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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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AKG D5 vs Rode M1??
      #1033764 - 16/02/13 07:32 PM
Hi,

Does anyone have any experience with both of these two mics?

I've been extremely impressed with the AKG D5 and think it's gotta be one of the best value live mics out there at £52!!

The Rode M1 costs £61 which is fairly close the the D5's price and both are cheaper than an SM58.

I am very interested in hearing about peoples experiences of how these mics compare in tone and performance!?

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PSR



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034374 - 20/02/13 06:42 PM
I like my D5s. Sorry M1 is not even on my list of vocal mics worth considering - maybe just through oversight.

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The PSR


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TheChorltonWheelie



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034466 - 21/02/13 08:42 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

Does anyone have any experience with both of these two mics?

I've been extremely impressed with the AKG D5 and think it's gotta be one of the best value live mics out there at £52!!

The Rode M1 costs £61 which is fairly close the the D5's price and both are cheaper than an SM58.





I own both, but, if you look at a recent post about vocal mics, you'll be convinced that the SM58 is the way to go!!!!?

The M1 really suits a mid-range (moving towards top-end) voice, it has great clarity without being overly siblant. It will pick up breathing, and pops if you really blast hard, but a couple of minutes getting used to it would see an end to that. I have a pair of D5's, which I use as alternative's to the SM58, and being honest I don't recall too many times when it wasn't perfect for the job. However, the D5 isn't quite as detailed, towards the top-end, but it's better (albeit slightly) for rejection breathe/pops.

For a shouty singer, I'd go for the D5, or an OM5, for a well-travelled singer the M1 is great.

I don't use either for my own vocals, I use an SE H1, and if you can stretch to that I'd definitely recommend it. It's a condensor, but, it's very well shielded and can be used/handled live without any rumbles. I absolutely love mine, it's the mic that gives me the least amount of hassle and the one that most suits my voice. I have reasonable mic technique, but I don't have to be overly careful with the H1.

Also, see if you can find an OM5, they are expensive but they regularly appear secondhand. That has similar properties to the D5/M1 but with better clarity and better rejection (not that either of those are bad in either of those departments).


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1034484 - 21/02/13 09:43 AM
Yes the D5 is a nice replacement for the SM58. Can't see myself going back to a SM58 after trying the D5, especially as it's cheaper!

I have considered condensers before but have heard these pick up more stage spill, have higher handling noise, are more prone to popping with plosives and are more prone to feedback!??

From the reviews I've read the M1 has less handling noise than the D5? It's interesting to hear you find the M1 a little brighter/more detailed than the D5?
How do you find feedback rejection compares between the D5 and M1?

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Bob Bickerton
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034487 - 21/02/13 09:50 AM
Whilst I'd rate the D5 better than an SM58 for some applications, I didn't rate iftthat highly when I A/B'd with against other mics such as the Sennheiser e840 or e845. I don't know the M1, but what is it you're lookin for in an alternative to the D5? Oh, and some condensers feedback more than an Sm58, but not all. The EV RE510 would have similar feedback rejection but is a wonderfully smooth condenser.

Bob

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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: Bob Bickerton]
      #1034492 - 21/02/13 10:12 AM
Quote Bob Bickerton:

Whilst I'd rate the D5 better than an SM58 for some applications, I didn't rate iftthat highly when I A/B'd with against other mics such as the Sennheiser e840 or e845. I don't know the M1, but what is it you're lookin for in an alternative to the D5? Oh, and some condensers feedback more than an Sm58, but not all. The EV RE510 would have similar feedback rejection but is a wonderfully smooth condenser.

Bob




I hadn't considered the Sennheiser E840 or 845. These appear to cost around £72 new here.

What's the difference between the Sennheiser E8xx and E9xx ranges? I am familiar with the E935 and think it's one of the best live vocal mics I've heard (apart from some of the more expensive Neumanns etc).

I have been really impressed with the D5 as a live vocal mic and am really surprised and how little it costs considering it's performance. As a result I'm wondering how other mics in this similar price bracket compare (Rode M1, Sennheiser E840/845 etc).

I would like to build up a reasonable collection of live vocal mics without having to spend unnecessary amounts of money.

The D5 has been very good so far and I haven't needed to boost any top end of the vocalist that has been using it. I'm wondering if it's possible to buy a live vocal mic that has at least the clarity of my D5 and pop rejection but has less handling noise, even better feedback rejection and even higher output under £70 new?

Not asking for much am I



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Sam Spoons
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034547 - 21/02/13 03:49 PM
+1 for the SE H1, I love mine.


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TheChorltonWheelie



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034553 - 21/02/13 04:05 PM
Quote dickiefunk:

I have considered condensers before but have heard these pick up more stage spill, have higher handling noise, are more prone to popping with plosives and are more prone to feedback!??




The H1 is no more prone to the above than most dynamic mics, and if anything, the handling noise is certainly lower than the D5 (I can't comment on the M1 as it has been a while since I used that on stage).


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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1034555 - 21/02/13 04:16 PM
The SE H1 is also more than double the price of the D5. If I had that budget I would probably buy an Sennheiser E945 or Audix OM7!

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TheChorltonWheelie



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034577 - 21/02/13 06:48 PM
Quote dickiefunk:

The SE H1 is also more than double the price of the D5. If I had that budget I would probably buy an Sennheiser E945 or Audix OM7!




The OP mentions performance, and if that's the case the H1 out-performs both of the above.

It's a shame you're so far away, I have all the mic's mentioned in this thread (save for the E945), and a few more besides, so you could have listened to them all subjectively, rather than having to accept opinion/manufacturers claims.


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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034604 - 21/02/13 11:30 PM
This is very interesting to hear about the SE H1.
Unfortunately I'll have to give this mic a miss due to budget.

I am keen to hear people's experiences with the Sennheiser E840/E845 vs the AKG D5 and Rode M1? I'm also keen to know how the E840/E845 compares to the E935/E945?

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Bob Bickerton
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034656 - 22/02/13 11:52 AM
I got a D5 on appro from a local music shop a while ago and whilst I felt it was less congested than an SM58, it wasn't as open and natural sounding as an e840. I have both the e840 and the e935 and the 840 gets used far more. The e935 seems more suited to rock vocals, whereas I do a lot of acoustic work. Maybe I need to revisit them again. The e845 is a very nice mic that suits certain voices very well. It's not overly hyped, in fact is quite neutral. I put it up against a Neumann KMS105 and was surprised that it had quite an open sound almost related to the 105 in some respects. If had a choice of one bog standard stage dynamic I could use I'd pick the 840.

Bob

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Sam Spoons
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034663 - 22/02/13 12:34 PM
We use Beta 58's and E835/845's for vocals on our PA gigs. The Sennheisers definitely punch above their weight at around half the price of the Betas. Out of interest, the E935/945, Beta 58 and SE H1 are all around the same price £140-160.


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Mike Stranks
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034713 - 22/02/13 04:54 PM
e840s and e845s are some of my favourite mics...

... but beware of hooky 845s... our counterfeiting friends have also moved in on those now...

And of course there's always the e838 - the 'silver' version of the e840 - which will often go for less notes as many people don't like shiny mics.


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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034810 - 23/02/13 09:04 AM
Just been doing some more reading on the Sennheiser mics and am leaning towards one of these after my positive experiences with the E935.
I'm trying to work out the differences between the E835, E840 and E845 mics.
Would I be correct in saying the E840 is a little more open/brighter than the E835?
Also, is the E845 a supercardiod version of the E840?

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ronmac



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034836 - 23/02/13 01:24 PM
I have been using the E840 and E845 as my main mics for festival stages for the past several years, and have been more than satisfied. The 845 is a hyper-card that I often use for drummers or in spots where I want a tighter pickup pattern.

Beware of counterfeits and only buy form a highly regarded source! I got burned, and it is almost impossible to spot the difference by looks alone.

I also own 4 of the D5 and use them as backups or "second stage" mics, and sometimes as a "try this" when a performer (usually one with poor technique) is convinced that the Senns are not working for them. I have never had a seasoned pro reject the E840 or E845 during sound check. Ever.


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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: ronmac]
      #1034844 - 23/02/13 02:50 PM
Quote ronmac:

I have been using the E840 and E845 as my main mics for festival stages for the past several years, and have been more than satisfied. The 845 is a hyper-card that I often use for drummers or in spots where I want a tighter pickup pattern.

Beware of counterfeits and only buy form a highly regarded source! I got burned, and it is almost impossible to spot the difference by looks alone.

I also own 4 of the D5 and use them as backups or "second stage" mics, and sometimes as a "try this" when a performer (usually one with poor technique) is convinced that the Senns are not working for them. I have never had a seasoned pro reject the E840 or E845 during sound check. Ever.




That's interesting.

Is the only difference between the E840 and E845 the pickup pattern?

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ronmac



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034871 - 23/02/13 05:32 PM
E840
Technical Data
Dimensions 1.9 x 7.1 in. (47 x 181 mm)
Frequency response (microphone) 40 - 18,000 Hz
Min. terminating impedance 1,000 Ω
Nominal impedance 350 Ω
Pick-up pattern Cardioid
Sensitivity in free field, no load (1kHz) 2mV/Pa at 1 kHz = -54dB (0 dB = 1V/Pa) = -74 dB (0 dB = 1V/ubar)
Weight 11.6 oz. (330 g)

E845
Technical Data
Dimensions d 1.8 x 7.3 in. (46 x 185 mm)
Frequency response 40 - 16,000 Hz
Min. terminating impedance 1,000 Ω
Sensitivity in free field, no load (1kHz) 1.8 mV/Pa
Weight w/o cable 11.6 oz. (330 g)


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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1034923 - 24/02/13 08:28 AM
How would you describe the tone of the E840 vs E845 vs E935??

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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1037170 - 08/03/13 09:28 PM
What are your thoughts on the EV nD767a or PL44a compared to the Sennheiser E840/E845, AKG D5 or Rode M1??


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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1037375 - 10/03/13 01:01 PM
I've managed to arrange borrowing a Sennheiser E845 and am hoping to find someone where I live that owns some of the others.

If I can't borrow any more to try does anyone have any experiences with the EV N/D767a compared to the SM58, AKG D5, Sennheiser E840 / E845 or Rode M1?

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ronmac



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1037376 - 10/03/13 01:16 PM
Any of the mics that you have listed will work for most situations. You can drive yourself mad trying to distinguish what will be "best" for you, especially if you do not have the ability to do a direct shoot out in a situation that best resembles your intended use.


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Bob Bickerton
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1037437 - 10/03/13 09:09 PM
Happened to be in a situation yesterday where I had a D5 and e840s running at the same time in a nicely tuned system outdoor - it confirmed my previous thoughts that the e840 is far superior. Less hyped, more open.

Bob

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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: Bob Bickerton]
      #1037441 - 10/03/13 09:26 PM
Thanks Bob. Do you know how the EV N/D767a compares to the AKG D5 or E840?

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Bob Bickerton
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1037457 - 11/03/13 12:10 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

Thanks Bob. Do you know how the EV N/D767a compares to the AKG D5 or E840?




I bought a pair of N/D767s sometime ago, specifically because their frequency response shows a pronounced increase in the higher frequencies, which I perceived would be useful on certain female voices, where a high end lift can be both flattering and fashionable. Have a look at the Microphone Data website

However, as it's turned out, (and bearing in mind I'm doing mainly concert work), I'm using condensers on this type of voice in preference, so I haven't used the 767s much at all. I'm picking the 767 may work very well on certain voices only, whereas the 840 and 845 would work well on a broad range of voices. I don't think you would be at all disappointed with 840s or 845s.

If I was only allowed one dynamic vocal mic in my collection, it would be the e840.

I've just remembered the e845s can be sensitive to popping. I fixed this easily by inserting a piece of Rycote foam (from their studio pop filter) behind the grill.

Bob

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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1038057 - 14/03/13 12:06 AM
Quick update. I'm going to have to reduce budget to £50 due to baby on its way.

This means my options will either be the D5 or a secondhand mic.
I'm not keen to buy a secondhand Shure or Sennheiser mic because of all the dodgy fakes everywhere!!

Bob, what are your thoughts on the EV767a compared to the D5?

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cedd



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1038096 - 14/03/13 08:57 AM
A local High School have just bought some of the EV C09 Cobalt mics and for the money they sound pretty ok. With a bit of haggling they've come in just around the £50 mark each, but that's with a large company i've got a relationship with. I have a couple of them for emergency mics and can't really fault them. If you're wanting to buy new with that sort of money then these may well be the best you can afford.

I really like the Nd767, but will agree with what others have said, they've got a presence peak that favours female vocals. It does bring a nice crispness, but it's nothing that you can't do with a good bit of channel EQ anyway.

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Chris
Radio Communications and Electronics Engineer within the Aviation Industry - plays in the theatre when he has the time!


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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1051444 - 05/06/13 10:27 PM
@ Bob

You mentioned that the E845 is prone to popping? Would you say the D5 is better at handling plosives?

Also which is better at rejecting feedback and has the tightest pickup pattern?

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Bob Bickerton
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1051488 - 06/06/13 09:26 AM
Quote dickiefunk:

@ Bob

You mentioned that the E845 is prone to popping? Would you say the D5 is better at handling plosives?

Also which is better at rejecting feedback and has the tightest pickup pattern?




I had another opportunity to use D5s recently and I really dislike them, very grainy sounding compared to the 840/845s. I haven't done a direct comparison between D5 and 845, but id guess the 845 would be less prone to feedback as it sounds like a flatter response, but as noted can be subject to popping. I'm very happy with them with the extra screen inside.

Bob

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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1051497 - 06/06/13 11:17 AM
Thanks for the reply Bob. I'm surprised you dislike the D5 so much!? I'm actually quite impressed with the D5 (£54)and find it to be quite a bargain compared to the SM58 at £94!! I use it alongside a Sennheiser E935 and Shure Beta 58 and doesn't sound out of it's depth. Whilst I do slightly prefer the E935, the D5 has been excellent value for me.

I think my next mic purchase will be either an E838 or E840 as these are only £15 more than a D5 at £69 and I am curious to hear the E838/E840 based on my experience with the E935.

How does the E840 compare to the D5 regarding popping and feedback rejection?

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Bob Bickerton
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1051520 - 06/06/13 01:22 PM
Haven't noticed any particular popping issues with the 840 and haven't done A/B comparisons on feedback. But I'd regard the 840 to be a superior sounding mic. They're my go to budget dynamics.

Bob

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turbodave



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1051543 - 06/06/13 05:46 PM
Can I throw the Beyer TG48 into the mix? I quite like it, especially on female voices. Dave

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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #1051547 - 06/06/13 06:01 PM
Quote TheChorltonWheelie:



I don't use either for my own vocals, I use an SE H1, and if you can stretch to that I'd definitely recommend it. It's a condensor, but, it's very well shielded and can be used/handled live without any rumbles. I absolutely love mine, it's the mic that gives me the least amount of hassle and the one that most suits my voice. I have reasonable mic technique, but I don't have to be overly careful with the H1.






Ok my budget situation may be slightly better as I've just sold some gear and the H1 may be an option especially as it's possible to pick one up for £99 now! The one factor that has me questioning this mic is whether it'll pick up a lot more of the other instruments compared to the E940 and D5?

How does the pickup pattern of the H1 compare to the D5 and E940?

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Bob Bickerton
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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1051562 - 06/06/13 08:14 PM
If you have a serious issue with bleed or feedback you need an Audix OM7.

Bob

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turbodave



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1051567 - 06/06/13 08:47 PM
...or OM5 maybe? Dave

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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: Bob Bickerton]
      #1051572 - 06/06/13 09:23 PM
Quote Bob Bickerton:

If you have a serious issue with bleed or feedback you need an Audix OM7.

Bob




Don't really have any issue at the moment but am always trying to further improve my setup. The D5's have done a really good job so far but would like something that handles bleed, pops, proximity etc even better under £100 whilst being clearer again.

I am seriously considering your suggestion of the E840! I'm also keen on the Audix OM3, Heil PR 20 UT and EV PL80a.

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dickiefunk



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Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1051882 - 09/06/13 06:52 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. I noticed that Heil now sell the PR22 UT which is the same as the PR22 but without the extra coloured grills for £109 in the UK. I've listened to a few clips of these and they do sound extremely clear and detailed. There was one comparison of the PR22 and Beta 58 and the PR22 sounded way clearer! From my experience of the beta58, the high frequencies can sound a little brittle!? I'm slightly concerned that the PR22 may also sound brittle? Also, I've heard a few people say the PR22 is a little more prone to feedback than the usual supects live mics?

Can anyone comment on how the Heil PR22 compres to the AKG D5, Sennheiser E838/E840 and Audix OM6 regarding feedback rejection? Also how does it compare to these mics regarding popping, sibilance and output?

--------------------
www.richardpenrose.com


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dickiefunk



Joined: 17/06/05
Posts: 2400
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1055529 - 04/07/13 08:50 AM
I just bought a Sennheiser E838 for £37 secondhand (used once) and it should be here tomorrow. Looking forward to trying it out alongside my D5's, Sennheiser E935, Shure Beta 58 and SM58.

--------------------
www.richardpenrose.com


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Tim Gillett



Joined: 30/01/13
Posts: 654
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: dickiefunk]
      #1055541 - 04/07/13 09:41 AM
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but the effect of the foldback speaker, as well of course of the FOH speakers will probably have a greater impact on the sound than that of the mic. It's much harder to make a speaker with fidelity than a mic.

Does this matter? I think so. When a performer "tests" a vocal mic he/she is really testing the whole foldback chain, especially the foldback speaker which is the probably weakest link in the chain in fidelity terms.

I sometimes wonder if some of us more often swap mics and do shootouts between them because mics are small, light and it's dead easy to do such swaps. Swapping foldback speakers or mains would take more time, probably money and would be harder work. Perhaps that's why doing "shootouts" on the latter might be not such a priority?

Of course some things are solely the domain of the mic, such as handling noise and polar pattern and no amount of swapping foldback or FOH speakers will solve such issues.

Tim


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Bob Bickerton
active member


Joined: 20/12/02
Posts: 3224
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: AKG D5 vs Rode M1?? new [Re: Tim Gillett]
      #1055570 - 04/07/13 11:56 AM
Quote Tim Gillett:

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but the effect of the foldback speaker, as well of course of the FOH speakers will probably have a greater impact on the sound than that of the mic. It's much harder to make a speaker with fidelity than a mic.

Does this matter? I think so. When a performer "tests" a vocal mic he/she is really testing the whole foldback chain, especially the foldback speaker which is the probably weakest link in the chain in fidelity terms.

I sometimes wonder if some of us more often swap mics and do shootouts between them because mics are small, light and it's dead easy to do such swaps. Swapping foldback speakers or mains would take more time, probably money and would be harder work. Perhaps that's why doing "shootouts" on the latter might be not such a priority?

Of course some things are solely the domain of the mic, such as handling noise and polar pattern and no amount of swapping foldback or FOH speakers will solve such issues.

Tim




It's very simple really. We don't always have control over the systems we use, but we tend to have control over/easier access to microphones. Getting the source right at least solves one important part of the chain, but then that's a philosophy you refuse to accept.

Obviously having control (shoot outs) over all aspect of the signal chain (including room acoustics) is preferable, but often not practical.

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz


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