I am about to get to the bottom of the PRS and MCPS

Is there a question you want answered?
(I’ll be amalgamating at my leisure)

It’s my aim to un-grey the confusion that is royalties and rights, and paint the entire situation in black and white

So, is there a question you want answered?

Smart arse comments need not apply

This is not a drill

I’m talking licensing, sample clearance, recording or performing covers, publishing rights and/or percentages, cheques through the door et al

Oh yes, I’m in Panto this year!

Oh yes I am!!!

and I once played in the Duke Ellington Orchestra...

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Big George

Look behind you!

OK. I don't know if this question qualifies, but I have yet to get an email answered by PRS... and these are general loose ends in my brain.

Opting out.

When you sign up with MCPS you can opt some or all of your material out at different times. For example, if you're pressing up 5,000 psychedelic vinyl EPs for your own use, you can get a no claims opt out... MCPS don't collect, everyone's happy.

When you sign up with PRS it seems that you sign up as THE WRITER and anything credited to you must always go through PRS. Situations where you might opt out (playing a one-man open air festival?) are still handled by PRS. I think U2 have a deal where they get their PRS for Wembley on the day, but it still goes through PRS.

This difference, if I've summarised it right, causes some friction on the web (and maybe elsewhere). The JOL (which I've read up as extensively as a non-member can) is mandatory for everyone putting PRS members' material up. The writer themselves can't opt out for their own site... every bleep and fart you record and upload is protected by PRS who want £20,000 a year for it. (Being joint there's little point opting out of MCPS, although as I understand it you could do that.)

Now, PRS say they won't make YOU get a license, and judging by the licenses they've got (about 100) it does appear as though they're signing up big commercial sites like iTunes etc.

I suppose my questions are these:

- is this right or have I made a dreadful humiliating gaffe?
- is it a problem or is the the way they've always worked (i.e. rough and ready)?
- should new artist/writers with a big web thang eschew the mighty PRS?

I have a feeling that this might be the tip of the ice cube... I only came across it because it's in my neck of the woods. I'm sure artist/writers have other cases of turbulence.

OK. Here's another one.

Shareouts.

We often see quotes like "daytime play on Radio One is worth [insert price of good evening out]".

AFAIK the PRS license for, say Radio One, is based on the audience size and other estimates of the performance value (license fee income? annual budget? but obviously not advertising). Radio One is one of the stations that makes complete usage returns so the performances are known precisely (unlike Bob's Botulism Bar, Pimlico Broadway).

As I understand it, shareouts (of PRS licenses fees) are based on statistical calculations extrapolated from usage returns and demographic data. Or put another way... there isn't a "fee-per-play" as such.

Obviously, for specific airplay you could work out how much the Beeb were charged and how much the publisher/writer got for the play. And I'm assuming that's where these kind of quotes come from.

Or, are there cases (like U2's special brown envelope at Wembley) where writers do know exactly what they're going to get for a particular radio or TV broadcast of a record?

(And to help you warm up for panto... that was another big one, eh?)

* bump *

in terms of PRS, I know that everything that Radio 1 plays gets 'logged', however what is the samples size for smaller radio stations (i.e. howmany days in a month/months are logged).

* bumpity bump *

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www.bemuso.com

Sings "When i'm calling youuuuuuuuuuuu ooooooh eeeh oooh, oooh eeeeh ooh".

Will he answer to?

I was thinking more of keeping it visible for further questions...

Perhaps it could be stickyfied? (Hint to mods?)

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www.bemuso.com

Quote Rob C.:

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I was thinking ....

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that's always good to know Rob C

BUT the point of this thread is to find out if there is anything ... SEE ORIGINAL POST



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Big George

Stickification would help I think... James, Matt, Ian????

If it helps, I'm one of the few writer members on the media committee board of the PRS/MCPS alliance - I'd happily bring some of those points up at the next meeting - ( this is a sub-group consisting of publishers and media writers with the heads of each of the PRS departments - we meet to discuss issues arising in the media world of music )

Feel free to email me anytime

Lester Barnes

(Beer )

Quote Big George:

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Quote Rob C.:

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I was thinking ....

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that's always good to know Rob C

BUT the point of this thread is to find out if there is anything ... SEE ORIGINAL POST

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Am I on acid or something. You said you wanted questions to answer at your leisure. For a future article.

RobC asked loads of questions.

What is it you want again???

So back to the questions...

What is the difference, for a UK writer with foreign royalties, between these options:

1. joining PRS and MCPS and getting foreign perf/mech collected through their reciprocal agreements?
2. joining PRS and MCPS for the UK and joining bodies abroad for each territory or some territories?
3. getting a publisher to do 1. and/or 2. for you as an administration deal?

And in the case of 3. what are the differences between collecting through the foreign societies and sub-publishing in other territories.

I'm thinking about the principles rather than the amount of work (obviously world-wide admin is a good thing from that point of view).

Thanks.

(I still can't understand why this thread didn't get stickified by the mods.)

*bump*

You know RobC, I reckon this forthcoming article is probably going to be a bit more........ remedial.

These articles do tend to run on geological timescales... it's the way it is. If I had anything urgent or left over I'd take up Beer's kind offer... in the mean time the occasional bump won't hurt.

Im looking forward to it. I have long sight so no problem. Maybe we could get a legal secretary to edit your posts and cut out the middle man with the silly haircut.

Sorry but ive been watching Star Trek... The Final Frontier

Come on Big George... I bet I'm more sarcastic than you. You know you wanna have a good old scratch meow! Im waiting, and i aint masturbatin! Tell me how to play bloody tambourine when you're supposed to be writing about art!

Quote ow:

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...masturbatin! ... bloody tambourine ... writing about art!

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I'm going to see them this Tuesday (13/9/5) for an interview followed by email ping pong about all the stuff I forget while I'm there.

As for Tambourine playing:
playing it properly, as opposed to sequencing it up on the computer is not as easy as it might seem. So "ow" if you're in need, my rates are scandalously high, but I have a red one, a white one, a blue one, a yellow one, a green one and a little one with a picture of the Fimbles on.

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Big George

Ive got a Chad Valley original fifties tin tambourine. Its blue with a black star behind a ballerina and harlequine with green dingers.

Ive got an Egyptian one, wooden with proper hide. Hand done dingers. That is very mellow. And it collects money like a hat. See its a hat you can play the bloke said.

Then one of those half mooner eighties ones. Hard plastic black with hard dingers.

A sequencer, I would never stoop so low. Now im genuinely insulted. You could have retorted with anything but that

That was real low

Quote ow:

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Ive got a Chad Valley original fifties tin tambourine. Its blue with a black star behind a ballerina and harlequine with green dingers.

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How much d’you want for it?

Quote ow:

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... never stoop so low (as) a sequencer. Now im genuinely insulted. That was real low

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Sorry, Sorry, Sorry - it’s just that as a meejah tosser, even though I expound the joys of live sessions, no clicks, or samples blah blah blah, I’m a Logic Slave

Quote ow:

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You could have retorted with anything but that!

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Okay, how about this, UP YOURS UGLY!


NOW THEN CLASS....

Anything you want answered regarding PRS MCPS issues? This is a final request.




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Big George

I hope you mean... anything ELSE? My little fingers still hurt from all that typing.

Quote Big George:

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How much d’you want for it?

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I never use it. I'm gonna pop it in the post for you. You just have to be more nice to people in return.

I've got a question...

I'm a member of the PRS - do I also need to join the PPL to get airplay royalties? I thought not but now I'm not sure.

No you don't. The PRS royalty is for the publishing copyright owners and the PPL royalty is for the phonographic copyright owners.

You only need to join PPL if you own both.

This diagram is good:

The Music Universe (PRS)