Hi all

just a quick question....

Everytime i hear a recording of a live performance of mine i don't really like the sound.
Would it be advisable that, rather than sending the keyboards signal to the main mixer via my little stage mixer, i send it from my stage monitor instead?

in this way i could make my own eqs, send it to my stage monitor and then, once i'm happy with the sound, i can feed the main mixer through my stage monitor "mixed line out".

hope this make sense.. ;-)

cheers

See the other thread about mixing from the stage. It is rarely a good idea.

The mixes sound strange for a reason - there's probably all kinds of spill from the stage so the mix needed to make things sound good at the gig will be very different to the mix needed to make your mixes sound good at home.

Cheers

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

It all depends whether your recordings sound anything like what the audience is hearing. Have you got anyone who has heard a performance and can compare it against a recording of one?

The keyboards also have to be EQ'd to sit in the FOH mix and what you hear or EQ in isolation may not be best for the gig.

Don't forget that volume affects the tonal balance of sound as well and it may sound fine at gig volumes and a bit weak at normal listening volumes.

hem...maybe i didn't explain it very well...

my aim is not recording live performances.
i'm only trying to improve the way the keyboards sound at live gigs. Sometimes, when a crap sound engeneer is doing the main sound, the result is really awful.

so i thought that, by sending him a mixed signal (from my monitor "mixed line out"), i would somehow bypass his poor capabilities and make the whole keyboard sound a bit better.
on satge as well as in the main concert hall.

ciao

I'd only do it if you can audition the sound, and have a trusted person in the hall to advise of any problems.

However, I'd tell the SE what you want in sound-terms.

But, my main point would be that a live recording, off the main desk outputs will almost never sound good, as there is a lot of sound coming off stage. So the mix from the desk will be skewed to vocals, an odd drum-mix, too much or too little bass, depending on the phase-agreement between bass-cab and the PA. Oh, and there will be shed-loads of reverb and delay, if used, on the track, as the reverb applied will be lost in the extra noise from stage, and room-clutter.

On top of that, the keys (amongst everything else) may well have an odd EQ if the PAs response is not near-flat.

So, I'd suggest going out front with someone playing the keys, or rely on trusted people to report back.

Hope this helps!

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PA stuff on FB

As a kind of aside comment, its normally rare enough for a SE to make a mess of a keyboard sound. I know that me and most of the other SE's who work for the same company very rarely process a keyboard sound much, especially if your using a few of them and sending just a stereo out from your own mini mixer. Might be worth asking the SE at your next gig to do the same.

Geoff Irwin

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right.........

but that's the point....

if a SE applies an eq on say 5 keyboards (out of one only stereo signal) he will add, for example, more bass to my piano because the sound needs it; but it will also add more bass to the pad that i'm triggering from the piano via midi....and also to that scratchy lead i'm gonna solo with for 10 seconds in the middle of the tune...

what's the way out from this nightmare ;-) ??

stop the reality I WANT TO GET OFF !!

Ciao

well thats the thing. If your handing an engineer two stero outs most engineer's (that i know at least) will assume that everything coming from behind that stereo out has been set up to sound like you want it. If your piano needs more bass the easiest solution is for you to provide that eq boost on your mini mixer etc etc which is something that should be figured out at soundcheck. Assuming that you are happy with all your sounds you really just have to tell the SE that you want no processing at all to happen at his end, your doing it all on yours. I'd be really surprised at an engineer who didn't get that concept to be honsent. At your next gig just make sure you make a point of saying that i guess.

Geoff

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right.........

"If your handing an engineer two stero outs most engineer's (that i know at least) will assume that everything coming from behind that stereo out has been set up to sound like you want it."

Yes but i will set up the sounds according to the way i hear em on stage.

When you do the processing in a hall (as you well know), it's another kettle of fish.
The stage can be boomy and so you cut off some bass end from your piano, but, in the meantime, the same sound might need more bass in the hall. And, by adding more bass to the piano in the hall, you are adding the same bass ends to all the other keys sounds i will be using.

"If your piano needs more bass the easiest solution is for you to provide that eq boost on your mini mixer etc etc which is something that should be figured out at soundcheck. "

Read above ;-)

Ciao

Ah sorry, now i see what your getting at. In that case its really a question of you having your sounds set up the way you like them in your home or rehearsal space. When it comes to the gig if the stage sound is boomy, tinny, etc don't compensate for that on your set up but point it out to the engineer who should be able to sort out the monitors through eqing and/or placement. Worse case scenaario is that the stage sound still won't be right (could be anumber of factors that prevent the SE from doing this) but your FOH sounds should still be as you programme them. But again whatever you do, don't start changing your sounds. When you don't have your own SE it is a case of having to trust who ever the venue or the PA company provides. In this type of sceaniro communication is key. Let your guy know what the problems are and most (decent) engineers are happy to help as much as they can.

Geoff

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right.........

Being a Se who works 6 nights a week, with normally four bands a night, I do very little to keys/synths etc.. normally I have to roll a bit of LF off and maybe tweak around 250hz-1k, but thats more to do with room acoustics and pa eq.

As one of the guys said, set it up how you want it to sound, then leave it. If you get a good se they should say "can you add/cut some bass on X instrument, add little mid on Y instrument, Z sounds great!". It will probably sound strange on stage, but that will be due to the foldback mix being eq'd as well. Your stage sound for keys should only ever sound less livelier than your home sound. What I mean is if its booming or sounding extremely harsh then there's problems with foldback eq, if your sounds just a bit dull or not quite right, then everything should be cool!

thanks