Waves is pleased to introduce a new cap on Waves Update Plan fees!
All non-overlapping Waves products (e.g. Platinum & SSL or Gold & Restoration, etc.)
are now capped at $200 per account per year.
No matter how many non-overlapping products you own or how long their coverage has been inactive - you'll never pay more than $200 per account per year.
To be eligible for the new cap, you will need to confirm that you use all selected products on one computer at a time.
Waves Update Plan coverage for overlapping products (e.g. Gold & Platinum or Diamond & Mercury, etc.) or identical products (e.g. two Gold bundles) is still capped at $200 per product per year, as usual.
Here's how to take advantage of the new cap:
Access your Waves account and click Buy Waves Update Plan.
Click I Confirm to verify that you use all selected products on one computer at a time.
Select the first product. Identical and overlapping products will become inactive.
Select additional products for Update Plan coverage. You may de-select and re-select products until you have the best combination.
Click Buy Waves Update Plan to continue.
To get Waves Update Plan coverage for other products, return to your Waves account main menu and repeat the steps above.
Find out more about Waves Update Plan
Best regards,
The Waves Team

--------------------
revelationsoundstudio.com

Universal Audio have also put a cap on their update plan fees for their UAD cards.

0$.

Quote Glenn Bucci:

---

Waves is pleased to introduce a new cap on Waves Update Plan fees!
All non-overlapping Waves products (e.g. Platinum & SSL or Gold & Restoration, etc.)
are now capped at $200 per account per year.
No matter how many non-overlapping products you own or how long their coverage has been inactive - you'll never pay more than $200 per account per year.

---

Pathetic really. Don't ever buy Waves.

They announce this like it's good news? We've sold you the software once, we're going to carry on selling it to you annually, but for a bit less cos there's a recession on.

Genius. Can I have a Brooklyn Bridge to go with that?

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...

Quote steve355:

---

Universal Audio have also put a cap on their update plan fees for their UAD cards.

0$.

---

Couldn't have said it better.................. unless perhaps in song (sung to the tune of 'She'll Be Coming Round The Mountain')

You'll be shafted every year on your Waves Plan,
You'll be shafted every year on your Waves Plan,
You'll be shafted every year, you'll never need to fear,
Your wallet will be be buggered on this plan.

Singing I will, if you will, it's a punt,
Singing I will, if you will, they're all............oops

Apologies

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

Whilst I like free software updates as much as the next man, I don't have so much of an issue with WUP as some folks seem to. You're not required to pay every year - it's not as if the product ceases to work when your WUP runs out. I end up paying every 18-36 months, and every time I've done so I've ended up with new, decent plug-ins added to my bundle (Platinum). Since I like many of the Waves plug-ins a great deal, and have no possibility of using a platform like UAD, it seems a reasonable arrangement to me.

Quote bigster:

---

Whilst I like free software updates as much as the next man, I don't have so much of an issue with WUP as some folks seem to. You're not required to pay every year - it's not as if the product ceases to work when your WUP runs out. I end up paying every 18-36 months, and every time I've done so I've ended up with new, decent plug-ins added to my bundle (Platinum). Since I like many of the Waves plug-ins a great deal, and have no possibility of using a platform like UAD, it seems a reasonable arrangement to me.

---

Limp attitudes like that allow Waves to keep getting away with it imo. Most of their plugs are way past their sell-by date anyway.

Atleast with Waves I'm not attached to a desktop, given that 90% of the work I get HAS to be moved to different locations, even the latest album mixed in the large room at work was tracked on a laptop using a 002 with some external pre's. Pre production work was started on headphones and in different studios. Then the final thing was mixed on an SSL G+ with a ton of outboard, and some plugins. UAD is not compatable with the latest mac laptops, waves is. UAD can only be used on the machine with the card in it, thats the internal PCI card. So if i wanted to move projects from my system upstairs I'd have to go into the back of both the macs and uninstall the UAD card and reinstall it on the mac downstairs.


Both systems have their pro's and cons. For the way I work waves works.

I think some of us should grow up a little, i had some serious problems with waves and others have other agenda's why they don't like them.

All that should matter to the end user is whether or not the product meets their needs, if it does then great buy it.

--------------------
Squarehead Jam Jar Facebook Jam Jar

Each to his own, Johnny - I don't think it's a limp attitude. Waves plug-ins work great for my and many other people's needs, for the reasons James mentions above and others. I'm personally happy to support any company that continues to provide support and updates -what a concept! If Waves isn't for you - fine. No-one's forcing you to buy anything.

I just don't get waves at all. They've always made completely average sounding plug-ins that cost an absolute fortune!

They are inferior in dynamics to Sonnox, UAD, SPL, T-Racks..
They are inferior in eq to Sonnox, Sonalksis, TC, UAD, Nebula, Abbey Road..
They are WAY inferior with reverb to Lexicon, aether, Nebula, TC

Honestly what is the point?

Q-Clone for instance came out and cost £1000 - I dont know how much it is now, but Nebula uses a FAR more advanced convolution engine and costs a fraction of the price. Okay it doesn't LOOK as flashy, but sonically its way ahead.

Quote bigster:

---

Each to his own, Johnny - I don't think it's a limp attitude. Waves plug-ins work great for my and many other people's needs, for the reasons James mentions above and others. I'm personally happy to support any company that continues to provide support and updates -what a concept! If Waves isn't for you - fine. No-one's forcing you to buy anything.

---

On a more serious note, your last point is true, which I fully accept.

However, given you're a Waves user and I'm not, I'd have thought you'd be far more interested in Waves changing their policy than I am!

These 'tit for tat' debates often seem to be time wasters, but their usefulness lies for people who are considering buying into a new plug-in system. There's no point in trying to convince current users one way or the other. If you've invested thousands of dollars in a plug-in suite, you're unlikely to turn round and say the plugs are inferior and that you're going to stop paying the ongoing rental (WUP), which is the decision I finally made.

James is right, UAD plugs have to be used on a card, so would be less flexible if you're moving between several computers, so it's connected to work flow too, but then any software has to be installed on every computer you use, I guess the difference is the iLok is more transferable.

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

---

James is right, UAD plugs have to be used on a card, so would be less flexible if you're moving between several computers, so it's connected to work flow too, but then any software has to be installed on every computer you use, I guess the difference is the iLok is more transferable.

---

There is the UAD Solo laptop card which you can stick in your top pocket and move from machine to machine with ease....

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...

Waves have always had solid products right from the early days.

While it's true that some of their early plugins are a bit long in the tooth now, and some of them aren't that great, most are decent and some of the more recent ones are very good - certainly some are as good as, if not better than some of their UAD counterparts (Some of UA's plugins are also long in the tooth as well...)

I don't have a problem with their products, or their support. Up until recently, their authorisation procedure was hopelessly complicated and arcane, although they've finally junked that old system and things are I understand a bit better now. They've done some things that are, eh, 'questionable' and it certainly hasn't helped their image.

But I think the "it's fashionable to be a Waves basher" is getting a bit old now. if you don't like their products, or their policies, or their politics, buy something else. It's not like we are short of alternatives... :shrugs:

Quote desmond:

---

They've done some things that are, eh, 'questionable'

---

Not trying to hijack, but out of curiosity: Are they still doing this plug-in Gestapo thing?

I've been shafted once by Waves.. when buying another of their products. I was told it wasn't compatible with one of my other Waves plugs and had to upgrade...

Since then I don't buy Waves and I don't upgrade my main recording rig. It's stable so I don't try and fix it.

Fluckers.... still great plugs though!

Quote Tui:

---

Not trying to hijack, but out of curiosity: Are they still doing this plug-in Gestapo thing?

---

Don't know - I suspect it did far more damage than accounted for in extra plugin sales revenues, so I doubt it. Maybe a few people removed removed Warvez (see what I did there?) from their computers out of concern, but that' hardly going to make any difference to them.

Certainly, "Ban Piracy" didn't, and despite trying to form an industry-wide coalition to try and reclaim "lost" revenues due to piracy, as far as I can see, the only company who ever signed up was Waves. And that was because it was started by an ex-Waves director.

The last news item on banPiracy regarding "action" was February 2009...

Quote Steve Hill:

---

There is the UAD Solo laptop card which you can stick in your top pocket and move from machine to machine with ease....

---

If you have 17" MacBook Pros.

(or old machines, or PCs)

Quote desmond:

---

Waves have always had solid products right from the early days.

---

Exactly, "solid", which means functional, mediocre and unspectacular. Unfortunately these "solid" plug-ins are sold at extraordinary prices and come with obscene usage and upgrading policies.

Quote:

---

While it's true that some of their early plugins are a bit long in the tooth now, and some of them aren't that great, most are decent and some of the more recent ones are very good - certainly some are as good as, if not better than some of their UAD counterparts (Some of UA's plugins are also long in the tooth as well...)

---

That's the vaguest paragraph i've ever read!

Quote:

---

But I think the "it's fashionable to be a Waves basher" is getting a bit old now. if you don't like their products, or their policies, or their politics, buy something else. It's not like we are short of alternatives... :shrugs:

---

I don't bash things out of fashion. I've always found Waves to be massively overrated. I was once a big UAD fan, and I do still really like them as a company, and I respect their plugins too, though I do feel the DSP model is beginning to show its age.

Waves though, I would recommend to anyone to stay as far away as possible.

I understand completely how boring it can get listening to the moans and grumbles and I agree it's gone on for some time now. However, have a thought for those in a situation similar to this:

A studio setup, with 5 rooms. Waves plugins bought for each workstation to achieve 'industry standard' (at the time) and clients, in particular visiting engineers, often requesting Waves to match what they were used to, or used in their own rooms.

Waves introduces WUP, which for the reasons mentioned above, required expensive, complex and unexpected update costs just to keep the workstations up to date with their systems. In many cases, the options were to either abandon compatibility with other sessions and write off the purchase, or bite the bullet.

Waves had such customers over a barrel and the extra costs were not mentioned when the purchase was first made.

Although reasonable costs for upgrades can and are planned for, unexpected hits like the WUP really bite into budget that is intended for other items.

Of course, people in this situation usually just have to bend over, at least until alternatives can be planned. The only way to express the frustration is to let others know how unhappy they are, and try to get Waves to change their policy which it seems is happening.

I'm guessing a combination of wide scale moaning and changing plugin fashion has made Waves think again.

Quote johnny h:

---

Exactly, "solid", which means functional, mediocre and unspectacular.

---

It only means that if those are the adjectives you choose to illustrate it.

There *are* some unspectacular and mediocre ones, and some great ones, as I already mentioned in my "vague" post (what do you want, an individual product catalog with my personal views on every plugin they've ever made?)

Quote johnny h:

---

Unfortunately these "solid" plug-ins are sold at extraordinary prices and come with obscene usage and upgrading policies.

---

Their prices are on the high side, because they like to market themselves for professionals rather than the "I refuse to pay more than £20 for my DAW" entitlement generation that whine and moan whenever they can't afford something.

But that doesn't mean they are all like this - for example, I bought the Musicians Bundle 2, specifically because the Renaissance Comps are good sounding and functional, and Doubler is great without a decent alternative. The EQ's are Ok, and Supertap I don't use as it's imo a pretty boring bland plugin. But for essentially a hundred quid, I got the RenComp and RenVox, Doubler, the RenEQ's, SuperTap and RenAxe, and I consider that a pretty good deal. Then, the ren comps were for me much better sounding and simpler to use than Logic's compressor, and I bought them specifically as a replacement for the UAD compressors which I lost due to moving to a laptop.

When I upgraded my machine and had to generate a new auth because they had moved away from disk authorisation, even though I was out of WUP Waves did generate me new authorisations, and I paid the £20 later on for WUP when needing to update the plugins for a new OS.

Less than I've had to pay for other PPC->Intel upgrades, or new OS versions. That's not really "obscene", at least in my case. Of course I'm not a massive bundle owner, but it seems $200 for a $4K bundle is not really obscene. Heck if you want a one time ProSupport phone call with Apple about ProApps it costs nearly that. For *one* phone call. (That *is* what I call obscene... ( ! )).

Their new plugins, like the CLA series, are very good and certainly "up there" in terms of modelling and good sounding DSP. Don't right them off as "bad" simply because you have a bias against the company.

However, I much prefer the attitudes of some other, more customer-focused companies and prefer to invest my money elsewhere these days. But if an individual likes Waves products, and knows the implications of WUP and what they are buying into and still want to buy them, I can't say they are a "bad" choice, because politics aside, while not every product they make is a knockout, they do have some great products still.

Quote Steve Hill:

---

Quote Bob Bickerton:

---

James is right, UAD plugs have to be used on a card, so would be less flexible if you're moving between several computers, so it's connected to work flow too, but then any software has to be installed on every computer you use, I guess the difference is the iLok is more transferable.

---

There is the UAD Solo laptop card which you can stick in your top pocket and move from machine to machine with ease....

---

Apart from as i said; doesn't work with any current 13 or 15inch laptops, and the 17 is too big and expensive over the 15inch.

Also it means an expresscard converter in every machine, or a UAD card in every computer.

As it is i need an internet connection on the host computer and an ilok.


I actually tried to get hold of a laptop with the expresscard slot, I went to an apple reseller, they actually had one on show, they refused to sell it to me because apple would bite their ass if they didn't return the show model.

I then travelled to an apple store and asked if they had any instock, they didn't and they couldn't sell me one because they were only allowed to sell the new ones, due to some stupid rule, essentially a jobsworth situation. No matter how I pleaded they couldn't get me one.

After 2 weeks, I needed to have a laptop, so i gave in to apple's bullshit rules and got the new version, sad in the knowledge that I could never work with UAD plugins, atleast till I can afford a Mac Pro in a portable rack anyways.



As for quality, what a load of tosh, Waves produce some fantastic plugins used by tons of professionals, just look at the mix analysis tracks in soundonsound. I think you would be hard pressed to find one where not one waves plugin has been used.


They produce some fantastic plugins, as do UA, Nomad, URS, PSP.



Tools for the job, not whats in vogue.

--------------------
Squarehead Jam Jar Facebook Jam Jar

Quote johnny h:

---

Quote desmond:

---

While it's true that some of their early plugins are a bit long in the tooth now, and some of them aren't that great, most are decent and some of the more recent ones are very good - certainly some are as good as, if not better than some of their UAD counterparts (Some of UA's plugins are also long in the tooth as well...)

---

That's the vaguest paragraph i've ever read!

---

I think you must need to read more often. That paragraph isn't in the slightest bit vague.

I'm not keen on Waves business policies either.

BUT Waves do one thing no one else does - offer a big bundle of plugins that do everything that no one else does. Back when bundled plugins with sequencers were mediocre at best and generally lacking in certain processing options, Waves offered a one stop shop solution, and became very successful on the back of that.

Now, most sequencers and audio applications come with a fairly respectable base of plugins themselves, which is why they are now catching up with other plugin manufacturers and offering more 'boutique' and retro effects.

But their brand is entrenched, and they still offer a one-stop-shop for EVERYTHING you need audio-processing wise. And until anyone else gets a clue and steps up and offers what they do, Waves will stay at the top.

--------------------
http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk

If it addresses your needs and you can afford the outlay, the Mercury bundle is a bit of a no-brainer. Catch Waves at a time when they're doing one of their big discounts and buy through an American online retailer for further savings and you end up with a shedload of good plugs that are updated with new releases without cost and a maxxed out WUP of $200.

What's not to like?

On the other hand, a lot of their other bundles are way overpriced I think, and the pricing strategy on their recent 'build your own bundles' promo seems way off beam.

Quote desmond:

---

Their prices are on the high side, because they like to market themselves for professionals rather than the "I refuse to pay more than £20 for my DAW" entitlement generation that whine and moan whenever they can't afford something.

---

Waves plugins have been historically the most easily cracked and heavily pirated. Perhaps this is the secret to their success; get everyone running the cracked versions to breed familiarity and network effects, then the studios are forced into buying them. Whether this will work in the future with falling budgets and studios closing down all the time, i'm not sure.

Quote:

---

But that doesn't mean they are all like this - for example, I bought the Musicians Bundle 2, specifically because the Renaissance Comps are good sounding and functional, and Doubler is great without a decent alternative. The EQ's are Ok, and Supertap I don't use as it's imo a pretty boring bland plugin. But for essentially a hundred quid, I got the RenComp and RenVox, Doubler, the RenEQ's, SuperTap and RenAxe, and I consider that a pretty good deal. Then, the ren comps were for me much better sounding and simpler to use than Logic's compressor, and I bought them specifically as a replacement for the UAD compressors which I lost due to moving to a laptop.

When I upgraded my machine and had to generate a new auth because they had moved away from disk authorisation, even though I was out of WUP Waves did generate me new authorisations, and I paid the £20 later on for WUP when needing to update the plugins for a new OS.

Less than I've had to pay for other PPC->Intel upgrades, or new OS versions. That's not really "obscene", at least in my case. Of course I'm not a massive bundle owner, but it seems $200 for a $4K bundle is not really obscene. Heck if you want a one time ProSupport phone call with Apple about ProApps it costs nearly that. For *one* phone call. (That *is* what I call obscene... ( ! )).

Their new plugins, like the CLA series, are very good and certainly "up there" in terms of modelling and good sounding DSP. Don't right them off as "bad" simply because you have a bias against the company.

However, I much prefer the attitudes of some other, more customer-focused companies and prefer to invest my money elsewhere these days. But if an individual likes Waves products, and knows the implications of WUP and what they are buying into and still want to buy them, I can't say they are a "bad" choice, because politics aside, while not every product they make is a knockout, they do have some great products still.

---

I haven't tried out the CLA series. I do think the Renaissance EQs and Compressors were way overhyped, but did a job. The reverb was very low quality though, bordering on being completely useless, and even the IR-1 suffers from the same lifelessness of other static convolution reverbs. Imo this is more of a problem for electronic and pop music than acoustic or classical.

Quote johnny h:

---

I haven't tried out the CLA series. I do think the Renaissance EQs and Compressors were way overhyped, but did a job. The reverb was very low quality though, bordering on being completely useless, and even the IR-1 suffers from the same lifelessness of other static convolution reverbs. Imo this is more of a problem for electronic and pop music than acoustic or classical.

---

Have you tried the SSL 4000 emulations? It's great, great EQ, compressor has a great aggressive bite to it.

API stuff? Neve emulations? The new Helios channel and Pye compressor? Puig's Pultec and Fairchild emulations? Problem solving plug ins like the Debreath and De esser?

--------------------
Squarehead Jam Jar Facebook Jam Jar

The SSL 4000 are amazing plugs.. as are the Neve V Series and Maxx Bass plugs I use..

You can't detract from the quality... regardless of the politics.

I quite like trueverb, using the early reflections only, though.
More for placement than any obvious reverb, it's easier to setup than manually programmed delays for the same idea.

I just got their Vocal Rider - which is really effective. Except for a similar product that's ProTools only, it's unique, so I had to buy Waves.

--------------------
You live. You learn.

Quote MarcusH:

---

I just got their Vocal Rider - which is really effective. Except for a similar product that's ProTools only, it's unique, so I had to buy Waves.

---

Likewise for me with their stereo to 5.1 upmix plug. Saved my bacon a few times, is very effective and costs a whole lot less than anything comparable on the market.

Waves-bashing, count me in, where do I sign?

I stopped using them as soon as they introduced the WUP. I used to love the renaissnace compressor, soooo glad I never forked out for one of the more expensive bundles.

Quote stinkfinger:

---

Waves-bashing, count me in, where do I sign?

I stopped using them as soon as they introduced the WUP. I used to love the renaissnace compressor, soooo glad I never forked out for one of the more expensive bundles.

---

That's exactly the attitude a lot of people on many forums, not just this one take,

State that they hate such n such a company. Go on to say they used to love a product they did once, go on to say they never wanted to pay for some of that companies high end stuff, and end up saying that they did [ ****** ] up once so they are never going to buy stuff ever again.


Don't get me wrong, some companies do some bad things they lose customers, however i do tire of needless bad press when a company takes steps to right previous wrongs...

--------------------
Squarehead Jam Jar Facebook Jam Jar

Quote JamesSimpson:

---

Quote stinkfinger:

---

Waves-bashing, count me in, where do I sign?

I stopped using them as soon as they introduced the WUP. I used to love the renaissnace compressor, soooo glad I never forked out for one of the more expensive bundles.

---

That's exactly the attitude a lot of people on many forums, not just this one take,

State that they hate such n such a company. Go on to say they used to love a product they did once, go on to say they never wanted to pay for some of that companies high end stuff, and end up saying that they did [ ****** ] up once so they are never going to buy stuff ever again.


Don't get me wrong, some companies do some bad things they lose customers, however i do tire of needless bad press when a company takes steps to right previous wrongs...

---

Yes I kind of agree with you, despite the fact that i've been waves bashing myself!

As for your earlier comments about the newer plugins, I've tried the SSL which was okay, not life changing or anything. I've got a UAD card so I've never been tempted to try the Fairchild or Pultec - are Waves emulations superior to UAD's?

Afraid i've never been able to try the UAD's I rather like the waves SSL myself, really comes together when using lots of instances to glue things together, imparts some sort of pleasing sound to my ears. I don't own the fairchilds but i demo'd them and found them great, couldn't afford all the plug ins i want though haha.

--------------------
Squarehead Jam Jar Facebook Jam Jar

Quote JamesSimpson:

---

State that they hate such n such a company. Go on to say they used to love a product they did once, go on to say they never wanted to pay for some of that companies high end stuff, and end up saying that they did [ ****** ] up once so they are never going to buy stuff ever again.


Don't get me wrong, some companies do some bad things they lose customers, however i do tire of needless bad press when a company takes steps to right previous wrongs...

---

This is getting tiresome but let me say:

Waves is the only company I criticize like this and I'm very consistent in my criticism.

I did buy some 'high-end' stuff from them including two suites, including the mastering one.

They haven't taken steps to right the wrong of WUP - it still exists!

Had they had a different policy re WUP I probably would have bought many more thousands of dollars of plug-ins from them.

My advice to people about to buy into plug-in suites is to avoid Waves because I believe their WUP scheme is extortionate.

My advice to current users is to do yourselves a favour, stop defending Waves, and lobby them to change their policy!

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

Can I ask - is WUP wrong in principle or is it the actual prices that they've set? I mean if it was capped at $50 a year would people still be annoyed?

Yes if I'd bought say stuff like Mercury Native for $9,800, then Waves' rather self-satisfied press release, graciously capping my contribution at $200 p.a. would indeed have me seething. But if they had wanted $50 a year for the same products, it might not bother me.

--------------------
You live. You learn.

I think the whole Ban Piracy episode was shameful and they should realise that entrapping potential customers and then prosecuting them isn't going to win any friends. I own a few of their plug-ins and I was thinking of buying more but I'm now going for alternatives as a matter of policy. I don't want to support a company that treats their potential customers as criminals.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

All you have to do if you don't like it though is not buy their products which as you say you do.

So if your not buying its no longer a problem for you and no longer a moan, for those of us who need these plugins as a matter of course, any cap on update fee's is welcome.


Essentially what i'm trying to say is people who don't even use or own waves products seem to bitch and moan continuously like waves come knocking at their door bending them over their mixing desk and scream at them to buy their plugins.


Waves have a place, as do UAD, URS, Sonnox, TC, IK multimedia, etcccc

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Squarehead Jam Jar Facebook Jam Jar

Quote JamesSimpson:

---

Waves have a place

---

They sure do - one that's been especially reserved for them: