MikeN
new member
Joined: 05/03/03
Posts: 81
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Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
#1320 - 01/09/04 04:40 PM
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I'm recording acoustic/folkie/indie music based on acoustic guitar and vocals and building
up (sometimes not very much!)from there.. My sound on acoustic guitar is more than
acceptable, but on vocals, it can be on the thin side and can sound a bit brittle on the
upper-mids and higher frequencies. I'm after a bigger, fatter sound that just sounds more
"professional" and will sit better in the mix.
Currently, my audio recording
chain is an
Audio Technica 4033 going into a Joe Meek VC3
(the original model
with the so called "enhancer"). Given other expenses, I think I only have funds to upgrade
only one of these. Which piece of kit should I upgrade to get the biggest improvement?
I've heard differing opinions on this (unfortunately!!)
Budget is
around £300 - possibly could stretch a little more.
Thank you
MikeN
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BigAl
Just The Bass Player
Joined: 24/01/02
Posts: 2665
Loc: The King's Height
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#1326 - 01/09/04 04:45 PM
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Personally, I found my AT4033 sounded better with a better preamp (as did all mic's), so I
got a preamp. I spent 500 quid on a dual channel preamp (MP20), instead of a channel
strip (I have a Voicemaster) and I think I made the correct decision.
-------------------- Jack of all trades, master of some.
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Chucho
member
Joined: 23/01/03
Posts: 307
Loc: NYC
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#1340 - 01/09/04 04:52 PM
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Do you mean add to what you have now or sell one, add 300 quid and then buy? Re: your vocal problems, a dynamic mic could be the solution. The much loved sm58 (as
used on 'never mind the b+llocks' - I just found out) is cheap and will not be brittle.
And you'll have about 200 quid left over to buy a rare signed copy of 'never mind the
b+llocks' 
-------------------- I've got rhythm, I ain't got pitch
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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me
Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 5349
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#1341 - 01/09/04 04:53 PM
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I have the later MQ3 and have owned various VC3Qs... they're lovely little things but
quite coloured and with quite limited options.
I think you need to consider
whether you are after a Pre-Amp or a channel-strip first and foremost as you could spend
£300 on a preamp second hand alone...
BigAl is probably right that there is
no point pushing a good signal through a poor signal path... although as I have upgraded
the quality of my Mics, the quality of my recodings had come on tremendously...
I'm guessing what you're really after is a strip, in which case, I would look for
something more transparent to compliment your VC3... 
Cheers!
-------------------- Google less; read more!
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Frank Eleveld
Joined: 30/08/04
Posts: 3767
Loc: NL
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: RegressiveRock]
#1360 - 01/09/04 05:04 PM
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In the old forum, I responded to the same thread by replying that I would choose another
mic - to increase versatility.
IMO, it's easier to get a noticeable
improvement in sound by getting a good mic than with a new pre amp, unless you're moving
into the higher end territory.
More mics will give you more options. If I
were you, I'd get a good quality small diaphragm condenser mic - to record stringed
instruments and percussion for example, and possibly, another large diaphragm condenser
(the excellent value Red5 Audio RV-6 for example) for vocals.
Budget mics
won't always suit every vocalist, so it's perhaps wise to be able to choose among a
few.
A good dynamic mic (SM58 for vocals, SM57 for bass and guitar cabs,
Beyer M201 for a lot of things) will also come in useful.
Cheers,
Frank
--------------------
Imagination is more important than knowledge - A. Einstein
Edited by Frank Eleveld (01/09/04 05:05 PM)
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MikeN
new member
Joined: 05/03/03
Posts: 81
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#1447 - 01/09/04 06:07 PM
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Thanks everyone!
Opinions do seem to be divided.
I appear to be using
the term mic-pre a bit loosely, I meant a channel strip that includes a mic-pre.
Any of the SOS staff or (anyone else)shed some light on this one?
Cheers
MikeN
Edited by MikeN (01/09/04 06:38 PM)
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Ultimate Fish
posting's fun
Joined: 06/12/02
Posts: 1910
Loc: York, UK
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#2035 - 02/09/04 09:18 AM
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I've made a few recordings using a VC3 and I have to say that I don't like them. However
if you don't use any compression or EQ and just use it as a preamp then they're ok. As
others have said, you'll probably find that another mic will give you more flexibility. I
personally don't like the SM58, as suggested here, but the SM57 is nice and the Beyer M201
can also do a very good job.
--------------------
need to get rid of this stupid sig...
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RegressiveRock
Just half a pint of cherryade for me
Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 5349
Loc: Knebworth, Herts
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#2061 - 02/09/04 09:36 AM
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I think with a reasonable capacitor Cardoid like the 4033, you can cover most bases except
for very loud cabs and drums for which an SM57 will do an admirable job recording wise...
(The 4033 has a maximum sound input level of 145dB)... Frank's advice - as ever - is
excellent...
As such an SM57 can be bought for under £70 new and the rest of
the money spent on a transparent channel strip second hand... In this way you will have
the option of micing snares etc., whilst retaining you capacitor mic, your JoeMeek sound
and having a more transparent option for Vox and Instruments... 
The only other consideration might be to exchange the 4033 for something with an
interchangeable or switchable capsule to allow for omni, Fig8 and cardoid
configurations... I'd stick with a large diaphragm model... 
-------------------- Google less; read more!
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MikeN
new member
Joined: 05/03/03
Posts: 81
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: Frank Eleveld]
#3645 - 03/09/04 11:05 AM
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Any recommndations as to what channel strip I should go for to use with my 4033. If 2nd
hand is being suggested and around £250, what could I expect to get for that price??
MikeN
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Frank Eleveld
Joined: 30/08/04
Posts: 3767
Loc: NL
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#3800 - 03/09/04 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Any recommndations as to
what channel strip I should go for to use with my 4033. If 2nd hand is being suggested and
around £250, what could I expect to get for that price??
If you're lucky, a s/h Focusrite Green 1 (a
dual mic pre). Airy and open sounding, it's an excellent choice for generic applications.
Or a Focusrite Trakmaster, I haven't used it personally but these occasionally appear on
eBay for favourable prices and the Platinum range is good too.
Cheers,
Frank
--------------------
Imagination is more important than knowledge - A. Einstein
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MikeN
new member
Joined: 05/03/03
Posts: 81
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: Frank Eleveld]
#3938 - 03/09/04 01:10 PM
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I've heard loads of good things about focusrite greens, but wouldn't one of them be out of
my price range second-hand or am I being pessimistic??!!
I know the Trakmaster
is part of the budget Platinum range and I know there's a Voicemaster with more bells and
whistles on it. Would either of these be a big improvement over my Joe Meek VC3 or would
they just be a sideways move with a different sound?
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Nimhbus
Joined: 21/03/00
Posts: 398
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#4050 - 03/09/04 01:53 PM
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it depends, you might get lucky..certainly the going rate a year or so back was 350 for a
green 5 ( pre, eq, comp/gate ) , and its a fabulous unit. given the number of new cheap
pres on the market offering digital outs etc, maybe the price will have fallen a bit by
now. i certainly think its realistic to try...
i love my green 5!
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James Lehmann
Joined: 17/05/05
Posts: 2010
Loc: Europe
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: MikeN]
#4193 - 03/09/04 03:36 PM
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Quote:
I'm after a bigger, fatter
sound that just sounds more "professional" and will sit better in the mix...Budget is
around £300
Hmm.. tough one to
achieve for £300 I think. I did quite a bit of female vocal recording with the same
chain you have with some success but it's hard to choose which component upgrade would
give the biggest audible improvement.
I think I might go for the mic upgrade
myself - maybe you could get a deal on something or buy 2nd hand. The Shure KSM32 comes
to mind as being a nice warm-sounding and musical mic I tried before purchasing my
Microtech Gefell M930 (which I wouldn't describe as warm). Some people like the AKG Solid
Tube but I found it too coloured for my taste. There are others who rave about the Rode
valve mic, K2 is it? - worth a demo I would say.
--------------------
I used to be a rocker, but now I've gone off it and just sit in one. (JL)
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CdnBcn
Joined: 10/03/04
Posts: 831
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Only can afford mic OR Mic-pre as upgrade - which way to go?
[Re: James Lehmann]
#5708 - 05/09/04 12:04 PM
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I picked up a Mindprint En-Voice MK II earlier in the week and I have been completely
impressed by what it has done for my vocal tracks. It's a shame that you have to choose
between a mic and a pre because you really do need both to get what you're looking for. The thing about the Mindprint that has really impressed me is how invisible the
compressor is. I know it's working but no one listening to the track would.
-------------------- www.gpsystems.ca
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