So they may have got this one spot on this time.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/29/microsoft_announces_surface_win8_p ricing/

64GB SSD edition for $899
128GB SSD edition for $999

We'll have to wait to see how that translates to sterling and euros as my convertor says £560 and £625 where I'm fully expecting £699 & £799 sort of price points (hopefully not more).

For all intents and purposes this is for an i5 ultrabook in tablet form, able to run X86 code (if it runs on your desktop, it'll run on this) and has a full compliment of USB and other such connectivity.

For a live performance tool this could be awesome; I personally can't wait to get Ableton, Cantabile, Traktor up and running on one!

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

So they may have got this one spot on this time.

---

Hmm, a bit too late to cash in on xmas. Perhaps not quite spot on timing-wise. Oh, right, the Win8 Pro version is a biz tablet, nobody buys those in December...

But wait, isn't the Win RT version supposed to compete with iPad? Oops...

Still, if they can turn a profit pricing the Win8 Pro models like that then great, although I'm surprised there's no 256 GB SSD model.

Apple have really dropped the ball anyway, failing to offer a Mac tablet (Macbook Air Touch, anyone?), so maybe M$ can succeed with Surface if it actually lives up to its billing. Always nice to have more options, and Apple does need some serious competition. Heck, maybe it'll even drive the prices down some on those uber-expensive Win tablets from Fujitsu and others.

<sent from my convertable Win XP tablet with built-in TI Firewire>

I've just had one of my guys here point me at the Acer Iconia W700 that is due to land shortly for around £750.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/acer-iconia-w700_Tablet_review

Same spec as the Surface Pro with a slightly bigger screen at that price point. It also seems to have a USB port expander built into the cradle. Think I want to get my hands on one of those too!

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

I am certainly keen to acquire one of these.

All my IT setup at Feline HQ is Windows (well, if you don't count the Sinclair ZX Spectrum emulator), and so one snag with all these new-fangled iPads and other tablets has always been their bespoke OS's that weren't compatible with my desktop.

Having Win8 Pro as the OS on both tablet and main PC will be so much handier, particularly if the tablet also has ordinary USB connectors. Any virtual instruments I own will run on both, easy peasy.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote Goddard:

---

Hmm, a bit too late to cash in on xmas. Perhaps not quite spot on timing-wise. Oh, right, the Win8 Pro version is a biz tablet, nobody buys those in December...

---

Yeah, I think that's the reason behind it, get the consumer one into the wild for xmas and then hit the businesses before the end of the financial year to mop up any spare budget.

Quote Goddard:

---

But wait, isn't the Win RT version supposed to compete with iPad? Oops...

---

H E H

Quote Goddard:

---

Still, if they can turn a profit pricing the Win8 Pro models like that then great, although I'm surprised there's no 256 GB SSD model.

---

I'm sure we'll be due a range refresh in 6 months that will have that covered... Dunno, maybe they just wish to keep the price sub $1000 to keep it looking attractive?

Quote Goddard:

---

Apple have really dropped the ball anyway, failing to offer a Mac tablet (Macbook Air Touch, anyone?), so maybe M$ can succeed with Surface if it actually lives up to its billing. Always nice to have more options, and Apple does need some serious competition. Heck, maybe it'll even drive the prices down some on those uber-expensive Win tablets from Fujitsu and others.

<sent from my convertable Win XP tablet with built-in TI Firewire>

---

That's very true through, whilst the big names get the spotlight we've got to consider the knock on effect of pricing across the board. If it starts to move the prices south we're all going to benefit nicely and having seen that leaked Intel SOC roadmap that is kicking around, it looks like we could be seeing some interesting X86 based tablets coming in at bargin prices over the next few years.

All that coupled with ARM ramping up what they can do performance wise and continued pressure from Apple's market segment means we should continue to see some great tech leaps and hopefully price drops in the tablet sector over the next few years.

Wonder when the first Thunderbolt ones are arriving to give your current unit its update

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

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Wonder when the first Thunderbolt ones are arriving to give your current unit its update

---

Ha! Sold off a Macbook, but held on to the XP tablet. Kept waiting for Apple to offer a touch Macbook, but nope.

Was in an electronics arcade in HK last year and found several touch tablets on offer which could boot both Android and Win 7, running multi-core Tegra processors but of course with no FW port so I passed, and in Japan I came across some Win 7 tablets but alas also no FW ports so passed again.

Ended up with an iPad, no regrets so far, have acquired a couple of docking audio interfaces and am enjoying low latency performance with some fun and capable apps. No desire/need for a Surface or another Macbook now, thank you.

Quote Pete Kaine:

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For a live performance tool this could be awesome; I personally can't wait to get Ableton, Cantabile, Traktor up and running on one!

---

Yeah, it really could

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PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

Hi all

The Microsoft announcement is here:

http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2012/11/29/next-up-for-t he-surface-family-surface-with-windows-8-pro-pricing.aspx

I'm looking forward to this one coming out. I've been playing around with the RT form factor and have been impressed (this was in a customer environment).

I would love to see a version of the Animoog for RT though and also Roland re-platform their app to control my JP80 for use both in RT and Win 8.

(Note that I do work for Microsoft).

Thanks

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Sabbs

Quote Sabbs:

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(Note that I do work for Microsoft).

---

And can get us all one cheap yeah?

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PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

I wish. There are internal policies that don't allow this unfortunately, sorry.

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Sabbs

Giving this a bump as after mulling over what laptop to buy, being tempted by touchscreen laptops and then when trying out a wonderful Samsung laptop which despite only having a 10" was full 1080p, and THEN when trying it out being shown that THE SCREEN COMES OFF AND IT'S A TABLET! Basically I can't settle for a conventional laptop now.

That said Samsung is £1000 and apparently has appalling battery life, so I'm lining up for a Surface Pro, the type keyboard (have you used the touch keyboard on a Surface? Good grief it is a horrible thing) and a compact 1TB USB HD. Shame it only has 1 USB port.

Any updates on pricing and release date?

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http://www.jeremycorbett.co.uk

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of these too.

Unfortunately, knowing the US retail price is next to useless.

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Composer;
www.ogonline.org

Can't be long til the announcements now!
MS Office 2013 comes out on 29th Jan, perhaps the Surface Pro will too.

The more I know about Windows 8 (I've installed it on two desktops now) the more excited I am about being able to run it on a tablet. There's a lot of very nice cloud-based, touch-friendly and admin features which will make it very nice to work with and to integrate with my desktop DAW.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

is this bleddy thing ever coming out in the UK?

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

I just asked the question to the UK channel manager who's currently sat in office and he remained tight lipped, so I suppose it's going to rest on how the USA launch goes and how quickly production ramps up.

One of the lads here picked up that Acer Iconia W700 that I mentioned up top yesterday and I was playing around with it earlier. It has the same specs as the MS S Pro without the digitzer built in (so no stylus, not a deal breaking IMO) for a few hundred quid less than the suspect list price of the MS unit. It has the same i5 spec, so when my sample finally lands (and not smashed in transit like last time) I'm going to start throwing audio applications at it to see what happens.

The laptop i5 in there is probably closer to a desktop i3 so I wouldn't expect anything amazing, but it could tick more than few boxes if it plays well with others.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

For all intents and purposes this is for an i5 ultrabook in tablet form, able to run X86 code (if it runs on your desktop, it'll run on this) and has a full compliment of USB and other such connectivity.

For a live performance tool this could be awesome; I personally can't wait to get Ableton, Cantabile, Traktor up and running on one!

---

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

Acer Iconia W700 ... for a few hundred quid less than the suspect list price of the MS unit. It has the same i5 spec, so when my sample finally lands ... I'm going to start throwing audio applications at it to see what happens.

The laptop i5 in there is probably closer to a desktop i3 so I wouldn't expect anything amazing, but it could tick more than few boxes if it plays well with others.

---

Given it is laptop innards would be useful to know which i5 tablet hardware & tweaks would be most suitable. 5hr running a handful of full fledged audio programs is nice, thus a low wattage iseries intel.


...

Quote Goddard:

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Apple have really dropped the ball anyway, failing to offer a Mac tablet (Macbook Air Touch, anyone?)

---

Yes, dual booting Air Touch with Windows would have favoured creative types.
Apple dropped the ball similarly as Steve Jobs said when he refused crt imacs to have a cdburner when people were ripping music from kazaa, napster.


...


OS win8 could have had dual nt kernel .... One kernel stripped bare thus allowing user choice to have fully fledged creative programs launch as apps, the other kernel to look and feel as traditional windows with business and productivity programs running as they would in usual windows.
When installing programs the choice of location accordingly.

still no UK launch date for the Surface Pro!

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

I've still not seen anyone with a normal one.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

well not sure what anyone would buy a normal one! It can't run ordinary windows x86/x64 apps.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Fair enough. I didn't realise they were releasing them in two types, but just read a review of the Pro and it seems to lean more towards being a laptop than a tablet.

I also read some scathing comments from Samsung about Win 8.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

fine, all the more Windows 8 for me!

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

I saw someone with a Surface RT in Marseille a couple of weekends ago.

A very nice device indeed. I was instantly hooked. Feels better than an ipad to hold. Shame there was no wifi as the start screen seemed kind of dumb without it.

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Composer;
www.ogonline.org

Surely you mean there was no WiFi in Marseille, not that the Surface RT does not have onboard WiFi?

My modest requirements (based around sample libraries) 2006 IBM x60 dual core running below capacity at 1ghz to stay cool, 4gb ddr2 667, 7200 scorpio black, Win7, 8cell extended battery, sufficed.

Just today tried out in Curries ten point touchscreen 11.6" Asus S200e-ct157h full Win8 £359.
987 1.5ghz dual core 17w tdp (i3 is 34w) 2mbL3 sandy bridge 32nm ...it is as approx 2.2ghz of my x60 core duo,
(would have preferred 2117u 1.9ghz dual core 17w tdp 2mbL3 ivy bridge 22nm).

Touch screen rather nice.
5hr battery ... Less than 5 im not interested.

SSD 128gb to replace supplied 500gb.

Years with midi controllers and mouse put me off daw. Touchscreen & Multipoint OS touch i have been waiting over ten years.

Quote twotoedsloth:

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Surely you mean there was no WiFi in Marseille, not that the Surface RT does not have onboard WiFi?

---

Yes, I meant that. :P

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Composer;
www.ogonline.org

FWIW, it appears MS have been having problems supplying the Pro into the US market since launching there last month, especially the 128GB model. None of the stores I visited while in the US recently had any in stock or even on display, and were advising to order online from MS or else pre-order and then wait. So possibly MS are delaying launching into other markets until their supply stream problems are resolved.

Quote table for two:

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ten point touchscreen 11.6" Asus S200e-ct157h full Win8 £359.
Pentium 987 1.5ghz dual core 17w tdp (i3 is 34w) 2mbL3 sandy bridge 32nm).

Touch screen rather nice.
5hr battery ... Less than 5 im not interested.

SSD 128gb to replace supplied 500gb.

---

Alumimium lid, aluminium top chasis. Take out the ASUS logo it could easily pass for a Macbook.

I had seriously considered IPAD2, but IPAD2 wont run my Logic8, Cakewalk Dimension Pro, Hollowsun Novachord, and many other soon to purchse Hollowsun sample based libraries.

Reading on line, dimming the screen of the Asus S200e Pentium Dual core 987 (not i3) i should be able to get 6hrs+ possibly up to 8, since once samples are loaded, the cpu wont be tasked as it would if i was audio processing, running soft synths.

I havent been this taken with a Windows workflow for a long time, actually since Win2K (my fave windows).
The possibiltites of mutiltouch & win8 has reignited dying embers.

Quote table for two:

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Reading on line, dimming the screen of the Asus S200e Pentium Dual core 987 (not i3) i should be able to get 6hrs+ possibly up to 8, since once samples are loaded, the cpu wont be tasked as it would if i was audio processing, running soft synths.

---

Reading up, there is an ultra low voltage i3 3217u 17w tdp of this Asus touchscreen 11.6" ... £419.
Adding 256gb SSD SATA3 pprox £150 ... Should increase battery performance ... Most important factor for me after touchscreen.
Adding 4gb mem to take it to 8gb
1.38kg same as MacAir 13.3.


Surface pro for me its the touchscreen, else afaik cant upgrade ssd nor mem.
FOr me SurfacePRo price is quite a premium.
Furthermore, having been using a Blackberry Tablet, there are times a proper kb & trackpad are missed.

IF i can get the Asus to 20ms latency thats plenty low for my basic, considering i was using business laptops for music.

the Surface Pro has an SD slot so you can expand the storage.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote feline1:

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the Surface Pro has an SD slot so you can expand the storage.

---

Just now read a review of Surface Pro (64GB SSD : after Win8 29GB; 128GB : 89GB left). I think this could be streamlined.
I want SSD space for sample libraries, im not sure how one of the fastes microSD cards would perform, SanDisk Extreme Pro microSDHC says 95MBytes/s read which would be fine but that's a fair amount of ££per GB & max Surface Pro takes is 64GB.

Surface Pro has a full size USB3, i could intsall samples on an ext USB3 SSD drive.

Quote table for two:

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Furthermore, having been using a Blackberry Tablet, there are times a proper kb & trackpad are missed.

---

Surface Pro I just saw has that neat magnetic cover which has keyboard & trackpad, i will have to try it.
Weight 0.907kg is 0.473kg lighter than the Asus 11.6" touschscreen 1.38kg.

Being an i5 i wonder how quiet is Surface Pro, along with battery life and the usual DAW test performance.

...

Quote table for two:

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Reading up, there is an ultra low voltage i3 3217u 17w tdp of this Asus touchscreen 11.6" ... £419.

---

I should have added this is the latest IvyBridge 22nm.
Hopefully should see an increase in battery performance from previous SandyBridge 32nm.

...


Surface Pro i5-3317U IvyBridge 22nm 17w tdp http://ark.intel.com/products/65707/Intel-Core-i5-3317U-Proc...
Asus S200e i3-3217U IvyBridge 22nm 17w tdp http://ark.intel.com/products/65697/Intel-Core-i3-3217U-Proc...

Both have 2 cores & 2 virtual cores, 3MB L3, DMI 5GT/s, max mem bandwidth 25GB/s
Major difference : i5 turbo boost up to 2.6Ghz (useful if i was running softsynths & audio processing, i run mostly samples).

Asus touch I can add memory up to 16GB & install 256GB SSD internally ... bringing it upto Surface Pro 64GB price.
Surface Pro i can add 64GB microSD approx £120 (16GB £35) & external USB3 caddy with SSD inside
but cant add to memory nor increase SSD internally.

Quote table for two:

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Surface Pro ... Weight 0.907kg is 0.473kg lighter than the Asus 11.6" touschscreen 1.38kg.


...


Surface Pro i5-3317U IvyBridge 22nm 17w tdp http://ark.intel.com/products/65707/Intel-Core-i5-3317U-Proc...
Asus S200e i3-3217U IvyBridge 22nm 17w tdp http://ark.intel.com/products/65697/Intel-Core-i3-3217U-Proc...

Both have 2 cores & 2 virtual cores, 3MB L3, DMI 5GT/s, max mem bandwidth 25GB/s
Major difference : i5 turbo boost up to 2.6Ghz (useful if i was running softsynths & audio processing, i run mostly samples).

Asus touch I can add memory up to 16GB & install 256GB SSD internally ... bringing it upto Surface Pro 64GB price.
Surface Pro i can add 64GB microSD approx £120 (16GB £35) & external USB3 caddy with SSD inside
but cant add to memory nor increase SSD internally.

---

Ideally I would like an upgradeable i3 win8 tablet ... Memory and SSD.
Someone will bring out such later in the year, by which time Intel Haswell should be mainstream ... May well deliver longer life battery.
I can wait.

Quote table for two:

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there is an ultra low voltage i3 3217u 17w tdp of this Asus touchscreen 11.6" ... £419.

---

There are places now doing this under £400 (ebuyer £380), possibly due to Intel Haswell line coming, which when it does will probably be the typical new premium price.
Thus right now for me this Asus VivoBook S200e i3 3217u touchscreen is more attractive than surface pro.
Adding 16GB ddr3 approx £95, 256GB SSD approx £150.

I think Q4 there will be an i3 Haswell tablet with upgradebale memory & ssd.

Quote table for two:

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There are places now doing this under £400 (ebuyer £380), possibly due to Intel Haswell line coming, which when it does will probably be the typical new premium price.

---

Thing is Intel doesn't really do premium prices on new kit. The next chip replaces the chip before at around the same price point and they simply stop shipping through the older model. Perhaps you might see a premium on other parts, but I wouldn't expect any serious price movement from what your seeing now, just a bump in spec. CPU's aside the tablets will probably continue to drop but that's probably more to do with uptake in the market sector.

Quote table for two:

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Thus right now for me this Asus VivoBook S200e i3 3217u touchscreen is more attractive than surface pro.

---

Still can't get someone over there to be helpful enough to get one in the post to me.

My sample i5 Acer w700 cropped up today. Just running traktor through it with an S2 hooked up, not amazing but does seem to do the job... cpu load bar is through the roof at a 32 setting mind and only slightly more healthy at a 64. Need to get Reaper on it next I reckon.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Ok, so tested this http://www.acer.co.uk/ac/en/GB/content/model-datasheet/NT.L0QEK.002 which is pretty much the same key spec as the Surface Pro using Dawbench in reaper and got the following results.

Buffer / RXC count
32 - 8
64 - 19
128 - 24
192 - 26
256 - 28

I had to tweak the power settings in the direction of high performance and disable the wifi to make it usable however.

So more than usable for multitrack recording I suspect or as a personal vsti host / effects processor for the stand alone performer. In no way would I suggest however it's going to be a one stop production solution.

On a related note I've just filled out an agreement to loan one of those Asus Ivybridge units for testing next week, so we'll see how that comes out.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

Ok, so tested this http://www.acer.co.uk/ac/en/GB/content/model-datasheet/NT.L0... which is pretty much the same key spec as the Surface Pro using Dawbench in reaper and got the following results.

Buffer / RXC count
32 - 8
64 - 19
128 - 24
192 - 26
256 - 28

I had to tweak the power settings in the direction of high performance and disable the wifi to make it usable however.

So more than usable for multitrack recording I suspect or as a personal vsti host / effects processor for the stand alone performer. In no way would I suggest however it's going to be a one stop production solution.

On a related note I've just filled out an agreement to loan one of those Asus Ivybridge units for testing next week, so we'll see how that comes out.

---

Those are pretty terrible numbers right? With wifi disabled too?

Yeah, it was with wifi off and using a KA6 as the interface.

Going off the experiences I've had with ultrabooks so far using the same CPU I wasn't expecting anything better to be honest. They are low power laptop CPU solutions after all, I'm pretty amazed I got anything usable out of it full stop!

Pulling up a few comparisions it's got about a third of the performance as Q6600 and half the performance of the AMD Trinity system I tested last week. Compare it with a stock quad core i5 however and its got perhaps a sixth of the performance in these tests at best.

Bang per buck is terible, but it's good enough for a Dj set up, a performer wanting to host some effects or a couple of instruments inside a stand alone host or someone wishing to capture a dozen channels of audio in a live situation. Given the form factor that might just be enough for some users to give it some consideration.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

Yeah, it was with wifi off and using a KA6 as the interface.

Going off the experiences I've had with ultrabooks so far using the same CPU I wasn't expecting anything better to be honest. They are low power laptop CPU solutions after all, I'm pretty amazed I got anything usable out of it full stop!

Pulling up a few comparisions it's got about a third of the performance as Q6600 and half the performance of the AMD Trinity system I tested last week. Compare it with a stock quad core i5 however and its got perhaps a sixth of the performance in these tests at best.

Bang per buck is terible, but it's good enough for a Dj set up, a performer wanting to host some effects or a couple of instruments inside a stand alone host or someone wishing to capture a dozen channels of audio in a live situation. Given the form factor that might just be enough for some users to give it some consideration.

---

Seems unlikely! Surely a macbook air is the thing if you want compactness / battery life and power, and if you want cheap you might as well sacrifice weight and looks instead of usability.

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

Yeah, it was with wifi off and using a KA6 as the interface.


Bang per buck is terible, but it's good enough for a Dj set up, a performer wanting to host some effects or a couple of instruments inside a stand alone host or someone wishing to capture a dozen channels of audio in a live situation. Given the form factor that might just be enough for some users to give it some consideration.

---

Oh Does this mean I wouldn't be able to, say, run Modart Pianoteq on it, for instance? I don't have to buy a Muse Receptor after all, do I? :/

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Without having a copy of that in front of me I can't really say. I suspect it'll run an instance or two of most things but past that anything processor heavy is going to make it scream a bit.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

---

Quote table for two:

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Thus right now for me this Asus VivoBook S200e i3 3217u touchscreen is more attractive than surface pro.

---

Still can't get someone over there to be helpful enough to get one in the post to me.

---

I appreciate you for wanting to test this.
I was in John Lewis went back n forth between the Asus & surface RT when i realised over the years the way i sit looking at laptops has given me neck strain.
So tablet it is.

I will wait for Windows Blue update to Win8 then see what Win9 brings.
There may be a nice i3 haswell, broadwell upgradeable tablet then.

Meanwhile i have found a dual core non Atom non Arm tablet that runs win8 rather nice according to user views. Only 2GB mem soldered on & 2X USB2. It will do. I will have to change its slow 32GB mSSD for a faster 64gb or 128gb mSSD.


...

Quote table for two:

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I want SSD space for sample libraries, im not sure how one of the fastes microSD cards would perform, SanDisk Extreme Pro microSDHC says 95MBytes/s read which would be fine but that's a fair amount of ££per GB & max Surface Pro takes is 64GB.

---

I realised how far out of touch i am as just over the weekend i realised there are USB3 flash drives that read 220MBytes/s thats as 3x i was getting from my internal sata 7200rpm scorpio black. At approx £1 a gig i can use these for loading samples.


...

Quote table for two:

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[OS win8 could have had dual nt kernel .... One kernel stripped bare thus allowing user choice to have fully fledged creative programs launch as apps, the other kernel to look and feel as traditional windows with business and productivity programs running as they would in usual windows.
When installing programs the choice of location accordingly.

---

Windows Blue (win8 massive servicepack and more) i just read is going to have MinKernal,
which is doing something similar thereby allowing different MS devices to interchange more readily.