I'v just finished some mixes for a band and they're not happy with them. I asked what was wrong and they just said they sound 'flat' and wont really expand on that, no asking for the raw audio files to mix them themselves. I have spent more time on these mixes than i even like to think about so I'm a bit heartbroken.

I want to fix the things they dont like but they seem to have lost faith in me. Please be honest and tell me if they're any good and if they aren't what could I improve? Bear in mind they are completely unmastered.

Click here to have a listen.

Edited by chew_rocket (26/11/12 12:25 PM)

Hi - all of them sound very muffled to me - A-B against some material the band/you like that's in a similar vain - I'm sure you will hear the difference.

Could be your monitoring is the problem or you have just heard them so many times you can't tell anymore. The tracking seems fine (just had a VERY quick listen)

Take a break - clear your mind and have another go - an hour or two on each should get you much closer.

If you raw material sounds like the mixes then you have a bigger problem and it's salvage time!

JP

--------------------
Mac Pro, Logic Pro, lots of software and 17 hard drives!

Agreed, a quick listen suggests that the tracks and the basic balances are good, but the overall frequency balance is lacking high frequencies.

I agree with JonnyP.Mixes seem quite 'muddy' and squashed. And, if it were me, I'd have to apply a bit of judicious tuning on the vocal for The Yetti.

The tuning on the vocal is awful .. personally I hate pitch correction but if I had to deal with vocals like this I'd definitely fix them or have them rerecorded. If its this bad however I don't think the singer is capable of singing a whole song in tune.

Listening on the laptop, the mixing doesn't sound too bad but compared to commercial stuff it needs to be a little bit brighter and punchier. So have a look at the compression settings, try a transient modeller (SPL is best, Sonnox Oxford or Waves are good too), fix the tuning and sweeten it up with a good sounding EQ.

If it was a full commercial production I expect they would tighten up the drum and guitar playing too, it depends what sort of sound they want.

Yeah, I'd echo what's been said above. The fundamental problem here is that the drum sounds are not working at all. They sound completely dead and boxy in a genre which is generally the opposite. SO the first thing I'd do is completely replace those with samples. Once you have that foundation of bright punchy drums with some length, the rest of the mix should make a bit more sense. The guitar sounds on the whole seem better and you can then judge how much brightness you need to add to the vocal.

J

--------------------
www.jackruston.com

I think you are almost there...I quite like the tunes - good energy. I agree with all that have posted here in regard to the 'flatness' of the higher frequencies, which could point to your monitoring. I would also encourage you to take a look at the snare. To my ears, it sounds like the top head mike is the dominant sound here(57?), along with some good doses of compression. Sometimes it is best to go to the source and see what is happening there with the original sound. (ie: is the actual snare itself the problem? Badly tuned? Muffled?? I have seen some drummers use heaps of gaffer tape) If so, a quick drum replacement could do the trick, and try blending the two. I have found that bringing up the room mics first helps to get more air on the snare (I am such a poet) before you introduce the top head mics. And as mentioned I would also look at the vocals more closely in terms of pitch. Just my two denari.

Fun songs, and decent balance.

Cheers
Roland

I'll add my agreement to the observations above. There's a lack of air and life in the mix - much of this could be down to the source material, but it needs addressing if possible. There's a sense of congestion throughout.

The snare is poking through the mix nicely, but it sounds very dry and needs more support from the under-snare mic, or maybe the addition of a supporting sample.

And those vocals... they certainly need some tuning work.

The rest of the parts sound pretty good and the songs are decent.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

When I read all these comments I completely 100% agree and on listening to the mix now I think 'why didn't i realise all this'?

I must admit i knew the snare sounded a bit crap but thats ALWAYS my main struggle in a mix, i can never get the right level of the bottom mic, it always just sounds... weird.

Gonna have a fiddle this week so will report back with the new mix.



P.s. This forum is a total asset to my progression as a producer and I'm always happy with the answers i receive... I cant thank you guys enough!

It is often weird (snare bottom). Sometimes better to stick with the top mic and look for the sizzle with eq and the overheads. Again I think they're going to prefer samples unless you've got some lovely room sounds muted up in the session.

J

--------------------
www.jackruston.com

Re-Mastered in 3 minutes...?

Click the Soundcloud link above for my interpretation. Sorry I will delete in 24 hours just don't know how to make it private...
Took less than 3 minutes with Ozone. Not so bad now. Please tell me you are not using earbud headphones? Monitoring is so important...

Thanks... I'm at work at the moment so cant currently listen.

I actually did a quick master last night with a big high shelf boost and some compression, definitely breathes more life into it but I still need to work on the snare sound!

And no I'v got Adam A7X monitors and an acoustically treated room. My monitoring is very good, my ears just need more practice.

Even with the HF lift, do give some thought to getting the vocal a touch more forward and "bigger". Maybe some edge around 2.8k via a parallel exciter and swapping the reverb for delay, or more predelay on the verb. In the first verse it seemed a bit buried.

Not being a expert mixer I don't tend to comment on these things. But really, it is odd how a band that has obviously put in a lot of work and sometimes can sound really good can be happy with such regular sloppiness in the ensemble and such way out of tune singing.

Just some of my initial reactions as an unbiased fresh set of ears for you:

- Snare sounds like it was recorded in a small drum room with an overloaded mic. The drum also has no ring, like the drummer has put severe dampening on his skins. Drums need to ring or the sound like just a thud.

- Vocals are pitchy

- Vocals don't sit right in the mix I think. They sound sort of muffled, and behind the band and dead center.

- Overall the mix does not have a lot of high end. No sparkle or sizzle or air.

- Only the guitars change going into the chorus. Drums sound even deader in the chorus.

- Guitars sound good.

OK i'v remixed it... i'v yet to retune the vocals but other than that i think its 10 times better, i really dont know what i was thinking before.... i think id mixed myself stupid!!

Any final suggestions before i tune the vocals and 'sign it off'?

remix and old mix - soundcloud set

+ maybe a little bright plate on the snare...

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

It's pretty decent (and a vast improvement than before), but it now sounds a little bit too bright and bass-light. I'd give that a tweak -- not a lot, just a bit.

There is a bright short-ish plate on the snare.... maybe a little more of it??

In regards to the mix being a little bright thats probably to do with the high shelf i put on as a 'rough master'. I'll be taking that off and leaving the decision of how bright it should be with the mastering engineer.

Quote chew_rocket:

---

There is a bright short-ish plate on the snare.... maybe a little more of it??

---

I'd say so, yes. Just enough to make the snare sound 'wet' in the mix. Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit longer - just a bit of balancing until it sounds subjectively 'natural'.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Night and day, well done. You're about 85% there with that remix I'd say. Hopefully you feel slightly less like jumping off the nearest bridge now?

--------------------
http://www.loverslanestudios.co.uk

Quote The Elf:

---

Quote chew_rocket:

---

There is a bright short-ish plate on the snare.... maybe a little more of it??

---

I'd say so, yes. Just enough to make the snare sound 'wet' in the mix. Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit longer - just a bit of balancing until it sounds subjectively 'natural'.

---

Yeah, itd have been nice to have some thumping room mics in those choruses. The dist guitar could do with a bit of something. It sounds good but you want more of it. A bit of stero depth to it oo maybe. And the vocal are maybe slightly bigger than the rest of the song.

--------------------
http://www.loverslanestudios.co.uk

Quote Persuazion:

---

Hopefully you feel slightly less like jumping off the nearest bridge now?

---

hehe yeah this is true!

thanks for the tips. I'll give that snare a tweak... unfortunately the room mics dont sound very good (not a great room!).

An artificial room wouldn't hurt, but shave off all the lows and dip the honky mids.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote chew_rocket:

---

OK i'v remixed it... i'v yet to retune the vocals but other than that i think its 10 times better, i really dont know what i was thinking before.... i think id mixed myself stupid!!

Any final suggestions before i tune the vocals and 'sign it off'?

---

Listening to this track for the first time, headphones...

Really distracted by the lack of vocal tuning; in general I think it would be a good idea to fix this early before getting mix feedback.

Vocals sound on the quiet side, most noticeable on the chorus.

Would have liked an extra push on the final chorus at 2.25; think I wanted to hear more high melodic or rhythm guitar, or power chords or something...the track sounds dominated by bass, grungy guitar bass-doubling, and drums. Not crazy about the snare sound.

Apart from that...great job! Well done.

Some very contradicting opinions here... someone mentioned earlier that its bass light, someone said later that its bass heavy. Someone said the vocals were overpowering, then someone said they are too quiet.

Are we not all listening to this mix in the exact same room with the exact same monitors???

I listened quietly on macbook pro speakers. Not exactly what you need for solid advice, but sometimes exactly what you need!
I listened to the re-mix whilst reading the comments thinking that's what the original comments were about and thought it was very harsh and didn't really get it. Then realised! The remix is tonnes better. First two things that stand out in this listening style is snare doesn't sound as big and solid as it needs to or compared to similar songs in this genre. I'd personally say 100% needs a decent sample. Then the tuning on the vox, and it would be sounding pretty good.

This rocks! Good energy. Much improved.

And by the way, Big Foot is real they say now. They have his DNA!

Long live the Yeti.

If you're getting an evenly split response on the bass levels then you're probably in the vicinity of "right".

Much improved for sure. Good job!

Question for the "vocals need tuning" crew, could y'all point out a couple of moments where they're off? I'm greatly disturbed that I'm not hearing the problem. (Or I'm dismissing it as a performance choice.)

Edited by A. AuCr (05/12/12 04:43 PM)

Quote A. AuCr:

---

Question for the "vocals need tuning" crew, could y'all point out a couple of moments where they're off? I'm greatly disturbed that I'm not hearing the problem. (Or I'm dismissing it as a performance choice.)

---

It might be easier to point out the bits that *are* in tune!!

How about the first held note 'head'? 'Live'? 'Give'? They are as good examples as any - all way flat.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote A. AuCr:

---

I'm greatly disturbed that I'm not hearing the problem. (Or I'm dismissing it as a performance choice.)

---

Performance choice schmerformance choice. It's shockingly bad throughout.

Thanks. I think. Now I'm really disturbed, I'm going to have to listen to this on something else, (phone and nice earbuds thus far) because I'm still not hearing "shockingly bad" on those, but merely "somewhat inharmonious..."

I've been spending too much time in the indie world lately, apparently.

Quote A. AuCr:

---

Thanks. I think. Now I'm really disturbed, I'm going to have to listen to this on something else, (phone and nice earbuds thus far) because I'm still not hearing "shockingly bad" on those, but merely "somewhat inharmonious..."

I've been spending too much time in the indie world lately, apparently.

---

And not enough in the music world so it seems.

Yeah the performance of the vocals is not good. I used to really like his voice and I do still like the tone, but lately he seems to just sing flat a lot. I do suck at vocal tuning too so Im dreading the tuning of these vocals (and the 3 other tracks).

Quote chew_rocket:

---

I used to really like his voice and I do still like the tone

---

Yes, I really like the tone of his voice. Tuning is very much worth the effort - and actually shouldn't be too onerous. I've done MUCH worse than this and it typically only takes half an hour these days.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

What program would you favour on a vocal like this? He does a lot of vibrato and tying syllables together that melodyne doesn't seem to want to pick up. Its just giving me one 'blob' per word most of the time. Is there something better for the job?

If need be you can cut blobs up in Melodyne.

I don't get technical, besides it's all been said many times. The songs are average, nothing to do with the mix, but I stopped listening after about 30 secs.

Just tell them you were using this as a reference.

http://youtu.be/WfGtB6K8q8k

Great track, I love it.

--------------------
'You know it's a bad role when Nic Cage passes on it.'

Quote chew_rocket:

---

What program would you favour on a vocal like this? He does a lot of vibrato and tying syllables together that melodyne doesn't seem to want to pick up. Its just giving me one 'blob' per word most of the time. Is there something better for the job?

---

Antares auto-tune evo. Auto mode instead of graph. Select your key, set your retune speed and natural vibrato amount. I usually dial in loads of auto tune, then slowly dial it back until the singer doesn't sound like T-pain anymore. Give it a day then come back and listen again, chances are you got accustomed to the auto tune and will notice it needs to be dialled back a touch more aha.