The pre-amps are essentially Midas quality, and the converters performed very well, as my review made plain. Yamaha will be very worried because the X32 is at least as good, and less than half the price!

I'd consider this desk seriously for studio recording, and it's a no-brainer for live sound in HoW, clubs or stadia!

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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The press are essentially Midas quality, and the converters performed very well, as my review made plain. Yamaha will be very worried because the X32 is at least as good, and less than half the price!

I'd consider this desk seriously for studio recording, and it's a no-brainer for live sound in HoW, clubs or stadia!

H

---

I wasn't really commenting on the pres at all actually. What makes this not a no-brainer for myself and many others is the name attached and the reputation they have obtained for lack of reliability and shady business practices. Both of which matter tremendously, and especially if I am consulting on a system design for anyone. Even if it sounds great, unless it is very stable and very reliable it means I won't touch it in a client's system, and frankly Behringer haven't proven yet that they are capable of making something like that to me.

Seablade

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

The press are essentially Midas quality, and the converters performed very well, as my review made plain. Yamaha will be very worried because the X32 is at least as good, and less than half the price!

I'd consider this desk seriously for studio recording, and it's a no-brainer for live sound in HoW, clubs or stadia!

H

---

WOW, this says a lot Hugh. With you owning the Yamaha DM 1000 you should know.

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revelationsoundstudio.com

Quote seablade:

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What makes this not a no-brainer for myself and many others is the name attached and the reputation they have obtained for lack of reliability and shady business practices. Both of which matter tremendously, and especially if I am consulting on a system design for anyone. Even if it sounds great, unless it is very stable and very reliable it means I won't touch it in a client's system, and frankly Behringer haven't proven yet that they are capable of making something like that to me.

Seablade

---

All very good points and well made. Only time will tell as far as reliability is concerned, but the feedback from all the beta testers -- much of which has been posted online -- and my own experiences of the thing bode pretty well. I'm very much looking forward to reading what Mike Crofts thinks about the console after using it on his gigs.

As for the more political and ethical aspects of your concerns, can I suggest you put those questions to Uli behringer himself during the live Q&A he will be taking part in here next Friday?

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Glenn Bucci:

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WOW, this says a lot Hugh. With you owning the Yamaha DM 1000 you should know.

---

I still have and use regularly my DM1000. But let's not forget that was launched nearly ten years ago, and the world of converter technology has moved on and DSP and manufacturing costs have come down.

I won't be trading in my DM1000 for an X32 -- there are things that the Yamaha does that I use a lot which the X32 can't do. But if I was looking for a digital desk today, the X32 would feature at the top of my comparison list.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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The pre-amps are essentially Midas quality, and the converters performed very well, as my review made plain.

---

I'd be very interested to know how it performs compared to the Midas Pro2 then (Midas' cheapest digital mixer at £20k retail). I used that desk recently, and it's by far and away the best sounding digital desk I've ever used.

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

I've not had my hands on a Pro 2, but I've read favourable comparisons on t'interweb from those that have.

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Is this Behringer's 'Skoda' moment?

BTW I still meet people who say that wouldn't buy one because it's a Skoda.

Mr B probably has a big mountain to climb...

I think the proof of the pudding....blah blah! It will be a little like upgrading your OS...holding back until any issues have been ironed out....and that is what I shall do! Dave

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My head hurts!

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Quote Glenn Bucci:

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WOW, this says a lot Hugh. With you owning the Yamaha DM 1000 you should know.

---

I still have and use regularly my DM1000. But let's not forget that was launched nearly ten years ago, and the world of converter technology has moved on and DSP and manufacturing costs have come down.

I won't be trading in my DM1000 for an X32 -- there are things that the Yamaha does that I use a lot which the X32 can't do. But if I was looking for a digital desk today, the X32 would feature at the top of my comparison list.

Hugh

---

Though the Yamaha mixer is 10 years old, it seems to still hold its own against newer digital mixers. Where the X32 seems to shine over the Yamaha is more dedicated controls. More dedicated controls on a larger mixer would be more helpful to use especially for live applications.

The one downside of the X32 is you only have one mic pre gain control for all the channels. On the Yamaha or even Tascam mixers, you have dedicated gain controls for each channel. If your getting feedback from a channel because the mic is a little to hot, you can't just grab the gain of the pre quickly and reduce it a bit. You would first have to select the channel you need to reduce and then adjust the pre gain.

Though the X32 appears to be a great digital mixer for live use, I am not sure how benifical a digital mixer would be over the DAW in a studio situation. The DAW's today have much improved effects, and work flow compared to 10 years ago. The digital effects on the best digital mixers are not better than what Logic, Cubase, etc have to offer. Not to mention the more analog sounding effects from third party company's like Waves, and UAD. We have enough computer power today that you don't have to worry about running out of CPU power with plug in's.

I will say this though, as a former Behringer DDX owner, working with the effects of a digital mixer and using the other features, gives you a feeling that your working with a mixer. When using my Mackie Controller Pro and Expander with Cubase, I still feel I am working with a software program. So I found more enjoyment using the effects and capabilities of my digital mixer over using my DAW even if the workflow in the DAW was a little faster. The way I worked, I would route all my channels from my DAW into my digital mixer and use all the effects and features of the mixer. I would save the effect settings for each song and open them up again when I went back into the song. It was a lot of fun. I felt my studio had a heart and not just a computer with software. Plus you stay in digital when going from your DAW to your mixer.

There is one complaint I have with the X32; there are no higher sample rates. When you don't have high end converters, being able to go up to 88 and 96 can really improve the sound of your recordings especially in the high end. We have enough hardware power to give the X32 that capability. However it seems they wanted to keep the mixer at a price point, so to kthing he price down, they did not include this. Granted when I use my Apogee Rosetta I usually record in 48 unless I have a classical or simple acoustic set. But some how I don't think the X32 converters will be on par with my Apogee.

A suggestion would be to come out next year with a X32 Plus that offers the higher sample rate and a meter bridge that could be added to the back of the unit. If they offered this, I might be very tempted to sell some of my recording gear and just work with the X32. Though I will still need some UAD plug ins like the Studer, and my Waves V, API, and SSL series plug ins.

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revelationsoundstudio.com

Edited by Glenn Bucci (26/07/12 12:13 PM)

Quote Glenn Bucci:

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The one downside of the X32 is you only have one mic pre gain control for all the channels. On the Yamaha or even Tascam mixers, you have dedicated gain controls for each channel.

---

I think there's only a dedicated knob per channel on those two desks because their preamp gains are directly controlled by those knobs i.e. they aren't recallable. On a live digital desk, recallable gains are much more important, particularly when dealing with a multi-band lineup. I'm not sure I can think of any current high end digital desk that doesn't have recallable gains. And to be honest, hitting a channel select button on the way to reaching the single gain knob really doesn't take any more time.

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There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies

Quote Sheriton:

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Quote Glenn Bucci:

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The one downside of the X32 is you only have one mic pre gain control for all the channels. On the Yamaha or even Tascam mixers, you have dedicated gain controls for each channel.

---

I think there's only a dedicated knob per channel on those two desks because their preamp gains are directly controlled by those knobs i.e. they aren't recallable. On a live digital desk, recallable gains are much more important, particularly when dealing with a multi-band lineup. I'm not sure I can think of any current high end digital desk that doesn't have recallable gains. And to be honest, hitting a channel select button on the way to reaching the single gain knob really doesn't take any more time.

---

Depends on the desk. Preamp levels aren't recallable for instance on the iLive, but TRIM levels are(Gotta double check if that has changed in a recent firmware but I don't think it has). The standard PM5D doesn't have recallable preamps, but the RH model does. M7CL doesn't, etc.

The iLive on the other hand you can set the preamps to the rotary encoders for the channels, and I haven't tested this, but it is conceivable you could save that, and pan on rotaries, into two different scenes, and use a softkey to swap between them. Would want to test it, but personally other than my initial level set when I don't get a sound check, I can't think of a case where I would want that.

So it also depends on what you consider high end as well:)

Seablade

Quote Glenn Bucci:

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The one downside of the X32 is you only have one mic pre gain control for all the channels. On the Yamaha or even Tascam mixers, you have dedicated gain controls for each channel.

---

Though I think grabable gains would be nice - another problem is as there are banks of 16 faders for the 32 channels either you would need two rows of gains ( probably more error prone) or motorised pots that switch with the channel banks - which would add to the costs. Perhaps the Ipad ( android???? hopefully in the near future) app will let you view and adjust all the gains on the fly??!!!!!

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Nick

Edited by N.icholas (26/07/12 03:29 PM)

Quote seablade:

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The standard PM5D doesn't have recallable preamps, but the RH model does. M7CL doesn't, etc.

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Erm...the M7CL does have recallable preamps. If your's doesn't then it's broken, or you're using a very old firmware.

I've never had a problem with selecting a channel to alter preamp gains. It really isn't that much slower.

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www.exaviormusic.com
www.manninmusic.com Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Quote Exavior Music:

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Quote seablade:

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The standard PM5D doesn't have recallable preamps, but the RH model does. M7CL doesn't, etc.

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Erm...the M7CL does have recallable preamps. If your's doesn't then it's broken, or you're using a very old firmware.

I've never had a problem with selecting a channel to alter preamp gains. It really isn't that much slower.

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Hmm you are correct on the M7, not sure why I remembered as that not having recallable pres.

Seablade

Quote Glenn Bucci:

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Though the Yamaha mixer is 10 years old, it seems to still hold its own against newer digital mixers.

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It was a very capable design when it was launched, and other modesl are stillc atching up in some respects... but it was very expensive then and still is now!

Quote:

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Where the X32 seems to shine over the Yamaha is more dedicated controls. More dedicated controls on a larger mixer would be more helpful to use especially for live applications.

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Absolutely -- but it is a much large desk, physcially, allowing space for more hands-on controls. Similarly, the larger 02R96 and DM2000 have more physical controls becuase they can. The DM1000 was desigend to fit in a 19-inch rack space, which restricts panel space somewhat!

Quote:

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The one downside of the X32 is you only have one mic pre gain control for all the channels. On the Yamaha or even Tascam mixers, you have dedicated gain controls for each channel. If your getting feedback from a channel because the mic is a little to hot, you can't just grab the gain of the pre quickly and reduce it a bit.

---

No, but you can pull the fader down to cure the squeal, and then when you have control, slectt he channel and tweak the gain. Better still, you could squeak the system out before hand to make sure you always have some safe gain in hand! I don't think this is a significant issue in practice, and the only reason there are physical gain controls on those mixers is because they aren't automated and assignable as that complicates the circuitry.

Quote:

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Though the X32 appears to be a great digital mixer for live use, I am not sure how benifical a digital mixer would be over the DAW in a studio situation.

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Some people like working with consoles -- it makes setting up artist cue mixes much easier for a start! And with the promised direct recording module I can see some of the old school persuasion who would enjoy working with the X32 and recording straight to a hard drive -- much more immediate in some ways than mousing around a computer! You could still use a DAW for mixing if you wanted to mess around editing and heavily post-producing the audio, but for simple tracking, overdubbing and mixing, I think some will enjoy working with the X32 as an all-in-one solution.

Quote:

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There is one complaint I have with the X32; there are no higher sample rates.

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Yes, it is a slightly odd decision and I raised that with the men from Behringer. Not only would higher sample rates allay the concerns of the bat-eared folks, but it would inherently reduce the analogue-analogue latency -- which is a significant issue in live sound applications. However, the basic reason is that the console's DSP isn't capable of it, and the designers felt they had already achieved class-leading latency anyway, so hoigher rates weren't deemed necessary for the primary live sound market. I can see the logic in their arguments... and it leaves the door open for an X32 plus or an X64 enhanced version in a year or so, as you say!

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Hugh,
How do you think other manufacturers will respond if the x32 works out as good as your initial analysis? Will they try and compete at the same feature/price /quality(?) level or just rely on their brand name to maintain higher prices. I suppose even if the x32 is a game changer it will ae a considerable time for those who deride behringer to even consider changing their opinion and riders may for along time still specify "no behringer". I suppose to continue the Mike's analogy Skoda has not made any significant impact onthose who are willing to pay more for a similar specification/quality/performance because of the brand namt. I often get the impression that within the "pro" aiudio world community this is often the stance - your initial opinions of the x32 In this respect are abreath of fresh air.
(Sorry about the typos - not good at editing using this tablet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

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Nick

Edited by N.icholas (26/07/12 09:18 PM)

Quote seablade:

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Quote Sheriton:

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Quote Glenn Bucci:

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The one downside of the X32 is you only have one mic pre gain control for all the channels. On the Yamaha or even Tascam mixers, you have dedicated gain controls for each channel.

---

I think there's only a dedicated knob per channel on those two desks because their preamp gains are directly controlled by those knobs i.e. they aren't recallable. On a live digital desk, recallable gains are much more important, particularly when dealing with a multi-band lineup. I'm not sure I can think of any current high end digital desk that doesn't have recallable gains. And to be honest, hitting a channel select button on the way to reaching the single gain knob really doesn't take any more time.

---

Depends on the desk. Preamp levels aren't recallable for instance on the iLive, but TRIM levels are(Gotta double check if that has changed in a recent firmware but I don't think it has). The standard PM5D doesn't have recallable preamps, but the RH model does. M7CL doesn't, etc.

The iLive on the other hand you can set the preamps to the rotary encoders for the channels, and I haven't tested this, but it is conceivable you could save that, and pan on rotaries, into two different scenes, and use a softkey to swap between them.

---

Perhaps I should instead have said "digitally controlled", as opposed to a normal pot directly controlling gain in the analogue signal path. As soon as you get in to multiple layers, the gain-pot-per-channel methodology breaks down. I'll grant you the original 5D but that's a very old desk now so technology has moved on a bit since then. With the iLive, all the magic happens in the stagebox rather than in the desk so their preamps have to be digitally controlled; I'd be astonished if they weren't recallable too.

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There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies

Quote Sheriton:

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Perhaps I should instead have said "digitally controlled", as opposed to a normal pot directly controlling gain in the analogue signal path. As soon as you get in to multiple layers, the gain-pot-per-channel methodology breaks down. I'll grant you the original 5D but that's a very old desk now so technology has moved on a bit since then. With the iLive, all the magic happens in the stagebox rather than in the desk so their preamps have to be digitally controlled; I'd be astonished if they weren't recallable too.

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As I said, TRIM definitely is. I don't think the preamp is, I know I ran into cases recently where everything in the channel strip was added to a scene, but the preamp didn't recall, nasty shock going into an acoustic set on a hotpatch show.

Quote iLive Manual:

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Note: The Mic Preamps are not part of the Input Channel Processing. This is because they are not permanently associated with the channels. They can be patched to different combinations of channels and used for other signals such as external inputs and insert returns.

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Don't have the console in front of me, it may be that they have all preamps as a single setting in that case actually, would have to check. Pretty much more than one channel can be dependant on a single preamp, so if you add only one of those channels to a scene, and it did recall the preamp, technically it would change all channels, thus the problem. On the iLive Channel != Preamp. TRIM on the other hand is per channel so that is always programmable.

So it is both more and less powerful at the same time:) In general I would say more powerful though, think about it, how often are you going to recall preamp levels on a channel in the middle of a show without requiring a hotpatch in the show? In those rare cases where you would want to, wouldn't TRIM do exactly what you want if you set your gain structure correctly?

Seablade

EDIT: Fairly certain I can still purchase new PM5Ds (Non-RH) as well:) Again haven't checked with a supplier but a quick glance around does suggest this.

I have been dissecting Hugh's review, reading between the lines, and reading the information Behringer has made available on this digital mixer. It has made me seriously think about selling some of my gear (including my converters) and just jump forward with the X32 for my studio.

Why you ask?

As I stated above, I used to have a digital mixer (Behringer DDX) in my studio in the past. As someone in their late 40's who started out with analog mixers and recording to tape, the work flow and feel of a mixer gives a more intimate feeling than just using a software package for recording, even if you have a Mackie controller. My studio has also taken a turn as my life has changed. I no longer want to record unknown people at my house for hours while my children are upstairs who can't spend time with thier dad. As I focus on just recording my music, including along with my boys, I want my studio to be more fun. Not working a mouse to add plug ins, and adjusting settings, but by moving knobs on a mixer to get to the same destination. Granted I will still use some of my favorite plug ins, but I would say up to 80 percent could be done on the digital mixer. I would also still use my Manley and Portico pre's to go into the Behringer as well.

What got me to sell my Behringer DDX in the past was the low quality pre's, and converters. They were not up to the standards that I expected in my studio. If the pre's and converters on the X32 are at the Midas level, the quality of the recordings should be good enough to obtain a semi professional level. The only thing that bothers me is being limited to 44/48. Sample rates have been discussed in detail at SOS and every where else. There is a little more air and detail in the high end when you use the higher sample rates. Also many plug ins were designed to sound best at the higher sample rates. With that being said, if you have high end converters such as Apogee or Benchmark, I found the lower sample rates still offered great sounding recordings (especially rock). If your converters are at a lower level such as the older RME or Presonus, you can really benifit from using the higher sample rates. I have not heard the converters of the X32, but if they are as good as the Yamaha DM 1000, I think I perhaps I could be content with them. I think depending on how the sales are on the X32 will determine if Behringer wishes to come out with a X64 machine that will go up to 96 and perhaps offer one or two extra options for studio use.

Edited by Glenn Bucci (30/07/12 02:39 PM)

Please note that both the date and forum location of this event have been changed, for reasons beyond our control. Apologies for any disappointment! We are awaiting a new date from The Music Group and will post the information here as soon as it becomes available.

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

I'm really happy with my StudioLive 24.4.2 and 16.0.2 iPad mixing, multitrack recording. I just can't get over the Behringer name. I'd hate for a show to go down because of the unproven quality. In the studio, you postpone and then continue working. At a gig, there's only one take. It has to work. Your name is on the line.


My next planned upgrade (if Presonus doesn't introduce a 32CH mixer in the future) would be an A&H GLD.


That's just me though. I don't agree with their past business practices, so I'll vote with my wallet.

Quote robare99:

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I'm really happy with my StudioLive 24.4.2 and 16.0.2 iPad mixing, multitrack recording. I just can't get over the Behringer name. I'd hate for a show to go down because of the unproven quality. In the studio, you postpone and then continue working. At a gig, there's only one take. It has to work. Your name is on the line.


My next planned upgrade (if Presonus doesn't introduce a 32CH mixer in the future) would be an A&H GLD.


That's just me though. I don't agree with their past business practices, so I'll vote with my wallet.

---

I second this. It may be a game changer, but after I had problems with board transformers before, I won't trust the name anymore. The only other thing I will get as far as digital boards go would be the Soundcraft Si or something similar.

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Ice Cold Entertainment DJ/Live Sound Services Ashland, KY, USA
Coming Soon: Presonus 32.4.2AI, QSC KW153/KW181 FOH, EV ELX Foldback

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Quote seablade:

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What makes this not a no-brainer for myself and many others is the name attached and the reputation they have obtained for lack of reliability and shady business practices. Both of which matter tremendously, and especially if I am consulting on a system design for anyone. Even if it sounds great, unless it is very stable and very reliable it means I won't touch it in a client's system, and frankly Behringer haven't proven yet that they are capable of making something like that to me.

Seablade

---

All very good points and well made. Only time will tell as far as reliability is concerned, but the feedback from all the beta testers -- much of which has been posted online -- and my own experiences of the thing bode pretty well. I'm very much looking forward to reading what Mike Crofts thinks about the console after using it on his gigs.

As for the more political and ethical aspects of your concerns, can I suggest you put those questions to Uli behringer himself during the live Q&A he will be taking part in here next Friday?

Hugh

---

I'm siding with the naysayers (?) on this one - owned a DDX3216, purchased for the very same reasons given for owning the new range of Behringer. Started getting odd desk glitches, firmware basically bugging out - took it back to the store, they replaced the complete uP and accompanying circuitry... a few months later... funnies are back without the Arnie accent!!

Sold it and bought an 01V96 - have not looked back since...

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C.LYDE
http://soundcloud.com/c-lyde

Seems like Behringer still have a mountain to climb in terms of reliability, or to be more precise - perceived unreliability. I was a beta-tester for B'inger, in so much I was so taken by reviews and the low prices that I would rush out and buy their products as soon as they rolled off the production line.

Amongst other B'inger products I bought the DDX3216, it was ok'ish but didn't live up to expectations garnered from the reviews, and there were minor faults that developed that I could live with but would rather not have them there at all as you end up sort of living with the technical equivalent of the Sword of Damocles hanging over you.

I do like the look of the X32 and am looking to upgrade my Tascam DM24, which (touch wood, crossed fingers etc) hasn't developed the lines on the LCD, but I know it's only a matter of time. So I suppose that puts the DM24 in the same category as the DDX3216, good but has generic problems lurking within that could at any time go pop

I have to say, way back in the day, I had an old mx8000 which although had a 'hum' when the volume was wound right up to the max, was otherwise perfectly reliable.

The only B'inger equipment I had that never expired on me was a patchbay!

With Berhinger having their own building (as well as apartments for the employees), total control on hiring and quality control, they don't have the issues that some other company's do. The problem is the quality of the products. You can have people do a job in a air condtioned building but if the componentes are low quality garbage what difference will it make? I see Behringer focusing after the younger kids who don't have much money for guitar effects and studio gear. They make cheap gear but the quality for its price category is decent. But with cheap gear the low quality components wont last long. No one has even been concern buying a Boss pedal and wondering if it will last another year but with Behringer you always do. I saw them as only making horrible gear but around the time they cane out with the DDX3216 they started to improve. Granted they have now improved their mixers agaiin since the Invisible pres were on them, and they improved their headphone mixer specs. However the ability for these products to last is not there. It's cheaper to replace it than actually reppair it. How about also coming out with headphones of better quality and not just cheap.

My suggestion is to start making all of your products on the same level as Mackie or Soundcraft. Their products will cost more money but their reputation will go up as well as sales.

Now that they bought out Midas and the X32 having improved pre's, converters and effects, I see this as a turn in the right direction. I would have a Behringer Pro Gear catagory and start coming out with much improved components for this gear. The X32 would be the first one in this catagory. Then start using the same pres and Midas Eq's for some decent analog mixers and then including other gear including a decent pair of headphones. Start putting a little thicker wiring in your cheaper gear, better switches and transformers. You could really change the perception of Behringer in the audio world.

I believe Behringer is taking steps in the right direction and with knowing they are using Midas components means the quality of the product is moving up. As I already saw the videos of their plant in China, the conditions for the employees, and good training. These hurdles have already overcome. They should be proud of their products compared to what they were 20 years ago. Continue moving in this direction. Personally I would be glad to be a X32 owner. With quality components being used, all the other aspets of their manufacturing is already good so I would not have a concern.

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revelationsoundstudio.com

Edited by Glenn Bucci (04/08/12 12:38 PM)

SweetWater in the States expects shipments of the X32 next month. I may be getting one in several months to try out.

First to see how it would work with my church setup and if this would be a good option to replace the 48 channel Mackie board they have.
Second to see how it sounds and works in project studio. A little A/B testing against my Apogee's as well.

It's not the best of starts for this one, is it?

After all the buzz, the chat on various fora, and a countdown on the Behringer website heralding a release date on 27th July, no actual units appear to be available, anywhere.
Ask any UK retailer and they will say that they don't know when they'll be getting it.

The only people that would know the answer to this are Behringer and they have been decidedly quiet on the matter. In fact, Uli and his team became mysteriously unavailable for a web chat last week. Coincidence? Or did they simply not want to face a barrage of "where's the desk I ordered?" type questions from concerned cusomters?

I can understand the manual being web based. That makes sense, if it's to be a living document.
The desk itself is ready, as if you have read the SoundForums thread, a guy called Christian has been gigging successfully with it for the past few months. I don't buy this 'one more update before we ship it' malarkey. If it's software, put it on the website and let the users update it at their convenience. It's not as if the desk won't work without it, as SOS and a few other publications have reviewed it and Christian has been gigging successfully...etc, etc.

And now, if the latest info is to be believed (re the SoundForums thread), DV247 estimate 3-4 months before it comes into stock. Pretty poor, considering the desk was 'released' in July. Who exactly was it released to then? I don't want Behringer to provide numbers about how many units they've shipped and to which wholesale supplier. It's a simple question. When will this desk be in the shops?

That hasn't stopped everyone putting £300 on the price though. Supply and demand? Bollards!
What's the betting that a computer glitch wipes all the worldwide pre-orders so that customers have to re-order at the new price?

The cynical part of me suspects that the delays will creep on into next year, to round about April time, when someone stands up and says "April Fool. The whole industry was in on it, from the beta testers to the magazine reviewers. We really fooled you. A GLD/LS9 spec desk for less than an O1v96? We really got you there, didn't we?"

</cynicism>
</rant>

Stu.

Hi Stu,

Hmm, call me silly but I see parallels with the BCA2000 AI. It was a LOT of AI for the money and when it worked it worked extremely well.
For those that have never seen one it was 2 decent mic pres, a good HZ input, a good limiter and noise gate. MIDI in, out and thru! Two headphone feeds and a comprehensive monitor controller with dim mono and mute plus ADAT! and all sub £200. The original drivers were ***t (for which I shall never really forgive SoS!) and the things just kept going wrong.

I strongly suspect that B's realized that they could never make the thing "properly" and turn a profit.

Dave.

Quote mpostor:

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After all the buzz, the chat on various fora, and a countdown on the Behringer website heralding a release date on 27th July, no actual units appear to be available, anywhere.
Ask any UK retailer and they will say that they don't know when they'll be getting it.

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To be fair, the same is generally true of any physically large and high value new product. There is an initial production run of a relatively small number of units for beta testers, reviewers and top level dealers. Added to which, Behringer would be mad if they didn't wait to see what kind of reaction they are getting from dealers and potential customers before ramping up full production. And of course, high street shops don't tend to carry lots of big consoles in stock -- this kind of product would alway be an order-in for the majority of shops.

As it happens, Uli mentioned to me at the start of the week that he was currently in China overseeing the production of the X32 as the factory was ramping up production to 10,000 units a month -- which is way beyond anything they had originally planned and was on the back of an unprecedented number of pre-orders.

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In fact, Uli and his team became mysteriously unavailable for a web chat last week.

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Yes... that was extremely annoying for us and embarassing for them, but there was a reasonably reasonable explanation... which was basically that there was a communications cock-up somewhere within the Music Group empire, and that they key people who had been conscripted to take part were, in fact, in separate parts of the world! It will be rescheduled.

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I don't buy this 'one more update before we ship it' malarkey. If it's software, put it on the website and let the users update it at their convenience.

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Always a tough decision to make. If the beta testers and reviewers complain about important things that are easy to fix before release, then it's probably best to fix before shipping and tolerate a modest delay in getting it into the dealers and out to the general public -- otherwise the early user feedback will be highly critical which is likely to be far more damaging to sales than a few whinges about not having received the desk yet...

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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As it happens, Uli mentioned to me at the start of the week that he was currently in China overseeing the production of the X32 as the factory was ramping up production to 10,000 units a month -- which is way beyond anything they had originally planned and was on the back of an unprecedented number of pre-orders.

[hugh

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Knowing that Uli is in China making sure that production goes smoothly on one of the most important products his company is releasing is a good sign.

All true, but if no 'real' units are going to be with retailers until September/October, why claim to have 'released' it in July?

Stu.

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All true, but if no 'real' units are going to be with retailers until September/October, why claim to have 'released' it in July?

Stu.

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True Stu but maybe we are being a bit harsh just because of WHO it is? Marketing and Production can often live in different timeframes (and we won't even MENTION the adpuff men!).

Look at the total ballsup that was the release of Akai's EIE jobbie, and that is a tiny device compared to the X32....And there STILL is no decent spec or handbook for it. (and I am still waiting for a decent review, Ooo, naughty!).

Dave.

It appears to have hit the shops in the US now. As that's a rather larger market than we are in the UK, it makes sense. We're just a long way down the pecking order...

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There's nothing we can't face... Except for bunnies

I'm struggling to cope with this thread. The first half was people complaining about behringer reliability and folk saying the wouldn't buy an x32 because of that concern... And now folk are complaining that they can't find one in the shops!

Is it me?

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I'm struggling to cope with this thread. The first half was people complaining about behringer reliability and folk saying the wouldn't buy an x32 because of that concern... And now folk are complaining that they can't find one in the shops!

Is it me?

H

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Don't worry, I am firmly in the first group right now, and it will take a bit of work to get me into the second group;)

Seablade

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I'm struggling to cope with this thread. The first half was people complaining about behringer reliability and folk saying the wouldn't buy an x32 because of that concern... And now folk are complaining that they can't find one in the shops!

Is it me?

H

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I think it probably is...

If there is any sort of self-awareness in Behringer at all, they must know that they have a mountain to climb to persuade pros and semi-pros that they have products that are at least the equal of those from companies that have a long and respected track-record in the recording and live-sound sectors.

There is a degree of openness and willingness to be persuaded that products such as the X32 really do mark a new chapter. But inevitably people who know the industry know Behringer's track record. Thus, Behringer may be viewed more critically and with less tolerance than say, Yamaha, in a similar situation. Many UK retailers have been trailing for months that the X32 would be available at the end of July; now we're told it's delayed. Many of us welcomed the prospect of a webinar with senior people at Behringer as a sign that things perhaps really were different - but the inability of someone in the company to use calendar and diary scheduling software effectively leaves us sighing at the very least.

Some of us really do want to give Behringer another chance; at the moment it seems that Behringer are doing all they can to perpetuate their current image. Perception is reality.

My confidence with the X32 just went up after I saw this video.

4:57 on the video says you can wireless-ly control the X32 with an Ipad. So that means with my church mixer being above on the 2nd floor in the back of the church, I can go downstairs in the middle and adjust things there. Pretty cool.

X32

Edited by Glenn Bucci (10/08/12 01:48 AM)

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4:57 on the video says you can wireless-ly control the X32 with an Ipad. So that means with my church mixer being above on the 2nd floor in the back of the church, I can go downstairs in the middle and adjust things there. Pretty cool.

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For the record there are SEVERAL (In fact more common than not) digital mixers this is a feature on these days.

Seablade

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Quote Glenn Bucci:

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4:57 on the video says you can wireless-ly control the X32 with an Ipad. So that means with my church mixer being above on the 2nd floor in the back of the church, I can go downstairs in the middle and adjust things there. Pretty cool.

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For the record there are SEVERAL (In fact more common than not) digital mixers this is a feature on these days.

Seablade

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But not at this price.

The amount of money Behringer invested in the last year including the Samsung machines seen was nice too

Edited by Glenn Bucci (10/08/12 01:50 AM)