...So after yet another unsuccessful rehearsal with a guy who had supposedly been playing drums for 5 years but couldn`t keep time, didn`t understand what playing the snare on the 2 and 4 was, and couldn`t recover from the rubbish drum fill that didn`t fit into any song in 4/4, back to the beat he couldn`t keep, I have had enough.

I need to get a drum machine so my band can rehearse until I can find someone who may be able to keep time and doesn`t smell of cheese.

I need something that has at least 4 assignable outs, will import MIDI files so i don`t have spend hours programming the thing, would preferably allow sample import (although not essential as cost is a factor) and will allow /respond to tempo changes.

I don`t want it to cost the earth and it has to be portable.
It doesn`t have to be new, or particulary cutting edge but it must be reliable.

any suggestions team?

ta.

Whats the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?




You only have to punch the song into a drum machine once.




I started a band with a few people, and the drummer said he hadn't played for about three years so he would be a bit rusty. He procedded to play stuff so funky and tight our jaws hit the floor!

Sorry, that was no help at all was it?

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He who feels punctured must have been a bubble - Lao Tsu.

Check out the Boss DR770. I had its predecessor, which was very good, and the 770 gets rave reviews. Think it might only have 3 outs, however, but worth checking. Think its about £170 or something.

You were lucky with your real drummer though, he sounds like a cut above the average unless you forgot to mention "bangs all the cymbals so often and so hard that nobody could hear a thing" - we had that in addition

Just because someone has been playing for 5 years doesn't mean they're any good.....Boss DR 660 has 4 outs,and midi ports.

I know a guy in Bath who can drum. He teaches percussion professionally, can sight read scores, does tuned percussion as well, knows how to play pp as well as ff, and plays keys and fiddle to boot. Oh and he's also done the entire music direction of a few stage musicals. I don't know if he's looking for work at the moment (but who isn't?). Send me a PM with some details of the type of stuff you do if you are interested... and saying whether there is any real prospect of my guy making any money!

You know this makes more sense than spending your life programming a drum machine....

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

what you need to do is buy a drum machine and one of those electric dog collars used for training dogs. use the drum machine for a clikc track and use the electric dog collar to train your drummer.

or do a marilyn manson and just chuck your weighted bass mic stand at his head.

i've personally had much trouble with drummer (but i'm sure you must have guessed that) i've met about 7 drummers that have been playing for 5 year yet they all seamed to have sold the drum kits for weed. and as a result cant keep time because there to busy getting wrecked.

so i got myself some drum samples and i programme them myself and there a damn sight tighter then any drummer and if you have a good sequencer they you can even pull back or push the beat let alone the wicked groves you can get

matt

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My Bands ArdorNocti and Moiraamoth

Hey guys thanks.

Mr baker, no not really, but slightly amusing (much like the last drummer!)

Garry S, thanks I'll check it out.

Spike, quite, although I'm not sure I'd have the nerve to turn up and be quite that shite.

Steve, thats great, but i'll be honest there is no chance of him getting paid.
Really I just want someone to turn up and be able to play drums at practice and the odd gig,

Oh dear i'm being quite naiive there aren`t I....

what about this bossSP606?

oh clicky i forgot you, its a good idea but I have cubase in my studio at home and thats fine for doing recordings but Its impractical for taking to gigs and wotnot.

You see why I want a drum machine that will import MIDI files with tempo changes now eh....?

jaminem...

Good drummers are hard to find but they are out there and there is nothing like a good drummer... It just sounds like your last chap was nothing like a good drummer...

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Google less; read more!

you're so right.
a good drummer is my first choice, the drum machine's done begrugingly, just to keep us playing...

yo jaminem

if you have cubase already have you thought about just recording the drums to CD / MD / MC or what not. it isn't too good for programming i grant you but it'll get the job done. it might even be better than a drum machine live. (you've heard one or two jokes about drummers but roadies are even worse, there just like drummers but with half the amount of brain cells and a great ability to break / turn off / trip over / kick anything that is essential to a gig) you should be able to leave the recording with the FOH engineer and he'll hit the play button for you. he'll even be able to follow the set list too now how amazing it that

how much you you have to spend on a drum machine? cause if your money could stretch you could get one of those akai MPC1000 for about £600 if you shop about a bit. i'm sure it has more than 4 outs. plus it samples (ideal for sampling the drummers kit before you tell him where to go) plus it has 16 trigger pads idea for trying out a beat, USB and flash media for PC program swaps. and when you find your ideal drummer you might even get some drum triggers and one of those boxes that turns them into midi out and your drummer can use it to trigger the built in sounds on it. loads of bands are doing it now including mr manson (i'm quite a fan of his can you tell?)

if your budget won't stretch for a new MPC check out the second hand ones it's would be a wise investment. and you can use the CD / MD / MC idea to keep playing until you've saved up

good luck

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My Bands ArdorNocti and Moiraamoth

cheers clikc that is exactly what we have been doing.

As you say its no good for jams or anything like that and i do have a serious problem playing a gig to a CD, I'd feel like britney spears miming!

I was hoping that there was another (cheaper) way to go than the MPC route but alas it seems not.

I guess its back to the search....

I do know of a good drummer in Bristol, but he is (a) in his mid/late thirties, (b) retired from the music scene and (c) occasionally quite intense...

He could hit a pretty good beat a few years ago... Then there is the added complication that we don't seem to get on these days...

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Google less; read more!

yo

yeah i can understand the whole britney thing but you'll be surprized with the amouth of "live" bands that sync to a MD, and aslong as it keeps you ticking over as it were. you might even tell the crowd a few drummer jokes and you might get a half decent drummer come up and speak to you after.

as with most musical things you get what you pay for and the expenchtion of adding it's sounds into a drum kit is an amazing idea (somthing i'll be looking into when i get my band out and about). and with a decent drum machine you have sothing to fall back on / threaten your drummer with.

and pretty much anything drum machine realated under that seams to be aimed at the home DJ / consumer hobbiest. plus with 2 midi ins and 4 midi outs you can use it to play other sounds. for example i plan on using one to change the patches on my Boss GT-6 and play my Porhecy synth when i'm busy with my guitar. it would be a worth while investment.

anyway.. good luck with your scearch

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My Bands ArdorNocti and Moiraamoth

Why not get a second hand Yamaha QY 70.
Program say a flat 4 in a bar into song one,a funk in to song two etc.All you have to do then is hit play and set the tempo,and it will keep playing till you hit stop,
Vic

Pick a loop that fits the feel in some way.

Loop it up, make sure everyone plays in time.

Get the drummer to play over it.

Pick his best 4/8/16 bars whatever.

Loop and edit.

Job done.

Why fret?

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https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/james-bond-swagga-ski-rize/id574380007

The CD idea is much better than getting a drum machine IMO. If you've got a sampler in cubase then you can make extremely realistic backing from using real samples.

I know it can be very frustrating when you're in need of a good drummer to work with but you've got to realise that you're up against other bands in situations like yours! Can you entice a good drummer to join your band? Is your playing solid time wise and do you play with a great sound etc. After all a band is as good as its weakest link and what if that's you!

The drummer that you parted ways with is an individual responsible to himself and to you as a band mate. He happend to be a drummer. How many bass players are out there who play to quiet to hide their crap playing or guitarists who try to stun their listeners and bandmates with shear amp volume despite no being that good. Keep dancing on those pedals boys!

I personally would look on this as an opportunity to find the right drummer. By playing to a well programmed backing you will certainly have no excuses as a band for speeding up or dragging. I'd play to the CD and use a paid session guy for your gigs until you get Mr. or Missus Drum-Genius rather than using a machine. Hopefully you will be in good shape as a band to get the services of a good drummer.

Regards,
bassdude

Plenty of musicians are sloppy and they mess-up all the time. Lots of bands house bassists and guitarists who are all over the place and get away with it.

The only difference for a drummer is that everyone hears his mistakes...

hi

luckily I know quite a few ok to good drummers. not of much help I know.

but

a) drummers like being paid (or at least gigging a lot for beers and women)

b) just practising would kill any muso

c) you wouldn't believe how much fun can be playing with a good natured sloppy drummer after having a tour with totally pro but bossy&arrogant one.

k

well, I am kinda in the same predicament - I think my native american name should be "The One Who Fires Drummers" but again we got a bozo that for 3 months couldn't learn the band's songs so he had to go, naturally.
I am back to my Alesis SR16. What I don't like on it is that you can't import drum sounds (no sampling) and can't do any odd rhytms unless you can calculate them into straight rhytms. Also tempo changes don't happen at all.
Somehow I live with that and actually it has come quite handy at least in rehearsals. I've also used it to trigger some other midi compatible devices (Korg Triton drums for example).

I bought a second hand Zoom drum machine (the smallest one). Just a simple beat-box. I used it live for an acoustic gig for a few songs (very simple sounds), using a footswitch to stop/start it. It worked really well.
For recording, remember that you don't really need individual OUTs as long as your recording machine has MIDI clock which all digital ones have.
You can program the pattern and run the song x number of times and send each drum to individual tracks (stating the obvious).
I sometimes use preset patterns on my keyboard for some songs. If used carefully and by selecting decent sounds (reducing the excessive snare reverbs etc...) and using the fills very carefully it can sound good.
Combined with the Zoom, which is set very bland (almost boxy) with compression, and delayed a few milliseconds, I can get very real sounding drum parts.
I always preach this to my mates and anyone I record, but out of time and bum notes and your recording is a non-starter, regardless of other content.

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Jack of all trades, master of some.

I also have an Alesis SR16, and it works quite well for what it does. I combine it with a couple of foot switches to trigger the fills and endings. Very basic, but gets the job done in practice. I have also used it when I have played live with my acoustic without a band.

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James
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" ~Napoleon Bonaparte~

Quote:

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Just because someone has been playing for 5 years doesn't mean they're any good

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Good point. One of the problems I think some inexperienced drummers have (and in reality this could easily include someone who's played for 5 years) is that they've learned in isolation and never therefore been forced to keep time with anything. So turnig a four beat bar into one with four and a half beats during a fill isn't something they've even realised they're doing. Problem is that it's not unlikely that as they begin working in a band situation, other players, who are quite possibly of a similar standard, might not have the experience to realise what's going on either. So the net result is that everyone is happy and it's not until they get among more experienced musicians that the trouble starts. Same thing applies to keeping a constant speed!

I guess it's a bit like the guitarist who does a rip roaring solo in a completely different key to the song. The number of times I've tried to point out this particular issue to young axers (some of whom have played for a lot longer than five years), only to be looked at as though I've dropped in from Mars, is quite worrying.

Quote RegressiveRock:

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I do know of a good drummer in Bristol, but he is (a) in his mid/late thirties, (b) retired from the music scene and (c) occasionally quite intense...

He could hit a pretty good beat a few years ago... Then there is the added complication that we don't seem to get on these days...

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Reg, I wish that you hadn`t included the last bit.
send me his details...?

Cheers.

Thanks everyone else, I guess the question I wanted answered is no then, aside from an MPC the only option is loads of drum machine programming or playing to a CD, neither of which i want to do.
Also the realisation that yes I forget that I have been playing for about 15 years (and using my studio for about 10!) and consequently must have acheived a certain level of competency, so expect that of a drummer.
Our last drummer was 17 and kicked butt, shame he was so unreliable then really....

Edited by jaminem (29/10/04 04:10 PM)

Quote itinerant baker:

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Whats the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?

You only have to punch the song into a drum machine once.

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i thought the answer was about 5 bars at the end of the song...

LOL, am i the only drummer to laugh at drummer jokes?
I've been drumming for nearly 25years now (self-taught) and i also own a boss dr660, when i am recording i usually program "what i am actually going to play" into the boss and use that as a klik, i cant follow the simple 4/4 rimshot, i reckon it gives me more "feel" as i am laying it down. All drummers are different, i find the ones who "say" they are good are generally not. I knew one once who was a drummers drummer. spent a fortune on a kit and had lots of expensive lessons, but, couldnt keep time, he was never adventurous or "able to jam" he stuck too much too the book. He was very jealous of me, so much he tried to attack me one night when both our bands were on the same bill

-dave