the old forums into one super-forum will mean a very busy forum where stuff simply disappears of the bottom of the page very quickly and get missed. Threads start to fill with posts that have just one word in them: bump, simply in order to get the thread back to the top. I've seen this happen elsewhere and you might do well to watch out for this.

But I'm sorry, can we please, please have the old colour scheme back?

CC

Edit: it looks like it's only Firefox that's getting this repulsive collection of pinks and reds. Safari and IE9 are completely different and much more tolerable.

Edit 2: Sorry, Firefox has now caught up with the others now. All very confusing, really.

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Its a shame to lose the separate Microphones , Vintage, DIY & Music theory forums.
I always view 'Latest threads' so I'll still see all the posts but having sections was very useful for finding a subject that someone posted a few weeks / months ago.

Like the rationalised layout, but not liking the CPU our scheme. In fact, it's straining my eyes a bit!

Quote Folderol:

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Quote Max!:

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ALL the previous posts still exist, but have been migrated in to the main forum.

---

So...
Where is that sticky SAFETY thread? The one that was right at the top of the D.I.Y section

As I said, this is serious.

---

Just done a search for the SAFETY thread and made it a sticky one for everyone

We'll probably have to thin out the sticky threads a bit though so they don't become nwieldy


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

I know it's small consolation, but the changes to the structure are as new to us on the mod team as they are to everyone else and we need to learn our way around too. So I promise that we will be taking everything you say on board and doing our best to find solutions. And a big thanks to Max! for getting here so early and starting that process.

Folderol, I've already picked up your concerns about lost sticky posts and raised it with the management. I've asked if it would be possible to run a scan to find them and bring them back to the top of the page where they belong.

I am someone who read every post in a number of the forums that have disappeared, so I am still struggling to find my feet as well. Recording & Production has become a massive forum and it is easy to feel that more specialist interests are being ignored. However, what we were seeing was that people were confused over where to post and were resorting to multiple postings. Similar discussions were taking place in a number of the old forums with some members involved in all of them, and others just seeing a small part. It was common for members to link to threads in other parts of the forum.

Not counting the mods forum, I was a regular in 8 forums reading every post every day and contributing. But already I am seeing posts from people I have never seen before who have hundreds of posts to their name.

Yes, there will be a learning curve for all of us, but on balance I am sure we can find a way to make the new structure work better for us all. Maybe we just need to think about how we use the subject line when starting new threads.

And keep letting us know what you think.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

---

Folderol, I've already picked up your concerns about lost sticky posts and raised it with the management. I've asked if it would be possible to run a scan to find them and bring them back to the top of the page where they belong.

---

Less sticky threads, not more, please. It's too hard to spot the real content (ie. non-sticky) threads now.

Then again, hopefully we don't need 2 on copyright, 2 on rules, 2 on students and homework.

As for copyright, I'd have thought such issues now belong in the new Music Business forum.

Whither noobs?

Or maybe the intention WAS to put them off?

Dave.

Forum looks weird...

The logo is red, so I'd have assumed the forum to incorporate that, not a random lilac.

I know some people aren't happy with less sub-forums but it looks better at first glance, so is better for a noob or someone like myself who doesn't visit too often. I'm surprised there was no consultation with your membership though (I guess the consultation happens now when a number of people air their views, people don't like change though).

Consultation Mo'?
Since when has ANY forum been a democracy?

"Basic Rule of The Corporate Universe"
Organizations with even only a small amount of "power" will only give up the barest smidgeon of that power when pressed very hard and only then after shouting BBMurder about it!

But, SoS are one of the best and I shall stay and be a thorn.

Dave (aka cynical old bugger)

Quote ef37a:

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Consultation Mo'?
Since when has ANY forum been a democracy?

---

True, but forum's are VERY fickle. The reason people come here is because they like what it currently is, so if you are wishing to spend resources, time, effort in making changes it would be sensible to put forward what you propose.

I've been on a number of forums who made changes, and in almost every occasion people have preferred the previous incarnation. So for me, inviting maybe a focus group of people who actually use the place to bounce ideas off would make the whole thing smoother, and will stop you (SOS) wasting time reversing some of the changes that the readership would prefer not to have.

I'm not too fussed either way, I come here for the content but the previous one was nicer to use.. whether that was just familiarity more than anything though...

"Surveys" are anathema to me!
Two examples:

Yesterday I wanted the XP drivers for an M-A fasttpro. Blinking page of totally unneeded questions! (tip, don't answer, you still get your drivers!) THEN to add I to I they popped up ANOTHER bloody questionare for me to fill in afterwards.

2) Over some weeks I have been having a running ding dong with Dabs Ireland. At one point I mentioned it would not be long before Market Research sent me a form? Sure enough a day or so later one arrived! Needless to say I filled it in to say their customer service was whale poo!
Same with BT. In fact it seems a rule that the more Byzantine the company the more pages the survey runs to. I tell them to pay more and better staff to man the 'puters and stop wasting time and money on surveys!

Dave.

I can live with a lot of the changes - but losing all the User Reviews was a bit drastic.

There is no other area to put them, other than in the Product and Industry News area and this area is totally empty. A sticky at the top of this to User Reviews would have been a good idea.

Are they really all lost for good?

If I had thought this I would have saved various ones.

Microphones and mic. technique really *did* need a forum of its own. It was good when it started and sad now.

The problem with larger forums is that you *have* to look every day and posts easily get lost in the mass of others.

A fix needed, but not done, it seems, is the one to jump to first unread post that all other forums have - this is needed even more when you have fewer forums with a higher throughput.

Colour - I preferred the old colour - the SOS forum was definitely the best of them all and, unfortunately, these changes seem to have downgraded the forum rather than upgrading it.

Sorry - I am not moaning for the sake of it, as the SOS forum was the best of the lot and I can see that some of the changes make sense. But it does seem that the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater in some instances.

--------------------
John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Just noticed that the User Review sticky is in the main forum - Please - NO.

The reviews will get totally lost in traffic and will be impossible to find if you need to link to a review in another post.

Please put them back in their own forum - or incorporate them into the Product and Industry News forum!

Sorry - getting more unhappy the more I look.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

In any thread, I'm probably going to end up reading the message at the bottom of the page.

SOME of the navigation choices are duplicated here. But not the two I'm most likely to need - My Home and Today's Active Topics. So I have to scroll back up to the top.

I would just add that some of the organisational aspects are likely to be an ongoing process.....

creating forums is relatively easy and painless, MIGRATING them is a PITA.... and doing so wholesale requires temporary closure of the forum.... but streamlining was felt necessary....


for the time being, i would suggest people tag their subject matter headings , so, if your post is about something you would have posted in the MIC forum, SAY SO.... SO , thread title should read

" MICS: does the shure sm58 hurt when you drop it on your foot? "

" DIY: the tracks are lifting when i try and solder these components what am i doing wrong? "


"REVIEW: I just bought a new toy and it's fabulous "



this makes it easier for people to find, and in the event of any further restructuring , easier for us to move stuff.

--------------------
if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Quote:

---

for the time being, i would suggest people tag their subject matter headings , so, if your post is about something you would have posted in the MIC forum, SAY SO

---

At risk of upsetting you, you're assuming everyone will A/ read this instruction, B/ actually do it... this system emphasizes that something has gone a bit wrong as far as I can tell.

I for one won't really use SOS forums without a dedicated Mic & Techniques section because I've had so much help, knowledge and expertise from there. I get my advice on DAW's & OS's in more dedicated forums.

Thats what forums are all about at the end of the day... choice and flexibility. Imagine if http://www.freeforums.org/ decided to merge all their content under 'bands'. I want to discuss Chas and Dave and others are banging on about U2.

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Excess makes the heart grow fonder

Quote chris...:

---

Quote zenguitar:

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Folderol, I've already picked up your concerns about lost sticky posts and raised it with the management. I've asked if it would be possible to run a scan to find them and bring them back to the top of the page where they belong.

---

Less sticky threads, not more, please. It's too hard to spot the real content (ie. non-sticky) threads now.

Then again, hopefully we don't need 2 on copyright, 2 on rules, 2 on students and homework.

As for copyright, I'd have thought such issues now belong in the new Music Business forum.

---

I agree Chris, and I know Martin feels the same. We need to do some housekeeping with the stickies, remove the duplicates and ones that are no longer appropriate.

Quote ef37a:

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Whither noobs?

Or maybe the intention WAS to put them off?

Dave.

---

Definitely not putting off the noobs Dave, we were still getting lots of newbie questions in the other forums and the Newbie Forum was becoming a spam magnet. Newbies are welcome throughout the forums.

As for consultation, the management discussed the changes extensively with the Mod Team. And people forget that the mods are long standing members and users of the forum as well.

The starting point for the re-organisation was that there were too many forums and there was a sense that new visitors to the site were uncertain where to post. The same keyboards were being discussed in Vintage, Keyboards, MRT and even PC Music; despite there being a dedicated microphones forum, there were plenty of microphones and technique questions spread across the other forums; members were posting their mini reviews of equipment across the forums.

Yes, everyone had a clear idea of what the old forums were for, but that was often very different than other people's ideas about the same forum. Vintage Gear was very much like that, full of disputes and arguments that essentially came down to "you just don't get it!!!!"

For each of the old forums there was a perfectly good case for keeping it. But that would leave us back at square one, with too many forums. The new forums were created by merging the old forums. No thread or post has been removed, and a search will find them.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

So far I haven't read any rational positive reason for these changes which I view as being a backward step.

Particularly, the abolishment of the Mics forum is a great disappointment. I enjoy these fora because you can focus in on a particular area and not have to wade through rubbish. Now several fora are merged it will become frustrating and more time consuming to sift through.

It all seems like a dumbing down exercise. Gearslutz here we come!

And for Max to suggest we should tag threads is utter nonsense and a clear admission that this has been a mistake.

I strongly suggest you revert to the previous range of fora before you are further embarrassed.

By the way, I don't care what it looks like, it's content that counts.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

maybe instead of trying to suggest helpful solutions that make both user and administrative lives a bit easier, he should just keep his trap shut then Bob???

Quote zenguitar:

---

The starting point for the re-organisation was that there were too many forums and there was a sense that new visitors to the site were uncertain where to post.

---

Talk about using a sledge hammer to crack a nut........

So because some people posted in the wrong fora, everyone now has to wade through a handful of general fora - has this really been thought through?

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

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maybe instead of trying to suggest helpful solutions that make both user and administrative lives a bit easier, he should just keep his trap shut then Bob???

---

But he's really saying the new system isn't going to work and that we'll need to tag threads in order to find them, which of course won't work as most people won't, so how is that an improvement?

I'm happy for mods to suggest solutions that make both user and administrative lives a bit easier...................... reverting to fora users would like would be a very good start!

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

no I wasn't saying that Bob... I was merely making a suggestion that i thought helpful. no subtext implied, or intended .

i would also add that a number of other users have already said they rather like many aspects of the new format....


but given the number of registered users, we know that we're never going to please everyone.... about everything,..... that won't stop us trying however...

i still say it's a work in progress... there are bits and pieces that haven't come out quite as expected i think, and there are some permissions issues, and graphic issues to be nailed down, and so on....

--------------------
if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Yes, accept there's a settling down process with technical aspects, no problem there, but settling down won't change the fact that interesting (for me), more specialist fora have been merged.........

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote siderealxxx:

---

Quote:

---

for the time being, i would suggest people tag their subject matter headings , so, if your post is about something you would have posted in the MIC forum, SAY SO

---

At risk of upsetting you, you're assuming everyone will A/ read this instruction, B/ actually do it... this system emphasizes that something has gone a bit wrong as far as I can tell.

I for one won't really use SOS forums without a dedicated Mic & Techniques section because I've had so much help, knowledge and expertise from there. I get my advice on DAW's & OS's in more dedicated forums

Thats what forums are all about at the end of the day... choice and flexibility. Imagine if http://www.freeforums.org/ decided to merge all their content under 'bands'. I want to discuss Chas and Dave and others are banging on about U2.

---

Sorry mate you haven't twigged it yet. SoS is a business and like most others they run their "customer communication" to THEIR rules and convenience not ours. The spam point is revealing...
In over 3000 posts and more lookings in I have never found spam a problem and my first port of call is (was!) the noob section*. Spam bothers administartion, noob section attracts spam, orf!

Don't get me wrong I love and will still love the forum for the first class information we get. But the Money Men has spake.

Then there is the lack of logic: I am, as you might expect happy that guitars (and amps) has not been chopped but if THAT is valid specialized area why IHN are not microphones and preamps?

*I am, in so many ways, still a noob.

No doubt I shall blunder around with you all and find what I need!

Dave.

I don't quite notice anything different.

Have they changed yet?

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http://www.homerecordingstudio.ca
http://www.digitalsoundmagic.com

and what about those of us interested , and experienced , in a wide range of different subject matter?? well, OUR forum experience has just become a whole load simpler.... I might now actually answer more questions, since i don't have to go hunting for them.....

Quote zenguitar:

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I know it's small consolation, but the changes to the structure are as new to us on the mod team as they are to everyone else and we need to learn our way around too.

---

OK, so:

1. Mods are having problems.
+
2. Participants are having problems

=Everyone is having problems.

Obviously, the as yet unnamed problem has had a fix worse than the problem!

What was *the problem* that was crying out to be fixed?

Quote zenguitar:

---

And a big thanks to Max! for getting here so early and starting that process.

---

For simply throwing everything in a "it's all in here, somewhere" place?

*This* was an organizational achievement?

Quote zenguitar:

---

olderol, I've already picked up your concerns about lost sticky posts and raised it with the management. I've asked if it would be possible to run a scan to find them and bring them back to the top of the page where they belong.

---

Is there anything that was *not* overlooked?

Quote zenguitar:

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am someone who read every post in a number of the forums that have disappeared, so I am still struggling to find my feet as well.

---

Again, if you and everyone are "struggling to find [your] feet," this was no fix to a still unnamed problem.

Quote zenguitar:

---

Similar discussions were taking place in a number of the old forums with some members involved in all of them, and others just seeing a small part. It was common for members to link to threads in other parts of the forum.

---

Wow! That means the organizational system was working and members saw the structure and included *links* in posts for reference.

I would view that participant behavior as the ultimate validation of a useful and understood organizational system!

Quote zenguitar:

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es, there will be a learning curve for all of us, but on balance I am sure we can find a way to make the new structure work better for us all.

---

*Why* should there be a learning curve at all? (Rhetorical question)

Answer: Because this forum has no organization.

*What* was the problem that prompted this ridiculous fix of removing all organization from these previously existing subject areas?

Whatever the problem was, removing all organization is not a fix!

Quote zenguitar:

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aybe we just need to think about how we use the subject line when starting new threads.

---

PLEASE NOTE: We are NOT having problems with subject lines!

We are having trouble with FINDING THE SUBJECTS!!!

Quote zenguitar:

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nd keep letting us know what you think.

---

OK.

Why weren't we asked what we think **before** this absurd "disorganization" was executed?

Now again, please, if only for curiosity:

What was the problem that needed fixing?

I'm still having trouble reverse engineering this huge problem that was fixed.

What might the problem have been that was solved by removing organization from the forum?

Just to show it's not universally disliked....
I quite like the new system.

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.

changes work for me, color schemes good... of course i've always been one to need constant change...

i do agree with the Exalted one regarding the bottom of the page though, it could use a today's active topics link...

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Quote zenguitar:

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The starting point for the re-organisation was that there were too many forums and there was a sense that new visitors to the site were uncertain where to post.

---

Talk about using a sledge hammer to crack a nut........

So because some people posted in the wrong fora, everyone now has to wade through a handful of general fora - has this really been thought through?

Bob

---

As you quoted me, the key word is AND. In other words, 'there were too many forums' AND 'there was a sense that new visitors to the site were uncertain where to post'

So, quite clearly we are not talking about using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The changes have been thoroughly thought through, and the starting point for that was the view of the publishers that Recording & Production should be a broad forum encompassing all the techniques and disciplines from tracking, through mixing, to mastering. To have all the main topics of interest for SOS readers and forum visitors together in one place rather than having to search through several different forums.

Max's suggestion to use key words or phrases in the subject line is not a tacit admission that the re-organisation hasn't worked. I have raised the same subject in the mods forum for discussion, and I suggested it there. And the reason for that is that we have picked up from the posts that some members would miss the small communities and relationships that they had built in the merged forums. Using key phrases or words might help you find the threads you are interested in without having to read everything.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote Jeraldo:

---

Now again, please, if only for curiosity:

What was the problem that needed fixing?

I'm still having trouble reverse engineering this huge problem that was fixed.

What might the problem have been that was solved by removing organization from the forum?

---

I was writing my previous post while you were writing yours Jeraldo.

As you can see, it is not about solving a problem so nothing to reverse engineer. It is the decision of the publishers over the direction they wish to take the forums.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

---

Quote Bob Bickerton:

---

Quote zenguitar:

---

The starting point for the re-organisation was that there were too many forums and there was a sense that new visitors to the site were uncertain where to post.

---

Talk about using a sledge hammer to crack a nut........

So because some people posted in the wrong fora, everyone now has to wade through a handful of general fora - has this really been thought through?

Bob

---

As you quoted me, the key word is AND. In other words, 'there were too many forums' AND 'there was a sense that new visitors to the site were uncertain where to post'

So, quite clearly we are not talking about using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The changes have been thoroughly thought through, and the starting point for that was the view of the publishers that Recording & Production should be a broad forum encompassing all the techniques and disciplines from tracking, through mixing, to mastering. To have all the main topics of interest for SOS readers and forum visitors together in one place rather than having to search through several different forums.

Max's suggestion to use key words or phrases in the subject line is not a tacit admission that the re-organisation hasn't worked. I have raised the same subject in the mods forum for discussion, and I suggested it there. And the reason for that is that we have picked up from the posts that some members would miss the small communities and relationships that they had built in the merged forums. Using key phrases or words might help you find the threads you are interested in without having to read everything.

Andy

---

Some of us might be interested to know:

What was the huge and pressing problem that has now been fixed by this forum revision achievement?

And what exactly is it that has been achieved?

Quote zenguitar:

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Quote Jeraldo:

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Now again, please, if only for curiosity:

What was the problem that needed fixing?

I'm still having trouble reverse engineering this huge problem that was fixed.

What might the problem have been that was solved by removing organization from the forum?

---

I was writing my previous post while you were writing yours Jeraldo.

As you can see, it is not about solving a problem so nothing to reverse engineer. It is the decision of the publishers over the direction they wish to take the forums.

Andy

---

Ah! So it is either the "New broom" or the "Have to be seen to be doing something syndrome" by the suits.

The "real" staff have all my sympathy.

Dave.

Text still doesn't scale well in Safari. Beyond a certain font size, typed text disappears behind the grey border, to the left or right of the Reply Box. Advertising still overlaps with text at the top of the page. Meh.

The fact that the number of forum topics has been reduced seems to indicate that SOS' web presence is contracting, rather than expanding. I would have hoped for an increased number of topics that are better organized and easier to access. Getting rid of user reviews and microphone techniques is just bizarre.

What exactly do you mean by that, Dave?

The decision to change the forums has been one heavily discussed in great detail both at SOS Towers and simultaneously amongst the moderation team. Once we reached a consensus and made sure to modify plans to accommodate individual opinions, we then implemented the changes.

Each of the staff at SOS is 'real' in the sense that we were all involved in this process. Similarly, our moderating team who do a pretty fine job of taking care of things whilst we're busy trying to make a monthly mag(!) are no less 'real' in terms of their massive input and energy.

Just sayin'.

--------------------
SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

"What exactly do you mean by that, Dave?"

Well, you know those pillocks in suits that wander around Waitrose, Sainbury etc with a clipboard and walk past the tills pretending not to see the 6deep ques and squalling ankle biters?

SoS would be a uniquie organization IMHO if they did not have a few of those on the "top floor"...Think some one let the word "publishers" slip?

Dave (again, aka COB!)

Blimey, vintage gear's gone, mics & techniques likewise. Quite a disappointment on my first visit to the new forum.

I used to like this forum precisely because I could browse/post/read in a specific subject area without wading through masses of unrelated stuff. Maybe there were some things that put the uninitiated off, but it seems a little strange to have made everything harder to find.

I liked browsing in the above (RIP) sections to see what was being posted: I am unlikely to wade through pages of questions about Behringer compressors and the like to discover a discussion about the Ursa Major Space Station (whilst actually looking for info on a vintage valve amp).

I've been a subscriber for years and have always found the forum a brilliant resource and place for engaging (and usually informed) debate; I guess I'll be here a lot less often now...

If it ain't broke...

Quote ef37a:

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"What exactly do you mean by that, Dave?"

Well, you know those pillocks in suits that wander around Waitrose, Sainbury etc with a clipboard and walk past the tills pretending not to see the 6deep ques and squalling ankle biters?

SoS would be a uniquie organization IMHO if they did not have a few of those on the "top floor"...Think some one let the word "publishers" slip?

Dave (again, aka COB!)

---

I understand your point, but as I said in my post this is not what has happened here. I think when Andy said that the decision was the publishers', I think he means SOS as a whole, as that's what we do - publish our own magazine (and Smart Guides).

It wasn't the case that one or two guys in a suit in an executive position who didn't have a clue just randomly decided to change everything We're a very small organisation and actually I can't think of anyone who fits this description.

As I said, what actually happened was long discussions went on at SOS with a whole variety of staff, as well as with the moderating team. Every single person's input was considered, to the extent that we spent a long time waiting for various individuals' feedback before progressing to making decisions on things. It really has been a collaborative effort and not a 'from the top' kind of thing, although clearly it was someone from the top who initially decided we'd have a reshuffle in the first place

The whole process has been going on quite some time - my personal involvement has been to the tune of probably at least a month, and there may well have been other discussions prior to that that I was not included in.

I hope this helps to clarify things

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Quote Jennifer Jones:

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As I said, what actually happened was long discussions went on at SOS with a whole variety of staff, as well as with the moderating team. Every single person's input was considered, to the extent that we spent a long time waiting for various individuals' feedback before progressing to making decisions on things. It really has been a collaborative effort and not a 'from the top' kind of thing, although clearly it was someone from the top who initially decided we'd have a reshuffle in the first place

---

Designed by committee?!

Erm...well ok Jennifer points taken, still does not answer those who ask for a reason (I am still of a mind that "they" did not need one other than w' waving).

Why are guitars amps "cosy communities" and not mics and pres? Maybe one of the non existant suits plays guitar?

How about this as a SUGGESTION not a threat..
All those in favour of the changes carry on.
All those against don't post from midnight tonight till midnight Sunday.

Dave.

Quote Jennifer Jones:

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As I said, what actually happened was long discussions went on at SOS with a whole variety of staff, as well as with the moderating team. Every single person's input was considered, to the extent that we spent a long time waiting for various individuals' feedback before progressing to making decisions on things.

---

After which, I REALLY hope someone who knew what he was about considered all opinions, ignored most of them, and made some decisions! Otherwise you'd have got a classic "designed by committee" lash-up!

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Jennifer Jones:

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As I said, what actually happened was long discussions went on at SOS with a whole variety of staff, as well as with the moderating team. Every single person's input was considered, to the extent that we spent a long time waiting for various individuals' feedback before progressing to making decisions on things.

---

After which, I REALLY hope someone who knew what he was about considered all opinions, ignored most of them, and made some decisions! Otherwise you'd have got a classic "designed by committee" lash-up!

---

Sound on Sound forum AKA The Camel!
(sorry, CNR!)
Dave.

The thing that really saddens me is that the different sections seemed to have different characters too. They were FUN to dip into.

There were only a few I actively contributed to - not only for interest reasons but also available time - but I had a quick look in the others occasionally to see what the 'neighbors' were up to.

That's all gone now. No atmosphere, and a major trawl to find the stuff I'm interested in. Not much fun there

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Folderol:

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The thing that really saddens me is that the different sections seemed to have different characters too. They were FUN to dip into.

There were only a few I actively contributed to - not only for interest reasons but also available time - but I had a quick look in the others occasionally to see what the 'neighbors' were up to.

That's all gone now. No atmosphere, and a major trawl to find the stuff I'm interested in. Not much fun there

---

Quite agree.
Now for all the bubby-buddy noises from "da management" I cannot believe that some strong minded individual did not have the balls to say "this is all Blllx! The readers will have our tripes out!"

Be intersting to see what staff get "shuffled" in the coming months.

Dave (you might have gathered that I have worked for some rite bastards! But not in the last 3years IHTA!)

Dave.

Quote Folderol:

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The thing that really saddens me is that the different sections seemed to have different characters too. They were FUN to dip into.

---

Agreed! They were all *fun,* and it was fun to visit different places (forums), too.

Quote Folderol:

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There were only a few I actively contributed to - not only for interest reasons but also available time - but I had a quick look in the others occasionally to see what the 'neighbors' were up to.

---

Same here, loved to find the ones the *neighbors* in the forums closest to my interests-and loved to visit the "other countries," too.

Quote Folderol:

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That's all gone now. No atmosphere, and a major trawl to find the stuff I'm interested in. Not much fun there

---

*Atmosphere* Couldn't have said it any better. And atmosphere is probably the single greatest distinction of SOS forums vs every other similar forums the world over.

Atmosphere, fun, and neighbors have no place in this brutish reorganizational achievement.

In my work, I would be fired for walking in and creating a disorganized mess.

Quote Jeraldo:

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*Atmosphere* Couldn't have said it any better. And atmosphere is probably the single greatest distinction of SOS forums vs every other similar forums the world over.

Atmosphere, fun, and neighbors have no place in this brutish reorganizational achievement.

In my work, I would be fired for walking in and creating a disorganized mess.

---

It's not the atmosphere that gives it the distinction, it's the regular posters and it is the posters who create that atmosphere...

i browse all forums the same way, todays posts, and i can tell the differences simply by that disorganized method...

that being said i don't find it disorganized, yall just don't take to change well that's all, no biggie, just give it some time...

Post deleted by Jeraldo

Quote Jeraldo:

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I was writing my previous post while you were writing yours Jeraldo.

As you can see, it is not about solving a problem so nothing to reverse engineer. It is the decision of the publishers over the direction they wish to take the forums.

Andy

---

Andy-If it's a fait accompli, then it's awfully hard to understand why comments are being solicited, or even why the little "pre-announcements" were made.


However:


FIrst, thank you for not taking my post(s) personally!

Secondly, thanks for responding to my post!

And thirdly-probably not your department- what were the publishers thinking?!

In a completely unrelated matter-but now it seems very much related:

I was just about to renew my electronic zine subscription for 2 years and add the printed magazine to that as well. But now I'm wondering what glorious plans are being made for the magazine. That's on hold for now.

Right! I am off to me pit.
I shall see you all again on Monday.

Dave.

I can no longer see the mastering forum, has it upped and orfed ?

Edit: Ok I can see it is now combined with this big forum, well no big troubles, I like this forum and enjoy being a member and look forward to continued audio related postings.

SafeandSound Mastering

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Mastering online mastering

Quote zenguitar:

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Max's suggestion to use key words or phrases in the subject line is not a tacit admission that the re-organisation hasn't worked. I have raised the same subject in the mods forum for discussion, and I suggested it there. And the reason for that is that we have picked up from the posts that some members would miss the small communities and relationships that they had built in the merged forums. Using key phrases or words might help you find the threads you are interested in without having to read everything.

Andy

---

Sorry, this is completely unconvincing.

What I'm hearing is that because newcomers have had difficulty finding topics or understanding the forum structure, or that people are posting in the wrong areas, you think it will be simpler to lump everything into one place?

That's seriously not a solution! Come on, it's like saying I can't find anything in my filing cabinet, because a few people have misfiled a few things and some people can't read the folder headings - so I'll just throw the whole lot in a pile on the floor instead.

What I like about these fora is the fact that there are specialist areas you can subscribe to and have intelligent (sometimes) discussion with people, if you do away with those, and people walk away because the whole thing is dumbed down, then the quality of discussion will deteriorate, which will lead to more folk leaving, which would lead to the inevitable.................

And if there's issues with newbies or misfiles, then create better decriptors for each forum and have them at the head of the forum.

Even better, why not have a standard 'First Post' page for all fora, the first part of which is an option to select which forum you want to post in, along with a pop up description of that forum.

I'm still waiting for a rational reason why these changes have been made, I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories, but..............

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

I'm sorry Bob, but whether you find it convincing or not, you have happily quoted a paragraph from my post when the remainder of my post you haven't quoted answers your question.

What you insist on hearing is that the restructuring is to solve the 'problem' that people are posting in the 'wrong areas'. But what we are saying is that SOS has decided after much thought and discussion that the direction of the forums should be to bring those related topics together under the broad banner of Recording & Production.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote Jeraldo:

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Andy-If it's a fait accompli, then it's awfully hard to understand why comments are being solicited, or even why the little "pre-announcements" were made.

---

That's a fair comment Jeraldo. The honest answer is that whatever the broad changes are, we still want to make the forum as a whole work. The pre-announcements were to let people know that the forums would be unavailable during the re-organisation period, so if you couldn't get in you could be sure it was us, not your browser settings, user name, or password. Common decency. Soliciting comments is about picking up details that might have been missed, or were not possible to predict (such as handling the sticky threads from the merged forums). As a Mod Team we can learn from people's experiences and use that to help others through the changes.

Yes, this is version 3 of the SOS forums and this is the biggest change since we switched from Version 2 to Version 3. But if I can speak personally, what I would say is something I learned many years ago. When things change people often leap to decide whether it is better or worse, but in my experience things are rarely better or worse, just different. And to put that in context, I clicked on your user name in the same way that anyone can and looked at your last 200 posts Jeraldo. Well over 90% of your posts have been merged into Recording & Production, the main effect of the forum reorganisation is to bring all of your interests together so you can find them largely in one forum.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Maybe those of us who are subscribers and are unhappy with the changes should unsubscribe for a while in protest?

Quote zenguitar:

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I'm sorry Bob, but whether you find it convincing or not, you have happily quoted a paragraph from my post when the remainder of my post you haven't quoted answers your question.

What you insist on hearing is that the restructuring is to solve the 'problem' that people are posting in the 'wrong areas'. But what we are saying is that SOS has decided after much thought and discussion that the direction of the forums should be to bring those related topics together under the broad banner of Recording & Production.

Andy

---

Apologies for not including all your paragraphs in my quote, but I was concentrating on the aspect of our discussion where on the one hand mods are saying a combined forum is good news for everyone whilst on the other they are saying we should tag posts in order to find topics within a larger forum - an absolute contradiction.

Of course change happens, no problems there, but I would expect change for the better. I'm well able to read the reasons given for the changes that have occurred, but if this is to be the best place for people interested in in-depth technical sound discussions in the world, and it has been, then I'd have thought a range of fora dealing with many different aspects of live sound, recording, etc would be preferable.

For me it's really mics and mic technique that I'll miss. Sure I visit the MRT forum too, but there's not the same sense of community there and I predict even less so now.

Being somewhat isolated geographically, it's the sense of community I treasure.........

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Perhaps we could have a poll in which we can all vote for or against the changes. It would be interesting to know whether those of us who are not happy with the changes represent a majority viewpoint or are just a noisy bunch of malcontents.

A poll please - I'd really like to know!

CC

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

At the risk of getting the "sucking-up" taunts that usually follow my comments on such matters, can we not keep a sense of proportion here?

It's a music technology forum! That's all!

FWIW there are aspects that I'm finding 'difficult', but, hey, I'll get used to it... It's still the best of this type of forum by a considerable margin.

... and a mention for Jennifer who's probably done most of the work in implementing the changes... the forums came back quicker than I was expecting with no tech glitches that I've found. Good work there J!

How does one delete membership? In My Account I can't see any way of doing this.

Quote Mike Stranks:

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At the risk of getting the "sucking-up" taunts that usually follow my comments on such matters, can we not keep a sense of proportion here?

It's a music technology forum! That's all!

FWIW there are aspects that I'm finding 'difficult', but, hey, I'll get used to it... It's still the best of this type of forum by a considerable margin.

... and a mention for Jennifer who's probably done most of the work in implementing the changes... the forums came back quicker than I was expecting with no tech glitches that I've found. Good work there J!

---

Agreed.

The old forum wasn't perfect, the current one isn't, and the next one won't be either- but it's still my favourite.

I don't care what the reasons for changing the forums were (I don't pay to be here, so none of my business really) , it has happened and the world still spins!

People are already using them, and looking at the posts there are contributions from both new members and old ones.

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Cubase, guitars.

Quote Mike Stranks:

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At the risk of getting the "sucking-up" taunts that usually follow my comments on such matters, can we not keep a sense of proportion here?

It's a music technology forum! That's all!

---

Yes but it was a good one and now I'm not so sure. I guess I'm particularly unlucky in that all but one of the forums I would visit have been merged or binned. So here I am with my morning coffee browsing SOS and ... well ... it's just not very interesting.

I mean take the mic section. I have no interest in mics so I'd never visit but I was really happy there was a bunch of people over on that side of the room grooving on their love for mics.

I think the "publishers" have made a massive gaffe and they should just admit it. I guess we'll see who is right in the next round of "stats" but I for one have no interest in posting into a massive forum (P&T) where posts disappear off the bottom of the page within a few hours. I think plenty of other people feel the same too.

But yeah it's only a music tech forum ... only a magazine ... only a reputation ... only some advertising revenue ... only a few peoples jobs Etc

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Good god! I post here as much as the next man so can be accused of not having a life...but really....this is a source of info and sharing experiences NOT the United Nations.Give this time folks! Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

I guess the passion comes from the fact that this IS peoples life.

Music means so much for so many people. My name is Barry, I am a music addict.

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Mastering online mastering

We obviously fear change but this is going to take a lot of getting used to. So what if we only visited one niche forum and we might be missing out on a lot of content in other forums....surely that is our choice. Newspapers dont stick recipies and sports news on page two, just in case their readers miss out by not reading all the paper. As a regular viewer of the musis biz forum I'm now confronted by someone considering changing their broadband package, great news.

This is not good.

Rant over

It's just like with everything else, isn't it. Some companies like to tell you that, by cutting back services, the remaining ones are going to work out so much better for you. Think banks, trains and busses, or postal services.

I imagine a reduced number of forums is easier to supervise for the mods. If so, we're looking at an exercise in rationalization.

Quote turbodave:

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Good god! I post here as much as the next man so can be accused of not having a life...but really....this is a source of info and sharing experiences NOT the United Nations.Give this time folks! Dave

---

Yes!!

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madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt

I'm quiting. Seriously, I came for the mics, diy and linux sections and now I have to wade to loads of stuff that doesn't really interest me instead of getting it clearly separated. Sorry but I don't have time for that. Together with the backward fixed width layout (using 1920x1200) there just isn't anything left.

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Expert in non-working solutions

Quote Havoc:

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I'm quiting. Seriously, I came for the mics, diy and linux sections and now I have to wade to loads of stuff that doesn't really interest me instead of getting it clearly separated. Sorry but I don't have time for that. Together with the backward fixed width layout (using 1920x1200) there just isn't anything left.

---

'Bye then. We didn't know you were here, we won't notice you've gone. Have a nice rest of your life.

Quote Havoc:

---

I'm quiting. Seriously, I came for the mics, diy and linux sections and now I have to wade to loads of stuff that doesn't really interest me instead of getting it clearly separated. Sorry but I don't have time for that. Together with the backward fixed width layout (using 1920x1200) there just isn't anything left.

---

Hey Havoc,

I too am not a fan of the fixed-width layout, it wastes so much of the expensive screen acreage I and practically everybody else has paid for for the purposes of using a DAW. Also I'm a little piqued at the aggregation of some of the specialist fora into more general topics, but I doubt everything is set in stone and these things always have teething problems.

Give it a bit of time, p-p-please!

Reg

Paid for screen acreage? What is this, 19th century land reform?

--------------------
madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt

Quote Tomás Mulcahy:

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Paid for screen acreage? What is this, 19th century land reform?

---

Yes

Quote RegressiveRock:

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I too am not a fan of the fixed-width layout, it wastes so much of the expensive screen acreage I and practically everybody else has paid for for the purposes of using a DAW.

---

Put a long text document up on screen - an ebook perhaps. Do you find it easy to read stretched across the full width of one of today's wide-format screens?

If you look around the internet you'll actually find very few liquid web designs now.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote RegressiveRock:

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I too am not a fan of the fixed-width layout, it wastes so much of the expensive screen acreage I and practically everybody else has paid for for the purposes of using a DAW.

---

Put a long text document up on screen - an ebook perhaps. Do you find it easy to read stretched across the full width of one of today's wide-format screens?

If you look around the internet you'll actually find very few liquid web designs now.

---

I'm ancient and hence used to reading scrolls anyway.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Havoc:

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I'm quiting. Seriously, I came for the mics, diy and linux sections and now I have to wade to loads of stuff that doesn't really interest me instead of getting it clearly separated. Sorry but I don't have time for that. Together with the backward fixed width layout (using 1920x1200) there just isn't anything left.

---

'Bye then. We didn't know you were here, we won't notice you've gone. Have a nice rest of your life.

---

I knew Havoc was here. It's a familiar username to me

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

I am back!

Oh! No one noticed me gone? Ah well *I* feel better! A poll?
Good idea even tho' I am generally against such things it might show the strength of feeling but then you would have to be DD&B not to see there is a 90% + feeling against the changes.

Havoc. We have co-posted I think? Same for E.W. stop it! I thought you a better man! ( see *&^%y Piublishers! The rot and aggro has started.)

Change: Yes it has to happen, and spare us the cod philosphy whoever it was, can't remember (pillock). But not for change sake and certainly no changes imposed from above without consultation and without some one being accountable.

Mike Stranks and the others that have laid down.
It is OUR forum! WE pay for it just a surely as we pay for a packet of Daz and the advertizing behind it all. In any event by sheer majority WE outnumber "THEM" (Publishers please note: YOU have created for the first time, in my mind at least, an Us and Them situation at SoS. It will emerge in the coming weeks who were for and who were against the decimation)

But yes, Props to Jennifer. She must be feeling a much put upon lady right now!

"Just a forum"? Well ok bugger off then. I shall stay and try to get things reversed. In any case The Powers That Be are well versed. They know they can impose radical changes and the plebs will moan and groan but put up with it and then quietly get in line. But IF we make enough noise THIS time for long enough it MIGHT not change minds but it might cause a pause and stop more cuts (for that is what they are, can't see anything has got better and silly things like auto email on update have not been fixed)further down the line.

"Not a fix to a problem"? Well there always were "problems" with the SoS forum, it was like no other and I and many others have asked why over the years. The reply was always "Yes we know but it is a big task to fix but it shall be done one day" Well "something" has been "fixed" but not any of the issues I remember raising?

And I have still not had even an attempt to answer why "mics and pres" get absorbed but not guitars and amps, are the latter NOT part of recording technology?

Very fed up then and I strongly suspect many "at the office" feel the same but cannot say so.

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Good sentiments Dave.

A few people have talked about quiting, I'd like to suggest that's pointless.

Better to work together to build a better forum.

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and I don't think the changes are any cheaper to run. Possibly there's an attempt to make the site more accessible to newcomers, which could be seen to be market driven, but could also seen to be dumbing down what was a very good forum.

I believe there's been a miscalculation, which is what happens when you make changes without consulting your constituency.

I've made suggestions earlier in the thread that would overcome the quoted problems with the old forum, I don't design forums, so they could be nonsense.

I'd like to suggest to Jennifer and the mods that, regardless of outcome, it would be useful to commence a survey of what subscribers would like to see (it's called market research). Following which they could stick with the current forum, revert to the old or come up with something even better! At least it would show good faith.

A good starting point would be to determine what these forums are actually for, who they serve and where, in the greater scheme of things they lie, e.g. where do we sit relative to g'slutz?

I personally would like to see a range of 'boutique' forums, similar to 'Mics and miking Technique' where people with common specialist interests can discuss issues.

Ownership is an interesting question..................

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Sorry but it just isn't worth it anymore. What used to take 2 minutes to check if something interesting was happening would now take at least 15 minutes. Problem is that people just don't put sensible titles on their post. So what will you get now? Ten posts tittled "help"? Having to wade through 100 new posts every day to find those 3 going about diy? I'll go to more dedicated forums where the signal to noise ratio is better.

Quote:

---

A few people have talked about quiting, I'd like to suggest that's pointless.

Better to work together to build a better forum.

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and I don't think the changes are any cheaper to run. Possibly there's an attempt to make the site more accessible to newcomers, which could be seen to be market driven, but could also seen to be dumbing down what was a very good forum.

I believe there's been a miscalculation, which is what happens when you make changes without consulting your constituency.

---

Well it isn't. Honestly, Dave may be talking as much as he likes about "it is our forum" but it isn't. For SOS the forum is a cost center like any other. What is happening is "integration with the CMS". And that is Adobe based and probably used by mac users. Ever seen the Adobe forums? And they want to pamper the ipad users to look "cool". So easier to use for those with a small screen and no keyboard or mouse.

You want your forum? Fork it. Be better and the most dedicated users will follow. So yes, you can build a better forum or at least spend your time elsewhere were it will be better appreciated.

But we seem to be stuck in Hotel California here.

--------------------
Expert in non-working solutions

Edited by Havoc (18/07/11 08:04 AM)

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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A few people have talked about quiting, I'd like to suggest that's pointless.

Better to work together to build a better forum.

Bob

---

Hi Bob

It seems one cannot quit as I've tried every way and have sent two emails but I'm still here!!

But I will stop being involved from now on.

Thanks by the way for all your excellent advice and support over the years, and your standing up for the excellent old forum and for critising this unfortunate disaster!

I really miss the specialty forums!
Mike Senior's new Mix forum - that was pure gold.

They were effectively the expert forums, a valuable asset of high-quality advise and opinions. I can't believe the SOS forum admins don't recognize the way this forum merge is devaluing this knowledge base.

--------------------
All the best,
Knut Skaarberg

Quote Knut Skaarberg:

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I really miss the specialty forums!
Mike Senior's new Mix forum - that was pure gold.

They were effectively the expert forums, a valuable asset of high-quality advise and opinions. I can't believe the SOS forum admins don't recognize the way this forum merge is devaluing this knowledge base.

---

I think some of them do Knut but either don't or "can't" care.

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Quote Havoc:

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And that is Adobe based and probably used by mac users. Ever seen the Adobe forums? And they want to pamper the ipad users to look "cool". So easier to use for those with a small screen and no keyboard or mouse.

---

How it looks is quite secondary to content IMO. (Actually it looks as garish on my iPad as on my Mac, but that's beside the point.)

Let's hope we'll see some sense from SOS over the coming days........

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

I know that Jennifer has asked us to give the new structure some time, but I have to report that so far I’m finding it unwieldy.

Even using the ‘View Latest Topics’ is now devalued, since I’m getting too much noise to wade through. Sure, people could help with better subject lines, but when I could scan over to the forum topic I had a clue as to whether I was interested.

What problems did having sub-forums, such as those for vintage gear, mastering and microphones cause that required fixing?

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I just wanted to add my voice of dissent to this. I don't post that often but I am an avid follower of the SOS forums. I jump from forum to forum but I was mainly interested in the Music Tech forum. I think the massive number of threads (47,000 odd) in Recording & Production kind of speaks for itself. There should be more granularity.

If you try to put too many disparate topics into one forum for the purpose of generalising information and expanding forum readership you'll drive away the specialists and professionals, dumbing down the forum into more of a morning TV magazine style thing. Are you actively trying to accelerate the decay of music production standards?

Information delivery on the Net is now about more specialisation and speed of delivery. You've actually made it slower for us to get to what we actually want to know. Google is spending billions on technology research to develop ways to target users more precisely while you seem to have done the opposite.

The colours aren't very nice either. Garish and distracting; why black on white for pete's sake? That's a basic schoolboy error, didn't you get any advice from a web designer?

Stratt (Otherwise known as the IT Manager at Royal & Derngate, Northampton)

Edited by Stratt (18/07/11 11:14 AM)

Quote Stratt:

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The colours aren't very nice either. Garish and distracting; why black on white for pete's sake? That's a basic schoolboy error, didn't you get any advice from a web designer?

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i get lilac and purple on white here. it's a little garish but not as bad as black on white!

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

I have no problem with how the forum looks. It all seems very sharp and clean.

But I had no problem with how it looked before either, so I don't know how much my opinion counts on that score!

My cursor still drops to the bottom of a post when I add a smilie, or a URL though (I use Firefox) - that is soooooooooo annoying!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote Stratt:

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I just wanted to add my voice of dissent to this. I don't post that often but I am an avid follower of the SOS forums. I jump from forum to forum but I was mainly interested in the Music Tech forum. I think the massive number of threads (47,000 odd) in Recording & Production kind of speaks for itself. There should be more granularity.

If you try to put too many disparate topics into one forum for the purpose of generalising information and expanding forum readership you'll drive away the specialists and professionals, dumbing down the forum into more of a morning TV magazine style thing. Are you actively trying to accelerate the decay of music production standards?

Information delivery on the Net is now about more specialisation and speed of delivery. You've actually made it slower for us to get to what we actually want to know. Google is spending billions on technology research to develop ways to target users more precisely while you seem to have done the opposite.

The colours aren't very nice either. Garish and distracting; why black on white for pete's sake? That's a basic schoolboy error, didn't you get any advice from a web designer?

Stratt (Otherwise known as the IT Manager at Royal & Derngate, Northampton)

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Well! I do not know the gentleman but I consider myself in really good company now!

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

I have no problem with the changes in regard to appearance .
Functionality ... well you normally get used to any forums quirks after a while .

I have stated elsewhere and will state again here ...
IMHO the merging ( disappearance )of the more specialist forums is a mistake and will only serve to harm the forum in the long run .

Also , having mods post things like "this is not a democracy" is a really bad move .
I am pretty sure that the members aren't that fond of being "spoken" down to .

SOS has always had a "sensible" crowd that sets it apart from every other audio forum , please try to keep it this way , don't make the mistakes others have .

I made a post on thie thread yesterday that has disappeared? Teething issue?

Anyway in a nutshell some forums have a sub category you can select from drop down menu when you post... i.e. guitars, sequencing, mastering etc.

Is there no way to implement a "show only" button for brownsing forum members so they can discretely view if many topics are to reside in one forum?

SafeandSound Mastering

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Mastering online mastering

I'm a long time reader, occasional poster, and magazine subscriber, here's my take on what's changed....

Consolidation - I can see why those who liked the specialty forums are annoyed, personally it does not affect me greatly, as long as the search engine is reliable. Easier to moderate, harder for those looking for specifics however - a step backwards from the customer's perspective. Sure, we are not all necessarily subscribers, but its going to have some kind of impact ultimately.

Colour - definitely a bad choice IMHO, in the time its taken me to read this entire thread, I have found the lavender look quite hard on the eyes, and distracting. I really hope you change this to a muted earth tone of some sort. The forum now looks like a Kleenex box!

Perhaps allowing user selectable themes would be an idea, like in phpBB.

Regardless, thanks for continuing this great forum.

Cheers - Robin

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Robin
NorthWood MediaWorks - Visit the Forest

Edited by NorthWood MediaWorks (18/07/11 03:35 PM)

Heh!
"BroWnsing forum members was a most unfortunate typo Safe, especially since folks seem to be "taking sides" just a little now!

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Hi Robin.
Hey! I keep meaning to ask. What are peeps banging on about re colour and format?

"My" forum is the same colours it was last week (purty sure) and it still fills 75% of the screen width.
I am on IE8 and XP Home.

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Quote ef37a:

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Hi Robin.
Hey! I keep meaning to ask. What are peeps banging on about re colour and format?

"My" forum is the same colours it was last week (purty sure) and it still fills 75% of the screen width.
I am on IE8 and XP Home.

Dave.

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Yes, the width doesn't seem to have changed. But I think it's a fixed number of pixels that happens to be 75% of YOUR screen.

The colours ARE odd. On this W7-64 laptop they started a rather nasty pink, then changed to blue. On the W7-32 desktop machine they're still the old neutral colours. Anyone know why?

It's a caching issue. If you clear out your cache/history etc. completely you should find they are all lilac.

We've had a lot of negative feedback about the lilac colours, however, so we are thinking of changing the colour scheme tomorrow to a more neutral pallet.

Still no grey though :P

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Nope, just the Same on my W7/64.

Still COLOUR won't bother me 1/100th as much as the Big Crunch!

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Seems odd that relatively recent innovations have disappeared too. Newbies was a great idea and would have been really useful when I first started posting 5 years or so ago. Made a fool of myself a few times (still do, occasionally) and I'd have felt happier about doing so in a Newbies forum.

CC

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote Jennifer Jones:

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... We've had a lot of negative feedback about the lilac colours, however, so we are thinking of changing the colour scheme tomorrow to a more neutral pallet.

Still no grey though :P

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Thanks Jennifer... Sounds great! Something that will subtly match the log and nav-bar.... best wishes. My old eyes will thank you.