Quote Costleys:

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Has anybody used this material as a replacement for plasterboard or had any experience of it?

www.fermacell.co.uk/

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I have planned to use just this material in my floor, on top of a few other layers, as base for final, hardwood flooring. It's supposed to have more mass as well as more stifness than plasterboard. As I said: still have to start works, can't comment on it yet, but I did choose it after carefully comparing specs v/s plasterboard.

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Ever met a musically inclined accountant?

Hi Paul,

I can't say I agree with everything you say in your post.

The first point is about exotic soundproofing materials like vinyl mats. If you've ever tried to lift one of those mats you realise how extremely dense and heavy they are (usually 5kg/m2), much more so than plasterboard. Yes you probably could get the same soundproofing with 2 or 3 layers of 12.5mm plasterboard as with one vinyl mat but that would be 25mm thickness as opposed to 5mm. That's might be a really important consideration for some. Two or three sheets of plasterboard probably will not work out much less in terms of cost than one sheet of the vinyl anyway. The vinyl mats are around £5-6/m2 so two or three sheets of plasterboard, even at £2/m2 (which is a good price) ain't that much cheaper. I'd rather go down the exotic route and pay the same or a little extra to have the thinner wall.

To be fair I've found with the specialist suppliers that they are prepared to price match if you can show them, for instance, the acoustic sealant price on screwfix or the RS60 price from other suppliers.

The second assumption I would question is that it can all be done with rockwool, timber and plasterboard. For real bass absorption (i.e. if you don't want to hear your drums on the other side of the wall) you will need to go down the isolation / resilient bars route. Try asking a builders merchant for resilient bars.

Apart from that I found some good food for thought in your post and I would be interested to know what it is about studiospares that should be avoided - is it their acoustic treatment materials (which seem a bargain compared to auralex) ?

Quote:

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For real bass absorption (i.e. if you don't want to hear your drums on the other side of the wall)

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I'm afraid that is NOT what is meant by creating bass/broadband absorbers. These types of absorbers are meant to absorb sound so that decay times and levels are even and low (i.e. no modal ring, etc.). They are NOT intended as sound isolation. Acoustic treatment DOES NOT mean sound isolation.

P-X

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My Home Studio Build Thread

studiospares being avoided?

Their acoustic treatment is actually more absorbent that the auralex equivalent, being more dense and thicker (i.e the 50mm stuff starts at about minimum thickness 25 mm and raises to over the 50mm/ 50mm is the average, auralex peak at 50 and go down to about 5mm) They are also miles cheaper and at 50 x 50cm they are easier to arrange on the walls.

their rock wool is not over retail at 35 quid for 8 slabs of rw3, and has came down in price over the past year or so, remember the stuff from wickes etc.. is a lot less dense.

their own brand sheetblock works out a whole load cheaper too.

I've found over the years the studio spares guys to be really helpful and if your getting a load of stuff from them you a get a bulk buy discount.

Quote Wurlitzer:

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Can anyone suggest a good place in or near London to buy thick, dense concrete blocks? I'm looking for the 190mm thick, maximum density ones. Wickes and Jewsons only seem to sell the standard 100mm thick ones for cavity walls.

I found some wholesalers on the net that have the full range but they only seem to sell to building suppliers. So someone somewhere must have these blocks to sell to the public!

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Look up j p morans, they are in willesden & kilburn and will deliver, usually very well priced.

also travis perkins i would avoid like the plague, Bulders depot is very cheap too (in cricklewood), same bloke that created castles and then sold out to travis perkins.

I used to do Loft conversions in and around london and these were some of the cheapest places that we sourced materials, That was 2 years ago though.screwfix for a lot of other stuff like screws nails, and cheap tools the ebaurer screw guns seems to last longer that the dewalt ones we had.

Yes I'm fully aware - as are most people on this thread - that acoustic treatment is not the same as sound absorbtion.

Isolation or 'resilient' bars are there so that structural vibration caused by low frequences do not travel from the inside wall to the outside wall. This means that low frequency sounds like a kick drum are better soundproofed.

G'day everyone,

I've been trying to find a source for Rockwool slab in Australia and finally had some success, so I thought I'd share it just in case there are other Aussies interested.

FM Insulation in Sydney have a good range, and the boss there Mike Flavell is very helpful.

In Perth (where I am), Australian Insulation Supplies in Jandakot is the place. Their boss Ian Swann is also very helpful.

Mike Flavell said it also should be available from CSR Bradford in all capital cities, but they have been too busy so far to respond to my enquiries.

Anyway, I've been down to AIS and picked up two packs of 100kg/m3 at $90 each. Packs are 1200x600mm and contain 6 slabs of 50mm or 12 slabs of 25mm.

Now all I have to do is brush up on my pathetic woodworking skills

Cheers,
Marty.

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Bampot Studio,
Bassendean, WA.

Edited by Marty Bampot (09/08/06 07:59 AM)

G'day everyone,

I made that last post a few hours too early. I have now had a reply from CSR Bradford. They have rockwool slab available in 60, 80 & 100 kg/m3 densities and 25mm & 50mm thicknesses, but their sizings are 1500x1200 which may be more useful in some instances. They tell me that theirs is the only Australian-made rockwool. The price per sq.m area is comparable to the other companies 1200x600 slab.

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Bampot Studio,
Bassendean, WA.

Does anyone know where to get acoustic doors seals and neoprene strip? I tried James Dolman but they do not do them. I also tried Custom Audio Design and they quoted £144 to fit out one door and frame. This seems a bit steep tp me but don't really have anything to compare.

I live in Somerset but anywhere in the country would be good.

Cheers, Bluey

Just going back to Martin Walker's post on open & closed foam.
I'm trying to build some acoustic treatment panels (to stop high & mid freq reflection) and bass traps and have got my hands on around 2 cubic metres of packing foam which I'm assuming is 'open'. Each panel is around 50cm square and about 4cm thick - is this ideal or should I be looking at branded stuff like auralex?

Also - is the expanding foam gap filler you get in cans any good for acoustic treatment? Been doing some DIY with it and it sprang to mind for filling bass traps.

No material is ideal when you have no real idea of its acoustic properties

However, try temporarily piling it all up in a corner of your room to see if it makes an audible difference - if it does then it's worth pursuing the idea.

I very much doubt that expanding foam filler will be of use acoustically, since it's generally used as a gap filler and to solve draught problems - this means it's definitely not open cell, and so it won't provide absorption.

Sorry!


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

One trick I've used a lot is to buy 'painters dust sheets' from DIY superstores: they're very big (10' square at least) and usually made of raw cotton. I used to find linen ones but haven't seen them for a while. The material is acoustically transparent and ideal for stretching over frames filled with rockwool etc. My current studio has some moveable absorbing/reflecting panels made from thick plywood; one side plain, the other covered with fibreglass and then these sheets stretched over and stapled. They do sometimes have seams though, where strips have been joined, but it's a lot easier than using a sewing machine.

Hi

First time here, bumping this thread, and strictly speaking this isn't music related but I would really appreciate some good advice.

I have a first floor flat and under my bedroom is someone's living room, through which I can hear all their conversations and TV noise. The bedroom is about 17m2, with a timber floor. There is already some kind of acoustic mineral wool in between the joists but frankly it 'aint working. I've considered a couple of options: 1) Seal the floorboard gaps with acoustic mastic, put down an acoustic membrane, then something like Quiet Floor, then the carpet. 2) Overboard the floor with some plywood, put some Green Glue on, then another layer of ply, then the carpet.

I don't think I can put down plasterboard or a floating floor as I don't think the floor/ceiling below will support it. Also, my budget is not unlimited, which is why I'm shying away from Quiet Floor and that kind of stuff. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm based in North Yorks and I'd also like to know of any good suppliers round here.

hi dear people I am in a panic rush so please excuse me if i might be asking in the right place but i hope i am ...

i am about to do up my studio now the walls of my room are made of 9 inch lime stone but still need to break the sound from next room and the dear neighbor so anyway i am using 30 mm rockwool with 2.5 inch wooden studs now i had the idea of fixing this 2cms rubber foam in between the stud and the wall so that sound absorbed by the plaster board on to the stud will not leek to the wall i already fixed one stud and it looks fine of coarse i have tighten it a bit so the size of the rubber foam and squashed a bit if you know what i mean .. now the BIG question is what guarantee do i have of how long the rubber foam lasts i am worried that it will disintegrate and of coarse the studs fixed to the wall will loosen up and the room starts to fall apart lol i hope i explained my self clearly and i really do hope that i can get some help the weekend is coming up and i really wish to get on with the work

thanks and i wish you all a great weekend
greetings from Malta

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www.myspace.com/aldolombardi

Edited by Comino (16/11/07 06:05 PM)

I'm about to build some absorption panels similar to ones built by Paul W in http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul06/articles/studiosos_0706.htm
Is there any functional difference between Auralex wedgies and Sonomatt acoustic panels (both 2" thick) for facing the rocksilk panels with?

Another question: should I treat the rocksilk face at the back with something to seal it, and if so, with what? I read that PVA glue diluted with water about 20 times and sprayed on works well, but would welcome suggestions/comments.

Picking up on the open / closed foam thing, and the the suggestion of sealing rockwool/rock silk, either by wrapping in polyester batting, or spraying with diluted PVA - won't this then decrease absorption by reflecting sound, and thus defeat the whole object?

Apprently not. I have not used the PVA technique but I know there are quite a few fans of it around here. The PVA is watered down a lot, and the idea is to give a light mist rather than saturate the Rockwool. Remember that Rockwool is bonded with some kind of glue solution during manufacturing anyhow - that's what makes it semi-rigid and stops it from collapsing. The additional PVA solution just gives a bit more help in preventing the fibres from escaping into the room.

With regard cloth, so long as it is breathable it should be fine - hold it up to your mouth and see if you can breathe (if you can't - don't hold it there for too long!).

I think if either of these do reflect HFs it would only be right at the top of the spectrum where most of us have buggered our hearing up enough not to notice anyhow!

I'm no expert on acoustics though, so if I have said anything wrong than plaese someone correct me.

Cheers

Max

Hi

I'm about to rent a room for my project studio which I will need to soundproof. My issue is I would like to be able to install in such a way that I can bring any material with me when I move on. I've come across this material'sound stopper panels' in studiospares which they claim can simply be fixed to the wall (screwed?):

http://studiospares.com/pd_465000_SOUND%20STOPPER%20ACOUSTIC%20PANEL%202m% 20x%2012m%20x%2014mm.htm

does anyone have experience with these, and indeed will I be better off using the traditional methods and not wasting my money?

many thanks!

Simon

www.freefarm.co.uk

Hi everybody,

this topic is very useful ! Thank you. This is my contribution: take a look at mixexperience.co.uk

Enjoy !

Just so people know, Rocksilk can be bought in densities from 33-200kg/m3. Here's a link to a Rocksilk data sheet from a company based in the UK:

http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/PDF/Datasheet%20-%20Rocksilk%20Universal% 20Slab%20Feb%2007%20RD86107.pdf

Hi guys.

Does anyone know of any Rockwool or Rocksil sellers in the Hampshire area? I'm looking for 1000x600x100 slabs of rwa45 or rs45. I spent an age looking and asking around diy stores with no luck. Local Travis Perkins branches told me they wouldn't be stocking it anymore and i'd have to go to the Oxford branch!!!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Kiz.

In a word, No.

But when you say DIY stores what exactly do you mean? I had a lot more luck in my area at Builder's Merchants, so if you havent tried them then best get the yellow pages out! Do you have a Jewson neaby: my local branch was able to get hold of it. How about something like Sheffield Insulation - or other insulation firms, etc.

God luck mate

Max

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http://www.myspace.com/mindkilleruk

Cheers buddy!

Yep, I meant builders merchants. Have to say, I found them very unhelpful in my area. The Sheffield Insulations company looks a good bet though.

Cheers again for the reply,

Kieran.

No problem mate.

Sheffield Insulation are pretty cheap as well from what I remember. You'll have to check they definitely do Rockwool. I actually got Rocksil from them - it's more or less the same thing but you can get it in 1200x600 which suited me much better than the 1000x600.

Remember to haggle though as the prices are pretty damn negotiable!

Max

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http://www.myspace.com/mindkilleruk

Just a follow up.

Found the best prices and service for Rockwool from Minster in Southampton.(www.minster-ins.co.uk)

They have branches all over the country and have good delivery prices.

Cheers for all the suggestions guys

Kieran.

I'll ask this question here so I don't start a new post.

What type of material would you use for covering diy bass trap panels?

I'm just about to have a go at making some but i'm not sure what sort of material would be most suitable for stretching over the front of the wooden frames. I'll be using rockwool slabs inside the frames.

I would preferably like the option of making them "blend" in with the room so colour would be a major factor I guess.

If anyone has any links to examples that would be just dandy

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easily pleased...

Quote Steve Hill:

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Roughly speaking, you would need to go up to 100kg/m3 to get to (a little over) 6 lbs/cu ft. I'm happy to be challenged on my maths here!

Otherwise, from the point of view of comparing US and UK brands, is it in fact fair to say RS60 is broadly equivalent to 705?

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GOOD MORNING ALL!!

Now that i've got your attention (hopefully), i,d like to finally dispel the US - UK rockwool conversion issue. Here's a link which i found after about two-weeks hunting.
Yep, an OFFICIAL UK ROCKWOOL PRODUCT SPEC SHEET. All the stats are there. Wahooo!

http://www.sheffieldinsulations.co.uk/Literature/Rigid_Semi_rigid_Flexible _slab.pdf

RWA45 45kg/m3
RW3 60kg/m3
RW5 100kg/m3
RW6 140kg/m3

Minor discrepancy tho, RW6 is stated as having a density of 140kg/m3 on the chart, but 120kg/m3 on other merchants' sites.

So, anyone gonna be settling for 45kg/m3? Thought not. Hope this helps. Thought so.


Absorptively Yours,

Andy

Thought i'd add what i've done
i converted half my garage (rougly 46 meters away from house)
seperate it in half with a wall using breezeblocks
2inch wood frames on all the walls packed with 6 inch rockwool from my local jewsons then plasterboard on top
seling was packed with doubled up 6 inch rockwool and plasterboard and i havent got round to getting a new door so i just gaffa taped thick foam on the door lol
all the walls are painted black and the door and small window at the top behind me act as quite a good bass trap
the room itself supprisingly very well soundproofed
and for internet access im not using wireless I dont like it I advise one of those belkin power adapters just run it through your electrical line fantastisc for games to =)

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""Electronica" was a phrase invented by a man in a office and when we find out who it is wer'e gonna slap him " Liam Howlett 1997

Hi.. I've been on a mission all day trying to find some barrier mat for cheep Most places I phoned up were too expensive for my really tight budget, but I came across "sound service oxford" :-

http://www.isolgomma.co.uk/SBM5.htm

I found their soundproof mat to be exactly the same as another supplier but much cheaper. (worked out a quarter of the price even though it was the same stuff )

Just thought I'd post it up incase anyone else was in the same boat as me. Worth phoning them up to enquire on prices neways

xx

I tried James Dolman neoprene supplier who quoted me £3.9 per metre for 20m of 6mm thick 10cm wide neoprene total £99.90 plus £21.90 delivery grand total £121.80.

Then tried Thames Valley Supplies Ltd
Churchill House, Unit 9
114 Windmill Road
Brentford, TW8 9NA
Tel From UK: 020 8560 3385 ,spoke to Kerry Way, total including delivery and VAT for the same spec 6mm neoprene rubber £48.53 Thats £1.61 per metre.This has got to be worth checking out.

For any folks in Ireland, Irish Insulations. Just spoke to them, very helpful and friendly. They stock both Rockwool and Rocksil (although I was only asking for RS60 and RW3). The rockwool was €33.35 per pack and the Rocksil was €25.68 per pack and their delivery charge was only €25 to Roscommon. Maybe I'm just easily impressed cause I drove an hour yesterday to collect insulation only to find out it wasn't what they assured me it was over the phone. Hmmm....

Hope this helps someone,
Cheers,
Mike

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"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.", Einstein.
www.eequalsmcstudios.com

This is a response to Costleys query re Fermacell.

Yes I have used it - not for studio construction but on a house renovation. It is heavier, harder to cut, much more expensive and harder to work with than standard plasterboard, but if I was doing a studio I would definitely use it even though I'm not sure I would use on a domestic renovation again.

It is heavier - therefore less sound transmission.

It is much more rigid and the fixing system involves gluing the sheets together along all edges so you end up with a single rigid membrane.

better fireproofing, better soundproofing, better structural integrity - plasterboard is just dust sandwiched between two pieces of paper.

I'm in the UK and used an internet supplier of Roskwool/Rocksilk called BMDinsulation.

http://www.bmdinsulation.com/

Very cheap. I have no connection other than as a customer. I have some leftover RS60 (12 sheets) which I'm selling on ebay - I won't post it here but will put it in the adverts section as per forum rules.

Hi,

I've been reading on here for a few days, I just have to say there's a few conflicting posts. So i'm a little confused.

Just to add to the thread, its a little information about sound proofing. It may help others like me. (purely information on basics of sound proofing) I'm not related/affliated with the company!!!!-unlike some)

http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/help.htm

Can i ask a basic question, I need to sound proof a 5m x5 x2 meter room mainly for voice recordings. What is my best option for a 'low' budget.
If necessary i'll start a new thread, i know i've more reading but at least if i read into background of the stuff i need to use. (hence the question)
thanks you.
Andrew

Hi there all

Well I’m also looking for one of the cheapest UK supplies to outfit a troubling issue between the flat below me.

I need to construct a sub flooring with (Rubber mat material several layers of would MDF work as soiled flat firm surface?

So where can I find a sappily because I need to get this solved?

Also would treatment on the walls reduce some sound transmission going though and coming though from adjacent flats below.

Cheers

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”She rests at last beneath the starry skies.”

Anyone know a neoprene supplier in Ireland?
Thanks
Justin

Hi
I realise I'm responding to an old post of yours, but I'm intrigued by your comments about using floating floors (or not) for soundproofing. I'm just getting nowhere trying to work out the best (most cost effective) way to soundproof my detached garage so the band can practice without annoying anyone. Given our typical set up of drums, bass guitar etc, do you think theres a particular method for the flooring I should be considering?
Cheers

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So - do you want me to play it too loud or too fast??!!!??
LRLLRLR OR RLRRLRL? - that is the question........

Bert - it might be better if you started a thread of your own on your garage studio rather than try to add your questions to other threads.

If your garage has a good concrete base then flooring is probably the least of your problems. The weakest points are likely to be the windows, doors and roof.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Ok thanks James. I'll start a new post and see how it goes. Cheers
Rob

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So - do you want me to play it too loud or too fast??!!!??
LRLLRLR OR RLRRLRL? - that is the question........