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DGL.



Joined: 28/10/11
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New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new
      #1003447 - 14/08/12 08:19 AM
Just saw this over on sound forums (http://soundforums.net/varsity/4299-uli-behringer-music-group-q-10.html)

From Uli himself

Quote:

New ADA8200

Dear all,

in earlier posts some of you commented on the ADA8000 and suggested improvements. We are truly grateful for those suggestions and today we're excited to announce a vastly improved version of the ADA8000. It's the ULTRAGAIN DIGITAL ADA8200. I have also communicated with Bob Lentini from SAC and received his feedback for which I personally thank him.

Here are some of the improvements:

- The linear PSU has been replaced by a universal auto-range SMPSU. The heat issues are resolved
- A high-end Midas-designed preamp has been implemented on all 8 channels
- The detent VR's were replaced by non-detent types. They also feature much better linearity at high-gain settings
- High-quality Cirrus AD/DA converters have been designed in
- The TL072 op-amps were all replaced by NJM4580 for better audio performance

The unit should be in stores by end of year.







Edited by Hugh Robjohns (06/02/13 09:43 AM)


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The Elf
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1003448 - 14/08/12 08:27 AM
If the price is right this can only be a good thing!

I can't say I'm happy about the non-detented gain controls - an 'improvement'? Not in my book!

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Stef Andrews



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1003468 - 14/08/12 09:47 AM
Is having the Mic pre ins on the back too much to ask?! It's a massive design floor IMO. Plenty of space for 8 XLR ins and 8 jack outs for the lines on the back of a 1U unit. One can hope though the picture looks as if i'll be leaving this aside too.

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shufflebeat



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1003471 - 14/08/12 10:07 AM
Quote:

New ADA8200

Dear all,

in earlier posts some of you commented on the ADA8000 and suggested improvements. We are truly grateful for those suggestions and today we're excited to announce a vastly improved version of the ADA8000.




Didn't this used to be called Research and Development and didn't people used to pay people to do this *before* releasing a product so people didn't end up wasting good money on crap?

Saying that I've got an ada8000 in a corner somewhere, touch wood!

What - it's a Chinese Behringer tree? Have you got any American ones?

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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: The Elf]
      #1003487 - 14/08/12 11:34 AM
Quote The Elf:

I can't say I'm happy about the non-detented gain controls - an 'improvement'? Not in my book!




I think the issue there was that the detents didn't provide accurate gain increments, and they prevented accurate stereo matching of adjacent channels.

Hugh

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Ultimate Fish
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: shufflebeat]
      #1003488 - 14/08/12 11:35 AM
There are many reasons for criticizing Behringer, changing a product in response to customer feedback is not one of them.


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shufflebeat



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1003500 - 14/08/12 12:57 PM
Don't think that's what I was suggesting.

To have released the first one knowing or expecting you're going to get a fair % of them back due to a known fault is a business model tried in the UK car industry in the 1970s. Hence Toyota.

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jaminem
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1003508 - 14/08/12 01:31 PM
This is about the only Behringer product I could still vaguely be tempted by (too many failures and poor design decision for me I'm afraid) but I wish they'd stop stupidly naming their products.

Why does everything have to be 'pro' or 'ultra' - now its 'Audiophile'

In Behringers mind 'pro' seems to mean an IEC socket and XLR connectors, in mine its a good sounding reliable bit of kit that doesn't fail every 5 minutes and has been designed for people who actually use musical equipment regularly.

I wonder if this is the former rather than the latter again?


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Dishpan



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: jaminem]
      #1003509 - 14/08/12 01:31 PM
Does it support high sample rates?


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Ultimate Fish
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: shufflebeat]
      #1003515 - 14/08/12 01:57 PM
Quote shufflebeat:

Don't think that's what I was suggesting.

To have released the first one knowing or expecting you're going to get a fair % of them back due to a known fault is a business model tried in the UK car industry in the 1970s. Hence Toyota.




Well... quite. Behringer outsourced their QC to the end user many years ago

Just one of the reasons why I could never consider the X32. I'm sure it will be an excellent desk to use and very capable. I used to love my DDX3216 and apparently they have the same design team leader on the X32. Trouble is, lovely and intuitive as it was to use, it was/is built by Behringer.

When my DDX inevitably failed, the guy who replaced the dodgy master clock crystal (common component flaw) discovered loads of capacitors had just been missed by the flow soldering and they just fell out when he turned it upside down

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DGL.



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement [Re: DGL.]
      #1003621 - 15/08/12 06:55 AM
Another intresting feature of the ADA8000 was th preamp choice. In the ADA8000 it is the TL071 and in the new ADA8200 theyv'e changed it to the NJM4580. What is interesting about that (again from uli on soundforums) is that the only reason why TL071's were used in the ADA8000 was current draw. The linear power supply could not handle anything more and heat generation prevented them form having a bigger power supply. In the ADA8200 it's a high effciency switced supply so th lack of power and heat generation is no longer a problem.


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The Elf
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1003624 - 15/08/12 07:34 AM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote The Elf:

I can't say I'm happy about the non-detented gain controls - an 'improvement'? Not in my book!




I think the issue there was that the detents didn't provide accurate gain increments, and they prevented accurate stereo matching of adjacent channels.



I'm sure you're correct - and this is the 'improvement' that should have been addressed - not dropping the detents!

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DGL.



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1003644 - 15/08/12 09:26 AM
Another useful bit of kit that *might* be in the pipeline is an AES50 to ADAT convertor.
Someone suggested that i might be a good idea over on soundforums and Uli replied saying that it should not be too difficult and that he would get his team to look at it.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: The Elf]
      #1003650 - 15/08/12 10:08 AM
Quote The Elf:

I'm sure you're correct - and this is the 'improvement' that should have been addressed - not dropping the detents!




But it's the mechanical detents that cause the problem. The only way around it would be to add a non-detented 'trim' control.... easier and cheaper to just use non-detented pots.

I hate detented gain pots -- they're just trying to give the impression of switched gain precision and quality, but it doesn't work and usually hinders more than helps in my view.

hugh

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IvanSC



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: Stef Andrews]
      #1005994 - 28/08/12 11:04 PM
Quote Stef Andrews:

Is having the Mic pre ins on the back too much to ask?! It's a massive design floor IMO. Plenty of space for 8 XLR ins and 8 jack outs for the lines on the back of a 1U unit. One can hope though the picture looks as if i'll be leaving this aside too.




Funnily enough, I made up a 1 U panel with eight XLRs on it for my original ADA8000 because I wanted the mic ins on the front!

That is why there is chocolate and vanilla, I guess.

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


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RancorBeast



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1018973 - 17/11/12 12:22 AM
Has this been released yet?


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OneWorld



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: jaminem]
      #1019098 - 18/11/12 12:41 AM
Quote jaminem:

This is about the only Behringer product I could still vaguely be tempted by (too many failures and poor design decision for me I'm afraid) but I wish they'd stop stupidly naming their products.




I had one of the ADA8000's didn't last long, well a couple of years to be exact


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RancorBeast



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: RancorBeast]
      #1019356 - 19/11/12 10:04 PM
Quote RancorBeast:

Has this been released yet?




I suppose not. Where is Uli? Let's get his input on this.


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IvanSC



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1024697 - 17/12/12 02:10 PM
having used my old ADA8000 for several years, it appears to have died - probably of the classic overloaded mains transformer syndrome, as I do not even have a power light and nothing is getting from the back to the front panel switch.
Since it is likely not worth repairing, I am probably going to replace it with a new one (I bought this one second hand) but if the price bracket is about the same, would not mind picking up one of the newer models....maybe they sorted out the rectifier problems too.

EDIT: But I HAVE just emailed Behringer, as it seems possible that mine MIGHT still be under warranty!


Uli...........? Wo sind sie????

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Edited by IvanSC (17/12/12 02:36 PM)


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The Elf
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: IvanSC]
      #1024701 - 17/12/12 02:30 PM
If you don't need the pre's I have found a secondhand Creamware A16 Ultra a great replacement.

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IvanSC



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: The Elf]
      #1024702 - 17/12/12 02:37 PM
Thought they were strictly MADI. Frankly all I really need is the ADAT to line in.

Will go have a look around... Thanks, mate.

Studio looking a bit sad with nowt in the way of I/O at present...

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DGL.



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1032289 - 05/02/13 10:45 PM
Just though a heads-up on this might be appreciated as Uli has one again been commenting on the release of the ADA8200 ove on soundforums.
It should be released just after April. The delays have been due to the principle ADAT chip manufacturer (Wavefront/Alesis). They have had no end of problems with the chips used in the ADA8000 and have been trying to reach a solution with Wavefront but with no success.
They have now decided to produce their own chips and the prototypes are due to be ready in april (Behringer designing their own chips? well I never) and the ADA8200 should be released soon after.

Also their combined firewire/usb interfaces with midas preamps are also nearly ready (due to be shipped q1) as although the hardware is ready the firmware/drivers (provided by Archwave) are not quite ready yet.


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ef37a



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1032292 - 05/02/13 11:22 PM
I no great lover of Behringer. Had/got some stuff. X802 mixer brilliant, UCA202 fine and handy for what it is at the price. Got a couple of DI boxes at work and a MIDI pedal board, seem fine. Got #3 BCA2000 in loft. Brilliant concept,never been equalled since, crap reliability.

But they can't bloody win here can they! Mechanically detented pots? Yes, a con' because you are still only going to have 10% or worse tolerance pots (and you would have to get into Prism prices to get better!)

XLR sockets? Well, if the unit sits permanently plugged up in a rack, good on the back. If used for "random patching" or location work, on the front. If you have a mix of uses, build a bloody breakout box!

Dave.(I am losing the last few characters on the right on this thread, even my own reply. Ideas?)

Edited by ef37a (05/02/13 11:25 PM)


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Stef Andrews



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: ef37a]
      #1032301 - 06/02/13 12:31 AM
Dave, I agree with pretty much everything you've just said. I said earlier in this thread I'd like the XLRs on the back, and quite frankly if that's the point at which we're arguing over this product then it shows how much Behringer have improved over the last few years!

Couple this sort of thing with the X32 and youtube vid in the thread with the rep stating their aiming corporate (yes, i know its the rep etc!) they *could* be heading in the right direction.

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ef37a



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: Stef Andrews]
      #1032317 - 06/02/13 05:11 AM
Quote Stef Andrews:

Dave, I agree with pretty much everything you've just said. I said earlier in this thread I'd like the XLRs on the back, and quite frankly if that's the point at which we're arguing over this product then it shows how much Behringer have improved over the last few years!

Couple this sort of thing with the X32 and youtube vid in the thread with the rep stating their aiming corporate (yes, i know its the rep etc!) they *could* be heading in the right direction.




Ok Stef. BTW. This morning I am getting the right page layout. Funny place SoS forum!

Dave.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: ef37a]
      #1032341 - 06/02/13 09:46 AM
Quote ef37a:

Funny place SoS forum!




Tell me about it!

H

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zenguitarModerator
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1032372 - 06/02/13 12:11 PM
Our methods are secret Dave, but the rituals included one Mod making a special incantation to raise an Admin, a second Mod making the ritual joke at the first Mod's expense, and then Hugh doing all the work.

Andy

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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: zenguitar]
      #1032411 - 06/02/13 03:11 PM

Tell me about it!
(again! )
H

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The Red Bladder



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: Ultimate Fish]
      #1032417 - 06/02/13 03:42 PM
Quote Ultimate Fish:

When my DDX inevitably failed, the guy who replaced the dodgy master clock crystal (common component flaw) discovered loads of capacitors had just been missed by the flow soldering and they just fell out when he turned it upside down




Usually it's the PSU that fails, as they always use the very minimum diodes, caps etc required. Sometimes they even go up in flames, which good fun for all concerned!


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PatFerdig



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #1032510 - 07/02/13 04:17 AM
Dear all,

I came across the forum and wanted to comment on a couple of points.

As most companies are looking at how they can reduce support costs, MUSIC Group announced last year an increase in our warranty terms from one year in the US and Canada (two years in the EU) to three years if the product is registered within 90 days of purchase. This was a direct result of a $20 million investment in our manufacturing operations which greatly increased the reliability of our products. We have also invested a large amount of money and resources building our internal service depots in Las Vegas, NV and Kidderminster, UK. These facilities house our customer care operations which includes customer service, technical support and factory repair technicians who are there to make sure any issues is resolved quickly.

If there is anything that we can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact us directly by either method listed below. If you would prefer, please feel free to PM me directly and I will be more than happy to help in any way that I can.

email - care@music-group.com
phone - US/Canada - +1-702-800-8290
Europe - +44 1562 732290

Pat Ferdig
VP, Care
MUSIC Group


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byacey



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: The Red Bladder]
      #1036999 - 08/03/13 02:37 AM
The power supply problem was due to the power transformer used. The secondary voltage was too high causing the regulators to run very hot. Other than that, they seem to be OK. I would have preferred the inputs on the back too; the connectors are in the way when trying to adjust the gain controls.


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ef37a



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: byacey]
      #1037004 - 08/03/13 06:21 AM
Quote byacey:

The power supply problem was due to the power transformer used. The secondary voltage was too high causing the regulators to run very hot. Other than that, they seem to be OK. I would have preferred the inputs on the back too; the connectors are in the way when trying to adjust the gain controls.


This is easily fixed by inserting the right resistor values in each leg of the bridge feeds. This also has the incidental advantage of limiting the ripple current in the main capacitors and thus giving the mains transformer less of a hard time. The nearer to a resistive load a traff sees, the happier it is!

Dave.


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byacey



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: ef37a]
      #1037208 - 09/03/13 06:42 AM
Dropping the excess voltage across some series resistors will still generate the same heat as what the regulators dissipate inside the cabinet. On a three terminal regulator, 4 to 5 volts is plenty of differential between the input and output for the regulators to work.

If I recall, my regulators had about 29 volts on the input, so the regulator had to drop about 14 volts, a considerable space heater.


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ef37a



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: byacey]
      #1037209 - 09/03/13 07:13 AM
Quote byacey:

Dropping the excess voltage across some series resistors will still generate the same heat as what the regulators dissipate inside the cabinet. On a three terminal regulator, 4 to 5 volts is plenty of differential between the input and output for the regulators to work.

If I recall, my regulators had about 29 volts on the input, so the regulator had to drop about 14 volts, a considerable space heater.




The critical point is that the heat is REMOVED from the regulators! The running temperature inside the unit will still be much the same (tho 'king big Rs will soak up some of that even) but that temperature will still be well below component ratings, at least I have not heard of anyone being burned by an ADA!

And the transformer will stay a wee bit cooler.

Dave.


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byacey



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: ef37a]
      #1037289 - 09/03/13 04:01 PM
The transformer heating will be the same whether the regulators drop the excess voltage, or some series resistors, as the current load is still the same.

Racked up these things are one big space heater. Unless the heat is removed from the cabinet enclosure, it will dry up the electrolytic caps, and the resistors will drift off value. I've seen many cases of the transformer windings burning up. More can be found here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=20591.0


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ef37a



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1037301 - 09/03/13 05:53 PM
There is little point in arguing over what is clearly a bad design but there are a few general principles here,

Using external resistors reduces the peak current into the caps (might help those a bit too! They sound a bit ***t!).
The heat that was buried in the secondary winding is now dissipated outside and as I said, if the resistors have a big thermal mass they won't rise so much in temperature, i.e. the more "stuff" you have the lower the working temperature.

I am involved on a daily basis with gear that uses a traff/rect/cap/regulator circuit in many variations and supplying voltages of +0- 15 and currents up to one amp. There must be thousands of examples now around the world and I never see power supply failures. Get it right in design and it will last.
I was also involved in the proving of a heatsink that carried several devices, 78/79's and power FETs. I needed to show that even under a 40C+ ambient it was big enough to keep the junctions cool enough. Five plus years and no failures have proved the design right.

Dave.


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byacey



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: ef37a]
      #1037333 - 10/03/13 01:14 AM
I'm not trying to cause a conflict here; except for altering the power input into the transformer, you won't change the heat dissipation inside the cabinet, short of adding some series resistance external to the cabinet. Thermal mass spreads the heat out over a larger surface area, but it's still trapped in the cabinet.

Peak power to the caps is negligible a split second after the power switch is thrown and the caps charge to peak voltage. RMS power is what's doing the heating, be it across a resistor, or converted to DC across semi junction; regardless it's inside the cabinet with no place to go.

The engineer that designed that supply should have been flogged and fired. A 1st year electronics engineering student of any worth would have seen the design problem early on.


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ef37a



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: byacey]
      #1037341 - 10/03/13 07:05 AM
Morning B!Yes, very pleased to stay gentlemanly about this!

"Heat" is not the killer here. There is vastly more heat in my garden soil at 4C than in my kettle at 100C! Temperature is the problem. The Berry box is made of steel. Were it made of 5mm brass(or filled with water!) with the same external dimensions it would not reach anything like the final temperature that it does, basic heatsink math, dgrs/W. So, the more you "spread out" the heat dissipating components, the cooler everything runs. I had a similar discussion a year or so ago about the merits of big assed cathode bias resistors. Same concept. a 10W R will run cooler than a 1W for the same Ws in.

I was not talking of "inrush" current re the caps and series Rs, I meant the fact that rectifiers do not conduct for the whole 1/2 cycle or anything near it but supply power in short, high current pulses. The resistors will limit that a bit.

And yes, hangin's too good for 'im!

Dave.


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IvanSC



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Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1062833 - 19/08/13 08:42 PM
Psst! Anyone want to buy an ADA8000 with a brand new, improved power supply?

And in the meantime, I got a second Focusrite Octopre.

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
Posts: 3259
Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: New Behringer ADA8200 ADA8000 Replacement new [Re: DGL.]
      #1062838 - 19/08/13 09:22 PM
Quote:


(or filled with water!)




Nope, doesn't work. In fact I think it's made things worse.

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Onward and outward


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