Nothing like modern music for a heated debate. Part two to come.

Something bugged me about part one though. Despite quickly mentioning Strauss and Debussy, they forgot Wagner. Bach, Beethoven and Brahms were mentioned as "Vienna's preferred Romantics" (!) - as if Schoenberg had come along almost after Brahms. But you cant get to Debussy and Strauss via Brahms. The accepted view is that the beginning of the end of the exhaustion of the Western system of tonality is with Tristan and Isolde - the 'Tristan chord' often being held up as the pivot. This is what led to the break with Brahms and the exploration into the further reaches. In fact Schoenbergs first works were late Romantic 'Wagnerian' pieces - and its obvious that by this point people felt hemmed in - so you either continued with late Romantic chromatic harmony, or bust out somehow.

There is a sort of punk story that people prefer, but its not quite correct. The fracture in the arts was as much an exhausting of systems as much as rebellion.

They forgot Mahler as well, who I'm sure must have been an influence on Ive's - whose assimilation of American folk and military music was similar.

Also - its no suprise that Stravinsky was the peoples choice. Cut up, distorted or assimilated in rythmic cataclysism, people still like a tune!

--------------------

So anyone got a collection of records by Birtwhitsle, Xenakis, Nono, Maxwell-Davies etc etc?

--------------------

Well actually, surely the essence of music is the facility to manipulate the internal process of consciousness from the outside, rather than any spurious teleological arguments about how it it achieved, as if it existed independently.

Quote Gone To Lunch:

---

Well actually, surely the essence of music is the facility to manipulate the internal process of consciousness from the outside, rather than any spurious teleological arguments about how it it achieved, as if it existed independently.

---

Coo! You ain't half clever mister! Wanna have sex with me?

Got something against Xenakis? His work has had a huge influence particularly on electronic music of both art and pop varieties and also on film music. Moreover he was the finest musical educator of his generation. I teach his theories of sound (epecially formation spaces) to school kids as they are one of the most accessible ways into thinking about composition.

So perhaps it's not your favourite kind of music. Personally I don't understand perople liking One Direction. But I do have the humility to accept that other people's tastes vary from mine.

--------------------
Daniel Davis
Edinburgh Recording Studio Windmill Sound

it was an interesting series though it could have been better - somehow forgetting the link Britten formed between the English pastoral school and the Manchester school was a bit odd, especially in this centenary year!
also, the amount of time spent on minimalism was excessive - i think the whole programme was aimed at the US market.
But the link to full performances on the Red Button was a great idea!

--------------------
My metal music! My other music!

Howard Goodall's episode on the transition into the 20th century filled in the gaps very well I thought, and gave due respect to Mahler and how the edifice of Wagner acted as a mountain which walking around was the only option. He was however quickly, almost sneeringly dismissive of serialism...

On that point I did not intend to be rude about asking if anybody was a fan, it was a genuine question - i really am intrigued if there are people who genuinely like this stuff - given that so many people dont. I love Berg, I have the 'hits' by Webern etc and the program inspired me to go back to it maybe, and fill in some gaps - no need to be so defensive Daniel, although I would like to think its possible to have a robust discussion of this kind of music without it having the rug pulled from it playing the 'relatavism' card. I liked hearing Boulez dismiss minimalism. Makes you think.

Anyhow recommend some good recording -, past or present.

--------------------