I sold off my last trusty old Mackie HDR24/28:8 recorder/mixing desk some time ago, in favour of recording into the box.

But now I am sort of missing the immediacy of the hard disk recorder, especially the likes of the Akai DPS24 et al.

I have had a tune swimming about my head this morning, that I thin is worth a look at. Then I sit looing at the music computer, and then think, switch on, boot up, open Cubase, Start a new project, turn on the mic pre-amp, make sure all the inputs/outputs are patched and 'live' then record.

Or buy myself a little HDD recorder again, turn on, press record - go sing the song

SO I have been looking at prices of used equipment on eBay and I have seen prices of HDD recorders hold their own and in many cases are now selling for more than last, some 30% more!

Are we seeing a rise in the popularity of HDD recorders again?

Last year I could have got a good condition TASCAM 2488 for £200 or even less, nowadays they are at least £275, and they seem to be selling. Last year I just missed an almost new KORG 3200 for £400, no chance of seeing one of those at that price again

Why are those littel 2 tracvk stereo hand held recorders selling at something like £200 for a decent one, yet a Zoom R16 sells at £290? when it is several more tracks +other functions? is it that the stereo field recorders have much better mic-pres?

Quote OneWorld:

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Then I sit looing at the music computer, and then think, switch on, boot up, open Cubase, Start a new project, turn on the mic pre-amp, make sure all the inputs/outputs are patched and 'live' then record.

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Or create a default template, set Cubase to auto-boot and wait about 1 minute to get the idea down!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote OneWorld:

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I have had a tune swimming about my head this morning

[...]

Or buy myself a little HDD recorder again, turn on, press record - go sing the song

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In that situation you probably don't mind about quality, and just want to get the idea down before you forget.

I think that's what the "voice memo" function in your mobile phone is for!

Quote chris...:

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I think that's what the "voice memo" function in your mobile phone is for!

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And some mobile phones aren't too bad quality wise. If your voice recorder sounds rubbish, try downloading an app that records in uncompressed .wav or aif.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote OneWorld:

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the Akai DPS24

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Some of those sell for more than they were originally (though it goes in phases)

Quote OneWorld:

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Are we seeing a rise in the popularity of HDD recorders again?

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Actually...

Statistically, they were never that popular. They did, however, get a lot of coverage in their day - lots of advertising (especially for the Roland and Yamaha units) so that there was a perception they were immensely possible but, in fact, they were bloody hard work to sell and didn't exactly fly off the shelves.

Compounded by the fact that someone would set off to buy one and would be persuaded (dissuaded) by some sales droid and walk out with a copy of Logic, whatever, and a bunch of audio I/Os, etc., under their arm!

But yes - a dedicated recorder with real buttons and knobs and sliders, etc., has a lot going for it. Not for everyone, of course, but for some (or many even), a simple, dedicated recording solution might be just the thing. I certainly miss my DPS24 - so immediate and tactile.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

I suppose the HDD is one of those products that will bottom out as far as sales are concerned and occupy the enthusiasts market, and therefore will stick around, like Morris Dancing, a niche market

I have been using my mobile phone which saves to .wav file but the mic is woeful

So am looking at the Zoom H1 which is looking good at only £79, and then my attention was drawn to a retailer selling refurbished Zoom R24 at £249 - so that's a recording interface, stand alone recoder that is quite portable and basic DAW transport controller too - I have the money devil on one shoulder and the money angel on the other right now!

If by chance you want portable and don't need a lot of tracks, DR-680's can be linked and they will run in sync, despite what the product literature and the corporate email say! The line and mic inputs are configured differently, and the pre's are excellent as are the converters.

There are the JoCo boxes if they have not already been mentioned.

Quote Jeraldo:

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If by chance you want portable and don't need a lot of tracks, DR-680's can be linked and they will run in sync, despite what the product literature and the corporate email say! The line and mic inputs are configured differently, and the pre's are excellent as are the converters.

There are the JoCo boxes if they have not already been mentioned.

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thanks but what for what I need a DR-680 is over-specc'd - just a recorder, USB to transfer to computer and an immediacy, I press da button and off I go. The Zoom H1 seems to do just that, in fact it seems to be in a ready to record state by default.

I did by a Fostex M8 some time ago, but before recording you had to set up a project, in additon to some more faffin about. I think I must have Attention Deficit Disorder, but I thought only kids got that!

Funny. I sold my Fostex D90s off when my big desk finally died and bought a Tascam 2488 Noe a year or so ago.
It had at in its box for all that time until I decided to stick it on Gumtree.
Got a buyer and then decided I would be better off keeping it!

I still havent used it but it did occur to me that if ever I needed to do some live stuff or if the computer died at a bad moment (theres a GOOD moment for that?) I would still be able to record.
And now there is yet another reason to keep it.
Immediacy!
So true. I seem to pend about half my available time either updating my computer, buying & learning new software or making backups rather than making music.
I think I may change my religion - become a Luddite

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!

I love my ADAT!

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My head hurts!

I sold my Fostex D108 a couple of years back, but with reluctance as I still think the D series recorders are beautifully thought out machines (with manuals that are almost certainly not the worst ever written, but probably in the top 10 of that large group).

Nowadays I have a Korg D888 specifically for live recording. It's just so much simpler to set up and to use than anything involving a laptop. Afterwards it's easy to transfer the recordings to the Mac and off we go.

CC

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Well I've stuck with physical (as opposed to 'software') recorders since my original Cassette Portastudio back in the 80's.

Currently using Tascam 788 hard disk recorder (I even have a spare one bought off eBay a few months ago for £90). I love the immediacy and the physicality of it (and I work with computers all day anyway so I need a break when I'm making music :-). I'm sure I'm probably missing out on a lot by being so old school but it works for me.

However I do record demos and ideas on an old iPad using Studiotrack (an 8 track app - there is also a 4 track version for iPhone). It allows me to bang something down really quickly using voice, guitar, keyboards... whatever and wherever.

I'm quite keen on the new Tascam DP-24... The thought of no longer having to do so much bouncing, and thus gain the ability to leave more decision to the final mix, is quite tempting. Not sure the girlfriend would be happy though...

By the way SOS please do a review of the DP-24 soon...

As stated above I just use a template in PT or Logic and it is very fast.
I also use Photobooth on my mac and just record ideas.

I used Hard disk recorders for years and did like them especially for remote recordings.

The ease of editing audio or using midi with software instruments makes it a no brainer and keeps me in the box.

At one of the studios I do use a Yamaha DMX R100 with PT and Logic because I still like my hands on the faders.
Flipping a page for input, output, aux and headphone mixes makes the workflow so fast and easy.

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Please Do Not Drink & Drive

Quote The Elf:

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Quote OneWorld:

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Then I sit looing at the music computer, and then think, switch on, boot up, open Cubase, Start a new project, turn on the mic pre-amp, make sure all the inputs/outputs are patched and 'live' then record.

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Or create a default template, set Cubase to auto-boot and wait about 1 minute to get the idea down!

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+1!

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madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt

Or put Reaper on your laptop and wait five seconds for it to open a template, plug in mic and record.

Quote The Red Bladder:

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Or put Reaper on your laptop and wait five seconds for it to open a template, plug in mic and record.

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I was including the wait for Windows to boot in my 'one minute'!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote Tomás Mulcahy:

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Quote The Elf:

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Quote OneWorld:

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Then I sit looing at the music computer, and then think, switch on, boot up, open Cubase, Start a new project, turn on the mic pre-amp, make sure all the inputs/outputs are patched and 'live' then record.

---

Or create a default template, set Cubase to auto-boot and wait about 1 minute to get the idea down!

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+1!

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I did just that, create a template. But then thought hmmm, I want to include Reason in this setup (of course not avaialable on a HDD) and I tried to write a bit of a batch file so the computer would boot and Cubase, and then Reason. But Reason has to wait a bit until Cubase loads the plugins and Rewire is activated etc

Suffice it to say, the Cubase only template worked, but when I added Reason, it brought the batch file to a halt as Reason wanted to load before Cubase had finished, even though I tried to write a WAIT into the batch file. And now of course I'm not comparing like with like when I compare 'work state' is acheived on computer vs HDD

Right now the decision is between the Zoom H1 or R24, even though the R24 is a 24 track recorder (ok only 8 simultaneous inputs) it is portable enough to live on the coffee table and be there waiting as my next masterpiece is reeled off when the adverts come on tele and the guitar is to hand.

But as I say, I see the prices of HDDs going up, yet if they were never so popular, why is it the prices are going up?

I tried Reaper - it crashed and the workflow didn't suit me, it might be the Silver Bullet for some but it just didn't shake my tree

I've been using Cubase for many years, but have still kept my old Roland 1680, mainly for the reliability and portability. It's an old standby that I wouldn't be without, and I've developed a whole host of strategies to enable me to record live bands with only 8 inputs.

That said, I've also still got my TRS8, Tascam 424, Korg Pandora and Akai 4000DS (all in working order...).

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"We knocked on the doors of Hell's darker chambers..." But no-one answered, so we went to the pub instead.

Quote OneWorld:

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Quote Tomás Mulcahy:

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Quote The Elf:

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Quote OneWorld:

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Then I sit looing at the music computer, and then think, switch on, boot up, open Cubase, Start a new project, turn on the mic pre-amp, make sure all the inputs/outputs are patched and 'live' then record.

---

Or create a default template, set Cubase to auto-boot and wait about 1 minute to get the idea down!

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+1!

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I did just that, create a template. But then thought hmmm, I want to include Reason in this setup...

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Then you're overcomplicating things. You want a simple load to let you get down an idea, but you're making it all too complex. After all, how will a standalone recorder let you use Reason?!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Greetings,

Gotta tell ya. I love my Alesis HD24 recorder. That's as far as I'm going digital.The hd24 is the closest to a tape sound.Of course a great analog board with great sound and warm tube pre's does it justice. I'll just die being a hard disk and occasionly still using tape dinosaur.

I had a little bit of a strop earlier in the year and nearly went back to an all-analogue setup before coming to my senses. With a bit of planning and organisation, you can make a DAW workflow infinitely quicker than any hardware setup. Reaper in particular is superbly customisable and allows you to create an environment where things default to your preferred way of working.

Good controllers can make all the difference in creating an instantaneous workflow.

Many new Sandy/Ivy Bridge motherboards feature an accelerated boot option, which combined with a decent SSD results in boot times of under 5 seconds. My current audio PC boots into Reaper faster than a JoeCo Blackbox.

Quote uphillbothways:

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I had a little bit of a strop earlier in the year and nearly went back to an all-analogue setup before coming to my senses. With a bit of planning and organisation, you can make a DAW workflow infinitely quicker than any hardware setup. Reaper in particular is superbly customisable and allows you to create an environment where things default to your preferred way of working.

Good controllers can make all the difference in creating an instantaneous workflow.

Many new Sandy/Ivy Bridge motherboards feature an accelerated boot option, which combined with a decent SSD results in boot times of under 5 seconds. My current audio PC boots into Reaper faster than a JoeCo Blackbox.

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The thread wasn't meant to be a HDD vs DAW discussion but merely I had noticed the HDRs prices seem to be rising and I wondered why.

Reaper, what a dog's dinner, it crashed on me, and how do you deal with patch name scripts in Reaper? I use Cubase and it is easy peasy

5 second boot time, could you point me to a web site where I can see this in action as boot time from pressing the on button to a shovel ready desktop in 5 secs would seriously interest me. Have had a mooch round the web and cannot find anything near that.

I came across some sites where people have got specific versions of Linux Ubuntu up and running in 8 secs but nothing else comes near that, BIOS takes almost 5 secs before owt else happens

Quote hollowsun:

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Quote OneWorld:

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the Akai DPS24

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Some of those sell for more than they were originally (though it goes in phases)

Quote OneWorld:

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Are we seeing a rise in the popularity of HDD recorders again?

---

Actually...

Statistically, they were never that popular. They did, however, get a lot of coverage in their day - lots of advertising (especially for the Roland and Yamaha units) so that there was a perception they were immensely possible but, in fact, they were bloody hard work to sell and didn't exactly fly off the shelves.

Compounded by the fact that someone would set off to buy one and would be persuaded (dissuaded) by some sales droid and walk out with a copy of Logic, whatever, and a bunch of audio I/Os, etc., under their arm!

But yes - a dedicated recorder with real buttons and knobs and sliders, etc., has a lot going for it. Not for everyone, of course, but for some (or many even), a simple, dedicated recording solution might be just the thing. I certainly miss my DPS24 - so immediate and tactile.

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I don't know if that's true, i used to sell a lot of digital porta studio's when i was at tascam. 2488, dp02, dp004, dp008 were all popular and that was only a couple of years ago. Admittedly they were going down in popularity but sometimes there would be a slight resurgence in them, especially in the summer.

cheers

Gary

Im sticking with DPS24--it all depends on needs but to most a simple Computer app works on all levels seeing as its as complicated as you want to make it. Personally I like to move faders etc by hand and quality of most HD stand alones are very good--and are very tempting at current prices

I was looking at the AKAI DSP-24 but sadly they stopped making them, thus went for in the box solution. If it is something small you like to have, no frills maybe the Korg D888.

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www.descentintomadness.com

Quote 4TrackMadman:

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I was looking at the AKAI DSP-24 but sadly they stopped making them, thus went for in the box solution. If it is something small you like to have, no frills maybe the Korg D888.

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I ending up buying the Zoom R24, it's great, runs 4 hours on batteries, 24 track, built in mikes, even built in loop player and works as a basic control surface if I connect it to the computer. Best thing is, within about 5 seconds of pressing the on button, it is record ready

Quote IvanSC:

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So true. I seem to pend about half my available time either updating my computer, buying & learning new software or making backups rather than making music.
I think I may change my religion - become a Luddite

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That's my bone with DAW, I recently ditche XP and went to Win7, the tortuous route to re-activation of software, then updates and all that palava just makes me think, surely, we have put a man on the moon, can't we make a computer which has a boot time in single figures

I still use my KORG D32XD for all of my recording, then transfer to cubase 6 for mixing. I did try to explain why but the sentence became a paragraph which will turn into a page, I cannot be bothered to explain, just trust me.

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www.thespell.co.uk

Quote OneWorld:

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I ending up buying the Zoom R24, it's great, runs 4 hours on batteries, 24 track, built in mikes, even built in loop player and works as a basic control surface if I connect it to the computer. Best thing is, within about 5 seconds of pressing the on button, it is record ready

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Nice! I've been eyeing the R8, but think I'll struggle along with an iPad a while longer.

Quote Goddard:

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Quote OneWorld:

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I ending up buying the Zoom R24, it's great, runs 4 hours on batteries, 24 track, built in mikes, even built in loop player and works as a basic control surface if I connect it to the computer. Best thing is, within about 5 seconds of pressing the on button, it is record ready

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Nice! I've been eyeing the R8, but think I'll struggle along with an iPad a while longer.

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They're great, just the thing for when you might be noodling away on the geetar or whatever and there's that inspired moment when you think, that's passable, I could work on that. Transfer it to the computer and for me, it helps the flow. I was going to get an X32 or a 2488 but not as portable as I needed

Quote OneWorld:

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Quote Goddard:

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Quote OneWorld:

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I ending up buying the Zoom R24, it's great, runs 4 hours on batteries, 24 track, built in mikes, even built in loop player and works as a basic control surface if I connect it to the computer. Best thing is, within about 5 seconds of pressing the on button, it is record ready

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Nice! I've been eyeing the R8, but think I'll struggle along with an iPad a while longer.

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They're great, just the thing for when you might be noodling away on the geetar or whatever and there's that inspired moment when you think, that's passable, I could work on that. Transfer it to the computer and for me, it helps the flow. I was going to get an X32 or a 2488 but not as portable as I needed

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Hey that reminds me, I think I still have my Zoom old PS-02 (palmtop studio) boxed away in storage somewhere. They basically took their 9002 fx unit and added smart card recording and rhythm programming. It was very usable as a sketchpad, built-in mic too, with a bunch of sound sets. Lo-fi by today's standard, but easy to get ideas down with and not too difficult to program. No computer connection, but could export/import sounds and rhythm tracks on the media cards. PS-04 had even more features. Distant ancestors of the R series (and MRS, etc). Zoom have always been rather clever!

I have used a HD 16 track recorder (Fostex VF16) since 2004 and have no intention of moving to PC based recording for now, though it might happen sometime. i later added a second unit and slaved them, giveing me a 32 track capability, more than enough!

See I spend all day at a PC workstation for the dayjob, so took a conscious positive decision to go for a dedicated recorder with physical buttons that say 'record' and 'Play' etc and that i can stand up at to operate and play an instrument, and not to spend my precious music making time sat at a PC workstation.

Sure there are many limitations, just depends how you make music and especially what genre i guess, but works for me for the present.

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I will say it again...SCREENS!!!!...no , not you nurse! I don't like staring at screens, I want to use my ears. Hard disk, non screen recorders allow me the joy of using one sense...hearing! (Ok touch is involved but you get my drift). Dave

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My head hurts!

Re. Praise for the Zoom R24: Yep, the R16 floats my boat for the same reasons... Record on the R16, mix in Reaper. Job's a good un. It's almost too easy really.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.