Hello,

I' am new to this forum, hope i'll get some help from you guys, because i saw it's quite a very good one, with lots of interesting threads and lots of answers that come in your support =].

I'm having a little conscious problem, because i can't decide which of this 2 schools of Music i should start: Alchemea or Point Blank London?

I saw some very good reviews about Alchemea, another friend recommended to me, it's the only institute that it\s open non stop and it's very intensive with a lot of practice time that you must do. The only thing is, that, from what i saw they don't have a Dj workstation like a mixer and 2 cd players and that's a little bit sad for me, because i will be leaving from my country and i don't want to make a package with my mixer, monitors and the 2 platters to transport them to london so i can exercise on them when i want.
On the other hand Point Blank has this Dj station and you can do the audio engineering intensive school. The only thing that puts my on thoughts is that i saw they have quite a good marketing with lots of known Dj ( like pete tong, carl cox etc being the image of the school ), but i find this to be very skeptical for me, because i'm thinking it's a strategy to attract students that have this aspirations.

The thing is, i want to be a DJ and producer and coming to a foreign country, will have to make me search for contacts and i want to know which of those is better in contacts in the direction that i am aiming and that is: putting music in great clubs and making good tracks so i can rise up my notoriety. I know it depends on how good i am, but i'm already working my ass to be good to very good before i get to London so i can do good impression =].

I hope i have been understood, because my english ain't at it's perfection =].

Thank you in advance!

You don't need school. If you want to be a DJ, learn to mix. If you want to produce, do it yourself with online tutorials and compare it to released music. Make some friends and ask their opinion.

People who run music courses are almost always failed musicians. You don't people like that anywhere near you, let alone giving you advice.

Quote Buggzy:

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The thing is, i want to be a DJ

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Has anyone ever booked a DJ on the strength they have a degree ?

Quote chris...:

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Quote Buggzy:

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The thing is, i want to be a DJ

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Has anyone ever booked a DJ on the strength they have a degree ?

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Judge Jules ...

I know how to mix, i'm improving my platters mixing skill now. Wanting to do one of those 2 school for music production is for not wasting any more time, because i am 24 years old and if i have the possibility now to absolve a music school, why wont i? It will spare me lots of time trying by myself to learn somethings on my own.

I got some Dj friends that encouraged me if i have the opportunity "just go for it" they told me =].

How are you funding all this? If you have the money, and you really want to come to London, and it's a way of getting a UK student visa for a year or two to hang out with like-minded people on the scene, then I can see the point. Whether the courses are any good is another matter.

Quote Buggzy:

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I know how to mix, i'm improving my platters mixing skill now. Wanting to do one of those 2 school for music production is for not wasting any more time, because i am 24 years old and if i have the possibility now to absolve a music school, why wont i? It will spare me lots of time trying by myself to learn somethings on my own.

I got some Dj friends that encouraged me if i have the opportunity "just go for it" they told me =].

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You don't need it .. post your tunes here we will tell you whats wrong with them ...

The best education is mixing your own tunes next to the ones you love. Especially if you play them out. It suddenly becomes so obvious that certain parts aren't right - the production or the structure or that the hook isn't enough to carry the tune.

Quote johnny h:

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People who run music courses are almost always failed musicians. You don't people like that anywhere near you, let alone giving you advice.

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Yo Johnny - based on your post, it's fair to say we should all be ignoring any advice you dole out here on the forum, yeah? Just wanted to check.

Quote Scramble:

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How are you funding all this? If you have the money, and you really want to come to London, and it's a way of getting a UK student visa for a year or two to hang out with like-minded people on the scene, then I can see the point. Whether the courses are any good is another matter.

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I managed to safe some money for this experience and it's not like i'm trowing away the money, i'm investing it in me, i don't think after any kinda of help u get from a school you can be as "dumb" as you were when u came. I don't need a student visa, i'm part of the European Union so it's really simple in this direction.
Like i said, i see London with more opportunities then the country from where i am.

Quote johnny h:

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Quote Buggzy:

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I know how to mix, i'm improving my platters mixing skill now. Wanting to do one of those 2 school for music production is for not wasting any more time, because i am 24 years old and if i have the possibility now to absolve a music school, why wont i? It will spare me lots of time trying by myself to learn somethings on my own.

I got some Dj friends that encouraged me if i have the opportunity "just go for it" they told me =].

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You don't need it .. post your tunes here we will tell you whats wrong with them ...

The best education is mixing your own tunes next to the ones you love. Especially if you play them out. It suddenly becomes so obvious that certain parts aren't right - the production or the structure or that the hook isn't enough to carry the tune.

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Johnny i really appreciate that your trying to help me out w/o spending any money on schools, cus u probably don't find them so good =]. But i really need it some opinions on the 2 schools i mentioned, for the moment no advice, hope someone will see.

Thank you all for the support =].

Quote duesenberg:

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Quote johnny h:

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People who run music courses are almost always failed musicians. You don't people like that anywhere near you, let alone giving you advice.

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Yo Johnny - based on your post, it's fair to say we should all be ignoring any advice you dole out here on the forum, yeah? Just wanted to check.

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I'm not sure what backwards logic you've worked that out with. Please keep it to yourself though.

Quote Buggzy:

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Quote johnny h:

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Quote Buggzy:

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I know how to mix, i'm improving my platters mixing skill now. Wanting to do one of those 2 school for music production is for not wasting any more time, because i am 24 years old and if i have the possibility now to absolve a music school, why wont i? It will spare me lots of time trying by myself to learn somethings on my own.

I got some Dj friends that encouraged me if i have the opportunity "just go for it" they told me =].

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You don't need it .. post your tunes here we will tell you whats wrong with them ...

The best education is mixing your own tunes next to the ones you love. Especially if you play them out. It suddenly becomes so obvious that certain parts aren't right - the production or the structure or that the hook isn't enough to carry the tune.

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Johnny i really appreciate that your trying to help me out w/o spending any money on schools, cus u probably don't find them so good =]. But i really need it some opinions on the 2 schools i mentioned, for the moment no advice, hope someone will see.

Thank you all for the support =].

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My opinion is they are not worth the money and not worth the time. Amongst people who actually are DJs or producers (or both) you won't find that opinion controversial.

Quote johnny h:

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People who run music courses are almost always failed musicians. You don't people like that anywhere near you, let alone giving you advice.

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Absolutely! Never take career advice from someone whose career is on the rocks. And never take financial advice from a poor person!

Or as Mickie Most once said (to some dreadful A&R woman from EMI, who was spouting all kinds of silly statements as some discussion) "If you know so bloody much, where's your Lear Jet? Mine's at City Airport, but where's yours?"

To the OP - there are plenty of places to learn and breath the air of DJ'ing and the places all depend on the type of music. What kind of music do you want to play and produce? Techno, and if so, what species of techno? Hip hop, and if so what sort, London berk-hop, NY or West Coast hip-hop? What? Black or white?

Find out firstly, what it is that you really want to do and then go to the one place on Earth that allows you to drink in the atmosphere of that one thing. London will only give you a certain type of berk-hop, if you want 106bpm NY-hop, you have to go to NY. And so on! If all you want to do is 120bpm Euro-hop in 2:4 time, the sort of rubbish that make large German girls' nipples go erect as they muscle-up for a foxtrot, you could possibly stay right there, where you are - who knows!

Quote The Red Bladder:

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If all you want to do is 120bpm Euro-hop in 2:4 time, the sort of rubbish that make large German girls' nipples go erect as they muscle-up for a foxtrot, you could possibly stay right there, where you are - who knows!

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Where's that then Red? It sounds epic!

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote The Red Bladder:

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Quote johnny h:

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People who run music courses are almost always failed musicians. You don't people like that anywhere near you, let alone giving you advice.

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Absolutely! Never take career advice from someone whose career is on the rocks. And never take financial advice from a poor person!

Or as Mickie Most once said (to some dreadful A&R woman from EMI, who was spouting all kinds of silly statements as some discussion) "If you know so bloody much, where's your Lear Jet? Mine's at City Airport, but where's yours?"

To the OP - there are plenty of places to learn and breath the air of DJ'ing and the places all depend on the type of music. What kind of music do you want to play and produce? Techno, and if so, what species of techno? Hip hop, and if so what sort, London berk-hop, NY or West Coast hip-hop? What? Black or white?

Find out firstly, what it is that you really want to do and then go to the one place on Earth that allows you to drink in the atmosphere of that one thing. London will only give you a certain type of berk-hop, if you want 106bpm NY-hop, you have to go to NY. And so on! If all you want to do is 120bpm Euro-hop in 2:4 time, the sort of rubbish that make large German girls' nipples go erect as they muscle-up for a foxtrot, you could possibly stay right there, where you are - who knows!

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I know exactly what kind of music i want to do and that it's : minimal, minimal techno, tech house, deep house. And this kind of music i'm mixing to, i got lots of tracks and some vinyls. I know London is a fan of this kind of music and it's consumed quite good =D.
SO who may be better from the 2 schools i posted and the direction i am aiming =]?

Quote Buggzy:

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Quote The Red Bladder:

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Quote johnny h:

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People who run music courses are almost always failed musicians. You don't people like that anywhere near you, let alone giving you advice.

---

Absolutely! Never take career advice from someone whose career is on the rocks. And never take financial advice from a poor person!

Or as Mickie Most once said (to some dreadful A&R woman from EMI, who was spouting all kinds of silly statements as some discussion) "If you know so bloody much, where's your Lear Jet? Mine's at City Airport, but where's yours?"

To the OP - there are plenty of places to learn and breath the air of DJ'ing and the places all depend on the type of music. What kind of music do you want to play and produce? Techno, and if so, what species of techno? Hip hop, and if so what sort, London berk-hop, NY or West Coast hip-hop? What? Black or white?

Find out firstly, what it is that you really want to do and then go to the one place on Earth that allows you to drink in the atmosphere of that one thing. London will only give you a certain type of berk-hop, if you want 106bpm NY-hop, you have to go to NY. And so on! If all you want to do is 120bpm Euro-hop in 2:4 time, the sort of rubbish that make large German girls' nipples go erect as they muscle-up for a foxtrot, you could possibly stay right there, where you are - who knows!

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I know exactly what kind of music i want to do and that it's : minimal, minimal techno, tech house, deep house. And this kind of music i'm mixing to, i got lots of tracks and some vinyls. I know London is a fan of this kind of music and it's consumed quite good =D.
SO who may be better from the 2 schools i posted and the direction i am aiming =]?

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You aren't listening! Both schools are a waste of time. If you aren't going to listen, you aren't going to learn.

Quote johnny h:

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If you aren't going to listen, you aren't going to learn.

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simple innit? Does one need an expensive indulgence in the edcuation of minimal, minimal techno, tech house, deep house? Honest to jesus i dont believe one does. Any head with a head for techno needs no one. i'll concede one very important element - Live Performance. If someone could show you how to construct the perfect live sound - fair enough. Those are indeed precious skills. The rest suck! IMHO

Quote Buggzy:

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I know exactly what kind of music i want to do and that it's : minimal, minimal techno, tech house, deep house. And this kind of music i'm mixing to, i got lots of tracks and some vinyls. I know London is a fan of this kind of music and it's consumed quite good =D.
SO who may be better from the 2 schools i posted and the direction i am aiming =]?

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That sounds like fundamental techno and one of the cities in Germany where 'Fundi-techno' is large would be the place to go for that, rather than London.

As for the school question, like the man said, they are both a waste of your time and money.

Quote The Red Bladder:

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That sounds like fundamental techno and one of the cities in Germany where 'Fundi-techno' is large would be the place to go for that, rather than London.

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I'm not uptodate with all the latest genres, but I do recon you're making some of these up!

AKA Tekkno or Tekknozid. Fundi-Tekkno is the opposite of 'Prol-Tekkno' (Proletarier Tekkno) i.e. proletarian techno. The giant Loveparade is the very heart of Prol-Tekkno. The heart of hardcore Tekkno is the Fu¢kparade in Berlin every August. Sometimes it turns into a full-blown riot if the police try to stop it happening. If the OP wants to learn about hardcore Tekkno, Berlin is really the only city on Earth to go to.

Altogether, Berlin became the heart of Tekkno after the famous Bunker building in the middle of the city was squatted to put on raves. Most Tekkno is left wing, but watch out for Gabber, which has neo-Nazi elements within its fan base.

Look out for the 1st of May riots every year. If you can, get to a roof-top party overlooking the riot scenes in district of Kreutzberg. The police put in thousands of young recruits and police cadets in riot gear and from all over Germany and the crowd then pelts them with those small fist-sized paving stones. Nothing to do with techno or Tekkno, but it's great entertainment - and in hi-def and surround sound too - and with real tear gas as well!

Quote The Red Bladder:

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and with real tear gas as well!

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I haven't had a snort of decent tear gas since a Yellow Man gig at the Brixton Astoria in the mid 80's. But that was with Sly & Robbie taking care of the rhythm section. Real, organic music. Do you reckon the Hip Hop variety is as good as the old stuff?

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Strictly project and just for fun

Now you make me want to get all my Sly and Robbie LPs out!

Tekkno good? You must be bloody joking! It is the most pointless and unmusical noise after Stockhausen!

Quote The Red Bladder:

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but watch out for Gabber, which has neo-Nazi elements within its fan base.

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Always been far more popular in Holland (which is where the name comes from) through with a solid football firm/rioter/hooligan element at it's core. Rotterdam for all that noise althrough the used to be a New York scene and a huge one in Scotland back in the day... still the dutch know how to put on shows that put everyone else to shame.

Quote The Red Bladder:

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Tekkno good? You must be bloody joking! It is the most pointless and unmusical noise after Stockhausen!

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Speedcore/Terror or any of the other 220bpm+ noisecore variants would surely take that title!

One of my mates used to run one of leading speedcore nights in the UK (yeah.. all three of them) and I used to question him in the record shop all time on how he selected his tunes. I still can't work out how in a pile of 20 speedcore tracks, how you choose which are good and which are bad when they are all just 100% pure *ROAAAAR*

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote johnny h:

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You aren't listening! Both schools are a waste of time. If you aren't going to listen, you aren't going to learn.

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Yo, JohnnyH - no need to get so aggressive on the guy! He's just choosing not to listen to your opinion!! And like you already pointed out, he'd be crazy in the first place to listen to any advice about the music business from peeps who have only failed in the music business!!!

So he's not listening to you - but don't worry, he's still going to learn!!!!!

Quote johnny h:

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Quote Buggzy:

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Quote The Red Bladder:

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Quote johnny h:

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People who run music courses are almost always failed musicians. You don't people like that anywhere near you, let alone giving you advice.

---

Absolutely! Never take career advice from someone whose career is on the rocks. And never take financial advice from a poor person!

Or as Mickie Most once said (to some dreadful A&R woman from EMI, who was spouting all kinds of silly statements as some discussion) "If you know so bloody much, where's your Lear Jet? Mine's at City Airport, but where's yours?"

To the OP - there are plenty of places to learn and breath the air of DJ'ing and the places all depend on the type of music. What kind of music do you want to play and produce? Techno, and if so, what species of techno? Hip hop, and if so what sort, London berk-hop, NY or West Coast hip-hop? What? Black or white?

Find out firstly, what it is that you really want to do and then go to the one place on Earth that allows you to drink in the atmosphere of that one thing. London will only give you a certain type of berk-hop, if you want 106bpm NY-hop, you have to go to NY. And so on! If all you want to do is 120bpm Euro-hop in 2:4 time, the sort of rubbish that make large German girls' nipples go erect as they muscle-up for a foxtrot, you could possibly stay right there, where you are - who knows!

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I know exactly what kind of music i want to do and that it's : minimal, minimal techno, tech house, deep house. And this kind of music i'm mixing to, i got lots of tracks and some vinyls. I know London is a fan of this kind of music and it's consumed quite good =D.
SO who may be better from the 2 schools i posted and the direction i am aiming =]?

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You aren't listening! Both schools are a waste of time. If you aren't going to listen, you aren't going to learn.

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Okay Johnny, i understand your opinion and again i thank you for the implication, probably others would have said just not go and only that, but, the most conclusive way is if you could give me some concrete examples from people u know that have went to one of those schools or other ones and said after: "it was a waste of time and money, i haven't learned anything new from what i knew or i should have kept the money and learn myself". Do u actually know this kind of persons or you just heard from others?

I got a good example, of a good opinion on one of those schools, one from 2 dj & producers who said that after finishing the courses they really changed allot and made a far better music, there name is Third Party, they are in Size records and made 2 songs for Steve Angellos Record Label. Maybe that says something about what they learned, i guess, tell me if i'm wrong.

Paying for a course on DJ'ing or production is no different to paying for a lot of other courses - except for what its worth might be in the real world. BUT IGNORING THAT -

You could learn enough to pass a degree in English, or Maths, or Philosophy or in fact any subject that you dont need to use a super collider for, at home, using a library and a bookshop and google - IF YOU ARE CLEVER ENOUGH.

Similarly you can learn everything to make a hit record at home, if you can afford the equipment, if YOU ARE TALENTED ENOUGH to be able to be self resourceful to do this. The majority of people who are successful have done this without any 'House 101' course.

However, lets admit this can be difficult. You can waste a lot of time reverse engineering sounds and techniques, using the wrong kit and basically misunderstanding basic concepts that could be mastered in two minutes if some one demonstrated it.

So, if you have the money why not go on a course and meet like minded people and perhaps get fast tracked through some aspects of the process? It wont make you famous, turn you into a star etc etc - and from some aspects may be a total waste of money.

But then so are many of the course offered by institutions offering extended education on 'Philosophy in the 19th century', 'Feminism through the Ages', 'Photoshop in 10 lessons', or 2 years M.A Sociology of International Business Dynamics.

I mean who the hell would see learning for learning sake as worth anything?

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Quote duesenberg:

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Quote johnny h:

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You aren't listening! Both schools are a waste of time. If you aren't going to listen, you aren't going to learn.

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Yo, JohnnyH - no need to get so aggressive on the guy! He's just choosing not to listen to your opinion!! And like you already pointed out, he'd be crazy in the first place to listen to any advice about the music business from peeps who have only failed in the music business!!!

So he's not listening to you - but don't worry, he's still going to learn!!!!!

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I think you have a sticky exclamation mark key. Either that or its some rather low level attempt at humour.

Quote Buggzy:

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Okay Johnny, i understand your opinion and again i thank you for the implication, probably others would have said just not go and only that, but, the most conclusive way is if you could give me some concrete examples from people u know that have went to one of those schools or other ones and said after: "it was a waste of time and money, i haven't learned anything new from what i knew or i should have kept the money and learn myself". Do u actually know this kind of persons or you just heard from others?

I got a good example, of a good opinion on one of those schools, one from 2 dj & producers who said that after finishing the courses they really changed allot and made a far better music, there name is Third Party, they are in Size records and made 2 songs for Steve Angellos Record Label. Maybe that says something about what they learned, i guess, tell me if i'm wrong.

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Yeah I know lots of people who are doing very well (some you will surely have heard of). Hardly any have done any sort of music technology course. My old agent did one, he said it was crap, and he wasn't a very good agent so I left him

Quote johnny h:

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Yeah I know lots of people who are doing very well (some you will surely have heard of). Hardly any have done any sort of music technology course. My old agent did one, he said it was crap, and he wasn't a very good agent so I left him

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I did a postgrad course at Bournemouth in 94 after completing my BEng degree in Aeronautical Engineering. It was basically a 1 yr MA course in music for film and TV.

I learned some great stuff there and it was a great place to be able to spend time mixing up guided tuition with learning yourself 'on the job' so to speak. It was what you made of it.

It certainly helped me start my career and I'm doing pretty well even if I say so myself!

So this kneejerk 'all music courses are a ripoff' is just nonsense. I'm sure plenty of them may be, but to a certain extent, with all of them, they are what you make them, same as any education course.

Just imho.

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paul-thomson.com

Yo, JohnnyH - have you checked this shirkethic guy?!!? He didn't take your advice either, and he's doing great!!! So, like, who's the OP going to trust?? The shirkethic guy who's talking the talk but also walking the walk - or you, who's talking the talk but not walking the wa...... yeah, well, anyway.......

At the mo, the only guy on this thread who's advice seems to be backed up with real world success, is the guy who went on a music course! If I was the OP, I'd be giving all the empty vessels on this thread a wide berth, know what I mean?

Quote johnny h:

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People who run music courses are almost always failed musicians. You don't people like that anywhere near you, let alone giving you advice.

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surely people who have made mistakes are in the best position to give advice on how not to make them?

i do find the idea that people who teach (any kind of) music, failures as a ridiculous concept.

The basic fact is, they are making money, paying their mortgage etc from what they love doing. Not everybody's idea of 'success' is to be a superstar.

Music (including DJ'ing) is no different to any other skill, it can be taught. As long as there are no promises made to where that can lead, i see no problem.

Is seems no one here is able to provide first hand experience of courses at either of the providers about which the OP was enquiring. And since the thread has degenerated somewhat with folk not warming to Johnny H's viewpoint (again) I think it's time to draw this to a close.

Thanks to all those posting more constructive comments in the latter half of the thread....

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound