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David EtheridgeModerator



Joined: 10/04/02
Posts: 1014
Notator tips
      #278444 - 05/04/06 08:27 AM
Hi folks,
here's a wonderful mini tutorial on Notator from Tim's site. Though aimed at Notator users like yours truly, there's probably useful info for any sequencer and atari user.
Read and enjoy; many thanks to Tim Conrardy and 'Altered 7th'(the mighty Ken Merbler) for the post.

Starts here:
Every year around about this time I make a new "Notator Master" disk to
boot from. It's a time to clear my old system set-ups, consolidate
track/part naming conventions, and anything else I think should load
with with "autoload.son". In the past I've had quite a complex set-up
with a Mega4 (no HD) as the hub, a Kawai MAV-8 midi switcher, 2x1040s
(one running an old version of Band-in-a-box and the other dedicated to
an editor for my DX7 which also provided me with a defacto second
keyboard controller via the 1040 when it was switched as the Midi-A
input), a Roland VK1000 and A90-ex as the primary two master keyboards
and a raft of modules. This year, because of space restrictions, I've
had to scale things down to just the MEGA4, VK & A90 keys, and a Roland
SC88 module. A Roland VS1680 HD recorder occupies the 4th midi input of
my midi switcher - the VK1000 is the one mostly used for inputing note
information and indirectly, its inadequacies as a master keyboard (as
compared to the A90-ex) led me to experiment with a function of Notator
which I haven't really tried in all the years I've been using the
program.

The VK1000 is a great keyboard for live performance of Hammond-ish
organ stuff but the only
  • real-time MIDI controller it has is a pitch
    bender - joy stick, not pitch wheel (All my volume/expression pedals
    and foot controllers are tied up in use with the A90 which, because of
    its location in my room, is not the ideal for using regularly as the
    master keyboard when doing fiddly sequencing stuff).

    What I've discovered are some nifty tricks that can be done in Notator
    to reassign this joy stick pitch bend info from the VK1000 in real time
    to other things. It works something like this:

    1. In the "Transform" window, top left hand corner, select a number
    from 1 to 10 and name it whatever you like (I'll use "1" and name it
    "Pitch>Expression" in this example)

    2. In the same window, "Condition - Status" select "ON/PitchWH"

    3. In the "Transform Model/Status" line below, select "CONTROL" and
    then in the "ONE" box select "11" (CC#11, Expression Continuous
    Controller)

    4. Close the Transform window and open "Midi/Input Handling" and in the
    box "Transform No." select "1"

    What this will now do is convert all incoming pitch wheel information
    to CC#11 (expression) info. It does this in real time and you can hear
    the results as you're playing them. It also writes the info directly to
    the track as CC#11 info saving MUCH time in inserting this info
    manually using the EDIT window. With this particular example, because
    pitch wheel/joy sticks default to the center position (value = 64),
    this will mean the "Expression" level will revert to this value
    everytime you let go of the joy stick or pitch wheel, but this is
    easily increased with a minimal amount of effort if the level is too
    low for mix purposes.

    Uses:

    1. Because pitch wheels and joy sticks are spring loaded it means you
    can do quick "bursts" of increases or decreases of levels reverting
    back to a central level with the flick of a finger. This kind of
    physical control is far more accurate than trying to do the same thing
    with a foot controller and FAR more easy than inserting all the changes
    manually.

    In a musical sense, this kind of dynamic control is especially useful
    when sequencing brass parts (particularly brass sections in big bands)
    to achieve "realism". In a brass section, say when everybody comes
    together to "hit" a chord, because of the nature of brass instruments
    in performance, the initial attack of the note is louder than the
    "body" which follows. Depending on the length of the sustain desired,
    the sound can again be gradually increased to create that familiar
    "swell" heard in brass sections. Another use in sequencing realism is
    in instruments such as individual saxes where the notes at the end of
    phrases taper off slightly in level before ending. Using the pitch
    wheel to control expression like this more acurately reproduces the
    natural effect created by the human breath when playing any wind
    instrument.

    2. Modules such as the Roland Soundcanvas use Continuous Controllers
    such as "CC#71" for "resonance" of the sound. By assigning the pitch
    wheel to this controller it becomes very easy to mimic those bizarre
    filter sweeps which old analog synths could easily do by the simple
    twisting of a knob. These types of controllers (resonance, attack,
    sustain, etc) generally have a default setting of value 64 and thus are
    well suited to being controlled from a pitch wheel which defaults to
    the same value.

    3. If you have a keyboard which can output on two midi channels
    simultaneously (such as the VK1000), the "Pitch>Controller" transform
    can create some really interesting effects. For example, I set the VK
    to output to midi channels 1 and 2. On channel 1 I might select a
    strings patch and channel 2, a choir. I haven't played with it enough
    to know why but the "Transform" function only works on one of the
    voices and as you shift the pitch wheel only one of the voices detunes
    (or raises in pitch). Lots of interesting pitch-fluctuating layered
    "drone" sounds can be quickly created this way.

    4. Other controllers to experiment with include CC#91 (reverb level)
    CC#93 (Chorus) and CC#94 (delay). The assigning of the pitch wheel to
    CC#6 (data entry slider) really comes into its own when the Soundcanvas
    "Insertion FX" are selected (using sys-ex and probably getting too far
    off topic for this group)

    5. Because I tend to record a lot of my sequenced parts "live" this
    reassigning/transform is fantastic for speeding up my work. However,
    you don't have to do everything all at once! Take a part which you
    might have step-inputted, for example. On another track record the
    "live" pitch bend info transformed to whatever other controller you
    want and then mix it down with the original once you're happy with it.
    Even if you played the note part live, make three or four more passes
    (on seperate tracks to mix down) using a different transform model each
    time and building up expression, resonance, portamento time (CC#5),
    chorus or whatever other FX your modules give you control over. In many
    ways it's a lot like the sorts of things which can be done on the RMG
    page except you have the tactile surety of your keyboard hardware
    rather than fiddling with using the mouse as a slider. It's an
    amazingly powerful little feature of Notator!

    6. Lastly, Notator's INPUT HANDLING allows you to create 10
    user-defined transform models (30 in all if you have the added inputs
    of Unitor) which are all stored as system info/part of AUTOLOAD.SON.

    Happy sequencing!

    Ken



    PS:
  • The VK1000's drawbars unfortunately only output sys-ex and not
    controller (CC) info. The "TRANSFORM" function allows you to assign ANY
    controller to ANY other parameter - not just continuous controllers.
    You could, for example, assign your keyboard's modulation wheel (CC#1)
    to a P_USER event such as tempo. Also, within the TRANSFORM editing
    window you can also select "ranges" of events to be affected so that
    the pitch wheel only transforms things to values you've set for it
    (within a certain range or outside a range or only when the pitch wheel
    value = 127, etc) It's really MAGIC!



    As usual, feel free to add ideas of your own; this way on the forum we can construct a database of useful hints and tips for all.
    This is your forum folks!

    best wishes,
    Dave.


    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....


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    David EtheridgeModerator



    Joined: 10/04/02
    Posts: 1014
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #285724 - 22/04/06 09:22 AM
    And here's some hints from Phil Shackleton's article on Notator from a 1991 Keyboard mag; my notes in parentheses.

    To hear a desired sound when recording a track that you want to be layered on more than one MIDI channel, assign a ghost track (or tracks) to the new track before you start recording (this works with more than one channel by the way).

    Keypad commands for start, stop, record and continue are all active in the edit screen. To move forward or backward one bar at a time, whether or not the music is playing, press the right of left bracket key.

    To move the notation or Hyperedit display forwards or backwards through the track by single bars, use the parenthesis ( ) keys in the keypad section at the right side of the computer keyboard.

    To see bar numbers and time sig changes in the edit screen that correspond to the bar numbers in the arrange list, select 'Global Position' in the Edit menu.

    When editing a looped track, you can toggle back and forward between two different edited versions without stopping the playback by using the 'Undo' key.

    Any track can be looped to a fraction of a beat by editing the time of a track loop marker as if it were a note.

    To avoid undesirable changes in the length of notes when transposing a track, transpose up or down by three octaves and then back to the required point.

    When noodling along to a track and you suddenly strike inspiration, don't stop playing, hit right shift return and what you've just played is recorded to an empty track (see the 'Notator newbie' posting).

    Macros (chapter 3.2 in the manual) are a great way of entering track names -bass, drums, etc. Create them and store them in Autoload.son.

    To scroll duration and time values in tens rather than ones, press and hold one mouse button (for direction) and press the other mouse button.

    Swap the mouse buttons directions by using shift-Z. This gives increases with the right and decreases with the left buttons.

    And some of my own:

    Use the # button to change the empty tracks MIDI chanel display to one you want without having to scroll through all the values. In other words, if you're changing to a previously recorded track on A3 from C11, click on the A3 track and press the # key. All unused tracks will change to the new MIDI channel.
    You can change a transposed track permanently by opening and closing an empty track and merging the transposed track with it. It will now show up in it's true pitch on the new track.

    Hope that this is useful; have you any other tips of your own?

    Dave.


    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....


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    David EtheridgeModerator



    Joined: 10/04/02
    Posts: 1014
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #302316 - 24/05/06 05:08 PM
    Here's a couple of other tips:
    Even though you're limited to 64 tracks (4 levels of 16 tracks per pattern), remember that each track can hold 16 channels of MIDI info!
    So if you find yourself running out of tracks, simply bounce the tracks down. You can always extract a MIDI channel later on for editing if needed.
    HOWEVER, be aware that you shouldn't mix port info when doing this. Only bounce down tracks/channel on the same MIDI port (A, C, E, whatever) so that you don't have channels A1 and E1 on the same track. Notator doesn't seem to recognise any different ports and so they'll ALL be on channel 1 and the separate ports won't be differentiated.
    This way, it's strictly possible to have everything you want using only six tracks: one for each port and using all 96 MIDI channels!
    And you can use other 'unused' tracks for RMG and other controller information.

    If you have a big rig like mine (22 synths and many of the mutlitimbral) you can set up a patch pattern in the same way, where one track suffices for each instrument. My own setup is: A1-2: DX5; A3-16, Kurzweil GX; E1; DR660, E2, TR707, E3-4, D550, E5-6, MKS70, E8-11, Procussion, E12: OSCar: F1-16 Kurz Pro 1; G1-16: Morpheus; H1-16: Kurz Pro2; I1-16: WSA1R.
    I tend to split the tracks by instrument, but it works out very easily,to set up a complete sound palette for the full studio on each tune.
    Of course remembering which patch number equals which sound is another matter entirely!

    Best wishes,
    Dave.



    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....


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    David EtheridgeModerator



    Joined: 10/04/02
    Posts: 1014
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #379880 - 13/11/06 08:10 AM
    Hi again folks,
    Here's some info on getting your Notator scores out into the wider computer world.
    I'm currently writing a series on Rock Band arranging techniques for Music Mart (SOS' sister magazine). Printing up the scores on a vintage HP deskjet is one way, but I had to get them into electronic format for e-mailing to the editor, the redoubtable John Moore. For those who don't know, when loading a printer adaptation, load 'IMAGES' rather than a particular printer, and name the file as XXX.IMG. This will then save the image to floppy (to port to a PC or Mac) or onto a hard drive if you use it.

    Here's some essential info from the Notator users group, who helped out as usual in their own inimitable way.

    For PC users:(begin quote)
    Dave it depends on the app you use.

    I save them as *.pcx [very clean clear images] and open them in Photoshop on the PC.

    But that is using snapshot program. There are several atari programs that can convert img to a suitable format i.e. *.tif, *.pcx and other suitable extension types. The PC/Mac should be able to import them.

    And another writer said:

    To answer _your_ question, what I do is save the img file, move it to the pc,
    open it in the wonderful (and free) Irfanview (which has a plugin for img
    files - www.irfanview.com) and then print it as a pdf, using a virtual
    printer (I find go2pdf works well - www.go2pdf.com).
    If you want to see an example (a single page only), go to
    http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/6977/freedownloads.html and click on
    God Bless as a pdf. The quality is great. From Irfanview, you can export the
    file in a huge number of formats (including tif, jpg etc) which you can load
    into Word or any other DTP software.


    For Mac users:
    On the Mac you can use Graphic Converter to display or convert Atari .IMG images:
    (http://www.lemkesoft.com/en/graphcon.htm).

    It's shareware, but at least on my Mac (which I bought a year ago) it came pre-installed for free and is on the installation DVDs.

    (end quotes).

    Many thanks for Laurie, the other Dave and Hallvard of the Notator users group for the info.




    So now we all know!

    Dave.

    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....

    Edited by David Etheridge (13/11/06 08:13 PM)


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    David EtheridgeModerator



    Joined: 10/04/02
    Posts: 1014
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #668855 - 18/10/08 04:10 PM
    Hi folks,
    It's amazing how over time your master disk of Notator can get corrupted with use. In the good ol' days when I was exclusively floppy (sounds painful ) I would have to sort out a new disk every year. The old one would start getting cranky.
    Even with hard drives this can be the case, so a good idea is to copy everything onto a backup, reformat the drive/partition and start again. That way your Notator prog keeps fresh and bug free.
    However, I've noticed some aggro with loading Notator is recent months; in my case Notator tries searching the A drive before completing the loadup, and even when it does load up you get the mouse flying around everywhere, garbage in the track listings, and no data when you try to select a file to load.
    I thought it was all sorts of things; dud ST, dud hard drive, dud prog.
    At this rate I was going to have to give up and use a PC (AAARRGGGGHHHHH )

    Never fear, I won't because I found the reason. I noticed that Notator wouldn't read any timecode from tape via Unitor. This usually means problems with the contacts on Unitor and/or the cartridge port.
    So, unplug both Log 3 and Unitor and give the contacts a brush with isopropyl alcohol on a cotton bud -or two.
    You would be amazed and the crap that came off the contacts!
    Even though I don't move my Atari and Log3/Unitor are hard up into their sockets, dust and grot gets in there somehow.
    Replace bits, fire up and viola -an Atari that is as reliable as ever!

    Again.....

    Best wishes,

    Dave.


    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....


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    Neo-Classical Guitar...
    active member


    Joined: 07/08/01
    Posts: 1729
    Loc: Bradford, West Yorkshire
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #670149 - 21/10/08 09:54 PM
    Let us get one thing straight here David, your ST will be going strong long after you are gone!

    Nice to hear everything is working again for you though! I'm currently awaiting delivery of a few parts from Deal Extreme.com so that I can have both a CompactFlash card and CDROM/writer connected to my main 4160 STe. The main thing I would like next is a decent sized TFT LCD TV so I can view the low, medium and high resolution modes on one screen.

    I've also got a PeST mouse interface on order but in the meantime, I came across an old mouse app from 1995 to enable a serial PC mouse to be connected via the modem port (or three other ports). I poked around and found a serial mouse with the 9 pin DSUB plug, ran the software and hey presto.....it worked! I believe the app only works with GEM based software but it is still handy.


    NCGM

    --------------------
    Footloose and fancy free...gizz a job!


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    David EtheridgeModerator



    Joined: 10/04/02
    Posts: 1014
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: Neo-Classical Guitar Man]
          #670241 - 22/10/08 08:28 AM
    Hi NCGM,
    I tried the Deal Extreme link and it doesn't seem to work.
    Maybe that's why you are still waiting?

    Actually, there's one more update to the dongle contacts.
    The next day after cleaning things up I STILL had problems loading Notator and getting the damn thing to talk to Unitor.
    As ever, a quick call to Barrie fixed things.
    The contacts inside Log 3 that grip the tongue (for want of a better word) of Unitor (you know what I mean anyway ) get tired as well as gunky. get a small 2mm blade screw driver and slide GENTLY behind each contact, pushing them towards the centre. When you've done the lot, the contacts will be almost completely closed. Now fit Unitor, again pushing gently. Contacts restored, put the lot back into the Atari cartridge port, fire up and viola -success once again!


    Dave.


    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....


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    David EtheridgeModerator



    Joined: 10/04/02
    Posts: 1014
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #865159 - 01/10/10 06:35 AM
    Hi folks,
    good news for Notator fans -after some discussion on the Notator mailing list there's now a Facebook page for Notator:
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/C-Lab-Notator/158313807525899?ref=ts

    and a new Forum for Notator users:
    http://www.wmclan.net/notator/

    this should mean that you've got access to hints and tips from fellow Notator users to keep you going through the ensuing years!


    Best wishes,
    Dave.


    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....


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    David EtheridgeModerator



    Joined: 10/04/02
    Posts: 1014
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #886400 - 10/01/11 05:58 PM
    Hi folks,
    I'm just adding the posting I made way back in April 2006 about printers, particularly bearing in mind that us Notator users still prefer Notator over Sibelius -and why not?
    To save you searching back and away through the Atari forum pages, here it is:

    quotes:
    I realised the other day that there's very little info on suitable printers for Ataris, for those of you who actually like printing your scores.
    With this in mind, I've managed to find some notes from the Notator users site. I'll guess that they may also be relevant for Cubase users, although not being a Cubase guy myself, I'm happy to be corrected on this.
    So here are some ideas from Notator users on suitable printers, particularly bearing in mind that most, if not all, the printer files in Notator are for models that are totally obsolete.
    However, some of the models mentioned below do turn up on ebay from time to time at pocket money prices. So have a look and you may be surprised!



    Quotes from the Notator forum begin here:
    "I have used a Roland 9-pin, the HP660C and now the HP
    842C.....I used the 300 series driver for both the HP printers. The 500 series works also.

    To eject the last page, you have to hit the "Resume" button on the printer. I believe all printers would act the same way in Notator, as the printing is controlled from within Notator. I doubt that your 900 series would act any
    differently from the other HPs, although I could be wrong. I am contemplating buying a 900 series soon as I find my 842C uses up too many ink cartridges.....I get less than a ream of paper output from one cartridge - I believe the 900 series does twice as many pages per cartridge.

    I used "Spooler" on the Atari to print out music - from both Notator and Hybrid's "Easy Score Plus"....all the printout from Easy Score came out beautifully.....page after page.

    However, due to the setup in Notator, there was no "skip-to-perf" from the end of one song to another. I believe Notator is set up that way on purpose in
    order that one may add "footings ", change bars per system, etc. You will notice that while printing, the printer only prints one page, then stops. This is to allow the user to make selections - including the page number under "Edit Printer", which one has to change manually. This way also, one can go back and re-do a portion of a page or a section if necessary, then carry on printing from wherever one desires, rather than start from the beginning again.

    My experience in trying to "spool" output from Notator was that the printout of a one arrangement/song/chart would start from where the previous one left off....i.e. if one song ended in the middle of a page, the next one would start
    on that same page. One way around this may be to space to the bottom of the last page in Notator when editing....I never did try it.

    I might add that the HP500 series driver also works, but I have never tried it. I only know this from previous postings to this list from others who used I have achieved VERY interesting (and usually successful) results using the "trial and error" method with the various drivers supplied with Notator. Depending on your patience, needs and eyesight, I have found drivers for everything from orphaned 9-pins, through various jet-style printers to a "mother of invention" laser. (necessity and desperation work a strange sort of magic)

    Sometimes it is even profitable to cross-mix a driver, that is to try a different driver for a printer that you know already works with Notator. This can result in giant staves for difficult orchestra pit situations or mini, mini staves for very compressed views of a large score. My record is 32 staves per 8 1/2 x 11 page. Not bad, if you don't have to read every note quickly. (but very good for conducting)

    By the way, the 32 stave page was achieved with a Panasonic K-series clunker - I forget the driver I used.

    Try stuff. You can't really hurt anything. (...I don't think)"

    end quotes.
    A big thanks to the folks on the Notator group for this info.
    So, there are a few ideas for printers. Has anyone any more to add to this?

    end the full quotes.
    And from 0 feedback to the original posting, it would seem that no-one's got any further info to add.
    Mind you, with hp deskjet 600s on Ebay for 99p......



    Best wishes,
    Dave.


    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....


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    David EtheridgeModerator



    Joined: 10/04/02
    Posts: 1014
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #970388 - 16/02/12 09:32 AM
    Hi folks,
    it's been a while, I know, but things are still humming along in Notator land!
    What we've found over recent years is that there's a fledgling file in Notator that was designed to be developed for later Audio Recording. As we know, once Notator 'transformed' into Logic then the whole thing was souped up for PC/Mac platforms. Still, it's interesting to speculate what form 'Notator Audio' might have taken had it continued - a lot more user friendlt than some audio progs that I came across in the early 90s! (no names to spare the blushes )

    Here's some fun info from Hallvard Tangeraas from the NSL forum:

    "According to this photo (http://www.deepsonic.ch/deep/htm/c-lab.php) there's a hidden "Breakout" game in Notator.
    I've contacted the author but he couldn't remember how he found it, but seemed to remember having pressed two http://www.deepsonic.ch/deep/htm/c-lab.phpkeys at once: "P" for Pause, "B" for Breakout, "G" for Game or something like that.

    Anyone out there with some spare time who could give it a go? From the photo I see it's Notator 3.21 by the way."

    So if anyone cracks it, do let us know the key combination!
    Here's the direct link:
    http://www.deepsonic.ch/deep/htm/c-lab.php

    Page 2 has a bunch of info on other C-lab progs of the time -absorbing stuff!

    Thanks to Hallvard for the info and the NSL list as well!

    Best wishes,
    Dave



    --------------------
    Lots of Ataris which keep on going, 12 Kurzweil 1000 modules, a bunch of hardware synths. Still recording to tape -the old ways are best.....


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    desmond



    Joined: 10/01/06
    Posts: 9168
    Re: Notator tips new [Re: David Etheridge]
          #970390 - 16/02/12 09:42 AM
    Quote David Etheridge:

    What we've found over recent years is that there's a fledgling file in Notator that was designed to be developed for later Audio Recording. As we know, once Notator 'transformed' into Logic then the whole thing was souped up for PC/Mac platforms. Still, it's interesting to speculate what form 'Notator Audio' might have taken had it continued - a lot more user friendlt than some audio progs that I came across in the early 90s! (no names to spare the blushes )




    You didn't know this? I found this (the hard disk recording page) back when Notator was still current (Logic 1.5 had just come out as the first Atari ST version) and we used to discuss it on the Notator/Logic mailing list online.

    (I found it because I always used to like, um, "exploring" the resource files of programs...

    Clearly they never got it to work reliably on the Atari ST but it's something they were playing with.

    Quote David Etheridge:

    According to this photo (http://www.deepsonic.ch/deep/htm/c-lab.php) there's a hidden "Breakout" game in Notator.




    This rings a vague bell, but those memories are kinda foggy these days... ( ! )


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