I don't share your button thing entirely Greg but I know what you mean. I normally click them to see (if I'm interested in the site) but don't really read them and think.

I'm happy with "About" though, it's one of the things I look for on a new site, and there's a kind of convention that About, FAQ, What's new, Site map, Contact, etc. on the home page usually mean the same on every site. Certainly, "about" isn't very descriptive, but we know it means here's some info about the purpose of this site and who we are.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com

Here's my site for review:

www.glideascope.com

This was the second version completed around 8 months ago, would appreciate your thoughts and comments.

Glideascope
www.glideascope.com

Quote *gregster*:

---

One thing I've realised about my web-browsing is that I don't like, or usually don't read the nav buttons, especially if there are too many or it's not obvious what they take me to straight away.

Buttons that say "about" are a bit cryptic, for example.
My tip to designers would be to make your nav buttons totally transparent to the eye. Try using 2-3 words if it clarifies exactly what it is the target page is. Deciphering buttons is NOT something people can be bothered doing a lot of the time.

Also, remember that your first page is your first impression: the customer is not interested in you, he's interested in HIMSELF. Reel him in by simply offering the benefits HE could be experiencing were he to use your service/product, then he'll give you more of his time.
g

---

I think it maybe depends how experienced the visitor is?
I mean there are some kind of 'standard' buttons that I expect to be there and I know what I expect to see when i click them.

Contact - I expect to see contact information, address, email, etc.

About - I expect an explanantion of what the company or the site is 'about'

Gallery - usualy photos of the artist or product

Links - links to other associated sites

Blog - biographical log

News - obvious

Home button - to return to the home page

I think if people keep to these type of conventions then there shouldn't be too much problem in knowing what they're for and finding your way around?

yep, agree Glyn. That is pretty conventional. I think that the "about" button is the only one that has unclear connotations, convention or not! "Background" perhaps???, or "history"?
I think that any band that takes itself seriously would consider having a "press" page (unless they were already well known). It is pretty difficult to assert originality but maintain a conventionally practical approach. Anyone seen sites that do this? I'll start a new thread:
"band websites that you like"
I have to say that I quite like the "ween" website (although I can only remember that it kept me interested enough to actually read it!)
g

--------------------
Ceilidh Band Scotland
Wedding Music Scotland

Still slightly under construction. Sorry, I mean constantly updated and improved. www.wireempire.com

Feel free to give me some feedback.

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www.myspace.com/arcanamusic

Quote Armadillo:

---

Still slightly under construction. Sorry, I mean constantly updated and improved. www.wireempire.com

Feel free to give me some feedback.

---

I am 512kbs, loaded fine. Simple, easy to follow from first impressions. Audio link didn't work for me (maybe it's not running yet?) I don't like the keyboard picture in the main image. The setup looks untidy and "home-studio" esque. Obviously, you don't want to mislead people, but I'd be wary of pictures of CRT monitors, which are Soooo last year in terms of studio image.

Oh, hang on. The music just started after about 2 minutes of waiting... hmm. maybe a bit long.
I'd recommend having an instant loop that plays a couple of times that originated from your studio, with a clear option to turn it off.

Also, I don't know about the "list of songs_and their styles" idea. I've been toying with this as well, but I honestly don't know if people will be interested...I don't think that people like to think of being "pigeonholed listeners". It does depend on what your target market is I suppose. If they are clients looking for factory styles for corporate videos etc then it might be ok. If you're trying to "sell" your work as commercially viable stuff, I'd go with the "integral media player" option. By all means have a downloads page for samples (for people who really want a decent hifi version of your work), but I'd put a radio player on there with lo-fi samples playing automatically until they're switched off.

Those are just my thoughts. I'm being a bit more picky because I feel that your site design skills and musical skills obviously are of a standard to make these smaller things of importance.

good1
g

--------------------
Ceilidh Band Scotland
Wedding Music Scotland

Dammit. just spent 20 min. writing a reply and then IE crashes.
Thanks a lot for being thorough.

Quote *gregster*:

---

I am 512kbs, loaded fine. Simple, easy to follow from first impressions. Audio link didn't work for me (maybe it's not running yet?) I don't like the keyboard picture in the main image. The setup looks untidy and "home-studio" esque. Obviously, you don't want to mislead people, but I'd be wary of pictures of CRT monitors, which are Soooo last year in terms of studio image.

---

Well it is a home studio, and all my hardware is probably worth less than £2000 (2nd hand anyway), so I don't really know how else to represent it.

Quote:

---

Oh, hang on. The music just started after about 2 minutes of waiting... hmm. maybe a bit long.
I'd recommend having an instant loop that plays a couple of times that originated from your studio, with a clear option to turn it off.

---

Hmm... strange, it should stream almost instantly. I'd like to know if other people are experiencing the same problem.
Don't like the loop thing. The page will take longer to load and a short loop gets annoying quite fast.

Quote:

---

Also, I don't know about the "list of songs_and their styles" idea. I've been toying with this as well, but I honestly don't know if people will be interested...I don't think that people like to think of being "pigeonholed listeners". It does depend on what your target market is I suppose. If they are clients looking for factory styles for corporate videos etc then it might be ok. If you're trying to "sell" your work as commercially viable stuff, I'd go with the "integral media player" option. By all means have a downloads page for samples (for people who really want a decent hifi version of your work), but I'd put a radio player on there with lo-fi samples playing automatically until they're switched off.

---

I like pigeonholes. Often in eg. "sound files" on SOS, I can't be arsed to listen to the music cause I don't know if it's a genre I like. I wouldn't eg. listen to country or indie. It's just a waste of time imo listening to songs just to find out that musically they are as far away from anything you listen as it could be.

Lo-fi option would be nice though. Will look into that.

What is my market? Good question. Within the last year I've been trying to start up a nu-metal/breakbeat band, been producing euro trance with a singer, been looking to go into library music, and trying to start up a RnB project.

Quote:

---

Those are just my thoughts. I'm being a bit more picky because I feel that your site design skills and musical skills obviously are of a standard to make these smaller things of importance.

good1
g

---

Thanks in regards to musical skills.
Web design skills however, are not as good as they might seem. Basically, I've bought a template, edited it, new text, images, added links etc. nothing major.
To be honest I'm not sure if I can add a dedicated player etc.

--------------------
www.myspace.com/arcanamusic

Gregster:
You didn't mention that the "services" link didn't work, and neither did "showreels". Under construction. I think

the music started playing after about 5 seconds here (512 adsl). It's a shame there's no indication along the nature of 'streaming started, please wait while buffering.." just so the viewer has visual feedback that something is happening.

I had 2 hours spare, so I started redesigning my site...

http://msweb.co.uk/mswebv6/

Any comments, thoughts...
or ideas how to make it in the middle! of the page!
Laurence

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?

I like the sky.

What the hell are you selling anyway? I don't get it.

never got it with the current site either.

whats the word giant dude?

What's like..... your quest?

to center it you could use this
And then lose the doctype line

I'm sure I had got the 100% table trick in there, but I will look again when I remove the doc-type line.

Thanks again, Laurence

*edit*

out of interest why lose the doc type line?

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?

Edited by Giant with Laser Eyes (30/01/05 11:19 PM)

Http://www.ukslc.org

What you guys think ??

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http://www.ukslc.org/ - UK Sound And Lighting Community

Good. The breadcrumbs top left look odd for some reason, but otherwise very clean and classy.

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www.bemuso.com

...Nice.

That black bar at the bottom's tough to read though... Maybe you could use the yellow from the top?

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www.RTaylor-Design.Com

Does nobody in here browse full screen?

Isn't designing for 800x600 a little "last century"?

--------------------
www.RTaylor-Design.Com

Quote:

---

or ideas how to make it in the middle! of the page!
Laurence

---

%?

This:
http://www.w3.org/

http://imgseek.python-hosting.com/
{Which you can apparently run in windows now...}

As opposed to this?:
http://www.oasis-open.org/home/index.php

--------------------
www.RTaylor-Design.Com

Quote Rick Taylor:

---

http://imgseek.python-hosting.com/
{Which you can apparently run in windows now...}

---

Not sure about the evolutionary model.

http://imgseek.sourceforge.net/net/

--------------------
www.RTaylor-Design.Com

Hello all,

Here's a little site I've been working on. There's not much on it at the moment. Let me know what y'all think, and any suggestions/crits/etc will be appreciated...

www.papamofoman.com

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http://www.papamofoman.com
myspace

Quote Rick Taylor:

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Does nobody in here browse full screen?

Isn't designing for 800x600 a little "last century"?

---

It isnt designed for 800x600

I just like having bars on either side of the page.

Makes it look nice and clean !!

Just personal preferance really but it should display well on any window size

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http://www.ukslc.org/ - UK Sound And Lighting Community

I don't like sites that decide how you want your screen...

Why not let the user decide? If they want 800x600 it should work for them. And if they want full screen it should work too.

I don't browse full screen... isn't running a single app rather '60s?

--------------------
www.bemuso.com

Quote 3guk:

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Quote Rick Taylor:

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Does nobody in here browse full screen?

Isn't designing for 800x600 a little "last century"?

---

It isnt designed for 800x600

I just like having bars on either side of the page.

Makes it look nice and clean !!

Just personal preferance really but it should display well on any window size

---

I wasn't actually targeting your site. But it might apply.

I think it should display equally well on any screen too... hence the % preference. Look at the page you're reading this on. {As well as most of the majors out here... ms, yahoo, google, etc.}

Personally, I think those itty bitty pages are irritating.

--------------------
www.RTaylor-Design.Com

Quote Rob C.:

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I don't like sites that decide how you want your screen...

Why not let the user decide? If they want 800x600 it should work for them. And if they want full screen it should work too.

I don't browse full screen... isn't running a single app rather '60s?

---

Again... that's why I think stuff should scale.

I run Gnome with 4 desktops... I usually open apps full screen on each desktop... Mailer, NVU, Editor and Browser {for 'net sessions.. the setup's different depending on what I'm doing. } Even in Windows I generally maximize things that I want to pay attention to and use the taskbar to switch between them. {all sessions}

--------------------
www.RTaylor-Design.Com

I've just uploaded my bands website, Sell Crazy. It has taken me a while to do but I think it is looking pretty good. I would think that though seeing as I created it . I'd be interested to hear what people think of it.

Cheers,

Gareth.

--------------------
My Homepage
My Band

http://www.hairthieves.com

Pop, rock and soudtrackesque soundscapes.

Enjoy

--------------------
http://www.hairthieves.com
http://www.myspace.com/thehairthieves

Quote Gareth Duncan:

---

I've just uploaded my bands website, Sell Crazy. It has taken me a while to do but I think it is looking pretty good. I would think that though seeing as I created it . I'd be interested to hear what people think of it.

Cheers,

Gareth.

---

I thought the layout was really good. neat and tidy. Didn't like the repetition of so and so will get you so and so bit on the home page, most of the links had obvious meanings in my opinion, you could instead have a 'hover over' explanantion of each link button if you want to explain what each one does?

Also the photos look a bit amateurish. it would be well worht getting someone who knows what they're doing with a camera and get some decent lookinbg ones done. Just some 'constructive' criticism. Good job overall.

--------------------

Thanks for the comments.

Quote GlynB:

---

Didn't like the repetition of so and so will get you so and so bit on the home page, most of the links had obvious meanings in my opinion, you could instead have a 'hover over' explanantion of each link button if you want to explain what each one does?

---

I wasn't sure if it was obvious that the plectrums on the left were suppose to be links. I need to think of a way to make them more obvious then I can remove the explanation from the front page.

Quote GlynB:

---

Also the photos look a bit amateurish. it would be well worht getting someone who knows what they're doing with a camera and get some decent lookinbg ones done.

---

I agree completely. They were really just place holders so that I could get the layout right. My skills with a camera are a bit lacking .

Cheers,

Gareth.

--------------------
My Homepage
My Band

Quote Gareth Duncan:

---

Thanks for the comments.

Quote GlynB:

---

Didn't like the repetition of so and so will get you so and so bit on the home page, most of the links had obvious meanings in my opinion, you could instead have a 'hover over' explanantion of each link button if you want to explain what each one does?

---

I wasn't sure if it was obvious that the plectrums on the left were suppose to be links. I need to think of a way to make them more obvious then I can remove the explanation from the front page.

---

I'd just kill the explanations... I think the picks are fine. Maybe they could stand to be bigger. Folk looking for a place to click are not going to have a problem figuring them out as they are. Maybe the text in the logo is a bit small... the curves on the right hand side are a bit rough as well. You might try drawing them in a vector program and exporting them. Sodipodi's been ported to Windows if you don't have something like Illustrator.

Quote GlynB:

---

Quote:

---

Also the photos look a bit amateurish. it would be well worht getting someone who knows what they're doing with a camera and get some decent lookinbg ones done.

---

I agree completely. They were really just place holders so that I could get the layout right. My skills with a camera are a bit lacking .

---

You might just shoot a lot of closeups at a practice some night. Closer is better if the background's a living room. Shoot enough and you should easily come up with usable stuff. You might play with the room lights a bit...

I think I'd do the same thing to the studio shots that you've done to the guitar shots... Or maybe do some sort of set in the basement or the alley or something. Shots of a table in the living room or bedroom look like just that. They don't give you a professional look or set any type of personality for the band. Telling the truth is probably good... you don't have to tell folk everything though.

If you do shoot stuff in the living room... close the window unless it's to the side of what you're shooting. Shooting with it at your back is probably better.

I like the guitar closeups...

--------------------
www.RTaylor-Design.Com

Quote Rick Taylor:

---

the curves on the right hand side are a bit rough as well. You might try drawing them in a vector program and exporting them. Sodipodi's been ported to Windows if you don't have something like Illustrator.

---

Now you've pointed that out it is all I can see . I've heard some good stuff about Sodipodi (I'm using Linux) so I'll have to give it a go. Thanks.

Quote Rick Taylor:

---

You might just shoot a lot of closeups at a practice some night. Closer is better if the background's a living room. Shoot enough and you should easily come up with usable stuff. You might play with the room lights a bit...

---

Good idea, I just hope poeple can stand closeups of our faces .

Thanks for the advice.

Gareth.

--------------------
My Homepage
My Band

my new site..

http://www.listen.to/inocybe

--------------------
Didn't your mother ever tell you not to eat nuclear warheads?

Quite a nice tidy site.

I don't like the use of the bog-standard 'Times new Roman' font, I suggest using Arial., Times NR looks amateurish and your site is better than that. This is really easy to fix.

On the pictures page the small thumb nails wouldn't expand to bigger pictures, is that still work in progress, or is it designed that way just to have little photos?

Overall not too bad.

--------------------

GlynB, thanks for the comment, really appreciate it. I wonder how come you see the times font (maybe the stylesheet isn't linked properly..)it should use Geneva -> arial ->Helvetia -> sans serif family... I'm a bit puzzled as why this happens, it's not the first time I use a css file .. I've tested the site on all major browsers and platforms. I'm going to look a bit deeper into why this is happening to you (and not to me, so far).

Which browser are you using and which platform you're on? do you have the Geneva font installed ? Are links displayed in blue? or in black?

the small pictures will stay small no need to see them all blown up IMHO.. I like to keep this site simple and easy updatable..

--------------------
Didn't your mother ever tell you not to eat nuclear warheads?

Inocybe:

The font displays correctly in Firefox here but not in IE6. The reason is that IE doesn't cascade the font-family style rule down to the td contents when applied to a table cell. If you move the font-family declaration to the body element then all should be well.

i.e.

body{

font-family: : Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;

}


IE doesn't handle cascading styles very well in general and in the case of tables its even worse. In my experience its best to avoid applying styles to table elements when you want to style the contents of cells and rather style the contents directly. Im not a big fan of table layouts generally but that's another story.

That not withstanding its a very nice site you've got there. Good stuff.

Quote inocybe:

---

GlynB, thanks for the comment, really appreciate it. I wonder how come you see the times font (maybe the stylesheet isn't linked properly..)it should use Geneva -> arial ->Helvetia -> sans serif family... I'm a bit puzzled as why this happens, it's not the first time I use a css file .. I've tested the site on all major browsers and platforms. I'm going to look a bit deeper into why this is happening to you (and not to me, so far).

Which browser are you using and which platform you're on? do you have the Geneva font installed ? Are links displayed in blue? or in black?

the small pictures will stay small no need to see them all blown up IMHO.. I like to keep this site simple and easy updatable..

---

Yes i have geneva font installed, I checked for it in MSWord and it's there as an option, as are arial etc.

Links are displayed in Black. Using Internet Explorer version 6. Standard stuff.

Looks like the stylesheet isn't sorking properly?

--------------------

Quote inocybe:

---

the small pictures will stay small no need to see them all blown up IMHO.. I like to keep this site simple and easy updatable..

---

Personally, I think they work really well that way.

--------------------
www.RTaylor-Design.Com

You can check out my website HERE. I am mostly involved in TV music these days and there are quite a few films and MP3s to listen to.

--------------------
Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
Cue irritating bongo music ...

Excellent stuff... I'm not a fan of "welcome screens" but that does seem kind of insignificant!

Just finished the website for ETS Reading...

www.msweb.co.uk/ets

I apperciate I havn't as of yet fixed the menu drop downs so they are compatible with IE, and the news system is still being developed..

I've tried to make this site completly CSS driven, not a table in sight!

Any ideas, or feedback would be welcomed!
Thanks, Laurence

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?

Kudos for going for a standards compliant design. Just a few comments...

You need to set the z-index of the ul element to ensure that your dropdowns appear over the top of other elements like the imageside div. z-index:3; will be fine.

In the imageside div tag you need to put quotes around the id value (i.e. <div id="imageside">&nbsp;</div>) cos without them IE6 isn't displaying the background-image.

Dunno if you care but the menus don't work well at 800x600 since the floated <li> elements that should be on the far right get shoved down on to a new line as the menu bar is too wide. Maybe 9em width would work better.

There's no link back to the home page from any of the other pages. I don't know if this is generally the case but our clients ALWAYS moan if we forget to provide a link back to the home page (unless its just a splash screen or similar).

I think you need to have more colour on the menu, logo and page header bar, perhaps just use borders to add a hint of extra colour. For example the menu bar <li> elements could have left and right borders which would also make them appear more evenly spaced (if you know what I mean). The fact that the dropdown menus are the same colour as the title bar that they overlap makes them look a bit odd, too. If they're going to be the same colour then I think the dropdowns need a border of some kind.

One last comment on the layout: I think the imagebar would look better if its right edge was aligned with the right edge of the menu bar and footer. There's a couple of ways that you could arrange that but my approach would be to shove the content div away from the left edge of the browser window so that its left edge is inline with the right side of the "S" in the ETS logo and expand its width so that it pushed the imagebar into line.

I usually use the STRICT DTD to force IE6 into standards mode when doing CSS layouts as it can help to get things looking consistent and keep box-model hacks to a minimum.

I hope you glean something useful from that. As ever YMMV...