But that's an "and", not an "or". You need both!

And even I'm impressed with anyone who's stuck out Music Theory to Grade 8 when you could have so much fun playing an instrument instead!

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...

I can confirm it's an "or" Steve

However in terms of qualifications they put as much or more stock in Maths & Physics A levels and a good peformance in the interview, audition and written exam, which interestingly is similar to the AS music tech paper 3 exam, analysing extracts of music from both musical and technological angles

--------------------
musics

Quote bonafide:

---

I can confirm it's an "or" Steve

---

Oh dear, then the statement "Music Technology A-level and Music Theory Grade 8 - are acceptable as a direct replacement for A-level Music, and we can make offers subject to results in the two of these" is both illterate and/or a lie.

Good job they teach music not English. But it must be an "extra" test for the literate to decipher their FAQs.

Long live further education!

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...

Given their ability to cherry-pick candidates, Steve - it's not as if they're struggling for applicants! - I suspect that what's written in the FAQa will have little bearing on who gets in.

And fair play to them - they're in the position of being able to take only the very best, and, really, how they judge that is a matter for them. I mean, they must be getting it mostly right.

--------------------
[url=http://www.facebook.com/pages/hifi-studios/117322741632389[/url]

Oops - guilty of not reading the post properly!

I was referring to music or music tech A level; not really sure about the question of grade 8 theory, from what I know it is not required:

I'm making the point based on the experience of a recent student of mine, whose admission was based on results already achieved in completed maths, physics and music tech A levels, plus an interview audition and written paper in which they wanted to test the musical & music production skills.

He was told that performing on an instrument was expected to be at grade 7 level; he hasn't done any grades, so had to audition. The interview was around his personal interests in music, and he had to show analysis and understanding of music and technology elements - this was also tested in the written paper he sat.

I hope this makes it a bit clearer. I expect that while the entrance requirements are written to show the expected standard achieved and ability level, like most courses they will consider students who don't quite check all the boxes but are close and show potential.

On the issue of the music tech A level, the debate has been very interesting to read here. As someone with a foot in both camps, i.e. pro work and education, I feel there are substantial strenghts and weaknesses to the A level music tech course.

AS many people have said, it cannot be seen as a stepping stone direct into a top job in pro music production. Just take the content of the course for the AS component (first year); students have 26 weeks (4 or 4 1/2 hours each week) to learn all about recording, sequencing and general principles of music production; produce four pieces of coursework using those techniques; produce a full score and parts for one of those pieces using a computer program; study the entire history of popular and jazz music, including the development of instrument and recording technology, musical conventions and historical/social context, and be able to apply that learning to practical projects and analysis questions based on recorded music in a written paper; if that wasn't enough, they have to complete another written paper on a piece from the Classical tradition that they have either sequenced or recorded.

A demending course by anyone's standards, which is good because it reflects the demanding standards and work required by the industry, but which is bad because it is near impossible to teach recording or sequencing in the detail it deserves in such a time scale. The better students will of course spend plenty of time out of class experimenting and putting techiques into practice - I'm sure most people on this board would recognise this as being an approach that is the minimum necessary to start taking the first steps on a career in music production.

To me that is the real advantage of the course; students can have the opportunity to spend time with the technology (outside of class) developing their skills, hopefully with support from techers who can encourage them and answer the qusetions they want to know - though this is not always the case.

This is certainly something that was not available when I was in school, and I think it is to be welcomed for the students that want to take real advantage of the opportunity.

The range of skills needed to complete course like this is probably wider than any other A level; management of extended projects that require musical sensitivity and command of fairly sophisticated technology; the need to identify weaknesses and methods to improve them; understanding of history and development from a number of different perpectives. In that respect it is a worthwhile course for any student, regardless of whether they intend to follow a career in anything to do with music.

The downside however, is seeing some students who go to a degree course, perhaps similar to those mentioned by the Byre, and after completing 2 years of the course start thinking about their next move and decide they want to become a music technology teacher. One of the strenghts of music tech A level is the vast number of people with pro experience who are involved in teaching and examining the subject, and the commitment of musicians/teachers with 'traditional' training who are willing to spend the time developing their skills in the area. I think it is true of all areas of music that most teachers are also practitioners; not something that can be said of many other school subjects.

Quote hifistud2:

---

Beg to differ - I've had a student this year apply for the course, and he was not told that - quite the opposite. - from the Tonmeister FAQ:

Quote:

---

Music Technology A-level and Music Theory Grade 8 - are acceptable as a direct replacement for A-level Music, and we can make offers subject to results in the two of these.

---

---

I stand corrected.

Wasn't like that in my day (2004), grumble grumble, kids of today etc etc, where's my slippers...

--------------------
Tesco Value Tonmeister

Hi,

I feel that we should not be knocking the Music Technology A Level. The obvious benefits of having more students studying it, is that it strengthens elements of the industry. Im sure there are some A Level students who buy Sound on Sound and invest in buying hardware and software. Or start recording and mixing projects and then need the help of a pro down the road in a studio to help them out. Also schools have invested alot of there money in local Digital Villages etc...it is only common sense that this could all help the Music Technology world that we live in.

Cheers

DAvid Ashman

I'm not going to flog the horse till it's dead, I'm just pointing out that if they mean "or" they should not say "and" (Computing 101!), so they are illiterate.

They may well teach music well, but their own pre-publicity could do more to fill one with confidence.

Of course their FAQ could mean what it says.

In which case you need both. Which would not surprise me at all knowing a few people who have been involved with this course. And I'd kind of like to trust the tutors with some basic command of literacy. So unless you can show me categorically they mean "or" not "and", I'm going to take their statements at face value.

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...

The way i see it is that if you only have music tech instead of music a2 then you need to be able to prove that you are up to studying music at a degree level - somewhere between a third and a half of modules are straight from the music course.

Theory grade 8 is a good way of showing this, although it is up to the admissions people and if they feel you are suitable despite not having grade 8 theory they may well offer you a place!

Therefore they do mean 'and', but the rules may be bent in special circumstances.

--------------------
Myspace | All Things Considered - album out now!

Quote hughb:

---

Quote hifistud2:

---

Beg to differ - I've had a student this year apply for the course, and he was not told that - quite the opposite. - from the Tonmeister FAQ:

Quote:

---

Music Technology A-level and Music Theory Grade 8 - are acceptable as a direct replacement for A-level Music, and we can make offers subject to results in the two of these.

---

---

I stand corrected.

Wasn't like that in my day (2004), grumble grumble, kids of today etc etc, where's my slippers...

---

I beg to differ as well - I did Music Tech, Maths, Physics and German A levels (and got ABBA grades, in that order) and I was allowed in. I think it's really more to do with the entrance exams and audition, so they can meet you and find out what you're really like. And I got a first at the end of it too. Not that that alone would have got me a job - that's what the placement year was for.

P.S. I don't have grade 8 theory either. I thought about doing it and realised that for what I wanted to do there was no point. I just had Grade5 theory (distinction), Grade 6 Sax (pass), Grade 8 Piano (merit). None of that complicated theory nonsense

--------------------
Yes, good, very good, but everything LOUDER!

Edited by Spord (17/07/06 12:18 PM)

Quote Spord:

---

Quote hughb:

---

Quote hifistud2:

---

Beg to differ - I've had a student this year apply for the course, and he was not told that - quite the opposite. - from the Tonmeister FAQ:

Quote:

---

Music Technology A-level and Music Theory Grade 8 - are acceptable as a direct replacement for A-level Music, and we can make offers subject to results in the two of these.

---

---

I stand corrected.

Wasn't like that in my day (2004), grumble grumble, kids of today etc etc, where's my slippers...

---

I beg to differ as well - I did Music Tech, Maths, Physics and German A levels (and got ABBA grades, in that order) and I was allowed in. I think it's really more to do with the entrance exams and audition, so they can meet you and find out what you're really like. And I got a first at the end of it too. Not that that alone would have got me a job - that's what the placement year was for.

---

I expect that's very very true - the interview is certainly what they mainly go on - I did know a few people who had music tech who were told to go away, do music, and then re-apply though.

Congratulations on the first! I'm on my placement at the moment, so I've still got all the joys of final year to come!

--------------------
Tesco Value Tonmeister

Good old A-Level music tech...

Looked at doing that a few years ago, but from what I could see its really just the Music course, with some midi stuff added on.

Well worth doing if you want to know every single midi controller code, but as generalised music tech course it wasn't very impressive. No real opportunities to really look at the subject, and you would really expect some reference to the history, and progression of music tech from say the 1920's.

Crazy that some people do Music A-level and Music-Tech A-Level.

-

Music Tech is schools is a market which is really untapped at the moment, I'd imagine there's a huge percentage of schools with gear and software which they don't really know how to use, etc.

Excuss the Pronk. LG

--------------------
P.I.G.L.E.T - where is polly?

Quote PGWLE + Polly the Parrot:

---

Good old A-Level music tech...

Looked at doing that a few years ago, but from what I could see its really just the Music course, with some midi stuff added on.

---

Nothing like that now - the spec was changed radically in 2000.

--------------------
[url=http://www.facebook.com/pages/hifi-studios/117322741632389[/url]

Quote hughb:

---

I'm on my placement at the moment, so I've still got all the joys of final year to come!

---

Good luck! I still have nightmares sometimes about the technical project!

--------------------
Yes, good, very good, but everything LOUDER!

AS GCE in Music Technology (8511) : Notice

Statement from Jerry Jarvis, MD, Edexcel (21/07/2006)

"Following constructive meetings with our external senior examination team and QCA over the past week we are confident that we can now put forward innovative and creative specifications for new qualifications in Music and Music Technology to inspire students and their teachers.

Edexcel will put forward a four unit music technology specification AS and A level and six unit specification for Music for re-accreditation in 2007, for first teaching from September 2008."

Statement from the Chair of Music Technology and the senior examining team:
"We are delighted to be able to report that following a meeting of the senior examining team for music technology and representatives from Edexcel on Thursday 20th July, we have secured the commitment of Edexcel to seek accreditation for a new, exciting music technology specification which is rigorous, innovative and builds upon the best aspects of the current qualification.

We look forward to being part of the ongoing development and implementation of this new qualification, and assure our colleagues in centres of our continued support and commitment to AS and A2 Music Technology."

--------------------
www.audiodynamite.co.uk www.facebook.com/audiodynamite

Thanks for that Munkey.

Very interesting news for the last day of term.