Quote:
"As of May 19, 2006, Elemental Audio products are no longer available for purchase. All Elemental Audio products are now exclusively licensed and distributed by Roger Nichols Digital, Inc.,"

Which seems to translate to:

Same plugins, but awful new names!
Same plugins, but new inflated prices!
Same plugins, but now iLok'ed!

End of an era?



Links:
Announcement on Elemental Audio website
Roger Nichols Digital

Chris - I've added some links to your post (as it's the first in the discussion) to give readers of this thread some quick reference.

Edited by James Lehmann (21/05/06 06:08 AM)

You're right those are horrible names.

Still Finis was the only one I was missing.

C

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Dual 2Ghz G5 2.5GB RAM, Logic Pro 7.2, Logic Control, MOTU 828mkII Drumkit from Hell C&V and Superior, EW QLSO Gold, Zebra and Cameleon, Melodyne Uno, Atmosphere, Max/MSP

The prices have gone from $169 for the Firium/Eqium bundle to, get this, $698 for the pair. I’ve heard of people taking the piss but that is beyond words!



I’ve updated my review in the user reviews section:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=300037&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1#Post300037

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Studio: www.kymatasound.com

This Roger Nichols fellow seems a bit of a [ ****** ].

This is very bad news.

Oh, well. I was going to buy some. As you say, taking the piss.

OMG! I'm sticking with my original, vintage, Elemental Audio versions...

The contrast between EA's old graphics / names / 'feel' and the newimproved Roger Nichols approach, couldn't be greater. That's to say, class vs. crass. And unless he's planning some extraordinary updates, I wouldn't be surprised if he has trouble shifting the plugs at the prices he's set. Finis/Equium et al are good, but at $349 a pop, they're now competing with some very desirable (well, for a plug in...) competitors. At their previous prices, it was a no-brainer. Now?.....

And what's happened to the Inspector XL bundle? That was one of the best things EA made, and it seems to have disappeared.

As someone else said, end of an era.

According to his forum, the Bitchin-izer, the Level-izer and the Wendel-izer are in development and coming next.

I kid you not with the names.

I guess Bitchinizer = Finis, Levelizer = InspectorXL and Wendel-izer is some kinda sample replacer...

Is that the same Roger Nichols who writes that column I never read in SOS?

The very one.

Edit: looks like the last three plugins are not former EA ones, but his own creations:

http://www.rndigital.com/Bitchin.html
http://www.rndigital.com/Level.html
http://www.rndigital.com/Wendel.html

"This control incorporates the scientific application of magic."

Er.. nice...

Edited by desmond (20/05/06 09:57 PM)

Quote:

---

Is that the same Roger Nichols who writes that column I never read in SOS?

---

The very same!
.

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Web Site | Twitter | iTunes

Oh My God! That is a Masive massive massive Shock, I loved that company - jeez I am gonna have to find a new one.

Not a Chance in hell am I gonna pay for plugs that look so sh*te and cost twice as much! are you kidding - I actually cannot beleive that, whoa what a bummer. I am still in shock, what a Tw*t that guy is.

I am so Angry.

C**p, S**t, B****r, B******s, I was days away from buying the full max bundle, they looked like the best plugins on the market in terms of how they sounded and what they did, wish I could still find a way I could get hold of copies of them, anyone got any ideas?

Stu

*cough* ITS ILLEGAL AND WE DONT TOLERATE IT! *cough*
















Not that i would.

Edited by Max The Mac (20/05/06 11:37 PM)

Quote Disco Stu:

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C**p, S**t, B****r, B******s, I was days away from buying the full max bundle, they looked like the best plugins on the market in terms of how they sounded and what they did, wish I could still find a way I could get hold of copies of them, anyone got any ideas?

Stu

---

yes.

BUY THEM

Cracks are utterly illegal, and we have a complete zero tolerance policy on this forum/.

and it's NOT up for debate either.

I have to add, that I utterly utterly agree that this is IMHO a complete disaster


I have all the Elemental plug ins, which i bought and paid for quite happily....

However, there's no way on gods green earth i'd pay the new prices for them.

BUT


anyone who's kept an eye on such things will have seen various illegal versions floating about , so it's possible , indeed quite likely, , probable even, that this state of affairs is a direct result of people using cracked versions instead of buying them!
if Roger Nichols can afford to buy them outright, then it leads one to suspect their turnover and cashflow might have been terminally in short supply.

So , it's probably very much a "ye shall reap what you sow.." situation.


why do you think SOS in print and forums are SO anti theft of intellectual property ?? all of them, music , samples and software, require funds to develop and support.....

developers don't have some magic money tree in the back garden either....

so, just like anyone else, if no one pays them, they go bust , or get bought out....... or both.

Max

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

Here is what I think:

1) I understand how you guys feel about this, I too first was very disappointed,
mainly because of the price inflation... But then I read the word "Partner" ! So it means that the engineers behind EA are still alive and are going to keep going at it... That is at least a good news.

2) In all honesty, I always felt a bit sorry for EA, because their stuff was cheap and not very popular, I mean they don't always get mentioned as top plugs in forums, but they are very good quality plugins and the staff at EA are really nice, I always though that they deserve much more attention. I did email them
before and payed my respect to them. Inspector was the very first free Spectrum Analyzer plugin, they ported it on every platform still free...

3) Now it is time for AE to get more attention and recognition, they well deserve it. So, what might have happened? some guys like Mr Roger thought that these plugs were really good and that the company EA could do with some help, so that is what is happening today. I don't know what deal they come up with though, I personally don't mind.

4) The best part is that Roger is popular and got some contacts and has got plans, meaning that the EA plugs that we all love are going to get better than they already are, newer + improved stuff, then Roger forces the iLok, we hate it but let's face it, it is good for the company because No piracy, no crack, if you see what I mean? EA stuff have been "patched" already and that is no good for the company, it means loss of earnings - end of business, period.
So, then people expect to see more plugs, updates and so on... but these guys need to eat as well you know. Today, using a crack plugin is the equivalent of stilling a car 20 years ago. Stilling a car is something physical, and big, ok, a plugin is a software that you cannot physically touch, ok, what is the relation then? Well, to me using cracks is like stilling the hard work of developers and engineers, months or year of hard work of their life...

5) We should be happy for EA, they deserve to break thru, they will grow and we will all benefit from it. I am not rich myself, and if i cannot afford the next
EA/Roger plugs, it doesn't matter... it is life, you can't always have the cake and eat it. These are my personnel comments and I don't mean to piss anyone of you off, in these world and life, money as always been a problem, take the price away and think of the benefit. EA have been quiet for a while, they are not loud people, and they will probably benefit from Mr Rogers' help,
we will see...

Ok, it was a long post, but i felt like saying that, because I too, first was quite pissed off, human thing you know, but second though took over quickly.
Ask yourself, why would EA do that? They surely don't want to disappoint us,
but they probably need help. That's it.

www.topfloormix.com

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-- Fingering the G_string. I play (B)ass Fu(n)k & MIX for the *STARS* http://www.ssradiouk.com/

Just read his entry in Wikipedia

I can think of a much more concise entry.

Dick.

Quote Max The Mac:

---

yes.

BUY THEM

Cracks are utterly illegal, and we have a complete zero tolerance policy on this forum/.

and it's NOT up for debate either.

I have to add, that I utterly utterly agree that this is IMHO a complete disaster


I have all the Elemental plug ins, which i bought and paid for quite happily....

However, there's no way on gods green earth i'd pay the new prices for them.

BUT


anyone who's kept an eye on such things will have seen various illegal versions floating about , so it's possible , indeed quite likely, , probable even, that this state of affairs is a direct result of people using cracked versions instead of buying them!
if Roger Nichols can afford to buy them outright, then it leads one to suspect their turnover and cashflow might have been terminally in short supply.

So , it's probably very much a "ye shall reap what you sow.." situation.


why do you think SOS in print and forums are SO anti theft of intellectual property ?? all of them, music , samples and software, require funds to develop and support.....

developers don't have some magic money tree in the back garden either....

so, just like anyone else, if no one pays them, they go bust , or get bought out....... or both.

Max

---

Indeed and im not trying to get my hands on them for free, I just can no longer afford to pay the new vastly increased price that roger is offering them for, if id have been able to get the cash 2 days earlier id have them now and wouldnt be complaining. They are plug ins which are too good to pass up easily.

Ok lets take another tack, does anyone know if anything very similar exists from another manufacturer, the plugins I was really interested in are the Unlimited band factor of Eqium coupled with its ease of use, and the quality of the Finis limiter, anyone found good comparable alternatives of a similar price?

Stu

Roger Nichols calls in at the Elemental Audio offices:
“Hi, just in case you didn’t know, I’m Roger Nichols!, seven times Grammy winner and I have a cool plan to make us both richer!!

Let’s put my name on your plug-ins then we can charge like four times the price, cool eh? Hey, better yet, let’s round it up to a cool sounding $698. Split 50/50 you get just over twice as much as you were getting. How cool is that!”


Piracy may have had an effect on events but I guarantee that hiking the price up to just over FOUR TIMES the previous price will have an even bigger effect on sales.

This ludicrously greedy price hike is a sign to other companies that this sort of thing is acceptable; it most certainly is not! I’m 100% sure the majority will be voting with their wallets.

As far as I’m concerned, all the original plug-ins work just fine thank-you-very-much. There is nothing Roger Nichols can do to improve them; he’s already shown he is capable of degrading their looks by plastering them with those silly brushed aluminium effect fronts and this whole EA ‘merger’ is an unmitigated public relations disaster.


Sorry, I previously forgot: thank you Chris Carter for bringing this to our attention.

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Studio: www.kymatasound.com

For me, EA had a USP (unique selling point) that was made up of three things:

Quality, price and non-restrictive copy protection.

The last two points have been destroyed; in my book they no longer have a valid USP.

Destroy a company’s USP and you destroy the company.




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Studio: www.kymatasound.com

This news just ruined my weekend - I'm gutted!

I own the whole Elemental Audio suite and have invested a lot of time over the past year learning how to mix and master comfortably and quickly with these wonderful tools. I love Elemental Audio for all the reasons Tim gives above. In fact I've spent the last year weaning myself off Waves-addiction and remixing a lot of stuff with EA plug-ins, a company that I thought had products that were as good if not better than Waves at a more reasonable price and with no invasive CP.

I suppose I can continue using them unsupported until they break and no longer work with some future system upgrade - for example I dunno if they're gonna work with the Intel Macs.

Eqium had become my 'go-to' EQ with its clear interface and transparent sound and I found Finis an excellent limiter - these are the two I shall miss the most.

Alternatively I'll have to spend another year moving off EA plug-ins to another company, and relearning all their plug-ins. sigh...

I also now feel a little guilty for all the people that I've been enthusiastically talking these plug-ins up to over the last year or so - my apologies folks, I had no idea it would end like this!

Quote blueintheface:

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Just read his entry in Wikipedia

I can think of a much more concise entry.

Dick.

---

"Roger is also an airplane pilot, and was close friends and flying buddies with singer/songwriter John Denver. He helped John pick out the new airplane in which he later died."

I hope that's not an omen for the long-term future of Finis, say....

Oh well, good while it lasted. I won't be buying any more of this stuff at the new prices, or anything like. Universal Audio continue to invest wisely and sensibly in the UAD range... there's other stuff out there which is quite usable!

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...

Quote James Lehmann:

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I suppose I can continue using them unsupported until they break and no longer work with some future system upgrade - for example I dunno if they're gonna work with the Intel Macs.

Eqium had become my 'go-to' EQ with its clear interface and transparent sound and I found Finis an excellent limiter - these are the two I shall miss the most.

Alternatively I'll have to spend another year moving off EA plug-ins to another company, and relearning all their plug-ins. sigh...

I also now feel a little guilty for all the people that I've been enthusiastically talking these plug-ins up to over the last year or so - my apologies folks, I had no idea it would end like this!

---

My Exact sentiments - What to do and where to move next.... Eqium is my staple basic EQ I put it on just about everything, and Firium I use for mastering. I am not going to sell my G5 Dual when I buy a new more powerful macintel so I will use it to master on.

I am now keeping a keen eye on a a good All round eq, (Focusrite Liquid Mix?).

I think the shock and dissapointment is because they were so 'inexpensive' and excellent - and the company was accessible and responsive. They may now have been brought up to date and more in-line with 'real world' prices but it is a brutal and insensitive transition, it has been done so unexpectedly and with no 'grace' or consideration to it's existing customers.

This indicates a significant change of management style and one that I am uncomfortable with.

If Mr Roger Tickles and his 'Bitchin' company do not offer a reasonable and sensibly priced 'transition' to Universal Binary then it is truly goodbye from this customer.

Never has: 'From the sublime to the ridiculous' seemed so apt.

Quote Topfloormix:

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Today, using a crack plugin is the equivalent of stilling a car 20 years ago. Stilling a car is something physical, and big, ok, a plugin is a software that you cannot physically touch, ok, what is the relation then? Well, to me using cracks is like stilling the hard work of developers and engineers, months or year of hard work of their life...

---

I think using cracked software is like employing a musician to do several gigs then refusing to pay her/him and justifying it by saying "it doesn't cost you anything to do gigs, just time, so what's the problem? Afterall I didn't steal anything from you".
I'm sure what Roger Nichols writes is accurate otherwise SOS wouldn't publish his articles but after the first one I just accept the fact we live in different universes so they just don't convince me. I remember when George Duke wrote for Keyboard magazine in the 80s. That great keyboard player wrote utter tosh for the magazine and his articles stopped soon afterwards, lets hope that is an omen for SOS.

Bring back Big George, I'm on his wavelength.

As someone over on Roger’s own forum has posted, for the extortionate price he’s now changing for these plug-ins, you can get some pretty decent hardware…

Hmmmm, at least hardware doesn’t stop working when you update your OS or change sequencer versions… maybe a rethink is in order.
Roger's own forum

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Studio: www.kymatasound.com

Quote Tim Rainey:

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As someone over on Roger’s own forum has posted, for the extortionate price he’s now changing for these plug-ins, you can get some pretty decent hardware…

Hmmmm, at least hardware doesn’t stop working when you update your OS or change sequencer versions… maybe a rethink is in order.
Roger's own forum

---

Interesting comment, I was just thinking this morning that with the Waves authorisation change and some of my plug-ins no longer working in the latest versions of Logic, when I decide to buy a limiter, which will be soon, I am going to get a hardware one.
I think software is alright in two situations :

1. Its your main way of working, in my case Logic, so I keep up to date and accept I will have to buy upgrades (rather like maintainence on a reel to reel).

2. You accept it may only work for a few years so you in fact rent it. E.g. a software compressor costs £249.00, will last on your current system for about 18 months, so you look upon the retail price as renting it at £13.84 per month.

Whereas I think major record labels have largely created their own hell with overpriced CDs, and not responding to markets either quick enough or not at all, software companies are innocent victims of what is now considered acceptable theft.

Thank God I took advantage of their offer a few weeks back to pick up any software I didn't already have at an even cheaper price... I really love their stuff and the reason for this is plainly obvious....

STOP USING CRACKS, everyone, or all our favourite software will go the same way, as is an awful lot of good music. To me, there's no argument- if people don't pay for either music or software, the industry's f****d.

PAY FOR MUSIC YOU RESPECT, AND PAY FOR SOFTWARE YOU RESPECT.

I'm totally fed up with people, even musos, asking me to 'make a copy' of something they've just heard round my house that they like. When I remind them that maybe the musician concerned might need to get PAID for his work, simply to ensure there might be some more music from that source, they get all shitty and start moaning that it's too much trouble.

At which point I throw them out of the house for being the ********* they really are- willing to appreciate other people's creativity but too lazy and mean to go out and PAY for it.

GRRRRRRRRRR!

Sorry for the shouting, but I'm well pissed off this morning.



tomafd


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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Quote noiseconjecture:

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Quote Tim Rainey:

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As someone over on Roger’s own forum has posted, for the extortionate price he’s now changing for these plug-ins, you can get some pretty decent hardware…

---

Very true statement. Some people will always want to use hardware - me included. I get p***ed off enough every time apple try and squeeze our balls for minor upgrades to Logic, so I don't know how I'd feel if I owned a load of plugins that needed upgrading every 6 months or whatever. My system feels better without a load of plugins in there anyway, but that's way off topic (sorry).

I'm on the lookout for a decent hardware EQ. As for a good hardware limiter (someone asked) I bought one from this chap and can't rate it highly enough:

http://www.davelectronics.com/

As for iLok's - I simply won't use them. It seems that all these contributing factors in the EA - Mr Roger takeover are a case of lifting a rock, only to drop it on their own feet.

Quote tomafd:

---

I'm totally fed up with people, even musos, asking me to 'make a copy' of something they've just heard round my house that they like. When I remind them that maybe the musician concerned might need to get PAID for his work, simply to ensure there might be some more music from that source, they get all shitty and start moaning that it's too much trouble.

At which point I throw them out of the house for being the ********* they really are- willing to appreciate other people's creativity but too lazy and mean to go out and PAY for it.:

---

Exactly, I took a new Cd by a little known electronica duo to a friend who runs a recording studio. He listened to a few tracks, turned and looked at me and said "Very nice, copy please". I explained that they were a small group on their own label and I don't do illegal copies.
Can you believe he has just started his own production company and is trying to release his own records?

I blame Thatcher for a lot of it, she was the doyen of short-termism. Her entire policies were based on it.

Quote Breelo:

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Quote noiseconjecture:

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Quote Tim Rainey:

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I'm on the lookout for a decent hardware EQ. As for a good hardware limiter (someone asked) I bought one from this chap and can't rate it highly enough:

http://www.davelectronics.com/

---

Sorry for taking this off topic; Breelo (or is it Noiseconjecture? - not too clear with the quotes) - what is the DAV limiter like? Transparent or 'characterful' What kind of material you using it on? I've been trying to find out info on this for ages, wondering whether to get a playmate for my BG1..... PM me if you like.

Right, back on topic....

Roger Nichols - you tosser!

Reid,

I'll drop you a PM.

I spend alot of time on an Irish clubbing forum and the guys on there simply don't understand the consequences of using file sharing and cracked software, I think the dance music people are definately the worst culprits in general.

It's hard not to spend all you're time badgering people, but I'm 100% certain I'd be making alot more money if it wasn't for people sharing MP3s and CDs.

I don't understand why heavier punishments aren't implimented to narrow down the benifit to risk ratio.

It's depressing for me to realise at this stage in my career, that unless I become highly successful within my field that I'll never be able to support myself writing music.

--------------------
http://shaundrk.bebo.com
www.myspace.com/shaundark

Quote Shaun Dark:

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I spend alot of time on an Irish clubbing forum and the guys on there simply don't understand the consequences of using file sharing and cracked software, I think the dance music people are definately the worst culprits in general.

It's hard not to spend all you're time badgering people, but I'm 100% certain I'd be making alot more money if it wasn't for people sharing MP3s and CDs.

I don't understand why heavier punishments aren't implimented to narrow down the benifit to risk ratio.

It's depressing for me to realise at this stage in my career, that unless I become highly successful within my field that I'll never be able to support myself writing music.

---

I don't think piracy is the main problem of failure.

I mean how many non linear phase EQ's can one have?Aren't they all the same,virtually?
I've only heard of these plugs a few months ago so how do I know thy exist within a large market?Funnily some companies forced their products to be cracked to be SEEN,then developed on demand.Piracy is wrong and unfair but as a DJ I bet you play tracks that have samples that have been filtered etc beyond recognition.

Again look at this Gnarls Barkley track.Sold on itunes before it hit the shops then became number1 and is still there.So I think there is method to beat this piracy into fairness.Won't go into economics and politics of it.

When Apple took over Emagic and stopped support for the PC version of Logic there were hundreds (if not thousands) of irate posts all over the web. The majority decried Apple’s tactics but there were still quite a few who said it would be a good thing.

Once again, all over the web, people are posting about this EA/RND event. This time it’s interesting to note the difference: there are virtually NO dissenters at all...

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Studio: www.kymatasound.com

Quote Music Manic:

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Piracy is wrong and unfair but as a DJ I bet you play tracks that have samples that have been filtered etc beyond recognition.

Again look at this Gnarls Barkley track.Sold on itunes before it hit the shops then became number1 and is still there.So I think there is method to beat this piracy into fairness.Won't go into economics and politics of it.

---

The very occasional sample I do use has been purchased in the form of a CD, the original artist/producer gets paid.

Also comparing a track in a narrow genre like say, tech trance, to that Gnarls Barkely track is a no brainer.

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http://shaundrk.bebo.com
www.myspace.com/shaundark

Quote Music Manic:

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I don't think piracy is the main problem of failure.

I mean how many non linear phase EQ's can one have?Aren't they all the same,virtually?
I've only heard of these plugs a few months ago so how do I know thy exist within a large market?

---

where have you been?? mars??

seriously, whenever someone asks about good EQ plugs, or is looking for a surgically useful "performance rescue device" dynamically, Elemental audio have always been recommended by the majority of the Mac forum users, , certainly i mention them every time some one asks "what's good?" or "|must have"

the Logic user group had a huge response to their group buy a couple of years ago......

look at the number of people lamenting their passing..... as it were...

I'm unlikely to buy anything called a "Bitchinizer"

the changes made are , frankly tacky and appallingly crass, it seems Mr Nichols has about as much taste as coach load of footie fans mooning a funeral cortege.

Max

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if you don't know who i am, i aint gonna tell you.

I'll agree with Music Manic on one thing; most software companies are absolutely crap at marketing their products, be they good or bad.

Word of mouth just don't cut it

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http://shaundrk.bebo.com
www.myspace.com/shaundark

In the very first Mr. Nichols "bitch fest" thread, I told you that he as a... er... reputation of sorts. Seems that he has lived up to that reputation.

--------------------
James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Quote Shaun Dark:

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Quote Music Manic:

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Piracy is wrong and unfair but as a DJ I bet you play tracks that have samples that have been filtered etc beyond recognition.

Again look at this Gnarls Barkley track.Sold on itunes before it hit the shops then became number1 and is still there.So I think there is method to beat this piracy into fairness.Won't go into economics and politics of it.

---

The very occasional sample I do use has been purchased in the form of a CD, the original artist/producer gets paid.

Also comparing a track in a narrow genre like say, tech trance, to that Gnarls Barkely track is a no brainer.

---

OK what success have you had?
Lots of tracks use samples because companies want their material to be used again.They want to be "ripped off" because when the track is successful the artist ain't gonna have a chance.
Software is different ,but still,if they become well known a big company will take them over.

With the Gnarls track I was talking about a marketing strategy not a genre.plus how much money does Trance etc make compared to mainstream?

I Must learn to talk non-laterally on these sites.