"Well, nobody has ever changed the one that's there,"

The Beatles. They changed everything that came before them. And, it's time for another change. Or maybe a little "tweak"? I know you think I'm beating a dead horse Rob. But this is 2005 and it's been 40+ years since a musical phenomenon has occured. Things aren't running that smoothly in the industry where we concious, moral music pioneers shouldn't promote some possitive change and advance to a new concept in Pop Culture. I'm not brain dead yet and forums like these encourage me to want to make a little contribution to the cause and, folks like yourself have been gracious enough to allow me to say and think as I believe. If it appears that I'm breaking with tradition, so-be-it. But I still think that there's many more than myself that feel the way I do about the "business".

A multi-genre artist still owns his/her oun identifiable musical signature. In this day of mass marketing and broad media capability available to us, it's enevitable that an artist pennetrates the boundries of the mega status quo. the industry is not keeping with the artist's influences of all the musics made available from forein cultures.

C'mon! losen up huh? You just have to ask for something MORE! Challenge yourself. Take risks.

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

im sure rml wont mind us trashing his thread with talk of peace. come to think of it, he was the first person to comment on my stuff here. 'a hundred wasps in a tin' was his impresiion as i remember

Quote The Openwater:

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im sure rml wont mind us trashing his thread with talk of peace. come to think of it, he was the first person to comment on my stuff here. 'a hundred wasps in a tin' was his impresiion as i remember

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And it did, my very first impression, though a hundred wasps was a moment, just exaggeration, i merely thought it was a bit fizzy and not the best production i heard and through pc cruddy speakers.
And you admitted yourself that you put an inferior mix on due to your erm? Concerns.

My sound files is a place where people are looking for feedback, mostly people take the good and the bad and the indifferent in their stride, as i'm pretty sure you do, are doing.

The songs, as far as i remember, i thought they were good.
I'll listen to them again, seeing as we are talking about that peace...... I have no problem "trashing the thread with talk of peace", even better though if the "peace" in question was of the absence of conflict kind.

Is the thread trashed? If there is no more milage in the discussion then fine. As in the dictionary definition of fine, and not the arsey, egomaniac way.

The weathers hot, the world is mad, this place is cool, and long may it be. Peace and love to all.

I'm interested in the MORE bit. You see, I can get everything I want if I come up with the goods and pay attention to the right things. Tell me about the MORE bit you'd get from breaking into the mainstream. Perhaps I just don't understand what that is.

The Beatles are my specialist subject. The difference is that it wasn't one person setting out to make a specific change... it was a wide range of people coming together in a particular time and creating something nobody even thought of.

One big difference between the 50s/60s and today is that the popular enjoyment of recorded and live music is a shadow now of what it was then. Today we have loads more music in everything... your fries play a little tune as you eat them... but the whole of (Western) society lives a life that has less room for The Beatles.

If there is a change I think it will come from the economic shift to India and China. But only if they muscle into the white Western top table before our dreadful pop monster squeezes the life out of their music industries.

Anyway. Tell me about MORE. What's in it for me?

(One word from you RML and we'll return to the topic just like we'd never been away. I promise.)

rml, i never took offence, and im pretty grounded too. in fact the 'hundred wasps in a tin' has become a bit of an in-joke around here. i'll never forget that and it still gives me the giggles when i think about it. never ever is everyone going to like your stuff. its just the way it goes. this is a great thread beautifully opened. its an issue right at the heart of what musicians and the more discerning listener dislike about the business of music. i think thats why we used to get the two sided album. the slow side/fast side. electric side/acoustic side. love side/hate side. it let the listener have their half hour without getting too confused, and the artist express. i think the presentation format has a lot to do with the state of the 'art'. the cd is just too skipable, too disposable, only got one side!. i would promote vinyl if i were a big act, big executive. aside the fact that no bugger can play it anymore. it was a better way to present imho, sounded better too. sadly all my vinyl [shed loads] was stolen some years back, much of it impossible to replace. you can find me in help the aged sitting on the floor in front of the vinyl bucket trying to find em. take care man and keep posting.

"Multi genre artists?"

My take (having not the time to read 300+ posts) is...Some people like what they know and know what they like and don't wish to be challenged. Others get bored easily and relish the challenge of the new, difficult & varied.

it's like a bar where there are numerous bottled beers and real ales on offer, or bog standard lager. Some will stick to the lager, others will relish the prospect of an untried new taste.

Yep, you probably guessed i just got back from a holiday in Prague.

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"Is the thread trashed?"

RML! RML! I'm sooo sorry man. What a great thread you started here. Opened up a universe of, of,..of....wonderful, wonderful,..ah,

Well anyway, it was my fault. hope there was no damage done. I'll bet a sixpack you had no freak'n idea the controversy and treasures you spawned when you started this thread. Thought we lost you. Been on holliday?

I unwitingly went and clicked on OW's web site and responded to his music on your thread W/out posting in the proper area. I cought holly hell for it though. I've learned my lesson and am happy to be posting THIS!
Enough wind.

Sincerely,

Proud, Multi-Gendre Instrumentalist,

BMWerx

Rob. Rob, Rob? Were you 14 years old when the Beatles broke in to the States? About 1963. The first song I heard was "I wanna hold your hand" They literally erassed all the pop music on all the radio stations around them at the time. And then?...... The histeria. Nothing was the same since.

"Anyway. Tell me about MORE. What's in it for me?"

I can tell you more Rob but not about more. What's in it for you is exactly what you put into "it". Depending on what definition of "it" you use.

If there is a change I think it will come from the economic shift to India and China. But only if they muscle into the white Western top table before our dreadful pop monster squeezes the life out of their music industries.

Very profound stuff going down here Rob. (above) You do in fact understand. You're making me more nervous than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Have you no sense of urgency?

"it was a wide range of people coming together in a particular time and creating something nobody even thought of."

Ever been driving down the road and there's 8 or 10 trafic lights and usually have to stop for every one except maybe one or two? The Beatles had every light turn green for them. One after the other.

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

no, no, im taking all the blame, entirely my fault. should have just read the lovely comments and smiled. i will have the wife give my ears a good boxing when she gets home from work. im thrashing myself with a big load of twigs as we speak.

Looks like the wing of an airplane. Side view. A blue one.

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

or a surfboard perhaps

AAAh! OW! yep. Let your bubble bees fly [away]=(angry white arse yankee)

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

check your PM's bmw.

My age is kicking around on this forum. Quite a few people know. Hehe.

Quote BMWerks:

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Ever been driving down the road and there's 8 or 10 trafic lights and usually have to stop for every one except maybe one or two? The Beatles had every light turn green for them. One after the other.

---

Like most overnight successes this was eventually true. Epstein was their second manager... the Anthology DVDs are priceless but they don't cover all the personnel before the final line-up started to form. The Beatles made four separate recordings before they were signed... in the age before cassette this was very unusual.

By the time they were signed Beatlemania was starting... check their gig rate in 1962... EMI scraped in under the wire. Sure Eppy was chewing his nails... but with perspective you can see they had it almost in the bag. The George Martin touch (booting Best and letting them write) was the final touch of genius. Signing their publishing to Dick James was the icing on the cake... his TV contacts were crucial.

Looking around swinging London you find the essential extras... fashion, photography, films, art... The Beatles hoovered up 1950s American music and sprayed it back through their Fabness Intensifier Machine into the hippest place on earth. But enough waffle...

The MORE I was talking about is the one you keep telling me to go for. What is it? I really don't know... It's the same MORE you want for changing the biz.

"The MORE I was talking about is the one you keep telling me to go for. What is it? I really don't know... It's the same MORE you want for changing the biz."

Correct on all accounts Rob.

Hey, You could write.

Just a little tweak maybe? OK! OK! I wanna be filthy rich! OK? I don't just want to "make a living at it" I FREAKIN WANT MOOOORE! Pick you up in my Lear jet tomorrow morning. Be ready! And bring the beer.

"But enough waffle..."

Not at all. More waffles please?

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

Quote The Openwater:

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check your PM's bmw.

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Cheque your PM's OW.

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

Ok, ok, very funny haha....



I dont want more, enough would be more than sufficient.

"The Beatles had every light turn green for them. One after the other."

A great way to think/theorise of the beatles success, and they were talented as well, bonus. Surely that talent played a part on those lights changing for them? A bit like that system for the fire service, where the lights all change in anticipation of the appliance/firetruck coming, kind of.

And on topic....

A fine line between multi genre and diversity? S'ok doesn't need an answer.

I only sound stupid.

But i'm often silly.

Feel the love. But not in a Darius (dah rye us) type fashion.

Quote The real musiclover:

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Surely that talent played a part on those lights changing for them?

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I look at it this way. They were the original buzz-band with a hot manager. ALL they did was their job (music) and ALL they wanted was big success. They didn't mess with the business like all us indies do today. They just got better at being The Beatles until they had a big local following and got noticed by people with resources. If you want a recent parallel: The Darkness (although even they were more biz savvy than The Beatles were).

BMW More about MORE: I'm not sure how your indies work in the USA but I think they are smaller than here in Europe. In Europe a good chunk of the big sellers are indie. Also, because of the indie habit of frugality (both artists and labels) I have yet to find an indie artist in the classic "chewed up and spat out" state you get in the mainstream. Those artists on iMusic I mentioned before (iMusic are ex-major salvage specialists) are all much happier than they were with the majors, and most likely better off. Mick Hucknall is now (ex-major) earning more than he earned when he was signed. But the defining point about those people is that they are doing their thing.

I always say, if you want the Lear Jet, don't get bogged down in ethics (where is Robert Fripp's diamond encrusted limo?). If you just want to be big and rich there is only one path and it's dirty. Most people (me included) aren't cut out for that...

Just to throw a different angle on things again ...

These days I write music for TV and Film, a typically cut throat area where in order to survive one has to comply to certain rules. Invariably I am working to a brief given to me by people who don't really understand what they want, to an impossibly tight deadline, and in competition with 3 or 4 other musicians for the same job. This is not the business in which to be precious since that is not the way you win the pitch.

Often I come up with a piece of music that I think is fab, the Ad Agency thinks is fab, the Director thinks is fab, but then the client wants to change it. Most clients know nothing about music at all, being salesman and marketing men mostly. At first I found this very hard to accept, coming from the touring/session drummer and songwriter background, But when the cheques started rolling in I sort of warmed to the idea!

Being multi-genre certainly helps in this arena and there is a lot of money to be made, but you do have to consistently sell your soul and compromise. I guess my point is that every business is driven by market forces, supply and demand, and if you can supply what people demand then you will make a living.

The decision is ultimately yours.

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Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
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"Most people (me included) aren't cut out for that... "

Difference between you and me Rob. I'm not like "most" people. All else in your post here is right on the money though as far as I can see. Very "sane"!

More! more! More!!!

Mr. Commander sir, "Being multi-genre certainly helps in this arena and there is a lot of money to be made, but you do have to consistently sell your soul and compromise."

I'm always "selling my soul". However, I have a hang-up about compromising my artistic integrity.

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

"I dont want more, enough would be more than sufficient."

What if you didn't have enough and you wanted more to be outfishin?

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

Good thread everyone. Unfortunately I am not a veteran of the music biz. I am a student though, I go to a school that is trying to teach me about it. Not that I think much of what they tell me is true, theory is great, but life is never that simple. I dislike the major label's method of stifling creativity, many of the best artists I have been introduced to are on indie labels, or not signed at all. That said, not all major-label artists are making crap, I can name some, but that is all subjective so I won't start arguments.

I would like to see this discussion keep going, it teaches me more than my classes ever could, haha.

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You rarely learn when you are in class; meet someone on the street however, and prepare to be blown away.

Hey tboner, welcome to the forum.

"I dislike the major label's method of stifling creativity,"

Welcome TB23, I'm sure you'll find this forum quite revealing.

Hey Rob, would you address this young person's concern?

"but that is all subjective so I won't start arguments."

It's OK to start arguments. Many of us learn this way. I know, I do.

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

Quote tboner23:

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life is never that simple

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Welcome on board.

Life is never that simple. True.

It is true the often crude basics of the music biz are based around some key vested interests of today and yesterday. I wouldn't single out the majors, but they're in there.

But I do disagree about that "stifling" as you'll see in a lot of my posts around here... I don't find myself stifled. Sure, I'm not going to be played on heavy rotation to 10 year old girls or racked in Tescos, and I'm not going to be signed by a major.

I don't find that stifling, although I accept some do.

Quote Commander:

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Often I come up with a piece of music that I think is fab, the Ad Agency thinks is fab, the Director thinks is fab, but then the client wants to change it. Most clients know nothing about music at all, being salesman and marketing men mostly.

---

ive only ever done a few bits and pieces of 'commercial' work. but did a piece for a helicopter co. not my usual sort of thing, this was all sequenced, an electronicy, orchestralish sort of piece. it grew from the original five mins spec'd to eight mins when the graphics were revised (was a trade fair) and that was a pain in itself. but i used a helicopter sample which drifted in and out here and there. anyway, all was good. so at the sign off was a collection of execs from the co, ceo and all. so we all sit round in the board room. the presentation was played and the suits all sat around nodding and generally looking pleased. i was thinking, 'this is looking good, soaking a bit of glory as you do'. so the marketing honcho (ex-pilot) looks at me and says 'that was fantastic, where did you get the helicopter sound'. so i said 'oh its a sample, i just picked it off an efx cd'. 'well' he said, 'thats a Bell212'. wow i thought, this guy is shithot. so i said 'thats incredible, how can you tell'. 'oh' he said, 'absolutely unmistakable, you can tell by the chop of the blades and the engine sound'. 'defo a 212'. so the rest of the suits start nodding (im sure most didn't bloody know and were just going along with him) and agreeing with mutters 'oh yes a 212, no doubt' and so on. so im thinking, well, they will finish this bit of interllectual group sex in a minute and i can get to the pub with me cheque. so the ex-pilot guy says. 'we dont fly 212s we fly 412s'. [glass shatters in head] so i said 'oh well, are you happy with everything then' trying to change the subject. so he says 'well we really should make this correct because theres a lot of very experienced people at the show [plane spotters] and we don't want to look stupid'. so im thinking, oh for fks sake, looking round the room for support as i try and smile and play it down. and they all start the nodding muttering thing again. i mean theres about thirty seconds tops in an eight minute piece. its gonna be played in a bloody great big noisy trade fair out of the speakers built into the side of a big hired plasma, this is fkn rediculous. im gonna have to go home, find this poxy sample somehow, put it in and redo all the finalising. and come back into this bloody room and go through this again, with every chance that next time they will find something else they don't like. [this is all going on a bit, sorry ive been guinness testing tonight]. suffice to say, they asked me to redo it. they actually provided the sound from one of their vibration test thingies. it was only was a few hours extra work in reality. but i kid you not. so commander you must have the patience of a saint.

Here, here. Here, here. Here, here.

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

Quote The Openwater:

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commander you must have the patience of a saint.

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I think I'm just good at bluffing!

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Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
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Quote Commander:

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Just to throw a different angle on things again ...

These days I write music for TV and Film, a typically cut throat area where in order to survive one has to comply to certain rules. Invariably I am working to a brief given to me by people who don't really understand what they want, to an impossibly tight deadline, and in competition with 3 or 4 other musicians for the same job. This is not the business in which to be precious since that is not the way you win the pitch.

Often I come up with a piece of music that I think is fab, the Ad Agency thinks is fab, the Director thinks is fab, but then the client wants to change it. Most clients know nothing about music at all, being salesman and marketing men mostly. At first I found this very hard to accept, coming from the touring/session drummer and songwriter background, But when the cheques started rolling in I sort of warmed to the idea!

Being multi-genre certainly helps in this arena and there is a lot of money to be made, but you do have to consistently sell your soul and compromise. I guess my point is that every business is driven by market forces, supply and demand, and if you can supply what people demand then you will make a living.

The decision is ultimately yours.

---

Commander.

I have the utmost respect for your success in this field, especially considering what you have said here. I'd love to give it a go, before the work goes full time and the music goes part time.

I would love to be making a modest living from working to musical briefs, i wouldn't have to for my own stuff.

I can compromise, a career in this area of music would be preferable to my fallback career.

A lot of money to be made? I dont need a lot.

But what are the requirements beyond being musically versatile?

I dipped my toes into researching the library music scene a while back (is "library" the correct "umbrella" term, for what you do...Tv/ads/incidental/film/etc?) and it seems like you have to do an awful lot more than just mix it down and deliver. Maybe i'll elaborate at a later date?

Chocks away, tally ho old chap.

Quote The real musiclover:

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I can compromise, a career in this area of music would be preferable to my fallback career.

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To compromise whilst retaining your integrity is quite a hard thing to do actually, especially when you have spent 4 days working to a 30sec picture and know both the film and your music inside out. The client watches it once and starts pulling it about, or worse still just says "next!" Hard not to become attached but vital that you don't. On the other hand if it is for shedloads of cash you put your grandma on eBay and get on with it!

Quote The real musiclover:

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A lot of money to be made? I dont need a lot.

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There is a lot to be made, although nowhere near as much as there was when I started since everyone has cottoned on and wants to do it now. Clients have become far more choosy, Ad Agencies are scared of losing the clients so bend over backwards to accomodate them, fewer jobs with more people clamouring for them = less money.

Quote The real musiclover:

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But what are the requirements beyond being musically versatile?

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You need to be able to translate what the creatives tell you into music, compose to brief, be able to pastiche without getting sued, get your point across in 30secs without detracting from the message in the ad, produce, engineer and mix to broadcast standards, be able to source the best musicians for any stuff you can't do yourself, present and sell your mix to the agency who then have to sell it to the client, and bring it all in on the sort of deadline that means you don't get to sleep very often. Oh, and you need to be the best you can be at all times since you will always be up against many other composers after the same job, sometimes several (although they don't often tell you that!)

Quote The real musiclover:

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is "library" the correct "umbrella" term, for what you do...Tv/ads/incidental/film/etc?

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No. Library Music is something I do when I am not doing ads or stuff for the BBC. Usually I adapt any music that doesn't win pitches for commercials and turn it into Library Music so nothing gets wasted. A total recall desk really helps here too since it cuts down on mix time significantly.

Quote The real musiclover:

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... it seems like you have to do an awful lot more than just mix it down and deliver.

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For Library? Absolutely! As a rough guide you need to supply 5, 10, 20, 30, 60 and 3min versions, all with and without topline (melody). So you are talking 12 mixes of the same track, all specific to the needs of the brief.

Quote The real musiclover:

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Chocks away, tally ho old chap.

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Not half!

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Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
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Good post Commander. Lots of juicy info. I don't want your job!

Bet you don't remember when film studio directors and producers had trouble finding the appropriate music for their films (they probably still might) and used to rip classical music from cylinder type ceramic recordings. I especially loved it when Walt Disney used Bix Biderbeck recordings for his Mickey Mouse cartoons. The perfect music to film combination.

The history of this industry is really very fasinating. Today, far too competitive for my blood. I'm hoping that one day they'll come knocking and say; BMWerx? "Why don't you let us use your music in our big, blockbuster film? Just send us the CDs, [we'll pay the postage!] and wait for the cheques to roll in."

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

Oh well, back to designing the nano brain-surgery robots then. Here comes another long post nobody will bother to read. Sorry, i must like sound of my own keyboard!

Speaking purely from a speculative point of view. I don't know the commanders game. The dabblings ive had just frustrated me. Think you have to be the type. Highly professional and very dedicated and organised.

But thinking ahead, as we all have to in these days of miracle and wonder. I suppose the other thing to bear in mind is that in some years. probably not that many either. Software will have advanced to the point where it can comfortably compose and deliver a track to a set of specifications. Every time we buy music software we fund more development in this area. And sure as night follows day its happening as we speak.

This happened in the web and graphic design industries. Something i know quite a bit about commercially. What id been doing since around 93 shortly after music spat me out chewed and shaking. You know you would go into a design meeting and get to the ching line. And [ive had this] the suit says. Well my ten year old does websites. He's got a thing that just knocks them out with a wizard. Why are you quoting me fifteen grand. He doesn't understand that he is getting a totally different bespoke animal. And that there isn't a wizard that does that. But of course now there are packages that can produce quite complex applications and db backended sites, and document them after a fashion. Or the copy of Access that came on his laptop has a 'give me a business app' wizard. So he thinks, is this bohemian techie bsing me? There goes another business.

You may say it will never replace the human composition and performance. We wont be able to emulate a guy playing a Tele through a fender twin. Well, we said that about a lot of things. And the software has moved in. Sure still needs some intervention right now, but less and less. Theres a great post somewhere on here where someone asks about a country sound suggestion. He got some nice replies, Strats, Teles, Twins, Johnsons etc. Then someone suggested an amp emulation plug-in. Raved about it. This is how young people think.

As the commander points out the fees have dropped. The competition is stiffer. And the budget allocation for music is reduced. Its importance in the project has reduced in the eyes of the suits. Because now everyone knows someone who produces music. It not white mans majic anymore. Their kids, their kids friend does it. And they have heard it. And it aint half bad! Sounds pretty damned good a softsynth compostition out of cubase light of some other such app bundled with a fifty quid soundcard. Theres a million of em, just go to the vanity sites. In fact its getting to the point where the suit is expecting his music for free! You better be grateful for the exposure. The quality drops for sure, but are you really not going to buy the toothpaste cos its not a real triangle dinging the ring of confidence. The generation coming through, the new consumers, they dont care about it. They have been conditioned into the new quality levels.

Saw a chart band on tv the other month participating in a listening test at a studio. Their 'own' track was played back on top equipment in vinyl, cd, and mp3 and they were asked to blind pick the best quality in perfect listening conditions. They picked the mp3!.

Theres the 'is this a hit tune' online database, as used quietly by many an RC suit. How long before its the 'give me a hit' online database?

Better stop now. You probably got my jist. The nice man in the studio down the road off the M23 [come on pop pickers] refers to digital gear as 'those infernal machines' and I know why. Because he wanted his son to take the studios over but theres shrinking business and its not going to happen.

I so want to be wrong about this. I really want to be shot down in flames and convinced its not true. For the sake of all the real artists trying to make a crust out of music. Im praying for the backlash. Willing people to reject bland beep beep crap masquerading as music. But i think it might be wishful thinking.

Like I say to the kids. If you want a good long carreer then find a job a computer can't do!

And then there was Vocaloid. Will I dream Dave. Daisy Daisy.......

yea its a bit like star wars the cgi is really impressive and you marvel its technique but it looks [ ****** ].....give me the old school modelling any day it looks so real!! thats cause it it is.
probably something to do with the 50hz hum?
thing is the kids are so old now that they couldnt give two shites about star wars anyway.
mmm perhaps the new 'good' is in the technique - more about how it is done not what it is...
is this what happens when you grow up in postmodernity? the substance IS style? who gives a shite whats in the tin as long as it says what it does - and thus the pastiche convinces you that it is the real thing....so how many pastiches are written before the pastiche becomes the new genre?
probably when creating new genres BECOMES a pastiche...shite ive been here before.
we need a total break down man, a real backdown to the fundamental essence of music.
i think brainwave synchronisation will be the new jazz you know the binaural beats thing....

Openwater. A long post i was only too pleased to read.


Commander. Regarding the correct term for your area of work, if it's not library, then what? If i may?
Library, seemingly, is not for me as it's the one that sounds closest to what i was researching, with topline, without etc etc...

I'd like to get into music for ads, big music for big ads, unless the brief is small, i'm more of a medium to large myself.

But a publisher would be the place for that, no?
Like saying "Hello ad agencies, my clients music, on your ad. Aww go on". Assuming the publisher signs you.

Super simplistic i know.

I just want a career in music, i dont need riches, even a little supplemental income would suffice.

I've probably got some more for you Commander, but i should stop here for now. A lot of good cud chewing.

And it's quite nice that for the most part we all are looking at similar views, just from slightly different angles.

Well thats how it looks to me.

Quote Nikerror:

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yea its a bit like star wars the cgi is really impressive and you marvel its technique but it looks [ ****** ].....give me the old school modelling any day it looks so real!! thats cause it it is.

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Hello.

I agree with you, not that it's real, (i know what you meant) but better. analogue vs digital (Analogous) Mwahahahahahahaha.

Or is there an old film set in the shape of a death star orbiting the planet?

Welcome to that place which is here.

Quote The real musiclover:

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Commander. Regarding the correct term for your area of work, if it's not library, then what?

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Dunno. I just call it music for TV.

Quote The real musiclover:

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'd like to get into music for ads, big music for big ads, unless the brief is small, i'm more of a medium to large myself.

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That's the area that everyone wants to work in. Fewer jobs but with more money. International campaigns preferably for maximum royalties. This is where the most competition is and where the most stress lies!

Quote The real musiclover:

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ut a publisher would be the place for that, no? Like saying "Hello ad agencies, my clients music, on your ad. Aww go on". Assuming the publisher signs you.

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No, not through a publisher, since a publishing deal means you have already signed music to them. Music on TV is normally specifically written to brief and it would be impossible to have "off the peg" music with a publisher in the right vein, the right length, hitting the sync points in the film and so on (unless you are psychic). That's where Library Music comes in. The best way to break into it Music for TV is either to get yourself an Agent (tricky, since most will want to hear your other TV stuff, but since you need an Agent to get you the TV work in the first place you won't have any yet), or to know someone in an Ad Agency who is prepared to give you a break. This doesn't happen often either since the creatives are not too keen to put their jobs on the line for the sake of an unknown quantity (ie, you!)

Quote The real musiclover:

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just want a career in music, i dont need riches, even a little supplemental income would suffice.

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Then Library Music is the way to go. You can work as and when you like and pick up the cheques from your doormat when your stuff gets used. No deadlines and no clients to deal with. Sometimes your Library music will be used on a TV ad campaign (which is great!) although bear in mind that Library Companies take 50% of all royalties so you won't make as much this way. It's bloody hard work but then if it were easy everyone would be doing it, and you might never make any money, but once you know what gets used and what your strengths are (I keep banging on about it, but know your strengths and play to them!) you will make decent dosh. It's a great pension plan too since the royalties are like a snowball.

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Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
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Edited by Commander (16/07/05 08:59 AM)

Rob C.

I apologize, stifling was not the correct word I meant to use. I think major labels discouraging, or suppressing creativity is a bit closer to what I was meaning.

Commander

If I may ask, what exactly is Library Music?

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You rarely learn when you are in class; meet someone on the street however, and prepare to be blown away.

Don't apologise... it's only my opinion.

Library music is music compiled by a middleman into a catalogue of varied soundtrack ready, cleared, recordings. (Catalogue music is a similar thing.) The library is normally issued on CDs. People who make films, ads, etc. go to the middleman and get the catalogue and choose the stuff for their project.

Time Bandits and other early Gilliam films used library music, and you'll often recognise it in different applications... something you don't normally get with commissioned music.

The downside for writers is that you have to do all the prep as The Commander mentioned, and when you're starting out you get poor rates too. Once your music is in the library it will go out at the same terms for the length of your deal (many libraries like to buy you out permanently).

"In fact its getting to the point where the suit is expecting his music for free!"



Hate to take this out of your flowing context OW, (excellent post BTW,) but it's what I've been trying to say ever since I started posting here with SOS. Why don't YOU ever get any flack from Rob?

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Just Press Play www.soundcloud.com/bravenote

Quote tboner23:

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If I may ask, what exactly is Library Music?

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What Rob C. said. It's basically a music rental service that anyone needing music for a project can use. There are set rates and licence fees for music usage of which the Music Library gets 50% and you get 50%. Albums are released in specific genres (Sport, Politics, News etc) and the more you write and the better your stuff is the more it will get used, and the more libraries you are signed to the more you earn. You don't need to be exclusive, so for the true multi-genre artist you could be the orchestral guy on one library and the guitar guy on another, and so on.

Very nice pension scheme

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Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
Cue irritating bongo music ...

i never said it before. anyway, maybe he doesn't read my late night posts. maybe i should read them before i push the send button. its all bs you know. says it in my profile.