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BigAl
Just The Bass Player


Joined: 24/01/02
Posts: 2682
Loc: The King's Height
Changing gear...
      #1028529 - 14/01/13 01:06 PM
I'm going to be buying a computer soon for recording.
I would be interested in comments regarding PC v Mac and what sound interface I could consider.
I record anywhere between 8 and 16 tracks usually, mostly real instruments and vocals. I am planning on using some sort of computer based drum machine as well as samples for rhythm.
What sort of spec will do the job?

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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Jack Ruston



Joined: 21/12/05
Posts: 4501
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028532 - 14/01/13 01:10 PM
Get the biggest baddest machine you can afford*. Why? Well while most machines can easily record 8-16 tracks of audio, the moment you start messing about with the latest greatest drum kits, pianos, string libraries etc the whole thing has a habit of spectacularly grinding to a halt. And the second you have a machine that runs them easily, the new version with yet another level of 'realism' comes out and you can't run that.

*Within reason. Don't ever buy the top version of any computer because the premium for the fastest chip or the largest amount of ram is always disproportionate. The trick is to buy the second fastest of whatever it is.

J

--------------------
www.jackruston.com


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BigAl
Just The Bass Player


Joined: 24/01/02
Posts: 2682
Loc: The King's Height
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Jack Ruston]
      #1028537 - 14/01/13 01:54 PM
Cheers Jack.
I'm fine with PC specs (work in IT) and have my eye on a couple of machines.
I will probably not go down the laptop route as I'm getting a really high spec one for work which I could use for portable recording, but for my studio, I'll probably go down the desktop route.
How much RAM do these plug-ins actually use?

Isn't it funny how my old trusty AW4416 was invented nearly 20 years ago and it stills works well with 16 track recording.

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.

Edited by BigAl (14/01/13 01:55 PM)


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10719
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028587 - 14/01/13 05:34 PM
For standard tasks there isn't really much between Mac and PC. The real difference becomes apparent when you need to do specialist tasks where there's possibly only one piece of software that will do what you want. Have a good think about what you want to do with your computer and try a few software demos to see what you get on with best.

Jack's advice to go somewhere just under the top of the range is good - it will probably halve the price for just a small drop in performance and possibly improve reliability too as you won't be debugging the latest technology.

If you want a decent reliable interface then take a look at the RME range. My personal preference is to have an audio interface with plenty of digital connections which allows me to use a choice of A/D's without changing my interface.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028635 - 15/01/13 12:01 AM
Quote BigAl:

Isn't it funny how my old trusty AW4416 was invented nearly 20 years ago and it stills works well with 16 track recording.



Because that's what it was designed to do ... unlike a 'puter which, to snag your sig, is a jack of all trades and master of some!

--------------------
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Dynamic Mike



Joined: 31/12/06
Posts: 2006
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028641 - 15/01/13 01:20 AM
I imagine most modern desktops will run 16 tracks plus effects comfortably. What you don't want though is 16 accumulated tracks of fan noise, go for the quietest. IT guys tend to mentally switch out fan noise like people who live on a main road do with traffic. After 29 years I can barely hear my wife...another couple of years & I reckon I'll be lip-reading.

And take a copy of DCP latency checker with you before you buy.

--------------------
Disclaimer: The views or opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the poster by the time you read this.


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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028642 - 15/01/13 02:07 AM
PC, for the love of god dont get a mac, you cant upgrade them yourself and theres more software and hardware options and flexibility for pcs.
honestly IMHO macs (although they ARE powerful machines in some respects) are a gimmick, youll realise this the first time you have to book an appointment take your computer to a 'genius' for him to tell you you need a new graphics card, when youve already come to the conclusion yourself via your own diagnostics but you need special permission to crack open the steel casing so as not to void your expensive ass extended warranty. iphones are great, ipads are great, but honestly, if you cant afford the top of the line apple product, any of their lower tiered products is gonna leave you unsatisfied and wanting more.
PC all the way, look at it like this: you cant run a Large Hadron Collider with a mac.
www.centrecom.com.au - i bought a custom desktop for $1100 and it beats the $4000 mac desktop version in leaps and bounds. 8gb DDR3 ram, quad core i5 3.2ghz, 2gb overclocked nvidia graphics card, 1tb HDD etc. custom desktops are the ONLY way haha good luck with your purchase!

Edited by Skerrick (15/01/13 02:10 AM)


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Skerrick]
      #1028643 - 15/01/13 03:09 AM
Quote Skerrick:

PC, for the love of god dont get a mac, you cant upgrade them yourself and theres more software and hardware options and flexibility for pcs.



What utter cock!

My Mac is upgraded to the hilt, done by myself with non-Mac components. Cost less than your PC and goes like sh!t off a chrome plated, vaseline smeared shovel.

Quote Skerrick:

but you need special permission to crack open the steel casing so as not to void your expensive ass extended warranty



More cock.

There may be more s/w for PCs but a lot of it is shite and I wouldn't pollute my disk drive with it.

I am no Mac evangelist - au contraire ... they are just tools - but your post appears like you copied and pasted it from some old PC-head thread from the early 90s!

Please don't perpetuate this ancient and total arsewash.

----

MacPro Tower - 2009 2 x 3.0GHz Dual-Core Intel CPU, 16GB RAM, 4.5TB of storage, 2TB Time Machine drive, 2 x 2560x1440 monitors, Firewire/USB hubs on PCIe cards, audio/MIDI IO, Matias keyboard, Logitech wireless mouse, Creative USB webcam for Skyping and more s/w than I know what to do with!

Family 'puter is a Mac Mini with some USB drives hanging off it and cheapo wireless keyboard/mouse and 23" 1920x1200 monitor (forget the make off hand - something I snagged off the interwebs for next to nothing).


--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog


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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: hollowsun]
      #1028646 - 15/01/13 03:59 AM
Quote hollowsun:

Quote Skerrick:

PC, for the love of god dont get a mac, you cant upgrade them yourself and theres more software and hardware options and flexibility for pcs.



What utter cock!

My Mac is upgraded to the hilt, done by myself with non-Mac components. Cost less than your PC and goes like sh!t off a chrome plated, vaseline smeared shovel.

Quote Skerrick:

but you need special permission to crack open the steel casing so as not to void your expensive ass extended warranty



More cock.

There may be more s/w for PCs but a lot of it is shite and I wouldn't pollute my disk drive with it.

I am no Mac evangelist - au contraire ... they are just tools - but your post appears like you copied and pasted it from some old PC-head thread from the early 90s!

Please don't perpetuate this ancient and total arsewash.

----

MacPro Tower - 2009 2 x 3.0GHz Dual-Core Intel CPU, 16GB RAM, 4.5TB of storage, 2TB Time Machine drive, 2 x 2560x1440 monitors, Firewire/USB hubs on PCIe cards, audio/MIDI IO, Matias keyboard, Logitech wireless mouse, Creative USB webcam for Skyping and more s/w than I know what to do with!

Family 'puter is a Mac Mini with some USB drives hanging off it and cheapo wireless keyboard/mouse and 23" 1920x1200 monitor (forget the make off hand - something I snagged off the interwebs for next to nothing).






WOW, how rude. im not gonna throw insults at you, im just gonna state a fact or two.
okay, so apart from someone whos obviously a mad techie like you yourself seem to be, the guy posting the questions to this forum is obviously not, otherwise he wouldnt need to ask.
cracking open your macbook voids the warranty. FACT.
if youre not a techie, you need that warranty.because your macbook WILL fail. if a pc fails, in most cases (pardon the pun) you just replace the part.
also, correct me if im wrong but pc parts are cheaper, MUCH cheaper, and universally usable across a wider range of units and brands, whereas you want a well priced pc component for a mac, and you cant use it. amirite? is it not all specialist parts and ribbon cable connectors? i could be wrong but even so, pc is cheaper and more reliable. and the whole stigma of macintosh is basing an industry around its own products, notice how they invented firewire, they dont accept standard VGA screen cables, everything needs a pc-to-mac adapter and its always an expensive and annoyingly necessary option.
and yeah, i didnt copy and paste anything from the 90's. LOL.
i got an asus laptop with a 350GB hdd, quad core i5 3.2ghz, 4gb ddr3 ram, and 1.5gb nvidia dedicated GX graphics card custom built for $1000. my pc is even better and i got it custom for $1100. the mac equivalent of either of these, is well over $2500 at the cheapest. i got 2 monster computers for less than the price of the most ideal macbook.
PLUS plugins wise, there are wayyy more vst's and such that have been designed almost exclusively for pc, granted, there are pros and cons of both systems, i just find that the pros of a pc far outweigh the pros of a mac.
all i was saying was that from personal experience youd be better off going with a custom pc. but thats just my opinion, it most certainly isnt 'cock'
peace.


--------------------
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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Jack Ruston]
      #1028657 - 15/01/13 06:19 AM
Quote Jack Ruston:


*Within reason. Don't ever buy the top version of any computer because the premium for the fastest chip or the largest amount of ram is always disproportionate. The trick is to buy the second fastest of whatever it is.

J




i strongly diasgree man, (unless youre referring to a PC) - if this fella is going with a mac, hes gonna want top of the line or hes wasting his time, thats the problem with macbooks and mac desktops. 'the only good one is the best one' and although theyre awesesome, theyre effing expensive, like i said before, i got 2 pimped out custom pc's (one laptop one desktop) for less than the price of a pimped out mac.

trust me if youre getting any macbook that isnt top of the line, youre gonna regret it something fierce later on down the line. by all means get a real good one, but dont waste your money on anything less than the best with macs, with pcs you can chop and change cheap/good parts really easily, so you can do a piece by piece upgrade as time goes by, rather than waiting with a crappy outdated (eventually) machine while you try and save for a new one..
again, thats just my advice but its worked for me.
good luck again my man.

--------------------
www.soundcloud.com/skerrick


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4392
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028672 - 15/01/13 09:17 AM
I see this has descended into a mac vs pc 'argument'.

My Mac Pro is simple to upgrade, pull the lever at the back, pop off the side, install components. All my previous Macs were the same. Never been to a Mac shop, never bought a new Mac, never needed a 'genius' (what a stupid term for a shop assistant).

I'm pretty sure a Pentium 1 PC could run 16 tracks like the Tascam, provided you didn't ask it to do much else, so the comment about PCs isn't quite right either. It is just that we now expect PCs to be both tape recorder, rack of effects and mixer.

I'm pretty sure most laptops are not simple to open and upgrade so it really isn't worth discussing. Based on the PC forum here though I understand that some laptops just aren't up to the job, so that is something worth researching should you be considering a laptop.

As for the OP I think Jack has the correct view, get the best you can afford and then try not to stuff it full of every free plug in under the sun! Slowly try new things and get used to them, disregard those which add no functionality. Most programs work on both platforms, but there will be some software which is platform exclusive so do your research before you buy and make sure that it is VST compatible on the Mac as I have found some software is AU only, but I use Cubase.

--------------------
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http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1387
Loc: Belfast
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028676 - 15/01/13 09:45 AM
Quote BigAl:

I'm going to be buying a computer soon for recording.
I would be interested in comments regarding PC v Mac and what sound interface I could consider.




The recording software is the important decision IMHO.

You should first look at which software would would prefer to use.
There are quite a few DAWs out there which do the same basic job, but their workflows are different.
Try to find out which one works best for you - that decision might decide which computer platform you should look at.
eg If Logic floats your boat, you need a mac, if Sonar, you'll be on a PC.

If it's Cubase or another crossplatform program, only then do you have to suffer the Mac v PC battles!
And as you probably know from these forums, Mac v PC debates attract too many "closed mind open keyboard" experts....

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.


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Chevytraveller
member


Joined: 13/05/00
Posts: 735
Loc: London
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Skerrick]
      #1028687 - 15/01/13 11:01 AM
Quote Skerrick:


cracking open your macbook voids the warranty. FACT.






Sorry dude, but you are completely wrong and writing the word "Fact" in capitals doesn't make you any less wrong.
I have upgraded all of my Mac laptops over the years(now on my 9th) without invalidating any warranties.
I have upgraded using cheaper components sourced from places like Crucial and my current 17"MBP is sporting a very nice V4 256Gb SSD and a 750Gb 7200 RPM drive. I have only ever had one issue with a Mac(in over 20 years of using them) and it was when it got yanked off a table. Even then I got it going again by reseating everything

If you like the tinkering and changing of many components in your PC and are prepared too faff about with drivers to get them to work without issue or latency then that's great for you and by all means continue.
But many musicians have gone the Mac route precisely to avoid all that so they can concentrate on making music. This route has been successful for many (including myself)

platform wars on posts like this are both tedious and unnecessary there are merits and issues with both platforms. If you find something works for you, then great but if you start throwing ill informed and incorrect mud around about other people's choices then you are inviting people to be rude about your words and your choices



--------------------
MBP 15", Motu 896, X-Station, LogicX, Reason7, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emulator II, E-Synth, Obie-4V, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S


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Strangy



Joined: 27/12/04
Posts: 173
Loc: Cardiff, UK
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028691 - 15/01/13 11:11 AM
Getting slightly off topic but don't some of the new macbooks have the RAM factory soldered to the board?!

Anyway, back to the OP’s question: mostly real instruments, 8-16 tracks... fortunately that’s a pretty straightforward task for any modern computer. My 5 year old Q6600 / 4G RAM machine is still competent… as was the PC before it!

If you only plan to do simple mixes, said spec can run as many SSL Duende channel strips / bus compressors / Lexicon reverbs as I want, totally stable. Add simple one shot sample playback with something light like Short Circuit, and again I can add as many instances as I like, without problems…

However... Start running a few virtual instruments or some larger sample banks (e.g. Kontakt with Abbey Road Drums or Alicia Keys Piano etc) and things get very unstable very quickly! Likewise if you want to be able to run the latest ‘character’ plugs on each channel at mix down, e.g. Slate VCC / Tape emus CPU/RAM can max out in no time... In which case re-read Jack’s advice. That’s what I plan to do when I upgrade later this year!

Most DAWs will do what you require with ease so as above post use what suits your workflow. Most DAWs can be demo’d these days. Reaper is very cheap, very adequate and comes with very small resource footprint so I’d give that a try, has many new fans round here.

Possibly the most important factor for multi-track recording on a computer (esp coming from a stable hardware recording solution background) will be finding a stable low-latency sound card. I previously struggled with a firewire interface and could not recommend though many others use Firewire without problems. But that’s another topic for another thread really:)

Another important thing mentioned above = noise. Factor in some budget to make the computer as quiet as possible (or else chuck it in another room!)


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Skerrick]
      #1028723 - 15/01/13 02:07 PM
Quote Skerrick:

obviously a mad techie like you yourself seem to be



Nope. Thick as a brick when it comes to all this! I can assemble a modular synth but wouldn't know a SATA from a satsuma!

A bit of common sense, though, and you can customise your Mac pretty extensively and you don't have to use Apple peripherals or the 'Genius Bar'. The only bit of Apple I have here is the actual 'puter and that was a two year old warrantied refurb bought more cheaply than your Asus lappie. Memory, drives, monitors, keyboard, mouse, webcam, etc. - all 3rd party and bought relatively cheaply (whole thing less than your PC). The only bit of Apple that the family 'puter has is the Mac Mini - the rest is all 3rd party ... no, sorry, I tell a lie - I treated my daughter to a Mac keyboard because she liked the short travel keys ... prior to that though, bog standard USB keyboard.

Rude? Just putting the record straight albeit maybe in a forthright manner for which I don't apologise ... you weren't exactly subtle in your approach ("for the love of god dont get a mac").

I have no truck with the Mac vs PC flame wars but when somebody publishes arrant nonsense that is just wrong, well... !

On the subject of which...

Quote Skerrick:

if youre not a techie, you need that warranty.because your macbook WILL fail



Wrong.

Quote Skerrick:

is it not all specialist parts and ribbon cable connectors?



Nope. Some specialist parts but not "all".

Quote Skerrick:

pc is cheaper and more reliable



Not necessarily and no.

Quote Skerrick:

notice how they invented firewire



You say that as if it's a bad thing! It's a fine interface and I wouldn't be without it.

Quote Skerrick:

they dont accept standard VGA screen cables



They did until recently and even so, a standard £8 off-the-shelf convertor cable from Maplins will sort you out (I don't know about Thunderbolt though but I gather convertors for that are becoming more readily available).

Quote Skerrick:

everything needs a pc-to-mac adapter



No it doesn't.

Quote Skerrick:

and its always an expensive and annoyingly necessary option.



No it isn't.

--------------------
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Dynamic Mike



Joined: 31/12/06
Posts: 2006
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028739 - 15/01/13 03:17 PM
Quote BigAl:

I will probably not go down the laptop route as I'm getting a really high spec one for work which I could use for portable recording, but for my studio, I'll probably go down the desktop route




I suspect the answer to the PC v Mac argument ends here. Get whatever you'll be getting from work, because not all recording software is cross platform. Personally I'd look at Carillon, Scan, Rain etc (search SOS mags) & let them do the thinking for you.

--------------------
Disclaimer: The views or opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the poster by the time you read this.


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Jack Ruston



Joined: 21/12/05
Posts: 4501
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Skerrick]
      #1028752 - 15/01/13 04:15 PM
Quote Skerrick:

Quote Jack Ruston:


*Within reason. Don't ever buy the top version of any computer because the premium for the fastest chip or the largest amount of ram is always disproportionate. The trick is to buy the second fastest of whatever it is.

J




i strongly diasgree man, (unless youre referring to a PC) - if this fella is going with a mac, hes gonna want top of the line or hes wasting his time, thats the problem with macbooks and mac desktops. 'the only good one is the best one' and although theyre awesesome, theyre effing expensive, like i said before, i got 2 pimped out custom pc's (one laptop one desktop) for less than the price of a pimped out mac.

trust me if youre getting any macbook that isnt top of the line, youre gonna regret it something fierce later on down the line. by all means get a real good one, but dont waste your money on anything less than the best with macs, with pcs you can chop and change cheap/good parts really easily, so you can do a piece by piece upgrade as time goes by, rather than waiting with a crappy outdated (eventually) machine while you try and save for a new one..
again, thats just my advice but its worked for me.
good luck again my man.




Well that's your experience and there's no reason why it's any less valid than anyone else's. But I'm running 2010 2.4gHz 8 Core Mac Pro with PT and I can't max that thing out. It's really really powerful. But it was very expensive in relation to what a similar spec PC would have cost. But it's very difficult for me to work with Pro Tools on a PC because I need to keep switching back and forth between commercial rooms and my mix room. Insane though it is, the whole hard drive format thing is STILL a spanner in those works.

I've got nothing against PCs. A mac is just a big PC after all. You can load Mac OS on to a PC of course.

J

--------------------
www.jackruston.com


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G-Doubleyou



Joined: 10/02/06
Posts: 1442
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028763 - 15/01/13 05:06 PM
Pick your software, get the proper platform to run it.



--------------------
G-Dub
Studio G-fx 15inch quad-core i7 Macbook Pro Logic9.1.8, LPX 10.0.3


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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #1028837 - 16/01/13 12:52 AM
Quote Richie Royale:



I'm pretty sure most laptops are not simple to open and upgrade so it really isn't worth discussing. Based on the PC forum here though I understand that some laptops just aren't up to the job, so that is something worth researching should you be considering a laptop.






im pretty sure on the bottom of the laptop theres a separate panel that covers each component (ram, hdd, cpu, etc) which you can lift off to install the new respective part.
i wasnt arguing either man. both sides have clear benefits and the argument is gonna exist for as long as windows pc's and mac's continue to exist.
but i chose pc for the reasons listed plus a few more and im happy with my decision, as im sure you are too.

--------------------
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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Jack Ruston]
      #1028838 - 16/01/13 12:55 AM
Quote Jack Ruston:

Quote Skerrick:

Quote Jack Ruston:


*Within reason. Don't ever buy the top version of any computer because the premium for the fastest chip or the largest amount of ram is always disproportionate. The trick is to buy the second fastest of whatever it is.

J




i strongly diasgree man, (unless youre referring to a PC) - if this fella is going with a mac, hes gonna want top of the line or hes wasting his time, thats the problem with macbooks and mac desktops. 'the only good one is the best one' and although theyre awesesome, theyre effing expensive, like i said before, i got 2 pimped out custom pc's (one laptop one desktop) for less than the price of a pimped out mac.

trust me if youre getting any macbook that isnt top of the line, youre gonna regret it something fierce later on down the line. by all means get a real good one, but dont waste your money on anything less than the best with macs, with pcs you can chop and change cheap/good parts really easily, so you can do a piece by piece upgrade as time goes by, rather than waiting with a crappy outdated (eventually) machine while you try and save for a new one..
again, thats just my advice but its worked for me.
good luck again my man.




Well that's your experience and there's no reason why it's any less valid than anyone else's. But I'm running 2010 2.4gHz 8 Core Mac Pro with PT and I can't max that thing out. It's really really powerful. But it was very expensive in relation to what a similar spec PC would have cost. But it's very difficult for me to work with Pro Tools on a PC because I need to keep switching back and forth between commercial rooms and my mix room. Insane though it is, the whole hard drive format thing is STILL a spanner in those works.

I've got nothing against PCs. A mac is just a big PC after all. You can load Mac OS on to a PC of course.

J




yeah man im just saying, i wouldnt buy the second best in a range of computers, if i was gonna save up for second best i might as well save up for the very best..

--------------------
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Jack Ruston



Joined: 21/12/05
Posts: 4501
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028843 - 16/01/13 07:03 AM
Really? The fastest chips are always so expensive, and a couple of months later they're half the price. I think it's mad to be at the cutting edge with computers. Anyway, each to their own.

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4392
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Skerrick]
      #1028849 - 16/01/13 08:28 AM
Quote Skerrick:


im pretty sure on the bottom of the laptop theres a separate panel that covers each component (ram, hdd, cpu, etc) which you can lift off to install the new respective part.





Macbooks have this as well. Take out the battery and you have access to the RAM and HDD. YOu don't need to crack open the case for the basic stuff, but you would do to change the CPU or graphics card.

--------------------
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http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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Strangy



Joined: 27/12/04
Posts: 173
Loc: Cardiff, UK
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #1028857 - 16/01/13 09:56 AM
Pretty sure that with the latest Mac book the RAM is soldered in place and cannot be swapped/upgraded. A space saving design feature by Apple from what I remember reading...

Not the end of the world but this sounds slightly annoying since every computer/Laptop I've owned has at some point benefitted from new RAM - be it a swapping a dodgy module or upgrading after 2/3 years.


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4392
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1028862 - 16/01/13 11:09 AM
Only the Retinas I think, not 100% sure, but I think the normal MBP can still be upgraded. Not sure why they chose to go that route though.

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Dave Rowles



Joined: 28/02/08
Posts: 1449
Loc: Isle of Man
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #1028875 - 16/01/13 12:06 PM
Only retinas are hard soldered. The "normal" macbook pros you can still switch out the RAM at the very least.

I'm running an 2011 i7 2.2GHz macbook pro 4GB Ram, and I haven't managed to peak it out yet, although I don't perhaps do as big a mixes as Jack. The time before this mac I got the second most powerful macbook you could get and that lasted 5-6 years without any tinkering.

Really, it's all about the software you want to use. I got a mac because I wanted to use Logic. I'd played with each DAW and Logic fitted me best, so I went mac. I also dislike windows as an OS so that was another plus point for me.

Try out software, then make a decision.

--------------------
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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4392
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Dave Rowles]
      #1028898 - 16/01/13 01:14 PM
Quote Dave Rowles:

I also dislike windows as an OS




This has always been the reason why I stayed with Mac when I switched from Windows 95 to OS9.

I've no idea if Windows 7 or 8 would make me switch back, but I've been using Macs for over 10 years now and don't feel the need to.

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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #1029004 - 17/01/13 12:32 AM
Quote Richie Royale:

Quote Dave Rowles:

I also dislike windows as an OS




This has always been the reason why I stayed with Mac when I switched from Windows 95 to OS9.

I've no idea if Windows 7 or 8 would make me switch back, but I've been using Macs for over 10 years now and don't feel the need to.




LOLOLOLOLOL if windows 95 is the reason youve been using mac OS for the last 10 years, i can only suggest you go and try a pc out.

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4392
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1029022 - 17/01/13 09:17 AM
I've no need to try another type of PC, the Mac does what I need. I've seen Windows 7 on my partner's laptop and there was nothing to tempt me. The fact that each time she turns it on there is some update was enough to put me off.

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Dave Rowles



Joined: 28/02/08
Posts: 1449
Loc: Isle of Man
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Skerrick]
      #1029089 - 17/01/13 03:27 PM
Quote Skerrick:


LOLOLOLOLOL if windows 95 is the reason youve been using mac OS for the last 10 years, i can only suggest you go and try a pc out.




Actually I loved windows 98, it was the following versions that killed it for me. Plus the seemingly endless performance tweaks and the need to re-install everything every 6 months to get the performance back seemed like too much of a time sink. I can only afford one computer so my computer needs to do everything.

My wife has a windows 7 PC, and I still dislike it. Played with windows 8 in PC world and couldn't get on with it at all. I'll stick with a mac.

--------------------
www.manninmusic.com Bandcamp
Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Edited by Dave Rowles (17/01/13 03:29 PM)


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21736
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #1029098 - 17/01/13 04:02 PM
Quote Richie Royale:

The fact that each time she turns it on there is some update was enough to put me off.




I was under the impression that OSX automatically checked for updates every week by default, too.

MS normally releases Windows OS updates once a month, although security updates are released promptly at any time.

Regardless, any operating system of the complexity of OSX or Win 7 (etc) is going to have bugs and security weaknesses, as well as needing regular updates to accommodate new products and systems. Updates are an inherent part of any and every developing OS.

Of course, since Macs operate with a very restricted set of hardware options and havn't yet attracted the hackers to the same extent as the PC environment bugs, security weaknesses and especially any compatibility issues may occur or be found less frequently.

Notwithstanding all of that, my PC updates itself regularly and without requiring my attention, and I've not had any problems with it in years. I can't even remember the last time it crashed or suffered a virus problem -- and I've seen PW's big Mac lock up considerably more often!

At the end of the day, Mac or PC -- it's just a computer designed to run software. The important thing is the software you use, not the machine it runs on. People have different preferences for the way the OS works, just as they do for the types of cars they drive or the places they shop for clothes.

The mac/PC arguments are pointless and futile, and usually infested with nonsense and ignorance on both sides. Either form of computer will do the job perfectly well if specified properly. Full stop!

H

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Dave Rowles



Joined: 28/02/08
Posts: 1449
Loc: Isle of Man
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1029100 - 17/01/13 04:08 PM
+1

I don't like windows, but I respect the fact that other people do, and find Macs hard to get on with.

It's the DAW that's more important anyway

--------------------
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Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man


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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1029142 - 17/01/13 10:17 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

I was under the impression that OSX automatically checked for updates every week by default, too.



Nope. And if you DO get an update notice, you can opt out. I can't remember the last time I had an update notice here. And I am generally cautious if/when I do.

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

At the end of the day, Mac or PC -- it's just a computer designed to run software. The important thing is the software you use, not the machine it runs on. People have different preferences for the way the OS works, just as they do for the types of cars they drive or the places they shop for clothes.



Quite.

I favour Macs because I like the OS, dislike Windows and am prepared to pay a premium for the hardware to run that OS (although with one thing and another, a bit of shopping around and some nouse, have bought Macs for less than many PCs).

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

The mac/PC arguments are pointless and futile...



Too right.

I like the Mac OS very much, I dislike Windows very much (but sadly have to use it from time to time ... reluctantly). But that's it. YMMV. Each to their own!

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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1029155 - 18/01/13 12:14 AM
man you all make it sound like owning a pc is a huge hassle.. like its some sort of chore to have one in your house. cmon lets get real.
ive never had a problem past my own faults (drunk/spilling drink on the keyboard etc)
i dont have to tweak anything in my system settings, never have, if you build your pc just right, it runs exactly how you want it to.
i turned off auto update, so i dont have updates running all the time (although my brother's mac desktop seems to tell me he has updates everytime i use it..) and my programs and system are running beautifully, whereas my brother has had his 'super drive' (such a modest company, apple) replaced TWICE and his CD drive has stopped working altogether, because the 'super drive' was installed by a 'genuis' and the genius left out TWO of the 4 screws bolting the drive to the motherboard, so the drive fell off, hit the ribbon cable securing the CD drive to the mobo and ripped the fixture right off the mobo still attached to the cable, and guess what - regardless of whos fault it was, it was out of warranty by 2 months. ergo, superdrive was replaced due to a case of "fix it or we'll take you to small claims court" but the cd drive remains busted, and costs $100's to fix.

AND this mac desktop is only 2 years old, should have spent money on the extended warranty. these things are designed to break lol i swear to god..
PLUS hes had like 3 OS updates, since he bought it which IS a hassle. especially with the amount of bugs apple seems to have, his desktop freezes regularly, and runs slowly. maybe he got an actual dud, but its so bad, he looks at it as a chore to use. he would rather just wait to get to his friends place or use his phone for emails and such.

the way i see it, pc is better for ME (keep in mind this is all just my opinion and personal experience with apple) because from stuff ive seen, theres some pretty awful design faults and applications.. my old housemates (and many others im told) macs could fry an egg on them after an hour of use, and my uni classmate's macbook [not a pro], had the plastic melt and warp off the bottom of the casing.. :s) as well as the issues my brother has had, ive seen how bad a BAD mac can be, and ive seen how hard it can be to rectify a mac related problem.

dont get me wrong, theyre still good machines, its not like they HAVENT invested millions upon millions into design and operation, i guess the main thing is that if it effs up, and if youre out of warranty, be prepared to pay through the arse for new parts and services. OR get a pc and just swap the broken part for between $30 and $150 - most of the parts in my pc i got wholesale.
How much would a mac desktop cost with a 21" screen, 2GB Overclocked Nvidia GX graphics card, intel i5 quad core 3.2ghz, 8gb DDR3 g.skill ram, 1TB HDD, ASUS mobo and 3 extra fans? not incl power supply and such?
cos all that and more (power supply, OS, some software etc) cost me JUST over $1000, ready assembled and delivered from across the country..
which is pretty goddamn awesome. i cant help but imagine the mac version of that setup being any less than $3500...
custom pc's are the way to go in my book, but i use FL studio, so id have to use bootcamp if i had a mac anyway which would cut my performance in half, meaning even a top of the line macbook would be lacking in power.. it just suits my personal preferences, plus if i have a technical issue, I'M the genius! muahahahah!

after seeing my brother sink nearly 3k into a desktop that has since cost him about 800 or 900 in servicing and parts, where i spent a grand and havent spent a dollar on repairs and maintenance since, makes me happy to stand by my decision to be a pc user.
either way, everyone has their platform of choice for a set of reasons probably as specific and worthy as mine, in one way or another, macs and pcs are the same, in so many respects you can get the same job done on either, im just a proud pc user hahah
peace y'all.

--------------------
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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Skerrick]
      #1029170 - 18/01/13 04:55 AM
Strange rant.

I've been using Macs since 1988 and NEVER had any of the the things/problems you refer to. Wasn't that long ago that I bought my Intel Mac to replace my G5 (I needed the Intel CPU for Kontakt) to replace the G4 that served me perfectly, 24/7, for 10 years. And my Intel refurb is rock solid, cost less than your PC (actually less than your Anus lappie) and that's with two 27" monitors and God knows what else.

Quote Skerrick:

man you all make it sound like owning a pc is a huge hassle..



It was for my neighbour. Forever having people round to fix her PC, losing family photos and so on. Cost her lots of money. At my suggestion, she bought a Mac - hasn't had a single issue since and is forever thanking me! She has subsequently turned her family onto Macs and they are loving it after years of PC problems and nonsense. Make of that what you will and believe it or not as you choose.

Quote Skerrick:

these things are designed to break lol i swear to god



Total arsewash. Could say the same thing about Dell, whatever. And a personal experience is my visits to PC World where people are at the tech support desk having problems with the PC they bought just three days previously and are bringing them in for repair!

Quote Skerrick:

PLUS hes had like 3 OS updates, since he bought it which IS a hassle. especially with the amount of bugs apple seems to have, his desktop freezes regularly, and runs slowly



I find that VERY hard to believe. No such problems here since 1988 (over 20-odd years of Mac usage), no such problems on the family Mac, no such problem on the neighbour's Mac. My programmer chums who write the code for the applications you maybe use switched to Macs, run various flavours of Windows across several monitors as well as Mac OS and Linux, whatever, and claim they have the best and most reliable PC ever and they are delighted and chunk in the money which has more than paid off the extra £50 or £100 they might have paid for their Mac ... and no downtime. And none of these people have been to 'The Genius Bar'.

Well, I did once with a particular enquiry about a MacBook that was well out of warranty by several years. They couldn't have been more helpful and sorted me out ... for absolutely nothing, free, gratis.

Quote Skerrick:

i spent a grand and havent spent a dollar on repairs and maintenance since, makes me happy to stand by my decision to be a pc user



You spent that much? They must have seen you coming, sucker! I have never spent that much on a Mac and have had years/decades of trouble-free 'puting doing sound, graphics, product and website design, etc., as well as more mundane tasks with spreadsheets and do forth. In fact, if anything is going to take my Mac down (it happens), it's invariably a Micro$haft app such as MS Office ... Word or Excel or some such.

Sorry, but you're talking bollocks ... or just trolling for fun!

Macs, PCs - doesn't matter ... in much the same way as it doesn't matter whether you choose Ford or Vauxhall or Skoda to get from A to B. And to continue the analogy, some will pay the premium to drive a Mazda MX5 for its sporty wondrousness over a dull (but no doubt practical and economical) Fiat Uno.

But as has been said, each to their own. Me? Mazda MX5!

--------------------
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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4392
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1029220 - 18/01/13 11:32 AM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:


The mac/PC arguments are pointless and futile



Quote Hugh Robjohns:


The mac/PC arguments are pointless and futile



Quote Hugh Robjohns:


The mac/PC arguments are pointless and futile






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twotoedsloth



Joined: 26/01/08
Posts: 601
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: BigAl]
      #1029328 - 18/01/13 11:09 PM
In my experience it is helpful to know your way around both...


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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: hollowsun]
      #1029334 - 19/01/13 01:24 AM
Quote hollowsun:

Strange rant.

I've been using Macs since 1988 and NEVER had any of the the things/problems you refer to. Wasn't that long ago that I bought my Intel Mac to replace my G5 (I needed the Intel CPU for Kontakt) to replace the G4 that served me perfectly, 24/7, for 10 years. And my Intel refurb is rock solid, cost less than your PC (actually less than your Anus lappie) and that's with two 27" monitors and God knows what else.

Quote Skerrick:

man you all make it sound like owning a pc is a huge hassle..



It was for my neighbour. Forever having people round to fix her PC, losing family photos and so on. Cost her lots of money. At my suggestion, she bought a Mac - hasn't had a single issue since and is forever thanking me! She has subsequently turned her family onto Macs and they are loving it after years of PC problems and nonsense. Make of that what you will and believe it or not as you choose.

Quote Skerrick:

these things are designed to break lol i swear to god



Total arsewash. Could say the same thing about Dell, whatever. And a personal experience is my visits to PC World where people are at the tech support desk having problems with the PC they bought just three days previously and are bringing them in for repair!

Quote Skerrick:

PLUS hes had like 3 OS updates, since he bought it which IS a hassle. especially with the amount of bugs apple seems to have, his desktop freezes regularly, and runs slowly



I find that VERY hard to believe. No such problems here since 1988 (over 20-odd years of Mac usage), no such problems on the family Mac, no such problem on the neighbour's Mac. My programmer chums who write the code for the applications you maybe use switched to Macs, run various flavours of Windows across several monitors as well as Mac OS and Linux, whatever, and claim they have the best and most reliable PC ever and they are delighted and chunk in the money which has more than paid off the extra £50 or £100 they might have paid for their Mac ... and no downtime. And none of these people have been to 'The Genius Bar'.

Well, I did once with a particular enquiry about a MacBook that was well out of warranty by several years. They couldn't have been more helpful and sorted me out ... for absolutely nothing, free, gratis.

Quote Skerrick:

i spent a grand and havent spent a dollar on repairs and maintenance since, makes me happy to stand by my decision to be a pc user



You spent that much? They must have seen you coming, sucker! I have never spent that much on a Mac and have had years/decades of trouble-free 'puting doing sound, graphics, product and website design, etc., as well as more mundane tasks with spreadsheets and do forth. In fact, if anything is going to take my Mac down (it happens), it's invariably a Micro$haft app such as MS Office ... Word or Excel or some such.

Sorry, but you're talking bollocks ... or just trolling for fun!

Macs, PCs - doesn't matter ... in much the same way as it doesn't matter whether you choose Ford or Vauxhall or Skoda to get from A to B. And to continue the analogy, some will pay the premium to drive a Mazda MX5 for its sporty wondrousness over a dull (but no doubt practical and economical) Fiat Uno.

But as has been said, each to their own. Me? Mazda MX5!



dont even get me started on dell, making specific parts that only work in dells. those guys are douchebags.

I love how people get all hectic with their swears on this forum. some guy the other day said that i was "talking cock" LOL.
but im not gonna swear at you..

$1000 AUD for each pc works out to about $600 pounds each pc.. so for $1200 pounds, i got 2 pc's (custom built and delivered across the country) that are better than the top of the line commercially available macbook/desktop.
id hardly say i got ripped off... PLUS i ordered each part to my own specifications ONLINE, so no one saw me coming and in that respect, im most certainly not a sucker..
also your 'programmer chums' dont need the genius bar cos theyre programmers. its a silly statement to make, not everyone is a programmer, so unfortunately, like my brother, the larger percentile of the population relies on the genius bar to solve their issues.
im not arguing the point here, macs are good, i have an ipad (which is great for production) and an iphone, id just rather not deal with 14 to 17 year olds wearing shirts that say 'genius' when they cant even tell me the impedance of a pair of their most expensive headphones in stock, even AFTER looking at the back of the box for 5 minutes.
youre right about it all being about personal preference, i just see the pros and cons weighed in the favour of the humble pc for the reasons stated.

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hollowsun



Joined: 20/01/05
Posts: 5582
Loc: Cowbridge, South Wales
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Skerrick]
      #1029342 - 19/01/13 03:35 AM
\/\/aa'evaa!

Pointless and futile as has been pointed out. It's like comparing trousers!

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Skerrick



Joined: 10/01/13
Posts: 262
Loc: Sydney NSW
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: hollowsun]
      #1029344 - 19/01/13 04:09 AM
Quote hollowsun:

\/\/aa'evaa!

Pointless and futile as has been pointed out. It's like comparing trousers!




HEY man! My trousers are better than yours, OKAY??!?!
hahah!

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BigAl
Just The Bass Player


Joined: 24/01/02
Posts: 2682
Loc: The King's Height
Re: Changing gear... new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #1029740 - 22/01/13 01:42 PM
Nail on the head Hugh. They are machines to run software. I don't care what the OS is as long as it runs whatever software I want.
My biggest issue in using a computer for recording is how much faffing around will I be doing when tracking?
Maybe not too much as I know my way around them very well, but capturing music is the goal and multi-trackers do it very well. They are a dying breed.
I did have my eye on an iMac, but the new one is difficult to upgrade unless you buy it from Apple from the factory. A very expensive way of doing it.
I'm getting a laptop at work which is quite a high spec so I may try that out first and see how I get on.
It's a fairly fast i5 with 16GB RAM so if it can't do music well, I think I'll go back to live stereo, acoustic recordings.
I'm going to check out my mate's gear, which is based around UAD PCI cards and plug-ins so quite looking forward to see it working.

Thanks for the comments guys. Food for thought - and opened that old can of worms.

So digital v analogue........??????

--------------------
Jack of all trades, master of some.


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