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Theremax



Joined: 10/02/07
Posts: 78
Loc: Between reality and dream
Peter Hook launches music industry degree
      #994771 - 26/06/12 09:31 AM
Peter Hook launches music industry degree

To be fair he's probably got a wealth of experience to pass on but I'm always wary about wrapping these things up in a formalised degree (with the associated fees). If he wants to put something back, why not just mentor people already in the industry?

Edited by Theramin (26/06/12 09:33 AM)


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3506
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994773 - 26/06/12 09:37 AM
Quote Theramin:

Peter Hook launches music industry degree

To be fair he's probably got a wealth of experience to pass on but I'm always wary about wrapping these things up in a formalised degree (with the associated fees). If he wants to put something back, why not just mentor people already in the industry?




The guy is an idiot. He mimes dj sets. His time has passed.

http://www.thefader.com/2008/01/28/peter-hook-busted-for-fake-djing/


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BJG145



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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994774 - 26/06/12 09:39 AM
I'm deeply suspicious of people who talk about "putting something back". It usually means they're looking for new ways to get more out.


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4402
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994775 - 26/06/12 09:40 AM
Maybe it is lessons on how to take a pre-mixed CD and then play that to a crowd whilst pointlessly tweaking knobs and getting paid for it. He could get Mistabishi to help out giving the lecture.

At least Paris Hilton DJs live, even if it is terrible.

--------------------
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Theremax



Joined: 10/02/07
Posts: 78
Loc: Between reality and dream
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #994776 - 26/06/12 09:48 AM
Quote johnny h:



The guy is an idiot. He mimes dj sets. His time has passed.

http://www.thefader.com/2008/01/28/peter-hook-busted-for-fake-djing/




Ha - I'd forgotten about that!


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Theremax



Joined: 10/02/07
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Loc: Between reality and dream
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #994777 - 26/06/12 09:50 AM
Quote Richie Royale:

At least Paris Hilton DJs live, even if it is terrible.




Well, with a bit of help!


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feline1
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994778 - 26/06/12 09:52 AM
Hookey? This would not so much be a degree in basket weaving as a degree by basket casing /facepalms gently/

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~


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The_Big_Piano_Player
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994781 - 26/06/12 10:04 AM
My uncle used to live next door to Peter Hook in Didsbury.

Apparently, he does a very impressive fire works display.

I hope this helps the topic in some small way.

--------------------
Touch & Go


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Phil O
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The_Big_Piano_Player]
      #994798 - 26/06/12 10:59 AM
I wonder if there'll be a module on playing your bass 6" from the ground


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GlynB



Joined: 26/09/03
Posts: 4014
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994808 - 26/06/12 11:47 AM
Just what the world needs, another degree.

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grab



Joined: 08/07/07
Posts: 2920
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Phil O]
      #994813 - 26/06/12 12:19 PM
Quote Phil O:

I wonder if there'll be a module on playing your bass 6" from the ground




Entitled "Don't do this unless you want to f*ck up your shoulder and spine", no doubt.


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994819 - 26/06/12 12:41 PM
Also available:

"The Future of Feminism" - by Mullah Omar.
"European Studies" - Nigel Farage.
"Landscape Painting for the Enthusiastic Pensioner" - Tracey Emin

--------------------
Onward and outward


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1899
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #994835 - 26/06/12 02:18 PM
Quote johnny h:

Quote Theramin:

Peter Hook launches music industry degree

To be fair he's probably got a wealth of experience to pass on but I'm always wary about wrapping these things up in a formalised degree (with the associated fees). If he wants to put something back, why not just mentor people already in the industry?




The guy is an idiot. He mimes dj sets. His time has passed.

http://www.thefader.com/2008/01/28/peter-hook-busted-for-fake-djing/




The nephew of a friend of mine, quite a few years ago now, was in a band that was to some extent sponsored (not finacially) by the great Hook, and what they had to say about him was not very complimentary, in fact they sacked him! But what they did say, well suffice it to say he had an ego the size of Wales and was constantly banging on about how New Order done him wrong, he bored the liver out them, they said he would be better renting himself out as a human sleeping pill!

And a degree from Preston Polytechnic, well, go figure how much use that will be LOL


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The Red Bladder



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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994852 - 26/06/12 04:15 PM
Those on this course can join the over 1,000 music business graduates that UK universities shove out every year and the 150 to 200 post-graduate MAs and PhDs that hope for gainful employment. I received several CVs today from music tech and music business grads - and all of them addressed me as 'Hi there!' and each and every one of them had grammatical mistakes!

So remember - Asda needs you! Them shelves don't fill themselves, you know! (Unless you have a 2:1 in a real business degree; then they'll give you a real job!)


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Dave Gate
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994860 - 26/06/12 04:42 PM
I find it very sad that a university (never mind that it's a former Polytechnic) which has some genuinely world leading research groups (I know that you won't believe me on that, but it's true, my ex-wife used to belong to one of them) feels it necessary to launch something as facile as this.

--------------------
Gear List: reverse only.


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3506
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Dave Gate]
      #994864 - 26/06/12 05:19 PM
Quote Dave Gate:

I find it very sad that a university (never mind that it's a former Polytechnic) which has some genuinely world leading research groups (I know that you won't believe me on that, but it's true, my ex-wife used to belong to one of them) feels it necessary to launch something as facile as this.




It is very sad that an institution like that is used to feed the ego of that washed up idiot, wasting the time and money of young people in the process. I wish someone with the means to stop this would do so - is there any sort of organisation in the education system at all?


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1899
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Dave Gate]
      #994884 - 26/06/12 07:04 PM
Quote Dave Gate:

........which has some genuinely world leading research groups.......




One swallow (or a handful of them) doesn't make a summer!

But hand it to Cap'n Hook, he's managed to persuade some impressionable 'tuned in and turned on' academic that such a course will flourish, yeah well, we'll see, to be sure the Hookster will make a few bob out of it


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Anonymous
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994886 - 26/06/12 07:32 PM
What a Rotter!


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Dave Gate
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994941 - 27/06/12 07:17 AM
For what it's worth. I think that someone should have said "hang on a second, this is really bad PR, and will play right into the hands of the 'ex-poly, Mickey Mouse degree' types" and also that, to be honest, if they really wanted Peter Hook's input why not just hire him as a guest lecturer for a couple of hours to speak to students on existing courses?

--------------------
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Veeagra



Joined: 02/07/08
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994956 - 27/06/12 09:23 AM
Lesson 1, don't let someone buy a nightclub with your money.


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1899
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Dave Gate]
      #994959 - 27/06/12 09:26 AM
Quote Dave Gate:

For what it's worth. I think that someone should have said "hang on a second, this is really bad PR, and will play right into the hands of the 'ex-poly, Mickey Mouse degree' types" and also that, to be honest, if they really wanted Peter Hook's input why not just hire him as a guest lecturer for a couple of hours to speak to students on existing courses?




+1


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3506
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: OneWorld]
      #994964 - 27/06/12 09:59 AM
Quote OneWorld:

Quote Dave Gate:

For what it's worth. I think that someone should have said "hang on a second, this is really bad PR, and will play right into the hands of the 'ex-poly, Mickey Mouse degree' types" and also that, to be honest, if they really wanted Peter Hook's input why not just hire him as a guest lecturer for a couple of hours to speak to students on existing courses?




+1




If they give that guy the time of day they deserve nothing but contempt and pity. As do the suckers who sign up for the course. Really a degree? Such a ridiculous concept to allow an academically and vocationally worthless waste of paper to be called a degree. More a certificate of idiocy.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994969 - 27/06/12 10:45 AM
But if you want to learn about the music industry you could do a lot worse than learn from someone like Hooky, he knows it inside out! Unlike a lot of other talking heads who have never been anywhere near it other than a book and lots of internet research.


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3506
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #994971 - 27/06/12 11:01 AM
Quote ow:

But if you want to learn about the music industry you could do a lot worse than learn from someone like Hooky, he knows it inside out! Unlike a lot of other talking heads who have never been anywhere near it other than a book and lots of internet research.




What pearls of wisdom is he likely to depart? How to put a free mixmag cd into a cd player and mime dj gigs? How to have one of the most bloated egos in the music business? How to have long running petty disputes with everyone you have worked with?

Think I can let that golden opportunity pass me by.


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Dave Gate
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994977 - 27/06/12 11:55 AM
Like I said, he might have been useful as a guest lecturer, but among others so that the students could make up their minds about how useful what he said was. But it's not really a Masters level course, if you ask me.

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4402
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #994983 - 27/06/12 12:11 PM
Quote johnny h:


What pearls of wisdom is he likely to depart? How to put a free mixmag cd into a cd player and mime dj gigs? How to have one of the most bloated egos in the music business? How to have long running petty disputes with everyone you have worked with?

Think I can let that golden opportunity pass me by.




You missed, how to run a club into the ground!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hacienda-How-Not-Run-Club/dp/1847371353

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #994986 - 27/06/12 12:27 PM
Quote johnny h:

Quote ow:

But if you want to learn about the music industry you could do a lot worse than learn from someone like Hooky, he knows it inside out! Unlike a lot of other talking heads who have never been anywhere near it other than a book and lots of internet research.




What pearls of wisdom is he likely to depart? How to put a free mixmag cd into a cd player and mime dj gigs? How to have one of the most bloated egos in the music business? How to have long running petty disputes with everyone you have worked with?

Think I can let that golden opportunity pass me by.




Yeah!


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Fen_Tigger



Joined: 23/03/12
Posts: 30
Loc: Below Sea Level
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #994991 - 27/06/12 01:07 PM
Quote ow:

But if you want to learn about the music industry you could do a lot worse than learn from someone like Hooky, he knows it inside out!




"You see what I did back then? Never, ever do that..."

--------------------
"Playing the right notes, but not neccesarily in the right order"


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The Red Bladder



Joined: 05/06/07
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #994996 - 27/06/12 01:33 PM
In unrelated news, Jeffrey Skilling, former CEO of Enron will be giving a series of lectures on corporate governance, Fred Goodwin, former CEO of RBS, will be conducting seminars on successful mergers and acquisitions and the role of due diligence in banking and last, but not least, Richard (The Gorilla!) Fuld, former CEO of Lehmann Brothers, will be heading up a new course on how to manage corporate risk.


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Anonymous
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995004 - 27/06/12 01:53 PM
"Quick Hooky run! They're after me now! I'll hold 'em off, get the motor started!"


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #995006 - 27/06/12 01:58 PM
Quote johnny h:

...The guy is an idiot...




As are you, you parott's twat!







Don't worry I've already called the headmaster.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995007 - 27/06/12 02:00 PM
Quote The Red Bladder:

In unrelated news, Jeffrey Skilling, former CEO of Enron will be giving a series of lectures on corporate governance, Fred Goodwin, former CEO of RBS, will be conducting seminars on successful mergers and acquisitions and the role of due diligence in banking and last, but not least, Richard (The Gorilla!) Fuld, former CEO of Lehmann Brothers, will be heading up a new course on how to manage corporate risk.




Well wrap me in gaffa tape to save my sides from splitting open in this mini festival of insightful hilarity.


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Mike Stranks
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995009 - 27/06/12 02:13 PM
Children... children... play nicely....


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Veeagra



Joined: 02/07/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Sweden
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995010 - 27/06/12 02:16 PM
Nice to see plenty of positive vibes floating around the SOS forum as usual.

Perhaps Peter Hook could be the new scapegoat of the new breed of moaning, complaining, dull, unimaginative, witless early middle aged British male who seem to be the dominant force on web forums and Facebook at the moment. If you have problems they surely can't be your own fault, I think we should blame Hooky.


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3506
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Veeagra]
      #995017 - 27/06/12 03:10 PM
Quote Veeagra:

Nice to see plenty of positive vibes floating around the SOS forum as usual.

Perhaps Peter Hook could be the new scapegoat of the new breed of moaning, complaining, dull, unimaginative, witless early middle aged British male who seem to be the dominant force on web forums and Facebook at the moment. If you have problems they surely can't be your own fault, I think we should blame Hooky.




I think its very positive to strongly oppose something which is very bad for the music industry and those who wish to learn about it. The passive approach, such as the "all is lost" or "doesn't affect me" mindsets is the negative one. If one young person reads this thread one day and it deters them from attempting this 'degree' then we've achieved something wholly positive here today.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #995021 - 27/06/12 03:35 PM
Who says it's bad, you? And what are your credentials on the subject? Or are you just going along with the forum law that says all music degrees are useless unless run to exacting German standards?

Do you know the course structure and curriculum? Do you know who else is involved? Do you know anything at all about this, right now? Except for the BBC story and the fact that everyone "else" says it's bullshit? That's the standard opinion and response to this type of thing on this board for the "cool and worthy"

The UK needs to nurture entrepreneurs and one of our big strengths is media. This course isn't about how to play with pro-tools and dream of being Dr DooHahDeh. It's about the business.


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Phil Reynolds



Joined: 11/06/06
Posts: 217
Loc: Douglas, Isle of Man.
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995026 - 27/06/12 04:18 PM
I sold him a bass a couple of months ago. Seems like a perfectly nice guy.

--------------------
"We knocked on the doors of Hell's darker chambers..." But no-one answered, so we went to the pub instead.


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995042 - 27/06/12 06:47 PM
Quote ow:

Who says it's bad, you? And what are your credentials on the subject? Or are you just going along with the forum law that says all music degrees are useless unless run to exacting German standards?

Do you know the course structure and curriculum? Do you know who else is involved? Do you know anything at all about this, right now? Except for the BBC story and the fact that everyone "else" says it's bullshit? That's the standard opinion and response to this type of thing on this board for the "cool and worthy"

The UK needs to nurture entrepreneurs and one of our big strengths is media. This course isn't about how to play with pro-tools and dream of being Dr DooHahDeh. It's about the business.




Without Tony Wilson and his inside track to the world of media business JD, NO and "Hookie" would be unlikely to have been seen outside the bedroom.

So he has no track record in the music business, no history in education. Why should anyone take him seriously? He's not an entrepreneur, he's just unemployed.

I'd quite like to try rally driving. Would you like to sponsor me?

--------------------
Onward and outward


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: shufflebeat]
      #995062 - 27/06/12 09:20 PM
If he came to you and said he was starting a small record company with major distribution and wanted to sign you, what would you say?


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Dave Gate
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995068 - 27/06/12 09:47 PM
Quote ow:

If he came to you and said he was starting a small record company with major distribution and wanted to sign you, what would you say?




Cheers, Pete, but I'm not making music anymore. However, I know a couple of good bands . . .

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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995076 - 27/06/12 10:52 PM
Quote ow:

If he came to you and said he was starting a small record company with major distribution and wanted to sign you, what would you say?




"Sorry, buddy. You're in the wrong dream".

He has no experience or sway in the (small) circles I work in and it could be a bloody nightmare to be tied to his vanity project for 5-7 years with no option to work for myself or anyone else.

--------------------
Onward and outward


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3506
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995097 - 28/06/12 06:09 AM
Quote ow:

If he came to you and said he was starting a small record company with major distribution and wanted to sign you, what would you say?




Quite clearly the answer would be no. With his credibility in tatters he would offer little other than a cheap headline. And how well does he get on with people?

MAni vs Hook

I wouldn't trust a guy who could inspire that kind of hatred. Good luck if you think you can.


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The Red Bladder



Joined: 05/06/07
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995162 - 28/06/12 11:03 AM
So far, I have gleaned from this thread and by looking elsewhere on the interweb

1. There once was a band called Joy Division.

2. They had a bass player called Hook.

3. They had one hit in the UK.

Until this thread came along, I had never heard of Hook or Joy Division. But apparently, having been a bass player in a band that once had a local hit somewhere is enough to educate children all about the music business.

When you think of all the drunken dead-beats and dope-heads that have been in and out of all sorts of bands that people have actually heard of outside of the UK, there must be enough has-beens-who-never-were to staff every music course in the UK! Uriah Heap alone had enough bods drifting in and out to staff several polytechnics with recovering alcoholics - and that's a band people have actually heard of.

If all else fails, I can always get a gig as a college lecturer - now where did I put those old posters for Raving Jim Grunt and The Pubes?

What d'you mean, you've never heard of them?


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Phil Reynolds



Joined: 11/06/06
Posts: 217
Loc: Douglas, Isle of Man.
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995171 - 28/06/12 11:17 AM
Quote The Red Bladder:

So far, I have gleaned from this thread and by looking elsewhere on the interweb

1. There once was a band called Joy Division.

2. They had a bass player called Hook.

3. They had one hit in the UK.

Until this thread came along, I had never heard of Hook or Joy Division. But apparently, having been a bass player in a band that once had a local hit somewhere is enough to educate children all about the music business.

When you think of all the drunken dead-beats and dope-heads that have been in and out of all sorts of bands that people have actually heard of outside of the UK, there must be enough has-beens-who-never-were to staff every music course in the UK! Uriah Heap alone had enough bods drifting in and out to staff several polytechnics with recovering alcoholics - and that's a band people have actually heard of.

If all else fails, I can always get a gig as a college lecturer - now where did I put those old posters for Raving Jim Grunt and The Pubes?

What d'you mean, you've never heard of them?




'tis a bit more to it than that...

...he was a member of New Order who, for quite a while, were one of the biggest bands in the world. Also he was closely involved with what was probably the most dysfunctional record label in the world - and the club they owned which, despite financial mismanagement on a scale unimaginable to even Bob Diamond, managed to play a significant part in changing pop music culture (whether for good or bad is open to debate, but change it, they did).

So I'd guess his major would be in "how NOT to do business...

Like this, for instance...

--------------------
"We knocked on the doors of Hell's darker chambers..." But no-one answered, so we went to the pub instead.


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The Red Bladder



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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995180 - 28/06/12 11:59 AM
Having never heard of New Order either, I You-Tube'ed them and they sound like a cross between Kraftwerk, David Bowie, Soft Cell and Depech Mode - all of which probably pre-date them.

This is probably all part of that strange phenomenon of people in the UK honestly believing that the rest of Planet Earth revolves around them and that what happens in the UK is in some way important. That may have been true in the wake of The Beatles, Stones and Pink Floyd, but apart from Adele, World-class acts no longer come from Britain.


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995183 - 28/06/12 12:14 PM
Quote The Red Bladder:

Having never heard of New Order either, I You-Tube'ed them and they sound like a cross between Kraftwerk, David Bowie, Soft Cell and Depech Mode - all of which probably pre-date them.





What were you doing in the 80s? Blue Monday is the biggest selling 12" of all time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jun/14/blue-monday-biggest-selling-si ngle

New Order are contemporaries of Depeche Mode and Soft Cell.

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The Red Bladder



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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995186 - 28/06/12 12:21 PM
I was not in the UK in the 80s, so I only got to hear about acts that reached further than Manchester.


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Frisonic



Joined: 27/01/10
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995192 - 28/06/12 12:39 PM
Quote ow:

Quote The Red Bladder:

In unrelated news, Jeffrey Skilling, former CEO of Enron will be giving a series of lectures on corporate governance, Fred Goodwin, former CEO of RBS, will be conducting seminars on successful mergers and acquisitions and the role of due diligence in banking and last, but not least, Richard (The Gorilla!) Fuld, former CEO of Lehmann Brothers, will be heading up a new course on how to manage corporate risk.




Well wrap me in gaffa tape to save my sides from splitting open in this mini festival of insightful hilarity.




I don't know, or care at this point who Peter Hook is but I though Red Bladder's post was funny!

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Frisonic



Joined: 27/01/10
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #995194 - 28/06/12 12:46 PM
Quote Richie Royale:

What were you doing in the 80s? Blue Monday is the biggest selling 12" of all time. New Order are contemporaries of Depeche Mode and Soft Cell.




It was the advent of this genre of music that caused me to go and discover bebop and cool jazz from the 1950s. By way of diversion rather than any kind of personal musical development... That's what I was doing in the 1980s!

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995198 - 28/06/12 01:12 PM
Quote The Red Bladder:

I was not in the UK in the 80s, so I only got to hear about acts that reached further than Manchester.




I take it you weren't in the USA then as they were seemingly popular there on the "Hot Dance Club Songs" chart as well as working with Arthur Baker.

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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3266
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Phil Reynolds]
      #995212 - 28/06/12 02:07 PM
Quote Phil Reynolds:

Quote The Red Bladder:

So far, I have gleaned from this thread and by looking elsewhere on the interweb

1. There once was a band called Joy Division.

2. They had a bass player called Hook.

3. They had one hit in the UK.

Until this thread came along, I had never heard of Hook or Joy Division. But apparently, having been a bass player in a band that once had a local hit somewhere is enough to educate children all about the music business.

When you think of all the drunken dead-beats and dope-heads that have been in and out of all sorts of bands that people have actually heard of outside of the UK, there must be enough has-beens-who-never-were to staff every music course in the UK! Uriah Heap alone had enough bods drifting in and out to staff several polytechnics with recovering alcoholics - and that's a band people have actually hear
If all else fails, I can always get a gig as a college lecturer - now where did I put those old posters for Raving Jim Grunt and The Pubes?

What d'you mean, you've never heard of them?




'tis a bit more to it than that..




I was in Manchester for most of NO's existence and feel TRB has just about nailed it.

Out of curiosity, did PH actually play bass on Blue Monday? It sounded a lot like a synth bass to me.

I've got nothing against the guy, I just think teachers, like electricians, need to actually know what they're doing.

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: shufflebeat]
      #995218 - 28/06/12 02:40 PM
Quote shufflebeat:


Out of curiosity, did PH actually play bass on Blue Monday? It sounded a lot like a synth bass to me.





It is a synth, but Hook is credited as bass and synthesisers on their work, but Blue Monday has no notes on the sleeve. Wiki says

Quote:

The verse section features the song's signature throbbing synth bass line, played by a Moog Source, overlaid with Peter Hook's bass guitar leads.




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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #995223 - 28/06/12 03:01 PM
Ah, I've just remembered:

"Now I stand here waiting
(ner - ner - ner, ner, ner - ner)"

That's going to be stuck in my head all bloody day now.

Nothing else for it.. "Sweet home Alabama - diddle, diddle, di-baoow"

--------------------
Onward and outward


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1899
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995237 - 28/06/12 04:30 PM
Quote ow:

If he came to you and said he was starting a small record company with major distribution and wanted to sign you, what would you say?




He's tried that with some friends of mine way back, around the Monaco days, it fell flat on it's face, they said he spent more time on his egotron, expecting the members of the band to exhalt him, sweep the dust form his boots with their eyelashes, but they didn't want!


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The Red Bladder



Joined: 05/06/07
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995238 - 28/06/12 04:33 PM
My gripe is not whether New Order was famous or not (I was working in hip-hop at the time and it is quite possible that we have a copy of that 12" single in our library as a result of research into other parallel music styles) but that being the bass player in a band that most people have never heard of, is qualification enough to teach our children about the music business.

I am sure that Mr Hook is a nice man and perfectly capable of speaking to a room full of college kids, but this smells far too much of the thicker end of the wedge. I know people who you have actually heard of, people who have played with real bands who had turn-overs of hundreds of millions, but so far, none of them have expressed a desire to teach kids about business economics. I know people whose job it is to finance whole tours by massive 'stadium fillers' and they may just be able to say something about the music business.

If I ever needed help about knowing how the music business works, I can think of so many people whom I could ask. Tour managers, agents, road managers, PA and lighting company directors, tour finance directors, lawyers and accountants and all sorts of people in between.

These are the REAL music business people - not the bass player from a band that once had a hit a long time ago.


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BJG145



Joined: 06/08/05
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995242 - 28/06/12 04:58 PM
Quote shufflebeat:

Ah, I've just remembered:

"Now I stand here waiting
(ner - ner - ner, ner, ner - ner)"

That's going to be stuck in my head all bloody day now.




...or...

"Love, love will tear us apart, again".

Quote Richie Royale:

Blue Monday is the biggest selling 12" of all time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jun/14/blue-monday-biggest-selling-si ngle




Hook himself penned another entry in the same list.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jun/14/joy-division-ian-curtis-suicid e


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chris...
active member


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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995246 - 28/06/12 06:07 PM
Quote The Red Bladder:

the bass player in a band that most people have never heard of



Blimey. I assume you meant to type "most people HAVE heard of".

Pretty sure you'll be in a minority of one here!

Presumably it's because PH/NO are/were famous, that he's been asked to do this, without (as you note) having much in the way of obvious qualification for the role.

(maybe there are some other non-obvious ones I don't know about)


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turbodave



Joined: 25/04/08
Posts: 2373
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: chris...]
      #995249 - 28/06/12 06:17 PM
Quote chris...:

Quote The Red Bladder:

the bass player in a band that most people have never heard of



Blimey. I assume you meant to type "most people HAVE heard of".

Pretty sure you'll be in a minority of one here!

Presumably it's because he's so famous, that he's been asked to do this, without (as you note) without having much in the way of obvious qualification for the role.

(maybe there are some other non-obvious ones I don't know about)



+1 on that, regardless of what I think of their musical contribution, they are enormously influential in certain musical circles..I even went for an interview for Hooks band "Revenge"...I thought he was a &%$£%^er. Dave

--------------------
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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995268 - 28/06/12 11:03 PM
Quote The Red Bladder:

...When you think of all the drunken dead-beats and dope-heads that have been in and out of all sorts of bands that people have actually heard of outside of the UK, there must be enough has-beens-who-never-were to staff every music course in the UK! Uriah Heap alone had enough bods drifting in and out to staff several polytechnics with recovering alcoholics - and that's a band people have actually heard of...




Bring me more gaffa please barman, there goes me spleen!

btw, if you check you will find that at least one ex Heep does indeed work in education teaching music in Newmarket.


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: chris...]
      #995272 - 29/06/12 12:03 AM
Quote chris...:

Quote The Red Bladder:

the bass player in a band that most people have never heard of



Blimey. I assume you meant to type "most people HAVE heard of".

Pretty sure you'll be in a minority of one here!





I'd have to agree! As much as I dislike hook's behavior in recent years I can't believe anyone who has some serious involvement in the music industry at post teenage level hasn't heard of joy division and new order! They were massively influential and made some truly great music.


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995278 - 29/06/12 02:25 AM
Quote The Red Bladder:

If I ever needed help about knowing how the music business works, I can think of so many people whom I could ask. Tour managers, agents, road managers, PA and lighting company directors, tour finance directors, lawyers and accountants and all sorts of people in between.



Indeed. But these people are likely to be the last people to get involved in much the same way that countries are governed by self-serving, self aggrandising, clueless arsewipes - because the people actually best qualified to do the job are the last people on earth who'd volunteer!

That and the fact that the best qualified are just probably too damned busy!

And there is so much about all of this that reminds me of Monty Python's 'How to do it' Blue Peter pisstake...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNfGyIW7aHM

HOW TO PLAY THE FLUTE...

"Well, you blow there and move your fingers up and down here."

"Great, Alan ... and next week..."

Oh that it were so simple!

But sadly, that's the kind of thing that's being sold to SO many young people with our (ahem) 'education system' ...

"Well, you just take some jolly good exams and then get a terribly terrific job."

"Great, Alan ... and next week..."

Oh that it were so simple.

And I am not just referring to Music Tech!

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The Red Bladder



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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #995284 - 29/06/12 06:48 AM
Quote johnny h:

I can't believe anyone who has some serious involvement in the music industry at post teenage level hasn't heard of joy division and new order! They were massively influential and made some truly great music.




If you go down to Dover and stand on top of the cliffs, on a clear day you can see distant land. This is called Foreign-Land and it is big, very big. Even bigger than Manchester and Birmingham combined. Literally billions of people live in Foreign-Land and most of them could not find Manchester on a map to save their lives. About half of them have never ever even heard the type of music you think is incredibly influential.

In this vast Foreign-Land, there are types of music that are heard by even more people than some electronic Euro-pop from Manchester. Imagine that!!! Wow! Is it possible? Sufi, Mbaqanga, West African Dance, Mandopop and so on - all heard by more people and more influential than some electronic Euro-pop from Manchester.

You should visit Foreign-Land some time!

As for OW's posting - ex-Heeper teaching kids? You be telling me next that there IS a God after all!


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turbodave



Joined: 25/04/08
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995285 - 29/06/12 07:07 AM
Quote The Red Bladder:

Quote johnny h:

I can't believe anyone who has some serious involvement in the music industry at post teenage level hasn't heard of joy division and new order! They were massively influential and made some truly great music.




If you go down to Dover and stand on top of the cliffs, on a clear day you can see distant land. This is called Foreign-Land and it is big, very big. Even bigger than Manchester and Birmingham combined. Literally billions of people live in Foreign-Land and most of them could not find Manchester on a map to save their lives. About half of them have never ever even heard the type of music you think is incredibly influential.

In this vast Foreign-Land, there are types of music that are heard by even more people than some electronic Euro-pop from Manchester. Imagine that!!! Wow! Is it possible? Sufi, Mbaqanga, West African Dance, Mandopop and so on - all heard by more people and more influential than some electronic Euro-pop from Manchester.

You should visit Foreign-Land some time!

As for OW's posting - ex-Heeper teaching kids? You be telling me next that there IS a God after all!



Wow , you really got an issue there Red...I toured with The Fall for 3 years and we were more successful in Germany and the States than we were/are here...and believe it or not us northerners are erudite and cosmopolitan regarding international music too. Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995286 - 29/06/12 07:35 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Monday_(New_Order_song)#Chart_positions< /a>

It would appear that they were quite popular outside of the UK on all three occaisions that the track was released.

Joy Division also appear to have left their mark on an international scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closer_(Joy_Division_album)#Reception
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Will_Tear_Us_Apart#Popularity

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BJG145



Joined: 06/08/05
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995289 - 29/06/12 07:43 AM
Quote The Red Bladder:

This is probably all part of that strange phenomenon of people in the UK honestly believing...that what happens in the UK is in some way important.



But of course it is, to them. I don't give a hoot about Mandopop. That's my prerogative.


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3506
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995299 - 29/06/12 08:16 AM
Quote The Red Bladder:

Quote johnny h:

I can't believe anyone who has some serious involvement in the music industry at post teenage level hasn't heard of joy division and new order! They were massively influential and made some truly great music.




If you go down to Dover and stand on top of the cliffs, on a clear day you can see distant land. This is called Foreign-Land and it is big, very big. Even bigger than Manchester and Birmingham combined. Literally billions of people live in Foreign-Land and most of them could not find Manchester on a map to save their lives. About half of them have never ever even heard the type of music you think is incredibly influential.

In this vast Foreign-Land, there are types of music that are heard by even more people than some electronic Euro-pop from Manchester. Imagine that!!! Wow! Is it possible? Sufi, Mbaqanga, West African Dance, Mandopop and so on - all heard by more people and more influential than some electronic Euro-pop from Manchester.

You should visit Foreign-Land some time!




I don't care if you've lived on the moon for 30 years - It's still incredible you've never heard 'love will tear us apart' before!


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995304 - 29/06/12 08:32 AM
This thread cracks me up. It started as a discussion about whether Hooky is a right and proper person to teach people about the dark arts and ended up as a dicussion abotu whether anyone's ever actually heard of him!


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995306 - 29/06/12 08:37 AM
Quote The Red Bladder:

...You be telling me next that there IS a God after all!




I don't think there's a god, but is there god? Yes, i think there is.


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HollowAxis



Joined: 31/12/11
Posts: 129
Loc: London
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #995310 - 29/06/12 08:47 AM
Quote johnny h:

Quote The Red Bladder:

Quote johnny h:

I can't believe anyone who has some serious involvement in the music industry at post teenage level hasn't heard of joy division and new order! They were massively influential and made some truly great music.




If you go down to Dover and stand on top of the cliffs, on a clear day you can see distant land. This is called Foreign-Land and it is big, very big. Even bigger than Manchester and Birmingham combined. Literally billions of people live in Foreign-Land and most of them could not find Manchester on a map to save their lives. About half of them have never ever even heard the type of music you think is incredibly influential.

In this vast Foreign-Land, there are types of music that are heard by even more people than some electronic Euro-pop from Manchester. Imagine that!!! Wow! Is it possible? Sufi, Mbaqanga, West African Dance, Mandopop and so on - all heard by more people and more influential than some electronic Euro-pop from Manchester.

You should visit Foreign-Land some time!




I don't care if you've lived on the moon for 30 years - It's still incredible you've never heard 'love will tear us apart' before!




+1

I come from 'foreign-land'. (Well slightly so. South Africa is on the fringes with regards to arts certainly).
I know many people who have no interest in 'Manchester electro-euro pop' who know of these bands.
If you've watched popular films in the years since they've made music you will have heard their songs used extensively.

Lastly, in 2009 for a short time I was in a band with a drummer who came to South Africa from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. He had only EVER played 'traditional' music in his country, but he joined our rock band because he had heard of the bands we listed as influences, Joy Division among them.

These bands are well known. It's pretty certain.


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zoosound
member


Joined: 13/12/02
Posts: 49
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995312 - 29/06/12 08:50 AM
Well the wisemen at the top certainly got one thing right by appointing a legend/w*?%er to endorse this course. People in the industry are talking about it. This may, or may not be the point. It does kind of put in perspective how much the music industry relies on hype tho. Sadly, I think this approach is going to work for them. Look at the popularity of courses already running nationwide with no figurehead attached


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995369 - 29/06/12 11:39 AM
Quote The Red Bladder:

but apart from Adele, World-class acts no longer come from Britain.




Adele? Where are they from then? Not another Coldplay/Snow Patrol influenced combo surely?


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Frisonic



Joined: 27/01/10
Posts: 3721
Loc: London, United Kingdom
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: hollowsun]
      #995374 - 29/06/12 12:16 PM
Quote hollowsun:

in much the same way that countries are governed by self-serving, self aggrandising, clueless arsewipes - because the people actually best qualified to do the job are the last people on earth who'd volunteer!




As a slight aside, and generally I agree with your comment Hollowsun, but Italy's current prime minister Mario Monti is an exception to this rule. As the only credible person with the appropriate skills sets he was literally summoned by the President, who badly needed to get rid of Silvio Berlusconi last autumn (the latter being an excellent example of what you describe). Mario didn't want the job but accepted it purely out of duty (I know this to be true - my wife is kind of his surrogate daughter), stating he will undertake the task of administration but only up to to period of 24 months, by which time party politicians had better be in a fit state to govern. We'll see. America's President Ford was another. He wasn't elected either, rather being 'placed' by circumstances. Neither of those two men could have won an election for the simple reason that they wouldn't have wanted to. Yet they are/have been in their times, the best person for the job. Alan Greenspan said he was only half joking when commenting that anybody who desires to be a President of the USA should automatically be excluded from applying... Whatever you think about Mr Greenspan there is no denying he is probably the only person alive who has met as many American Presidents apart from the Queen of England and her husband. As for Mario, he's looking forward to getting back to his university. At heart he's just an academic (although I suspect Angela Merkel has thought up a few other things to call him this week...).

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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Frisonic]
      #995384 - 29/06/12 01:20 PM
My comments were extremely general and non-specific - there have been some excellent and well intentioned politicos but they are fairly rare ... or if they start out with every best intentions, it tends not to last long.

Quote Frisonic:

Alan Greenspan said he was only half joking when commenting that anybody who desires to be a President of the USA should automatically be excluded from applying...



He makes a good point.

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BJG145



Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3435
Loc: Norwich UK
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995390 - 29/06/12 01:44 PM
I see Blair's angling for another go.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jun/27/tony-blair-prime-minister-a gain?newsfeed=true


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: BJG145]
      #995407 - 29/06/12 02:55 PM
Quote BJG145:

I see Blair's angling for another go.



God help us!

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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3506
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: hollowsun]
      #995430 - 29/06/12 05:36 PM
Quote hollowsun:

Quote BJG145:

I see Blair's angling for another go.



God help us!




Compared to Cameron and clegg? I'll take it.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #995435 - 29/06/12 07:11 PM
+1. Blair's a political genius, possibly one of the best PMs we've ever had. It's just a shame he wasn't on our side.


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BJG145



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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995438 - 29/06/12 07:20 PM


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chris...
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #995450 - 29/06/12 10:33 PM
Quote The Red Bladder:

Sufi, Mbaqanga, West African Dance, Mandopop



I take it these are big in Japan...?


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: johnny h]
      #995454 - 29/06/12 11:00 PM
Quote johnny h:

Compared to Cameron and clegg? I'll take it.



Yes you would. Keep the ragged red flag flying!

You'd take someone who was part of launching an illegal war in the middle east and then became (ahem) 'Ambassador For Peace' there (at a cost of around £1,000,000 pa to the taxpayer) and who, through various backhanders, became a multi-millionaire and rich enough to buy (I think it was) five prime residential properties each costing £millions, who published his memoirs but, unlike the poor sods he put into the front line to face the bullets and bombs of the Taleban, didn't even have the balls to face a sodding book signing, FFS? He oversaw cash for peerages, sold our steel industry down the toilet when he wrote a letter to the Romanian president recommending his 'friend', multi-billionaire steel magnate Lakshmi Mittal, to set up shop there (in exchange for a £125,000 donation from Mittal to the Labour party's coffers) and who handed over everything to Gordon Brown, the most incompetent treasurer possibly of all time, who sold off our gold reserves for thruppence (making the rich even richer) and then, with Ed Balls, spent and borrowed on an obscenely profligate scale (£4 spent for every £3 taken in tax revenue not to mention PFI schemes ... which are now in trouble - it's come back to bite their arses) such that we are now around £5 trillions in debt.

Economists described the depth of the problems we have here while Brown lied and waffled on about 'the green shoots of recovery' - we didn't see them ... still in the sh!t thanks to him ... and despite his claims, he didn't save the world ... ooops, sorry - slip of the tongue on his part in one of his speeches at Westminster ... retract ... save the UK from economic disaster, he bloody well created it, the same man who promised an end to 'boom and bust'. Well, he left us bust! Oh, of course, you'll cite 'global recession' - well how come countries like Canada escaped it? Because unlike Brown who was shouldering up to the money and the bankers, they had sound economic policies and regulation of the banks in place. Brown, like Blair before him, was an arse.

But this is what Labour do, new or old ... spend, spend, spend. I have lived through many of their 'reigns' and it's always been the same - leave the country in a mess. They take OUR money and think it's theirs to spend/squander as they want and the last lot spent more of our money and created more new laws (3,000+) than several governments did in succession.

I'm not saying that the new lot are any better but Christ, they had/have a serious mess to clear up. And now Labour are a pathetic opposition with the nasal whining of the Ed Miller Band just opposing things they'd have likely done anyway - or worse - if (God forbid) they'd got back into power (as Labour like to refer to it as ... they are not "in power", they are 'in government').

Lest we forget, we are £trillions in debt and £120,000,000 is currently paid out EVERY DAY just to service the interest on the loans Labour racked up in their 13 year tenure. My 15-year-old daughter's children will be paying for that. And the (illegal) war Blair was part of in the middle east costs us £millions a day (and the lives of British servicemen), has lasted almost twice as long as WWII with no sign of ending while Blair ponses around as a f'king 'peace ambassador' there, arsing around in 5-star hotels with security guards, etc., at our expense for his non-job. Jesus! And that's before we factor in the £40,000,000 a day it costs to be part of the (failing) Euro Club.

Yeah - bring it on! Let's have Mr Smarm back in, the lying, conniving war criminal that he is. Good to know you support him and his cronies. Sorry, but I see him as the epitome of self-serving, self-aggrandising, ego driven, snouts in the trough, incompetent career politicos we have the misfortune to endure.

And to my eternal shame, I was one of the suckers who voted him/them in back in '97. He/they conned me along with millions of others ... including yourself. Things will only get better? Bollocks! More laws, more surveillance, campaigns for ID cards, increased detention times without arrest/trial and fiscal incompetence on a colossal scale.

Labour party? My arse! They were more Tory than this lot. My grandmother was Labour when Labour represented the working class. She went from door to door canvassing for them, was a personal friend of Callaghan when he was a young hopeful in the party, etc.. I am just glad she died before she saw the atrocity of New Labour and Blair and Brown who totally betrayed Labour's roots.

And shame on them during the last election campaign for running old footage of the original Labour party and trying to associate their corrupt dealings with the grass roots of the original party.

But we have gone seriously off-topic here and I shan't pursue the matter lest the thread get locked.

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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995455 - 29/06/12 11:03 PM
Quote ow:

+1. Blair's a political genius, possibly one of the best PMs we've ever had. It's just a shame he wasn't on our side.





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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: chris...]
      #995461 - 29/06/12 11:22 PM
Quote chris...:

I take it these are big in Japan...?



J-pop is HUUUUUGE there ... and K-pop (in Korea) probably/possibly outsells global hip hop by a long shot...

As annoying as those genres are.

I'm a little surprised that Lord Red of Bladdershire hadn't heard of Joy Division or New Order but he has a point...

In my travels, I can confirm that some bands enjoying good success here are barely known outside our borders. And stuff we've never heard of here are monstrously successful elsewhere (David Hasselhoff in Germany, for example - he's a god there it seems). And acts here that have no presence or relevance are massive in other markets (for example, X-Factor winner, Shayne Ward, who bombed enormously here, has a huge following in the far east). And so on.

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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3266
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995464 - 29/06/12 11:37 PM
HS, I don't think you're completely off topic. While there have always been incompetent self serving suits who somehow seem to slither their way into positions of influence in the last 15 year's I have seen just about every organisation I deal with, musical, educational, social services, housing has been infiltrated by salesmen with an uncanny knack of improving their own situation and being elsewhere when the brown stuff flies.

It may be that PH is just 5 years too late.

Our biggest problem at the moment seems to be that the current lot are trying to outBlair Blair but without, well, a clue.

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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
Posts: 4556
Loc: The Orient, East London
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Frisonic]
      #995465 - 29/06/12 11:47 PM
Quote Frisonic:

Quote hollowsun:

in much the same way that countries are governed by self-serving, self aggrandising, clueless arsewipes - because the people actually best qualified to do the job are the last people on earth who'd volunteer!




As a slight aside, and generally I agree with your comment Hollowsun, but Italy's current prime minister Mario Monti is an exception to this rule. As the only credible person with the appropriate skills sets he was literally summoned by the President, who badly needed to get rid of Silvio Berlusconi last autumn (the latter being an excellent example of what you describe). Mario didn't want the job but accepted it purely out of duty (I know this to be true - my wife is kind of his surrogate daughter), stating he will undertake the task of administration but only up to to period of 24 months, by which time party politicians had better be in a fit state to govern. We'll see. America's President Ford was another. He wasn't elected either, rather being 'placed' by circumstances. Neither of those two men could have won an election for the simple reason that they wouldn't have wanted to. Yet they are/have been in their times, the best person for the job. Alan Greenspan said he was only half joking when commenting that anybody who desires to be a President of the USA should automatically be excluded from applying... Whatever you think about Mr Greenspan there is no denying he is probably the only person alive who has met as many American Presidents apart from the Queen of England and her husband. As for Mario, he's looking forward to getting back to his university. At heart he's just an academic (although I suspect Angela Merkel has thought up a few other things to call him this week...).





Er...

Do you mean this Mario Monti?

Monti is a leading member of the exclusive Bilderberg Group. He has also been an international advisor to Goldman Sachs and The Coca-Cola Company. He has also been a member of the "Senior European Advisory Council" of Moody's and he is one of the members of the "Business and Economics Advisors Group" of the Atlantic Council.

All those groups are murky.

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I'm All Ears.


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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
Posts: 4556
Loc: The Orient, East London
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: hollowsun]
      #995466 - 29/06/12 11:59 PM
Quote hollowsun:

Quote chris...:

I take it these are big in Japan...?



J-pop is HUUUUUGE there ... and K-pop (in Korea) probably/possibly outsells global hip hop by a long shot...





Oh, no you're not going there again are you? We've been through this before.

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I'm All Ears.


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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
Posts: 4556
Loc: The Orient, East London
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995467 - 30/06/12 12:01 AM
Personally, I can understand someone not hearing of Joy Division. But New Order?

To try and veer back on topic, PH is broke and needs money. Thank God this isn't being subsidised by the taxpayer. Oh... wait...

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I'm All Ears.


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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
Posts: 4556
Loc: The Orient, East London
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995468 - 30/06/12 12:11 AM
From the article

As a mentor to students, he wants them to benefit from his own experience of how not to manage the business - with record labels and night clubs, such as Factory and the Hacienda.
"The way that Factory worked, it was full of very creative people who never looked after business - and that's why all those businesses crashed.
"They were based on very idealistic ideas, very creative, very naive.
"They only rumbled on because Joy Division and New Order's success paid for all our mistakes.
"In Factory and the Hacienda - and in many ways in New Order and Joy Division - we never really looked after business."


So to try and put his in a different context, would a crash-prone driving instructor get a job teaching people how not to drive?

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ken long]
      #995479 - 30/06/12 09:16 AM
Quote ken long:

From the article

As a mentor to students, he wants them to benefit from his own experience of how not to manage the business - with record labels and night clubs, such as Factory and the Hacienda.
"The way that Factory worked, it was full of very creative people who never looked after business - and that's why all those businesses crashed.
"They were based on very idealistic ideas, very creative, very naive.
"They only rumbled on because Joy Division and New Order's success paid for all our mistakes.
"In Factory and the Hacienda - and in many ways in New Order and Joy Division - we never really looked after business."


So to try and put his in a different context, would a crash-prone driving instructor get a job teaching people how not to drive?




You're being ridiculous. You know, of course, that this is meant in the context of 'learn from one's mistakes'.

Crikey, you lot are a bit poisonous when you get started aren't you? It's like a load of footballers wives getting together in a Harvester and slagging off the fake tans on the overweight mingers at the bar.

At least give the guy a chance to get started or something before you crucify him!

I think we've got alot of failed musos on here who perhaps have an over-inflated perception of their own importance in the music world. This is how it comes across anyway.


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ken long]
      #995492 - 30/06/12 11:17 AM
Quote ken long:

Oh, no you're not going there again are you? We've been through this before.



We have indeed!

But sheer numbers there dictate (especially as J- and K-pop are also very popular in China)

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fletcher



Joined: 01/05/05
Posts: 1219
Loc: london
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995499 - 30/06/12 12:13 PM
who is Peter Hook?


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995500 - 30/06/12 12:14 PM
Quote White Car Man:


I think we've got alot of failed musos on here who perhaps have an over-inflated perception of their own importance in the music world. This is how it comes across anyway.





Au contraire, I think we have a lot of working musos (et al) on here who struggle but survive (like in the real world) in a marketplace awash with self aggrandizing (spellchecker alert) individuals. We have seen behind the curtain and recognise empty sales talk when we see it. There's little enough money to spare, if some of it is to go to the likes of PH (no reason why not) then let him do something useful in return.

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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995501 - 30/06/12 12:15 PM
What's a Harvester?

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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: fletcher]
      #995541 - 30/06/12 05:54 PM
Quote fletcher:

who is Peter Hook?



Peter Pan's arch enemy who took up playing bass when his career in brigandry started to fail!



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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: shufflebeat]
      #995542 - 30/06/12 05:56 PM
Quote shufflebeat:

What's a Harvester?






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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1899
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995553 - 30/06/12 07:45 PM
I've been to some parts of the world where they've never heard of England let alone Hookleberry Hound, much to our dis-appointment, since the USA came into being the English aren't as world famous as we thought


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #995556 - 30/06/12 07:51 PM
I remeber a small-talk conversation with an American woman who when I replied "I'm English", answered, "oh, you're from Scotland, that's great!"


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fletcher



Joined: 01/05/05
Posts: 1219
Loc: london
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: hollowsun]
      #995565 - 30/06/12 09:08 PM
thank you, I was wondering.


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Frisonic



Joined: 27/01/10
Posts: 3721
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ken long]
      #995579 - 30/06/12 10:56 PM
Quote ken long:

Quote Frisonic:

Quote hollowsun:

in much the same way that countries are governed by self-serving, self aggrandising, clueless arsewipes - because the people actually best qualified to do the job are the last people on earth who'd volunteer!




As a slight aside, and generally I agree with your comment Hollowsun, but Italy's current prime minister Mario Monti is an exception to this rule. As the only credible person with the appropriate skills sets he was literally summoned by the President, who badly needed to get rid of Silvio Berlusconi last autumn (the latter being an excellent example of what you describe). Mario didn't want the job but accepted it purely out of duty (I know this to be true - my wife is kind of his surrogate daughter), stating he will undertake the task of administration but only up to to period of 24 months, by which time party politicians had better be in a fit state to govern. We'll see. America's President Ford was another. He wasn't elected either, rather being 'placed' by circumstances. Neither of those two men could have won an election for the simple reason that they wouldn't have wanted to. Yet they are/have been in their times, the best person for the job. Alan Greenspan said he was only half joking when commenting that anybody who desires to be a President of the USA should automatically be excluded from applying... Whatever you think about Mr Greenspan there is no denying he is probably the only person alive who has met as many American Presidents apart from the Queen of England and her husband. As for Mario, he's looking forward to getting back to his university. At heart he's just an academic (although I suspect Angela Merkel has thought up a few other things to call him this week...).





Er...

Do you mean this Mario Monti?

Monti is a leading member of the exclusive Bilderberg Group. He has also been an international advisor to Goldman Sachs and The Coca-Cola Company. He has also been a member of the "Senior European Advisory Council" of Moody's and he is one of the members of the "Business and Economics Advisors Group" of the Atlantic Council.

All those groups are murky.




I do. The only group you mention is the Bilderberg, which is not murky except in the eyes of certain second rate journalists and academics who are peeked because they have never been invited to join it. Goldman Sachs and Coca Cola are companies. I don't know what Mario was doing for Coca Cola but I do know what he was doing for GS, which is advising clients who were active in mergers or acquisitions on how to keep their strategies on the right side of European competition law. Saved everyone time and money, especially the competition authorities. What your list astonishingly doesn't mention is that he was Italy's EU Commissioner for some years! And as such served as the Commissioner of DG Competition. It was during that time that he shot down the GE/Honeywell merger (GE were a client of GS at the time and were furious about it, but the fault was with the GE and GS, basically being arogant - Mario was just doing his job as he always does). That was when he got the nickname 'Super Mario' because he was so tough, which he is (but in a very quiet, forensic way).

At this week's EU summit he humbled Angela Merkel into making huge concessions on austerity measures for both Italy and Spain, a remarkable act of statesmanship and brinkmanship on Mario's part for which Ms Merkel will have hell to pay when she gets home. He is basically apolitical but if anything conservative on fiscal policy whilst slightly left of centre on social policy. Just a very talented, low profile straight guy. Which is why everybody wants to have him on their team. When he agreed to do the consultancy work for GS there were 18 other banks after him! I'm not going to bother telling you that much of what you read about GS is based upon pure fiction, especially that sensationalist rubbish Rolling Stone published about 4 years ago, because you have probably swallowed it hook, line and sinker. But I will ask you if you've ever had the true skinny on any news story and seen it accurately reported in the media? If you have that would be a first for me!

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atechnogirl



Joined: 09/03/12
Posts: 103
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995849 - 02/07/12 11:49 PM
Quote ow:

I remeber a small-talk conversation with an American woman who when I replied "I'm English", answered, "oh, you're from Scotland, that's great!"



So sorry you were mistaken for being Scottish. That must have been awful OW. Are you better than that?


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: atechnogirl]
      #995862 - 03/07/12 06:07 AM
Better at geography.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: fletcher]
      #995958 - 03/07/12 01:51 PM
Quote fletcher:

who is Peter Hook?




He use to do comedy with Dudley Moore


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Frisonic]
      #995963 - 03/07/12 02:17 PM
Quote Frisonic:



At this week's EU summit he humbled Angela Merkel into making huge concessions on austerity measures for both Italy and Spain, a remarkable act of statesmanship and brinkmanship on Mario's part for which Ms Merkel will have hell to pay when she gets home. He is basically apolitical but if anything conservative on fiscal policy whilst slightly left of centre on social policy. Just a very talented, low profile straight guy. Which is why everybody wants to have him on their team. When he agreed to do the consultancy work for GS there were 18 other banks after him! I'm not going to bother telling you that much of what you read about GS is based upon pure fiction, especially that sensationalist rubbish Rolling Stone published about 4 years ago, because you have probably swallowed it hook, line and sinker. But I will ask you if you've ever had the true skinny on any news story and seen it accurately reported in the media? If you have that would be a first for me!




Are you saying every high powered organisation is clean and honest? Are you saying that there was never a plot to overthrow Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar. Are you saying there were no sinking of ships to start wars or that one of the Rothschild's didn't lie about Napoleon winning to lower stock values?

Haven't you read the news lately, in this country, about the corrupt media and banks, or is that just sensationalism too.
One good egg doesn't mean the whole batch is.


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Frisonic



Joined: 27/01/10
Posts: 3721
Loc: London, United Kingdom
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: ]
      #995976 - 03/07/12 04:02 PM
Quote Music Manic:

Quote Frisonic:



At this week's EU summit he humbled Angela Merkel into making huge concessions on austerity measures for both Italy and Spain, a remarkable act of statesmanship and brinkmanship on Mario's part for which Ms Merkel will have hell to pay when she gets home. He is basically apolitical but if anything conservative on fiscal policy whilst slightly left of centre on social policy. Just a very talented, low profile straight guy. Which is why everybody wants to have him on their team. When he agreed to do the consultancy work for GS there were 18 other banks after him! I'm not going to bother telling you that much of what you read about GS is based upon pure fiction, especially that sensationalist rubbish Rolling Stone published about 4 years ago, because you have probably swallowed it hook, line and sinker. But I will ask you if you've ever had the true skinny on any news story and seen it accurately reported in the media? If you have that would be a first for me!




Are you saying every high powered organisation is clean and honest? Are you saying that there was never a plot to overthrow Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar. Are you saying there were no sinking of ships to start wars or that one of the Rothschild's didn't lie about Napoleon winning to lower stock values?

Haven't you read the news lately, in this country, about the corrupt media and banks, or is that just sensationalism too.
One good egg doesn't mean the whole batch is.




Nope. Just that Mario Monti is a good guy and when I see people slag him off because they are off on one in general I defend him. Is all. People assume that everyone in high office is flawed. As we discussed earlier in this thread, most have flawed reasons for wanting to be in high office in the first place. But there are exceptions. I cited President Ford (USA) as another example. He wasn't elected either!

BTW yes I do think much of what is in the 'corrupt' (your word - I wouldn't disagree) media is just sensationalism. Which is why one must be wary about which witch is being hunted, by whom and what their motives are. As for bankers, today offers plenty of media attention. I don't know him personally, wouldn't want to, but I have it on good authority, over many years, from people who do that Bob Diamond is a nasty, arrogant, probably narcissistic (in the true meaning of the word) although not actually psychotic piece of work. But now that he has resigned and is free to say what he likes/knows I for one am looking forward to his little 'tete a tete' with the Treasury Select tomorrow (they are probably a bit nervous). The boot will not be coming off his foot but another one might well be squarely placed upon the regulators. Not that the media will accurately report that!

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BJG145



Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3435
Loc: Norwich UK
Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #1007546 - 07/09/12 05:03 PM
I see The Guardian ran a feature on New Order yesterday...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/sep/06/new-order-unexpected-rebirth-b estival

...in anticipation of their headline slot at Bestival.

http://2012.bestival.net/line-up/artists/new-order

Quote:

Sumner tells a very New Order story about being asked, in the 80s, to adapt the song to advertise Sunkist. Gretton, a man of staunch socialist principles, was in hospital and the money was great so they said yes. "The lyrics were something about when you're drinking in the sun, Sunkist is the one," says Sumner, laughing. "I was like, '[ ****** ] hell, I can't sing that.' So Hooky wrote down £100,000 on a piece of paper and put it on the mixing desk and said: 'Try singing it now.' So I sang it, and then Rob came out of hospital and was like, 'What have you stupid bastards been doing while I've been in hospital?' and put the kibosh on it straight away."




They don't seem fond of Hook nowadays.

Quote:

To boil it down to its basic elements, if someone's horrible a lot of the time, you're not sad when they're gone, you're glad.




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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Peter Hook launches music industry degree new [Re: Theremax]
      #1010535 - 28/09/12 09:49 AM
Hooky interview

New interview with Mr Hook.

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http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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