Hi, I am a hardware user that is going software. I use a G4 i-book but will upgrade to either a 24" iMac or a G5 - budget £2000-2500. I have an M-Audio audiophile soundcard that I do not use (I also have a Carillon with a Soundscape card that I am selling but the soundscape will not work with Mac)

My biggest challenge is what host to use for soft synths. I will use Reason and Albeton Live for creating grooves and being 'creative' in building basic tracks. I then want to overdub using Arturia ARP2600, CS80 and Minimoog and maybe Reaktor. I will also need to sync my Roland X7 and V-Synth XT. Whilst I have vintage gear (Jupiter 4, TR808, CR78,) it is likely to be sampled into the V-Synth or triggered but there might be occasional audio. I have superficial experience in using Cubase SX but am happy to start over with anything that is as close to tape as you can get and as easy to start working with as Reason. I do not edit much and have a 'capture the performance approach' rather than a 'programming and editing approach'. I also mainly improvise/perform (in studio) rather than want to record and release music.

So why do I not just go and buy Logic then? Well I might but I have a friend, with a number of releases under his belt, who wants to collaborate and he uses ProTools. I do not know if this will work with what I want and the hardware is dedicated to Protools. If Protools is good for collaborating but not for my own stuff then can I have two systems on the same computer? I have read about people using Logic and Protools together for the same song but would like to learn about what this means. There are also a number of bundles of kit out there from Focusrite etc who have their own software but these never seem to be mentioned and yet they are being used.

Lastly I am drawn to the i-Mac for size of screen and that it is compact with no additional 'box' but the G5 might make more sense as my current G4 will not run Reaktor at all.

I would really appreciate any help that you can give. Many thanks.

What ever you buy make sure you have the Intel / universal Binary version if you go for the iMac.
The older G5s are a simialar speed to a new Intel Imac so there is only gain if you buy a later G5.

Be aware that Logic does not use the dual core G5s 2nd core. That is to say, a quad 2.5 with give the same performance as a dual 2.5 . Logic was never optimised for the quads as Apple were already woring on the Intel Macs by then.

In a G5, Pt only uses the 1st chip. In the Intel Macs, the dual core IS used, so there is a significant advantage to running Pt on an Intel over a dual G5.

You can run PPC apps on an Intel but there is a performance hit.
This means not everything is avaiable yet, (but will be soon).

If you buy ProTools, you will usually buy a package ie the hard and software come as one- eg Mbox. ( PT Le ).

You can use PT hardware with Cubase, Logic etc so it can act as a general interface, not just for PT. Buy anything else and you cannot run PT.

Live can run through Pt ( a special version even comes with PTLe ).

A lot of people run Logic and PT, usually to create in Logic and then mix in PT.

In my opinion, Logic gives better performance ( re number of plugins etc ) than PT, but there is something about the sound in Pt, it is very subjective, but I feel it is better.



If you are planning to work with someone else, best advice is to keep it simple. You should both run the same app, plugs and ideally monitors, so your projects are portable and sound similar or identical ( - or as near to, as is possible ).

Converting from PT to Logic is a real pain as Pt renders in realtime.
This means you have to solo and render each track - and waste a day doing it !!

I hope this helps - & -
Good luck !

Quote Scope:

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What ever you buy make sure you have the Intel / universal Binary version if you go for the iMac.
The older G5s are a simialar speed to a new Intel Imac so there is only gain if you buy a later G5.

Be aware that Logic does not use the dual core G5s 2nd core. That is to say, a quad 2.5 with give the same performance as a dual 2.5 . Logic was never optimised for the quads as Apple were already woring on the Intel Macs by then.

In a G5, Pt only uses the 1st chip. In the Intel Macs, the dual core IS used, so there is a significant advantage to running Pt on an Intel over a dual G5.

You can run PPC apps on an Intel but there is a performance hit.
This means not everything is avaiable yet, (but will be soon).

If you buy ProTools, you will usually buy a package ie the hard and software come as one- eg Mbox. ( PT Le ).

You can use PT hardware with Cubase, Logic etc so it can act as a general interface, not just for PT. Buy anything else and you cannot run PT.

Live can run through Pt ( a special version even comes with PTLe ).

A lot of people run Logic and PT, usually to create in Logic and then mix in PT.

In my opinion, Logic gives better performance ( re number of plugins etc ) than PT, but there is something about the sound in Pt, it is very subjective, but I feel it is better.



If you are planning to work with someone else, best advice is to keep it simple. You should both run the same app, plugs and ideally monitors, so your projects are portable and sound similar or identical ( - or as near to, as is possible ).

Converting from PT to Logic is a real pain as Pt renders in realtime.
This means you have to solo and render each track - and waste a day doing it !!

I hope this helps - & -
Good luck !

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I have to disagree on a couple of points here. Logics latest update makes use of all four cores in a Quad G5. You'll find some posts about it here around a month ago. Though I generally don't recommend buying technology that is on its way out, a Quad will be a fast machine for some time to come.

The debate about the sound of Pro Tools vs. Logic hinges a great deal on the audio interface you are using. A PT Le system is NOT the same as an PT HD system. The HD systems use higher quality processing throughout. A Logic system using Apogee Ensemble, RME Fireface 800 or a Metric Halo for audio interfacing is a very good quality set-up. This is where subjectivity takes over. It is not fair to compare these to a PT Le system, or a PT HD system to Logic with an M Audio Audiophile or something of that ilk.

I'll agree that keeping similar set-ups is key to maintaining a good working relationship. This is where Logic is very good. It is easy to bouce your tracks and save the project to share. My partner lives in Florida and I in Maryland. We are sharing files over ftp as we build our tracks. He works in Logic on his PC, I use it on my Macs, but we have similar configurations. Anything I have that he doesn't gets bounced to audio and goes to the ftp site. He does the same.

It works for us right now, but when Leopard comes out, he'll get a Mac Mini. Then we can collaborate in the new iChat. It sure is cheaper to buy that Mini than it would be to fly a couple of times!

Anyway, good luck. Whatever decisions you make, I hope you find a way to take your creativity to its end. I love Logic for this. Some people love Pro Tools. You'll find what works for you. Cheers!

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"It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up, but why should I give up when it all seems so stupid?"

Thanks for the replies. I realise that I said a G5 but what I meant was the new Mac Pro Quad core. Interesting that Albeton can run inside Protools and that Protools works with Logic. Maybe I can kill both stones with one bird, or something like that! ;-) Does Logic sync to ProTools like Reason to Cubase Rewire?

I have heard that Logic (as of three years ago) took a lot of time to get used to. How is tha latest version compared with the version from 3 years ago, is it a lot easier?

With the latest version of Logic running on an Intel Mac do I have to even think about computer config settings for buffer size etc or can I just get on and make music as I have no interest in learning about computers.

Does Ableton work seemlessly with Protools?

Can I use re-wire with Reason and Logic?

How do the four pieces of software all connect to each other if I want/need to use all at once? Do I have to export data from one to the other etc?

Many thanks

Dominic

To clarify:
Nomatter what you get, if it has more than one Core, Pro Tools will use them all.
I don´t know where the first replyer got his facts, but both my old Dual Prosessor G5 AND my current Dual Core G5 use both prosessors with ProTools 7.0 I think this goes for all new versions of DAW´s for OSX.

Also, ProTools works great with reason and live via Rewire, is better in my opinion for audio editing (and working with audio in general, including recorded audio from external synths) and has of course midi capabilities and so on. However, the sound you record in it self will not sound very different with ProTools or Logic (or Cubase), they all do the same thing, the real differences are in the GUI (wich should waigh heavey if you are going to use this software alot the next years, don´t teake this point lightly), the included (and available for purchase) plug-ins, and how you like the feel of the DAW.

If you go for Pro Tools Le, the included Digidesign Hardware will of course work fine with other hardware later, like Logic, DP, cubase and such, so if you find that you don´t like PT you can always change to another DAW later. But Pro Tools will ONLY run with digideisgn hrdware, so if you don´t get a protools system, you can´t open pt projects later.

Still, you can always export every file from your DAW and import into another, so working with different daw´s is rarely a poblem.

I use Garageband for tracking with heavy midi at home, and ProTools LE with an Mbox2 for more audio related tracking.
in the studio I use PT LE with a digi002R, and also Logic express 7, Ableton Live, and Reason (Adapted) 3. I get all of these various programs to work together with no problems whatsoever on a dualcore 2ghz G5 with 2.5gb of RAM. I also collaborate alot with a friend running Sonar 5 on Windows Xp: So collaorating across various platforms is no trouble nomatter what DAW you get , OR what kind of MAc you get.

I also have to mention: I was using Logic from version 5 in late 2001 until I went from Logic 6 to ProTools in 2003. It was a breeze to learn when you already had some knowledge of DAW`s. I think the new Logic is far better than the older versions, but I still think PT has a better GUI.

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Producer/Audio Engineer
www.rabalderstudio.com

I spent last night reading various Logoc and Cubase threads and also looking at the videos on Digidesign website. I cant see whay I would want Logic if I have protools. Protools does midi and audio, has a simple interface, and works with Ableton and Reason. I will start some other threads regarding specific questions. Many thanks

Hi Dominic

Just a word about my experience which may be relevant if you're thinking of running Logic with PTLE.

I am trying to run Cubase 4, Logic Pro 7 and PTLE on a MacPro quad core. I have the Apogee Ensemble, and PT on an MBox 2 Pro. There are currently installation issues on the Intel Mac which inhibit a successful PT installation alongside Logic on the same OS. Digidesign tell me a solution is still being sought.

Have also run into a host of probs with various apps on the Mactel - basically stuff is either not available, only in BETA or simply buggy - there are major issues right now for instance with Cubase 4 which are under discussion elsewhere on the forum and on the Steinberg forum.

As to the Apogee, my advice would again be to think carefully. There is an interesting thread on here somewhere comparing the Ensemble with the RME Fireface 800 - everything mentioned there a can concur with. Noise floor is surprisingly high, it's still on BETA drivers (months after its release!!!), it is still unable to run over 96kHz and is cranky if not solitary on the firewire buss - for instance I have been advised by one dealer that it may be unwise to run a Duende with it right now. He's offered me a Duende to try, but told me that he expects me to be bringing it back.

Over time many of these issues will of course be resolved - just that for now would advise strongly that you try before you buy...

Loopy