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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?!
      #180916 - 12/09/05 01:13 PM
re: what is the corredt level for the sub-woofer when mixing in 2:1. I'm in the music technology staff room at our college. nobody here knows, does anyone have the answer?!?


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The Byre



Joined: 27/03/05
Posts: 1674
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180923 - 12/09/05 01:24 PM
As you can see, I have given a reply of sorts on the other posting you made, but let me make a simple couple of observations . . .

1. Don't students go to a college to learn that kind of thing from lecturers and professors?

2. Dosn't the college have a propper monitoring system and didn't the manufacturer or supplier test the room and adjust the levels for you?

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Neil C
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180924 - 12/09/05 01:25 PM
Blue Sky monitors have a subwoofer calibration guide plus a set of calibration tones for download.

http://www.abluesky.com/p_s_gb/p5s10.html

You'll need an SPL meter.

There's further info about sub placement in the media desk manual that you can download.

You must be able to get loads about this from Google.
Look up 'subwoofer calibration'.

Or this SOS article
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jul02/articles/subwoofers.asp
(smithee beat me to that one - but it did take about 3 seconds to find)


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Nige1



Joined: 26/09/04
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180926 - 12/09/05 01:27 PM
I'd be worried why no one in the music tech staff room of your college knows this.

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MSN: rich@nrgproductions.co.uk


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Nige1



Joined: 26/09/04
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: Nige1]
      #180927 - 12/09/05 01:29 PM
Which college is it please?, i'm very very curious to know.

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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: Nige1]
      #180931 - 12/09/05 01:33 PM
we prefer to keep this anonymous. Atleast we're trying to find the answer to this question, because we care.


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4357
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180932 - 12/09/05 01:37 PM

Is it......? SAE. Hahahahaha.


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Nige1



Joined: 26/09/04
Posts: 134
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: The real musiclover]
      #180935 - 12/09/05 01:41 PM
WOW this is incredible.

Several months back I was seriously contemplating weather to go to SAE or to a traditional uni.


I'm so glad I did my reasearch.

But we're not saying it's SAE...are we???

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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180938 - 12/09/05 01:45 PM
i couldn't comment on whether we are SAE. But surely we can't know everything about everything, and judging by the answers we've had, like 'use your ears' it seems like none of you guys knows the answer, at least not a proper quantifiable scientific answer...


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Smithee



Joined: 07/09/04
Posts: 703
Loc: London, England
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: The real musiclover]
      #180939 - 12/09/05 01:46 PM
Quote jaybee:

we prefer to keep this anonymous. Atleast we're trying to find the answer to this question, because we care.




I'm not suprised. I'd probably want to remain anonymous too!
Your quest for knowledge is very noble but I can't imagine you've tried too hard.
It took me a total of 3 seconds to find this article from the SOS archives:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul02/articles/subwoofers.asp

I haven't read and so don't know if it specifically covers what you want, but I think the point is proven.
No one expects the tutor to have all the answers off the top of their heads, but the ability to search from well known sources and at least an understanding of the thoery behind it is not unreasonable .

Quote The real musiclover:


Is it......? SAE. Hahahahaha.




I would seriously not be suprised

BTW it seems every other Studio SOS features these days has some talk about positioning of sub woofers etc...

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Edited by Smithee (12/09/05 01:53 PM)


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4357
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: Nige1]
      #180940 - 12/09/05 01:47 PM

No, but it could be.....? All that 'effin money they make and asking us lot, and then moaning cause we haven't come up with magic solutions (or ones understood) in a few hours.

If it's a LEA college, then it's understandable, if a private audio specialist (ahem) school....


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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: The real musiclover]
      #180942 - 12/09/05 01:49 PM
let's not get too hostile people. back to the original question-whats the correct level for the sub in 2:1-can anyone supply the answer???


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Nige1



Joined: 26/09/04
Posts: 134
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180943 - 12/09/05 01:49 PM
Yah exactly!!! but we're not the ones at a college where music tech is studied and taught asking for advice on how to setup a subwoofer.

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MSN: rich@nrgproductions.co.uk


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4357
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180946 - 12/09/05 01:52 PM
Quote jaybee:

i couldn't comment on whether we are SAE... ...seems like none of you guys knows the answer, at least not a proper quantifiable scientific answer...




Whoever you are, whatever you charge... It's too much.

You seem to have had a couple of answers with at least a semblance of science on your other thread.

Ooh, goad us into giving the right answer.


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4357
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: The real musiclover]
      #180949 - 12/09/05 01:54 PM

You think this is hostile? You haven't lived.


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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180950 - 12/09/05 01:55 PM
It seems we have discovered the 'emperor's new clothes'nobody knows how to do this. The staff at this college are at the vanguard.


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Jorge
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180951 - 12/09/05 01:55 PM
Bob Katz wrote a useful piece on this in his book, Mastering Audio. A similar version is on his website here. Room acoustics addressing low frequency modes is also important in setting up a subwoofer.


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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: Jorge]
      #180952 - 12/09/05 01:56 PM
thanks for a constructive answer, will check the answer, we have this book in our library. we are very well equipped at this college, don't you know.


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4357
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180954 - 12/09/05 01:57 PM
Quote jaybee:

The staff at this college are at the vanguard.




Meaning outside standing by the Transit?


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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180958 - 12/09/05 02:00 PM
maybe you could work on your joke skills.


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Nige1



Joined: 26/09/04
Posts: 134
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180959 - 12/09/05 02:01 PM
Quote jaybee:

we are very well equipped at this college, don't you know.




What college???..Have I missed something?

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MSN: rich@nrgproductions.co.uk


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4357
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180960 - 12/09/05 02:01 PM

Maybe you could work on your sub woofer set up skills.


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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180961 - 12/09/05 02:02 PM
very good.


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4357
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180962 - 12/09/05 02:04 PM

I thought so.


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The Byre



Joined: 27/03/05
Posts: 1674
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180965 - 12/09/05 02:07 PM
Quote jaybee:

It seems we have discovered the 'emperor's new clothes'nobody knows how to do this. The staff at this college are at the vanguard.




What's the bloody matter with you? I gave you the answer in your other posting. Also several people here have pointed you at a host of places where you can read up on this subject.

It is fair to point out that this is fairly basic stuff and that your lecturers should know this kind of thing.

Just for the record, I wrote in answer to your other posting "Try C-weighted sound meter at the mix position and pink noise through the system. Volume from sub should be the same as the volume from the left and then the right (ie. not the two together). The result is more acurate if you divide the sound up into bass and mid-highs before putting it through the system, so you will have to know what the X-over frequency is of your system (most seem to be at 80Hz)."

You asked us - we answered and now you are being rude. I just don't get it!

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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 4357
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: The Byre]
      #180967 - 12/09/05 02:08 PM

Neither does he (or she?) Nah, definitely a he.


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Nige1



Joined: 26/09/04
Posts: 134
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: The Byre]
      #180970 - 12/09/05 02:13 PM
Quote The Byre:

Quote jaybee:

It seems we have discovered the 'emperor's new clothes'nobody knows how to do this. The staff at this college are at the vanguard.




What's the bloody matter with you?




LOL classic...oh btw thanks for the advice a while back Byre

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Aim: R1ch on A1m
MSN: rich@nrgproductions.co.uk


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jaybee



Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 63
Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180984 - 12/09/05 02:25 PM
we asked for the correct LEVEL, none of the replies can provide a definitive to this exact point. Anyway, if you look over the thread, you'll see we were only responding to other peoples hostility......

Edited by jaybee (12/09/05 02:28 PM)


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Neil C
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180985 - 12/09/05 02:33 PM
Try reading some of the things you've been given links to. In what way do they not answer your question?


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Ultimate Fish
posting's fun


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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180986 - 12/09/05 02:34 PM
I think everyone who answered your question assumed you were talking about how to setup a subwoofer correctly. It now sounds like you're wanting to know what SPL the sub should be putting out... that's a meaningless question and there is no meaningful answer.

If you want to know how to setup a subwoofer correctly, then your question has already been answered. Search on SOS or contact the manufacturer who should provide you with the information you need. M&K, for example, are incredibly helpful.


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Sle



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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180987 - 12/09/05 02:35 PM
We?

I'm sure you'll get your piece of paper and natty job whether anyone answers your question or not.

--------------------
Stuff what I done


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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: Sle]
      #180989 - 12/09/05 02:37 PM

Wahey! Bingo.

Contact the manufacturer, always a good start.


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Neil C
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180993 - 12/09/05 02:41 PM
http://www.abluesky.com/p_s_gb/p5s10.html

This link I gave earlier shows a chart of common calibration levels.
Were those figures not to your liking?


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The Byre



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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180995 - 12/09/05 02:45 PM
There is no one level. Only a complete and utter idiot would entertain the idea that there is one set level for listening to music. The only thing you have to worry about is the comparative levels of the stereo pair and the sub within the usual range of volumes. Now go away and read, learn and inwardly digest EVERYTHING that Bob Katz has to write on the subject.

http://www.digido.com/portal/pmodule_id=11/pmdmode=fullscreen/pageadder_pa ge_id=29/

When you've done that, come back with any questions that you might have and I for one shall be all only too happy to answer them.

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Studio Support Gnome
Not so Miserable Git


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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180996 - 12/09/05 02:48 PM
Quote jaybee:

we asked for the correct LEVEL, none of the replies can provide a definitive to this exact point. Anyway, if you look over the thread, you'll see we were only responding to other peoples hostility......




Because the operation of the sub is inextricably linked to the positioning within the room, and it's interaction with the other drivers, and the overall system's interaction with the room's physical acoustic parameters...... there is NO definitive answer to that point without knowing ALL the other variables


if you and the rest of your teaching department aren't aware of that, then you or any of the other staff are IMHO probably incompetent to be teaching music technology

probably so much so that the answer to this "question" is probably something laughable like Nominally +4dBu line level, the same as the input to the active monitors you're probably using....

where you might derive the signal from is anyone's guess, since, fortunately, we don't know what else is involved at whichever college this is.


Max

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Don't get the hump when i tell you it's going to be expensive, it's not my fault , you picked the site/building/room â


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Michael Harrison
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180997 - 12/09/05 02:49 PM
Ultimate Fish said it.

Jaybee, your question is too vague to give a specific answer. It's like asking "What's the correct type of tyres to use on my car? It's a front-wheel drive".

In order to answer that, you must also tell us:

Car make/type
Engine size/power
Intended terrain type
Probable driving conditions
Intended purpose/use of the vehicle

...and many other possible points. One could go on forever, but some info is usually a good starting point.

Before you accuse me of hostility too, I studied at SAE Glasgow, so have no interest in flaming them. I'd be highly surprised if you were a member of staff from SAE.

It strikes me that you're more likely a student (than staff) who can't be bothered doing his own research, and is getting indignant when no-one obliges you with a ready-made reply.

If you are staff, you have no right to be charging/teaching anyone. Not because you have to ask questions regarding something (everyone has to sometimes), but you can't even present the question in a suitable manner or with sufficient supplementary information to allow anyone to answer fully.

Tell me, how would you reply if a student asked you "What's the correct level for the faders [on the console] to sit at for a good mix?"



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Michael Harrison
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #180998 - 12/09/05 02:51 PM
Bloody hell, multiple crossed posts.

My typing really takes a hit when I have a head cold. Where's the *sniff* graemlin?!

Mike

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neilneil
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #181003 - 12/09/05 02:57 PM
oh, by the way, just a quick question,

is the subwoofer made by Goodmans or Aiwa?

and did you buy it in Dixons?


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Michael Harrison
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: jaybee]
      #181004 - 12/09/05 02:57 PM
Jaybee, I've just seen your other post asking about mic'ing a flute.

I'm now convinced you're a student looking for homework answers. If not, and you are a member of staff at an MT facility, then you have to rank as one of the laziest and most incompetent I've ever heard of.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly stand to be corrected. I'm not holding my breath however.

Mike

--------------------
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The real musiclover



Joined: 01/09/04
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Re: NO REPLIES-nobody knows? or nobody cares?! new [Re: Michael Harrison]
      #181006 - 12/09/05 03:02 PM
Quote Michael Harrison:



I'm not holding my breath however.

Mike




Especially with that head cold, eh?

Try Sudafed. Easier than setting up a subwoofer.


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