Jubilant by Paggos

Please, if you will, give some feedback if at all possible. I'll change some parts that i think need some fine-tuning, such as the build, and the pitch of the first lead...hm, but yeah, thanks a lot for your feedback, it goes a long way and springs up some new ideas!

-Brandon

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Makes absolutely no sense to me!

music to put you in a bad mood

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Mac Pro, Logic Pro, lots of software and 17 hard drives!

Oh dear!

Did anyone see that documentary about Bill Withers that was on TV over the weekend? he came out with a great quote. "On the journey to wonderful, we all pass through 'alright', and we should take a good look around and get used to it, as 'alright' is about as far as many of us will ever get"

He wasn't being pompous by the way, he was making the point that he felt very lucky

Am sorry Brandon, it is difficult to say whether the mix is good as the music itself sets my teeth on edge, it sounds like one of those irritating mobile phone ring tones, but goes on and on and on and on, who/what are your influences, demented fleas?

Go listen to some exemplary electronica, even going back as far as Vangelis, Moroder, Sakamoto and make comparisons

Different genres, different opinions, i wasn't asking for idiotic opinions, i was asking for facts regarding to the content of the music, but i guess everybody has their own opinion.

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Ok.. trying to stay helpful here (although I can understand the views already expressed)

The lead line is way too high in the mix.. there is definitely a high annoyance level with this sound and tone, so I would pull it back somewhat so it's not poking me in the face.

There is also a sense of disconnect with the track.. the elements dont flow into one another and there is a discordant feel with the other elements in the track..
try working with different harmonic progressions until you find something that works and flows.. if the track flows harmonically, then the production side becomes a lot easier

hope this is a bit more constructive for you.. keep going with it




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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Okay, thanks, but it does harmonize later on...it just doesn't glue because the mix is so bad...and towards the end i got a bit lazy, but i do agree with your suggestions, the second one im wondering what i should do to better harmonize the track...without doing a cliche pop progression...idk.

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

It says on the soundcloud 'premaster'. Please, please, please do not get this mastered.

Give this guy a listen — I'd say it's well worth checking out if you want an example of contemporary electronic music done really well.

Cheers!

Chris

It's certainly an odd piece of music. From a brief listen it sounds like a lot of loops running and someone muting/un-muting them at intervals - and not always in time.

Sorry if this seems cruel, but hopefully you can appreciate me being honest with you. Personally I'd put this one down to experience and begin another project where you can put into practice what you've learned from undertaking this one.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote johnny h:

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It says on the soundcloud 'premaster'. Please, please, please do not get this mastered.

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LOL - what a hoot!

Quote Paggos:

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Different genres, different opinions, i wasn't asking for idiotic opinions, i was asking for facts regarding to the content of the music, but i guess everybody has their own opinion.

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You asked for comment, you got it. If you're start calling people idiots, I'd forget the music industry, because it is ruthlessly candid. Maybe you're not ready for that yet?

Quote OneWorld:

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Quote Paggos:

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Different genres, different opinions, i wasn't asking for idiotic opinions, i was asking for facts regarding to the content of the music, but i guess everybody has their own opinion.

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You asked for comment, you got it. If you're start calling people idiots, I'd forget the music industry, because it is ruthlessly candid. Maybe you're not ready for that yet?

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Understatement of the year.

Paggy, you are actually very lucky that you have had some honest answers here. Quite often people will either ignore bad music or be polite to a fault by criticising minor details which have no bearing on how terrible the actual music is.

If you react to this with oh 'fff uuu im a genius you dont understand, its just the mix, or equipment etc' then just give up straight away. Honestly, you take that bit of music to ANYONE who won't lie to your face and it will not get you anywhere.

I wish you every success but you need to go right back to the drawing board. Learn about harmony, structure, rhythm and sound design. Its an extremely competitive market right now and you have to be damn good at all of those things.

Alright, well can a trusty admin please delete this thread, and my account...i don't appreciate being bashed everywhere, i already know i suck...oh well...

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

So glad I got over this sought of thing while I was still starting out and lucky I was making music before I was an audio engineer.

It takes time to learn anything Pugga, I think this is something you need to understand first. Think of it this way... The time that passes from now until you turn around and think "I really regret not continuing with that" will be upon you before you know it, but the time spent improving and learning does not have to be any longer (although it may seem it) We learn most from our mistakes afterall, it's quick andeasy to make a mistake, but it takes time make many mistakes much like learning .

So what would you rather have? A nasty regret or some wonderful knowledge?

Sorry Paggos, but no.

SOS forums are a public forum, always have been and always will be. We aren't in the habit of deleting threads and deleting accounts just because people don't like the outcomes. And be honest, would you be asking for both if the response had been 100% positive? Of course not.

You came here asking for feedback, and that is what you received. And, by it's nature, this is a forum populated by people who have a serious interest in music and production. So you shouldn't be surprised when that feedback is critical, not in the negative sense but in an informed sense. Even if that feedback feels tough and personal when you are on the receiving end.

It may well be that you are confident in your direction and that the people here 'just don't get it'. In which case, best of luck. In time this thread will drop down the list and effectively disappear. But it won't be deleted, because whether you like the outcome or not a bunch of people gave up their free time to listen to your work and comment on it as requested. And they deserve better than to have their efforts disregarded and thrown away on a whim.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Oh come on, i really want to hear this track and it's gone.

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Ahh ha ha, ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

I agree. In fact I've never wanted to hear a track so much in my life.

I'm not saying that because I want to make fun - I bet I would have really liked it.

I'm not the kind to start throwing chairs at a Rites of Spring premiere.

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'These are my principles and if you don't like them...well, I have others' (Groucho Marx) www.ownlittleworld.net/tunes.html

Quote Paggos:

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Alright, well can a trusty admin please delete this thread, and my account...i don't appreciate being bashed everywhere, i already know i suck...oh well...

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That a woefully misguided reaction.

You'll have to overcome this attitude to get anywhere in this (or any!) business.

If you want open, *honest* professional opinion that can help you develop and grow into what you want to be then take it on the chin and accept that people are taking time and trouble to HELP YOU!

Come back, talk to us and explain what you're trying to do and how you're doing it - that way you'll get somewhere. Taking your ball home will achieve nothing at all, and that's a shame, because you obviously care about what you're doing.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I'm curious to hear it as well. I did however listen to some of the tracks on his soundcloud. Now I don't claim to be a "professional" or the best at what I do, but he does seem to lack the fundamentals of how to produce and arrange a mix. I'm not judging though as I have no idea how long this aspiring individual has been practising in this field of audio. But I can also understand where the other posters are coming from in this thread.

We were all there at some point in our lives...

Edited by Fealow (16/03/12 09:10 AM)

Paggos mate. You must have really screwed up on "Jubilant" because all the other stuff on Soundcloud is pretty mint IMO (and I am not a regular electronica aficionado).


Think about it - when was the last time you heard of a piece of music getting reactions this strong? That's the best reason on Earth to keep doing what you do. Just go even further.

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'These are my principles and if you don't like them...well, I have others' (Groucho Marx) www.ownlittleworld.net/tunes.html

Shidthebed!

The piano solo on "Dreams" is GENIUS

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'These are my principles and if you don't like them...well, I have others' (Groucho Marx) www.ownlittleworld.net/tunes.html

Paggos can you hear us, where is your track???????

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Ahh ha ha, ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

I listened to the track last night. I wouldn't class it as electronica; it is more like house music, with a standard 4/4 beat and looping sections which build up and drop out. The problem was, as highlighted by The Elf, that it lacked formula; parts just dropped in and out without working to a pattern or any sort of crescendo. Some parts seemed to have notes which clashed and didn't sound right. Some of the loops clashed with others as well. The lead part had an 8-Bit sound to it, but the music wasn't in the 8-Bit genre.

It seems that the OP won't be returning though, so it would seem pointless to put any advice for him on how to improve his track. If he returns I am happy to give some pointers.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Yeah, i hear you guys...and i understand. I think half the reason my tracks don't sound that well anymore, is my lack of organization, and my randomness within everything.
I have learned a lot from this project, and it isn't harmonically correct, i see that...i also see this track spawning about 3 different tracks..which is what i have done.
Thank you guys so much for the feedback, I just get very frustrated because electronic music is the only thing i've really known, i've only been making music for around 2.5 years. So, i don't know, maybe it's just one of those projects that you learn from, as a 17 year old, i don't take everything in the best of ways...but i love what i do, and i will continue to improve.

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Respect to you, mate. I think you just took an important step forward.

Keep on making music, keep believing in yourself and keep taking the criticism. Everyone's opinion is valid, even if it's not one you share.

My main advice to you now is to not labour over your existing material, but move on. You'll get better and better if you stick with it, but it can become self-defeating to keep hammering on the same door for too long.

Tell us a little about you how you write/record your material.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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Respect to you, mate. I think you just took an important step forward.

Keep on making music, keep believing in yourself and keep taking the criticism. Everyone's opinion is valid, even if it's not one you share.

My main advice to you now is to not labour over your existing material, but move on. You'll get better and better if you stick with it, but it can become self-defeating to keep hammering on the same door for too long.

Tell us a little about you how you write/record your material.

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I either take field recordings or external synths...or my monotron to make sounds, sometimes i use presets to get a basis, and tweak around...i'm just now getting structured and i think my stuff is sounding organized, im actually working on a new song now http://soundcloud.com/paggos/youre-doing-it-right-oh-wait but it's weird and not structured yet, just a loop. I try my best, but i absolutely hate being cliche...i like doing my own thing, but i guess i have to do my own thing, with some sort of connection with other people :P Also, i have really bad ADD, and i think you can hear that in my music...i make it for fun, and i like bouncy rhythms

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

That sounds a like a good approach. It's great that you're keen to avoid cliches, but it might also be useful for you to try to recreate and understand some of those cliches as an experiment. After all, it's easier to break the rules if you know what the rules are - else you could end up just barking at cars.

It's also too easy to use 'rule breaking/avoiding cliches' as an excuse for not really having a grasp of what you're doing - and people will see through that. As engineers/producers we do hear this quite a lot and it can make us cynical. Do the ground work and know your art.

Keep the faith and keep at it. You'll need to develop patience with yourself and allow yourself to make mistakes - but always be ready for that moment when the spark happens and you hit that perfect moment. When you do you'll know it.

I also listened to some of your other stuff. Although I can't say I'm madly keen on all of it I can hear that you are developing a style of your own - all you need to do is perfect it.

Best of luck and keep coming back.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Appreciate it actually, if you will, could you PM me your msn, email, or etc? Would be nice to keep in touch

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

What an astonishingly negative response this thread has been...

Amazing really...I mean, some of the dross I've listened to from middle aged men around these parts, and a 17 year old comes along with all this skill and potential and Pangloss is the only one who seems to get it.

Oh well - I love it too Paggos...

Nukem Dukem is a bad ass track http://snd.sc/ygYJIK

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I'm All Ears.

It's alright, some people were constructive, some more than others.

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Quote Paggos:

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Appreciate it actually, if you will, could you PM me your msn, email, or etc? Would be nice to keep in touch

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I'm always around these parts. Think of me as a virtual Waldorf or Statler!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Had a listen to your tracks and I like them. I'm sure any musician producer can think of something they would like to add and I'm no exception but I would beware advice to follow the same old clichés. Building to a crescendo is getting rather tiring in every track. An interesting thing about music is that it can reflect life in a condensed form. Life is not all about crescendos and life is not all in the right places in accord with a set of rules. The main issue with music is not about it being 'correct'in accord with previous rules as laid out by some nebulous music literati. The important thing is who and how many relate to your sounds. Get it out there and see. The comments of non musicians are often the most informative bit like the authors that give their work to your average Joe to see how understandable it is. If you are going to follow tricks and methods of others you choose who they are and listen carefully to what they are doing. Then if you can't work out how it's done, this is the place to find out but as many on here don't seem to be even in the ball park of getting what you are doing, don't let them discourage you.
I hear a lot of tired old fashioned over 40s music on here that gets highly praised. know your market if you want to do weddings and christenings that's the direction to go. If you want to be pushing the envelope then you need to plough your own furrow. I often think of the negative feedback Morrisey must have got when he started. His voice must have seemed laughable at the time because nobody had done it that way but enough people related to it to make it acceptable.

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www.myspace.com/shambolic-charm


Edited by Shambolic Charm (17/03/12 10:37 AM)

A Waldorf "Elf" that could be an interesting new synth

Well done Brandon for coming back.. as Elf said an important but difficult step to take.. critisism is undoubtably the most difficult thing for any artist to take, but nontheless the most important one if we are to grow and improve as creative people.
It also serves to weed out those who are truly passionate about what they do and those who are just seeking an ego trip.. the fact that you have returned shows that you are the former..
I've been seeking that musical nirvana for the best part of 25 years now and I still produce stuff that totally sucks(most of it).. but I'm getting better at spotting the good from the bad
Most of my best stuff has been from collaborating.. Working in a collaboration can often be a great catalyst for improvement.. with the right mix of skills, you both end up contributing to the pot and learn masses in the result

Good luck with it all and keep the faith.. looking forward to hearing some more stuff



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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Quote Chevytraveller:

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Most of my best stuff has been from collaborating.. Working in a collaboration can often be a great catalyst for improvement.. with the right mix of skills, you both end up contributing to the pot and learn masses in the result

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I wish that was the same with me, I have found it very difficult working with other people in the studio and always feel under pressure... Time is ticking... You need to make something good..
I think the key is finding people you can be very comfortable around.
All of my "better" stuff has been done at 2am probs not wearing much and scratching my balls... See can't to that with other people about lol
Still I'd preffer a set of highly trained flying monkeys which I can say do this do that, play it like this, play it like that.... Or perhaps I just need piano lessons so I can be the trained monkey lol As I have plenty of ideas but always have difficulty nailing the bits on keys or guitar hence the monkeys

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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All of my "better" stuff has been done at 2am probs not wearing much and scratching my balls...

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a delightful image.. inspiration can come from so many sources




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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Hahah terrible isn't it.. The room I have the music stuff set up in is tiny, all I have to do in the winter is turn everything on and with in a hour the room is scorching hot, the door keeps closing itself if I leave it open cos I don't think it's level so I use a broken JEN SX-1000 to keep it open then I trip over the Jen, I have now started using a broken Emagic MIDI interface but keep hitting my foot on it and it hurts. It's a great working environment lol
If any one wants a broken 8in 8 out midi interface, you can have one for free if you are willing to pick it up. 99% sure it's the internal power regulator.

Errrm back to the original post, not really my bag but keep at it and I'm sure you'll get to where you want to be given time no matter how untalented you or others think you are. You just need a lot of drive, passion and keep an open mind to everything

Thank you for your valueable comments, i have learned a lot from these comments, also reiterating my knowledge on harmony, things are much clear now...it's like i've forgotten it due to my disorganized projects!
I'm now organized, and im making pretty cool stuff now, using my ears A LOT more, and just sequencing away :P getting more positive reactions actually.

Thank you guys, feel free to email djpaggos@gmail.com or msn talarone@live.com ...i love meeting new musicians, and friends.

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Quote Paggos:

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Thank you for your valueable comments, i have learned a lot from these comments, also reiterating my knowledge on harmony, things are much clear now...it's like i've forgotten it due to my disorganized projects!
I'm now organized, and im making pretty cool stuff now, using my ears A LOT more, and just sequencing away :P getting more positive reactions actually.

Thank you guys, feel free to email djpaggos@gmail.com or msn talarone@live.com ...i love meeting new musicians, and friends.

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That's a great attitude. I didn't realise you were 17 ... christ you should have heard some of my tracks at that age haha

Scrapped it, made this http://soundcloud.com/paggos/avalanche-yeti but im going to tweak it some more, just wanted to update you guys

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Quote Paggos:

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Scrapped it, made this http://soundcloud.com/paggos/avalanche-yeti but im going to tweak it some more, just wanted to update you guys

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I like your stuff it's kinda whacky, reminds me of 70s video games. Keep it up.

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Ahh ha ha, ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

That's far better IMO! The sense of movement and groove is more infectious now that the timing is sharper. You keep things moving too, which helps to keep things interesting. Good job!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I thought your track Jubilant had some cool ideas in there, but there were perhaps too many and it wasn't structured. The dissonant synths towards the end didn't help to draw the uninitiated in, but with some structure and fine tuning of a couple of your synth sounds, you'd have a decent jumping off point.

On another note, my nephew has fairly severe ADHD and has been on variants of kiddy crack prescribed by so-called doctors, to no avail. A year ago he started playing guitar and writing his own songs and the change in him is immense. He's a quite well-adjusted 13 year-old today (as far as 13 year-olds can be, hehe). Good luck to you, Paggos. When I was 17, I wanted to be in Pantera and made shite like this, but today I'm making so-called wedding music for adverts. Ho hum... Stick to your guns, our kid!

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http://www.soundcloud.com/sambrox
seedy.dk

Quote Paggos:

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Scrapped it, made this http://soundcloud.com/paggos/avalanche-yeti but im going to tweak it some more, just wanted to update you guys

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Now THAT I love Paggos - keep up the good work!

Really quirky, and there's even a touch of Devo in there


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Quote Martin Walker:

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Quote Paggos:

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Scrapped it, made this http://soundcloud.com/paggos/avalanche-yeti but im going to tweak it some more, just wanted to update you guys

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Now THAT I love Paggos - keep up the good work!

Really quirky, and there's even a touch of Devo in there


Martin

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Reminds me a bit of Visage - Frequency 7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA9YrUktxDU

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote sambrox:

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When I was 17, I wanted to be in Pantera and made shite like this,

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Here's what i was doing at 17, playing guitar for this lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Zuv-jHe-4

Maybe we should start a thread on it.

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Ahh ha ha, ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

Quote stollypop:

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Quote sambrox:

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When I was 17, I wanted to be in Pantera and made shite like this,

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Here's what i was doing at 17, playing guitar for this lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Zuv-jHe-4

Maybe we should start a thread on it.

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Great idea. I'm sure we've all got skeletons in the closet...

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http://www.soundcloud.com/sambrox
seedy.dk

Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's funny how one thing (organizing) changed everything quality wise...and it sounds more 'organized' rather than clumsy. Anyway, i appreciate it.

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Quote Paggos:

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Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's funny how one thing (organizing) changed everything quality wise...and it sounds more 'organized' rather than clumsy. Anyway, i appreciate it.

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Hey Paggos, please bear in mind that alot of the dudes ripping into you and taking the p*ss on P.1 (and then telling you off for protesting about it) can't actually walk the talk and don't have the bottle to stick their own stuff up.

It would be good if they did as me and my chums would have a happy afternoon taking the p**s out of them.

The music industry is full of bull5hitters pal. There's perhaps only 10 peeps on here that can actually 'do it'.

Rule number 1: Take no heed of what anyone says until you've heard their chops. Or just ask them if they're a full member of PRS.

That usually shuts them up.

Quote Niaeve (sic) Newbie:

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Quote Paggos:

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Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's funny how one thing (organizing) changed everything quality wise...and it sounds more 'organized' rather than clumsy. Anyway, i appreciate it.

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Hey Paggos, please bear in mind that alot of the dudes ripping into you and taking the p*ss on P.1 (and then telling you off for protesting about it) can't actually walk the talk and don't have the bottle to stick their own stuff up.

It would be good if they did as me and my chums would have a happy afternoon taking the p**s out of them.

The music industry is full of bull5hitters pal. There's perhaps only 10 peeps on here that can actually 'do it'.

Rule number 1: Take no heed of what anyone says until you've heard their chops. Or just ask them if they're a full member of PRS.

That usually shuts them up.

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What's a full member? I've been a member of PRS since I was 19 - am I missing out on something?

p.s. I'm not being pedantic or condescending, I really want to know!!!

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http://www.soundcloud.com/sambrox
seedy.dk

Don't you know the secret handshake sam?


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Apparently not, Sir.

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http://www.soundcloud.com/sambrox
seedy.dk

Oh, the flamers weren't really a top priority, only those that left reasonable / valuable feedback, i know i'm not the best musician in the world, but some day i hope to be, and i will..because my goal is purely success, though i do it for fun...so my goals aren't as high on the totem pole.

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Full members get their statements delivered via a Securicor van.

Apparently.

My statement gets delivered with a letter of sympathy...

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote ex-reid:

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Full members get their statements delivered via a Securicor van.

Apparently.

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Particularly award-winning ones.

http://soundcloud.com/paggos/avalanche here we are, a finished product that i kinda had to compress more than wanted...eh

enjoy

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Interested in my music?
www.soundcloud.com/paggos

Quote Paggos:

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enjoy

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and i did, excellent work. You say you had to 'compress more than you wanted' i'd never have known, sounds fine.

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Ahh ha ha, ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

Just listened, Nukem Dukem is cool. Too bad John Peel is no longer with us. This kind of stuff would fit right in.

Needs more cowbell.

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'You know it's a bad role when Nic Cage passes on it.'