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Alphajuno



Joined: 02/11/05
Posts: 307
How do i design a website.....
      #421462 - 15/02/07 10:50 AM
So i want to design a website, ive never had a bash at designing one before.

Whats the best way to go about this? Should i be looking at flash or HTML? Which is the easiest for a beginner to start with?

Are there any programs ideally free/cheap that can help me along the way?

Tar

Ray


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Carlospresents...



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 1913
Loc: Todmorden
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421466 - 15/02/07 10:57 AM
HTML

Use the internet to teach you.

Then play with Notepad.

That's what I did.

I will be more helpful soon...

--------------------
My Jukebocks


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421483 - 15/02/07 11:23 AM
Quote Alphajuno:

Should i be looking at flash or HTML?



HTML

Quote Alphajuno:

Are there any programs ideally free/cheap that can help me along the way?



I don't like to recommend it but Microsoft Frontpage.

Dunno if there is a free/cheap Mac equivalent but to get started, a WYSIWG app is what you want. You CAN do it in a text editor by typing out the HTML but it's a bit daunting if you're an absolute novice.


Steve

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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Rob C



Joined: 10/02/03
Posts: 8434
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421528 - 15/02/07 12:28 PM
Before you do anything with software draw what you want on a big bit of paper... or several. Screens with arrows between them and the things you want on them. This is your design.

If you're going to have any text... draft it before you start coding. Get a look at what you're making. You don't need any software to do that and it will save you buckets of time later.

Then you can look at coding. I'd avoid Flash unless you're building a very graphic/multimedia site. If HTML will do the job (my site is HTML) look up the beginners stuff on the web and you're away.

--------------------
www.bemuso.com


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TAKEN.BALL.GONE.HOME
posting's fun


Joined: 16/09/02
Posts: 1638
Loc: Manchester, UK and Den Haag, N...
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421540 - 15/02/07 12:48 PM
Think about the information that you are going to present. Think how the user will navigate to it. Concentrate on getting this part right before all the bells and whistles.

Try to keep the content and style separate. Learn a bit about CSS by browsing the demo site Zen Garden.

The complete HTML reference can be found at World Wide Web Consortium.

Try to stick to the free and open standard stuff to maximise compatibility and accessibility. (ie avoid Flash and browser-specific features). Check your site on a variety of browsers/systems.

Consider using some kind of Content Management System (CMS) (or wiki or blogging system) if you are building more than a few pages and want to maintain it - geeklog is one of many many examples.

--------------------
TAKEN.BALL.GONE.HOME


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Michael B
active member


Joined: 28/08/03
Posts: 2076
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421637 - 15/02/07 03:59 PM
I agree with Rob C,

start with a piece of paper, think about the design first, then go about learning the tools you need to realise your idea. Think of the analogy with music - instead of buying some software and hoping that'll compose for you, get the idea first then get the software that best suits you.

One of the best sites I've seen, or certainly one where the designer has a good approach to website design and maintenance is www.lingcars.com she says "a website is like a pet or a house plant, if you don't feed/water it, it will die" it is an entertaining website if nothing else, and yet uses no Flash Harry techniques


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TAKEN.BALL.GONE.HOME
posting's fun


Joined: 16/09/02
Posts: 1638
Loc: Manchester, UK and Den Haag, N...
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Michael B]
      #421641 - 15/02/07 04:07 PM
Quote Michael B:

One of the best sites I've seen, or certainly one where the designer has a good approach to website design and maintenance is www.lingcars.com she says "a website is like a pet or a house plant, if you don't feed/water it, it will die" it is an entertaining website if nothing else, and yet uses no Flash Harry techniques



And it just goes to show it's a matter of taste - that is a terrible looking site to my eyes

--------------------
TAKEN.BALL.GONE.HOME


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Microwave



Joined: 11/09/04
Posts: 977
Loc: London, Europe
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: TAKEN.BALL.GONE.HOME]
      #421645 - 15/02/07 04:15 PM
That site looks sooo horrid to me - if I'd paid someone to design it I think they would be staring to the wrong side of a kalashnikov
But Michael's advice is spot on.


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Michael B
active member


Joined: 28/08/03
Posts: 2076
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421676 - 15/02/07 04:52 PM
Yep, the site is cluttered to say the least, but the point I was making is that a site should be entertaining, which if you read some of it, and watch the movies, the scat on Top Gear - Chop Gear it really is a hoot.

I compare this with some of the more 'classy' and 'moody' looking really slick and long faced, and they may look good but they tell me nothing. Whereas the site I mentioned, even though I have no intention of leasing a car, had me chuckling away and so I remember the site name after only one visit!

Alas, I do have to admit that in the media industry image takes precedence over substance


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A k A



Joined: 02/10/04
Posts: 71
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421683 - 15/02/07 05:08 PM
Hello,

use iWeb for Mac, very simple, very effective, no need to know HTML or whatever. This is what I did with it, check Apple site for more, you can do a lot more...

http://www.villa.schumann.sizaret.net

Cheers !


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Shocks



Joined: 01/01/07
Posts: 1
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421690 - 15/02/07 05:27 PM
It really depends on what you want to do with it. Are you looking to have a blog, many sections and content, and want it easily updatable? If that's the case you should consider using a content management system (CMS) like Wordpress to build your site. If you are just looking for a really simple web presence then starting off with an application like Dreamweaver is a good first port of call. Find a simple (professional) site you like and load it into Dreamweaver. You can split the screen between 'design' and 'code' modes - you'll be able to see how the site is put together and can reverse engineer it. I would do this in conjunction with a beginners HTML book so you know what the code means. Try to develop a site using W3C compatible code and CSS rather than using the old way of structuring it with tables - works better across browsers. Once you get really comfortable with the code you can ditch Dreamweaver and use something like BBEdit or Homesite. I would keep away from Flash for now other than using it for things like an MP3 player (like myspace). At first it can be difficult to understand the code - but do persevere!

Ben

Edited by Shocks (15/02/07 06:01 PM)


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Pentaren
member


Joined: 12/12/02
Posts: 178
Loc: North Cornwall, UK.
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421692 - 15/02/07 05:30 PM
Whatever you do don't use frontpage, it writes the most awful proprietary code, which is not at all W3C standards compliant.

--------------------
Define the moment, or the moment defines you.


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Michael B
active member


Joined: 28/08/03
Posts: 2076
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421715 - 15/02/07 05:58 PM
Also, it may be an idea to get down to the newsagents and get a mag, there are some like .NET that will usually inlcude some giveaway software that will get you started with the basics so that at least you learn a bit about HTML. Once you've understood the concept that a web page consists of code that 'tells' a browser what, where and how to display content, you're off!

To give you an idea, whilst looking at this page....

if you're using IE go to View/Source

or Firefox go to View/Page Source

It'll look quite complex, but loook at each line and you'll see the HTML

Bear in mind this is not a simple basic page


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moo the magic cow



Joined: 25/10/06
Posts: 1147
Loc: USA
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421832 - 16/02/07 12:00 AM
The HTML or Flash Q is like asking 'Addition.. or Calculus?'

--------------------
gentle robot - chapel hill rock band


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Alphajuno



Joined: 02/11/05
Posts: 307
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421894 - 16/02/07 08:22 AM
Thanks a bunch everyone for the help.

I shall spend a bit of time this weekend planning what it should look like, followed by a lot of google.

On the issue of webspace, is it best to stick with your ISP or are they more suitable alternatives?


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table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5901
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #421902 - 16/02/07 09:10 AM
Hi Alpha


KISS


Nice, simple, elegant personal website


Free simple template based software to download and build web pages

PersonalWebKit

Serif Web Plus 6

Web easy Express 6


Online simple strong webpage builder software

Moonfruit £2.99 per moth


Low cost simple strong web page builder

NetObjects Fusion



7 Deadly Sins
  • Pop up ads (93% annoyance level)
  • Being required to install extra software to view site content (89%)
  • Dead links (86%)
  • Confusing navigation (84%)
  • Required registration to access content (83%)
  • Slow-loading pages (83%)
  • Ineffective site search tools (80%)


Lots of people have slower older computers. So No Flash.
Unless a welcome page is doing sometime useful, unnecesary to have one
... cut to the chase.



Quote Alphajuno:

On the issue of webspace, is it best to stick with your ISP or are they more suitable alternatives?




For increased space & downloadable uploadable allowance, extra email addresses,
less restrictions on what you can put up, more control, far more flexible webdesign,
and a simple domain name eg www.Alphajuno.com or.co.uk or whatever
(not a looong domain name prefixed by your ISP's name)
best to move away from your ISP (also helps look a bit more pro & not a cheepskate ).


This is low cost & useful (has a website builder too).
http://www.123-reg.co.uk





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loser007



Joined: 05/12/06
Posts: 438
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: A k A]
      #422317 - 17/02/07 08:40 AM
Quote A k A:


http://www.villa.schumann.sizaret.net

Cheers !




holy crap, is that your house? i'm coming over for a visit!!!!

nice website by the way!

--------------------
are you ready to RAWK!!!! / Our first Review!


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Ian Threlfall
member


Joined: 24/12/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Liverpool
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #422503 - 17/02/07 06:26 PM
Quote Alphajuno:

On the issue of webspace, is it best to stick with your ISP or are they more suitable alternatives?




I have sent you a PM.

--------------------
Ian Threlfall
magicgenie.co.uk web hosting


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moo the magic cow



Joined: 25/10/06
Posts: 1147
Loc: USA
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #422787 - 18/02/07 06:41 PM
Quote Alphajuno:

Thanks a bunch everyone for the help.

I shall spend a bit of time this weekend planning what it should look like, followed by a lot of google.

On the issue of webspace, is it best to stick with your ISP or are they more suitable alternatives?




Depends on how much space your ISP gives you. Look at how many MP3s you'll be hosting and their total filesize, and see if it'll be sufficient. Here in the states I pay about $10 a month for hosting (have your own www domain and everything), but I'm looking at a UK site that wants 30 pounds a year.

--------------------
gentle robot - chapel hill rock band


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Steve Marshall



Joined: 08/02/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Wiltshire UK
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #422799 - 18/02/07 07:04 PM
I started, as someone else suggested, by getting Dreamweaver and loading other people's websites to see what they've done. You'll need Photoshop too - and you've got to start thinking in pixels when you size images.
Most web designers do a draft first on paper, then in Photoshop (or similar). That way, you can move elements & colours around and re-size them until you're happy with the layout - then start working in Dreamweaver.
(You can also nick someone else's layout and just change the pics & text to fit your own needs!)
If you hit any problems, just Google a question - you'll find lots of detailed help online.


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Steve Marshall]
      #422830 - 18/02/07 09:33 PM
Quote Steve Marshall:

I started, as someone else suggested, by getting Dreamweaver .... You'll need Photoshop too....



But that's the best part of £1,000 - Mr Juno wants something cheap/free to get a feel for website creation. I suggested Frontpage because it is free and although it generates horrible code, would let him dip his toe in the water and make something basic to get started.

And Dreamweaver has one hell of a learning curve as does Photoshop (although I would recommend Fireworks as a graphic accompaniment to DW) - probably not what Mr Juno wants/needs just to have a dabble.


Steve

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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jhoulston
new member


Joined: 04/05/04
Posts: 19
Loc: Ely, Cambridgeshire, UK
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #422986 - 19/02/07 09:32 AM
I would suggest using a free program called NVU. It's available for Mac / Linux / Windows and is a complete Web Authoring System to rival programs like FrontPage and Dreamweaver. I use this as well as notepad and am very impressed with it.

If you are looking for website templates, take a look at these sites:
Open Source Web Design
Open Web Design
Open Design Community
All of these templates are free as they are open source. All you have to do it keep the creators name in the footer at the bottom of the page.

If you are looking for a decent but cheap web host, I recommend the following:Streamline Net. I've been with them for over three years and they have been very good.

Hope some of that helps.

--------------------
James Houlston


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geefunk



Joined: 05/08/05
Posts: 1740
Loc: Bristol, UK
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #423133 - 19/02/07 02:03 PM
how about these guys

came across them whilst asking myself the very same question. Anyone any experience?

as far as free HTML editors are concerned, I've been trying to teach myself with this

seems ok so far....

--------------------
I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over
Twitter


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Bobelix



Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 2
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #460672 - 15/05/07 12:57 PM
The HTML Editor at www.coffeecup.com has WYSIWYG and Code views and, as far as I can make out, most of the functionality of Dreamweaver but it's only $49 (£25)to download! There's a free 30-day trial too.


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Stuart Churchill



Joined: 30/10/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Wales
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #463082 - 20/05/07 05:37 PM
Best price for domain names: http://www.1and1.co.uk
Web hosting: http://www.hartserver.net My website (below) costs £10.60 PA for 100 MB of webspace & 5 GB download. My other website costs £9.09 per year for 50 MB webspace & 5 GB download. So, you could be on the 'net for only about £13! If you wanted to expand later you just need to email them and it's done in a few days. Hope this helps.
Stuart.

--------------------
Birthday Song 4 U. Personalised Birthday Songs


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Ash18



Joined: 31/05/07
Posts: 1
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #467935 - 31/05/07 04:54 PM
I work for a company that can do it for you, if you want a quick and easy option.

High quality site... FREE setup and £10 per month for a small website. Fully designed, built and hosted, all included.

www.sitefox.co.uk

Cheers,
Ash


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table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5901
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #478863 - 28/06/07 08:37 AM
http://www.kaimotta.com/digicool/portfolio.html

This guy is a friend of mine and designs within his team interesting websites for artists, musicans, companies.


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Looney Tunes



Joined: 02/10/04
Posts: 49
Loc: Scotland
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #479925 - 30/06/07 05:40 PM
I use Composer, which is included in the Netscape Browser. does the job, and is relativly simple to use. Might be abit basic though?

Looney


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Karma Koza
new member


Joined: 21/05/03
Posts: 9
Loc: Liverpool, UK
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #508347 - 24/08/07 11:59 PM
I'd recomend learing to hand code and understand the basics of html (tOOk me a few hours), then learn the basics of css. there are lots of simple tutorial and even free templates on the internet but if your stuck, view other sites code and learn from them. Thats how the web evolves!

UK electronica

--------------------
Karma Koza UK Electronica


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GLENN



Joined: 24/10/04
Posts: 326
Loc: Manchester
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #566198 - 11/01/08 06:32 PM
For cheap hosting with a domain name no setup fees and unlimited bandwidth check out www.amen.com tenner year.
Anything else you need to know just ask google.


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Ian Threlfall
member


Joined: 24/12/03
Posts: 512
Loc: Liverpool
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #566812 - 13/01/08 04:28 PM
erm that appears to lead to a Christian website / store.

http://www.familychristian.com/

No hosting :S

--------------------
Ian Threlfall
magicgenie.co.uk web hosting


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Forum AdminAdministrator



Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 2336
Loc: Cambridge
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #569537 - 19/01/08 12:05 PM
We published a 5-part series for musicians with little HTML knowledge way back in 1999. It's out of date, but a large part of the concepts do still apply and so it'll function as a good overview for you and others like you.

The search page gives you links to all 5 parts:

SOS: Building Web Site Parts 1 - 5

Hope it helps.

Ian G

--------------------
SOS Gear Videos now screening on Sound On Sound TV


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Forum AdminAdministrator



Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 2336
Loc: Cambridge
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Looney Tunes]
      #569540 - 19/01/08 12:09 PM
Quote Looney Tunes:

I use Composer, which is included in the Netscape Browser. does the job, and is relativly simple to use. Might be abit basic though?

Looney




Netscape Browser has since been killed off, so not good idea to start learning that particular browser.

Some domain sellers offer basic space and a resonable range of templates for quick building of your own site. Apple's .Mac is one of the easiest, and these days they let you use your own domain if you have one (but you need to be a Mac owner).

--------------------
SOS Gear Videos now screening on Sound On Sound TV


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James T Bigglesworth
member


Joined: 05/02/04
Posts: 673
Loc: Mostly South Coast UK
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #569618 - 19/01/08 04:17 PM
I used to faff about and design my own, but decided that life was just too short (and anyway, I wasn't sure that the 'quirkiness' of my own sites was putting out the right image). Also, I soon realised that I'm simply not interested in learning html, flash or whatever beyond a basic level.

Now I use Mr Site : dirt cheap, very simple, domain name (if required) and hosting included, together with online shop, mp3 jukebox, matching stationery and everything else I could possibly need.

And, did I say dirt cheap and very simple?

My current website took less than an hour to set up.

--------------------
"Over fifteen years without a slogan"


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Forum AdminAdministrator



Joined: 22/07/03
Posts: 2336
Loc: Cambridge
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: James T Bigglesworth]
      #570442 - 21/01/08 08:14 PM
Hi Paul,

Nice clean, easy to use web site - does the job well.

I even found out you did the music for Get Shorty - one of my fave films, and my kids will be ever so impressed when I tell them that the man who did Spongebob Squarepants writes in the SOS Forum from time to time. Respect.

Ian G

PS: that's what I love about this forum - you never know who you are communicating with.

--------------------
SOS Gear Videos now screening on Sound On Sound TV


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Boston Green



Joined: 21/09/07
Posts: 408
Loc: East Sussex
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #570982 - 22/01/08 10:42 PM
I've just knocked up a site, using one of the built in 'Fantastico' installed CMS on my webspaces control panel.

As of posting this message, it took 2 hours to get here (including flaffing about with different themes and doing the logos).

Pretty easy, although I do have some php knowledge from running PHPnuke sites in the past. This time though I'm trying the PostNuke CMS, kinda like it.

My Website

--------------------
www.BandSoundHire.com
PA Hire in Brighton, Sussex, Surrey and Kent.


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Scope



Joined: 03/07/06
Posts: 2231
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Boston Green]
      #570999 - 22/01/08 11:54 PM
iWeb all the way.

Painting by numbers, could not be simpler.
WAY better then bloody Frontpage ( that abomination of kak)

I know a few hard-core Dreamweaver guys who swear by it, but the learning curve is huge.

Keep it simple - iWeb does !


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James T Bigglesworth
member


Joined: 05/02/04
Posts: 673
Loc: Mostly South Coast UK
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: Forum Admin]
      #574238 - 31/01/08 08:29 AM
Hi Ian - not all the scores, unfortunately - just 'additional music'. But, as ever, and like everyone else, I keep trying...!

Paul

--------------------
"Over fifteen years without a slogan"


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Dino4t5



Joined: 07/07/07
Posts: 15
Re: How do i design a website..... new [Re: James T Bigglesworth]
      #578676 - 10/02/08 10:28 AM
Lo forum.

Recommend very good beginners html book "Using HTML 4" published by QUE.
another ploy is to have a look at ready-made free templates online, and using any editor, change them to suit your site.

--------------------
That wasn't a wrong note, just a bad choice!


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Phantom48



Joined: 28/03/08
Posts: 61
Re: How do i design a website..... *DELETED* new [Re: Alphajuno]
      #596786 - 28/03/08 06:52 PM
Post deleted by ForumModTeam


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