Hey Glyn, thanks for the reply. I was aware of the 32 bit ram limitation, I should have mentioned that. I run XP pro 32 bit on my current laptop music pc. However I am about to build a new i7 PC and would like to use more than 4gb ram.

A friend who is a lot more up on these things says I should stick to 32 bit or lose the use of some of my plugins. I don't know which plugins do and do work on 64 bit systems. I understand that the Waves set is one that isn't compliant, would you (or anyone else out there) happen to know which others aren't?

I have considered installing Windows 7 64 bit on this new machine but don't know of anyone that has tried it out. Have you heard any commentary on this OS?

Cheers
Luker

Quote Lukertweek:

---

A friend who is a lot more up on these things says I should stick to 32 bit or lose the use of some of my plugins. I don't know which plugins do and do work on 64 bit systems.

---

I can't comment on Windows 7 but the only plug in I could not get to install on my 64 bit Vista was the old GMedia M-Tron. I upgraded to M-Tron Pro which works fine.

I am still running Sonar 8.3 32 Bit, which limits you to 4GB for the host and all the plugins, you are ahead of a 32 bit system however as other processes will use their own memory locations. I have not had any problems with this and all the plugins work.

The real issues, and advantages, start if you want to use a 64 bit host giving you access to all the RAM.

I have the following plugins working.

M-Tron Pro, MiniMonsta, B4II, EZDrummer, Kitcore Delux, Realstrat, Kontact Player 3.5, Kore Player, Independece Free, Protius VX, Realstrat,RCG Audio Triangle, Kong Audio Mini Dizi and Mini Erhu, Amplitude Duo, Guitar Rig 3 XE, all the stuff bundled with Sonar 8 PE, plus several freeware effects and magazine cover disk versions etc.

I will try 64 bit Sonar again when I upgrade to Sonar 8.5 as they have made a number of improvments to their Bitbridge and also have support for third party JBridge if require(it's needed for Toontrack products for sure). A bitbridge is an application that allows the use of 32 bit plugins in a 64 bit host. I beleive Cubase has a similar application called VST Bridge.

Interesting to know that 32 bit apps run in a 64 bit environment. And the "bridge" apps too, didn't know about them.

I think what I will do is have a dual boot at first. Set up a good reliable 32 bit OS using win XP so I have a system I can work with 100% and then also try a 64 bit system using windows 7 and just see how I get on.

Will be sure to report my findings here for the benefit of others. Thanks for discourse Glyn. Much appreciated.

Hello all,

On Martin Walker's advice, I've decided to go for a Core i7 920 (2.66GHz) processor. I can't face building it myself so I'm looking for a good sober price for a PC:

*Purely for audio (running 64-bit and 32-bit OS).
*Quiet
*No software, (I have 64-bit and 32-bit XP Home eds)
*No monitor, mouse, or keyboard
*No soundcard (have Audio interface)
*Graphics card spec necessary for music apps only (no gaming)

I found the following offer, with a 1TB hard-drive it's £831.99:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-030-OE

Any Good?

Would love to know any good suggestions to buy.

Thanks in advance

I picked my parts from cclonline and got them to build it for £50 I usually build myself but really couldn't be bothered this time as the build was so cheap and gaurenteed. I have installed xp32 and have win 7 which I oredered a few months ago from amazon for £44 ready to install. I am waiting for new n12 drivers first though as I used the win 7 RC and the drivers didn't work well and there are reports they still don't on the release version. A few weeks I have been advised for new drivers. We shall see!!

I'm sorry to bother anyone, but I've been saving up for a while and don't want to get ripped off. I'd be very grateful if you could quickly check over this spec before I buy it. I need the PC just for Audio, recording up to (rarely) 6 tracks at once in Nuendo (with plugins), OR (at other times) using Kontakt instruments (and plugins):

Case..... Coolmaster Elite 335

Graphics Card..... ATI Radeon HD4850 512MB

Hard Drive..... Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM 1TB

Processor..... Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz D0 Overclocked to 3.40GHz!

Memory..... Corsair XMS3 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 (1600MHz) Tri-Channel

Motherboard..... Gigabyte EX58-UD3R Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard

Power Supply..... Corsair TX 650W ATX2.2 SLI Compliant PSU

Processor Cooler..... Akasa AK-967 Nero Direct Contact Heatpipe CPU Cooler + Arctic Silver 5 heatsink compound professionally hand installed by our technicians

Sound Card..... (I have prof Firewire Audio interface but this PC comes with 7.1 High Definition OnBoard Sound Card which might be useful to me for surround playback)

Optical Drive..... (not that important to me but includes LG GH22NS30 22x DVD±RW SATA Dual Layer ReWriter)

Warranty..... 1 Year Onsite Collect & Return Warranty

(No OS or software required)

£831.99 inc VAT
(£723.47 ex VAT)

Thank you

Jim

It seems I can build this myself for £570 but what is this:

"Arctic Silver 5 heatsink compound professionally hand installed by our technicians"?

Also, when you build yourself, I suppose you have warranty on all the individual components?

I don't know whether to hand over £830 or build it myself for £570-600. I've put componants into a PC before and I'm not clumsy. I do have a friend who builds them but lives miles away.

Is copying and existing PC a good idea for a first time build?

AAaaahhh!

First off I never have and never will buy a computer ready built.

Quote JimAllan:

---

It seems I can build this myself for £570 but what is this:

"Arctic Silver 5 heatsink compound professionally hand installed by our technicians"?

---

Thats thermal paste. You pop it onto your CPU and CPU heatsink and reduces thermal the resistance which in turn increases thermal efficiency of the CPU heatsink.

Quote JimAllan:

---

Also, when you build yourself, I suppose you have warranty on all the individual components?

---

Yes. It's your own personal warranty that you put it together and no one else did. But should any components fail have the receipts, boxes and warranty cards. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to install a Motherboard, CPU, Thermal compound/paste/whatever, CPU heatsink, RAM, PSU, Graphics Card, DVD drive, Hard Drives into a metal case. You just have to have a little common sense.

Quote JimAllan:

---

I don't know whether to hand over £830 or build it myself for £570-600. I've put componants into a PC before and I'm not clumsy. I do have a friend who builds them but lives miles away.

---

If you want to do it and your confident you can then go ahead. It's easy!

Quote JimAllan:

---

Is copying and existing PC a good idea for a first time build?

---

I upgraded my set up a month ago. I used the GA-EX58-UD5, the Core i7 920 CPU and 3GB Corsair Dominator, similar components in the Scan DAW computer. It's ok. I spent just over £650 for the parts and get the same performance. Go buy the Scan DAW computer and you'll need £1200!

Cheers!

Has anyone had any experience of this watercooling system:

Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz
+
Coolit Systems Domino A.L.C Watercooling System Bundle [BX80601920]

=£256.23 inc VAT from:

]http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-003-IN&tool=5 ]

Any point to it here in the cold north UK?

Does it mean there's no need for a CPU fan or heatsink compound?

Also, what is this "D0 stepping"? Is it only available on i7s from 'Overclockers.couk? Is the advantage of an offer for i7 overclocked to 3.40GHz, because the warranty is valid despite the overclocking?

Quote JimAllan:

---

Has anyone had any experience of this watercooling system:

Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz
+
Coolit Systems Domino A.L.C Watercooling System Bundle [BX80601920]

=£256.23 inc VAT from:

]http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-003-IN&tool=5 ]

---

Don't bother with 'that' water cooling kit. If you want to water cool then buy the individual parts separately to suit your set up and overclock goal. You'll find yourself spending more than £250 on the cooling kit itself but it will be much better than that one. An i7 920 @ 3.4Ghz is easily done with a decent after market air cooler. Consider water cooling if you want to take the i7 920 beyond 4Ghz.

Quote JimAllan:

---

Any point to it here in the cold north UK?

---

Even more so i'd say. The lower the ambient temperature the lower the water temperature and the cooler the CPU. A watercoolers dream is to have as cold temps as possible moving through the radiators to cool the water temperature.

Quote JimAllan:

---

Does it mean there's no need for a CPU fan or heatsink compound?

---

You wouldn't use a heatsink and fan. You'd need a CPU water block and you still need to use the heatsink compound. Lap the CPU water block and the CPU heat spreader for perfect flat bases and you increase the thermal transfer characteristics.

Quote JimAllan:

---

Also, what is this "D0 stepping"? Is it only available on i7s from 'Overclockers.couk? Is the advantage of an offer for i7 overclocked to 3.40GHz, because the warranty is valid despite the overclocking?

---

You get C0 and D0 stepping i7's and from what i've read the D0 stepping CPU's overclock with less volts and therefore less heat output at extreme overclocks. And you won't be able to buy a pre-overclocked CPU. You can buy a computer thats pre-overclocked. I'm not sure about overclocking voiding warranties.

The whole water cooling thing is a great hobby and is fun but it's not really a set up an go thing. There's maintenance involved too. And forget the CPU and cooler pack you mentioned. Consider the CPU on its own is £200 you will need to spend more than that again for a nice water-cooling rig. And as I said consider it only if your intention is to take the i7 920 CPU beyond 4Ghz otherwise get a nice after-market cooler.

Thanks! Sorry for all the posts (delete if necessary).

I've come to realise that building a system has many benefits, mainly cost and warranty. The built system for £830 only had a 1-year warranty for the whole machine, but buying seperates I at least get a processor with 3-year warranty and the memory with Limited Lifetime Warranty (valid up to 5 years after product manufacure is discontinued). Not sure about the motherboard warranty.

I based this spec proposal on the built PC for £830 with a cheaper graphics card and no soundcard or Optical drive:
-----------

Coolermaster Elite 335 (has washable filter) ...[£29.66 inc VAT @scan.co.uk]

Hard Drive..... Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM 1TB ...[£58.54 Inc VAT @ scan.co.uk]

Processor..... Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz .......£208.35 + 3 years warranty @scan.co.uk)

Processor Cooler..... Akasa AK-967 Nero Direct Contact Heatpipe CPU Cooler (31.4 dB at 500RPM to 39.3 dBA at 1500RPM (default) ...[£24.13 Inc VAT @scan.co.uk] + Arctic Silver 5 heatsink compound ...[about £4 from ebay]

Memory..... Corsair XMS3 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 (1600MHz) Tri-Channel ...[£105.04 inc VAT + Limited Lifetime Warranty* @www.shop.bt.com]

Motherboard..... Gigabyte EX58-UD3R Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard ...[£132.87 Inc VAT @www.excelitservices.co.uk) OR £133.98 @www.awd-it.co.uk]

Graphics Card..... 512 MB nVidia GeForce 9400 GT PCI-Express VGA Card ...[£36.79]

Power Supply..... Corsair TX 650W ATX2.2 SLI Compliant PSU ...[£86.24 inc VAT @www.novatech.co.uk]

(Already have Audio Interface, software, Optical Drive, OS, monitor and extras)

Total = £685.62.

With postage, I'm hoping it will still come to less than £710. I may get it cheaper yet by finding parts on ...ebay

(I have to remember not to get to precious about all this computer lark. Today's supercomputer is tomorrow's ZX Spectrum. Hopefully I'll get 4 or 5 years of use before it's slowing me down unnecessarily. Hopefully next time, huge eye-friendly 3D monitors/projectors will end the time wasted on switching between screen windows.)
-----------

Yea all looks good.

I'd go for a bigger case. Midi or full tower. It's just so much better working inside a bigger case and future upgrades ain't so much a nightmare. The heatsink is fine. If you overclock then spend double that on a better heatsink.

Apart from that it's a great machine that will give you lots of resources to work with.

Finally able to add to this thread!
Thanks to everyone that posted... got a lot of info to base my new build on. Very happy with it so far.

Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5
i7-920
Nvidia 8800GTX (For non music related activities)
Focusrite Saffire Pro 26

Paul.

Yippeeeeee..I been waiting to add to this thread for the past year

Having studied this thread, forum and MW's articles in SOS I finally went ahead and built my own i7 DAW over Christmas and used it in anger for the first time today. After my previous P4 machine, this is a real joy - a dedicated DAW too!

It was built to a spec, not to a price.


Case..... Chieftec UNI case LBX-02B-B-SL fitted with AcoustiPack ULTIMATE sound damping kit

Case cooling 1x120mm Noctua NF P12 fan and 3x 90mm Noctua NF B9 fan

Power Supply..... E2CS X-Strike 600W Ultra-Quiet PSU Manual/Auto

Monitor Dell SP2309W

Keyboard & Mouse Wireless Logitech Duo

Motherboard..... Gigabyte EX58-UD5 Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard

Processor..... Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz

Processor Cooler..... Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 Dual Fan CPU Cooler

Memory..... 6GB kit (2GBx3), Ballistix Tracer 240-pin DIMM (with LEDs) Part #: BL3KIT25664TB1608 • DDR3 PC3-12800 • Tri-Channel

Hard Drive..... 2x Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM 500G E.S. (7200.11) fitted into Scythe Quiet Drive Caddies

Graphics Card..... Sapphire HD5770 1GB VAPOR-X Graphics Card

Sound Card..... M-Audio Delta 66+ omni

Optical Drive..... LiteOn IHAS324-32 24x DVD±R, 8x DVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RW x6, DVD-RAM x12, SATA, Black,

BIOS....F7

O/S....Win XP sp3, 32 Bit – will upgrade to Win 7 later

DAW Software....Sonar PE 8.5.2

Currently running DPC on average of around 11µs with an occsional peak of 112µs. I get this result by disabling the Gigabyte GBB386x SCSI & RAID Controler as well as the Texas Inst. IE1394 host controler. Both of these cause peaks in my DPC of 4000µs.

Its just awesome to be able to instantly load multiple VSTi's and play them from my USB controler without damn dropouts, glitches and freezing.

My thanks to MW, Pete Kaine (I bought all the gear I could from Scan because I have been so impressed with the help he gives on this forum)and of course, to SOS.

As this was my first build ,i've spent a full month -october- doing my research and reading as much about the subject as possible.(Endless hours spent reading articles,tests here on soundonsound,than on overclockersonline.net, silentpcreview.com,PAQ's forums etc...)I've finished my build project in late november so i've got nearly two month of testing behind me.After this two month testing period i can comfortably say that this machine is in a different league compared to my old one so obviously i'm very happy about it.
Building a great music PC is simple if someone else has already done the research:just copy a great well tested music PC.The difficult part is to come up with a PC system that fits your budget.My budget was 900 pounds (Monitor included).
Early on i've decided that the basis of my pc will be intel's i7 920 on a gigabyte ex58 motherboard.
I've chosen Scan computers 3XS SA-i7 as my reference music PC for my build .I decided to copy the elements that are essential for me and save some money where it's possible without too much sacrifice.So here is a detailed list with exact prices:
1.Processor: used intel i7 920 - 132 pound / ebay
2.Motherboard: new GaEX58-UD5 - 192 pound / scan
3.Case/PSU: new Coolermaster Sileo 500with inbuilt 500W PSU -89 pound /ebuyer(it's funny that the new scan music pc's are built in sileo 500 houses.At the time of my build they were using silverstone cases.)
4.Processor cooler: new Prolima Megahelms - 40 pound / scan
5.RAM: new Corsair 3x2GB DDR31600MHz - 102 pound / scan
6.Video Card: new 512MB Gainward 9400GT -35 pound / scan
7.Hard Drive 1: new 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 32MB- 57pound /scan
8.Hard Drive 2: new 500GB 32MB Seagate- 80 pound / scan
9.Optical Drive: new Sony AD-7240S: 17pound / scan
10.new Akasa 3.5" multi memory card reader: 7pound / scan
11.Monitor: used LG W2452TX 24" - 100pound / gumtree
12.Mouse/Keyboard :Advent aluminium- 28pound /a PC shop in France
TOTAL: 879pound
I was prepared to buy a new PSU if this 500W wasn't juicy enough but no problems at all yet.(There is a great article on this soundonsound PC forum about how much power is really needed by a pc PSU.You can even find links to power usage calculator sites.)
I don't even use a dedicated ventillator on the CPU.The two inbuilt ventilators do a great job on their own.
I use Windows7.Sonar 8.5 in 64bit mode is my main sequencer.I use EDIROL UA-101 soundcard.
Finally i'm very thankful for Scan computers for giving a detailed list of parts included in their audio computers.
Thanks to everyone here on the SOS forums -especially Martin Walker- for giving great deal of help on the subject with insightful articels and posts.I have to repeat Paul881:
My thanks to MW, Pete Kaine (I bought as much gear as I could from Scan because I have been so impressed with the help he gives on this forum) and of course, to SOS.

Thanks guys - when you've been slogging away for years writing stuff, it sometimes makes all the difference to know that it's been of practical benefit to SOS readers


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic

Cool, well I just did a basic 3-track live run through of my new build and so far everything seems to be working just nicely. It was just my roommate singing and playing his guitar through an amp and Leslie. Sounded very nice.

Motherboard/chipset: Gigabyte X58-UD5
Processor: i7 920 2.66Ghz
Graphics card: nVidia 9400 GT 512MB
Audio interface: Motu 828 mk3

I was running Reaper 3.2 on Windows 7 Pro with 6G of RAM. CPU meter registered under 1%.

So far so good. Will post a pic in the DPC Latency checker thread tonight. Thanks a lot to Pete Kaine and MW all the contributors on this thread for giving me a resource for some of the smaller, yet finer details, including case, PSU, and CPU fan recommendations.

--------------------
Fostex 812 Mixer -> MOTU 828 mk3 -> MacBook: C2D, 2.4Ghz, 4G RAM, OSX 10.6 || i7 920, 2.66Ghz, 6G RAM, Win 7 Pro -> Reaper v3.6

January '09 I built my new i7 system and haven't looked back.
Asus P6T Deluxe MB.
Intel Core i7 940 running at stock speed.
6 GB OCZ RAM running at 1600MHz.
Using onboard sound for now since SoundBlaster doesn't seem to realize that a lot of people have moved to 64 bit systems and haven't released any drivers for my Audigy soundcard. Plan on updating the sound sometime soon.
Originally had a 1GB ATI HD4870 video card but have since upgraded to an ATI 1 GB HD5850 video card as I needed the other card to run HDMI on my bedroom computer. Must say I'm very impressed with this video card.
Coolermaster 850W PS, quiet and absolutely capable of running this machine.
3 1TB WD Caviar drives in IDE mode. I now have 8 of these drives in computers scattered around the house and have had zero problems with them. I had one Seagate 1TB drive in this machine when I originally built it. Lasted 3 months before it "bricked" on me. Seagate RMA'd me a REBUILT HDD, not a new one as I expected. They also wouldn't provide any data recovery for me even though they knew there were problems with these drives (of course I'd already bought it before finding this out). No more Seagates for me, WD drives have proven 100% reliable in every computer I've used them in. Avoid Seagate like the plague. Luckily I had most of my data backed up and didn't lose anything of real importance but still annoying as hell.
Lite-On 22x DVD burner (40$ at WallyWorld, couldn't pass it up!).
26" Asus 1920 X 1200 monitor that I just love.
Vista 64 bit OS dual boot with XP 32 bit (for some legacy hardware and software that just won't work under Vista). Didn't like Vista at first but has kinda grown on me. I have three computers running Windows 7 64 bit all running on older hardware and they just seem snappier than Vista. Might be in my head.
So far the machine (other than the Seagate drive) has proven completely stable and reliable. Big upgrade from my old 2.8GHz P4. I'm not really an Intel fan boy but right now the i7 is the big dog on the block. I guess I'm saying, go ahead and build the i7 machine of your dreams, you won't be sorry.

think I have settles on my specs although it is pushing the budget:

Case: NZXT HUSH Mid Tower Black (Mid Tower)
Power Supply Upgrade: Cyberpower 700 Watts Power Supplies (SLI / CrossFire Ready Quad Rail Power Supply *** Not Recommended for Overclocking***)
CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel i7 920 @ 2.66GHz 8 MB cache LGA1366 ***Overclockable XXX***
Cooling Fan: INTEL LGA1366 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R X58 2 Way Crossfire/SLI DDR3
Memory: 6GB (3x2GB) PC10666 DDR3/1333mhz Triple Channel Memory (G.SKILL NQ Series w/Heat Spreader ***Overclockable XXX***)
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 4350 PCI-E x16 256 MB Video Card
Monitor & LCD: NONE
Hard Drive: Single Hard Drive 320GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
Data Hard Drive: Single Hard Drive (500GB Samsung Spinpoint F3 SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive)
Hard Drive Cooler: None
Optical Drive: Sony Optiarc 22X DVDR/RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (Black Color)
Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
Network: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
USB Port: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
USB Portable Drive: NONE
Floppy: NONE
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® 7 Home Premium (64-bit Edition)
WARRANTY SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT


Coming in at about 850, any criticism would be really helpful, first time spec'ing a pc purely for music production. Could i dual boot the 1st hd for a net and general office stuff? and would that keep the production partition fast and clean for cubase? will be running a Saffire through firewire and legit software.

Edited by ossuss (07/02/10 07:59 PM)

I just got the following bundle from Overclockers:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-043-OE&groupid =43&catid=339&subcat=

Consisting of:

Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz overclocked @ 4.00GHz!
Asus P6TD Deluxe Intel X58 (Socket 1366) DDR3 Motherboard
Corsair XMS3 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 (1600MHz) Tri-Channel (TR3X6G1600C9)
Titan TTC-NK85TZ Fenrir CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/LGA775/LGA1366)

To this I added

1TB Hitachi Ultrastar HD
Sapphire Radeon HD5770 Graphics Card
Tagan 480W PSU from my last build
Antec case form my last build
Native Instruments Kore 1 controller/audio interface
Novation SL37 Controller Keyboard
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

The HD I chose because of its apparently improved reliability and 5 year warranty. The GFX card wasn't strictly necessary, but with a PC this powerful I'd like to be able to play the occasional game. I already had a very good case (P190 I think?) with excellent cooling and sound insulation, as well as a 480W PSU, so the total for the componants was a shade under £900. Not bad for a 4GHz i7!!

When I first installed windows and before adding any hardware drivers, DPC latency registered at a steady 55us. I then installed all the motherboard's hardware drivers, GFX drivers, Asus V Tweak (which allows motherboard overclocking tweaks from windows) and a USB D Link wifi adapter. I figured the last two items would be asking for trouble, but now the DPC latency seems stable at 80-90uS with no optimisations made or drivers disabled. Not super low perhaps, but perfectly usable.

The huge titan cooler was very noisey on first assembly, but this turned out to be because overclockers had disabled Q-quiet fan control in the BIOS, fixing the large 120mm fan at full speed. Enabling the feature and setting it to standard operation results in the fan being almost inaudible. With the rear 120mm case fan set to medium the machine emits a gentle whir. Enough to let you know it's on but certainly not obtrusive and much quieter than my previous PC in the same case, which was an athlon x64x2 dual core 4400, not overclocked and with AMD stock cooler! CPU temp when idle is 40 degrees c> I've not had the chance to give the system a really punishing stress test yet, but if it runs too hot under load I figure I'll jsut dial back the CPU BCLK frequency a bit.

First impressions are very positive. Loading a session which caused my old Core2Duo 2.5GHz Macbook Pro to break down in tears registered about 25-30% CPU with no glitches at 8ms output latency. Only issue I have so far is that the double width Saffire graphics card blocks the PCI slots, but forutnately I'm using a USB audio interface anyway.

I'll report back again when I've had the chance to give the system a more thorough test

Edited by Domsmart (08/02/10 08:06 PM)

I might buy this pre-Assembled i7 bundle:

'Gladiator Extreme Gaming Bundle' -pre-Assembled and Overclocked by our the Gladiator PC Team, this Overclocked Bundle takes the i7 920 from its standard speed of 2.66GHZ to an unbelievable 4.0GHZ!!! Ideal for Gamers and Enthusiasts alike:

*Cpu model: i7 920 D0 Stepping SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz (Nehalem)Processor,

*Cpu speed: 4.0Ghz

*Motherboard model: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 Intel X58 PCI-Express DDR3

*Memory: Patriot 6GB "Viper" 1600Mhz DDR3

*Cooler: Thermalright VenomousX

*Warranty: 1 Year

*Price: £646.24 inc.VAT + Free Delivery

I've lost touch a bit with prices, is this is any good (taking into account free delivery)??? Does overclocking compromise reliability?

...Oh and it has an 'Akasa Amber 120mm fan'.

This does look interesting. I've put a message on the Aria forum asking further about the hardware that these bundles come with. It's probably not worth it without an OS, HDD, graphics card and so on.

I got myself the following and am very pleased so far - a vast improvement on my Core2 Duo E6420 machine, especially when it comes to doing mixes with large track-counts and numerous plug-ins.

CPU Intel Core i7-930
Motherboard Asus P6T SE
Graphics HIS HD 5670
CASE Lancool PC-K62
POWER CoolerMaster Silent Pro M700
MEMORY Kingston DDR3 1333 3x2GB (6GB)
HD 1 Intel X25-M 80GB (SSD)
HD 2 WD Caviar Green 640GB

I'm running Windows 7 (32bit for now), Sonar 8.5, Live 8, Reason 4.

--------------------
Sound Jeweler http://moshang.net

Motherboard: ASUS P6X58D (Intel X58)
CPU: Intel Core i7 930
Memory: 12GB
Graphics: Radeon HD 5850 1GB (using eyefinity)
Audio Interface: HDSPe AIO
DSP Cards: UAD 1, Powercore FW
OS: Win 7 64-bit
Drives: SSD: Corsair P256 and P128, Mechanical: Seagate 2TB 7200rpm
Monitors: 30" HP LP 3065 and 2x 21" Samsung 213T

A modern i7 system is staggeringly powerful and fast. Running a full project's worth of VSTi and VST plugins barely places a load on it. The speed of loading giant rompler patches (i.e. spectrasonics) from SSD is delightful too. My previous machine was overclocked AMD X2 4600 (Nforce3) running XP SP3, which I've had for 5 years (upgraded cpu and disk along the way). The sheer computational power of the i7 is staggering, while my machine was built with overclocking in mind, I've yet to need to. I'm running the 32 bit version of cubase since my plugins are 32 bit and it's easier that way. This is still an improvement because under WOW64 the cubase process is allowed to grow to 4GB instead of being limited to 2GB under Win XP.

The only fly in the ointment is that I have both a Steinberg Midex 8 and Houston controller - in some bizzare contractual dealing Steinberg had with the hardware OEMs (detailed on the cubase forum), there will never be 64 bit drivers for these devices, so I have a significant amount of hardware that just became obsolete. Furthermore, there's no replacement for the LTB accurate timing feature to drive my external midi gear. I previously used the midex to test the speed of the RME HDSP card in my old PC (older PCI version) and found the timing to be as good as the Midex (there was an apparent bug when it received controller data though, doubling each controller data event). I also tested an Edirol USB interface I have and the midi timing there was ghastly.

So for now I'm making do with using the RME midi i/o's on the HDSPe AIO and mostly using VSTi's. I would say I'm swearing off Steinberg hardware for life but with one exception: if they or anyone else released a new Midi interface tomorrow with LTB I'd buy it.

Off topic suggestion for the mag: I'd really like to see SOS establish a standard test where midi i/o latency is reported for all midi equipped computer interfaces. It would not only be informative, but serve to encourage those manufacturers not currently doing a good job to do better. Midi is such a slow protocol in comparison to everything else in a modern PC, there's really no excuse for latency or mis-timing, yet few seems to get it right.

Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower,
CPU: Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz,
MoBo: ASUS P7P55D-E LX LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0,
GFX: ASUS ENGT240 Silent/DI/1GD3 GeForce GT 240 1GB DDR3,
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws 4GB DDR3 DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800),
CPU HS: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 120mm SSO CPU Cooler,
PSU: SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W ATX12V V2.3
Data-HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5",
OS-HDD: WD Caviar Blue 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
ODD: Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner AD-7261S-0B LightScribe,
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit.

Running Cubase 4.5.2 X64 and X32 with URS, Nomad Factory, NI,
EWQL Goliath, Arturia, Antares and few other bundles with TC
Impakt Twin. No problems at all so far, running same projects
in both, X64 and X32 with JBridge (which is the greates thing).
Cubase 4.5.2 X32 runs way more faster and stable then X64 and
also X64 plugins JBridged over to X32 are working perfekt.
I am working on Big Audio projects and Disk Monitor is still
down to zero, never went up, Asio goes to 45-60 deppending on
what i am using at the moment. The way it is now it is wayy faster
then my Mac PPC G5 Dual 2.7 GHZ and it is also a very stable.
Even Steinberg advises using Cubase X32 on a X64 OS. It can still
detect 4GB of RAM and it would run more stable and faster.

...just my two cents...

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Reality is a Condition due to lack of Weed!

Hi all, new to the forums here but definately not new to making music. I'm running the following system which I built myself:

Intel Core i7 930
4GB RAM (FAST)
1TB HDD (MECHANICAL)
M AUDIO Delta 10/10 LT SOUNDCARD

Just want to say that I upgraded recently from a core2duo system with a clock speed speed of like 2.1GHZ or something running cubase sx3 32bit and now have the i7 930 running on Cubase 5 64bit. To be honest there isn't that much of a difference, it's a little faster but nothing to get too excited about. All those people claiming to be running 20 high power vst instruments simultaneously because of their i7 processor aren't really speaking the truth. If you have a core2duo system with a powerfull soundcard you will get better performance than an i7 running a more average soundcard. It's a shame that graphics cards have been advanced so much in the past decade or so whereas sound cards seem to have stagnated, if you want a powerfull sound card think £1000+ whereas more advanced technology in the form of GPU's running several pipelines of parrallel processing at ridiculously fast speeds packed full of RAM can be picked up for £100-£200. The sound card is more important than the processor with all other things being equal.

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-If it's not broke, don't fix it!

Quote OldSchoolProducer:

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Just want to say that I upgraded recently from a core2duo system with a clock speed speed of like 2.1GHZ or something running cubase sx3 32bit and now have the i7 930 running on Cubase 5 64bit. To be honest there isn't that much of a difference, it's a little faster but nothing to get too excited about. All those people claiming to be running 20 high power vst instruments simultaneously because of their i7 processor aren't really speaking the truth. If you have a core2duo system with a powerfull soundcard you will get better performance than an i7 running a more average soundcard.

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Hi OldSchoolProducer, and welcome to the SOS Forums!

I'm glad you're pleased with your new i7 930 system, but it's rather misleading to say that it's only a little faster than a Core 2 Duo system

Four cores running at 2.8GHz will stomp on any Core 2 Duo with two cores running at a lower rate, as my various SOS PC reviews prove. Have a look at my recent performance chart in this review:

www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar10/articles/darcultimatele.htm

As you can see from the other systems tested thus far I managed to run over three times as many compressor plug-ins on the Core i7 920 2.66GHz machine as I could on the Dual-Core E6600 2.4GHz processor.

As for soundcards offering radically different performance, this is sadly a fallacy - those with better written drivers may run significantly more plug-ins with low buffer sizes than others, but one you get to a latency of 6mS or so you are unlikely to notice any difference in performance (assuming no incompatibilities due to chipset and so on).


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Hey Martin thanks for the welcome,

Seems you know your stuff... I am talking from experience though, I was using a core 2 duo system up until like 2 months ago and could run about 10 instances of cakewalk' Z3TA+ at a low latency with an M Audio Delta 10/10 LT (2ms I think)when I first upgraded I kept the system the same except for the faster memory (DDR 3 running at 1800mhz upgraded from DDR2 running at 1066Mhz and both good Corsair memory not generic) and processor (I7 930 from Core2Duo 2.1Ghz or something 2MB cache version) and new motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Rev 2. So according to what I've heared you would expect me to get maybe 16 Z3TA instances running at once with an average midi track but its more like 11 or 12 (just two or so more than my old system). At first I suspected that the version of cubase (SX3 god knows what build can't remember) couldn't handle multiple cores properly although many people said it could so I upgraded to cubase 5 x64 and still didn't get any better results. Would genuinely like some advice if you know why my system isn't performing that much better than before upgrade like you say it should. P.S i'm not saying things don't run faster it's just not even close to the increase I expected.

The reason I said the soundcard makes the big difference incidently is because my M audio delta 10/10 LT broke down recently (my own fault) and so i'm now using an EMU 0404 soundcard. Latency is good (2ms) but I start reaching load at like 4 instances of Z3TA (ridiculous). Thats why I know the soundcard makes a difference. The HD2 PCIe Pro Tools 8 HD Core System at over £5000 would definately not perform the same as any other music making soundcard so i'm guessing the processors on the soundcard obviously make a difference and looking at the difference between my M audio delta 10/10 LT and EMU 0404 I'm yet to be convinced this is a fallacy, please elaborate if you have the time.

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-If it's not broke, don't fix it!

Edited by OldSchoolProducer (10/08/10 09:30 PM)

Quote OldSchoolProducer:

---

The reason I said the soundcard makes the big difference incidently is because my M audio delta 10/10 LT broke down recently (my own fault) and so i'm now using an EMU 0404 soundcard. Latency is good (2ms) but I start reaching load at like 4 instances of Z3TA (ridiculous). Thats why I know the soundcard makes a difference. The HD2 PCIe Pro Tools 8 HD Core System at over £5000 would definately not perform the same as any other music making soundcard so i'm guessing the processors on the soundcard obviously make a difference and looking at the difference between my M audio delta 10/10 LT and EMU 0404 I'm yet to be convinced this is a fallacy, please elaborate if you have the time.

---

THis could be down to driver efficiency and choice of buffer size.

As I mentioned above, most audio interfaces offer similar performance once you increase buffer size of 256 samples or above, but what sorts out the good from the bad is performance with smaller buffer sizes, such as your 2mS example (around 64 samples at 44.1kHz)

The performance of the better ones doesn't drop off as fast, but other things are involved in this equation, in particular the CPU type.

Intel's Core i3/5/7 range has provided one of the best low latency performances seen so far.


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Thanks for the reply Martin, going to see if EMU has any updated drivers and try to play around with the settings a bit more. I tend to notice latencies alot, and I don't like to necessarily quantize things all the time so still would like a relatively low latency, might have to buy a new card if it doesn't deliver.

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-If it's not broke, don't fix it!

My pleasure - good luck!


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

I have been using my new system for about two weeks. I bought it pre-built from ADK in Kentucky. It arrived tweaked for audio, with my apps pre-loaded, and with Paragon backup software. This vendor seems very competent.

Core i7: 4 PCIex16, 2PCIe, 1PCI, up to 24Gig DDR3 1600, TI Firewire, USB3, Sata 6 motherboard (Gigabyte mobo).
Core i7 930 2.8GHz Quad Core.
Muskin - 2Gig DDR3 1600 CL8 memory.
Seagate 500G 32Meg Sata II Perpendicular (three drives) and a hot swap bay (Icy Dock Internal Screwless SATA II DRive bay).
ATI - HD 4550 Dual head fanless 512MB DVI/HDMI/VGA output video card.
Midisport 1x1 USB Midi Interface
Windows 7 64, Cubase 64, Komplete 6 VSTs, Melodyne Editor (this app is a game changer, assuming it works as advertised).
Yamaha MR816X Audio Interface w/o Effects (The most logical interface for a home Cubase user).
I run it at 64 sample latency. Th DI sounds great. Haven't yet tried a mic through it. I am ultra phobic about latency; that is the main reason I bought the MR816x, which is symbiotic with Cubase. Seems to sound better than my RME DIGI 96/8 PAD. I am impressed with the quality of sound at low monitoring volumes; and all the instruments seem well separated and discernable.

So far the performance of this rig has been quick and transparent.
I have waited 20 years for such a box and atendant software.
My needs are modest in the tracking department, and it should handle any track count, VSTi count, and VST effects count that I am likely to throw at it.

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If it sounds good, then it is good.

Please ALSO speak in laymen's terms:

What is the difference between the Intel Core i5 and Core i7?

Sure, some engineering design differences so i5 is somewhat "slower" than i7 but performs well so i5 is a better value!

I guess this is what you really meant for those of us who do NOT care about the engineering specifics but the ACTUAL testing/performance of the chip!

Really, many of the PC World reviews could be written for those of us NOT in the engineering field!

I5 has two pipes to memory rather than 3.
You can compare various processors with Intel's "compare processors" site.

Here is an example

I compared the i7/920 to a couple of I5's chosen at more or less random. The I5 is a newer processor and runs cooler (and therefore quieter) and at higher clocks than the 920 so you get almost as much bandwidth. (the higher bus speed is what controls that rather than the higher internal clock)

To do random compares, go to the Intel site and search for "compare processors".

Disclaimer: I work for Intel but I am a software guy so I don't have any special insight into processor selection and, in any case, there is no one choice that is best for everyone. I could quote you benchmark numbers (from Tom's hardware perhaps) but unless they match your workloads they are not particularly useful.

These forums dont get used much?

My contribution purchased in 2009 and upgraded to this week and the following specs which runs everything really well even at 128.

EVGA x58SLi(inc firewire)
i7 920 co/c1 (2.66ghz)
12GB DDR3 OCZ 1600mhz Ram
Firewire TI
ATI HD4800 Series
OCZ Vertex2 SSD
WD Raptor 150
RME FF800(Main)/AccessVirus/Mackie1620FW
PAQ Case Xigmatic Heatsink (Peters magic and support)
Win7Ultimatex64


Previous
Pentium 4 3.4ghz, 4gb Corsair 400mhz, ATI9800series, RME Fireface, WD Raptor 74gb, WD Cav250x2

Overall performance for comparison

P4 : Cubase 6 running Kontakt with orchestral and multisamples, 3 Nebula instances = approx 90% Asio

i7 : Cubase 6 Kontakt orchestral, 5 Nebula*, Elephant, and numerous other plugins approx 40-50% Asio
*Nebula does increase latency on play back but then it's a plugin ideally for the mixdown/master stage. Or run it on efficiency like you would any plugin with x1 oversampling rather than 2,4,8 etc.

These are really approximate not science lab stuff

All I can say is, as mentioned, i7s are incredible, deliver what you've been waiting for over the last decade allowing software companies to actually deliver on the boxes promise

Personally recommend 6GB DDR3 with a decent asio audio interface.
12gb If you are really into using large multisamples, orchestral romplers but 6gb is really enough.

SSD drives I would recommend as OS only and have a decent 7200 drive for audio recording/samples. I use the Raptor for audio and in the Paq case the noise is non existant. Often have to check to see that the PCs on...yes it's that quiet without watercooling.

If you really want to be efficient (not that you need to with i7s but can also shave a few ms here and there) have two hard drives with your OS installed or 2 partitions. Personally have the SSD caddied for the DAW and a 2nd drive (7200 WD) for all the internet, MS and applications. Just my approach that tbh keeps the daw very clean.

Peace

Am I right in thinking that the most significant difference between the i7 & i5 is that for the additional CPU/MOBO outlay of say £150 you get 2 extra memory slots thereby upping the capacity from 16 to 24 Gb RAM.

Martin

Bottom line:
You need the following:
1) Intel i-7 960 or go extreme
2) 6-8 gigs ram-min
3) A mobo with xtra PCI-e Slots and Xtra Ram space-nice add
4) The all important GPU-the faster this is, the more "Co-processing" can be done. Good deals on Nvidia GTX 470-480s to be had with 500s out

Good luck. You get exactly what you pay for when it comes to music

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3 Martin Acoustics-HD-28-GPCPA-3 and OOV28

The i7 is ludicrously powerful which is why I also use it on not just my recording computers, but pretty much all of them lol.

I'm a bit of a tech geek though so im always looking for the newest stuff.

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