ok first i am using logic express 7.0.1 in os 10.4.7 on a dualcore powermac G5 @ 2 GHz...and a presonus firebox.

1) why is it that when i am recording, everything is right on time, but as soon a i stop then play it back, everything is off-time? i have to drag everything over to the left. i never used to have to do that.

2) why is it that whenever i go to change any setting like say, the I/O buffer, all audio playback is stuttered gibberish unless i restart logic?

3) why is it that when i press play, try to record, or do anything, the channel strip level of the selected track jumps up randomnly to +5.8? this happens while recording on its own, or during random times at playback.

4) why is it that when i am recording midi via a keystation 49e, as i am playing the notes change to things i didn't even come close to playing, and if i look at the midi region, sure enough it is all messed up?

5) why is it that when i press play, the cycle function will randomly turn on to various and random bars as if they were looped even though they were never looped?

i would really like to know because as it is, this setup is COMPLETELY unusable. and it isn't just me. i have a buddy who is a grad from an audio engineering program, and he says it is all messed up. same with other people who i have shown this too. any help would REALLY REALLY REALLY be appreciated. i am almost tot he point of selling my powermac and getting a PC built and running pro tools....but i know how much of a pain using windows would be so i won't be too hasty there.

Sounds to me like you've got random stuff like automation and MIDI key settings in your autoload and prefs.

Trash all the prefs, rebuild a new autoload from scratch, disconnect your MIDI gear, and see if your issues start to get under control.

If not, then time for a bit of troubleshooting. There's something really screwy going on with your system, because I can tell you Logic is rock solid here...

Edited by desmond (15/08/06 12:07 AM)

Quote Drahkkael:

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ok first i am using logic express 7.0.1 in os 10.4.7 on a dualcore powermac G5 @ 2 GHz...and a presonus firebox.

1) why is it that when i am recording, everything is right on time, but as soon a i stop then play it back, everything is off-time? i have to drag everything over to the left. i never used to have to do that.

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Because, because, because . . .

Because it seems your interface is presenting you with a record placement offset. You need to work out what the offset is exactly, in samples, and then enter this amount into Logic's Preferences/Audio/Drivers: Recording Delay.

Some interfaces seem to do this, and all DAWs provide you with a way of compensating for it.

In theory, once this is set correctly, problem solved.

This is however complicated by an issue with Apple's FireWire driver with some FireWire audio interfaces, that there will be a random offset every time you initialize the driver (i.e. start Logic) in all probability this will only be a few samples and largely unnoticeable - but it still shouldn't be there. It's not a Logic issue, it's a Mac OS X issue.

Quote Drahkkael]
2) why is it that whenever i go to change any setting like say, the I/O buffer, all audio playback is stuttered gibberish unless i restart logic?

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Well, if you make the buffer too small, you may overload the audio engine, and this may require a reboot of Logic. Logic 'tries' to re-initialize the audio engine without a reboot (of logic) but sometimes this fails.

Why are you changing the buffer size anyway? Set and forget . . .

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rahkkael]
3) why is it that when i press play, try to record, or do anything, the channel strip level of the selected track jumps up randomnly to +5.8? this happens while recording on its own, or during random times at playback.

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Because this is a feature - you can set two independent levels - one for Record and one for play (put Logic in pause to set these) the idea being that you may not wish to through-monitor when you drop into record. ProTools offers this feature too - I find it very useful. Maybe these level toggles have gotten saved in your Autoload? Or maybe now you know why it's happening, you can use it to your benefit?

But if it truly is 'random', is a connected MIDI device sending out spurious data which is being interpreted as Remote Control data?

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rahkkael]
4) why is it that when i am recording midi via a keystation 49e, as i am playing the notes change to things i didn't even come close to playing, and if i look at the midi region, sure enough it is all messed up?

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In what way do they change - position or pitch? Are you inadvertently Quatizing on Record (i.e. auto-quantizing) to a value that doesn't suit your playing?

Or have you stumbled upon a PDC issue for which there is a workaround. More info please.

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rahkkael]
5) why is it that when i press play, the cycle function will randomly turn on to various and random bars as if they were looped even though they were never looped?

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I'm wondering if you (or a previous Logic user on your Mac) ever set up a remote controller with Logic - which is now not present. Then MIDI notes can cause all sorts of things to happen in Logic as notes from a keyboard are interpretted as Remote Control events - even with the 'MIDI Remote' option switched off.

This happened to me recently when certain notes played on a keyboard would toggle Logic's windows at lightening speed. The solution was to remove t5he reference to the Remote Controller device (in my case, a Yamaha 01X.)

There could be other explanations - need a more accurate description as to exactly what is going on . . .

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rahkkael]
i would really like to know because as it is, this setup is COMPLETELY unusable. and it isn't just me. i have a buddy who is a grad from an audio engineering program, and he says it is all messed up. same with other people who i have shown this too. any help would REALLY REALLY REALLY be appreciated. i am almost tot he point of selling my powermac and getting a PC built and running pro tools....but i know how much of a pain using windows would be so i won't be too hasty there.

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Windows is a mighty pain.

I believe all of your issues are entirely due to settings - and most likely to 'pilot error'. It is easy to accidentally toggle on (or off)

I'm using Logic Pro 7.2 now, I've been recording hours of 24 track multitracks in 24-bit, editing, and not had a single crash since the 7.2 upgrade.

I switched from Cubase for various reasons, and at times still find Logic maddening. But it is generally stable and very capable - and there'sd always a method to the madness . . .

why?
because we all need to learn a program. How it functions, what it can do, what the options are.

"grad from an audio engineering program"
that doesn't mean anything
he probably only learned protools. Besides if he doesn't know anything like offset etc... he needs te re-read his class papers.

Logic isn't anything like "logical" protools. (it's better )

don't always think it is your mac doing the faults.
there are audio devices connected to it, there are system choices you make and there are users.

"4) why is it that when i am recording midi via a keystation 49e, as i am playing the notes change to things i didn't even come close to playing, and if i look at the midi region, sure enough it is all messed up?"

do you have quantize on ?

Check your autoload setup.

isn't there an express 7.1 version ? i think a 7.2 also.

5 minutes work and all your problems should be fixed
do you have a second audio drive ? is it Firewire ? on the same FW buss as the presonus ? etc... much more info people would like to know.

Have you considered using Cubase LE which came with your interface? Might be much easier to get to grips with initially.

first of all, you guys are kind of being dicks very subtly, if i am wrong then i apologize.

ok, a lot of what you guys just said i realize already. for example, about the level strip jumping up: THIS HAPPENS AS I AM RECORDING!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'll say that again AS I AM RECORDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is not some feature in logic that is a glitch. apple recently did a seminar at my work and they were even baffled.

reading back, i don't see anything in my original post that would persuade you guys to be arrogant asses. seriously think about that.

as for the time delay, why would that just randomly start to happen out of nowhere when nothing was changed? and why does it happen to seemingly random degrees? and why does it not happen every time?

and as for the buffer, even if i have it set to 512, then move it back to 1024 i still get martian gibberish until i restart. same thing if i go from 512 to 256. let's say i changed it from 512 to 256, then i have to restart to get it to play normally. it works fine. but if i go back to 512 i have to do the same thing all over again. sometimes twice.

and about using cubase le, or "learning my program" this isn't about that. i get around logic fine. i have used it a lot. this kind of thing does not happen on my buddie's setup. i have never changed any prefs or anything like that at all. so stop the attitude that "logic isn't for everyone" because you guys are so advanced and other earthly beings couldn't possibly learn to use this program because it really isn't that difficult. all you have to do is sit down with it like anything else. seriously, you attitudes are uncalled for. i was just looking for a bit of help. i thought maybe someone might know something about a driver issue or incompatability with my gear or something. i brought my machine into work where a guy does professional work for tv stations and also post production and his weapon of choice is logic. even he said it is messed up. so after having recieved the opinions of three people whom i consider to be very knowledgable, and apple themselves, i can see that your childish chat-forum supiriority complexes are just symptoms of your mouths (or your fingers) moving too quckly for your brains.

moderate that all you want SOS, i didn't do anything to deserve that response.

Drahkkael, I have looked through the above posts and can't find these superior attitudes that seem to have agrieved you. People have made some simple suggestions on the info you gave in your original post and asked you to provide more indepth info so they may be able to give more focused answers. If you really want any advice, I'd suggest you drop your attitude and maybe other forum members, with a better knowledge of Logic,OSX or your particular hardware, may be willing to help.
For the record I can't really think of anything other than trashing your preferences and starting from scratch again, and checking everything is up to date, drivers e.t.c. Failing that, trashing Logic and doing a clean reinstall. Hope you get sorted.

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"There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't"

Have you tried updating your version of logic to this:
Logic 7.1.1
It seems to be the most up to date version of 7.1 without going to 7.2.

Edited by damo.c (16/08/06 05:20 AM)

Suit yourself. You've had some good advice, take it or leave it.

If trashing preferences and a full re-install does not work, it might (however rare this might be) turn out that you have a faulty copy. Given that you say Apple are themselves baffled, they should be happy to replace it.

You are using a legal copy, aren't you?

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

Quote Drahkkael:

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first of all, you guys are kind of being dicks very subtly, if i am wrong then i apologize.

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I'm actually a little offended by that.

I think people did their best to provide plausible solutions for your problems. I certainly spent some time considering my response.

Clearly Logic and the Mac aren't fundamentally flawed as the problems you are having are uncommon or possibly unique.

There has to be something about your particular set-up or installation that is responsible for the problems. There was a lot of speculation, inevitably, because you did not give a fully detailed description of your setup - other hardware attached/installed on your Mac - other app's or plugs - what's going on in Logic's environment (perhaps MIDI is coming in from somewhere you're not expecting - spurioys controller data from a synth that's being translated, for example.)

Certainly, the advice to upgrade to Logic 7.1.1 (free, from Software Update) is good, and also trying Cubase - even if it's just to assist in a process of elimination - is also worthwhile.

There's something wrong, and only actively trying things - which may mean following advice - will get to the root of it. I understand your frustration, but just getting pissed off and blaming others who are genuinely trying to help won't fix anything . . .

Good luck.

I offer this suggestion hesitantly, at the risk of bing labelled a dick . . . .

Drahkkael, you might like to try (though possibly you already have) building yourself a completely new autoload song. I found there came a point in my Logic learning curve where simply adapting and building on the provided template songs was not sufficient.

The environment can be home to lots of wierd and wonderful things, many of which you probably don't need or use. If you delete every single object in every environment layer you may then build up your very own environment using only what you need and connect it all exactly how you want. You will then have the opportunity to test Logic's performance as each component is added. Another 'bonus' is that you will understand precisely how your Logic environment works - because you made it.

Part of this process would also include trawling through Logic's Preferences - manual in hand - and setting each one only when you have read exactly what it does. It can be a long-winded and boring job, but you gain a complete understanding of how your Logic works, making any problems that little bit easier to track down.

For a complete novice to LogicMIDI/audio/etc. this is probably not a path I would recommend going down, but you claim to be comfortable using Logic, so if this is not something you have already tried then it might be worth considering.

Tom

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My Little Project

well, I'm not offering any ideas, as by even thinking of one, then I must be an arrogant ass.

And who ARE you, anyway? Where do you live, your story? do you have any interests?

Is it not rather arrogant, putting nothing in your profile?

And is it not arrogant, your post? After people have been tying to help? I think so.

G

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PA stuff on FB

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Is it not rather arrogant, putting nothing in your profile?

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I don't know if I agree with that Guy, but it inspired me to add a few lines to my profile all the same. Having just passed the 300 posts mark I thought it was time to release a few more details about the mystery that is 'Mr Tom'

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My Little Project

Quote Guy Johnson:

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well, I'm not offering any ideas, as by even thinking of one, then I must be an arrogant ass. Is it not rather arrogant, putting nothing in your profile?
G

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Sheez, I never thought of that as being arrogant. I've never read anyone's profile.

I've been helped a lot by the SOS forums, and hopefully, I've helped some others. But the profile thing has never struck me as anything terribly important, nor particularly relevant to anything.

If profiles are your thing, more power to you! That's why the option is there. But it is an option, after all.

I kind of wish I hadn't bothered thinking about his issue and offering some good advice as to how best troubleshoot and fix his problems.

I understand people get frustrated from time to time, but if people expect other forum members to want to instantly fix their problems (certainly sounds like more than one issue going on in the OP's case) then displaying an attitude like that won't help you in your cause.

Offer good information in your original post, try out the advice given by other members, report back with findings about what worked and what didn't, then we can get more of a clue and hopefully home in and help you fix your issue.

As it is, you've just annoyed many of the people who were willing to try and help, made people resistant to helping you in the future, and you *still* have a system you are finding it difficult to work with.

So let's give this one more go. Did you actually try the things I and others suggested? What were the results?

Edited by desmond (16/08/06 01:55 PM)

the reason why some our not giving 100% solutions is , like myself, we don't have logic express. So i don't know how much of the stuff is the same for express.

but i wouldn't throw away any of the possible remarks.
Your problems could well be because of the presonus audio device , so you might want to check the presonus forums.. + the firewire drive connected or not isn't a bad remark, if i say it myself.

for example there is a presonus product on the duende not compatible list .. which would indicate to me the presonus stuff might have problems with other FW devices on it's buss also.

regarding gibberish, if i go back to the start or in the middle of the song, it always has gibberish when full plugin delay compensation is selected .. just a "bug" in logic that it doesn't clean it's buffer for PDC.... it doesn't happen when the song is played until the end or when something silent happens.

which reminds me of your latency problem ..........
* Are you recording with PDC selected on all ?
read this : http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n301025
that should explain your latency.

but i don't think 7.0.1 had good latency
so first try to update to 7.1.1 or whatever they have for free.

one more remark with BS and i think this topic won't find any solutions

forget that link, it seems to be logic pro only.

Drahkkael

You've asked questions about these problems a couple of times and don't seem to have any interest in listening to the responses. Most of your posts look like trolling.

In a recent thread, you told us that you're a professional session musician, so maybe you could ask one of the engineers you work with for advice about your set-up?

Well he seems to have gone away now, and in all honesty I do not find that a cause for regret!

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

Sorry, I wasn't quite accurtate... It's not arrogant putting NOTHING about yourself in a forum, but it is a bit naff, especially if the Forum name is not yours. Being anonymous, it is all too easy to be an eejit: Put your name to your opinions.

Guy

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PA stuff on FB

Quote Guy Johnson:

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Being anonymous, it is all too easy to be an eejit: Put your name to your opinions.

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I agree with that - it's all too easy to snipe from behind an alias on this Forum.

Anyway, I think this dude has realised that his particular brand of rude and aggressive posting isn't really welcome here and has disappeared. Anyone who titles a post in the purely reactionary manner he has and posts a long list of moans desperately seeking to blame anyone but himself is usually already off on the wrong foot.

.... or using cracked software!

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries !

Quote Mel David:

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Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries !

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Cool!

Quote Mel David:

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Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries !

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No! It was the other way round...





Ni!!


(Shhh!)

***GULP***

Emmm, im having exactly the same problems with that recording delay thing. I use a Presonus Firepod, i think there is some kind of common denominator here with presonus stuff!
The delay is only very slight but it is destroying my recordings!
I think i got the problem when i upgraded to tiger. When did you start to get this delay problem??
Im trying to work out what the heck is goin on here!!

yours, Chris

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but there is a recording delay feature in the driver set-up page.

Guy

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PA stuff on FB

Dude just worked it out!

Turn off "Software Monitoring", it worked for me and i was having the same problem!

I tried all this PDC and record offset junk and it didnt solve it! --- Software Monitoring button!

Chris!