Hi everyone,

I'm a Industrial Student at Loughborough University. I'm currently looking into the possibilites to build a new 21st century Keytar. I figure with a lot of live acts coming back to stage there is a potential need for it. But before I can get on with this I'm looking for ways to improve its functions. Therefore I was wondering if anyone has played a Keytar before like the Roland AX1 or 7. If you have I'd dearly appreciate it if you could share your experience with me and maybe even suggest improvements or wishes of how you would like a Keytar to perform and what kind of things you expect most of it. You can either reply to me over the forum or directly send an email to Pomstar13@yahoo.com

Thank you very much!

where on earth did you get the name Keytar? Sounds like one of those naff |Casio made-up names...

I assume you mean a neck-worn keyboard controller?

Can`t think of anything you could do that would be sufficiently new different or otherwise earth shattering to justify doing it as a uni project.
there are still tons of these types of thingies out there, but in any case most keyboard players go with a short (49 key?) neck worn standard controller keyboard, of which there are zillions to choose from already.

Only thing I can think of that would be useful-ish would be wireless MIDI but again you have been beaten to the punch a long time ago.

Well first of all, I didn't come up with the KEYTAR name. That's what they were known as in the 80's.And yes they were plasticy and horrible Casio ones. I don't really like the name either but it describes best what it does. You are certainly right about the 49 Midi controllers but can you seriously see yourself as cool on a stage with one of those hanging around your neck and don't forget the weight. With my project I'm aiming to radically change the looks of it to a more maybe contemporary style rather than the brick-ish plasticy look that also applies to most synths and keyboards. The "fret" bar will be used to change Midi controls and other effects.

Quote Pomstar13:

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I'm a Industrial Student at . . .

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Industrial what? Design? Software? Manaufacture? Processing? Supply? Or does that just mean that you are hard working?

I can think of many things that are missing from today's musical instrument and equipment market, but like the man says, the Keytar just is not one of them. It sounds like a solution looking for a problem!

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www.the-byre.com No longer Forum Member

Oh dear,
I forgot the important part in all the hassle. It's Industrial Design - I know right now it seems very hard to bring life into this "keytar" product. However would it not be worth a shot designing a Keytar that would for a change not look like something to hit the lead guitarist with? I was thinking into a clean Ipod style or even more a wood laminate urban Design. Wouldn't that be interesting for a change? 10 assignable MIDI control wheels for the "fret" bar and a Program Bank on top of the keys. Build in rechargeable battery and wireless MIDI. It's been nearly 10 years since Roland brought out the AX7 it's time for new remote keyboard.

Don't forget about having a MIDI controller whammy bar as well then if going for the guitar look.

Oh,Si - you are such a wag! I can just imagine myself up there strutting my stuff with a tele+hipshot for the ass- shaking linedance numbers then switching to Kee-tarr (yeeha,y`all) for that "pretending Ivor Biggun and playing with it" look when doing Billy Ray Cyrus covers.

Perhaps he could do a non-urban "country" version with a saddle and harness? You caught me on a lots of pain pills morning so perhaps my judgement is slightly off..

Oh do you think he would do a one handed version for me?

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!

Sorry I'm quite new to all this MIDI stuff. What exactly is a Whammy Bar? Thanks!

"Whammy bar" is a more modern name for a guitar tremelo arm. It's usage is more associated with the Floyd Rose and Kahler makes of trem (which by using clamped strings allows the strings to go slack on the fretboard with extreme usage) as opposed to the more polite Fender and Bigsby verions.

Now if only you could design a latency free MIDI guitar which tracked perfectly, followed every little nuance and was tolerant of sloppy technique then that would be worth designing!

Quote Pomstar13:

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. It's been nearly 10 years since Roland brought out the AX7 it's time for new remote keyboard.

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My view on them after owning an AX-1 is that their just a gimmick and nothing more,i paid almost 400 quid for mine back in 1995,and sold it earlier this year for half that.

joke about them is that in order to use them on stage you then (at the time i bought mine)had to shell out the best part of 400 quid again for a decent infra red transmitter in order to use it effectively on stage,either that or you could get away with a 25 ft midi cable,but it sort of defeats the whole idea imo.

Given that between the AX-1 and the AX-7 all there seems to be is the numeric display and a D-beam controllor,Roland seem to be the only one in the whole Remote market,and that is purely because there is very little market for such items,yes of course like you say back in the 80s ,they were probably more fashionable,but you had more choice,The Yam KX5 and some Linn thingy that Jan hammer uses,Korg also made a strap on affair(OOH er misses)but to be quite honest you very rarely see many performers use them nowadays i think Justin hawkins from the Darkness uses an AX-7 so do the human league and French Keyboard maestro JMJarre uses the AX-1 with reversed colour keys.

I have never seen any non pro act use them on stage,they just don't have the sex appeal on stage like a guitarist,thats why i sold mine

Personal interest in them again would only arouse if they build a half decent controllor that would blow the AX off the shelf,the AX has very limited controls compared to some of the dedicated controllors,whilst they dont aim at the strap on market,the AX series has very little flexibility,i would like to see some sort of wireless USB intergration of a newer Keytar, rather than shelling out some 400 quid for a decent infra red transmitter,its bit like buying a 10 grand car and then having to shell out another 10 grand for an engine..

Its a nice project your working on,but to be totally honest,if you plan to make something of a market for it,you need to have a blessed interest in ideas of your own rather than trying to improve from users feedback,if your looking for ideas from Others you maybe have little of no experience of them yourself,in order to make something be musician Friendly and improve whats already been,then you could do with some Experience of such devices,that way you'd easily see what you could make to improve the competition,and produce a worthy Keytar,a few cosmetics is easy but its the OS that needs to be unique and the sole reason why it sells

Your ideas sound good,but remember that most Keyboard controllors are bulkier than a remote so thats why they feature very little in the way of front panel control,the AX1 can be no more than about 6 inch or so depth,when you consider that a Keybed takes up 3/4 of that there little room for anything else other than few push buttons,to make anything larger would defeat the whole idea of it being more compact for the keyboard player,and also increased weight,anyone whos picked up a Moog liberation will tell you that weight limit is important,i have never seen another remote unlike the liberation,as it actually includes a synth engine within it and not just a dummy remote,which is something you could consider for a future project


Hears a few remotes i know of this one is my fav and takes on innovative design(if you could make one of those i'd buy one)

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stoffelshome.de/alt_co ntroller/insecte.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stoffelshome.de/alt_controller/insecte.html& amp;h=191&w=390&sz=9&tbnid=sxgD8DgIvqAJ:&tbnh=58&tbnw=120&hl=en&am p;start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3DLag%2BInsecte%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG



http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stoffelshome.de/alt_co ntroller/circulaire.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stoffelshome.de/alt_controller/circulaire .html&h=190&w=485&sz=11&tbnid=6SqrXelt7JwJ:&tbnh=49&tbnw=126&h l=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3DLag%2BInsecte%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa% 3DG



http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://echigoyamusic.com/used/ima ges/used/711.jpg&imgrefurl=http://echigoyamusic.com/used/used_search.cgi%3FID%3D711&am p;h=300&w=400&sz=31&tbnid=4wPEKG_45tsJ:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&hl=en& ;start=8&prev=/images%3Fq%3DYamaha%2BKX5%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

Edited by Kinz (29/11/05 05:58 PM)

Hi Kinz,

thanks for that massive help and view point. Your webpages have proven really helpful. I do see your point that i should really be more up to date with all the electronic MIDI environment. See I'm more of a traditional Jazz pianist who happened to see a Keytar in one of his music books as a kid. Ever since I always wanted one cause I just loved the idea. I have done bits and bops with Sequencers but an Industrial Design course takes its toll in time. I'm desperately trying to catch up. You were mentioning adding more control features to the Keytar . I agree with that and I was plannig to add MIDI control knobs onto the fret bar. I am considering to replace these knobs, which are basically potentiometers with QTC wires (pressure sensitive). These would be located onto the Fret bar of the Keytar so they can be controlled with the "free" hand. However the only problem is that they can't retain a value and must be kept pressed, otherwise they go back to 0. Not particularly helpful with Reverb settings, etc. So I will just stick to well positioned Mod wheels that can be assigned with different controls. I have moved away from curved Keyboards since they are very hard to integrate into the Keytar body and could cause further strain when playing.(If anyone has ever played on a curved Keyboard please share the experience!)Regarding the wireless USB connection I did check on the web about wireless USB. Unfortunately not yet available but in development. Nonetheless I was plannig to include a wireless MIDI control unit (which are surprisingly very expensive), therefore it will be an optional component.
Thanks a lot again,
Pommi

Please keep on contributing your opinions and ideas!

Edited by Pomstar13 (30/11/05 04:12 PM)

You mention that wireless midi is expensive.

What are the options available today for a guitarist looking to connect a midi pickup and connect wireless to a variety of synths?

What are the costs involved?

Thanks.

-- Eka

i just saw sonata arctica and that guy was playing a keytar
JP

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www.symphonicmetalband.com