Anyone seen the damage first hand?

It seems a rather odd situation from the exterior...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436529

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/earwighoney

right up the road from me. it has spread to Wood Green now. 7 year old girls running out of Curries with 5 X-Box 360s...

keep an eye on Gumtree in the next few days...

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Quote ken long:

---

right up the road from me. it has spread to Wood Green now. 7 year old girls running out of Curries with 5 X-Box 360s...

keep an eye on Gumtree in the next few days...

---

I'll take a PS3 if you've got one going?

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

This all kicked off due to a misunderstanding. I believe someone shouted out Macs are better that PCs and that was pretty much it.

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

I can see were the misunderstanding came in, PCs are better than Macs... Well the AMD ones are LOL

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

Quote Zukan:

---

This all kicked off due to a misunderstanding. I believe someone shouted out Macs are better that PCs and that was pretty much it.

---

Really? I heard it was because some of the Enfield crew decided to start using 96kHz SR and the Wood Green massive was having none of it.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Where are you based again Ken?

--------------------
www.matthewcracknell.com

Quote Mash:

---

Where are you based again Ken?

---

Haringey on the border with Hackney (current rioting). But they're mobilising in Lewisham, Peckham, Oxford Circus according to social networking buzz...

You're in Shoreditch right? Dalston was hit lsat night and I can see Bethnal Green entering the fray.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

...word is Stratford could be next.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Just tucked off Shoreditch High Street, so Bethnal Green Road all of 2 mins away

Didn't know about Dalston, is very horrible following FB updates from friends living in riot areas

--------------------
www.matthewcracknell.com

Hackney, Lewisham, Peckham and Croydon.

Tonight may not be good.

Gotta love it haven't you? Tories get back in and what do we have? Demonstrations and riots. And they're the party who are big on law and order?

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Edited by jellyjim (08/08/11 06:47 PM)

Just had a horrible txt from friend down the road:

"Absolutely f****n mental on Bethnal Green Road! Properly kicking off! S**t loads of balaclavas & police! x"

Dark.

--------------------
www.matthewcracknell.com

Quote jellyjim:

---

Gotta love it haven't you?

---

Not really buddy. Worried about fam and worried I won't be able to get into work tomorrow.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Quote Mash:

---

Just had a horrible txt from friend down the road:

"Absolutely f****n mental on Bethnal Green Road! Properly kicking off! S**t loads of balaclavas & police! x"

Dark.

---

Lived on BG road for years. Thought the elders would have more control than this.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

"Where I'm working nr Old Street just got raided by three masked men who stole some equipment. Got threatened but no one hurt. Locked inside with shutters down!"

--------------------
www.matthewcracknell.com

why don't they just use bloody water cannons

Several cars won't be passing their MOT's.
I'm surprised how long one can so fiercly burn. News, which that clearly is and you watch it for 20 minutes until the last of the flames die down, can be so educational.

I find it ironic that when Gadaffi says it's all criminal elements, he's all wrong and our government respect Libyan building stock by bombing it, and when the government spokespeople say it's simply all criminal elements here they're all right.

On the up side I've got me some bangin' new trainers.

--------------------
www.matthewcracknell.com

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Quote DragonLogos:

---

I can see were the misunderstanding came in, PCs are better than Macs... Well the AMD ones are LOL

---

ive got your back there champ, you bring the bottles ive got the petrol, we can go and burn down the apple shoppe if you want?

--------------------
www.humandrums.com
online session drumming at realistic prices

Tottenham makes way for new olympic village.

--------------------
.. is this thing on?

Protestors hang effigy of banker from Marble Arch

A group called the Government of the Dead dressed up as zombies for the demonstration, last night. Scores of revellers and musicians marched along Oxford Street chanting slogans and waving placards such as "eat the bankers", and "march of the corporate undead"

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

Quote Mash:

---

Just had a horrible txt from friend down the road:

"Absolutely f****n mental on Bethnal Green Road! Properly kicking off! S**t loads of balaclavas & police! x"

Dark.

---

Tesco on fire I've read from a friend.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Quote humandrums:

---

ive got your back there champ, you bring the bottles ive got the petrol, we can go and burn down the apple shoppe if you want?

---

Could open the batting with a few ipods, whats the bet I could hit a iPhone 4 for a 6

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

I am not remotely surprised by this unrest. I well remember the riots of 1981 which were an expression of youth despondency and a sense of being dispossessed. I didn't riot, I produced music, street and fringe theatre shows about it instead. But I was in Brixton then and I was one of those dispossessed youths.

I have for some time been wondering when the kids were going to kick back against the consequences of recession this time around. I have long since anticipated that they would because everything this government and its predecessor have done in response to the economic downturn, itself the result of property greed, has been to protect property owners. The Lib Dems are as guilty of this as both Labour, old and new, and the Conservatives. That more than 80% of the MPs expenses scandal was about financing their own property greed from the public purse only goes to underline how entrenched the political classes are in this dangerous dogma.

Until we have an economy that is based on growth underpinned by more than just artificially inflated property values, perhaps where public investment generates opportunity equally for those who have not 'done the right thing' as Daily Mail readers like to say, expect more of the same.

I'm not pleased to see it happening and I feel for those who are feeling the fear in those neighborhoods that are being directly effected. I live (proud to rent) in south west London, on a busy junction not far from a major A&E hospital. There's a lot of ambulance action tonight.

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

Quote ken long:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

Gotta love it haven't you?

---

Not really buddy. Worried about fam and worried I won't be able to get into work tomorrow.

---

I hope you and yours are all Ok Ken but um it was a turn of phrase that doesn't mean you gotta love it at all! It means the opposite.

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Frisonic:

---

I am not remotely surprised by this unrest. I well remember the riots of 1981 which were an expression of youth despondency and a sense of being dispossessed. I didn't riot, I produced music, street and fringe theatre shows about it instead. But I was in Brixton then and I was one of those dispossessed youths.

I have for some time been wondering when the kids were going to kick back against the consequences of recession this time around. I have long since anticipated that they would because everything this government and its predecessor have done in response to the economic downturn, itself the result of property greed, has been to protect property owners. The Lib Dems are as guilty of this as both Labour, old and new, and the Conservatives. That more than 80% of the MPs expenses scandal was about financing their own property greed from the public purse only goes to underline how entrenched the political classes are in this dangerous dogma.

Until we have an economy that is based on growth underpinned by more than just artificially inflated property values, perhaps where public investment generates opportunity equally for those who have not 'done the right thing' as Daily Mail readers like to say, expect more of the same.

I'm not pleased to see it happening and I feel for those who are feeling the fear in those neighborhoods that are being directly effected. I live (proud to rent) in south west London, on a busy junction not far from a major A&E hospital. There's a lot of ambulance action tonight.

---

Abso-[ ****** ]-lutely.

Civil unrest this widespread isn't as a result of criminal elements alone. We live in a MASSIVELY divided society and it's only getting worse. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Labour's genius was to put more people in the middle who are neither so the rich could hide even better and the poor wore ignored even more.

Our society has a deep deep sickness and nobody does a damn thing about it. In fact they make it worse they vote in the Tories.

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Frisonic:

---

I well remember the riots of 1981 which were an expression of youth despondency and a sense of being dispossessed.

---

Me too. This does not seem the same. More like LA this time.

--------------------
.. is this thing on?

Quote necromunger:

---

why don't they just use bloody water cannons

---

So why don't they just legislate against the massive greed of the banking system so that not quite so many people get quite so [ ****** ] over in the first place?

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Stan:

---

More like LA this time.

---

This forum really needs a "like" button.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Quote jellyjim:

---

Quote ken long:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

Gotta love it haven't you?

---

Not really buddy. Worried about fam and worried I won't be able to get into work tomorrow.

---

I hope you and yours are all Ok Ken but um it was a turn of phrase that doesn't mean you gotta love it at all! It means the opposite.

---

I know dude.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

So a guy on the BBC is saying the people involved aren't interested in politics and are just out for themselves.

Well yeah that's the point. They see the bankers and politicians and the likes of Murdoch getting away with murder and taking whatever the hell they like with impunity and they're thinking well why can't I? They're so dispossesed from mainstream society and they've got nothing to lose so yeah they're going to riot.

"They don't care because they don't have a stake in society." Ken Livingstone

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

i'm cynically of the opinion it's being allowed to happen so the government has an excuse to further curtail freedom at a later date....

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

---

i'm cynically of the opinion it's being allowed to happen so the government has an excuse to further curtail freedom at a later date....

---

And it wouldn't surprise me if the Police are 'well if you will cut the number of officers on the force then screw you, deal with your own bloody riots.'

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

One thing that has a lot of people really ticked off is the lack of action against the prannies that started the whole sub prime toxic loans, and it has happened worldwide... house prices went though the roof (slight pun) and the smile of this was soon gone when taxes and rates went up as well, then there was the fact that your kids were left high and dry as they could not afford to buy a house and rents also went up

I don't see things getting any better either, the stock markets are down, Gold is sitting on 1 710 and the Euro is skating on very thin ice. I think the people have had enough

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

I mean don't get me wrong, they're all complete freakin loons but you've got to ask why and specifically why now?

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Frisonic:

---

I am not remotely surprised by this unrest. I well remember the riots of 1981 which were an expression of youth despondency and a sense of being dispossessed.

---

You get perhaps one incident of genuine civil unrest & the rest is simply opportunistic criminality. I too remember the riots of 1981, we didn't even know Liverpool 8 was called Toxteth until after the riots. It's the Georgian Quarter now, they'll probably protest by holding a guerilla Rekei session.

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Quote Dynamic Mike:

---

Quote Frisonic:

---

I am not remotely surprised by this unrest. I well remember the riots of 1981 which were an expression of youth despondency and a sense of being dispossessed.

---

You get perhaps one incident of genuine civil unrest & the rest is simply opportunistic criminality. I too remember the riots of 1981, we didn't even know Liverpool 8 was called Toxteth until after the riots. It's the Georgian Quarter now, they'll probably protest by holding a guerilla Rekei session.

---

Lol!

The people involved either don't know how to express themselves politically or are unable to but rest assured it's civil unrest alright! It doesn't have to be genuine or coherent even. Some of us express our dissatisfaction and anger with the system by writing to our MPs or - God forbid - actually voting. Other people steal TVs and break stuff.

Something's gone terribly wrong and "criminality" explains bugger all.

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote DragonLogos:

---

I think the people have had enough

---

You give "the people" far too much credit. "The people" don't give a fek because the idea of success through doing fuc. all has been for fed to them for 20 years. Do you know who's to blame more than economics, bankers and government wankiness? The fuc.ing press. They can take full credit for pushing the lowest common denominator.... I 'ate 'em...

civil unrest??

unlikely...

other then that??

no comment...

hope all are safe and everyone makes it through unscathed...

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

---

i'm cynically of the opinion it's being allowed to happen so the government has an excuse to further curtail freedom at a later date....

---

in the meantime, the whole south east is burning... no government, no mayor.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Quote narcoman:

---

Quote DragonLogos:

---

I think the people have had enough

---

You give "the people" far too much credit. "The people" don't give a fek because the idea of success through doing fuc. all has been for fed to them for 20 years. Do you know who's to blame more than economics, bankers and government wankiness? The fuc.ing press. They can take full credit for pushing the lowest common denominator.... I 'ate 'em...

---

+1, this is the creed of the all-to-feckin'-easy come to life.

Let's sell people a message in which the pinnacle of ambition is to emulate the lifestyle of the vacuous all the time supported by degrees in any doohicky that contains the minimum of actual knowledge or real prospects.

Mmmm: that works then!

Reg

Quote narcoman:

---

Quote DragonLogos:

---

I think the people have had enough

---

You give "the people" far too much credit. "The people" don't give a fek because the idea of success through doing fuc. all has been for fed to them for 20 years. Do you know who's to blame more than economics, bankers and government wankiness? The fuc.ing press. They can take full credit for pushing the lowest common denominator.... I 'ate 'em...

---

Can we get estate agents in there too please?

But yeah the press don't help. It's all a big festering circle of filth feeding on itself. It's all symptoms of a deeper rot though.

Somebody's going to die at this rate. Where the hell are the police?!

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote jellyjim:

---

Quote Dynamic Mike:

---

Quote Frisonic:

---

I am not remotely surprised by this unrest. I well remember the riots of 1981 which were an expression of youth despondency and a sense of being dispossessed.

---

You get perhaps one incident of genuine civil unrest & the rest is simply opportunistic criminality. I too remember the riots of 1981, we didn't even know Liverpool 8 was called Toxteth until after the riots. It's the Georgian Quarter now, they'll probably protest by holding a guerilla Rekei session.

---

Lol!

The people involved either don't know how to express themselves politically or are unable to but rest assured it's civil unrest alright! It doesn't have to be genuine or coherent even. Some of us express our dissatisfaction and anger with the system by writing to our MPs or - God forbid - actually voting. Other people steal TVs and break stuff.

Something's gone terribly wrong and "criminality" explains bugger all.

---

Martin Luther King jr once told me, 'A riot is the language of the unheard'. Then he said, 'Do us a favour mate, grab the other end of that telly, I only live round the corner..'

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Heard that Rockbottoms in Croydon has been looted

Used to hang out there as a teenager not buying very much back in the 80s hope thats not another shop about to close.

Quote jellyjim:

---

Somebody's going to die at this rate. Where the hell are the police?!

---

They quit to appear on XFactor or do music tech degrees.

Now is that entirely inaccurate?

Quote jellyjim:

---

Where the hell are the police?!

---

Overstretched. Something to do with cuts.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

who'd be a bobbie

--------------------
.. is this thing on?

Edited by Stan (09/08/11 01:03 AM)

Or a fireman !

Quote narcoman:

---

Quote DragonLogos:

---

I think the people have had enough

---

You give "the people" far too much credit. "The people" don't give a fek because the idea of success through doing fuc. all has been for fed to them for 20 years. Do you know who's to blame more than economics, bankers and government wankiness? The fuc.ing press. They can take full credit for pushing the lowest common denominator.... I 'ate 'em...

---

+1

But public policy, as practiced by many countries that have followed Roosevelt's 1930s 'New Deal' model, has seduced not only bankers, who were simply responding to said public policy, but also Joe Schmow. In the USA, UK, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, India, China, Australia, New Zealand... and so it goes on. But it doesn't work. The media has a lot to answer for in how out of hand it has become. So do the central banks and the politicians who claim not to have been pulling their stings.

Whiteness that Germany and France, for example, which are not afflicted so badly by property greed, are not included in the list above. Also note that China and India's governments have been taking active action to quell their own property bubbles for many months.

I suspect these kids have spotted how badly they have been dumped upon and decided to take some advantage of their own. Its wrong. But no more wrong than the injustice they rightly feel.

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Jumpeyspyder:

---

Heard that Rockbottoms in Croydon has been looted

Used to hang out there as a teenager not buying very much back in the 80s hope thats not another shop about to close.

---

Saw it from one of the news 'copters. Rockbottoms shopfront was no more. The pawnbroker a few doors along was in flames, along with a few other shops along that stretch. I couldn't quite make it out, but a few shots looked like the back of rockbottom was on fire, but it may have been one of the adjacent shops. That part of West Croydon has been hit bad. Heard and read some not good things.

Build up to the 2012 Mayan vibe thingy n'est pas?
Economies crumbling, natural disasters, Cheryl back with Ashley....

We're doomed I tell ya, we're doomed (a la Dad's army dude voice).

--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Although Roosevelt was not a big fan of the Bankers... referring to them as Banksters

I think one of the things that drew me to this article was the term coup d'etat - having used the term in a song (Robbing Africa) - They're robbing Africa, a financial coup d'etat

Quote:

---

Overnight, the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve have radically changed the character of American capitalism. It is nothing less than a coup d'Etat for the class that FDR (Franklin D Roosevelt) called "banksters." What has happened in the past two weeks threatens to change the coming century - irreversibly, if they can get away with it. This is the largest and most inequitable transfer of wealth since the land giveaways to the railroad barons during the Civil War era - Michael Hudson

---

Quote:

---

The machines employed by hedge funds in particular have given a new meaning to Casino Capitalism. That was long applied to speculators playing the stock market. It meant making cross bets, lose some and win some - and getting the government to bail out the non-payers. The twist in the past two weeks' turmoil is that the winners cannot collect on their bets unless the government pays the debts that the losers are unable to cover with their own money


Investors in hedge funds had to sign a paper saying that they were rich enough to afford to lose their money on this financial gambling. Your average mom and pop investors were not permitted to participate. Despite the high rewards that millions of tiny trades generated, they were deemed too risky for the uninitiated lacking trust funds to play with


Mr. Bush and Greenspan did have a helpful solution, of course. The Treasury could turn Social Security and medical insurance money over to Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and their brethren to invest at the "magic of compound interest."


What would have happened to U.S. Social Security had this been done? Perhaps we should view the past two weeks' events as having assigned to Wall Street gamblers all the money that has been set aside since the Greenspan Commission in 1983 shifted the tax burden onto FICA wage withholding. It is not retirees who are being rescued, but the Wall Street investors who signed papers saying that they could afford to lose their money. The Republican slogan this November should be "Gambling insurance, not health insurance." - Michael Hudson September 21 2008

---

Now while all this talk of money madness is nothing new, and it would appear that there is little relation to the unrest vs the problems of the rest of world, it is a worry... and when it gets to the point were people have nothing less to loose things can get ugly quickly

Lets hope that the Banksters have not build a B Ark

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

I think this article in the Independant makes a lot of good points.

CC

--------------------
Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

This was too well orchestrated to be simple civil unrest.. I'm certain there are organising forces behind it

Riot map

got a bit too close to home here in Blackheath.. glad to here you and yours are ok Ken..




--------------------
MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Quote narcoman:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

Somebody's going to die at this rate. Where the hell are the police?!

---

They quit to appear on XFactor or do music tech degrees.

Now is that entirely inaccurate?

---

Now somebody has and its firearms what did the killing.

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

wasnt to clever in sunny liverpool either :/

--------------------
www.humandrums.com
online session drumming at realistic prices

Lots of 'people' getting together to do things in their local area - example of Mr Cameron "Big society" ?

Quote ConcertinaChap:

---

I think this article in the Independant makes a lot of good points.

CC

---

Indeed... also there was a big outcry about invading Afghanistan because it would fuel the drug problem in years to come, some things happen and sometimes ppl are pushed in a direction they really do not want to go and when they find that they are so lost there is almost no hope some Burke turns around and says its all your own fault anyway, you just happened to fall into the trap that was put there

Like putting rat poison in drugs, the drugs make them a bit high and they they feel sick from the rat poison, so they get more drugs to kill the pain... putting out fire with petrol

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

Quote ConcertinaChap:

---

I think this article in the Independant makes a lot of good points.

CC

---

indeed

what these kids are doing is entirely abhorrent but then so are multi-million pound bonuses for bankers during a recession and the most abhorrent thing of all is the system that perpetuates the whole stinking mess

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Press AND all other media.

A lot of people are getting rich [cough BBC etc cough] by force feeding us load of $%^&*** about how we should live, what we should buy, eat, use up, while at the same time putting this banquet at the end of an impossibly long table, while hiding the plates and knifes.

I cant read any newspapers, they are just a load of hypocritical waste of trees.

The Tories speak like headteachers taking to naughty boys.

And B.T.W you can discuss sociology whithout condoning any of the actions, like Jane Goodall!

--------------------

hmmmm...

there's a bit too much of the broad stroke throwing around of how offensive banker bonuses are...

it's fair to say that ALL the undeserved bonuses are offensive..... "just for showing up to the board meeting, here's a half million quid" kind of bonus...

but performance related pay bonuses.... i think could be fair comment....

if , through shrewd and intelligent investment , an investment banker makes a profit of half a billion quid for his fund clients, (and thus his bank) it's not unreasonable to pay him a million quid bonus.... it's less than 0.2% of the money he or she made for someone....

however, i DO think that they should equally have a pay cut, or bonuses reclaimed if they LOSE money......

yes, it would be nice if someone would pay any of US a million quid, but then that CAN happen , if through shrewd manipulation of notes and lyrics we write a number one hit, and a top ten album....


i would like to see an enforced tax on such performance related bonuses of say 50% , so if they earn a million, half a million goes back to the tax payer for bailing out the banking system.....


and not a total ban on the offensive ones, but a 99.9% tax ...

again, to offset the tax payer bailout.

Ha ha ...just saw Boris totaly fail...could not even get his bluster on- just shouted down!

What an eeedjet!!!

--------------------

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

---

i would like to see an enforced tax on such performance related bonuses of say 50% , so if they earn a million, half a million goes back to the tax payer for bailing out the banking system.....

---

That already happens.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote Chaconne:

---

Press AND all other media.

A lot of people are getting rich [cough BBC etc cough] by force feeding us load of $%^&*** about how we should live, what we should buy, eat, use up, while at the same time putting this banquet at the end of an impossibly long table, while hiding the plates and knifes.

I cant read any newspapers, they are just a load of hypocritical waste of trees.

The Tories speak like headteachers taking to naughty boys.

And B.T.W you can discuss sociology whithout condoning any of the actions, like Jane Goodall!

---

oh yes. The government - WE can take responsibility for. But the useless (on the whole ) press? They're the biggest part of the problem. THEY'RE the ones that have cajoled the "me too" thrill seeking "I wanna have £30k a year but I don't wanna do anything for it" attitude all to common in the UK. I 'ate em..... think I've said this before !

it is in the nature of ALL life, not just humanity, to want a free lunch.

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

---

if , through shrewd and intelligent investment , an investment banker makes a profit of half a billion quid for his fund clients, (and thus his bank) it's not unreasonable to pay him a million quid bonus.... it's less than 0.2% of the money he or she made for someone....

---

it became utterly indefensible the moment the taxpayer bailed out the mysogonistic privileged little public school pricks that make up the banking system

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

---

hmmmm...

there's a bit too much of the broad stroke throwing around of how offensive banker bonuses are...

it's fair to say that ALL the undeserved bonuses are offensive..... "just for showing up to the board meeting, here's a half million quid" kind of bonus...

but performance related pay bonuses.... i think could be fair comment....

---

I don't have a problem with people earning their money, trading land for firewater is another story, and getting massive bonuses on toxic (and known to be toxic) deals is not only out of the question, it should be go directly to jail do not pass go time

You can just hear them singing " we messed up but we made you pay, we messed up but we made you pay "

You can see Young Sprat come running into the boardroom and saying " ohh bother, it looks like the game is up " and then the Walrus turns around and says - " Maybe, but lets try and brass it out first, we can ask BOE for a few trillion till next Friday and see if the peeps buy it, if they do all well and good, if not, well you spotty lot have kept your jobs for a few weeks more "

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

---

it is in the nature of ALL life, not just humanity, to want a free lunch.

---

It is. It is. But what one shouldn't do is offer the illusion that you CAN have it.....

And in a way, society - religion, politics etc is just a sublimation of our need to survive, whilst at the same time not scratch each others eyes out.

The less 'society', the more tooth and claw, the more society, the eaisier it gets for other methods, when being fit fails.

Difficult balancing act.

--------------------

Quote jellyjim:

---

... so are multi-million pound bonuses for bankers during a recession

---

can we put this myth to bed please?

1. not everyone who works for a bank is an investor or anything to do with the credit crisis, but the media will still call them "bankers".
2. when the media report "multi million pounds" of bonuses for organisations that have 10,000+ employees that could be no more than a hundred pounds or so for each person.

just because the media tell us that there are "multi million pound bonuses for bankers" does NOT mean that johnny hedge-fund is buying another ferrari whilst giving two fingers to joe average. i'm not saying it hasn't happened but we can't trust the agenda the papers want to sell us.

... i bet the editors in fleet street got some pretty sweet bonuses last year too.

--------------------
hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

Quote jellyjim:

---

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

---

if , through shrewd and intelligent investment , an investment banker makes a profit of half a billion quid for his fund clients, (and thus his bank) it's not unreasonable to pay him a million quid bonus.... it's less than 0.2% of the money he or she made for someone....

---

it became utterly indefensible the moment the taxpayer bailed out the mysogonistic privileged little public school pricks that make up the banking system

---

Very few of those working as investment bankers in London these days are from the British public school system. Those that are are there strictly on merit, having made the grade in a ultra competitive global market. I've never worked in that industry but I know for fact that, for example, the business people at Goldman Sachs's London office comprise 64 different nationalities, few of whom are actually Brits. They typically come from every kind of background you could imagine, from privilege to outright poverty and the only thing they mostly have in common is scary high IQs, being alumni of the worlds best universities, often under full scholarships, and a work ethic that is not at odds with 80 hour or more working weeks.

Also, if they lose money not only do they not get their salary compensation (commonly but incorrectly known as their bonus). They get fired, forthwith, with no golden handshake. In fact the firm mentioned above culls 10% of its staff as a matter of routine even on a good year, just to make way for new talent. Those selected for the chop are done so strictly on the basis of their annual 360 degree performance reviews, and they all know what they are getting into even before they apply for a job. It is also interesting to note that the financial and even general media is littered with people who unsuccessfully applied for these jobs. Quite a lot of them are still deeply resentful at being turned down and to my certain knowledge use their positions as journalists to extract revenge. Easy to do when most of the population haven't got a clue what investment banking actually is.

I'm not an apologist for the financial services industry and I have always thought it 25% responsible for the economic crisis of 2008, which has never gone away. But I also award 25% respectively to politicians/policy makers, the media and those who participated in the property bubble (the mortgagees).

As I have said earlier, I do think there is a close link to the civil unrest we are seeing in the UK today and the economic collapse of 2008, which I mostly attribute to property greed in the UK, Republic of Ireland, Spain, Portugal and the United States of America. I also believe that said property greed was actively encouraged, as a central pillar of public policy in all the above countries. It is having noted this that is causing both the Chinese and Indian governments to actively cool their own property markets so as to decouple their current outstanding growth from the very high possibility of a collapse in that asset class.

Also, to put the record straight, lots of banks were not bailed out by anyone and those that were have all paid back most or all of the money they were loaned. In the case of Goldman Sachs they only accepted the token $10 billion of TARP money, which they didn't need, as a favour to Hank Paulson because he wanted to know that at least one bank in the scheme would survive. They paid it back six months later with 23% interest. Generally the 'bailouts' comprised loans that were principally given in an attempt to avoid a collapse in property values (although Vince Cable will tell you it was to keep the wheels of industry turning, which is a part of his populist but hollow mantra - back in 2007 he was rather more convincingly warning about the property bubble)...

Don't believe everything you read in Rolling Stone, especially when they attempt to report on matters not associated with Rock & Roll. I have personally met Lloyd Blankfine and he is not a vampire squid.

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

if you want a conspiracy theory to toss about, what are the odds of the press (think Murdoch) having deliberately spurred on the riots to take the spotlight off themselves....


????

after all, who cares about phone hacking when carpet right is on fire.

????????

If not that, then certainly an element of glee in the matter for the fekkers......

I just don't believe in conspiracy theories. Nobody's that organised!

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

of course.

Help has arrived.

--------------------
.. is this thing on?

The power to indebt others to oneself can be achieved by free credit creation. However, the resulting mushrooming exponential growth in indebtedness must collapse at the point where its interest and other carrying charges (now augmented by exorbitant late fees, bounced-check fees, credit-card costs and other penalties) absorb the entire economic surplus

First with military force and then via debt bondage and serfdom, Rome bequeathed to Europe a property-based, creditor-oriented body of law. But since the 13th century, country after country has shifted the balance back to favor debtors – to save them from literal debt bondage, from debtor’s prisons, from permanent indebtedness, to give them Clean Slates on an individual level

Handel arranged the first performance of The Messiah as a benefit to raise money to bail debtors out of Irish debtors’ prisons, and every year the oratorio was repeated for that charitable purpose. Martin Luther warned about the mathematics of compound interest as the monster Cacus, devouring all. Yet Luther’s denunciations of usury are excluded from his collected works in English

That is why they pay themselves such large annual bonuses and large salaries each year. The idea is to take as much as you can. As the saying goes: “You only have to make a fortune once in a lifetime.” They have been salting away their fortunes year after year, mainly in hard assets: real estate (free of mortgages), fine furniture, boats and trophy art. One last $700 billion heist and they can make their getaway

Wonder who wrote it

Michael Hudson is President of The Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trends (ISLET), a Wall Street Financial Analyst and Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

Don't bank on the casino

http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=349518

Quote:

---

The winning side assumed not only that the rival political system had collapsed but also that capitalism was the only viable system and proceeded to strip it of all existing controls and regulations.

There thus emerged a capitalism that was finally “free”, and at the same time self-destructive.

While in the 1960s the financial sector comprised just over three percent of the US GDP, by the mid- 2000s this figure had more than doubled to eight percent. The protagonists of the current economic world, with the exception of Bill Gates, come from the world of finance, from Warren Buffett and George Soros to Bernard Madoff. In the past they were industrial giants like Rockefeller, Ford, or Hilton, none of whom would have dreamed of receiving a bonus of 500 million like the one that the president of Blackwater investment group awarded himself in the middle of the financial crisis



Roosevelt was equally clear: “There must be strict supervision of all banking and credits and investments. There must be an end to speculation with other people’s money.” In his first inaugural speech he had denounced “the practices of the unscrupulous money changers” who “stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men”.

---

Roberto Savio

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

"Roosevelt was equally clear: “There must be strict supervision of all banking and credits and investments. There must be an end to speculation with other people’s money.” In his first inaugural speech he had denounced “the practices of the unscrupulous money changers” who “stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men”."

Well all banking, credits and investments are strictly supervised. But if you want to stop any speculation with other people's money, fine. Say goodbye to all the pension funds that people expect to fund their old age for example. What hedge and private equity funds do on behalf of their investors, whilst also strictly regulated is basically their own business. Their investors are highly informed and mostly fairly savvy (minimum investments tend to be in the tens if not hundreds of thousands, so only very high net worth individuals can get a seat at that particular table in the casino). And of course quite a few of those investors are the afore mentioned pension funds because its the only place they can reliably get a large enough return to offer their customers what they do. But for the sake of accuracy do remember that investment banks don't lend money as such. That's not what they do. They might invest in a deal they have put together, or a new enterprise, using their own money. That happens all the time and actually demonstrates that they too are in it for the long run.

Going back to Roosevelt, who I have always thought was a populist idiot, it was his fault that certain countries, including his own and the UK (I listed them earlier) became addicted to property greed. It's his fault that if you choose not to be in owner occupation in the UK you are regarded with suspicion and treated as a second class citizen by the tax system and the middle classes. He started it all with his 'New Deal' and look where its got us!

--------------------
Strictly project and just for fun

Sick of hearing about this .... all i can say is our hearts go out to all those innocent people - bring the army in and sort them out

--------------------
PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Quote Frisonic:

---

Well all banking, credits and investments are strictly supervised. But if you want to stop any speculation with other people's money, fine. Say goodbye to all the pension funds that people expect to fund their old age

---

I think they have just done that... said goodbye to their pension funds, why else do you think they are trying to raise the pension age, but its not really lies is it, Iraq really did have WMD, it was not about Oil... its never about free lunch Dollars, or ppl trading in Oil rather than Fiat currencies, because there is only so much Gold and far too many people

What gets me is that the so called Captains are just humans, some good, some bad - everyone is just hoping that the boat does not get rocked too much

Hedge funds, glad you brought it up, because as quoted these are run by ppl that sign papers that they are ready to loose their money, when the time came they did the brave Sir Robin

For years people have been warning about the sub-prime debt based system will crash, well here it is, say hello

Why is it? Because you cannot take without giving back

It is not

The customer has no rights, Do one to others before they do one to you.... or heads I win, tails you loose

Maybe if some people had taken the time to read John Forbes Nash jnr they might have got a handle on things and learn to respect and help people... because while this money talk would appear to be moving away from the thread topic, it is part and parcel of what is going on and its time that everyone wakes up to that fact, this is the body's way of saying that there is something wrong

--------------------
www.dragonlogos.co.uk

I've just been told its hit Guildford in Surrey !! WHAT !! I really hope not....

--------------------
PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Quote TSH-Tim:

---

Sick of hearing about this .... all i can say is our hearts go out to all those innocent people - bring the army in and sort them out

---

Yes, completely agree.

And then, afterwards, work out what's so wrong with our society that thousands and more feel so disconnected that they can do this. Then fix it.

You can't have one without the other. Otherwise it's either chaos and anarchy or a police state in our future depending on who wins the final confrontation.

CC

--------------------
Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

It simply does not do to let the lower orders of society get too numerous, in times past natural wastage in warfare would thin them out a bit, in the modern world there isn't anything for these people to do, still all is not lost, they could still do something useful,they could be kitted out with a pair of big boots and a hammer and sent out mine clearing in various parts of the world now that they are not required to soak up shrapnel.

Quote crofter:

---

hey could be kitted out with a pair of big boots and a hammer and sent out mine clearing in various parts of the world now that they are not required to soak up shrapnel.

---

Hahah... I came to the same conclusion this morning too on another mailing list.

Well I live just outside the Manchester center and it has to be said our side escaped the brunt of it althrough I noted not without some irony that Maplins and it's perminent CCTV equiptment window display had been cleared out, althrough i'm unsure if it was by looters or nervous shop owners wanting more protection.

The bigger irony for me through is that the sort of scum that were out last night were the same as you'd get at any of the race riots that hit Oldham and the such through out the year. I live just outside the legendary curry mile where it was business as normal all night without a hint of trouble, but then if your a regular hard working person of any persuasion you take some pride in your local. As far as I'm concerned we should just ship off the benefit scum to some remote island with no populace and plenty of killers preditors up the food chain and leave them there until they realise how easy they have it.

I have friends who live on Piccadilly both of them had the shops under their flats destroyed I see from the news, althrough news filters back their property upsatairs is undamaged. They are both working down down south this week thankfully otherwise I have a feeling I'd have spent the night round theirs with a number of friends a bottle of Jacks and a baseball bat each waiting for the shits to try it on.

These are not protest riots, they are abuse of not just the middle class but also the working class by those who haven't got the moxy or the self respect to do anything with their lives apart from aspire to be on Jeremy Kyle.

--------------------
ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

now.... let's see...... about 20,000 of them and about 50 million of us....


hmmmmm

Second : c'mon. It was piracy first. Use of the internet for criminal gain. Now we have internet and phone networks used for violent means. We need Twitter, Facebook, Orange, Vodafone and the rest of 'em to step in right now. What are THEY doing?

Quote narcoman:

---

now.... let's see...... about 20,000 of them and about 50 million of us....


hmmmmm

Second : c'mon. It was piracy first. Use of the internet for criminal gain. Now we have internet and phone networks used for violent means. We need Twitter, Facebook, Orange, Vodafone and the rest of 'em to step in right now. What are THEY doing?

---

Well, first of all, most of the comms was handled through RIM's encrypted network - not FB, Twitter or other open networks.

Secondly, I hope they don't change a thing. It is helping expose some of the worst regimes in the world and losing anonymity would mean certain death to change.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Anonymity is only okay when the parties can be trusted. I know I can! I don't cause major issues on here. Also - the powers within SOS know who I am.....

Comms systems, for many many reasons, DO need to change. For piracy and now for flash crowds. BUT - it's a double edged sword, of course.

The problems are deeper seeded than "just raw thuggery". Those thugs were made by us. Darkus Howe, whilst being a little inflammatory, has a point!

Quote narcoman:

---

Anonymity is only okay when the parties can be trusted. I know I can! I don't cause major issues on here. Also - the powers within SOS know who I am.....

Comms systems, for many many reasons, DO need to change. For piracy and now for flash crowds.

---

Sorry, don't buy it. Forum anonymity is incomparable to the anonymity needed for freedom of expression within brutal regimes. Without anonymity, we would not have disclosure and we would not have whistleblowers. In fact, I doubt we'd have much info in the press.

btw, I'm not talking about forum anonymity which, within a closed system as this forum is, is easy to police.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Quote narcoman:

---

The problems are deeper seeded than "just raw thuggery". Those thugs were made by us. Darkus Howe, whilst being a little inflammatory, has a point!

---

Agreed. Brilliant clip that.

--------------------
I'm All Ears.

Quote ken long:

---

most of the comms was handled through RIM's encrypted network - not FB, Twitter or other open networks.

---

Which may be more porous than its users think - interesting article in the Register.

CC

--------------------
Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

As far as I'm concerned we should just ship off the benefit scum to some remote island with no populace and plenty of killers preditors up the food chain

---

Fresh from 1788.

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

As far as I'm concerned we should just ship off the benefit scum to some remote island with no populace and plenty of killers preditors up the food chain

---

Why don't you just gas them in ovens?

Personally I'd give them fair access to education, housing and jobs. If they'd had that in the first place they wouldn't be rioting.

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote jellyjim:

---

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

As far as I'm concerned we should just ship off the benefit scum to some remote island with no populace and plenty of killers preditors up the food chain

---

Why don't you just gas them in ovens?

Personally I'd give them fair access to education, housing and jobs. If they'd had that in the first place they wouldn't be rioting.

---

They have the same access as most other people, some choose not to take it.

Quote jellyjim:

---

Personally I'd give them fair access to education...

---

They have fair access to education ... the same education as any other child in the UK, in fact.

They choose to p!ss it against the wall, however.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote ConcertinaChap:

---

You can't have one without the other. Otherwise it's either chaos and anarchy or a police state in our future depending on who wins the final confrontation.

---

I think we lost this confrontation 25 years ago when we said you can't discipline your children. We systematically dis-empowered the education system, the police, the courts and even neighbourhoods. The more astute kids realised they were untouchable & played the victim role to the naive do-gooders in the gallery. We denied them the opportunity to develop realistic expectations by removing the opportunity to fail. We told children to expect to succeed, paid them to attend school, gave them A*'s for turning up, then sold them worthless degrees in subjects which were never likely to generate a living wage. And now we wonder why kids today have no respect?

Anyone remember Lord Michael Winstanley's 'This Is Your Right' tutoring those who proudly did little, how to do less, for more? Perhaps now would be the time for a sequel, 'F*ck You, We Have Rights Too.'

I look at society now and see Kipling's 1919 prediction for the brave new world 'When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,' has arrived. Yet still we look to the 'wisdom' of Darkus Howe, rather than the traumatised asian shopkeeper saying surely his own young kids face the same discrimination, yet manage to find jobs.

We are the dis-enfranchised generation, not the scum on the streets. Maybe it's time we started taking it back?

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

I have to say I do associate with, and work with, many people who know how to play the benefits game. I'm constantly impressed by their ingenuity and application to the task.

Everyone is different, and far be it from me to say I understand everyone's motives, but of those I know...

The last thing they want is education or a job, but they do want your dinner and your X-Box. I'm afraid it's that simple.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

shakey line this one.


All have the same theoretical access. But social pressures don't work that way. I pissed my teenage years away with car theft, stealing and drug abuse. Fortunately - I wised up AND was in a position and location where it was relatively easy to "get out". I don't think it's quite as simple for people who just don't understand the way out.

Social and economic pressures are a wild and complex beast, and often MPs just do not understand the needs and requirements. How could they? They have been forced to play a media game.

When a headline on the front page of a newspaper goes on at length at the diet shenanigans of Cheryl Cole and the latest stabbing in Birmingham is relegated to three lines on page 14 you have to begin to ask yourself what newspapers and reporting really means. The ideal is a free press.... but what we really have as a free MARKET press - one in which competition far outweighs the contents within.

This - in turn - only supports an ignorant and uneducated underclass. An uneducated underclass does nothing but watch telly and listen to the "you can have anything you want" self entitlement support network of Xfactor, Britains got talent or how brilliant it s to spend 5 quid a week on lottery tickets. The mass market IS the poor end of the world. It IS those who have not much..... and yet the mass market aims to take even more away from the very souls who have nothing. The end result - you get a few stupid ideas down the throats of people who are too stupid and ignored to know and do any better.

It's even more complex than that, though. This has come at a time of economic crisis - but this crisis AGAIN is fuelled by the freedom for all super market economy of the right of centre world the democratic west lives in. Credit isn't wealth - but that's how many see it.

We care so much about the freedoms of the individual we have ignored the basic fact that those who achieve nothing (by either their own hand or their social circumstances) will automatically and without prejudice seek other roads. What's best for the country isn't necessarily best for every individual. The converse is also true.

We have lost a balance. The lack of discipline amongst a tiny few far outweighs any sense of people coming together and delivering a common cause solution. There ARE answers to this problem - but do you want the immediate band aid solution or the twenty year plan? Or do you want one of the many routes for different time frames.

I'm sure the current government want a three year solution. Well that would be small police power reform, cash into the cops and prison reform. BUT that isn't a long term answer - the long term answer is

+ to address the real race driven grievances this country STILL suffers from.
+ Understand the true implication of long term mass privatisation
+ look at what three or four generations of underclass (lack of) education means to a country
+ look at media promotion of lowest common denominator..... the ideals of the "self entitled" individual
+ think twice before expanding Europe further with nations that have hugely mis-weighted economies when compared to the older member states.
+ think about the long term implications of seeking cheaper manufacturing in "cheap" nations.
+ stop trying to be world police.


oh - and don't do EVERYTHING for private profit!

I doubt I could get 10 western citizens to sign up the the real solutions to those..... clue - one of them is giving the oil control back to the arabs and letting them set the price agenda. It's their land after all. Problem is - you'd have to tolerate the backlash of 60 year old (ex- Mesopotamia) nations who have their owns issues with the west and dictatorial vengeance.

So ..... it's a deep seeded problem, it's not gonna be solved quickly and how bad do you want it?


Shockingly - I would prefer a police state over anarchy!! At least you COULD have fair police if you wanted it!

Quote Neil C:

---

Fresh from 1788.

---

And look how that turned out!

A fine nation that most of us Brits would choose to live in if given the chance!

Quote jellyjim:

---

Why don't you just gas them in ovens?

---

Gotta give them a chance!

Quote jellyjim:

---

Personally I'd give them fair access to education, housing and jobs. If they'd had that in the first place they wouldn't be rioting.

---

They have all that, and choose not to make use of it.

I grew up with a single mother who never claimed anything other than child support in her life and certainly didn't sign on for a council house as she had too much pride. I then left home at 16 as she couldn't afford to put me through any form of further education and paid my way though any number of professional qualifications off my own back.

I've worked pretty much every day since the last day I stepped out of the school gates and then I get to watch interviews with scrotes telling us how they are owed more by the government having never worked a day in their lifes.

I've in my time worked in some of the fine drinking establishments that they visit to spend the giros and I've heard them put the world to rights about how hard done by they are.

Get. A. Job.

Don't winge that the is only menial work out there... maybe they shouldn't have spent all day messing about at school and playing hooky to go get drunk in the park and rob round the Arndale.

I don't have a problem with people who have been laid off or fallen on hard times or have some medical condition to contend with.

I have a problem with those long term, never had more than a weeks work in any given year and expect a full payout each two weeks. I don't care who you are, the are jobs out there if you get off your righteous horse and put your nose to the grindstone.

If your not willing to contribute to this countries upkeep then you shouldn't be here. I'd rather welcome the skilled masses who want to come here to work in order to improve their lives than keep paying tax to support those who don't.

--------------------
ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote crofter:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

As far as I'm concerned we should just ship off the benefit scum to some remote island with no populace and plenty of killers preditors up the food chain

---

Why don't you just gas them in ovens?

Personally I'd give them fair access to education, housing and jobs. If they'd had that in the first place they wouldn't be rioting.

---

They have the same access as most other people, some choose not to take it.

---

Well they dumped the grants system , so many can't afford a university education .

Edited by Yago (10/08/11 12:52 PM)

Do what everyone else does. Take the damn student loan (as ugly as it is).

Quote hollowsun:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

Personally I'd give them fair access to education...

---

They have fair access to education ... the same education as any other child in the UK, in fact.

They choose to p!ss it against the wall, however.

---

A black kid in a poor neighbourhood surrounded by rundown schools and poor local facilities has the same access to education as a white child with wealthy parents who can afford to move to affluent areas where the better schools are?

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

I have a problem with those long term, never had more than a weeks work in any given year and expect a full payout each two weeks. I don't care who you are, the are jobs out there if you get off your righteous horse and put your nose to the grindstone.

---

But I don't think that's who these people are. These are people who are so dispossessed that they are beyond the system. Compared to their situation your upbringing was privileged.

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

indeed. It's easy to make a judgement call from outside.

Whilst never condoning the actions of thugs, understanding why they ARE thugs should be the long term mandate. Social positioning is everything in life. Having access to education isn't enough if the social upbringing you have just laughs at students.....

Quote jellyjim:

---

A black kid in a poor neighbourhood surrounded by rundown schools and poor local facilities has the same access to education as a white child with wealthy parents who can afford to move to affluent areas where the better schools are?

---

I presume we're talking about Barack Obama? It doesn't seem to have affected his career prospects in the long term though.

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Quote Dynamic Mike:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

A black kid in a poor neighbourhood surrounded by rundown schools and poor local facilities has the same access to education as a white child with wealthy parents who can afford to move to affluent areas where the better schools are?

---

I presume we're talking about Barack Obama? It doesn't seem to have affected his career prospects in the long term though.

---

exceptions, unlike the old saying, do NOT prove a rule. They merely disprove an assumption. In this case it would be "all deprived kids have no chance".

Quote Dynamic Mike:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

A black kid in a poor neighbourhood surrounded by rundown schools and poor local facilities has the same access to education as a white child with wealthy parents who can afford to move to affluent areas where the better schools are?

---

I presume we're talking about Barack Obama? It doesn't seem to have affected his career prospects in the long term though.

---

That's one black american in tens of millions with all the advantages of his obvious natural talents. Not everybody can be Obama. Are you saying those who aren't should be condemned to a life of poverty?

--------------------
Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Interesting points, all of you.

Did I hear correctly, though, that a gang of dispossessed audio engineers was planning to meet in Denmark Street about sundown tonight ? Apparently a protest against music licensing for pubs, imported Chinese mics, and copyright infringement. Don't forget your hoodie and a brick. And save your most angry moments for when standing outside Hank's Guitar Shop: scandalously overpriced under normal circumstances ....

Quote narcoman:

---

Quote Dynamic Mike:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

A black kid in a poor neighbourhood surrounded by rundown schools and poor local facilities has the same access to education as a white child with wealthy parents who can afford to move to affluent areas where the better schools are?

---

I presume we're talking about Barack Obama? It doesn't seem to have affected his career prospects in the long term though.

---

exceptions, unlike the old saying, do NOT prove a rule. They merely disprove an assumption. In this case it would be "all deprived kids have no chance".

---

The highest recorded IQ was a black woman. There's two more assumptions disproven

Bet she couldn't parallel park though...

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Quote jellyjim:

---

Quote Dynamic Mike:

---

Quote jellyjim:

---

A black kid in a poor neighbourhood surrounded by rundown schools and poor local facilities has the same access to education as a white child with wealthy parents who can afford to move to affluent areas where the better schools are?

---

I presume we're talking about Barack Obama? It doesn't seem to have affected his career prospects in the long term though.

---

That's one black american in tens of millions with all the advantages of his obvious natural talents. Not everybody can be Obama. Are you saying those who aren't should be condemned to a life of poverty?

---

And a looted 46" TV lifts you out of poverty? No, but having your shop looted might well lower you into it

--------------------
Not much in life worth running for. Or from.