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11th Hour
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Joined: 19/11/03
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Cubase SX midi mute / solo delay new
      #244896 - 30/01/06 09:07 AM
Hi everyone,

I run Cubase SX2, and have been having an ongoing problem with the mute and solo buttons in MIDI.
When I mute or solo a midi track, it takes half a second or more to register the action and bring the track in or out. This makes it pretty much impossible to do any kind of live work without sequencing the tracks, as every move has to be done slightly ahead of time. This doesn't happen with audio tracks, just midi - and it makes no difference whether the project has 1 track or 100, it still has the same lag.

I use the Steinberg Midex8 to control the midi signal, but this has made no difference, I have the same delay now as I did before buying it. Everything else works perfectly, there's no latency on the system at all.

My friend runs SL and he has exactly the same problem, so I'm assuming it's fairly common. I also used to have the same issue in Cubase 5.1 - but never in Logic or Cakewalk, they would cut the midi in and out instantly. It seems ridiculous that such a simple command would take so long to respond, so I'm hoping that there's some setting in Cubase that I've overlooked.

Any advice would be very much appreciated!
Matt

Specs:
AMD Athalon XP 2.5ghz
512 ram
Cubase SX2
Steinberg Midex 8
Echo Gina 24


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TTN



Joined: 14/11/04
Posts: 1087
Re: Cubase SX midi mute / solo delay new [Re: 11th Hour]
      #244977 - 30/01/06 11:42 AM
i think it's just that Cubase wasn't designed for live work, and as such is crap at doing things like muting and soloing. I recommend buying something like an Alesis MMT-8 second hand off ebay for this kind of thing (something like £45 is a good price), or you could try another piece of software - like Ableton Live - may be easier to control.


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Martin WalkerModerator
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Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Cubase SX midi mute / solo delay new [Re: 11th Hour]
      #245048 - 30/01/06 01:19 PM
Hi Matt, and welcome to the SOS Forums!

Are you sure the effect you talk about isn't simply due to latency (the size of your soundcard's ASIO buffers)? For a Mute/Solo function to be heard on an audio track the command needs to act on the audio stream, which will then be heard when the next buffers are sent to the soundcard.

So, if your latency is 12mS (512 samples at 44.1kHz) it will be at least 12mS before a mute is heard. If it takes 1/2 a second or more, then it may be that you're using MME or DirectX drivers, instead of true ASIO ones.

Just a thought anyway!


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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11th Hour
new member


Joined: 19/11/03
Posts: 2
Re: Cubase SX midi mute / solo delay new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #245074 - 30/01/06 01:55 PM
Thanks for the replies. It's definitely nothing to do with latency though - I've set my Echo at 8ms, and everything on the system is really tight - but the delay between pressing a mute and having it respond is more like 50ms - 1sec.

I know Live is far better for that kind of work, and I do actually use an MMT8 from time to time, but it just seems such a fundamental fault with Cubase that it couldn't possibly be an intentional part of the design? I don't understand how it could take so long really, all it has to do is stop sending midi data! Like I say, it responds instantly for audio parts, and records / plays back midi perfectly, it's only muting midi parts that triggers the delay...


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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17600
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Cubase SX midi mute / solo delay new [Re: 11th Hour]
      #245210 - 30/01/06 05:32 PM
Whoops - didn't read your post closely enough Matt.

Just done some tests, and you're right - muting a MIDI track sometimes takes up to a bar to respond. That's appalling! I'm amazed I've never noticed it before (but then I've never tried to automate using mutes)

If you're using VST Instruments you could mute the audio channel instead of the MIDI one for an instant response, or for external synths possibly sending MIDI controller #7 or #11 information from an external MIDI controller with values of 0 (mute) or 127 (full volume). Since Cubase re-channelises incoming information you could possibly dedicate two hardware buttons on an external controller (or a single one with toggled values) as mute, but this still wouldn't give you a solo function.

Steinberg obviously consider MIDI channel muting a very low priority task in the overall scheme of things


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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TTN



Joined: 14/11/04
Posts: 1087
Re: Cubase SX midi mute / solo delay new [Re: Martin Walker]
      #245274 - 30/01/06 07:14 PM
Quote Martin Walker:


Steinberg obviously consider MIDI channel muting a very low priority task in the overall scheme of things





Along with a dedicated MIDI panic button - why didnt Steinberg put that in v3?

Try this, can't tell you whether it will work not near Cubase right now:

Devices->Device Setup...->VST Multitrack->Expert...-> change the 'Audio Priority' to Low


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Martin WalkerModerator
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Joined: 28/02/01
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Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Cubase SX midi mute / solo delay [Re: TTN]
      #245709 - 31/01/06 02:58 PM
Timmy - I agree about the lack of a dedicated MIDI panic button, but unfortunately that tweak you suggest doesn't make any difference to the mute/solo time lags (just tested it to make sure)


Martin

--------------------
YewTreeMagic


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