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megasy3000



Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 11
Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ?
      #1020954 - 26/11/12 09:26 PM

Hi,


I need help in deciding between these two compact studio monitors (Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40) for mixing and possible light mastering at home. Which would you go for?


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Jonnypopisical



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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1020960 - 26/11/12 09:54 PM
Focal

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jaminem
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1021004 - 27/11/12 08:38 AM
Focal


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megasy3000



Joined: 10/11/09
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: jaminem]
      #1021091 - 27/11/12 04:35 PM
Any reason(s) why the Focal CMS 40 is better than the Genelecs ? are they neutral ....durable e.t.c. ?


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uphillbothways



Joined: 19/11/09
Posts: 190
Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1021142 - 27/11/12 10:54 PM
The Focals are subtly better in all sorts of ways. The most important for me is that they're less fatiguing than Genelecs while still being very revealing. The Genelec sound is very forward and something of an acquired taste. The Focals are front ported, which makes them much easier to place in a room - the low-end is much better behaved if they're close to a wall or corner. The bass extends deeper and is better controlled, the transient response is tighter, the mid-range sounds more natural.

The Genelecs aren't bad monitors by any means, it's just that the Focals are exceptionally good.


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Jeraldo



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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: uphillbothways]
      #1021207 - 28/11/12 02:09 PM
I like the Focals, too, but I also like the Genelecs.

There isn't much of a LF issue involved-I've heard the Genelecs very close to walls, and in a multi boundary location and they're aren't any problems. There is a nominal 6Hz different in in LF extension, well within the specified tolerance limits, with the Genelecs having slightly tighter tolerances.

Both speakers would work very well. I would lean toward the Focals, but would be happy with either. The Genelecs present a more defined stereo image. The Genelecs and Focals have very different builds, if that's a factor. If there are objects in close proximity to the speakers, the Genelecs might be a little more forgiving.

I don't think you'd go wrong either way.


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aarvin2



Joined: 25/10/12
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1021212 - 28/11/12 03:01 PM
None... and specially don't believe in biased people or those who are committed to a brand or people who haven't worked with way better speakers, or those who talk about PLEASING MONITORS.

I say none cause the 8020b are very small speakers which extend to quite low frequency for their size and therefore will have to use ported designs, which in turn will lead to extended woofer excursions(and less controlled excursions + high Qts) which also means production of low harmonics which in turn mean that those harmonics distort and affect the mid frequencies ...etc etc etc

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1017614& ;page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#1017614



Quality studio monitors should only sound pleasing when the mix is pleasing, unlike Focals which make everything sound bearable. (A 2 year Focal Twin user + treated room user speaking, I also had Focals CMS40 for the recording studio)

Cms 40 don't strike a big contrast between bad and great mixes, they are also forgiving with regards to the high mids and high frequencies + the colored low end and mids. I also should add that the stereo image representation + depth representation = very mediocre.

Might be good to amplify your stereo T.V system or find a good place in your kitchen, but as a PRECISION and REVEALING STUDIO TOOL ... no way.

Besides, Focal says that they use 4" speakers in the CMS40 when actually they use 3.5" speakers. Which tells you a lot about the integrity of the company.

You would be way better off with a Neumann KH 120, they are way better precision tools than Focals "Twins". Save some cash and save your health(yups frustration causes health problems).

Sorry I never worked with Genelecs and I cannot advise you on those.

Good luck


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megasy3000



Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 11
Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: aarvin2]
      #1021260 - 28/11/12 07:34 PM

I have seen something similar to these reviews somewhere too. Is it true that the Focal CMS40 sounds the same no matter the material? I heard the Genelec does the exact opposite (which is reassuring, I suppose). I could hear the differences in mixes with my old 6010a.

This is such a difficult decision. Need more advice on these compact monitors.


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megasy3000



Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 11
Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1021311 - 29/11/12 02:02 AM
...

Just discovered a third compact monitor that its said to compete with the CMS40 and 8020b. The Equator D5 has favourable reviews (for mixing) compared to the others.


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narcoman
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1021343 - 29/11/12 10:22 AM
yeah - they don't. They're not bad for the money but they're a they're below the other two.


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megasy3000



Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 11
Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: narcoman]
      #1021405 - 29/11/12 04:15 PM
Quote narcoman:

yeah - they don't. They're not bad for the money but they're a they're below the other two.




Thanks. I'm leaning towards the Genelecs as they are lighter to carry around, and they are durable. One salesperson assured me that he'd mixed all his last studio projects on the 8020b with very good results, and that the CMS40 is less neutral than the Gens when he tried them out (he hates the Focals). He also discouraged me from getting the 6010a.


So, 8020b in dark grey it is then


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narcoman
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1021414 - 29/11/12 04:46 PM
The problem I have with the lower end Genelecs is you are paying for the name a little. Their sub £1000 systems are essentially badged up systems that, from other makers, would come in at the roughly 4 or 5 hundred quid mark. The BIG genelecs are the business - the small ones I'm a bit "hmmmm" about.

The 6010a are worthless junk as far as accurate monitoring goes!! Useful to have in the live room for people to listen on playback; but then again why not get some low end Wharfdales that do the same and pay a lot less!! haha


If I were you I'd try to listen to both of those speakers - the Gennys and the Focals.

I have some very high end monitors for work - but for mobile gigs the CMS 40s were a real no brainer. I tried the Gennys too (okay i tried them with a bit if a bias) and I'd wager I've mixed a few more "projects" than the salesman. Try them both yourself.....


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megasy3000



Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 11
Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: narcoman]
      #1021420 - 29/11/12 05:19 PM
Quote narcoman:




If I were you I'd try to listen to both of those speakers - the Gennys and the Focals.







Thanks. I listened to both the Gens and Focals the other day. Still hard to tell which would translate better because the CMS40 made every track I played through it sound the same. The 8020b played the tracks according to how they probably sounded wherever it was mixed. I just don't know why the focals sounded exactly like my old Edirol MA-10A speakers.

This is a tough decision.


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narcoman
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1021423 - 29/11/12 05:27 PM
where these mastered mixes? Or where these pieces you know yourself?


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megasy3000



Joined: 10/11/09
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: narcoman]
      #1021438 - 29/11/12 07:52 PM
They were commercial mixes (iTunes bought mp3 mostly). That was all I had in the store. But we're talking 4 different albums in various genres.They all sounded very bright and clear on the CMS40, but some tracks sounded dark and clear on the 8020. It was as if the Gens were neutral. However, this could be due to the back vs front bass port.

I am starting to lean towards the Focals mainly because of the low end. In the studio/store, the CMS40 seem to have that separation between the high and low end more than the Genelec, which has better (defined) mids.

Edited by megasy3000 (29/11/12 07:53 PM)


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narcoman
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1021468 - 29/11/12 11:18 PM
Well, go with what you'd prefer to work with ... stupid answer I know;


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megasy3000



Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 11
Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? An alternative - EVE SC204 new [Re: narcoman]
      #1021671 - 01/12/12 12:41 AM

Forget about the Focal/Genelec. I listened to the Eve SC204 and the CMS, and the Eve won on clarity and imaging, especially in the low end. The only point I'd give to the CMS40 is one in the way of upper mids.The separation that the SC04 provides made it an easy win for me. I bought a pair afterwards. I really like this new monitors. If I had the desk space I would have gone for the larger SC205 with its 5" inch woofer. Beautifully designed monitors and excellent pricing to boot.


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nikHz



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Posts: 212
Loc: London, UK.
Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: megasy3000]
      #1034785 - 23/02/13 12:07 AM
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I was looking at the above monitors and also had my eye on the new EVE Audio SC204s...
I have large monitors in my studio for my mains and just need some smaller speakers to act as a portable setup for making music/mixing, a second reference in my studio, and to just kick back and listen to music.
Budget is around £500 and I want SMALL speakers, preferably ones that would compliment my large speakers but also sound good on their own.

Any thoughts? Anyone else have experience with the EVE SC204s?
Thanks!

--------------------
One good thing about music is when it hits, you feel no pain...


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fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: aarvin2]
      #1034822 - 23/02/13 11:26 AM
Quote aarvin2:

None... and specially don't believe in biased people or those who are committed to a brand or people who haven't worked with way better speakers, or those who talk about PLEASING MONITORS.

I say none cause the 8020b are very small speakers which extend to quite low frequency for their size and therefore will have to use ported designs, which in turn will lead to extended woofer excursions(and less controlled excursions + high Qts) which also means production of low harmonics which in turn mean that those harmonics distort and affect the mid frequencies ...etc etc etc

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1017614&page=2& view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#1017614



Quality studio monitors should only sound pleasing when the mix is pleasing, unlike Focals which make everything sound bearable. (A 2 year Focal Twin user + treated room user speaking, I also had Focals CMS40 for the recording studio)

Cms 40 don't strike a big contrast between bad and great mixes, they are also forgiving with regards to the high mids and high frequencies + the colored low end and mids. I also should add that the stereo image representation + depth representation = very mediocre.

Might be good to amplify your stereo T.V system or find a good place in your kitchen, but as a PRECISION and REVEALING STUDIO TOOL ... no way.

Besides, Focal says that they use 4" speakers in the CMS40 when actually they use 3.5" speakers. Which tells you a lot about the integrity of the company.

You would be way better off with a Neumann KH 120, they are way better precision tools than Focals "Twins". Save some cash and save your health(yups frustration causes health problems).

Sorry I never worked with Genelecs and I cannot advise you on those.

Good luck




Funny post. Dont buy 8020s because they are ported but do buy KH120 that are as well. Dont believe in biased people but Focal have no integrity because of the way they measure their bass drivers. What happens if their power amps put out 26W instead of 25W? Also you owns some Focal Twins even though the KH120s are "way better" and half the price. Never worked with Genelecs but they have out of control bass drivers. Small speakers with reasonable bass will have to use ports??? They dont have to, Genelec have decided to as there is no "have to" here. Perhaps you could try a sealed box and lower the efficiency a bit or maybe a bit of isobaric loading? From what I have seen and heard with Genelecs is that the main focus in their bass loading is the steep roll off at low frequencies. The measurements for some of the larger models give a 6th order roll off. Any LF distortions will come in at the inevitable higher levels. "PRECISION and REVEALING STUDIO TOOL"- no these are £250 speakers. For this money the only monitor you will get that full fills this description are some headphones. And finally, why not pleasing monitors, if they work for you and you get the results you want why not?

For my my 2p's worth, I like the Focals. And I do agree with one this said above, do try to get the best monitors you can. And if these are the CMS40s then great- enjoy making music!! But do take something better than an mp3 in for the audition- you are a bad person

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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


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Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: fay spook]
      #1034831 - 23/02/13 12:44 PM
Quote fay spook:

But do take something better than an mp3 in for the audition




Whilst I would generally agree, none other than Dr John Watkinson (author of The Art of Digital Audio reference book) posited that the quality of a monitor could be evaluated by how easily it reveals lossy-codec artefacts. A really good monitor should reveal the artefacts at 240 or 320kbps, whereas a poor one might struggle to do so at 128kbps... Etc.

H

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fay spook



Joined: 09/09/09
Posts: 315
Re: Genelec 8020b or Focal CMS40 ? new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1034838 - 23/02/13 01:53 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

Quote fay spook:

But do take something better than an mp3 in for the audition




Whilst I would generally agree, none other than Dr John Watkinson (author of The Art of Digital Audio reference book) posited that the quality of a monitor could be evaluated by how easily it reveals lossy-codec artefacts. A really good monitor should reveal the artefacts at 240 or 320kbps, whereas a poor one might struggle to do so at 128kbps... Etc.

H




You wily young fox I see what you mean. But this wasnt what the OP was trying to achieve when listening to mp3s.

I've just stepped out into the cold to get the papers and mulled over this a little. As always I recommend getting out there to audition. Choose the ones you like (like for whatever reason) and then learn to use them, ie what they do to your mixes. In much the same way as which DSLR, you can argue the t*ss all day about Nikon or Pentax etc but the best photographs will come from someone with a good eye for a picture helped by being able to use the camera properly. And a good photographer will embarrass you and your expensive DSLR with their pictures taken on a compact.

If you are looking at a £250 speaker I would assume this isnt the main monitor in a top pro studio. I would imagine any monitor in this price range from a know manufacturer will be able to let you hear the difference between a drum and a guitar. They will sound at least as good as most of the systems music is heard on. If you are making a demo the difference between a track mixed on one £250 monitor or another will not be the deal breaker either. Yes, get the best monitor you can but dont let the fact you cant afford £500 stop you making music or use it as an excuse for not having pretty good mixes. You CAN make good music with modestly priced equipment.

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash


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