Not exactly Neil,

Id say that is a specialist circumstance and by no way typical of Farah's senario.

(Also, being ex military myself, most forign bases are UK soil anyhow.)

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote Kolakube:

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Quote:

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"Mo Farah is half-English and half-Somali, so f**king what".

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Reg if you dont care just skip on over to another thread. No need to waste a few momemnts of your life telling us about it.

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Since we are obsessing over fine lines for no good purpose, that is not what I said. I care passionately about the way that my beautiful, complex and interesting country has integrated people with beautiful, complex and interesting backgrounds in such a successful way.

I also find nationalistic horsepoo smells, even on a silver platter.

Reg

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So reg your calling me a racist? Nothing I have said here is racist. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to start accusing me of such things.

To all of thoese of you who think we shouldnt have countries or goups of anykind, do you all route for GB if they are going to win a race? Or are you happy a human wins???? Whats the point of the olympics then??

To take away groups does away with most sports. Whats the point of watching a football match if your not beind one specific team?

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Thing is it does not matter. I dont think the Olympics has ever overplayed the international competitivness - quite the opposite except perhaps during periods of conflict when it just becomes arkward.

If you remove the idea of a country being a convenient way to group athletes, then what happens when that guy who just happens to live down the road becomes the worlds best? Cant we just celebrate that he just happens to live down the road without questioning for how long - or where from or why?

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I think Mo Farah has easily a strong enough connection to Britain to run as part of 'Team GB'.

If, for instance, a Vietnamese refugee who had lived in Australia since of the age of 8 and had citizenship of Australia I would be rather upset if they were forced to compete at sports as part of Team Vietnam if they wanted to represent Australia.

Quote Kolakube:

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So reg your calling me a racist? Nothing I have said here is racist. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to start accusing me of such things.

To all of thoese of you who think we shouldnt have countries or goups of anykind, do you all route for GB if they are going to win a race? Or are you happy a human wins???? Whats the point of the olympics then??

To take away groups does away with most sports. Whats the point of watching a football match if your not beind one specific team?

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No I called you a nationalist. They are entirely different things.

I had in fact assumed by the KolaKube soubriquet, you may well yourself be of Afro-Carribean origin and possessed of a good sense of irony.

That is twice you have put words into my mouth, sir.

Now if you want to start an obviously controversial debate, be prepared for strong opinions.

Now shall we all play nicely?

Reg

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"Or are you happy a human wins???? Whats the point of the olympics then??"

Well the rest of the non-Jamaican world obviously enjoyed the spectacle of seeing simply the worlds fastest man...not you though?

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hi all,

i've only watched the games intermittently and could be wrong but i've seen dozens of athletes who were born elsewhere who now live (and represent) countries of adoption. the US team has people born in Cuba, etc. an ethiopian woman was going to race for sweden (where she now lives) but ethiopia confiscated her passport =:-)

personally i wish they'd get rid of the whole nationality stuff. the former soviet union and its satellites exploded into the 'us v. them' stuff in the 1970s, and the US took it up w/ a vengeance at the 1984 games in los angeles (the most marketed games in history and the only modern games to clear a profit :-(.

athletes are individuals and their success is theirs alone. ban the flags!

d

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"Patsy had the drug tolerance of Keith Richards and the moral rectitude of Brian Jones." - Dr. Walter Bishop, "Fringe"

or let you elect your identity! hahahah

Neil

Quote:

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I think Mo Farah has easily a strong enough connection to Britain to run as part of 'Team GB'.

If, for instance, a Vietnamese refugee who had lived in Australia since of the age of 8 and had citizenship of Australia I would be rather upset if they were forced to compete at sports as part of Team Vietnam if they wanted to represent Australia.

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Yes this is again a fair point. But one I fear opens the floodgates for abuse of wealthy nations robbing poorer nations of top athletes. I mean, how are these poor countries ever to get on there feet if the wealthy pulls all of there best people?

Reg

Quote:

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No I called you a nationalist. They are entirely different things.

I had in fact assumed by the KolaKube soubriquet, you may well yourself be of Afro-Carribean origin and possessed of a good sense of irony.

That is twice you have put words into my mouth, sir.

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Fair enough Reg, I took you the wrong way. No I am white british with a bit of spanish in there.

Quote:

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Now if you want to start an obviously controversial debate, be prepared for strong opinions.

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Yes, thats fair.

Id just hate anyoen to take from this I have anything against Farah himself. I respect him for a fantastic athlete he is. He also comes across very down to earth and not big headed. Id imagine he would be a nice guy to meet at a bus stop and chat too if he had fame or not.

I am simply puttting my point across that where do we draw the line. And as I keep saying whats stopping wealthy nations robbing poorer countries of there stars?

But then as others have said we have Jamica, trained in Birmingham,and Farah himself who doesnt even live in any part of Europe never mind GB.

I can only draw from all of this my own opinion that this all detracts from the nation vs nation compitition the Olympics is supposed to be.

Chaconne

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"Or are you happy a human wins???? Whats the point of the olympics then??"

Well the rest of the non-Jamaican world obviously enjoyed the spectacle of seeing simply the worlds fastest man...not you though?

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I was very happy to see such a poor nation such as Jamacia win and litrally own certain events. It gets real old real quick when the USA wins everything all of the time, to me anyhow.

Dubmann

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athletes are individuals and their success is theirs alone. ban the flags!

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Yes, totally agree, this is what I mean. I could get really into the athletes themselves. But as much as everyone seems to think I came up with the idea of nations the BBC regularly display what country has won what and show ladders and things. Guys, I didnt make it this way. If anything I am pointing out how this system isnt working.

Narcoman

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or let you elect your identity! hahahah

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Can I be the first martian??

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote Kolakube:

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Ok, om not gettting this at all.

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Indeed.

You come on here asking to have something explained to you. You don't like the answer based on fact. So all I can suggest is you pose the same question on the Daily Mail website forum. I'm sure you will ge the answer you want there.

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I'm All Ears.

Quote Kolakube:

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I'm not giving an opinion. You asked a question, I answered it with FACT.

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My answer is also as strong as yours.

If your alowed to swap countries and countries are allowed to hand out passports and then you simply parade as that counties citizen, then it becames much like UK football. IE the richest club wins.

This is not what the olympics is about. In fact it threterns the very foundation of the games that have ran for thousands of years.

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OF course the richest wins! WTF did you think? Do you think GB did so well because we happen to host it? No, the athletes had their lottery funding. Investment into the infrastructure and sporting facilities made sure we hauled an unprecedented amount of medals. USA, China, they always win because of the investment.

Why do you think the Jamaicans are great sprinters? You don't need hi-tech facilities to run and improve your running.

An this whole "for thousands of years" stuff is nonsense. This was the 40th Olympiad of modern times.

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I'm All Ears.

Yes. A distinction need to be made between the Ancient Greek (!!) Olympics and the IOC stuff. they are not at all, in any way, in any sense of the word - the same thing.

I like the olympics - just in case anyone want to know; don't care about the national identity thing but very happy for GB to have made a strong case for themselves - this kind of promo is good for business, investment and the like. Still won't make a direct profit though !!

Hey KolaKube, I will return to the debate shortly.

I am too busy watching two gay men being cycled around with big hats on and both both laughing and crying my tits off with happiness about the '80s.

However the boy band thing is about to give me indigestion.

Reg

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Ken, I really do not like your tone at all.

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Reg, If you like the PSBs I am a huge fan. Got nearly everything they ever made in the 80s.

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

> Ken, I really do not like your tone at all.

He's got a point though...

And it's always been that way. Sorry to invoke Godwin's Law but Germany went from 3 golds (9th in the medal table) in '32 to 33 golds (1st in the medal table) in '36. That's the effect that 3 years of massive investment can have on sport.

Edited by Dishpan (12/08/12 08:31 PM)

Not that I can see.

Not meaning to kick all this off again but your either born here or not.

All I have concluded from this thread is you can be whatever nation you want to be. Just apply for a passport and as I initially said, nation vs nation is open to abuse.

Sure ken thinks its a great idea that you can swap your citizenship out etc but im not in agreement. Also its not so much what he's saying its his delivery methiod.

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote narcoman:

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Still won't make a direct profit though !!

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More like a DIRECT LOSS.

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I'm All Ears.

Quote:

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And it's always been that way. Sorry to invoke Godwin's Law but Germany went from 3 golds (9th in the medal table) in '32 to 33 golds (1st in the medal table) in '36. That's the effect that 3 years of massive investment can have on sport.

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But did they invest in there own athlets born and bred in Germany? Or were some of the gold medalists from other countries?

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote ken long:

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Quote narcoman:

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Still won't make a direct profit though !!

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More like a DIRECT LOSS.

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Of course. But then there is the intangible money. Do you count the £270k brought into my company this year directly because of the Olympics (okay - small fry - but it all counts)? Or the other investments I'm seeing already. Or the income generating assets left over? Or even the tens of millions of contract hire for logistics equipment for the foreign broadcast companies? Or even the huge amount of trailers edited in the UK for just about every narration on Earth? Depends how you look at it.

My studio build in London isn't giving a direct profit - but it most certainly is catalysing many income streams. Long term (even short term) this is having an effect. How much - only time will tell.

Quote Kolakube:

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Quote:

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And it's always been that way. Sorry to invoke Godwin's Law but Germany went from 3 golds (9th in the medal table) in '32 to 33 golds (1st in the medal table) in '36. That's the effect that 3 years of massive investment can have on sport.

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But did they invest in there own athlets born and bred in Germany? Or were some of the gold medalists from other countries?

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That doesn't really matter. Investment in people, and this where I agree with you Kola, is what is important. So for me, it isn't so much a question of whether Mo Farrah is British or not, but rather why the heck is he training and living in the USA at presumably, our expense? Was investment not good enough here? What does one need to improve long distance running?

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I'm All Ears.

I am loving the choice of Elbow as the athletes theme by the way!

I feel like I am home...

Reg

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Quote ken long:

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What does one need to improve long distance running?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Oregon_Project

Quote Neil C:

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Quote ken long:

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What does one need to improve long distance running?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Oregon_Project

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Bollocks

You run! Then you run harder. All that [ ****** ] is marketing and neo-conservatism!

Pardon my language about both dirty words.

Reg

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Quote Neil C:

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Quote ken long:

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What does one need to improve long distance running?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Oregon_Project

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Well, that's slightly worrying. Its just cheating then innit. And the real tragedy is that athletes from poorer countries, as Kola pointed out but for different reasons, are missing out on such training because they can't afford it.

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I'm All Ears.

Page 69 of the pdf

http://www.olympic.org/Documents/olympic_charter_en.pdf

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1. A competitor who is a national of two or more countries at the same time may represent either one of them, as he may elect. However, after having represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships
recognised by the relevant IF, he may not represent another country unless he meets the conditions set forth in paragraph 2 below that apply to persons who have changed their nationality or acquired a new nationality.

2. A competitor who has represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant IF, and who has changed his nationality or acquired a new nationality, may participate
in the Olympic Games to represent his new country provided that at least three years have passed since the competitor last represented his former country. This period may be reduced or even cancelled, with the agreement of the NOCs and IF concerned, by the IOC Executive Board, which takes into account the circumstances of each case.

3. If an associated State, province or overseas department, a country or colony acquires independence, if a country becomes incorporated within another country by reason of a change of border, if a country merges with another country, or if a new NOC is recognised by the IOC, a competitor may continue to represent the country to which
he belongs or belonged. However, he may, if he prefers, elect to represent his country or be entered in the Olympic Games by his new NOC if one exists. This particular choice may be made only once.

77
Olympic Charter
In force as from 8 July 2011

4. Furthermore, in all cases in which a competitor would be eligible to participate in the Olympic Games, either by representing another country than his or by having the choice as to the country which such competitor intends to represent, the IOC Executive Board may take all decisions of a general or individual nature with regard to issues resulting from nationality, citizenship, domicile or residence of any competitor, including the duration of any waiting period.

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Those are the rules and that is all that needs to be said I guess. As mentioned before it isn't like running for President of the USA, the Olympics works under their own rules.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote Kolakube:

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As said, by your grey area logic, why don't the rich contries just buy up all the top runners from the poorer countries and give them a passport.

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That would be a solution... Then we could just appreciate the athlete for who he/she is and the country they technically represented would be irrelevant (as it was only determined by cash). Ya know, a lot like supporting Chelsea, or Man City, Barcelona, all rather pointless as the team with big budgets simply buy up all the talent and win everything. So what are you actually supporting? A name, a history long gone, what? It was supposed to be about your home town and local lads. Doesn't stop you appreciating the individual skill of the player though, does it.

This stuff has been going on for years...Either apply the Nationality rules tightly and in good faith, or simply have a cash-determined free for all flag of convenience. Ya can't blame individuals for doing the best for themselves and chances in life.

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I think all other athletic meetings are individual based rather than country (except the Commonwealth Games). I don't follow the sport, so I'm not 100% sure on that, but I've seen various track meetings on TV which seem to be individuals competing for themselves.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote ken long:

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Why do you think the Jamaicans are great sprinters? You don't need hi-tech facilities to run and improve your running.

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According to Carl Lewis' recent documentary it is because the West Indies was the final port of the slave trade. This was where they dumped the aggressive slaves that nobody would purchase. Which according to the logic on this thread means they're not 'technically' Jamaican. More likely to be Somali immigrants...

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Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Quote Dynamic Mike:

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Quote ken long:

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Why do you think the Jamaicans are great sprinters? You don't need hi-tech facilities to run and improve your running.

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According to Carl Lewis' recent documentary it is because the West Indies was the final port of the slave trade. This was where they dumped the aggressive slaves that nobody would purchase. Which according to the logic on this thread means they're not 'technically' Jamaican. More likely to be Somali immigrants...

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Jamaican slaves came from West Africa, not the East. I think many slave ships went straight to Jamaica. And the Jamaican racial mix isn't simply West Africans. Many black Jamaicans have some white ancestry.
It might seem logical that people who had been selected as fit and strong and then further weeded out as healthy by surviving the conditions of the 'middle passage' might be good sportspeople.
But if Jamaicans took to the pool would they win all the golds?
Jamaicans gave the world a completely distinct popular musical genre - but was that due to special slave skank genetics?

Yes, Bolt, 2 and 3 probably have 'good' genetics for what they do. But so do all the people who are best at their events.

Clearly years of tea and gloomy weather is what lies behind fantastic cyclists.

These athletes (wherever they're from) can run dead fast in a straight-ish line! Amazing. I think schools should do everything they can to encourage it. Bollocks to getting kids to study science to save the planet from imminent ecological disaster. Who cares? But running dead fast? That's something!

(Sorry, I got up wrong.)

I'm struggling to think of a reason why one would not embrace the fact that a talented athlete wanted to identify himself with and compete for your country and was elegible to do so.

Edited by Jim (13/08/12 07:48 PM)

Quote Neil C:

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Many black Jamaicans have some white ancestry.
Jamaicans gave the world a completely distinct popular musical genre - but was that due to special slave skank genetics?

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Nope. It was apparently due to years of tea & gloomy weather

"I don't have prejudice against meself. My father was a white and my mother was black. Them call me half-caste or whatever. Me don't deh pon nobody's side. Me don't deh pon the black man's side nor the white man's side. Me deh pon God's side, the one who create me and cause me to come from black and white."

Rock Steady however could be argued to have strong Latin-American influences.

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Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Quote Dynamic Mike:

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Rock Steady however could be argued to have strong Latin-American influences.

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Indeed various things fed into reggae and each of those things had its own evolution, but reggae and classic dub originated nowhere but Jamaica.

Somaliland is a land of many chiefs but no king. It has been this way for sometime now. It is not a safe place - and to make matters worse, neighbouring countries have been taking advantage.
Wikileaks: US behind Ethiopia invasion in Somalia i'm looking at you! you land grabbing fcuks!!
Sad place is Somaliland - coastline treated like as a chemical/nuke tip by unscrupulous'internationals'. Who wouldnt be a pirate? It's not really a country in the 'normal' sense. No central gov.
More a hell hole.

Edited by Airfix (14/08/12 12:44 AM)

Quote Neil C:

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Many black Jamaicans have some white ancestry.

Jamaicans gave the world a completely distinct popular musical genre -

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Lots of Irish in the mix - that's the connection. 8^D

Unfortunately we can't claim to have contributed to the sprinting.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

KK, I'd suggest that if the internationally recognised top tier of athletic performance was organised around loyalty to favourite supermarkets then the athletes would go, compete and proclaim their pride and undying loyalty to whichever team made it possible for them.

As an ex military person you no doubt will be familiar with the oft repeated idea that no soldier fights for Queen and country, they fight to keep themselves and their mates alive, and to win.

Loyalty to a football team is essentially pointless as Man U Carlos Tevez fans learned over a period of a couple of weeks. The team has no loyalty to the player, the players in return go where the money and the opportunities for success lie.

Man City fans I know are very conflicted that their success has come at the cost of their soul. They are a vanity project for a rich man who could dump them and move the team to China in a week if it made good business sense.

Utd are going the same way with the flotation in NY. Stockport County seem safe from this vandalism for the time being.

Farah runs too good to be Irish but if he takes up Boxing or Blues guitar we'd be glad to have him.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote RegressiveRock:

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Bollocks

You run! Then you run harder.

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Reg, I believe there's a vacancy at the head of the UK Olympic committee. That's just the kind of fresh approach the UK needs to consolidate your recent success. Cheap too.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote shufflebeat:

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Quote RegressiveRock:

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Bollocks

You run! Then you run harder.

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Reg, I believe there's a vacancy at the head of the UK Olympic committee. That's just the kind of fresh approach the UK needs to consolidate your recent success. Cheap too.

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My CV is already in!

Reg

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