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Peter Conz Connelly
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Using Cracked Discontinued Software
      #410469 - 23/01/07 02:50 PM
I'd imagine it is just as illegal to use cracked, but discontinued, software as it is with current cracked software.

Would the developers be bothered though? If so, why?

Cheers,
Peter

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Gav
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410480 - 23/01/07 03:17 PM
Typically software is only discontinued for a few reasons:
  • Company philospophy (eg Logic after the Apple buyout)
  • Superseeded by another product or technology
  • Developer out of business
  • Income from sales/support insufficient


It's always illegal, and morally wrong, but there are moral shades of dark grey. At the end of the day, the developers want to be paid for thier effort. If they're not providing any suport (not even a website or forum with old questions), then they might not be so bothered, but they would rather you brought a newer product (if available). If they're no longer in business then it's showing why - if people who use the product paid for it, they might have been able to stay around.

The only clear way would be if the liscence agreement stated that it could be used with a crack or without registration under certain circumstances, and that's rare. In the commercial software world non-existant. However in the FOSS camp you don't need the crack in the first place. Companies who have superseeded a commercial product aren't likley to open it up for anybody to use, even if they offered a support contract.

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Henry-S
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410486 - 23/01/07 03:22 PM
The thing is still under copyright though so it will still be not legal.

Things like (just an example) Amiga roms, now pretty much all of the games you can get for an Amiga have no copyright now because, well you cant buy the games anymore because your talking about games that are like 15-20 years old, they just dont sell them anymore.

However the actual "Thing" that makes the Amiga work (like the OS), cant remeber the name for it, but thats still selling online for people to obviously run games on.

Basically until the manufacturers say its "freeware" then it will still need to have a valid license to be "legal". Even if you cant buy it in the shops anymore.

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We Fell From The Sky


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SecretSam
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410503 - 23/01/07 03:50 PM
Credit to Propellerhead and their generous now-free-for-download ReBirth.

I did once see a crack of a VST synth called Junglist that I though sounded good and was ridiculously simple. It used very little cpu and IIRC was only about 2Mb for the app. It was no longer sold, though. I emailed the developers saying could I pay them a licence fee and use a crack. They said no - use Hydra, which is similar but more modern. I did in the end, but it did seem a bit dumb to me to turn down money for quite literally nothing. Hydra is of course a bit more complicated than Junglist ... being newer and all. Some people think more functions = better software.

BTW - I run a software company in real life, and we do have one downloadable product that is no doubt crackable. I would be delighted to take someone's money for an out-of-date version that they didn't want us to support.

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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: SecretSam]
      #410508 - 23/01/07 04:04 PM
Thanks for the response guys.

I used to have Steinberg LM-4 mkII at my previuos company and would like to use it again, primarily to load up older projects. It's no longer available and Steinberg don't supply anything similar.

I did see a used copy, however, selling for £99. I might consider this, but if I let it slip and never see another copy, I'd be stuffed really.

Cheers,
Peter


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inocybe



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Henry-S]
      #410529 - 23/01/07 04:34 PM
Quote:

now pretty much all of the games you can get for an Amiga have no copyright now because




while you can't buy them any more, the copyright is still valid. Thus, it's illegal to copy them. Most Amiga game developers (and many other legacy platforms) close an eye on the whole thing and don't actively pursue their copyright. Basically when you want to play the original frogger, you're out of luck unless you can find the original setup.. heck, even the flash clones of the old classic games available on the web are copyright violations.

A lot of music has the same issue (not being available on the market, yet protected by copyright, so you are not allowed to download a copy either.), or books, movies, ... basically anything that's not older then 50 years.

Old software falls into the same category, and it's illegal unless otherwise stated by the copyright holders. sometimes code get released or the product gets distributed for free (opcode, propellorheads) when a manufacturer goes out of business or support for a piece of software stops, but, sadly this seldom happens and it's IMHO one of the biggest problems with software today, as it places users sometimes in a position where there is simple NO legal way of handling.

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Didn't your mother ever tell you not to eat nuclear warheads?


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Scope



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: inocybe]
      #410563 - 23/01/07 05:33 PM
Why use cracks ?
Old software has such little value, you can often buy it for pennies !

Cracks are not only illeagal but plain daft as they mess up your computer making it very unstable.
Better to search the ads for old titles and buy the real thing.



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Dave B



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410575 - 23/01/07 05:45 PM
Check out eBay!!

I found that I quite liked the idea of Waldorf's Assualt (analogue drum synth) and found a copy for thirty quid. So I'm (mostly) legal.

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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Dave B]
      #410584 - 23/01/07 05:54 PM
Quote Dave B:

Check out eBay!!

I found that I quite liked the idea of Waldorf's Assualt (analogue drum synth) and found a copy for thirty quid. So I'm (mostly) legal.




That's where I found a used copy of LM-4 mkII for £99 (mentioned above)

Cheers,
Peter


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Henry-S
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410588 - 23/01/07 06:02 PM
ino, yes they still have a copyright but its pretty much useless.

Nobody who made an Amiga game could actually seek "compensation" from a site offering its rom for download. I personally think most developers and (even know 1) who thinks that its incredible people "still want to play a game I helped make" and personally think it flattering for people to still see their work being appreciated.

But it is crazy when software companies know their products are still used and dont offer them at a reduced cost instead
choose to "discontinue it". Makes no sense to me

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We Fell From The Sky


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desmond



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Dave B]
      #410643 - 23/01/07 08:11 PM
Quote Dave B:

I found that I quite liked the idea of Waldorf's Assualt (analogue drum synth)




You probably mean Waldorf's "Attack"...


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fxfreakoid



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410647 - 23/01/07 08:29 PM
Didn't Amigas use a slightly more advanced version of basic,Similar to the bios on a pc?Are they really 15-20 years old?Man I'm getting past it,I've still got an acorn electron knocking around somewhere.

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inocybe



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Henry-S]
      #410794 - 24/01/07 08:33 AM
Quote:

But it is crazy when software companies know their products are still used and dont offer them at a reduced cost instead
choose to "discontinue it". Makes no sense to me




well, software needs to maintained (bug fixes, etc..), but even when development totally stops there needs to be some kind of customer support. If people pay for it, they do want some support for it, which means support engineers, registration, etc . Probably not worth all the money it costs for many software companies.

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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: inocybe]
      #410801 - 24/01/07 08:57 AM
Quote inocybe:

Quote:

But it is crazy when software companies know their products are still used and dont offer them at a reduced cost instead
choose to "discontinue it". Makes no sense to me




well, software needs to maintained (bug fixes, etc..), but even when development totally stops there needs to be some kind of customer support. If people pay for it, they do want some support for it, which means support engineers, registration, etc . Probably not worth all the money it costs for many software companies.




I think he was referring to selling it in its final state, maybe even just as a download (so no need to finance packaging, etc), but with the understanding it's sold as is and no further support will be granted.

Cheers,
Peter

--------------------
Composer, Songwriter, Producer, Sound Designer
www.peterconnelly.com


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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: desmond]
      #410802 - 24/01/07 08:59 AM
Quote desmond:

Quote Dave B:

I found that I quite liked the idea of Waldorf's Assualt (analogue drum synth)




You probably mean Waldorf's "Attack"...




I thought that's what he meant. Had me baffled for a second!

You can still get Attack, as part of a package with PPG, Pole and Attack

Cheers,
Peter


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Tachikoma...[taipei]



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410814 - 24/01/07 09:41 AM
I'm just going to begin by saying I disagree with the fact that using cracked software is "morally wrong," since there are all kinds of systems of morality in this world.

With that said, the Amiga roms are an interesting example. However, consider Nintendo. The approval of the employee who made the software and the company that sold it are very different. Roms of Nintendo games are downloaded, played and sold just like those of Amiga games. However, Nintendo is still milking those games for all they're worth --- gameboy advance, nintendo DS, gamecube all have versions of Original Nintendo and Super Nintendo games, which are usually sold to customers, or included as "easter eggs" in retail games (see Animal Crossing for Gamecube). So is it 'wrong' to download Nintendo games, but ok to download Amiga games?

I'm not drawing any conclusions here. Just wanna raise questions. I think cracked software's great, personally, because I don't believe in the concept of property. But that's just me.

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ZukanModerator
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Tachikoma...[taipei]]
      #410818 - 24/01/07 09:46 AM
Quote Tachikoma...[taipei]:

I think cracked software's great, personally, because I don't believe in the concept of property. But that's just me.




That's sad to read, and of course, pretty ludicrous.

I wonder how you would feel if it was YOUR property being abused.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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Rob C



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Henry-S]
      #410836 - 24/01/07 10:11 AM
Quote Henry-S:

The thing is still under copyright though so it will still be not legal.

...

Basically until the manufacturers say its "freeware" then it will still need to have a valid license to be "legal". Even if you cant buy it in the shops anymore.




This is true. However, there will very likely be a change in the law to enable people to use so-called "dead-media". This would be expressed as an exception in copyright law. However, it wouldn't go so far as to say the code was public domain... the exception (if it is enacted) would be limited to enabling the use of otherwise redundant resources.

Quote Henry-S:

Nobody who made an Amiga game could actually seek "compensation" from a site offering its rom for download.




You'd be surprised what IP lurketh in old stuff. I don't know for sure, but I'd bet there is Newton IP in the iPhone. The story of current technology is as much about patent-pooling and IP history as it is about the developers.

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IvanSC



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: fxfreakoid]
      #410839 - 24/01/07 10:14 AM
Quote fxfreakoid:

Didn't Amigas use a slightly more advanced version of basic,Similar to the bios on a pc?Are they really 15-20 years old?Man I'm getting past it,I've still got an acorn electron knocking around somewhere.




!!!!!
Okay you have stirred up a crazy wild eyed Amiga fanatic!
The OS is still in current development, even though Commodore nosedived in 1991-ish.
Amazingly, there is a large number of users still relying on the A1200/4000 series to sequence and record music.
I use it because the Amiga never ever crashes.
FWIW the OS is still ahead of Windoze in many key areas and always will be. But then there are so many other OS`s that eclipse Windoze, it makes you realise that Bill Gates`s marketing department are the real reason for Microsoft`s success, certainly not his coders, who are still saddled with backwards compatibility issues stemming all the way back to the inadeqaucies of the original MSDos.

Whew! That feels better.

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410845 - 24/01/07 10:20 AM
You go to Amiga conventions don't you Ivan...... .huh huh?

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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Peter Conz Connelly
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: IvanSC]
      #410855 - 24/01/07 10:35 AM
Quote IvanSC:

Quote fxfreakoid:

Didn't Amigas use a slightly more advanced version of basic,Similar to the bios on a pc?Are they really 15-20 years old?Man I'm getting past it,I've still got an acorn electron knocking around somewhere.




!!!!!
Okay you have stirred up a crazy wild eyed Amiga fanatic!
The OS is still in current development, even though Commodore nosedived in 1991-ish.
Amazingly, there is a large number of users still relying on the A1200/4000 series to sequence and record music.
I use it because the Amiga never ever crashes.
FWIW the OS is still ahead of Windoze in many key areas and always will be. But then there are so many other OS`s that eclipse Windoze, it makes you realise that Bill Gates`s marketing department are the real reason for Microsoft`s success, certainly not his coders, who are still saddled with backwards compatibility issues stemming all the way back to the inadeqaucies of the original MSDos.

Whew! That feels better.




I still used Music-X on my A500 up until 1997

I booted it up last year and loaded up sequences, some from 1989, and 99% of them still loaded

P


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tomafd



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #410873 - 24/01/07 10:58 AM
Hasn't been booted for a couple of years now, but last time I checked my Atari it was when re-booting a 1990 tune for a last and final remix- and everything came up perfect, including the samples running on an old Akai S1100. I was dumbfounded ! (Not least because I'd actually found all the data, buried in the attic...)

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TTN



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: SecretSam]
      #410965 - 24/01/07 01:19 PM
Quote SecretSam:


I did once see a crack of a VST synth called Junglist that I though sounded good and was ridiculously simple. It used very little cpu and IIRC was only about 2Mb for the app. It was no longer sold, though. I emailed the developers saying could I pay them a licence fee and use a crack. They said no - use Hydra, which is similar but more modern. I did in the end, but it did seem a bit dumb to me to turn down money for quite literally nothing.




thing is with software is that it costs no money to make a copy and sell it anyway, and them selling you hydra instead of junglist just makes them more money, as it's probably built on the same engine so less man hours on programming, similar GUI, and i suspect you bought it via a download, so no packaging. so they probably made a lot more out of refusing to sell you junglist!


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Sounds-and-images
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Zukan]
      #410968 - 24/01/07 01:25 PM
Quote Zukan:

Quote Tachikoma...[taipei]:

I think cracked software's great, personally, because I don't believe in the concept of property. But that's just me.




That's sad to read, and of course, pretty ludicrous.

I wonder how you would feel if it was YOUR property being abused.




I think all forums should take stronger stance against people who openly steal other peoples work.
How about they are blocked from the forum.

I would certainly take action against any theft of my work.


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Happy Birthday Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Sounds-and-images]
      #410984 - 24/01/07 01:47 PM
Quote Oldhippy:

I would certainly take action against any theft of my work.




And rightly so.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Steve Hill
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Tachikoma...[taipei]]
      #411017 - 24/01/07 02:23 PM
Quote Tachikoma...[taipei]:

I'm just going to begin by saying I disagree with the fact that using cracked software is "morally wrong," since there are all kinds of systems of morality in this world. I think cracked software's great, personally, because I don't believe in the concept of property. But that's just me.




I think you're living in the wrong part of China if you still think there's anyone on the planet who believes that sort of proto-Marxist gibberish. No doubt you never seek payment for your own music and are happy that the world makes such use as it wishes of it without any payment to you. That's fine by me too.

What is not fine is your breach of the rules you signed up to when joining this forum:

"Requests for links to, or support for , pirated/cracked software are expressly forbidden. Offending posts are liable to be removed and persistent offenders risk being banned from the forums. SOS reserves the right to report the IP address of persistent offenders to copyright owners."

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SecretSam
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #411024 - 24/01/07 02:30 PM
With respect, Mr Moderator, I think you may have misread the rules.

"Requests for links to, or support for , pirated/cracked software are expressly forbidden," seems to mean: you can't ask for support (ie advice and fault-finding) about your cracked software.

I don't think the rules are intended to prevent someone expressing support for an unpopular idea. Even CNN have not gone quite that far.

--------------------
Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.


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tex
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: SecretSam]
      #411063 - 24/01/07 03:28 PM
Quote SecretSam:

With respect, Mr Moderator, I think you may have misread the rules.

"Requests for links to, or support for , pirated/cracked software are expressly forbidden," seems to mean: you can't ask for support (ie advice and fault-finding) about your cracked software.

I don't think the rules are intended to prevent someone expressing support for an unpopular idea. Even CNN have not gone quite that far.




Ah, but forums don't actually have to support free speech or democracy. They're not that kind of animal. Different to CNN.
Now, that person that doesn't believe in property. Can I have yours? And the rights to your songs?

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geefunk



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #411073 - 24/01/07 03:45 PM
It actually seems this needs to be debated properly (and endlessly) rather than people throwing their weight around simply because it's an issue they don't agree on - I don't think issuing threats is very fair, seeing as the chap was only expressing an opinion - I would hate to see this forum become only for those who agree with the majority.

I think the statement about property and ownership was naive, but then I also think it's naive not to ackowledge its exsistence, and to simply refuse to mention such software, for fear of being attacked.

failure to communicate is where it all starts to go horribly wrong.

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Steve Hill
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: SecretSam]
      #411178 - 24/01/07 06:06 PM
Quote SecretSam:

With respect, Mr Moderator, I think you may have misread the rules.

"Requests for links to, or support for , pirated/cracked software are expressly forbidden," seems to mean: you can't ask for support (ie advice and fault-finding) about your cracked software.




The rules which the moderators collectively redrafted only weeks ago mean what the moderators say they mean! OK, there's an ambiguity. But we have a long and distinguished position of being opposed to cracked software (and illegal use of music copyright etc).

Theft is theft. We choose not to debate whether it might be a good thing in some peoples' opinions. We choose not to tolerate people who advocate it, just as we cheerily wave goodbye on a permanent, no-appeals-will-be-tolerated basis to anyone who wilfully disregards that position after a fair warning.

You would expect us to do the same with overtly racist, sexist or homophobic posts. Why should advocating crime be treated differently?

This is not, in our view, an issue for honest debate in the name of free speech.

This thread does raise an interesting question about rights to software which is no longer made or supported (which is why the thread is still here). It is not intended to become a free-for-all about let's all use cracked software all the time.

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TTN



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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: geefunk]
      #411250 - 24/01/07 08:24 PM
Quote geefunk:

It actually seems this needs to be debated properly (and endlessly) rather than people throwing their weight around simply because it's an issue they don't agree on - I don't think issuing threats is very fair, seeing as the chap was only expressing an opinion - I would hate to see this forum become only for those who agree with the majority.

I think the statement about property and ownership was naive, but then I also think it's naive not to ackowledge its exsistence, and to simply refuse to mention such software, for fear of being attacked.

failure to communicate is where it all starts to go horribly wrong.




seconded, and eloquently put.

tachikoma's post was naive and OT, possibly against forum rules, but in fairness to him he was rebuked and didn't reply after that. just stick with the topic


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Feefer
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Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #411347 - 24/01/07 11:41 PM
Quote Steve Hill:

The rules which the moderators collectively redrafted only weeks ago mean what the moderators say they mean! OK, there's an ambiguity.




Unless you guys just plan on coming off as autocrats, that may not be such a good thing: if you can't respect your OWN standards or rules, then why should anyone else respect (much less trust the expertise of) SOS?

FWIW, you wouldn't have been inspired to "borrow" that philosophy from the current U.S. President, would you?


Quote Steve Hill:

But we have a long and distinguished position of being opposed to cracked software (and illegal use of music copyright etc).




A position I happen to agree with, BTW.

Just remember, the door swings both ways: there's alot of "illegal use of music copyright" AKA copyfraud, going on, where people claim copyright over material they have no right to claim. For example, many synth programmers (AKA voicers) or others claim copyright over data that is fundamentally NOT 'copyright protectable', and they are demanding ownership of that which is not "ownable" (at least, not by anyone who didn't write the code for the synth). Nonsense.

Similarly, you have organizations (like RIAA/MPAA) acting as if Congress never granted U.S. citizens certain rights (e.g. Right of First Sale) IN EXCHANGE for granting IP rights to creators of works. Ask the RIAA if you're allowed to sell a recording you purchased, and see how honest THEY are.

So it's all about a balance between rights of the consumer and producer, and some people tend to forget about the balance. So copyright fraud/infringement works BOTH ways: it's not all about consumers ripping off the creators, but sometimes shrewd and unethical types screwing consumers out of what they don't even 'own'.


Quote Steve Hill:

Theft is theft.




Yes, it is. And copyright infringement is copyright infringement, a separate tort from theft. I'm so relieved you DIDN'T say "copyright infringement is theft", as that's nonsense (while an analogous concept, they don't equate). For example, try prosecuting a property theft as a copyright infringement case, and see how far that goes in the judicial system....


Quote Steve Hill:

We choose not to debate whether it might be a good thing in some peoples' opinions. We choose not to tolerate people who advocate it, just as we cheerily wave goodbye on a permanent, no-appeals-will-be-tolerated basis to anyone who wilfully disregards that position after a fair warning. You would expect us to do the same with overtly racist, sexist or homophobic posts. Why should advocating crime be treated differently?




Uh, who's advocating crime? Sorry, just don't see it.

There's one good reason to "tolerate" such discussions: there's gray areas in law, including IP law (e.g. abandonware, right of First Sale, etc, etc).

If people can't discuss what IS accepted practices, them how does anyone know where the boundaries are? Are we supposed to simply accept what someone tells us as the gospel truth? Didn't we learn anything from that whole "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction" thing? My gosh: might some so-called 'experts' have hidden agendas?


Quote Steve Hill:

This thread does raise an interesting question about rights to software which is no longer made or supported (which is why the thread is still here). It is not intended to become a free-for-all about let's all use cracked software all the time.




I agree. HOWEVER, I don't see anything close to that happening here (unless the mods have pre-cognitive capabilities, ALA 'Minority Report'). So maybe a bit premature with the whip-cracking.

@@@

As an aside, I remember a thread a few months ago about how the 'Rhodes' trademark holder was protecting his IP, insisting other companies stop using the name in their unlicensed products. Many people here insisted the name had perhaps been abandoned, and therefore could be used without regard for the IP owner.

It's interesting to note how the Rhodes Piano WAS reintroduced at WNAMM 2007:

http://www.rhodespiano.com/

Just goes to show: you never know when IP is still protected, and it's safer to not assume that it's somehow in the public domain and available for your use without permission.

Chris

--------------------
1.5GHz Al 17" Powerbook G4 (2.0GB RAM, Hitachi 60GB 7,200 rpm drive), running Logic Pro 7 under OSX 10.4.5


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El Sid



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Posts: 276
Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Feefer]
      #411419 - 25/01/07 07:42 AM
This debate is quite interesting and I would like to add a few words if I may.

At first though, I should say that I in no way condone the use of cracked software and it does annoy me quite a bit when I see someone using a cracked version of something that I paid a lot of hard earned cash for (and I have paid quite a bit of money for software over the years!).
And exactly for that reason I want to echo Feefer's post above.
It is easy to pick on a few small time (non)consumers as thieves and forget the larger picture: the Software manufacturers, developers and companies.

I cant count any more the amount of problems over the years I have had with software. Software with does not meet the manufacturers own published specification, and is buggy or unstable. This is such a commonplace problem that putting it in writing seems banal. And that is my point: theft, where does one draw the line?

The hours or days I (and almost everyone I know in this business) have invested in getting (non-hardware problem) software issues resolved or find work-arounds, in effect working as a beta tester, are unpaid.

Is the consumers (or the professionals) time not worth anything?

Would you buy a software which said on the package "you might needs x days/weeks to get this working for your specific needs"?

Or would you buy a car if you knew that the breaks failed when you tried to tune in the radio, even if you knew there was a "work-around"?

My point is that there has to be debate on this issue, and Soundonsound should participate.
They owe it to their readers (and not the Software companies).

The current Cubase discussion is an example of a manufacturer seeming to let down its customers.
(I am a Nuendo user with similar issues: Non working specifications).

And why is it that moderators largely stay silent on these topics?

Has there ever been an article documenting and commenting the wayward ways of software manufacturers?

Siddho


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SecretSam
active member


Joined: 29/10/02
Posts: 1566
Loc: Officially, I do not exist.
Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Steve Hill]
      #411421 - 25/01/07 07:55 AM
Warning: Tangentially off topic.

It seems as through the CEOs of both Microsoft and Propellerhead Software would be banned from the Forum, due to their equivocal stance on Piracy:

Bill Gates' views on priacy in China were widely reported. (EG at http://www.msversus.org/microsoft-piracy.html):

"Then in the 90's it became well known that the majority of China's software was illegally copied. Bill Gates said, "Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software... Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade." (Grice, Corey and Junnarkar, Sandeep. "Gates, Buffett a bit bearish." C|Net News.com 2 July 1998)"

A similar point of view was made by Ernst Nathorst-Boos of Propellerhead Software IN THE PAGES OF Sound on Sound itself:

"No one really knows what the software issue is all about", adds Ernst. "I can illustrate with a story. I have three children; the oldest is 16. When Napster arrived, he started downloading songs like crazy. And he got to find out about so many new bands that he never heard about, which also meant that he started buying CDs like a lunatic. Then Napster disappeared, and he stopped buying as many records as he used to, because where is his source now? There's the radio, but he's not interested in the music that's played in the radio. And MTV? No! I'm saying that I can understand what the record industry is saying, but I can also show examples of the opposite. I think it's the same thing with software piracy. It is a major problem for us, but no one actually knows the mechanisms behind it. No one knows how many of these people bought the program who wouldn't actually have been your customers otherwise."

BTW - I don't have any cracked software myself. This is mostly because I have a good income but little time, so I am happy to buy what I need, and also want to be able to throw my system at the music store to sort out when it goes wrong.

--------------------
Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.


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Happy Birthday Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 21916
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #411456 - 25/01/07 09:53 AM
Just to clarify, I think the rules are clear on this topic.

Debating the pros and cons of cracked software on the SOS forums isn't a problem at all. How else can we encourage people to take what we consider to be the morally and legally correct position on the subject: that using cracked software is generally indefensible?

What the rules specifically do not allow -- and we will take a very strict line on this -- is discussions involving the supply of or technical support for cracked software.

Hope that helps to explain our position a little more clearly.

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Steve Hill
member


Joined: 07/01/03
Posts: 13141
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #411460 - 25/01/07 09:59 AM
Others may disagree but I don't think we are overreacting (or I am, if you prefer). Nobody's been banned, we've just said we don't tolerate software piracy, or advocating it, and we're trying to keep the thread on track. Frankly I don't care what Bill Gates thinks.

You will not be aware that the "moderator action" in this thread was prompted by other forum members sending PMs asking us to do something. So someone is going to be displeased whatever we do. Tough.

Chris: the UK industry body is called the Federation Against Software Theft and, under the UK Theft Act 1968, counterfeiting would qualify as an offence carrying a maximum sentence of 14 years in prison. Things may well be different in the US. However, you will understand that from the persepctive of a UK website run by a reasonably respectable journal, it would not suit Sound on Sound to have its website get a reputation for condoning crime without intervening occasionally to say "enough".

(Sorry Hugh - crossed post)

--------------------
Dynamite with a laser beam...


Edited by Steve Hill (25/01/07 09:59 AM)


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SecretSam
active member


Joined: 29/10/02
Posts: 1566
Loc: Officially, I do not exist.
Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #411461 - 25/01/07 09:59 AM
Thanks, Hugh.

Perfectly clear, and perfectly reasonable.

Cheers
Sam

--------------------
Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.


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table for two
active member


Joined: 24/03/02
Posts: 5901
Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #411496 - 25/01/07 11:16 AM
Yup, Crack use should mos def be outside the forum

Though I sometimes wonder what the mods get up to in the mod lounge ...


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ZukanModerator
Zukan


Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 9324
Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: Peter Conz Connelly]
      #411507 - 25/01/07 11:38 AM


--------------------
Samplecraze
Stretch That Note


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10772
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Using Cracked Discontinued Software new [Re: El Sid]
      #411520 - 25/01/07 12:06 PM
Quote Siddho:



The current Cubase discussion is an example of a manufacturer seeming to let down its customers.
(I am a Nuendo user with similar issues: Non working specifications).

And why is it that moderators largely stay silent on these topics?






The moderators are mainly long established forum members with wide experience of music and recording technology - just like many others on the forum. It just so happens that, as far as I know, not many of them are Cubase users so they have very little to add to the debate. I learned from my experience with Steinberg many years ago and would never rely on them to produce fully functional working software for the PC - but that's just my personal opinion.

Cheers

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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